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View Full Version : My exact thoughts on drafting a RB in round 1


BehindSteelCurtain
01-01-2009, 10:42 PM
This has nothing to do with Mendy getting hurt this season because we really haven't seen whole lot of him in the NFL. My point being, just because he's a 1st round pick doesn't mean he's going to turn out like what they predict. I think it's based on scouting.

Notable big name RBs that weren't taken in RD 1.

Michael Turner, Falcons, Round 5
Brandon Jacobs, Giants, Round 4
Maurice Jones-Drew, Jags, Round 2
Steve Slaton, Texans, Round 3
Matt Forte, Bears, Round 2
Ryan Grant, Packers, Undrafted
LenDale White, Titans, Round 2
Clinton Portis, Skins, Round 2
Frank Gore, 49ers, Round 3
Brian Westbrook, Eagles, Round 3
Marion Barber, Cowboys, Round 4

There's more but I think you get the point. There are tons of RBs in the draft so it's not always worth taking one that high. I'm not saying Mendy will never be good but It's a bit of a risk.

Crushzilla
01-01-2009, 11:25 PM
This has nothing to do with Mendy getting hurt this season because we really haven't seen whole lot of him in the NFL. My point being, just because he's a 1st round pick doesn't mean he's going to turn out like what they predict. I think it's based on scouting.

Notable big name RBs that weren't taken in RD 1.

Michael Turner, Falcons, Round 5
Brandon Jacobs, Giants, Round 4
Maurice Jones-Drew, Jags, Round 2
Steve Slaton, Texans, Round 3
Matt Forte, Bears, Round 2
Ryan Grant, Packers, Undrafted
LenDale White, Titans, Round 2
Clinton Portis, Skins, Round 2
Frank Gore, 49ers, Round 3
Brian Westbrook, Eagles, Round 3
Marion Barber, Cowboys, Round 4

There's more but I think you get the point. There are tons of RBs in the draft so it's not always worth taking one that high. I'm not saying Mendy will never be good but It's a bit of a risk.

Right. It is a risk, but the reason guys go in the first round is because, generally, it is understood that they have the skill set to make a successful transition.

Be serious, though, there are less first round busts than 6th round gems.

PisnNapalm
01-01-2009, 11:50 PM
Ricky Williams anyone?

You gotta draft a rock in the first round. Someone who has no question marks against them and who will definitely contribute. O-line is where I'd go in the first round.

MasterOfPuppets
01-02-2009, 12:40 AM
what exactly is the point here? you can make this arguement for EVERY position.

tony hipchest
01-02-2009, 12:46 AM
jerome bettis was a top 10 pick.

The Duke
01-02-2009, 01:47 AM
what exactly is the point here? you can make this arguement for EVERY position.

Just what I was thinking

I believe many doubted the selection of mendenhall, especially with all the line troubles, and it got worse with his injury

All we can do is wait and see really

Texasteel
01-02-2009, 06:18 AM
Now that Green from Iowa has declared, I kinda wish we would not have drafted him, I'm an Iowa homer too.

Green would have been perfect Steeler type RB. at least he would have been 2 years ago.

Good pick, bad pick, that remains to be seen, but he is a Steeler, and that alone makes me one of his biggest fans.

Rhee Rhee
01-02-2009, 07:29 AM
i would like to see a RB in the later rounds... 4 maybe 5? we need an explosive returner and a 3rd down back that can take over for mewelde... i was thinking along the lines of marcus thigpen... 5'9 200ish should run at least a 4.4 at the combine.. gives us a KR and a nice set of hands...

SunshineMan21
01-12-2009, 01:57 PM
what exactly is the point here? you can make this arguement for EVERY position.


You can, but not every position is equally fungibile.

I don't have a link to back this up, but I've read studies analyzing the relative value of different round picks at different positions.

In general, the drop-off is steeper from the early rounds at some positions (ex. O-Line) than others.

I'm not a big fan of the RB 1st round either, but it's because I think we had bigger needs, not because I think Mendy is a bad player.

