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revefsreleets
01-20-2009, 11:54 AM
My buddy is at the inauguration. He's been to the last few. He said this is the first he's ever heard the crowd overtly boo the outgoing President.

I think that's shameful and very low rent. The man may have made decisions that people didn't like, but it's disrespectful to the office to boo.

I personally think it taints this otherwise historic day...

That aside, I wish Barrack Obama all the luck in the World. We are in a big mess and we need to get out of it...

revefsreleets
01-20-2009, 11:56 AM
Aretha Franklin has no idea what the words to this song are...

Dino 6 Rings
01-20-2009, 12:01 PM
"So this is how Liberty Dies....with thunderous applause"

X-Terminator
01-20-2009, 12:07 PM
Classless. That's all there is to it. And yet, it doesn't surprise me one bit.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-20-2009, 12:10 PM
My buddy is at the inauguration. He's been to the last few. He said this is the first he's ever heard the crowd overtly boo the outgoing President.

I think that's shameful and very low rent. The man may have made decisions that people didn't like, but it's disrespectful to the office to boo.

I personally think it taints this otherwise historic day...

That aside, I wish Barrack Obama all the luck in the World. We are in a big mess and we need to get out of it...

I am not a fan of Obama...but you will not hear me disrespect the office now that he has been elected. This is something that I take great pride in and something that I have passed on to my children.

Booing the past..future..or current President is ignorant...civically irresponsible...and sets a bad example to the next generation as to respect of office and title.

*On a side note...I heard Rick Warrens prayer and would respectfully disagree with him on one point. He said that we, as Americans, are not related by race, religion, or blood. I have said before and believe with all my heart that I am related by blood to my countrymen...the blood spilled by our soldiers past and present are the ties that bind me to all other Americans.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-20-2009, 12:14 PM
Aretha Franklin has no idea what the words to this song are...

Yikes,,,,bet she knows all the words to the McDonalds jingle

ShutDown24
01-20-2009, 12:15 PM
Well I didn't really hear the boos on television so it mustn’t have been too strong of a surge. I was actually going to be at the inauguration today, we have a friend who works for the government (In what job I'm not really sure) and he offered us to get tickets. Unfortunately it didn't work out and we decided not to go. My point being, if I would have been there and anyone booed either President Bush or President Obama I can tell you right now that there would have been at least words exchanged between myself and them. You don't do that. Period.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
01-20-2009, 12:45 PM
These are the same idiots that think Obama is God. Will they boo him when he reveals that he will not be offering stimulus checks this term or can't pay off your mortgage?

LambertIsGod58
01-20-2009, 12:52 PM
Do you think it was necessarily booing the office or the job he's done over the last 8 years? I'm a registered Republican, but I honestly feel like Bush has some responsibility for the mess we are in.

kittenfantastico76
01-20-2009, 01:03 PM
I was very disappointed to hear boos, I could have sworn I heard people singing "Nannah nah, nah - good-bye" as well but I'm not positive... in any case RUDE!

I was just as disappointed when McCain addressed the nation after the election was called and his supporters booed Obama, I think he handled that rather well, with dignity, and he showed them they should behave the same way...

I was moved by the speech, and I am hopeful for the future - as with any president he has 4 years to make the US a better place, let's hope he can handle it.

Regardless of the party you prefer, we're all in this together and we're all hoping he doesn't F-up the country, regardless of who we voted for, am I right? 4 Years, time will tell.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-20-2009, 01:06 PM
Do you think it was necessarily booing the office or the job he's done over the last 8 years? I'm a registered Republican, but I honestly feel like Bush has some responsibility for the mess we are in.

It is irresponsible for a person to make the distinction between the "man" and the "office"...
Everyone has the right to an opinion...everyone has a right to voice an opinion...but when a person does not show the maturity or intelligence to pick the correct time and place they show why "Civics" should be taught in school.

Its one thing for me to be talking to you personally..or talking on a message board about a past,current or future President...But to PUBLICLY boo a President shows that a person does not have the common sense to not treat the elected Representative of our country...as more than the Quarterback of an opposing tream.

Godfather
01-20-2009, 01:06 PM
I think Bush sucked, but it was still classless to boo him. If you don't like a politician, just golf clap or sit on your hands. Fortunately there weren't that many--there wsn't enough booing to be audible over the TV broadcast. Your buddy was probably just close to the small group of asshats who did it.

I didn't know J-Mac got booed on SNL. I'm surprised because Palin got a warm reception from the crowd and she's a much bigger target of hatred from the Obamatons.

Hawk Believer
01-20-2009, 01:07 PM
I could have sworn I heard people singing "Nannah nah, nah - good-bye" as well but I'm not positive... in any case RUDE!


I thought I heard the exact same thing when Bush was introduced. So we are either right or sharing the same delusion.

I am no fan of Bush, but that stuff was dissapointing to hear on a day like today.

kittenfantastico76
01-20-2009, 01:10 PM
I thought I heard the exact same thing when Bush was introduced. So we are either right or sharing the same delusion.

I am no fan of Bush, but that stuff was dissapointing to hear on a day like today.

Good - I was worried I was losing my mind or that my brain was being disrespectful vs. my mouth! I make jokes about Bush, I don't HATE the guy, I just wasn't a huge fan of him as president - if he wanted to invite me to the ranch for steaks and beers, and to shoot some guns, I'd be all for it.

KeiselPower99
01-20-2009, 01:15 PM
Very classy America. We just keep topping ourselves.

revefsreleets
01-20-2009, 01:29 PM
He also told me the crowd made quacking noises when they introduced Cheney.

Real nice. Klass with a capital K...

Steelcitygal87
01-20-2009, 01:36 PM
I was very disappointed to hear boos, I could have sworn I heard people singing "Nannah nah, nah - good-bye" as well but I'm not positive... in any case RUDE!

I was just as disappointed when McCain addressed the nation after the election was called and his supporters booed Obama, I think he handled that rather well, with dignity, and he showed them they should behave the same way...

I was moved by the speech, and I am hopeful for the future - as with any president he has 4 years to make the US a better place, let's hope he can handle it.

Regardless of the party you prefer, we're all in this together and we're all hoping he doesn't F-up the country, regardless of who we voted for, am I right? 4 Years, time will tell.

I am a Republican and voted for McCain. I do, however, respect Obama as he is now the President of the United States. What is going to make me angry(because I see it coming) is...whatever problems Obama encounters.. ...the blame will always be turned back on Bush, somehow, someway.

People wanted a change..okay...but as the saying goes...be careful what you wish for. You are right, the next 4 years will tell the tale.

Edman
01-20-2009, 01:58 PM
Bush was a bum and he did a terrible job as President. Still, he didn't deserve to be booed. Just give him silence. That will get your point across without being assholes.

When Obama sucks, he will be booed. Sure more people will come along with more excuses than the Bush supporters, but he will be booed. It's going to take a tall order for that to happen, though.

Godfather
01-20-2009, 02:00 PM
Maybe some, but I blame the people who signed the dotted line for a house they couldn't afford, and the banks for giving them the money, when they should have never qaulified. Not to mention the delusional appraisers.

My dad has a little 2 bedroom 2 bath house out in the middle of no where, he paid $100,000 for the land, and to build the house completely. The bank appraised it at $350,000. NO WAY is it worth anything close to that.

Don't forget the Wall Street idiots who bundled those risky loans into securities and knowingly and falsely passed them off as safe investments. And the executives at places like Bear Stearns who took on ridiculous leverage rations.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-20-2009, 02:25 PM
Bush was a bum and he did a terrible job as President. Still, he didn't deserve to be booed. Just give him silence. That will get your point across without being assholes.

When Obama sucks, he will be booed. Sure more people will come along with more excuses than the Bush supporters, but he will be booed. It's going to take a tall order for that to happen, though.

It will take a tall order for the new President to be criticized....I will not bad-talk President Obama...but the Media an the Unions that have now prostituted themselves to the Democratic party deserve all the criticism the country can muster. They NEED to keep quiet...since they threw ethics away to further an agenda...but they wont...I'm sure they will play ignorant of any fault in the next several years and use the social victimization card at every turn.

SteelCurtain7
01-20-2009, 04:35 PM
Do you think it was necessarily booing the office or the job he's done over the last 8 years? I'm a registered Republican, but I honestly feel like Bush has some responsibility for the mess we are in.

Does it really matter? Disrespect is disrespect.

I also agree with some of your points. I'm debating the same thing with some "let's give Obama a chance, people" folks. Many of them are the same folks who heckled, mocked, and jeered W for his (mis?)handling of the economy, his stance on the war in Iraq, etc. Yet they now feel they hold the morally superior high ground because "their" guy has been sworn in. :banging: IMO, they're hypocrites, one and all. :mad:

Cape Cod Steel Head
01-20-2009, 05:03 PM
He also told me the crowd made quacking noises when they introduced Cheney.

Real nice. Klass with a capital K...

Now that's funny!:rofl:

PisnNapalm
01-20-2009, 05:16 PM
My buddy is at the inauguration. He's been to the last few. He said this is the first he's ever heard the crowd overtly boo the outgoing President.

I think that's shameful and very low rent. The man may have made decisions that people didn't like, but it's disrespectful to the office to boo.

I personally think it taints this otherwise historic day...

That aside, I wish Barrack Obama all the luck in the World. We are in a big mess and we need to get out of it...

Nevermind... I'd probably get banned for airing my real comments.

Suffice to say we are screwed as a nation now more than ever. Bush did not create the problems.... A Democrat controlled congress did. Don't ever forget who pushed the banks to give out subprime loans. Obama was part of it too...:doh:

cubanstogie
01-20-2009, 06:04 PM
I am a Republican and voted for McCain. I do, however, respect Obama as he is now the President of the United States. What is going to make me angry(because I see it coming) is...whatever problems Obama encounters.. ...the blame will always be turned back on Bush, somehow, someway.

People wanted a change..okay...but as the saying goes...be careful what you wish for. You are right, the next 4 years will tell the tale.

People want more than change. They want the rock star Obama to bail them out. Its called no accountability, Bush made many mistakes some due to the same intel that Dems believed as well, some just poor judgement and stubbornness. But to be blamed for the mess of our economy and social security, healthcare etc is ludicrous. I would have hated to see John Kerry in the white house when 9/11 hit. He would have sent Jane Fonda to middle east for peace talks. If people get off their butts and work hard, make conservative money decisions instead of trying to get rich quick half this mess wouldn't be happening. Its called greed and laziness.

LambertIsGod58
01-20-2009, 07:20 PM
Does it really matter? Disrespect is disrespect.

I also agree with some of your points. I'm debating the same thing with some "let's give Obama a chance, people" folks. Many of them are the same folks who heckled, mocked, and jeered W for his (mis?)handling of the economy, his stance on the war in Iraq, etc. Yet they now feel they hold the morally superior high ground because "their" guy has been sworn in. :banging: IMO, they're hypocrites, one and all. :mad:


Don't get me wrong here....I'm not condoning what these people did. I merely am suggesting why they did it. I voted for Bush twice. Not real happy how it turned out. Not that it has anything to do with this thread, but why have we continued to pump OUR money in to Iraq when you continue to have a surplus? Why are the American people flipping the bill for their "freedom" when they seem to have the money to at least be paying part of their way?

