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mesaSteeler
01-01-2009, 01:44 AM
Arians discounts running game theory
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_605306.html?source=rss&feed=9#
By Scott Brown
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, January 1, 2009

The Steelers have become so associated with a dominant running game, it has created the perception that they cannot succeed offensively without one.

That is not reality, said offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, who pointed to the Super Bowl run the Steelers made during the 2005 season as evidence. In winning three games to get to the Super Bowl, Arians said, the Steelers used the pass to set up the run.

"It's different in Pittsburgh because people believe if you run it 30 times (a game) you automatically win, but when I was here we didn't win any Super Bowls that way," Arians said Wednesday. "I know how we won them, and No. 7 (quarterback Ben Roethlisberger) won them for us offensively."

Roethlisberger, who led the Steelers to their last Super Bowl title, is recovering from a concussion he sustained in a 31-0 win over the Browns on Sunday. He is expected to be OK, and a running game that has been suspect this season might have to carry more of the load as the Steelers prepare for an AFC divisional playoff game on Jan. 11.

Arians has been criticized for moving the Steelers away from what is considered their roots: a power running game. And the second-guessing of Arians only intensified this season, as the Steelers finished 23rd in the NFL in rushing (105.6 yards per game).

"It's always easy when you're an armchair quarterback," left tackle Max Starks said. "Fans are going to look at it differently, and the media is always going to look at it differently. But if we have confidence in (the running game), that's all that really matters."

Arians said the running game is merely different from the one to which Steelers fans had become accustomed. Personnel has partly dictated that, he said, as the Steelers haven't had a big, bruising back such as Jerome Bettis since he retired following the 2005 season.

The Steelers have run more out of a one-back set since Arians started calling the plays, and the use of the traditional fullback as well as the I-formation has been de-emphasized.

A different approach

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said the Steelers used the pass to set up the run in the three playoff games they won in 2006 to get to the Super Bowl. Here is a breakdown of the yards the Steelers gained in those games.

Opponent Result Passing yards Rushing yards
Bengals W, 31-17 202 144
Colts W, 21-18 183 112
Broncos W, 34-17 268 90

"We do something a little different without him," Arians said of Bettis, "but we do have Willie (Parker), we do have Mewelde (Moore) so we have good backs and we've run the ball satisfactorily, but not great."

The Steelers rushed for 176 yards Sunday against the Browns, and they ran Parker out of the I-formation more than usual. Parker rushed for 116 yards on 23 carries and scored on a 34-yard run.

Arians, however, dismissed the notion that the I-formation is some sort of elixir for the running game and said the Steelers will use it in the playoffs as circumstances dictate.

"Willie's touchdown run (against the Browns) was the same run he had in the Super Bowl," Arians said, "one back, the exact same play, so no, I don't put any stock in that (stuff)."

Parker said recently that he prefers to run behind a fullback and questioned the approach the Steelers had taken in regard to running the ball. His criticism drew a pointed rebuttal from coach Mike Tomlin. Parker has since refused to get drawn into any discussions about the Steelers' philosophy of running the ball.

"I'm not getting into that, if we have a fullback or not," Parker said. "If we run it, I'm happy."

Scott Brown can be reached at sbrown@tribweb.com or 412-481-5432.

Steelman16
01-01-2009, 01:49 AM
This time though, I think we gotta switch it.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think Ben is gonna be as flaming hot as he was in those playoff games.

Run to set up the run. :chuckle:

HometownGal
01-01-2009, 07:00 AM
"It's always easy when you're an armchair quarterback," left tackle Max Starks said. "Fans are going to look at it differently, and the media is always going to look at it differently.

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

I would like to see more of a rushing attack in the playoffs, but as Arians so correctly states - only "as circumstances dictate".

Galax Steeler
01-01-2009, 07:05 AM
I don't think Arians play calling is going to be much different in the playoffs he will use what got us here so I don't think we will run the ball anymore.

GBMelBlount
01-01-2009, 07:12 AM
I REALLY hope they have been saving some offensive "surprises" for the playoffs....

missedgehead
01-01-2009, 09:17 AM
I don't care at this point. Just win

lilyoder6
01-01-2009, 11:19 AM
i think that BA had some confidence booster in the browns game and hoepfully that carries over..

i think the first play of the game we should go deep w/ tone or nate...