Drafting a good O-lineman can often have a bigger impact on the run game than drafting a good RB, especially if your incumbent O-line is bad and your RB is decent.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-12-2009, 02:18 PM
I'm not a big fan of the RB 1st round either, but it's because I think we had bigger needs, not because I think Mendy is a bad player.

Drafting a good O-lineman can often have a bigger impact on the run game than drafting a good RB, especially if your incumbent O-line is bad and your RB is decent.
The problem with this arguement is that nobody that says we should have drafted O-line can tell me who was a decent O lineman available with the #23 pick. There was none!!

Steelers could have drafted OT Anthony Collins in the 3rd round instead of Bruce Davis and got a quality O lineman. Chilo Rachal and Mike Pollack were not worth the selection and dont fit the Steelers Oline.

Mendenhall was the BPA and the correct pick. Now lets wait until next season to judge. I think this time last season you probably felt the Timmons pick was a waste too.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-12-2009, 02:25 PM
The problem with this arguement is that nobody that says we should have drafted O-line can tell me who was a decent O lineman available with the #23 pick. There was none!!

Steelers could have drafted OT Anthony Collins in the 3rd round instead of Bruce Davis and got a quality O lineman. Chilo Rachal and Mike Pollack were not worth the selection and dont fit the Steelers Oline.

Mendenhall was the BPA and the correct pick. Now lets wait until next season to judge. I think this time last season you probably felt the Timmons pick was a waste too.

Great points....and throw in the fact that before his injury, Tony Hills was considered a first round talent. If he starts next season or the season after he will be considered a steal.

MasterOfPuppets
01-12-2009, 02:30 PM
The problem with this arguement is that nobody that says we should have drafted O-line can tell me who was a decent O lineman available with the #23 pick. There was none!!

Steelers could have drafted OT Anthony Collins in the 3rd round instead of Bruce Davis and got a quality O lineman. Chilo Rachal and Mike Pollack were not worth the selection and dont fit the Steelers Oline.

Mendenhall was the BPA and the correct pick. Now lets wait until next season to judge. I think this time last season you probably felt the Timmons pick was a waste too.this was gonna be my responce also......but the 2 yrs prior , when we picked timmons and holmes, there were starting quality linemen available, at a much cheaper price. (trade down). mangold, grubbs, ugoh, blaylock ....to name a few. i just felt, and still feel, that with the emminent departure of hartings, and faneca, they woulda, been the wiser choice. the terrible line play the last few years, backs up my opinion.

ShutDown24
01-12-2009, 02:39 PM
Great points....and throw in the fact that before his injury, Tony Hills was considered a first round talent. If he starts next season or the season after he will be considered a steal.

I've tried to make this point before but no one ever wants to hear it. Hills has a chance to be good, but it's like most people have simply forgotten about him.

MasterOfPuppets
01-12-2009, 02:45 PM
I've tried to make this point before but no one ever wants to hear it. Hills has a chance to be good, but it's like most people have simply forgotten about him.could it be because he wasn't able to take a starting spot from either, willie "the penalty" colon, or max " lost my job to a bum" starks?

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-12-2009, 02:55 PM
I've tried to make this point before but no one ever wants to hear it. Hills has a chance to be good, but it's like most people have simply forgotten about him.

With the Steelers organization...it is not uncommon for a lineman to have to wait a year or two before they start full time...Even Smith who was drafted #38 overall, only managed three consecutive starts his rookie year.

We need to look at the next two years to see what Hills can do...and if he pans out.

SunshineMan21
01-12-2009, 03:32 PM
I wasn't trying to argue against the Mendenhall selection specifically--in fact, under the circumstances I agreed with the selection. Whether we could have traded up and gotten someone like Clady or Otah is pure speculation, but if that was reasonably possible it would have been my top choice.

My argument was a general one that good offensive lineman are much more valuable than good running backs. Occasionally there will be a guy like Adrian Peterson who, at the margins, is worth more than a top O-lineman, but in general it's wiser to spend first round picks on the line when comparably talented players are available.

I think that's a fair point to make.

