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Edman
01-13-2009, 05:35 PM
Remember him?

Dude has been quietly having a nice season at Left Tackle. I'm serious. This may be hard to say, but it looks like Marvel is done in Pittsburgh.

What is with the improvement? Was he playing out of position at RT or something?

JackHammer
01-13-2009, 05:39 PM
But, but, but, why did we pay Starks so much money???? I guess this is why.

Dino 6 Rings
01-13-2009, 05:43 PM
ah heck man...we are only in the AFC Title game...the entire O-line has to go this off season

:couch:

Preacher
01-13-2009, 05:46 PM
He actually did well there last season as well. Why? Who knows. I think we let Marvel walk and sign Starks long term as our left tackle. Then we bring people via the draft to compete. We can only improve at this point. If Starks can beat out a good draft pick, then that is simply good for us. That pick can then start pushing Willie Colon out of a position.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-13-2009, 05:47 PM
Wait and see my friends. Starks has played satisfactorily, but that is about it. He still struggles with speed rushers and sometimes doesnt seem that interested in run blocking. I still think he could be upgraded in free agency or with a draft pick and dont really want to spend big $$ on a long term contract for him.

As for the question of was he playing out of position. Maybe. Starks is naturally left handed and pass protection requires a "kick-slide" back in pass protection. Starks really doesnt use one so I dont think it should matter too much, but it involves him kicking his left foot backwards. For a guy that is left handed and probably left footed, a kick slide should be easier for him on the left side. Its like trying to kick a soccer ball with your right foot vs. your left foot.

Congrats to Max, he has been playing much better, but hasnt faced a real good speed rusher since Freeney. I hope he moves on in the offseason for the Steelers best interest.

Oops, I forgot while he got worked a bit by DeMarcus Ware, he only gave up 1 sack against Ware, but a lot of pressures.

BlastFurnace
01-13-2009, 06:02 PM
We need to keep Max. Max has had a solid year for us. As good as any that Marvel Smith has had in recent years. He's young and he's healthy.

MasterOfPuppets
01-13-2009, 06:03 PM
starks is nothing more than backup material......:coffee:

BlastFurnace
01-13-2009, 06:04 PM
Oops, I forgot while he got worked a bit by DeMarcus Ware, he only gave up 1 sack against Ware, but a lot of pressures.

Demarcus abuses everyone. Max played as well against him as anyone else has. I have seen all the Cowboys games this year. Ware is a beast to block.

Max has been solid. It will be a big mistake if we let him go.

fansince'76
01-13-2009, 06:10 PM
I have seen all the Cowboys games this year.

Torture! :horror:

Edman
01-13-2009, 06:11 PM
Oh No, he had a hard time with Demarcus Ware! What a total bum! I mean Ware stinks! He's only The NFL SACK LEADER and is going to the Pro Bowl! And only held him to one sack! What a bum Starks is. Cut him.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-13-2009, 06:13 PM
Starks has been average to mediocre his entire career with the Steelers. He lost his starting RT spot last season and still could not win it this season.

If you remember the preseason game against Buffalo when Leftwich was sacked and fumbled, it was Starks that got beat badly by Bills rookie Chris Ellis. He actually got beat to the outside and when he rushed to catch up, Ellis cut back inside to demolish Leftwich.

If Starks gets a big contract, my fear is that he will again lose focus and interest in his game. He will then be the same old Max Starks, backup OT. Right now he is playing for his next contract in 2009 and I honestly hope its not here.

Kind of the Kendall Simmons syndrome. Play great in your contract year, then follow it up by playing average or below.

Stillers33
01-13-2009, 06:33 PM
i think we should keep him because he had a good season takin over for smith, but lets talk about this in 3 weeks when we have the lombardi! (knock on wood)

CaliStillersFan
01-13-2009, 06:41 PM
This weekend will be a better test to see if our line has really come together or not. Yes they played great against a weak Brownie and Chargirl D line's, let's see if they can handle the Ravens and open the same holes for Parker this weekend. All I know is that our first 4 draft picks better be offensive lineman.

The Duke
01-13-2009, 06:55 PM
Starks is OK

Why settle for "OK"? We need a real LT there, not a slow tree that earns almost as much as our QB, which he fails to protect at times.

San diego has no pass rusher, especially on the left side. But still, good job by the big guy

They'll still draft that LT next season. Starks will get a backup contract somewhere

Fire Haley
01-13-2009, 06:57 PM
Starks?

We can do better in the draft.


Seriously.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-13-2009, 07:02 PM
Starks is OK

Why settle for "OK"?

:applaudit:

steelreserve
01-13-2009, 07:25 PM
I'll take Starks if we don't have to pay him a fortune and/or we can't find anyone better, but otherwise he doesn't make any sense to keep. I'm just wondering if they'll view RT and DL as more urgent needs and keep Starks by default, because they're willing to settle for OK after all they spent on more pressing problems.