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-01-2009, 11:22 AM
Earlier in the season Parker says he wants a FB and gets scolded by Tomlin for going public. Now he says "I'm not getting into that, if we have a FB or not." You can tell Willie wants one, but doesnt want to take any more heat.

Sometimes circumstances dictate that you must abandon the run and throw the ball, like when you get behind. The Steelers rarely get too far behind with their defense.

I would rather see the Steelers look to Dictate the Circumstances with the running game, than have the Circumstances Dictate that they cant use the running game.

stillers4me
01-01-2009, 11:25 AM
I would rather see the Steelers look to Dictate the Circumstances with the running game, than have the Circumstances Dictate that they cant use the running game.

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

Control the ball.......manage the clock.......win the game. :drink:

mesaSteeler
01-01-2009, 11:42 AM
Earlier in the season Parker says he wants a FB and gets scolded by Tomlin for going public. Now he says "I'm not getting into that, if we have a FB or not." You can tell Willie wants one, but doesnt want to take any more heat.

Sometimes circumstances dictate that you must abandon the run and throw the ball, like when you get behind. The Steelers rarely get too far behind with their defense.

I would rather see the Steelers look to Dictate the Circumstances with the running game, than have the Circumstances Dictate that they cant use the running game.

Well said. However I do find it interesting that BA feels the need to come out in the press and defend his approach. He must be feeling some heat. I find it hard to believe that BA did this with out Tomlin's permission.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-01-2009, 11:46 AM
What were the circumstances in the 2002 AFC wildcard game when Arians had a 24-7 lead in the 3rd quarter over the Steelers????

They dictated that he keep throwing the football because he had nobody to lead block for James Jackson, William Green or Jameel White and it resulted in one of the greatest playoff game comebacks by the Steelers. The difference now is that Arians has the #1 defense on the other side helping him and should look to control the ball, clock and win the game as Stillers4me says. But it appears as if he still wants to prove he can do it his way.

TackleMeBen
01-01-2009, 12:12 PM
is there anyway possible we can keep this man away from a microphone.

all i know is he better call some plays that win us the game.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
01-01-2009, 12:28 PM
is there anyway possible we can keep this man away from a microphone.

all i know is he better call some plays that win us the game.

If he calls plays like during the Browns game, we will be fine. If he call plays like the rest of the season, we might be in trouble.

TackleMeBen
01-01-2009, 01:07 PM
If he calls plays like during the Browns game, we will be fine. If he call plays like the rest of the season, we might be in trouble.
and that is what i am afraid of... wonder if coach tomlin knows how to call plays???:chuckle::chuckle: he cant do any worse than arians.lol

HometownGal
01-01-2009, 01:10 PM
all i know is he better call some plays that win us the game.

Executing the plays called is what will win us the game.

Please dear God - not another Arians bashing thread. :banging::banging:

Steelers & I
01-01-2009, 01:20 PM
Let's just hope for the best out of Arians for the next 3 games. "I HOPE" that we see more play calling like we did versus the Browns, that will allow for our average offensive line TO EXECUTE WITHIN THEIR MEANS.

Just 3 more games, 3 more games and hopefully, as all signs are beginning to indicate, Arians A$$ is gone with the wind.:tt02::tt02::tt02:

TackleMeBen
01-01-2009, 01:20 PM
Executing the plays called is what will win us the game.

maybe we need to dumb down the plays that are being called so that the players can execute them during the game. i dont care what is done as long as we win.:thumbsup:

Steelers & I
01-01-2009, 01:33 PM
What were the circumstances in the 2002 AFC wildcard game when Arians had a 24-7 lead in the 3rd quarter over the Steelers????

They dictated that he keep throwing the football because he had nobody to lead block for James Jackson, William Green or Jameel White and it resulted in one of the greatest playoff game comebacks by the Steelers. The difference now is that Arians has the #1 defense on the other side helping him and should look to control the ball, clock and win the game as Stillers4me says. But it appears as if he still wants to prove he can do it his way.


I like that observation. I've heard the man called everything from stubborn to #*%@ but your billing of the man probably says it best. :thumbsup:

TackleMeBen
01-01-2009, 01:40 PM
But it appears as if he still wants to prove he can do it his way.
that way may not get us far in the playoffs.

OneForTheToe
01-01-2009, 02:20 PM
Well said. However I do find it interesting that BA feels the need to come out in the press and defend his approach. He must be feeling some heat. I find it hard to believe that BA did this with out Tomlin's permission.