The Duke
01-12-2009, 04:42 PM
[/B]could it be because he wasn't able to take a starting spot from either, willie "the penalty" colon, or max " lost my job to a bum" starks?

:sofunny:

lol. He did look very very raw in preseason

I hope he becomes something, but I'm not holding my breath

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-12-2009, 07:43 PM
this was gonna be my responce also......but the 2 yrs prior , when we picked timmons and holmes, there were starting quality linemen available, at a much cheaper price. (trade down). mangold, grubbs, ugoh, blaylock ....to name a few. i just felt, and still feel, that with the emminent departure of hartings, and faneca, they woulda, been the wiser choice. the terrible line play the last few years, backs up my opinion.

Yeah, you are right that I dont think we needed 2LB's, but I am happy we got 2 good players in Timmons and Woodley.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-12-2009, 07:46 PM
I've tried to make this point before but no one ever wants to hear it. Hills has a chance to be good, but it's like most people have simply forgotten about him.

It isnt that we have forgotten about him, it is that with all the injuries that Jeremy Parquet and Jason Capizzi have ended up ahead of him on the depth chart. Anthony Collins has started games and would have been farther along than Hills.

I said before, I see athleticism in Hills, but he blocks with his shoulders and not his hands. That is what gets him beat in pass rushing. I honestly have hopes he can start at RT next season.

Aussie_steeler
01-13-2009, 12:10 AM
Personally I think Timmons, Woodley, Mendenhall and Sweed are going to be a high quality core of young players that this team will rely upon heavily in 3 - 4 years time.

That core now needs two O linemen to add to the above list. The running game and a high quality defence will always be the recipe for success in Pittsburgh.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-13-2009, 12:27 PM
It isnt that we have forgotten about him, it is that with all the injuries that Jeremy Parquet and Jason Capizzi have ended up ahead of him on the depth chart. Anthony Collins has started games and would have been farther along than Hills.

I said before, I see athleticism in Hills, but he blocks with his shoulders and not his hands. That is what gets him beat in pass rushing. I honestly have hopes he can start at RT next season.

If I recall correctly ...Anthony Collins came with some off field baggage...which would have possibly taken him off the Steelers draft board

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-13-2009, 03:46 PM
If I recall correctly ...Anthony Collins came with some off field baggage...which would have possibly taken him off the Steelers draft board

I dont know of anything off field that caused Collins to slide. Carl Nicks had issues, but so did Santonio Holmes.

I still maintain that instead of Davis and Hills.....if we took Collins and Nicks, we would be decently stocked on the O line for 2009.

ben7
01-14-2009, 09:28 AM
260 000th post

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-14-2009, 11:14 AM
260 000th post
Thanks, we appreciate the insight. :coffee:

MasterOfPuppets
01-14-2009, 11:34 AM
Thanks, we appreciate the insight. :coffee:
lol....i scratched my head on that one as well.......what would you think of taking raji in the 1st? not sure when hamptons contract is up, but they need to start grooming his replacement asap.....REAL NT's are hard to come by these days, and raji from a physical stand point looks just like hampton, did you see him own that guard in the youtube i posted? :doh:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-14-2009, 12:47 PM
.......what would you think of taking raji in the 1st? not sure when hamptons contract is up, but they need to start grooming his replacement asap.....REAL NT's are hard to come by these days, and raji from a physical stand point looks just like hampton, did you see him own that guard in the youtube i posted? :doh:

That would honestly start a mutiny in Steeler nation, but I always like taking the BPA within a need category. I think we need O line and D line in the draft and would like to address both with the first 3 selections.

If we get a compensatory 3rd for Faneca, I have no problem with Raji in the 1st, then maybe using one of the 3rd rounders tp trade up and get a good guard or OT at the middle of the 2nd and another at the end of the 3rd.

The picks could be something like Raji, Loadholt, Urbik. or Raji, Loadholt, Vasquez, or Raji, Robinson, Boone (Tupoau). It means we would probably only get a OT that would be a solid RT and a good guard, so we would have to look to free agency for our LT........which is a real possiblity.