SteelersMongol
01-20-2009, 10:36 PM
My buddy is at the inauguration. He's been to the last few. He said this is the first he's ever heard the crowd overtly boo the outgoing President.

I think that's shameful and very low rent. The man may have made decisions that people didn't like, but it's disrespectful to the office to boo.

I personally think it taints this otherwise historic day...

That aside, I wish Barrack Obama all the luck in the World. We are in a big mess and we need to get out of it...

AGREED. This is a shame. :shake01:

SteelCityMan786
01-20-2009, 11:03 PM
These are the same idiots that think Obama is God. Will they boo him when he reveals that he will not be offering stimulus checks this term or can't pay off your mortgage?

He will end up being voted out if that happens.

GBMelBlount
01-20-2009, 11:15 PM
Don't get me wrong here....I'm not condoning what these people did. I merely am suggesting why they did it. I voted for Bush twice. Not real happy how it turned out. Not that it has anything to do with this thread, but why have we continued to pump OUR money in to Iraq when you continue to have a surplus? Why are the American people flipping the bill for their "freedom" when they seem to have the money to at least be paying part of their way?

I think you're being a little myopic Lambert. Right or wrong he stayed the course despite the criticism from the cut and run lefties. We are winning and have not been attacked on our soil since. I respect him for that. Why are you not real happy with how things turned out? Because the government is overspending? I agree, but the problem is MUCH larger than Bush. Now we have a president who thinks the government on steroids is the solution and a largely uneducated constituency that agrees with him. Be careful what you ask for my friend...:drink:

Godfather
01-20-2009, 11:59 PM
Nevermind... I'd probably get banned for airing my real comments.

Suffice to say we are screwed as a nation now more than ever. Bush did not create the problems.... A Democrat controlled congress did. Don't ever forget who pushed the banks to give out subprime loans. Obama was part of it too...:doh:

The D's just took over Congress two years ago and they've done nothing in that time. And Bush was POTUS for eight years, most of them with his own party in the majority. Trying to absolve him is ridiculous. If it happens after you've been in charge for 7 1/2 years, you own it.

The economic crisis goes well beyond subprime loans. And banks weren't just doing it because of government pressure...brokers were aggressively marketing exotic loans to all segments of society. That's because of securitization, which leaves someone other than the irresponsible lender holding the bag. It was also because of the bubble market, which the lenders were counting on to rescue them when the monthly payments skyrocketed.

You're right that Obama was part of it, and because of that I won't cut him any slack for the mess he inherited today. But who signed the Wall Street bailout? W. I guess that's everyone else's fault but his too.

steelreserve
01-21-2009, 12:43 AM
You know what? I 100% understand why people would boo him. That guy has personally pissed off millions of people in this country and made us look bad around the world. I was in London a couple of years ago, and as soon as people found out I was American, I would get grilled about what I thought about Bush and how we could let this crap go on. It was downright embarrassing.

Personally, I remember back in the California energy crisis, when my own power bill doubled or tripled and they still couldn't keep the lights on, and Bush basically told us to suck it. Multiply that with the bungled handling of Katrina, the unpopularity of the war, the quadrupling of gas prices, and it's perfectly clear why people are downright angry. I probably wouldn't have actually booed him if I'd been there, but I spent way too long giving him the benefit of the doubt and he let us down almost every time.

I don't think the issue is so much that people don't respect the office of the president as much as they feel Bush made a mockery of it.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
01-21-2009, 12:54 AM
You know what? I 100% understand why people would boo him. That guy has personally pissed off millions of people in this country and made us look bad around the world. I was in London a couple of years ago, and as soon as people found out I was American, I would get grilled about what I thought about Bush and how we could let this crap go on. It was downright embarrassing.

Personally, I remember back in the California energy crisis, when my own power bill doubled or tripled and they still couldn't keep the lights on, and Bush basically told us to suck it. Multiply that with the bungled handling of Katrina, the unpopularity of the war, the quadrupling of gas prices, and it's perfectly clear why people are downright angry. I probably wouldn't have actually booed him if I'd been there, but I spent way too long giving him the benefit of the doubt and he let us down almost every time.

I don't think the issue is so much that people don't respect the office of the president as much as they feel Bush made a mockery of it.

Bush didn't raise the gas prices. Remember? We are in Iraq for the oil :banging:

The bungled handling of Katrina was as much to fault of the local government as it is of the federal government.

People forget about the checks and balances system. If something goes wrong, it isn't all the president's fault. If something goes right, it isn't all the president's fault.

lmao at people complaining about Bush's deficit spending, they haven't seen anything yet :toofunny:

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
01-21-2009, 01:04 AM
There were 2 parties going on today...

1st...... Obama became our president
2nd..... End of Bush


8 years and Bush really did nothing for this country.......8 years and the world is the way it is today...

I just hope Obama changes things for real...... This is his chance...........and the Democrats chance..

If it doenst work........ Bring somebody new in..... But I really believe he will do much better that Bush

drizze99
01-21-2009, 01:12 AM
Maybe the Philly area is rubbing off on me, but if I was there today, I would have booed him too. I HATE Bush. Its just that simple.....

This is the greatest day in the history of the US... Bush sucked and I was happy to see him go.

cubanstogie
01-21-2009, 01:26 AM
You know what? I 100% understand why people would boo him. That guy has personally pissed off millions of people in this country and made us look bad around the world. I was in London a couple of years ago, and as soon as people found out I was American, I would get grilled about what I thought about Bush and how we could let this crap go on. It was downright embarrassing.

Personally, I remember back in the California energy crisis, when my own power bill doubled or tripled and they still couldn't keep the lights on, and Bush basically told us to suck it. Multiply that with the bungled handling of Katrina, the unpopularity of the war, the quadrupling of gas prices, and it's perfectly clear why people are downright angry. I probably wouldn't have actually booed him if I'd been there, but I spent way too long giving him the benefit of the doubt and he let us down almost every time.

I don't think the issue is so much that people don't respect the office of the president as much as they feel Bush made a mockery of it.

mockery=clinton

steelreserve
01-21-2009, 01:37 AM
mockery=clinton

Different kind of mockery. Clinton looked bad personally. Bush had an arrogance and stubbornness in office that pissed people off around the world. Other countries' leaders literally did not take us seriously anymore. And sad to say it, but Bush being gone instantly restores a lot of our former credibility in foreign policy. That's probably one of the hard-to-put-your-finger-on things that people have been cheering about in all of this.

Listen, I'm not some rabid Obama fan. I didn't vote for him, and I think he's overrated. He's probably going to get way more credit than he deserves for an economy that's going to eventually recover on its own and a war that's winding down anyway. But I supported Bush as long as I felt reasonable doing, and he let us down over and over, in a way that Clinton didn't, the first Bush didn't, and Reagan didn't. End of story.

Preacher
01-21-2009, 01:49 AM
Different kind of mockery. Clinton looked bad personally. Bush had an arrogance and stubbornness in office that pissed people off around the world. Other countries' leaders literally did not take us seriously anymore. And sad to say it, but Bush being gone instantly restores a lot of our former credibility in foreign policy. That's probably one of the hard-to-put-your-finger-on things that people have been cheering about in all of this.

Listen, I'm not some rabid Obama fan. I didn't vote for him, and I think he's overrated. He's probably going to get way more credit than he deserves for an economy that's going to eventually recover on its own and a war that's winding down anyway. But I supported Bush as long as I felt reasonable doing, and he let us down over and over, in a way that Clinton didn't, the first Bush didn't, and Reagan didn't. End of story.

Yes and no...

The REAL reason (IMO) that credibility is restored is because many of those leaders think Obama is a liberal like them. It has nothing to do with BUSH, it has to do with BUSH as REPUBLICAN. Reagan was HATED around the world as well. But Maggie Thatcher was in and supported him, actually, just like Blair.

The real issue therefore, is that America didn't back off and engage in european duplicity in dealing with Iraq and other nations.

I for one, could care less what most of the European leaders think anymore. After all, the three biggest european nations (Russia is considered european--especially with Moscow in the west of russia) all were doubling dealing behind our backs with Iraq.... and we are supposed to TRUST and CARE what they think?

Really? How often do you allow yourself to be stabbed in the back?

steelreserve
01-21-2009, 02:04 AM
Yes and no...

The REAL reason (IMO) that credibility is restored is because many of those leaders think Obama is a liberal like them. It has nothing to do with BUSH, it has to do with BUSH as REPUBLICAN. Reagan was HATED around the world as well. But Maggie Thatcher was in and supported him, actually, just like Blair.

The real issue therefore, is that America didn't back off and engage in european duplicity in dealing with Iraq and other nations.

I for one, could care less what most of the European leaders think anymore. After all, the three biggest european nations (Russia is considered european--especially with Moscow in the west of russia) all were doubling dealing behind our backs with Iraq.... and we are supposed to TRUST and CARE what they think?

Really? How often do you allow yourself to be stabbed in the back?

To that, I'll just say ... Bush was definitely not the statesman that Clinton, Bush Sr. or Reagan were. Not even close. He came off as deliberately antagonistic when it wasn't needed, and curiously prone to inaction when action would've helped. What happened domestically only reinforced that in the world's eyes.

I honestly don't value other countries' opinions of us terribly highly either, at least in and of themselves. But when it gets to the point where our foreign policy makes other countries defy us and act belligerently toward us just because, it's not productive or helpful. That's a huge area where Bush failed like few others before him, and I don't know how it can be ignored.

hindes204
01-21-2009, 02:13 AM
what happened domestically........how about this for what happened domestically, we havent been attacked in over 7 years because of the policies Bush put in place...how can you justify booing a man who has protected the country for years

Preacher
01-21-2009, 02:18 AM
To that, I'll just say ... Bush was definitely not the statesman that Clinton, Bush Sr. or Reagan were. Not even close. He came off as deliberately antagonistic when it wasn't needed, and curiously prone to inaction when action would've helped. What happened domestically only reinforced that in the world's eyes.

I honestly don't value other countries' opinions of us terribly highly either, at least in and of themselves. But when it gets to the point where our foreign policy makes other countries defy us and act belligerently toward us just because, it's not productive or helpful. That's a huge area where Bush failed like few others before him, and I don't know how it can be ignored.

But that is the issue... nations ALREADY acted belligerent toward us. 6 years in Clinton's administration, we were in the middle of problems with China. Yet, because of how Clinton was dealing with Israel, Israel sold a bunch of missiles and missile systems to China... basically thumbing their nose at as. It was during that same time that Russia, Germany, and France started double-dealing with Iraq.