I think it is just evidence that coaches and players, contrary to what they say, do read the papers.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-01-2009, 02:44 PM
I like that observation. I've heard the man called everything from stubborn to #*%@ but your billing of the man probably says it best. :thumbsup:

I dont hate the guy, nor do I think he is a bad coach. Just as June Jones put up some amazing numbers in college before bringing the run and shoot to the NFL where it eventually failed......I think Arians has only been an OC or head coach at Temple(where he had a dynamic offense with Paul Palmer) and Cleveland(where he had a dynamic offense, with short yardage problems as well.) where he put up big numbers but failed to win any significant titles.

I think he believes in his system, has seen it work in the NFL, but like an alcoholic refusing to believe he has a problem, he won't admitt to the weaknesses of it and seek help.

lilyoder6
01-01-2009, 02:59 PM
good post there gonzo

HometownGal
01-01-2009, 03:31 PM
Just 3 more games, 3 more games and hopefully, as all signs are beginning to indicate, Arians A$$ is gone with the wind.:tt02::tt02::tt02:

I will make a friendly wager with you that no matter how far we go or don't go in the playoffs, Arians retains his position as our OC next season. You on? :drink:

sackmaster56
01-01-2009, 06:33 PM
:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

Control the ball.......manage the clock.......win the game. :drink:

Nicely put.... don't forget no flags We do this and nobody beats us!!

Steelers & I
01-01-2009, 10:32 PM
I will make a friendly wager with you that no matter how far we go or don't go in the playoffs, Arians retains his position as our OC next season. You on? :drink:

Alright, you're on. The loser has to make a $25.00 donation to Steelers Fever Forums. Deal? :drink:

HometownGal
01-02-2009, 07:39 AM
Alright, you're on. The loser has to make a $25.00 donation to Steelers Fever Forums. Deal? :drink:

Deal! :drink:

revefsreleets
01-02-2009, 09:57 AM
Sucker bet. Ben and Tomlin are very happy with Arians.

vasteeler
01-02-2009, 10:23 AM
yeah I agree but either way SF wins:drink:

lilyoder6
01-02-2009, 10:49 AM
i would say that BA stays with the team next yr unless he epically fails in the playoffs..... but 25 dollars for the site is good

The Duke
01-02-2009, 10:59 AM
"It's always easy when you're an armchair quarterback," left tackle Max Starks said. "Fans are going to look at it differently, and the media is always going to look at it differently.

Max is smarter than I thought. This guys know what's going on, I trust them more than some whining fan or a football "expert" for that matter

The running game will be better in the playoffs. Maybe not 100 yards by willie, but we'll get some consistency. This team lives or dies by big ben

LVSteelersfan
01-02-2009, 11:30 AM
We have to keep winning DESPITE Arians and DESPITE Ben turning the ball over and DESPITE Willie getting -2 to 2 yards on first down and DESPITE the receivers dropping passes. HMMMM, Really sounds like the defense is going to have to carry us. Lets just hope that Ben keeps the turnovers to a minimum so we don't have to keep coming from behind all the time.

steelreserve
01-02-2009, 11:38 AM
"It's always easy when you're an armchair quarterback," left tackle Max Starks said. "Fans are going to look at it differently, and the media is always going to look at it differently. But if we have confidence in (the running game), that's all that really matters."


Max is smarter than I thought. This guys know what's going on, I trust them more than some whining fan or a football "expert" for that matter

Meh. That's one of the most tired arguments in the history of sports: "You don't know what you're talking about because you're not actually on the team."

Well, OK, if everyone went by that logic, then you're essentially saying that anyone from outside doesn't have the right to have an opinion or criticize what's going on. Can you imagine how that would go over in business, or politics? Fat chance.

This just sounds like a guy using that go-to argument because he's tired of the line being criticized. Maybe I'll listen to you when you learn how to block, Max.

The running game will be better in the playoffs. Maybe not 100 yards by willie, but we'll get some consistency. This team lives or dies by big ben

That's more like what I would hope for.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-02-2009, 11:38 AM
Sucker bet. Ben and Tomlin are very happy with Arians.

No way.....its all a smokescreen. They actually despise him.

Thomas Jones said an unnamed Jets teamate described Brett Favre as distant towards teamates, including Alan Faneca who told a group of Utica, NY auto dealers that Ben really hates Arians. :chuckle: 6-degrees of separation baby! :thumbsup:

Steelers & I
01-02-2009, 12:02 PM
Sucker bet. Ben and Tomlin are very happy with Arians.