MasterOfPuppets
01-14-2009, 01:01 PM
That would honestly start a mutiny in Steeler nation, but I always like taking the BPA within a need category. I think we need O line and D line in the draft and would like to address both with the first 3 selections.

If we get a compensatory 3rd for Faneca, I have no problem with Raji in the 1st, then maybe using one of the 3rd rounders tp trade up and get a good guard or OT at the middle of the 2nd and another at the end of the 3rd.

The picks could be something like Raji, Loadholt, Urbik. or Raji, Loadholt, Vasquez, or Raji, Robinson, Boone (Tupoau). It means we would probably only get a OT that would be a solid RT and a good guard, so we would have to look to free agency for our LT........which is a real possiblity.i just got a sick feeling in my stomach, that starks is going to be the left tackle next year, while they continue to evaluate hills....even if they could just send " false start" colon to the bench, i'd be happy....:thumbsup:

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-14-2009, 01:44 PM
I dont know of anything off field that caused Collins to slide. Carl Nicks had issues, but so did Santonio Holmes.

I still maintain that instead of Davis and Hills.....if we took Collins and Nicks, we would be decently stocked on the O line for 2009.

I might be thinking of Carl Nicks....:noidea:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-14-2009, 01:49 PM
i just got a sick feeling in my stomach, that starks is going to be the left tackle next year, while they continue to evaluate hills....even if they could just send " false start" colon to the bench, i'd be happy....:thumbsup:

I have the same sick feeling too, that they will either sign Starks or Smith and his again surgically repaired back. I also think they will look to extend Colon or tender him a qualifying offer as he is a RFA this offseason. I believe that Colon is in the long term plans of the Steelers and I think he is a good lineman.....I would just rather see him at guard.

I really dont know what we do at LT(maybe Hills?), but would love to see the O-line of the future be LG-Willie Colon, C-Hartwig(Stapleton or Matt Tennant), RG-Duke Robinson, RT-Alex Boone.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-14-2009, 01:57 PM
I might be thinking of Carl Nicks....:noidea:

Yeah, just think of the possible young group of guys we could have if we pulled the trigger this past season. 2009 could have been

LT-Anthony Collins
LG-Willie Colon
C-Justin Hartwig
RG-Carl Nicks (or Simmons)
RT- Essex, Parquet, Capizzi, or a pick like Boone, Loadholt, Tupou

And still have $20mil to sign McFadden, Washington, go after Chris Canty and draft a NT.

MDSteel15
01-15-2009, 01:47 PM
Yeah, just think of the possible young group of guys we could have if we pulled the trigger this past season. 2009 could have been

LT-Anthony Collins
LG-Willie Colon
C-Justin Hartwig
RG-Carl Nicks (or Simmons)
RT- Essex, Parquet, Capizzi, or a pick like Boone, Loadholt, Tupou

And still have $20mil to sign McFadden, Washington, go after Chris Canty and draft a NT.

Ummm, isn't Loadholt a LT???

Aussie_steeler
01-15-2009, 04:55 PM
Ummm, isn't Loadholt a LT???

Yes - but in the NFL he is projected as a RT. Something to do with handling the speed rushers. He was shown up by Orakpo when they played Texas.

Rhee Rhee
01-16-2009, 04:42 PM
Yes - but in the NFL he is projected as a RT. Something to do with handling the speed rushers. He was shown up by Orakpo when they played Texas.

jake long couldn't handle vernon gholston and he turned out an OK left tackle... but i understand ur point and he would be a very good RT/ or at the least a decent LT....

Aussie_steeler
01-16-2009, 09:32 PM
jake long couldn't handle vernon gholston and he turned out an OK left tackle... but i understand ur point and he would be a very good RT/ or at the least a decent LT....

I think the recent trend in the draft is that teams see the first four or five OT's as having maximum potential as LT's and then those below would be more comfortable starting at RT then moving over with experience.

Given time I think he will play a lot of LT when all is said and done - I just dont think he will start there.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-19-2009, 01:08 PM
Ummm, isn't Loadholt a LT???

The RT position is less demanding as its not the QB blindside and most of the speed rushers are on the LT side. Its pretty common for young OT's to start in the RT position, then move over to the LT once they are acclimated to the game.