I don't blame those on Clinton, just using them to prove the point that the world was already belligerent and double-dealing with America.

steelreserve
01-21-2009, 02:40 AM
what happened domestically........how about this for what happened domestically, we havent been attacked in over 7 years because of the policies Bush put in place...how can you justify booing a man who has protected the country for years

That's why I held my tongue and supported Bush for a number of years, giving him the benefit of the doubt for that. But there's more to "protecting our country" than what the president does, and when it comes down to it, I'm not so sure he did any better than should have been expected.

Bottom line, there are tens of thousands of people, from soldiers to intelligence agents to national guardsmen, to police and firefighters, to regular civilians who happened to be in the right place at the right time, who have worked their asses off to help protect us. And I'll be the first to take my hat off to all of them. I honestly don't know if Bush was responsible for their efforts -- maybe a little, but I've also known plenty of people who have joined the military or made some other contribution because of their own sense of duty after what happened on 9/11/2001. Just like Obama will probably get a lot of credit for being in the right place at the right time with the economy and the end of the Iraq war, Bush probably got a lot of credit for being in the right place at the right time during a surge of patriotism because of what happened to us.

As I said before, I don't think I'd actually boo the guy myself. But I am disappointed in how his presidency turned out overall, and we can probably do better.

steelreserve
01-21-2009, 02:48 AM
But that is the issue... nations ALREADY acted belligerent toward us. 6 years in Clinton's administration, we were in the middle of problems with China. Yet, because of how Clinton was dealing with Israel, Israel sold a bunch of missiles and missile systems to China... basically thumbing their nose at as. It was during that same time that Russia, Germany, and France started double-dealing with Iraq.

I don't blame those on Clinton, just using them to prove the point that the world was already belligerent and double-dealing with America.

Oh, it was. The world is an ugly place. There's usually a war going on somewhere at any given time, someone double-crossing us at any given time, and a serious threat of violence to us that escalates into a war every 20 years or so. Nothing can be done about that; it's just who we are, and it's a sad reflection on us as a species.

But the thing with past presidents since Vietnam, is that because of our overwhelming resources and superior positioning in world affairs, we were always at least able to fight those issues to a stalemate. Lately, we've gotten ourselves in a hole, the world is laughing at us, and we come off not standing proud but running like a dog with its tail between its legs. We've been at others' mercy militarily, economically, and perhaps most important, culturally.

Some of that will probably end just because of the image change that comes with someone new in charge. But we showed the world our ass, no doubt about it.

Leftoverhard
01-21-2009, 02:54 AM
Didn't hear the boo's on tv, but as "low-rent" as it might seem to boo Bush, he deserved it. This is real life, not some sort of theatrical production. The man took our trust and crushed it. He drove our country into the ground. He was an AWFUL failure as president. I have a lot of respect for his catlike reflexes and if I had to choose a former president to be on my football team, he would be the first round draft pick - but otherwise - for citizens of the USA to boo a very unpopular president as he left - not surprising, and certainly not uncalled for.

steelreserve
01-21-2009, 02:57 AM
dude, your sig's broken. You need to update it.

Preacher
01-21-2009, 03:43 AM
Oh, it was. The world is an ugly place. There's usually a war going on somewhere at any given time, someone double-crossing us at any given time, and a serious threat of violence to us that escalates into a war every 20 years or so. Nothing can be done about that; it's just who we are, and it's a sad reflection on us as a species.

But the thing with past presidents since Vietnam, is that because of our overwhelming resources and superior positioning in world affairs, we were always at least able to fight those issues to a stalemate. Lately, we've gotten ourselves in a hole, the world is laughing at us, and we come off not standing proud but running like a dog with its tail between its legs. We've been at others' mercy militarily, economically, and perhaps most important, culturally.

Some of that will probably end just because of the image change that comes with someone new in charge. But we showed the world our ass, no doubt about it.

Tail between our legs? Really?

In Iraq, the surge worked. Stability is coming.

In Afganistan, we have had more success than Britain or the USSR in the last century, and we did it WITHOUT the horrific things that the USSR has done.

We are the most stable economy in the world right now. I posted a couple months ago how nations are again putting money HERE because this is the best place for it.

Culturally, we are a melting pot. I am not sure what else you mean there.

GBMelBlount
01-21-2009, 07:00 AM
Yes and no...

The REAL reason (IMO) that credibility is restored is because many of those leaders think Obama is a liberal like them. It has nothing to do with BUSH, it has to do with BUSH as REPUBLICAN. Reagan was HATED around the world as well. But Maggie Thatcher was in and supported him, actually, just like Blair.

The real issue therefore, is that America didn't back off and engage in european duplicity in dealing with Iraq and other nations.

I for one, could care less what most of the European leaders think anymore. After all, the three biggest european nations (Russia is considered european--especially with Moscow in the west of russia) all were doubling dealing behind our backs with Iraq.... and we are supposed to TRUST and CARE what they think?

Really? How often do you allow yourself to be stabbed in the back?

:applaudit:

GBMelBlount
01-21-2009, 07:07 AM
There were 2 parties going on today...

8 years and Bush really did nothing for this country.......8 years and the world is the way it is today...

I just hope Obama changes things for real...... This is his chance...........and the Democrats chance..

If it doenst work........ Bring somebody new in..... But I really believe he will do much better that Bush

8 years and the world is the way it is today? This is a perfect example. The world was perfect until Bush took office and ruined everything, right? At least that what the left wing media has convinced the majority of people. Congrats on your good grades and education BBFW, but seriously, what courses did you take? Did you take any economics?

What exactly do you think Obama will do better than Bush? Implement government solutions? THAT is what is ruining our country! He is already backpedaling on his campaign promises. All he did was run as the Anti Bush and promise to take from the evil greedy rich and give it to the exploited and more deserving and you took it hook line and sinker. Not because YOU ever said his positions made sense, but because you didn't Like Bush....... Wow.

HometownGal
01-21-2009, 07:51 AM
Word of the day:

CLASSLESS

I was watching Dr. Phil the other day and he had 4 college students majoring in political science as guests - 2 Demos and 2 GOP'ers. The female GOP'er stated that around her campus prior to the election, students were worshipping Obama more like a rock star than a presidential candidate and when she would ask any of them how they felt about Obama's platform, they would simply say they were voting for him because they wanted "change". Didn't seem to matter what type of change or how those changes were going to affect them.

While I was in the hospital, I really had nothing much to do except to watch TV and I watched a couple of specials on Obama and found, surprisingly, that I agreed with some of the things he wants to do. Though I am not 100% confident in him as a leader, he is slowly growing on me and I will stand behind him, as he is the President of the country I love so much. :usa: As for his wife - I just can't accept her as a First Lady for a variety of reasons I won't post here.

xfl2001fan
01-21-2009, 08:20 AM
Ultimately, he's the Commander In Chief. So he get's my respect/backing...though (admittedly) through narrow/watchful eyes.

As for Booing the former CIC...just shows how stupid some people can be. However, I won't let it bring me down. I stand ready to defend their right to be stupid.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-21-2009, 08:44 AM
To those who booed the former President and to those who thought he "deserved" it or that said they would have booed him also....

...Grow the F**K up...seriously.

....The tone of this discussion was that ALL Presidents...on BOTH sides of the aisle deserve to not be publicly booed or ridiculed.

ANYONE who thinks it is okay or deserved... has a serious maturity problem. I learned from my parents (who were Dems by the way) and then it was impressed upon me while in the service that you respect the office, the position or uniform...not the man.

My 15 year old son understands the concept....My 13 year old daughter understands the concept...Shame that "grownups" (who no doubt will DEMAND respect for the new President) have not learned that lesson.

Like HTG, I may not agree with everything that Obama has done or may do...but there are certain aspects of his demeanor that I am starting to appreciate. But even when I dont agree with him I will show him the respect due the office. So dont worry...It appears that those on the other side of the aisle will show enough maturity to make up for those of you who are lacking.

Sorry if this comes across as full of venom...but the hypocrisy of the left sometimes TRULY gets under my skin.

hindes204
01-21-2009, 09:18 AM
To those who booed the former President and to those who thought he "deserved" it or that said they would have booed him also....

...Grow the F**K up...seriously.

....The tone of this discussion was that ALL Presidents...on BOTH sides of the aisle deserve to not be publicly booed or ridiculed.

ANYONE who thinks it is okay or deserved... has a serious maturity problem. I learned from my parents (who were Dems by the way) and then it was impressed upon me while in the service that you respect the office, the position or uniform...not the man.

My 15 year old son understands the concept....My 13 year old daughter understands the concept...Shame that "grownups" (who no doubt will DEMAND respect for the new President) have not learned that lesson.

Like HTG, I may not agree with everything that Obama has done or may do...but there are certain aspects of his demeanor that I am starting to appreciate. But even when I dont agree with him I will show him the respect due the office. So dont worry...It appears that those on the other side of the aisle will show enough maturity to make up for those of you who are lacking.

Sorry if this comes across as full of venom...but the hypocrisy of the left sometimes TRULY gets under my skin.

WELL SAID LLT, WELL SAID :thumbsup:

revefsreleets
01-21-2009, 09:35 AM
OK, Irony check. For all of you who bashed Bush, and called him a failure, and said he ruined our trust and trashed the Country, etc, etc, I have terrible terrible news for you.

Obama is going to maintain and in some instances even expand on many of Bush's "failed policies". So you are going to have to make a choice. You can:

A) Grow up and face reality. Bush was not the demon you thought him to be.
B) Bury your head in the sand and pretend that Obama created all these policies himself and that what was awful yesterday is okay today.

I'd love to think that reasoned and logical people could do the former, but this blind hatred for the man will most likely lead to most of you opting for B. I literally cannot WAIT for the day when I start seeing the left claiming Bush's victories as their own. There will be more than one of us waiting to point you hypocrisy out.

TackleMeBen
01-21-2009, 10:14 AM
we just showed the world how stupid we really are by booing an out going president. whether you liked bush or not he was the president. as many have said, you may not have agreed with his policies but you should respect the office... respect is something that this generation doesnt seem to have. they think everything should be handed to them. i didnt vote for obama, but i do hope that he does well and make this country strong and respected once again... and he better watch out for russia. they cant be trusted.

Leftoverhard
01-21-2009, 11:46 AM
dude, your sig's broken. You need to update it.


Thanks, done.

And just a short response to those of you who think booing GWB was somehow classless, etc. He was our president for 8 years. By the end, most of us were just happy to see him go - I personally just waved and wondered silently if they were really gone - and I say they because when I hear the words, George W. Bush, I don't think of the man we saw get on that helicopter and ride off into the haze - I see Cheney, Rumsfeld, all those guys who helped make this world a more dangerous place than ever. At this point, Bush represents a very bad bunch of people and actions.
When people Boo someone in public, it's because they want that actual person to hear their voice. Bush and his buddies have given the American people the finger for 8 straight years, so a few people booed him while he left. I didn't boo him - and I don't condone that sort of thing - but I'm hesitant to judge those who did.
Wee boo teams and players on teams for bad performances. Bad performance Bush Administration. He's gone, let's move on.