I honestly think they'll try to address RT first, because then maybe we get a 2-for-1 if Colon turns out to be any good as a guard.

Smith? He was gone anyway no matter how Starks played. In fact, we've pretty much been playing without him for two years already, so it shouldn't even affect us. I worry about his future, though; a chronically bad back is not good to have if you're a lineman on the wrong side of 30.

BlastFurnace
01-13-2009, 08:15 PM
Torture! :horror:

LOL...it wasn't this year.

BlastFurnace
01-13-2009, 08:19 PM
Starks has been average to mediocre his entire career with the Steelers. He lost his starting RT spot last season and still could not win it this season.

If you remember the preseason game against Buffalo when Leftwich was sacked and fumbled, it was Starks that got beat badly by Bills rookie Chris Ellis. He actually got beat to the outside and when he rushed to catch up, Ellis cut back inside to demolish Leftwich.

If Starks gets a big contract, my fear is that he will again lose focus and interest in his game. He will then be the same old Max Starks, backup OT. Right now he is playing for his next contract in 2009 and I honestly hope its not here.

Kind of the Kendall Simmons syndrome. Play great in your contract year, then follow it up by playing average or below.

Your basing your analysis on a preseason game? In comparison, our defense sucked in that game. As a matter of fact, the entire starting unit was bad that night. Now look where we are.

Kendall Simmons is terrible and never performed as good as Starks has this year. Simmons was also a panic move by the Steelers because they knew they were losing Faneca. Starks won't be a panic move. He has performed solidly this year and has earned a big payday.

Honestly, there is no reason to believe that Starks will get lazy. He was solid at the end of last season and has been solid all year long.

There has been absolutely no dropoff from Smith to Starks. If anything, Starks is an upgrade.

Petesburgh66
01-13-2009, 08:32 PM
What is with the improvement? Was he playing out of position at RT or something?

I suspect he was out of position until he was moved to the left side. Why? Max is left handed.

I had a right-handed glove and I was left-handed. I would catch it with my left, take off my glove and throw it.

Source: http://news.steelers.com/article/93684/

Max is now able to swat, push, etc. with his left side exposed to the pass rush better than when he was playing RT. It's just like throwing a baseball. Your going to have more power with your better arm.

Iron Gut
01-13-2009, 08:56 PM
Starks has been the best of a pretty crappy group. That said, If he is willing to sign for a reasonable contract, I'd much rather keep him than the T-rex armed speedbump known as Willie Colon.

Yes, we need to draft a stud LT for the future. Then again, we need 2 guards or maybe a guard and a center. This team is in the AFCCG inspite of this awful unit. However, the only 2 players on it that have been serviceable are Starks and Hartwig.

devilsdancefloor
01-13-2009, 08:57 PM
i wouldnt mind to keep him, but what about hills is he gonna end up RT or LT? Is Doug Legursky or Jason Capizzi gonna step up? or even Trai Essex ? Or are they all just depth? will simmons take his spot back at RG next year? Are there better lineman waiting to be drafted? Just wondering where we are heading on the Oline. I honestly havent followed college ball all that much the past few years.

Preacher
01-13-2009, 09:01 PM
This was an hilarious story from that interview with Starks.When did you first play organized sports?
I was six-years old and went to a small Catholic school and played soccer. I was in the first grade and they told my mom I should go out for soccer. I was like, yeah, Iíll do it. My best friend and little brother were on the team too. They put me in as goalie and I had to wear this yellow uniform and it was a great color jersey, but bees like gold and they thought I was honey. The first game we played I am at goalie and no balls are coming my way. All of a sudden three bees are coming at me and I run out of the goalies net. The one kid that can semi-kick the ball is coming down the field slow as heck and I am nowhere to be found. I am running behind the goal, the bees are chasing me and I am screaming. Luckily the kid didnít score. He hit the corner of the goal post. They took me out as goalie and put me in as a defenseman after that.

MasterOfPuppets
01-13-2009, 09:12 PM
I suspect he was out of position until he was moved to the left side. Why? Max is left handed.



Source: http://news.steelers.com/article/93684/

Max is now able to swat, push, etc. with his left side exposed to the pass rush better than when he was playing RT. It's just like throwing a baseball. Your going to have more power with your better arm.so EVERY left tackle is left handed? :noidea:

GBMelBlount
01-13-2009, 09:22 PM
Starks...for a reasonable contract, I'd much rather keep him than the T-rex armed speedbump known as Willie Colon.



T-rex armed speedbump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl:

I would like to keep Starks if the price is right. Our line sucks and I doubt we can replace everyone and greatly improve in just one year.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-13-2009, 09:27 PM
Your basing your analysis on a preseason game?