Marvel Smith, Max Starks, Jordan Gross, Joe Staley, Levi Brown.....even Joe Thomas started his rookie season as a RT until injuries forced him to the LT spot. Mostly, only the blue chip prospects on bad teams get pushed into the LT spot right away. Jake Long, Brandon Albert, Ryan Clady are good examples.

Steely McSmash
02-09-2009, 09:08 PM
The problem with this arguement is that nobody that says we should have drafted O-line can tell me who was a decent O lineman available with the #23 pick. There was none!!

Steelers could have drafted OT Anthony Collins in the 3rd round instead of Bruce Davis and got a quality O lineman. Chilo Rachal and Mike Pollack were not worth the selection and dont fit the Steelers Oline.


I haven't seen him play this year but I looked up his starts and Chilo Rachal was active for 8 games and started the last 6 this year. I'd say he's probably a decent lineman by any stretch of the imagination. The DE talent last year was also quite good.

This "not reaching" mentality makes no sense at all. Get what you need out of the draft is what I say. If you have no glaring needs then BPA for depth makes sense but for the last 3 years O-line has been a major concern that the front office has been content to try to solve with low round picks and UDFA gambles. The results speak for themselves.

My guess is that Marvel Smith will sign for low $ for a couple of years and Starks will be let go. If Starks wanted to stay for reasonable money he'd have re-negotiated last summer. Essex and Kemo can probably be had for low money but I hope they don't make the 09 roster. I think Colon will be re-signed and hopefully moved inside.

I'd also like to see Simmons traded for a draft pick.

Bottom line is that there will need to be some new starters next year and that means that the line will struggle a little at least in the begining of the year,

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 09:56 PM
I haven't seen him play this year but I looked up his starts and Chilo Rachal was active for 8 games and started the last 6 this year. I'd say he's probably a decent lineman by any stretch of the imagination. The DE talent last year was also quite good.

This "not reaching" mentality makes no sense at all. Get what you need out of the draft is what I say. ,

OK, so you are judging Chilo Rachal to be a good player because you read that he started the last 6 games for 7-9 San Francisco 49ers and I think are saying you would have spent the #23 pick on Chilo Rachal............correct???

I personally would have rather taken Jeremy Zuttah in the 2nd as he had played RT at Rutgers and was probably more experienced and mature than Rachal. Also had a reputation as a strong competitor.....the toughest guy on the Rutgers team.

The Steelers had Mendenhall graded as going in the top 10 and were not gonna pass him up if he got to them. They are professional talent evaluators and did their job which I have no problem with.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 10:05 PM
This "not reaching" mentality makes no sense at all. Get what you need out of the draft is what I say. ,

Think back to 2004 draft and the following teams drafted by "need" and took the players that fit need instead of BPA.

Raiders- Robert Gallery, OT
Browns- Kellen Winslow, TE
Jaguars- Reggie Williams, WR
Texans- Dunta Robinson, CB

They all passed on Ben Roethilisberger, QB....because they had other needs. Do you think they could use a franchise QB now?? :wink: Good thing they were able to "get what you need out of the draft".

lilyoder6
02-09-2009, 10:12 PM
Think back to 2004 draft and the following teams drafted by "need" and took the players that fit need instead of BPA.

Raiders- Robert Gallery, OT
Browns- Kellen Winslow, TE
Jaguars- Reggie Williams, WR
Texans- Dunta Robinson, CB

They all passed on Ben Roethilisberger, QB....because they had other needs. Do you think they could use a franchise QB now?? :wink: Good thing they were able to "get what you need out of the draft".

i think that winslow was a good pick, he is a good te, and robinson was a very good pick, then he started 2 get hurt.... obv all these teams prob want big ben now... but what a bust gallery and willaims were

Steely McSmash
02-10-2009, 08:53 PM
Think back to 2004 draft and the following teams drafted by "need" and took the players that fit need instead of BPA.