Hammer67
01-21-2009, 11:48 AM
Bush didn't raise the gas prices. Remember? We are in Iraq for the oil :banging:

The bungled handling of Katrina was as much to fault of the local government as it is of the federal government.

People forget about the checks and balances system. If something goes wrong, it isn't all the president's fault. If something goes right, it isn't all the president's fault.

lmao at people complaining about Bush's deficit spending, they haven't seen anything yet :toofunny:


The problem with any president is that they get too much praise when things go right and too much blame when they go wrong. I think Bush has suffered in media popularity polls because he stuck to his guns and did what HE thought was right to protect the country's interests. I don't get the impression that he was a bad person, or even a horrible president. I think you see a lot of delusional Bush hatred out there that just filters any view of the man.

The problems we faced and are facing are not all his doing. There is a collective blame for the financial crisis. A good portion of it chalked up to uninformed or greedy homebuyers and consumers.

Other aspects of his administration won't be able to be intelligently judged until we get a little hindsight.

I hope Obama does well...and I hope he doesn't cater to extremists on the left...just like Bush did not always cater to the right.

I do predict a "delusional hatred" for Obama from some on the right, now. And, for Bush haters to say anything against it would be hypocritical.

Hammer67
01-21-2009, 11:54 AM
Thanks, done.

And just a short response to those of you who think booing GWB was somehow classless, etc. He was our president for 8 years. By the end, most of us were just happy to see him go - I personally just waved and wondered silently if they were really gone - and I say they because when I hear the words, George W. Bush, I don't think of the man we saw get on that helicopter and ride off into the haze - I see Cheney, Rumsfeld, all those guys who helped make this world a more dangerous place than ever. At this point, Bush represents a very bad bunch of people and actions.
When people Boo someone in public, it's because they want that actual person to hear their voice. Bush and his buddies have given the American people the finger for 8 straight years, so a few people booed him while he left. I didn't boo him - and I don't condone that sort of thing - but I'm hesitant to judge those who did.
Wee boo teams and players on teams for bad performances. Bad performance Bush Administration. He's gone, let's move on.


While I am no Bush fan, I would argue this point with you until I was blue in the face. This, I believe, will go down as one of his greatest accomplishments.

This defines the differences of the left and the right. The left believes that we (Americans) are generally at fault whenever a section of the world dislikes us. The right, believes the opposite.

Bush did something that I wish Clinton would of after 1993...go after terrorism and not sit back and worry about the Muslim world's reaction. And, he did not see another terrorist attack on US soil during his presidency. Keep in mind that this is the same part of the world that was incensed over a cartoon. So, really....who cares what they think...they were unhappy before Bush took office.

revefsreleets
01-21-2009, 12:05 PM
This is the problem with blind hate: It makes people blind.

TheSteelCurtain
01-21-2009, 01:34 PM
I didnt like Bush by any means. I was a avid Obama Supporter. But there is a time and a place for everything and this was not it.

People still think President's make all the choices. Bush did that and Bush did this. Bush or any president for that matter cant really do a whole lot of anything by themselves. (aside from pardons and final executive orders)

I do feel Bush didnt do a great job of Cabinet appointments and this really hurt his administration. If there is one thing Obama supporters should know its that we all needed to come together on this. So booing your ex president on TV is not the best way to get this going.

People like to complain about the way things are and how bad they are. Buy day to day my life was pretty good with Clinton and it was pretty good with Bush.

CantStop85
01-21-2009, 01:47 PM
7HjokWpIask

TheSteelCurtain
01-21-2009, 01:58 PM
I didnt hear the chant. Somewhat disrespectful but thats some funny shit.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-21-2009, 02:57 PM
We boo teams and players on teams for bad performances.

When the outgoing President QB's the Ravens...your point will be valid.

I dont think I can explain the ignorance of such an act to those that dont see a difference between the public level of respect one gives a former President and that of an opposing sports team.

...and to be honest if I were out shopping, and I saw Joe Flacco across the mall....I would have to be a grade schooler to cup my hands to my mouth and start booing. Its improper, ...and immature. Now times that by ten....I was not a fan of Bill Clinton ...but I would never bring myself down to the level of an ignorant hill-jack , by booing him in public.

TheSteelCurtain
01-21-2009, 03:06 PM
I wouldnt boo flacco i would ask him to sign my steelers super bowl 43 shirt.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-21-2009, 03:12 PM
I wouldnt boo flacco i would ask him to sign my steelers super bowl 43 shirt.

:rofl::rofl:

I'd give him a pair of tweezers to trim back that caterpillar above his eyes!

Vis
01-21-2009, 03:48 PM
Bush has been very gracious and deserved the same. But Obama can't control the idiots on his side anymore than Bush could control those on his. That being said, I won't buy Bush's eventual book. Besides the fact that Cheney will redact whole chapters, graciousness only goes so far.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-21-2009, 03:54 PM
Bush has been very gracious and deserved the same. But Obama can't control the idiots on his side anymore than Bush could control those on his.

Agreed....Noone should blame the current President for the lack of manners and intelligence of the Morons in the crowd.

Preacher
01-21-2009, 06:02 PM
Agreed....Noone should blame the current President for the lack of manners and intelligence of the Morons in the crowd.

Very true.

But McCain/Palin were blamed for theirs.

Vis
01-21-2009, 06:46 PM
they were inciting theirs

CaliStillersFan
01-21-2009, 07:20 PM
I loved watching Cheney get rolled out in a wheelchair...how fitting. :)

GBMelBlount
01-21-2009, 08:32 PM
I loved watching Cheney get rolled out in a wheelchair...how fitting. :)

Fitting? What do you mean fitting? I seriously hope you're not being an *** ****.

hindes204
01-21-2009, 08:42 PM
"how fitting"....your just as classy as those *** ***** who were yelling at President Bush

Preacher
01-21-2009, 08:45 PM
they were inciting theirs

:coffee:

Preacher
01-21-2009, 08:47 PM
I loved watching Cheney get rolled out in a wheelchair...how fitting. :)

:doh:

Polamalu Princess
01-21-2009, 09:13 PM
I loved watching Cheney get rolled out in a wheelchair...how fitting. :)

I do not care who you support, the Democrats, Republicans or whatever party - that comment was just mean and not acceptable by any means. It sickens me that any person would make a joke to our outgoing VP that hurt his back while moving boxes on such an important day. He has had health issues and was blessed and fortunate just to make the swearing in of our new President. Shameful.

cubanstogie
01-21-2009, 09:20 PM
I do not care who you support, the Democrats, Republicans or whatever party - that comment was just mean and not acceptable by any means. It sickens me that any person would make a joke to our outgoing VP that hurt his back while moving boxes on such an important day. He has had health issues and was blessed and fortunate just to make the swearing in of our new President. Shameful.

When libs do it,its ok they are just joking we need to lighten up. As we all no, libs are the biggest hypocrites, when the tables are turned most conservatives are mean spirited, holier than though, and have no compassion for people who aren't like them. I agree PP it is classless, I am surprised you expected more from them I surely don't.

hindes204
01-21-2009, 09:41 PM
When libs do it,its ok they are just joking we need to lighten up. As we all no, libs are the biggest hypocrites, when the tables are turned most conservatives are mean spirited, holier than though, and have no compassion for people who aren't like them. I agree PP it is classless, I am surprised you expected more from them I surely don't.

I do find it funny that conservatives are seen as mean spirited with no hearts, but the libs get a pass because "it was just a joke"....they re the joke

CaliStillersFan
01-22-2009, 01:11 AM
WOW go right at the libs funny :) I'm a libertarian and far more conservative than any republican I know. If you don't understand a joke about Cheney you must have been asleep over the past 8 years. The man left office with a something like a 11% approval rating. Hmm I wonder why? Turn off the cable news Jeez.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
01-22-2009, 05:16 AM
Yes, because cable news is the most fair and balanced way to get your political news,

Do you think Bush was bad, or did someone (the media) tell you he was?

GBMelBlount
01-22-2009, 06:58 AM
WOW go right at the libs funny :) If you don't understand a joke about Cheney you must have been asleep over the past 8 years. The man left office with a something like a 11% approval rating. Hmm I wonder why?

Sorry Cali. Some things are hard to interpret online. But it's simply not funny or justified imo, regardless of approval ratings.

HometownGal
01-22-2009, 07:10 AM
WOW go right at the libs funny :) I'm a libertarian and far more conservative than any republican I know. If you don't understand a joke about Cheney you must have been asleep over the past 8 years. The man left office with a something like a 11% approval rating. Hmm I wonder why? Turn off the cable news Jeez.

I don't care if Cheney left with a ZERO approval rating - you don't make fun of someone with health issues. It's not funny and totally classless.

Texasteel
01-22-2009, 07:24 AM
Sorry Cali, that was low, uncalled for, and not needed here.
It was not the lest bit humorous either.

Hammer67
01-22-2009, 11:30 AM
WOW go right at the libs funny :) I'm a libertarian and far more conservative than any republican I know. If you don't understand a joke about Cheney you must have been asleep over the past 8 years. The man left office with a something like a 11% approval rating. Hmm I wonder why? Turn off the cable news Jeez.


Who cares? I'm a libertarian....and that was far from funny, joke or not. Poor taste, my friend.

Leftoverhard
01-22-2009, 12:05 PM
But, CaliStillersFan, it's been made very clear that you can make fun of retarded people and gay people here - and feel absolutely free to really express yourself in that respect. Fire away!

GBMelBlount
01-22-2009, 12:11 PM
But, CaliStillersFan, it's been made very clear that you can make fun of retarded people and gay people here - and feel absolutely free to really express yourself in that respect. Fire away!

I must have missed that Leftover. If someone did do that, which you wouldn't have brought that up if someone hadn't, you have every right to let that person know you feel it is wrong imo, just as some have done on this thread.

fansince'76
01-22-2009, 12:13 PM
But, CaliStillersFan, it's been made very clear that you can make fun of retarded people and gay people here - and feel absolutely free to really express yourself in that respect. Fire away!

If you have a problem with the way this site is moderated, take it up with the board owner or STFU.

Leftoverhard
01-22-2009, 12:24 PM
If you have a problem with the way this site is moderated, take it up with the board owner or STFU.

Actually, I have no problem with the way the board is moderated. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy within. It's hard not to notice when people get bent out of shape about someone making a joke about Darth Cheney in a wheelchair, and when someone makes a joke (and posts a picture to go with it) of a retarded kid. Or a racist thing. Or another Tom Brady is gay joke.
Funny how I voice my opinion about this unpopular topic (hypocrisy), having nothing to do with moderators - and here you are, to tell me to STFU.
My opinion on how things should be run isn't even an issue here.

fansince'76
01-22-2009, 12:38 PM
Actually, I have no problem with the way the board is moderated. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy within. It's hard not to notice when people get bent out of shape about someone making a joke about Darth Cheney in a wheelchair, and when someone makes a joke (and posts a picture to go with it) of a retarded kid. Or a racist thing. Or another Tom Brady is gay joke.
Funny how I voice my opinion about this unpopular topic (hypocrisy), having nothing to do with moderators - and here you are, to tell me to STFU.
My opinion on how things should be run isn't even an issue here.