Honestly, there is no reason to believe that Starks will get lazy. He was solid at the end of last season and has been solid all year long.

. I'm basing my analysis on Starks history since he was at Florida, he was categorized as lazy there and in his 5 years in the NFL he was given the starting RT job when Oliver Ross left and then lost it to Willie Colon for the past 2 seasons.

I would expect a 5 year guy to at least improved his technique to the point where he learns how to kick slide. Ask yourself this........was he playing for a contract last year? Is he playing for a contract this year?? What happens when that motivation is gone.

Here is his scouting report as a 2004 draft prospect. I dont see much that has changed since.
The late Joel Buchbaum used to use the term "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane." That description describes Max Starks to a tee. At 6-7, 350 pounds, Starks has great size, very good strength, and nice athleticism. He is the physical ideal at the OT position and often wins battles because of those tools. Despite all the talent in the world, Max Starks rarely dominates his opponent. He is only an average run defender who could be much better with added intensity. He is a lazy pass protector who comes out of his stance high, lunges at the defender, and does not use angles well. It is unfortunate; because he can be effective in pass protection when he uses his long arms and athleticism to ride the ends wide. In the end, the Chargers may be a good place for him. Hudson Houck has proven that he can get a lot out of players with talent. If someone can light a fire under Starks, they will have the 2nd best OT from this draft. If not, he will continue to disappoint." -

http://oak.scout.com/a.z?s=66&p=2&c=250647

steelreserve
01-13-2009, 09:35 PM
Despite all the talent in the world, Max Starks rarely dominates his opponent. He is only an average run defender who could be much better with added intensity. He is a lazy pass protector who comes out of his stance high, lunges at the defender, and does not use angles well. It is unfortunate; because he can be effective in pass protection when he uses his long arms and athleticism to ride the ends wide. In the end, the Chargers may be a good place for him. Hudson Houck has proven that he can get a lot out of players with talent. If someone can light a fire under Starks, they will have the 2nd best OT from this draft. If not, he will continue to disappoint." [/B]

Yeah, you would think that with 5 years of NFL coaching and playing next to All-Pros, you wouldn't be making many technical mistakes like that. It's not like you automatically stop learning the game once you finish college.

Give It To Abercrombie
01-13-2009, 09:38 PM
Max is now able to swat, push, etc. with his left side exposed to the pass rush better than when he was playing RT. It's just like throwing a baseball. Your going to have more power with your better arm.

Forget his arms. His weak point is feet. I still think he is serviceable, but is it just me or shouldn't someone left handed slide faster to their right, like a right tackle would? I am righty and I can slide-step to my left (like a LT) much faster and smoother than to my right.
:noidea:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-13-2009, 10:36 PM
but is it just me or shouldn't someone left handed slide faster to their right, like a right tackle would? I am righty and I can slide-step to my left (like a LT) much faster and smoother than to my right.
:noidea:
What foot do you kick with ?? If you are right foot dominant then its easier for you to kick step back and to the right. If you can kick step with your left foot backwards at basically at a 45 degree angle from straight back, then you probably have decent agility.

Take a look at this video and watch the kid with a medicine ball do a short kick step as he picks it up and throws it back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr8edyU6xTw

Basically, the O lineman should do 2 of those. A double tap if you will.....to prepare and set in pass protection. Smith does it perfectly. Starks just sides steps and doesnt keep a good base, nor get any depth.

Give It To Abercrombie
01-13-2009, 10:49 PM
What foot do you kick with ?? If you are right foot dominant then its easier for you to kick step back and to the right. If you can kick step with your left foot backwards at basically at a 45 degree angle from straight back, then you probably have decent agility.

Take a look at this video and watch the kid with a medicine ball do a short kick step as he picks it up and throws it back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr8edyU6xTw

Basically, the O lineman should do 2 of those. A double tap if you will.....to prepare and set in pass protection. Smith does it perfectly. Starks just sides steps and doesnt keep a good base, nor get any depth.

I kick with my right. I have tons more power with my right. But I have a lot more speed and agility with my left. Maybe it is just me. Plus once I am moving it's easier to continue to push off with power and subsequently speed if I am pushing with my right foot and moving to my left. The way I see it, the power comes from the right leg, the left just needs to get the hell where it's supposed to be quickly. I played ball in HS but not enough or with good enough coaching to know if I was doing everything right....

GBMelBlount
01-13-2009, 10:51 PM
I think this kicking thing is important El Gonzo, especially for Starks. Because apparently the only way Starks can stop his opponent is to KICK him in the ding dong.

markymarc
01-14-2009, 07:39 AM
While Starks has done a decent job when playing LT for Smith, I don't want him back. The OL is still the biggest concern with the Steelers and you can't improve it by keeping the same players that started this year. Could a new OL coach help improve things, most likely but you still need to plug in better OL players.