Raiders- Robert Gallery, OT
Browns- Kellen Winslow, TE
Jaguars- Reggie Williams, WR
Texans- Dunta Robinson, CB

They all passed on Ben Roethilisberger, QB....because they had other needs. Do you think they could use a franchise QB now?? :wink: Good thing they were able to "get what you need out of the draft".

Why would they draft a QB if they didn't need one? Sorry but it makes no sense.

You'll always be able to cherry pick your examples in hind sight.

My opinion is if you need to fill 3 spots on the o-linem then draft 5 guys and keep the ones that work out.

Steely McSmash
02-10-2009, 09:05 PM
OK, so you are judging Chilo Rachal to be a good player because you read that he started the last 6 games for 7-9 San Francisco 49ers and I think are saying you would have spent the #23 pick on Chilo Rachal............correct???

I personally would have rather taken Jeremy Zuttah in the 2nd as he had played RT at Rutgers and was probably more experienced and mature than Rachal. Also had a reputation as a strong competitor.....the toughest guy on the Rutgers team.

The Steelers had Mendenhall graded as going in the top 10 and were not gonna pass him up if he got to them. They are professional talent evaluators and did their job which I have no problem with.

I'm not saying I would have drafted Chilo Rachal. Just saying that he's probably a decent lineman based on starting as a rookie. Your original post was that no DECENT linemen were available. I don't watch enough college ball to evaluate these players but I'm 100% positive that we could have got someone to contribute on the O-line.

I think BPA has it's place if there are no glaring weaknesses or if outstanding value is available. I do truly think you have to approach the draft with a goal of picking up players to compete for specific situations by the end of the weekend. That has not happened for the Steelers for the last few years.

I think in the long run Mendenhall is a good call due to tremendous value. I don't think the same is true of Sweed. He didn't look much better than half of the UDFA we picked up and then cut. WR was not a position of glaring need in my opinion.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2009, 09:20 PM
I'm not saying I would have drafted Chilo Rachal. Just saying that he's probably a decent lineman based on starting as a rookie. Your original post was that no DECENT linemen were available. I don't watch enough college ball to evaluate these players but I'm 100% positive that we could have got someone to contribute on the O-line.

I think BPA has it's place if there are no glaring weaknesses or if outstanding value is available. I do truly think you have to approach the draft with a goal of picking up players to compete for specific situations by the end of the weekend. That has not happened for the Steelers for the last few years.

I think in the long run Mendenhall is a good call due to tremendous value. I don't think the same is true of Sweed. He didn't look much better than half of the UDFA we picked up and then cut. WR was not a position of glaring need in my opinion.

I do agree with you on some points and can agree that Philip Merling and some other D linemen were there to draft too. I thought we could have gone line in round 2 or 3, but again the front office was thinking they could use WR Sweed when Nate leaves. They planned ahead and took the BPA which hopefully will work out in the end.

The problem I have with most people that bitch about the Mendenhall pick is that they gripe we should have taken an O lineman, but honestly I don't think Duane Brown, Chilo Rachal, Mike Pollack, Jeremy Zuttah or Jon Greco were worthy of that pick. People that complain about problems, without offering a viable solution are just frustrating to me. :banging:

At least if somebody said that we should have taken Philip Merling, Jeremy Zuttah, Anthony Collins and Tashard Choice in that order its a reasonable arguement instead of .......Mendenhall is a wasted pick.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2009, 09:27 PM
Why would they draft a QB if they didn't need one? Sorry but it makes no sense.

You'll always be able to cherry pick your examples in hind sight.

My opinion is if you need to fill 3 spots on the o-linem then draft 5 guys and keep the ones that work out.
The point is that all of these teams are in need of a QB and not all of them had a solid one in place.

Oakland -Rich Gannon and Kerry Collins.....could have used a franchise QB
Cleveland- with Jeff Garcia ...........could have used a QB
Jax had Leftwich and ATL had Vick, so I give them a pass.

Many had Rashard Mendenhall as the #2 RB behind either McFadden or Stewart( I personally thought Stewart, Mendenhall, Forte, McFadden in that order were the best) and you dont pass on a top 10 talent if it slides to #23. Just look at the teams that passed on Dan Marino.