You're more than welcome to jump on board. I'll take your bet as well. DO YOU WANT A PIECE OF THE ACTION? Name the amount.

Dino 6 Rings
01-02-2009, 12:24 PM
When this playoff game starts, depending on how our execution is going in the early moments on passing plays, I can see Tomlin, who already lost a home playoff game, turning to Arians and politely telling him..."Bruce...Run the Fcking ball"

Its Tomlin's team. We all need to recognize that its up to Coach Tomlin as to whether or not we run the ball or become too pass happy.

TackleMeBen
01-02-2009, 12:27 PM
Sucker bet. Ben and Tomlin are very happy with Arians.
until Arians is gone, then we all know that ben will start throwing those sucker punches about how he didnt know how to run the offensive :sofunny::sofunny:

43Hitman
01-02-2009, 01:33 PM
You're more than welcome to jump on board. I'll take your bet as well. DO YOU WANT A PIECE OF THE ACTION? Name the amount.


I'm in for $20 that Ariens is here next season. Money gets donated to the site though.

Deal/ :drink:

lilyoder6
01-02-2009, 02:02 PM
i know being an OC is hard... but 1 thing i don't like sometimes is on 1st down we'll have like a 5 yrd run and then on 2nd down we run almost the exact same play and get nothing.. i don't care if u run it but switch up the formation and where the ball is supposed to go

GodofGridiron
01-02-2009, 02:03 PM
Bruce Arians is an a$$ parcel, and im sure in time we'll come to understand that.

I pray he's learned from the quarterback keeper on 3rd and 7. Dammit, that still haunts me about as much as Neil O' Donnell's clutch pass to Dallas in XXX.

HometownGal
01-02-2009, 03:36 PM
You're more than welcome to jump on board. I'll take your bet as well. DO YOU WANT A PIECE OF THE ACTION? Name the amount.

We're up to $45.00 between 43Hitman and myself. You'd better start saving those pennies! :wink02::flap:

Hey revs - you in too?

Pi Kapp Steeler
01-02-2009, 04:48 PM
I don't care at this point. Just win

Couldnt say it better myself. As for right now just win!! worry about this offensive problems in the offseason, no time to expirment in the playoffs.

Steelers & I
01-03-2009, 01:01 AM
I'm in for $20 that Ariens is here next season. Money gets donated to the site though.

Deal/ :drink:

Deal :drink:

Steelers & I
01-03-2009, 01:02 AM
We're up to $45.00 between 43Hitman and myself. You'd better start saving those pennies! :wink02::flap:

Hey revs - you in too?

Lol, yeah, I have a little bit saved up. :flap:

markymarc
01-03-2009, 07:43 PM
And I discount the theory that Arians is a good OC.

Preacher
01-03-2009, 07:48 PM
And I discount the theory that Arians is a good OC.

What is interesting... is that NONE of the teams today have been able to run...

Is that because they are horrible run teams?

Nope. It is because good defenses STOP the run... and you don't make the playoffs if you are not a good defense.

HometownGal
01-03-2009, 07:50 PM
And I discount the theory that Arians is a good OC.

Well - I discount the theory that he is the anti-Steeler and the major reason for the decline of the Steelers O this season.

It's really very simple.

Decline in productivity of running game (poor run blocking) + 70% of Ben's sacks and hurries out of the pocket (poor pass protection) =

Shitty OL.

(Yes - I hold our OL primarily responsible for the problems the O is having this season.)

MasterOfPuppets
01-03-2009, 08:17 PM
What is interesting... is that NONE of the teams today have been able to run...

Is that because they are horrible run teams?

Nope. It is because good defenses STOP the run... and you don't make the playoffs if you are not a good defense.not neccessarily preach
defense rank.......................rushing D RANK
1 Pittsburgh Steelers...........2
2 Baltimore Ravens............3
3 Philadelphia Eagles........4
5 New York Giants...............9
6 Minnesota Vikings............1
7 Tennessee Titans............6
11 Indianapolis Colts........24
15 Miami Dolphins..............10
18 Carolina Panthers.........20
19 Arizona Cardinals....... ..16
24 Atlanta Falcons..............25
25 San Diego Chargers.....11

xbroughneck
01-03-2009, 09:48 PM
I most humbly and respectfully disagree with Mr. Arians.