Oh, you mean like the way you got all bent out of shape about a "Tom Brady is gay" comment made in the Blast Furnace and calling it "immature," but yet commenting on the booing of Bush and equating it to booing a sports team one doesn't like and saying he deserved it?

When it comes to hypocrisy, folks in glass houses, you know?

revefsreleets
01-22-2009, 12:53 PM
It's interesting to note the Abraham Lincoln was absolutely HATED in his time by people of all colors and creeds, northerners and southerners, Republicans and Democrats (and Copperheads) alike. I mean, Bush is REVERED compared to the vile hatred people had for Lincoln.

History, obviously, brought to bear a different conclusion.

Not saying that Bush will end up being compared to Lincoln, but considering that we are STILL evaluating Washington's presidency, it seems a little silly to be ripping up Bush like some here are doing.

atlsteelers
01-22-2009, 01:25 PM
i would have thrown my shoe at bush while booing him.

atlsteelers
01-22-2009, 01:27 PM
I loved watching Cheney get rolled out in a wheelchair...how fitting. :)

he probally hurt his back sneaking out his classified energy council meeting minutes, or maybe it was the WMDs that he found in iraq, or maybe it was his torturing tools, or maybe a waterboard?

GBMelBlount
01-22-2009, 01:29 PM
i would have thrown my shoe at bush while booing him.

LOL. There is probably a lot of classless trash out there that would.

MasterOfPuppets
01-22-2009, 01:37 PM
It's interesting to note the Abraham Lincoln was absolutely HATED in his time by people of all colors and creeds, northerners and southerners, Republicans and Democrats (and Copperheads) alike. I mean, Bush is REVERED compared to the vile hatred people had for Lincoln.

History, obviously, brought to bear a different conclusion.

Not saying that Bush will end up being compared to Lincoln, but considering that we are STILL evaluating Washington's presidency, it seems a little silly to be ripping up Bush like some here are doing.but we weren't around to form our OWN opinions of washington.....:wink02:

MasterOfPuppets
01-22-2009, 01:38 PM
i would have thrown my shoe at bush while booing him.you'd have never hit him.....hell he dodged a professional shoe throwers assault.....i doubt if you'd stand a chance....:coffee:

Texasteel
01-22-2009, 02:40 PM
Actually, I have no problem with the way the board is moderated. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy within. It's hard not to notice when people get bent out of shape about someone making a joke about Darth Cheney in a wheelchair, and when someone makes a joke (and posts a picture to go with it) of a retarded kid. Or a racist thing. Or another Tom Brady is gay joke.
Funny how I voice my opinion about this unpopular topic (hypocrisy), having nothing to do with moderators - and here you are, to tell me to STFU.
My opinion on how things should be run isn't even an issue here.

If I gave a **** what you thought, I might be offended by that, but I don't so I'm not.

Preacher
01-22-2009, 06:46 PM
Actually, I have no problem with the way the board is moderated. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy within. It's hard not to notice when people get bent out of shape about someone making a joke about Darth Cheney in a wheelchair, and when someone makes a joke (and posts a picture to go with it) of a retarded kid. Or a racist thing. Or another Tom Brady is gay joke.
Funny how I voice my opinion about this unpopular topic (hypocrisy), having nothing to do with moderators - and here you are, to tell me to STFU.
My opinion on how things should be run isn't even an issue here.

Take the glasses off. I have seen these mods light up posters over the very issues you highlight. I remember a pic of a child who was deformed, and HTG ripped the poster and closed the thread, IMMEDIATELY.

If you can't see the difference between your schadenfreude over the failing health of another human being, and a joke about a football players sexual leanings, you seriously need to reconsider your priorities.

You want proof there is a difference? Do you see anyone now laughing about Brady? Do you see any Schadenfreude about him maybe being out another year? NO. Why? Because it is his HEALTH and his LIFE we are now talking about.

Do you really hate another human being enough to take joy in his suffering? Do you really want another human being to go through pain? Do you really think he is evil?

I guess it is really easy when everything is politically black and white to hate the other side.

hindes204
01-22-2009, 07:06 PM
^^^^^well said^^^^^^

CaliStillersFan
01-22-2009, 07:27 PM
Sorry my OWN opinions about Cheney started an argument here. I knew that Cheney only hurt his back. If the man was dying or suffering from something other than some back pain, I wouldn't have made the joke about him. I'm not that much of an ass.

I don't know about you all, but I don't hold our politicians in such high regard of some of you here, they are not gods, they are men. Those idiots do nothing that isn't in their own best interest. I am a veteran and I have seen our foreign policy in action with my own eyes so please don't tell me I must kiss someone's butt that I have absolutely no respect for. I don't believe all the crap the media sells the American people so blindly. The majority of media outlets in this country are propaganda machines, and unfortunately most people believe what they are told. I know my views are based on my own experiences and are much different than most peoples, so I will back out of this conversation now before this goes much further. But just remember that one of the founding principles on our constitution that myself and millions of others have put their lives in harm's way to secure is freedom of speech. I understand the big picture issues are not easy to talk about, but there is no reason to attack people that have extreme views that differ from your own. Without differing views life would be pretty boring.

Again sorry that my joke offended some of you.

Texasteel
01-22-2009, 08:08 PM
Sorry my OWN opinions about Cheney started an argument here. I knew that Cheney only hurt his back. If the man was dying or suffering from something other than some back pain, I wouldn't have made the joke about him. I'm not that much of an ass.

I don't know about you all, but I don't hold our politicians in such high regard of some of you here, they are not gods, they are men. Those idiots do nothing that isn't in their own best interest. I am a veteran and I have seen our foreign policy in action with my own eyes so please don't tell me I must kiss someone's butt that I have absolutely no respect for. I don't believe all the crap the media sells the American people so blindly. The majority of media outlets in this country are propaganda machines, and unfortunately most people believe what they are told. I know my views are based on my own experiences and are much different than most peoples, so I will back out of this conversation now before this goes much further. But just remember that one of the founding principles on our constitution that myself and millions of others have put their lives in harm's way to secure is freedom of speech. I understand the big picture issues are not easy to talk about, but there is no reason to attack people that have extreme views that differ from your own. Without differing views life would be pretty boring.

Again sorry that my joke offended some of you.

Believe it or not, there are several vets here, some have infact put our live on the line in one war or another. I personaly have a very low oppinion of most politicians, and trust them even less, but I refuse to poke fun at a mans or womans pain no matter what my oppinion of them is. Sorry but this is not about freedom of speach, this is about poor taste.

CaliStillersFan
01-22-2009, 08:18 PM
Believe it or not, there are several vets here, some have infact put our live on the line in one war or another. I personaly have a very low oppinion of most politicians, and trust them even less, but I refuse to poke fun at a mans or womans pain no matter what my oppinion of them is. Sorry but this is not about freedom of speach, this is about poor taste.

And that's why I apologized to those of you I offended. I may live in Cali but I'm not one of those "politically correct" ones ;).

GBMelBlount
01-22-2009, 08:23 PM
Sorry my OWN opinions about Cheney started an argument here. I knew that Cheney only hurt his back. If the man was dying or suffering from something other than some back pain, I wouldn't have made the joke about him.

Again sorry that my joke offended some of you.

Thank you for clarifying that Cali. The fact that I was ticked off about what you said doesn't mean I don't like you. I was just angry at how it came across to me. That's all.

I just have to forewarn you that if we ever tailgate the first thing I am going to do is throw a headlock on you and give you a wicked noogie for that one.

Preacher
01-22-2009, 08:34 PM
Thank you for clarifying that Cali. The fact that I was ticked off about what you said doesn't mean I don't like you. I was just angry at how it came across to me. That's all.

I just have to forewarn you that if we ever tailgate the first thing I am going to do is throw a headlock on you and give you a wicked noogie for that one.

And I concur...


Cali... I did not serve, but lost my father to Agent Orange through Leukemia. So I understand all to well what it means to have your life affected by decisions in Washington DC.

I dislike politicians in general. In general, I can say that 100 politicians at the bottom of the sea is a good start.

However, when we are talking about someone IN PARTICULAR, that is where I draw the line.

Also, it isn't about freedom of speech or lack thereof. You weren't arrested for what you said. There is no freedom of speech issue here. There is an issue of responsibility. You are responsible for what you say, and others have the freedom of speech to disagree with you as vehemently as you disagree with Bush-Cheney.

tony hipchest
01-22-2009, 08:53 PM
I dislike politicians in general. In general, I can say that 100 politicians at the bottom of the sea is a good start.

However, when we are talking about someone IN PARTICULAR, that is where I draw the line.

Also, it isn't about freedom of speech or lack thereof. You weren't arrested for what you said. There is no freedom of speech issue here. There is an issue of responsibility. You are responsible for what you say, and others have the freedom of speech to disagree with you as vehemently as you disagree with Bush-Cheney.uh preacher-

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/dick-thumb.gif

::laughing: j/k

i went to see bush campaign a few years back because presidents simply dont come to my town and i had never seen one in real life. i thought it was an honor, even though im not a fan. i woulda never thought about booing.

however i did laugh seeing that video and hearing all those people singing "na-na-na-na" as bush left on the copter. :chuckle:

hey, they sung it at that dudes funeral in "remember the titans" so it cant be that bad. :noidea:

Preacher
01-23-2009, 04:52 AM
u

i went to see bush campaign a few years back because presidents simply dont come to my town and i had never seen one in real life. i thought it was an honor, even though im not a fan. i woulda never thought about booing.


While he never came to my town, I felt the same way about Bill Clinton. Fact is, an American citizen should ALWAYS respect the office.

hindes204
01-23-2009, 05:12 AM
While he never came to my town, I felt the same way about Bill Clinton. Fact is, an American citizen should ALWAYS respect the office.

I also felt the same way about Clinton, unfortunately i was stationed in Little Rock for seven years so it was hard to avoid him and i agree, the office of the President should never be disrespected, regardless of how you feel about him. I have seen dispicable things from the far left nuts the past few years, and while i may tastefully question the policies Mr. Obama believes in, i will not disrepect him (the fact that he is my Commander in Cheif, and ultimately my boss, makes it impossible for me to disrepect him anyway), and thats how it should be

revefsreleets
01-23-2009, 09:34 AM
I think "offended" is the wrong word. Low class isn't offensive, it's a combination of embarassment (for those people) and disappointment that they don't know any better...