Let's hope that he simply doesn't wish to show his hand prior to the game next week. I'm of the opinion that his offensive style of football isn't one that I like. But I'm willing to cut him slack until we lose. If we rush for less than 100 yards and lose I will wish Mr. Arians to lose his job.

If we win...who cares how we win.


I don't like his plays or his playcalling though....but now I'm sounding like a broken record.

Preacher
01-03-2009, 10:04 PM
not neccessarily preach
defense rank.......................rushing D RANK
1 Pittsburgh Steelers...........2
2 Baltimore Ravens............3
3 Philadelphia Eagles........4
5 New York Giants...............9
6 Minnesota Vikings............1
7 Tennessee Titans............6
11 Indianapolis Colts........24
15 Miami Dolphins..............10
18 Carolina Panthers.........20
19 Arizona Cardinals....... ..16
24 Atlanta Falcons..............25
25 San Diego Chargers.....11

Look at that list again.

Numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, and 11 are ALL in the playoffs. I think the numbers beg to differ with your assessment.

Only 3 of the top 11 run d teams are not in it.

Furthermore, The Falcons (25) are out already. the Colts look like they are about to go out... and that is the bottom two.

EDIT: And notice, it was a bad run defense that lost the game for them on the last play.

MasterOfPuppets
01-03-2009, 10:49 PM
Look at that list again.

Numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, and 11 are ALL in the playoffs. I think the numbers beg to differ with your assessment.

Only 3 of the top 11 run d teams are not in it.

Furthermore, The Falcons (25) are out already. the Colts look like they are about to go out... and that is the bottom two.

EDIT: And notice, it was a bad run defense that lost the game for them on the last play.Nope. It is because good defenses STOP the run... and you don't make the playoffs if you are not a good defense. preacher i was only challenging your statement that a great D is necessary to make the playoffs.....i proved it wrong...:chuckle:

I think the numbers beg to differ with your assessment.
i think YOUR assement is flawed

Furthermore, The Falcons (25) are out already. the Colts look like they are about to go out... and that is the bottom two.the falcons and thier second in the league rusher ,lost to the team that was 32 AGAINST the run.......:rofl: ....there goes that theory

Preacher
01-03-2009, 10:53 PM
preacher i was only challenging your statement that a great D is necessary to make the playoffs.....i proved it...:chuckle:


i think YOUR assement is flawed

the falcons lost to the team that was 32 AGAINST the run.......:rofl: ....there goes that theory

Actually, they lost to the cards, which, according to your stats, were 16th against the run.


My point is that when you are in the playoffs, you have to be able to throw the ball as well or BETTER than you have to be able to run the ball. The vast majority of teams over the last 10 years or more have been balanced or pass first teams.

MasterOfPuppets
01-03-2009, 11:00 PM
Actually, they lost to the cards, which, according to your stats, were 16th against the run.


My point is that when you are in the playoffs, you have to be able to throw the ball as well or BETTER than you have to be able to run the ball. The vast majority of teams over the last 10 years or more have been balanced or pass first teams.your right...the cards were 32 in offensive rushing....and the colts were 31....so i guess a strong running game isn't necessary either. AT least as far as getting there....as you said...winning is a whole different matter.

moedap
01-03-2009, 11:03 PM
The truth of the offensive probably lies in all parties hands OL, QB, RB, TE, WR, and OL. But Big Ben has 100 million invested in him. If he doesnt like Arians as someone on here rumored then 1 and done in the playoffs because of poor offense performance means his job. The OL already knows they can be fired.

Preacher
01-03-2009, 11:04 PM
your right...the cards were 32 in offensive rushing....and the colts were 31....so i guess a strong running game isn't necessary either. AT least as far as getting there....as you said...winning is a whole different matter.

True, but again, teams that win the SB, over the last 10 or 15 years, have been an even or pass first team both in the reg. season AND in the playoffs.

markymarc
01-04-2009, 11:50 AM
What is interesting... is that NONE of the teams today have been able to run...

Is that because they are horrible run teams?

Nope. It is because good defenses STOP the run... and you don't make the playoffs if you are not a good defense.

Yes you need a very good defense to win in the playoffs. There is no question about that, but offenses still need to make plays to put points on the board. And both the Cardinals and Bolts did that. For the record though, these are the rushing stats for the winning teams yesterday:

Colts - 167
Cardinals - 86

And don't forget that the Cardinals are not a big rushing team to begin with, but still put up 86 yards on the Falcons.

markymarc
01-04-2009, 11:54 AM
Well - I discount the theory that he is the anti-Steeler and the major reason for the decline of the Steelers O this season.

It's really very simple.

Decline in productivity of running game (poor run blocking) + 70% of Ben's sacks and hurries out of the pocket (poor pass protection) =

Shitty OL.

(Yes - I hold our OL primarily responsible for the problems the O is having this season.)

I can respect your opinion and totally agree that the OL is ONE reason for our offensive struggles this season. The OL is not the only reason we did not do good offensively. It was a collective effort and that includes Arians. Arians is not the solution because he is part of the problem as well. And for the record, if you know the OL is horrible wouldn't it be your responsibility as the OC to call plays to not expose your OL weakness.

tony hipchest
01-04-2009, 12:04 PM
i still cant see the wisdom of discounting the run game theory at a point when ones boss is trying to emphasize it.

revefsreleets
01-05-2009, 10:21 AM
We're up to $45.00 between 43Hitman and myself. You'd better start saving those pennies! :wink02::flap:

Hey revs - you in too?

Absoeffinglutely

I want to add a caveat: This is ONLY if Arians gets fired. If he is wooed out by another team we still win the bet.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2009, 11:28 AM
For the record though, these are the rushing stats for the winning teams yesterday:

Colts - 167
Cardinals - 86

.

I think you meant the Chargers had 167 rushing yards. Actually 3 of the winning teams outrushed their opponents. Only the Vikings outrushed their opponent and lost. Giving up the pick-6 to Samuel, letting Westbrook run 70 yards on a screen pass and giving up 109yds on punt returns didnt help their cause. Here are the rushing stats from the weekend.

Baltimore- 151 yards rushing.....................Miami- 52
Philly - 67 yards rushing..............................Minnesota- 148
Chargers- 167 yards rushing.....................Indy- 64
Cardinals- 86 yards rushing......................Atlanta 60

HometownGal
01-05-2009, 11:39 AM
And for the record, if you know the OL is horrible wouldn't it be your responsibility as the OC to call plays to not expose your OL weakness.

The OL overall is Zierlein's responsibility, not Arians'.

It would also be the players' responsibilities, being paid the handsome sums they are, to EXECUTE the plays - the same plays they work on in practice. i'm sure Arians is smart enough to realize that if his plays aren't cutting the mustard in practice, they sure as hell aren't going to work in the game. :banging:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2009, 11:54 AM
The OL overall is Zierlein's responsibility, not Arians'.

It would also be the players' responsibilities, being paid the handsome sums they are, to EXECUTE the plays - the same plays they work on in practice. i'm sure Arians is smart enough to realize that if his plays aren't cutting the mustard in practice, they sure as hell aren't going to work in the game. :banging:

I agree with you that the OL is Zierline's responsibility and if you watch them play, they stop blocking before the whistle.....which is distressing. LZ should be upgraded in the offseason.

Have you ever thought that the players are executing, but the O-line coach has not drawn up the most effective blocking assignments? Or, the players are executing a quick play action pass into the flat for Moore, but the defense is all over that 3rd and 2 to go play?

You are assuming that Arians is "smart enough", but maybe he is too stubborn to admitt if something isnt working. After all, the first thing the Browns did after firing Arians was sign a true FB in Terrelle Smith because they felt it was key in their short yardage problems.

tony hipchest
01-05-2009, 12:06 PM
I agree with you that the OL is Zierline's responsibility and if you watch them play, they stop blocking before the whistle.....which is distressing. LZ should be upgraded in the offseason.

.slim pickins?

what about "the cable guy" (assuming he likely gets replaced as raiders HC)?

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2009, 12:25 PM
slim pickins?

what about "the cable guy" (assuming he likely gets replaced as raiders HC)?

There will always be turnover in the coaching ranks as coaches and their staff are fired. Also, lots of great coaches in the college game. I wouldnt touch the Cable guy, as they have had talent, but never a good O line.

Pat Ruel of USC is one of the best in the nation
Mike Markuson at Ole Miss coached Arkansas and great O lines with guys like Shawn Andrews, Jonathan Luigs, Tony Ugoh.
Hugh Nall at Auburn has coached several NFL players including Marcus McNeil
Stacey Searels of Georgia coached O line at LSU before.