Preacher
01-23-2009, 03:06 PM
I also felt the same way about Clinton, unfortunately i was stationed in Little Rock for seven years so it was hard to avoid him and i agree, the office of the President should never be disrespected, regardless of how you feel about him. I have seen dispicable things from the far left nuts the past few years, and while i may tastefully question the policies Mr. Obama believes in, i will not disrepect him (the fact that he is my Commander in Cheif, and ultimately my boss, makes it impossible for me to disrepect him anyway), and thats how it should be

Exactly. BTW, we only live a few miles from each other. :ave you found any 4teeler hangouts yet?

lilyoder6
01-23-2009, 03:23 PM
here is an alright video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1R8vRB-qeU


ppl who boo'd bush and thought he was bad.. the worse as yet 2 come

HometownGal
01-23-2009, 11:39 PM
ppl who boo'd bush and thought he was bad.. the worse as yet 2 come

Well geez - Prez Obama is gonna pay off our car loans, our mortgages, give everyone free health care, and hold hands and sing Kumbaya with the third world countries who have hated us for decades. It still amazes me to hear some of the Obama supporters actually believing he is the second coming of Christ and can perform miracles overnight.

Like I said in my original post in this thread - I will support Mr. Obama because he is the elected leader of the country I love with all my heart. I am just going to watch and wait for some of these Freddie the Freeloaders to start ripping on Obama when they realize that the free rides they were expecting just aren't going to happen.

stillers4me
01-23-2009, 11:43 PM
Based on his comments and attitude his first week in office, I'm finding it extremely hard to have any respect for him.

I thought it would take a little longer than that.

augustashark
01-24-2009, 04:03 AM
Based on his comments and attitude his first week in office, I'm finding it extremely hard to have any respect for him.

I thought it would take a little longer than that.

I agree, I put the over under at one month. LOL, anyone that bet the under won big!:laughing:

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 10:51 AM
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism and personally, I think retirement with a little booing is better than he deserves. :coffee:

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism? That's odd. The highest form of dissent is usually considered be that of a traitor. They are put to death in most countries.... You might want to rethink that statement slash.....seriously.

Unfortunately, in the U.S. they are elected to VERY high offices in many cases.....

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 11:32 AM
Take it up with Howard Zinn. :popcorn:
And of course dissenters are considered traitors in most countries; they are the one element that keeps tyranny at bay and thus a natural enemy of the Despot. That's why we have freedom of speech and the press right there in our Constitution; this country is about freedom.
Another freebie: Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it. - George Santayana

Actually I'm taking it up with you because you mindlessly parroted the comment and tried to pass it off as your own fact. It is a ridiculous comment that is untrue. The ultimate form of dissent is aiding and abetting our enemies. Even recent presidents have done that and although you have stated that is the highest form of patriotism, I for some reason don't find that patriotic. I have no problem with people who intelligently discuss there differences of opinion, views and beliefs. What I don't like is people who rather than intelligently discuss issues using facts, make ridiculous statements that are simply baseless and untrue.

Polamalu Princess
01-24-2009, 11:43 AM
Based on his comments and attitude his first week in office, I'm finding it extremely hard to have any respect for him.

I thought it would take a little longer than that.

I was just talking to someone about the same thing. Every single time I pick up the paper or see the news, there is something that he has done that he said that he would not do. His latest comment about listening to the Republicans was something that he would do, but wanted to remind them who won in November. Very arrogant

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 12:40 PM
Again. Dissent being the highest form of patriotism is perhaps the most ridiculous, stupid and untrue comment I have ever heard. Fortunately you only parroted that remark and weren't the originator of it as I had originally thought......

Many traitors who aid and abet the enemy are dissenters I would imagine. For instance, it could be argued that when Clinton supposedly sold top secret military technology to the Chinese for large amounts of money, it was because he did not feel we should have a military edge that most Americans I would imagine believe that we should. Or perhaps he was just a just a greedy, unethical bastard. Again, I personally am NOT saying that he was. Or when he made the largest clean burning coal reserve in the world, located right here in the U.S., off limits so that the 2nd largest in the world (owned by a huge foreign donor to his campaign) would be much more profitable, well, again.....some may get the wrong idea. I honestly don't know if people could argue whether that is considered dissent, treason, or simply greed. I simply don't know the meanings of words well enough to tell you.

Or although I would never say this, I am sure some Americans would argue that Obama is both a dissenter and a traitor by his beliefs and what he may try to pass into law. After all, he is for partial birth-abortion in America. That allows for the killing of American born babies at birth. Being both adopted and American that is an important issue to me. Seriously, to shove a born baby partially back inside it's mother so that when they puncture it's skull, suck it's brains out and kill it, it is not considered murder.....wow.. No wonder terrorists are cheering, Obama is working to make it legal to murder American babies. Well not technically I guess. So I guess it's all good and I am wrong again. Oops, Sorry.

Sorry to ramble slash because you are most certainly right about the meaning of dissent. So please disregard everything I wrote, OK? I'll be honest with you, I never got a good grade in english in my life, I don't watch the news much or read the papers much either. Too depressing quite honestly. And I apologize for not knowing what dissent means. I will freely admit that I was wrong and you were definitely right. Thank you for correcting me! :drink:

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-24-2009, 12:58 PM
I find the boo-birds easier to respect than those who say they ought not publicly show their disapproval.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism and personally, I think retirement with a little booing is better than he deserves. :coffee:

That is BS!! ....

Let me set the record straight...

Serving your country is the highest form of Patriotism...and I would think that a person would be hard pressed to find a Veteran booing a past, present, or incoming President.
Compare your definition of "dissent" to the spilled blood of our soldiers....and you can take your dissent and a buck to buy a cup of coffee.

The laziest form of dissent is to get off your recliner...go to a rally and boo because "your team won".
What price did you pay for booing?....What did it cost you?....what did you sacrifice?...And you want to call it Patriotic?....Thats lame beyond words.

Get out of here with that lame fluff post....very possible the dumbest thing I have read since the election was complete.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-24-2009, 01:02 PM
P.S. 'Mindless' and 'Ridiculous' are not words that ought to appear in civilized discourse. Could you raise the bar a bit?

Using the words Mindless and Ridiculous are improper?......but publicly booing the out going President is proper etiquette.

.....seriously?

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-24-2009, 01:22 PM
][/B]How d' ya do? :wave:
/ decorated war vet
// you lose


I believe that personal attacks have no place in conversations about religion or politics. People believe what they believe, so keeping the discourse polite and friendly is already hard enough to pull off. Name-calling makes an already difficult job impossible.

Never said you were not a Vet...I said that serving you country trumps going to a rally and booing...nice diversion...read it again. Being a Vet who would boo a President simply shows you to be in the minority of the rest of us Vets. I find the fact that you are campaigning for the rudeness of others, yet demand civility ....very strange.

You are choosing to ignore my point of the laziness of this form of "dissent" that you respect....why?

You are also choosing to ignore my veiled question as to why it is improper to use words like ridiculous...yet you think it proper to boo an outgoing President.

Since you chose to quote Howard Zinn (He was the originator of the saying...in case you didnt know)...then you should know that anonymous booing was not what he meant by dissent.

By the way...I'm also a decorated Vet.
But one with a sense of Civic Pride.
You Lose.

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism and personally, I think retirement with a little booing is better than he deserves.





Get out of here with that lame fluff post....very possible the dumbest thing I have read since the election was complete.

LOL. That was possibly the most stupid and ridiculous statement I have ever heard and he liked it so much he lifted it from someone else! THAT is funny!!!! lol! And then when he's called on it, he becomes the "etiquette police" after he levels his venemous spew at Bush. What a hypocrite. :chuckle:

Preacher
01-24-2009, 04:18 PM
If Nixon and Carter, with the destruction they did to America in their various ways, go away with just retirement, then Bush, who was faced with something NEVER FACED BEFORE in American history. . . and succeeded in protecting us against terrorism by creating a different battle ground in the world, assuredly shoud be treated better than the previous two.

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 04:32 PM
GBMelBlount,
Here's another quote I like:

Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us.
-Thomas Jefferson :)

Thanks Slash! So are you saying that this statement:

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism and personally, I think retirement with a little booing is better than he deserves.

Is such an undeniable truth that it can only be ridiculed? :noidea:

Seriously, do do you still stand by your statement that dissent is the highest form of patriotism?

Because the fact that I am not be very good at making my point does not mean that your statement therefore is correct, because that is how your Jefferson quote comes across.

Preacher
01-24-2009, 04:41 PM
Preacher,

I see what you're getting at, but maybe the corrolary (they both shoulda been booed too) is more accurate.
AFA Bush "keeping us safe", suffice it to say that I swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
If some other guy takes that same oath and then refers to the Constitution as "just a Godd*&n piece of paper",<-- direct quote that certainly qualifies him as a domestic enemy in my book.


/ none of 'em have been worth a darn

See.

The distinction is that I think NONE of them should be boo'd. I thought America was above that.

It saddens me we are not.

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 05:35 PM
Again, to dissent may be a right, but to say it is the highest form of patriotism is flat out stupid. And to lift that phrase from someone else, try to pass it off as your own, and then suggest I argue with the person that you stole it from is even more embarassing.

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 05:43 PM
GBMelblount
Many traitors who aid and abet the enemy are dissenters I would imagine.


Goslash

Some A are B <> all B are A. Dissent isn't the same thing as treason.

Didn't we establish that Slash? What you just said here has nothing with my statement above. In fact you are stating something that has already been established and agreed upon. Not sure what your point is there. So is my statement above not true? Are you saying that my statement that many traitors who aid and abet the enemy are probably dissenters is wrong?

GBMelblount
Dissent being the highest form of patriotism is perhaps the most ridiculous, stupid and untrue comment I have ever heard.

Goslash27
Seeing as how it's a core principle to the foundation of this country and is reflected in our Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights, I find it curious that anybody who would ridicule such a statement would dare question anybody else's patriotism.

Another stupid statement. I never said it wasn't a right or that it shouldn't be. I just said that for you to state that dissent is the HIGHEST form of patriotism is the most stupid comment I have ever heard. And again, you lifted it from someone else and tried to pass it off like you were some genius. FLMAO!

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
01-24-2009, 05:51 PM
Bush sucked.... Glad hes gone... That is why everyone was booing.....

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 05:56 PM
Bush sucked.... Glad hes gone... That is why everyone was booing.....

So does Obama. He's an idiot and you voted for him.....

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
01-24-2009, 05:59 PM
So does Obama. He's an idiot and you voted for him.

Im not even gonna argue with you about Bush.... You will see that he will go down in history as one of the worse presidents ever.....
Im guessing you are a bush supporter because bush is shuch a great christian and he scares you with the axis of evil / homeland security talk.....

Heck...even reupblicans are trying to distance themselves from bush .... He was not a very good president.... (not saying he isnt a good man ....)

YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE CHANGES IN THE US..... Thanks to OBAMA!:applaudit:

Steelcitygal87
01-24-2009, 06:00 PM
So does Obama. He's an idiot and you voted for him.....

:toofunny: :applaudit:

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 06:22 PM
Im not even gonna argue with you about Bush.... You will see that he will go down in history as one of the worse presidents ever.....
Im guessing you are a bush supporter because bush is shuch a great christian and he scares you with the axis of evil / homeland security talk.....

Heck...even reupblicans are trying to distance themselves from bush .... He was not a very good president.... (not saying he isnt a good man ....)

YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE CHANGES IN THE US..... Thanks to OBAMA!:applaudit:

Change, lol!!!!!!! You should be embarassed BBFW. You have had some strong and very partisan opinions in the past and when I called you out on them you admitted you were very ignorant on the topic you were spewing crap about. Do you want me to dig up the post for you? The point is most of what Bush stands for makes way more sense than sh*t Obama spews that ignorant people accept with out question. So you know where you can stick your Christian comments right? If you want to, I will go through the stupidity of Obamas platform, issue by issue, and we can debate it. Otherwise shut your trap.

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 06:29 PM
I'm with you here. It's darkly amusing to watch Republicans try to cover for the guy when he is the sole reason we now have Obama in the White House and Dem majorities in both houses..



That's not true. It is also because the media blamed everything from $4 gas to the mortgage crisis on Bush and many of the people who voted for Obama are so ignorant that they bought it hook line and sinker. Factor in a poor education and lack of understanding of basic economics and tell everyone the reason their life sucks is because of Bush and being oppressed by capitalists, and that government will protect and take care of them, and what do you expect. Obama would have won by a landslide in most any socialist or communist country if they held an election. doesn't mean that is what is best for the country.

Saying Bush is the only reason is a flat out ridiculous and stupid comment.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
01-24-2009, 06:33 PM
Here is my old thread if you guys wanna read my rant... http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=28902&highlight=economics

MasterOfPuppets
01-24-2009, 06:46 PM
is it really fair to bash a guy who hasn't even made an executive decision yet ? :noidea: that just reeks of towing the party line.....:popcorn: at least the anti bush people have 8 yrs of material to form opinions about bush's administration....:noidea:

Preacher
01-24-2009, 06:54 PM
is it really fair to bash a guy who hasn't even made an executive decision yet ? :noidea: that just reeks of towing the party line.....:popcorn: at least the anti bush people have 8 yrs of material to form opinions about bush's administration....:noidea:


I think some of the frustration is that before he was even president, he broke campaign promises and changed economic policies...

There were many on right who were saying this is exactly what had to happen. Just like with Clinton.

Yet no one every calls these guys on it.

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 06:58 PM
Pot, meet kettle. :chuckle:
I'd wave off on the 'debate'. Save it for someone who can construct a coherent argument.

that's funny coming from a person that has made the two must stupid comments I have possibly ever heard. Perhaps you may be good in english and grammar but you suck at logic and reasoning. Some of your statements are pure stupidity.

Also, if you'd like to discuss anything of substance pertaining to Bush or Obama I welcome it.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
01-24-2009, 07:03 PM
I think some of the frustration is that before he was even president, he broke campaign promises and changed economic policies...

There were many on right who were saying this is exactly what had to happen. Just like with Clinton.

Yet no one every calls these guys on it.

I think the fair thing would be to not judge Obama until after his 1st 100 days in office.
They say a president can be judged in this amount of time.... so we still have time left before we all say what a bad president he is....
Bush was there for 8 years...... if you cant find anything wrong with him.... how will you ever find something on Obama

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 07:04 PM
I think some of the frustration is that before he was even president, he broke campaign promises and changed economic policies...

There were many on right who were saying this is exactly what had to happen. Just like with Clinton.

Yet no one every calls these guys on it.

It's more irritation Preach. That people like Bigbenfastwillie and Slash level sh*t at Bush that is more generalizations than substance, and then when the shoe is on the other foot they pull the etiquette card and poo poo us for not taking the high road. LOL.

MasterOfPuppets
01-24-2009, 07:08 PM
I think some of the frustration is that before he was even president, he broke campaign promises and changed economic policies...

There were many on right who were saying this is exactly what had to happen. Just like with Clinton.

Yet no one every calls these guys on it.
hey preacher... "read my lips...." ......:toofunny: ..... a politician lying ? well thats just unheard of....:coffee: .....i myself consider ANYTHING coming out of a poloticians mouth a lie,until they prove otherwise. :noidea:

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 07:09 PM
... says the guy who doesn't recognize a Venn statement.
/ I repeat: done with you. :wave:

Here's a venn statement.

You better learn how to venn dover and grab your ankles because we're going to be taking it in the a$$ from a government on steroids the next 4 to 8 years. :wave:

Preacher
01-24-2009, 07:09 PM
I think the fair thing would be to not judge Obama until after his 1st 100 days in office.
They say a president can be judged in this amount of time.... so we still have time left before we all say what a bad president he is....
Bush was there for 8 years...... if you cant find anything wrong with him.... how will you ever find something on Obama


Excuse me, your ignorance is showing. Please go review the NUMEROUS threads over the last 2 years where I speak of many issues I was upset with him about.

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 07:13 PM
There are things I was unhappy about as well. Like out of control government spending while he was at the helm.

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 07:15 PM
You act like I was gonna disagree :chuckle:
/ please stop typing at me now

You said you were leaving, now get off the political board and go back to the Steeler SUB forum damnit! :chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
01-24-2009, 07:19 PM
Here's a venn statement.

You better learn how to venn dover and grab your ankles because we're going to be taking it in the a$$ from a government on steroids the next 4 to 8 years. :wave:i've kinda felt like i was being violated everytime i've pumped gas the last few years......:doh:

Preacher
01-24-2009, 07:21 PM
There are things I was unhappy about as well. Like out of control government spending while he was at the helm.

Heck, I could throw quite a few out.

1. He failed to inform America concerning what was really happening in Iraq. He chose instead to spoon feed us, which backfired in his face. Had he come out and said, "We have won the war against Saddam's Iraq, but now we are involved in a three-way war between Iran, Al Qauda, and the new Iraqi govt," I think much of the American people would have been more accepting of what was happeneing.

2. Using social-conservative issues to drive elections, then dropping them. You NEVER heard about social issues that social conservatives liked, except in election year. It was an election year tactic and ticked me off. I was mad about it after the first off-year election.

3. Spending. I have no problem with him lowering taxes. I have a BIG problem with the increases in spending.


And no, this list isn't all-inclusive.

Polamalu Princess
01-24-2009, 07:31 PM
:crutches:It seems like all of you are pretty beat up here on this thread...is it safe to come back?:privateeyes::couch::grouphug:

Preacher
01-24-2009, 07:33 PM
Wow! Lookit all of the dissent! I'm proud of you guys!
/ demand better

It's not dissent. It is opinion, which while I held, I also kept in check instead of acting like a spoiled child. When given the opportunity, I voiced it.

MasterOfPuppets
01-24-2009, 07:42 PM
It's not dissent. It is opinion, which while I held, I also kept in check instead of acting like a spoiled child. When given the opportunity, I voiced it.
actually preacher, yours were more fact than opinion.....:popcorn:

GBMelBlount
01-24-2009, 08:06 PM
:crutches:It seems like all of you are pretty beat up here on this thread...is it safe to come back?:privateeyes::couch::grouphug:

Sorry honey, but you know how manly it makes me feel when I puff my chest in front of a computer screen.

I'll finish your foot rub after I do the dishes and housecleaning if that's OK with you...

It won't happen again...........dear. :sorry:

Polamalu Princess
01-24-2009, 08:43 PM
:funny::rofl:Sorry honey, but you know how manly it makes me feel when I puff my chest in front of a computer screen.

I'll finish your foot rub after I do the dishes and housecleaning if that's OK with you...

It won't happen again...........dear. :sorry::pin:That is right Papa Smurf it better not happen again!!!!!

HometownGal
01-24-2009, 09:31 PM
http://blog.cleveland.com/top_entertainment/2007/10/medium_barney.jpg

IronFan
01-25-2009, 09:04 AM
I believe the dissent as patriotism quote was originally intended to imply that if one is willing to dissent the current actions of government in favor of the foundation one is a true patriot.

Being called a traitor by your government isnít always a bad thing either. Our founding fathers were traitors, and for good reason.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-25-2009, 09:05 AM
That's definitely the distinction. I'm glad we're not "above" that, else we've allowed ourselves to become enslaved by our elected masters and this grand experiment in Democracy has failed.

Only if you equate the lack of civil decorum with patriotism...otherwise you just get a lazy miscontent.

I dont agree with Howard Zinn and think him to be a revisionist historian...but if your going to quote him you should at least read his work and know that by "dissent" , Zinn was talking about "whistle-blowers" and other "trouble makers" who he felt were willing to sacrifice for "change". To lower his quote to rude gestures and cat-calls shows that you are either parroting his words or simply lifted the quote from the internet....either way you had NO idea what you were talking about and used the quote out of context.

By the way...the originator of the quote has made several more stupid remarks such as:

when he called Mao Tse Tung’s China—“the closest thing, in the long history of that ancient country, to a people’s government, independent of outside control.”

or when he said that Castro’s Cuba had—“no bloody record of suppression”

or when talking about Ronald Reagan’s America, he said—“Unemployment grew in the Reagan years"

Howard Zinn and his book..A People’s History of the United States..is the perfect example of peudo-academia. A book that relies less on painstaking research, then it does playing on the elitist social-victimization that the left gobbles up. Lucky for him he has people willing to not only drink the kool-aid....but willing to snatch his quotes and use them to further his cause....even if they use them out of context.

GBMelBlount
01-25-2009, 09:16 AM
I believe the dissent as patriotism quote was originally intended to imply that if one is willing to dissent the current actions of government in favor of the foundation one is a true patriot.

Being called a traitor by your government isn’t always a bad thing either. Our founding fathers were traitors, and for good reason.

Well said IronFan. The way you qualified your statement I find myself largely agreeing with you. Thank you. I agree with your earlier statement as well, unfortunately. Again, welcome to Steelersfever.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-25-2009, 09:24 AM
I believe the dissent as patriotism quote was originally intended to imply that if one is willing to dissent the current actions of government in favor of the foundation one is a true patriot.



You are correct...but as Zinn pointed out..dissent comes with action and possible sacrifice.

Simply being unhappy and sticking your tongue hardly qualifies.

GBMelBlount
01-25-2009, 09:25 AM
lamberts-left-teat

To lower his quote to rude gestures and cat-calls shows that you are either parroting his words or simply lifted the quote from the internet....either way you had NO idea what you were talking about and used the quote out of context.


In all fairness LLT, I just think he did not qualify the statement, that's all. Perhaps to fuel the fire in response to the combative tone of the thread. I'm not sure why he would do such a thing though, because I certainly am NEVER combative or partisan and I'm sure Tony will back me up on that. :chuckle:

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-25-2009, 09:32 AM
In all fairness LLT, I just think he did not qualify the statement, that's all. Perhaps to fuel the fire in response to the combative tone of the thread. I'm not sure why he would do such a thing though, because I certainly am NEVER combative or partisan and I'm sure Tony will back me up on that. :chuckle:

I understand ....but by using the quote to back those who were booing...he did qualify it.

(..and I never get combative either):mad:

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-25-2009, 09:56 AM
LLT,

In this case I do equate the two. It was a lack of civil decorum with a message. They were displeased with his Presidency and they made it known.
Yeah, it was impolite, but demonstrations usually are.
Just outta curiosity, are you against demonstrations in general, or just certain ones?