Lots of great coaches out there instead of Zeirline. He was the O line coach with Arians in Cleveland and then moved to Buffalo after the Butch Davis regime got canned. He has never been a successful line coach in the NFL, but has ties to Tomlin from University of Cincinatti where he coached some good lines in conf USA.

43Hitman
01-05-2009, 01:00 PM
I agree with you that the OL is Zierline's responsibility and if you watch them play, they stop blocking before the whistle.....which is distressing. LZ should be upgraded in the offseason.

Have you ever thought that the players are executing, but the O-line coach has not drawn up the most effective blocking assignments? Or, the players are executing a quick play action pass into the flat for Moore, but the defense is all over that 3rd and 2 to go play?

You are assuming that Arians is "smart enough", but maybe he is too stubborn to admitt if something isnt working. After all, the first thing the Browns did after firing Arians was sign a true FB in Terrelle Smith because they felt it was key in their short yardage problems.

I think this statement is very telling.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2009, 01:07 PM
I think this statement is very telling. So is this one from the 2004 Browns season preview.

The Browns will have a legitimate fullback for the first time in the expansion era, as Terrelle Smith will look to help the team convert the short-yardage and goal-line situations that were the bane of the team's existence in 2003. http://det.scout.com/a.z?s=93&p=2&c=292767

lilyoder6
01-05-2009, 01:45 PM
hopefully BA tries the i-formation in this game.. even tho it was against the browns he should still use it as players like running that formation

DACEB
01-07-2009, 09:19 AM
Ben and Tomlin are very happy with Arians.

I find this amusing, especially from the one who constantly insists the fans have no insight whatsoever into the inner workings of the team.

What do you base your opinion on???

Maybe Ed Bouchette has some insight.......this from Eds chat....

TheMesh: Are you completely convinced that Tomlin is happy with Arians and his offensive philosophy?

Ed Bouchette: No, although Mike has not shared his thought with me on that matter.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09006/939930-66.stm

I can only hope that there is a change in OC. I'll offer my insight on the matter.
To me it's as easy as this.....
We've had problems with blitzing all year. We've seen Ben and the WRs not be on the same page as far as recognizing 'hot routes' and such. Who is responsible for that?? Arians is responsible, thats who. Maybe Fichtner, the WRs coach. Who was the WRs coach prior to Fichtner? That's right it was Arians. So he should have been on top of that already, do you see how this is working out?!?!

stillers4me
01-07-2009, 09:25 AM
I saw that one word, also DACEB when I read his chat yesterday. One word, NO. Something made him say that. Tomlin has too much class to publicly make his thoughts known but something in the air of that locker room ( and it's not sweat) made Bouchette make that statement. Time will tell.

GodofGridiron
01-07-2009, 09:34 AM
If this offense looks pathetic on Sunday, and Ben or Byron get pummeled on the regular, and a loss ensues as a result, i believe Arians will be re-evaluated by Tomlin and management personnel may recommend his dismissal.

Steeldude
01-07-2009, 10:11 AM
here are a few stats on the 2001-04 arians/zierlein combo when they were in cleveland...


31, 23 , 26 and 28 <--those numbers represent where the browns ranked on offense in the NFL from 2001-2004.

31, 23, 20, and 23 <--those numbers represent where the browns rushing attack ranked in the NFL from 2001-2004.

it's possible those ranks could have a little to do with lack of player execution. it's not like the browns were filled with talented players.

browns' QB sacks allowed from 2001 - 2004 with zierlein as their O-line coach...

2001 - 51

2002 - 35

2003 - 40

2004 - 41

Zierlein was the offensive line coach at the University of Cincinnati (1997-2000) when Tomlin was the Bearcats' secondary coach and also was the Browns' offensive line coach in 2001-04 when Arians was the offensive coordinator

tomlin might have picked zierlein based more on friendship than ability. just an opinion

GodofGridiron
01-07-2009, 10:17 AM
here are a few stats on the 2001-04 arians/zierlein combo when they were in cleveland...


31, 23 , 26 and 28 <--those numbers represent where the browns ranked on offense in the NFL from 2001-2004.

31, 23, 20, and 23 <--those numbers represent where the browns rushing attack ranked in the NFL from 2001-2004.

it's possible those ranks could have a little to do with lack of player execution. it's not like the browns were filled with talented players.

browns' QB sacks allowed from 2001 - 2004 with zierlein as their O-line coach...