You are fundamentally confusing "rights" with civil decorum.
All people are given the right to demonstrate within the confines of the law...that is demanded. All people should also stay within the confines of civil decorum while demonstrating...that is common sense.

Those that cannot stay within the confines of civil decorum show that they lack the intellectual capacity to respond in any other manner.

If I protest outside of your place of business because I believe that your company is polluting the atmosphere and is directly responsible to the exceptional cold winter we are having by accelerating "Global Cooling".....I have that right.

If I grab my crotch every time one of your employees walks out....I have done NOTHING to further my cause...I have sacrificed nothing. All I would have done is shown a crassness and rudeness that if nothing else....makes those on the other side ignore the true point of my demonstration by writing me off as an idiot.

Is that so hard to understand?

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-25-2009, 09:59 AM
Hmm... I think I see where you're going with this. I half-agree.
It still counts IMO, it's just ineffective.

That was my point....maybe I wasnt stating it very well.

IronFan
01-25-2009, 10:01 AM
You are correct...but as Zinn pointed out..dissent comes with action and possible sacrifice.

Simply being unhappy and sticking your tongue hardly qualifies.

Well I think sticking your tongue out and letting everyone know you are unhappy would still qualify as dissent, be it an unproductive and annoying dissent. Now weíre getting into the hippy movement though and as a hardcore Beatles fan itís too early on a Sunday to trash Lennon.

IronFan
01-25-2009, 10:02 AM
Came in right after you posted that. Ignore my response as you've already answered it sir.

Texasteel
01-25-2009, 10:04 AM
I think that by booing President Bush, which is what this thread is about, these people were just expressing their frustration with his presidency. This demonstration had no purpose except to bring attention to the people that were doing it, as the President was leaving office.

I believe the one thing that it did is to scare what I still feel to be a solum event, the changing of the guard.

In a case like this I think that if you can't respect the man, you should respect to office, and the occasion.

Did they have the right to do what they did, yes I think they did, but IMO it showed incredible poor taste, and bad judgment.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-25-2009, 10:12 AM
Yeah, there's been a little of that goin' around lately :wave:

Your alright by me.:hatsoff:

GBMelBlount
01-25-2009, 10:16 AM
Well I think sticking your tongue out and letting everyone know you are unhappy would still qualify as dissent, be it an unproductive and annoying dissent. Now we’re getting into the hippy movement though and as a hardcore Beatles fan it’s too early on a Sunday to trash Lennon.

Ya, I listened Beatles A LOT growing up, being that I am old and all. :chuckle: Any favorite songs / albums? I also had some Paul McCartney (& wings) albums/ 8 tracks that I pretty much wore out, Red Rose Speedway, Venus & Mars, etc. Good stuff.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-25-2009, 10:20 AM
Well I think sticking your tongue out and letting everyone know you are unhappy would still qualify as dissent, be it an unproductive and annoying dissent. Now weíre getting into the hippy movement though and as a hardcore Beatles fan itís too early on a Sunday to trash Lennon.

I spent more than one afternoon in college showing my dissent....by sitting in a cloud of smoke and contemplating.....string.


*disclaimer*
As a member of the law enforecement community, the above statement is not an admission to any act that may be deemed unlawful . Any conclusion the reader may make as to why I was in a cloud of smoke is purely up to the imagination of said reader and not said admission of criminal intent. If "Joe" is reading this, please remember that I know the story about the "fat girl", and any and all comments by "Joe" in regards to said room with said cloud of smoke will result in immediate retaliation of said story with photographic evidence.

IronFan
01-25-2009, 10:23 AM
Ya, I listened Beatles A LOT growing up, being that I am old and all. :chuckle: Any favorite songs / albums? I also had some Paul McCartney (& wings) albums/ 8 tracks that I pretty much wore out, Red Rose Speedway, Venus & Mars, etc. Good stuff.
I was 4 years old when Lennon was killed so I didn't get a chance to experience the Beatles in real time. I came to be a fan much later. Big fan of Revolver, Abby Road, and the White Album. Really though, any Beatles is good stuff.

IronFan
01-25-2009, 10:26 AM
I spent more than one afternoon in college showing my dissent....by sitting in a cloud of smoke and contemplating.....string.


*disclaimer*
As a member of the law enforecement community, the above statement is not an admission to any act that may be deemed unlawful . Any conclusion the reader may make as to why I was in a cloud of smoke is purely up to the imagination of said reader and not said admission of criminal intent. If "Joe" is reading this, please remember that I know the story about the "fat girl", and any and all comments by "Joe" in regards to said room with said cloud of smoke will result in immediate retaliation of said story with photographic evidence.
^^Good stuff here lol. I think I'm gonna like it here. :drink:

BTW ... :tt03: .... I know the guy that made that smiley, a friend of mine. We called it :cope: I actually asked him to make it some years ago. Captain was his name, at NFL-Fans. Good dude.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-25-2009, 10:34 AM
I understand what you're sayin', but I don't believe such cases exist. I think that when one resorts to thinking "If you can't respect the man", then you're broadening a context to quell all dissent.
I think we heap too much reverence on the office of the President, to our collective loss. We shouldn't be treating him like our leader, we should be treating him like our employee. He works for us, not the other way around.
So respecting the office or the occasion? No, not so much IMO. There is no better moment than that to tell him "You did a horrible job and I'm glad you're gone".

But there are instances where you respect his dignity as a human being no matter how much you may disapprove of him and it's improper to demonstrate. Those would be when he's not wearing his "President" hat, such as family functions and the like.

But you know... that's just me.

Let me put it to you this way.

When I was in the service..there were officers that I respected. There was, however, one officer that everyone made fun of ...the one that sucked and couldnt do the job. Part of his problem was that, regardless of performance, even the new people who came in wouldnt respect him because those who knew him better, and had been around him, made fun of him.

If we, as a country, do not respect our President...and other countries KNOW that the President is unpopular and not backed by its citizens and its congress....the President holds much less power and ability to work with other nations who WILL see him as a lame duck and use his unpopularity as a tool to leverage their own agendas.

When other countries KNOW that we want to see the President on the "other side of the aisle" fail. They will be more than happy to comply.

Obama is lucky enough to be able to use his popularity, earned or not, to push our agenda on other countries. They have to think that he is,barring an unforeseen problem, there for 8 years and is not ham-stringed by a senate...house...and populace that second guesses his every move.

I think based on that broader picture..we DO have a civic responsibility to not degrade the office.

Polamalu Princess
01-25-2009, 11:09 AM
:rofl:That was funny!!!! You never inhaled - right?I spent more than one afternoon in college showing my dissent....by sitting in a cloud of smoke and contemplating.....string.


*disclaimer*
As a member of the law enforecement community, the above statement is not an admission to any act that may be deemed unlawful . Any conclusion the reader may make as to why I was in a cloud of smoke is purely up to the imagination of said reader and not said admission of criminal intent. If "Joe" is reading this, please remember that I know the story about the "fat girl", and any and all comments by "Joe" in regards to said room with said cloud of smoke will result in immediate retaliation of said story with photographic evidence.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-25-2009, 11:21 AM
:rofl:That was funny!!!! You never inhaled - right?

Oh I inhaled!.....but have been holding my breath since 1987...in fear of blowing smoke in someones face.

Preacher
01-25-2009, 11:46 AM
Oh I inhaled!.....but have been holding my breath since 1987...in fear of blowing smoke in someones face.

Its what he inhaled that he refuses to tell us!

:wink02:

tony hipchest
01-25-2009, 02:04 PM
wow, this thread sure took a turn for the better.

*BOOOOOOOO!!!* :chuckle:

:smoker:

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
01-25-2009, 02:18 PM
so do you agree with Vietnam Veterans being spit on and called "baby killers" because the hippies didn't agree with the war?

hindes204
01-25-2009, 08:42 PM
Well, my uncle was a decorated vietnam vet and has told me he was spit on...so i take his word over your "research"

And as a vet of Iraqi Freedom (and still active duty), i can assure you that the far left nutcases have more than once looked down on me when i told them i was fighting for their right to say stupid things

Polamalu Princess
01-25-2009, 09:22 PM
I really like all of you on this thread, but I thought we were over this and going to put this thread to an end????? PLEASE???? We are 1 week away from the reason this board is in place to begin with - Go STEELERS!!!!

hindes204
01-25-2009, 09:50 PM
I really like all of you on this thread, but I thought we were over this and going to put this thread to an end????? PLEASE???? We are 1 week away from the reason this board is in place to begin with - Go STEELERS!!!!

:hug: ITS ALL GOOD

Preacher
01-26-2009, 03:43 AM
Well, my uncle was a decorated vietnam vet and has told me he was spit on...so i take his word over your "research"

And as a vet of Iraqi Freedom (and still active duty), i can assure you that the far left nutcases have more than once looked down on me when i told them i was fighting for their right to say stupid things

Which is why I make sure to stop and shake the hand of any uniformed person I meet in an airport, store, restaurant, etc.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-26-2009, 11:31 AM
LLT,


Disagree. Point #1 the analogy you draw (President as a military officer) is invalid. The President does not issue orders that we as citizens are obligated to obey. "Respect the uniform" works in the military (it must be that way) and in dictatorships, not in free Democratic Republics.

Respectfully disagree...in a dictatorship, the person in charge need not worry about office or uniform (He cant be voted out or discharged) but the populace is forced to respect the man....complete reversal on what point you are trying to make


Point #2 If a president is unpopular our enemies know it as well as we do. We don't hide anything from them by being polite about it.

We are not talking about whether one likes the Man in office...that has been my point from the beginning...I could care less if one likes the man or not...its not about popularity....its about civil decorum and getting back to a point where the world sees America as "United"..and not divided.

If we are not percieved as the greatest country in the world ...with the greatest freedoms that patriotic blood has paid for...its more because we have changed the worlds perception of us by our partisan bickering on the public stage.

If there's any civic responsibility, it's the other way around; we have a moral duty to our fellow citizens to protest and even raise arms against our own government when it becomes corrupt. Says so right there in the Declaration of Independence.
....when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.....

(emphasis mine)

...and do you think that we are reduced to "absolute Despotism"?...(emphasis mine)...Compare our country to Zimbabwe...or North Korea...or China.

When we reach that place in our country..look to your right. The person standing beside you will be me.....and I will have more to say then "Boo".

43Hitman
09-19-2009, 03:06 PM
No I don't, but I do believe we are witnessing first hand "a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce [us] under absolute Despotism". (emphasis mine).

Not just by that administration, but also by the previous ones and the current one. We're not there yet, but because we haven't stood up to our government and said "no more", we are caught up in a relentless slide towards tyranny.




I'm glad for that, but I'd just as soon not discuss such matters on a public forum ;)
Here's to hoping we're never forced to water the Tree of Liberty. :drink:

Me either, that would be a sad day, and hard times would follow for everyone. If however it did have to happen, I would uphold my duty as an American and protect the constitution with everything I have.