2001 - 51

2002 - 35

2003 - 40

2004 - 41



tomlin might have picked zierlein based more on friendship than ability. just an opinion


Those numbers above do not sell well with me at all. Those are very revealing...........troubling and if those two remain on staff im afraid more of the same is on the order in the future. They (numbers) dont tell the whole story, but they summarize what seems to be a problem......a huge problem. Again.....this is a testament of just how dominant our defensive unit is.

BullockBlitz
01-07-2009, 10:18 AM
Titans fan here. In my opinion you guys need to get back to Smashmouth football. The Steelers are like a Ford F-150 trying to drive like a Ferrari. The team isnt built for finesse. Just my opinion which doesn't mean much here. But I wish you guys luck on Sunday, cause everyone here does not wanna face the Chargers

GO TITANS!!

HometownGal
01-07-2009, 10:20 AM
Titans fan here. In my opinion you guys need to get back to Smashmouth football. The Steelers are like a Ford F-150 trying to drive like a Ferrari. The team isnt built for finesse. Just my opinion which doesn't mean much here. But I wish you guys luck on Sunday, cause everyone here does not wanna face the Chargers

GO TITANS!!

Our OL isn't built for finesse. I don't believe our running game has been "smashmouth" since The Bus retired. Just mho.

I would think after what your goons did to disrespect our TT, you'd fear us more than the Chargers who really haven't proven all that much thus far.

DACEB
01-07-2009, 10:29 AM
tomlin might have picked zierlein based more on friendship than ability. just an opinion

That's the downfall of a young coach, IMO, in that he really doesn't have a network of coaches that he's had experience with.

That's probably the reason we kept as many of the coaches we had in the organization already. Worked out great with LeBeau, not so great with Arians.

And that would probably be the only reason we see Arians back next year, unless management takes a hold of the situation.

BullockBlitz
01-07-2009, 10:31 AM
Well if you size up the two teams steelers and titans. I feel our stengths (our defensive line) out weigh your weaknesses (the o-line) , and the play call from what I hear in this forum. The chargers look like they are on fire in all aspects of the game right now. They got too much momentum. Terrible Towel aside , I think we are geared better to beat you guys more then the chargers. Oh ya and I predict that Vince Young will be used on some package plays. Mark my words!!!

DACEB
01-07-2009, 10:34 AM
and I predict that Vince Young will be used on some package plays. Mark my words!!!

Darnnit, their gonna bust out the 'wildcat'. Where's Dixon? We can do that to!!:toofunny:

stillers4me
01-07-2009, 10:39 AM
Our OL isn't built for finesse.

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head! But why, pray tell, does the OC call plays like it is? And there's the problem. Right now, I can't tell what we're built for. No Bus, no smashmouth. No protection, no finesse. That's where we are and Ben has to take up the slack, He has to take risks to make something out of nothing.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-07-2009, 11:52 AM
Hey Steeldude....what were the offensive passing rankings of Arians offenses in Cleveland?? They made playoffs at least once during that tenure.

As for "finesse" on any O-line, it doesnt exist. Its a violent position and really its just a choice to run the ball right at the defense out of a power formation, or run stretch plays to let the RB find holes. The Steelers dont really do either and have little of an offensive identity because of it.

Steeldude
01-07-2009, 12:28 PM
Hey Steeldude....what were the offensive passing rankings of Arians offenses in Cleveland?? They made playoffs at least once during that tenure.



ranks based on total passing yards:

2001 - 28th

2002 - 18th

2003 - 25th

2004 - 25th

reached the playoffs in 2002 with a 9-7 record. browns lost to the steelers 36-33

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-07-2009, 12:34 PM
ranks based on total passing yards:

2001 - 28th

2002 - 18th

2003 - 25th

2004 - 25th

reached the playoffs in 2002 with a 9-7 record. browns lost to the steelers 36-33
WOW!! I somehow thought they would have had better success than that. I remember the year they made the wildcard and Couch/Holcombe were slinging it all around to Kevin Johnson, Northcutt, Davis, Morgan and even getting it to the RB Jameel White on swing passes. I thought the offensive stats would be better than that.

I know you cant blame Arians/Zeirline, the line sucked....the QB sucked.....the RB sucked.....they had no FB to lead block.:rolleyes: It all sounds familiar though.

Pi Kapp Steeler
01-07-2009, 02:45 PM
We need to have a FB in this game. Willie and Mewelde are gunna be about to run past there shadows in a singleback!