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View Full Version : Mel Kiper's first round


MDSteel15
01-22-2009, 09:53 PM
1 Detroit - Matthew Stafford QB Georgia
2 St. Louis - Andre Smith OT Alabama
3 Kansas City - Mark Sanchez QB USC
4 Seattle - Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech
5 Cleveland - Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest
6 Cincinnati - Jason Smith OT Baylor
7 Oakland - Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri
8 Jacksonville - Eugene Monroe OT Virginia
9 Green Bay - Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio St.
10 San Francisco - Aaron Maybin DE/OLB Penn St.
11 Buffalo - Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma St.
12 Denver - B.J. Raji DT Boston College
13 Washington - Brian Orakpo DE Texas
14 New Orleans - Vontae Davis CB Illinois
15 Houston - Everette Brown DE Florida St.
16 San Diego - Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
17 New York Jets - Percy Harvin WR Florida
18 Chicago - Tyson Jackson DE LSU
19 Tampa Bay - Josh Freeman QB Kansas St.
20 Detroit (from Dallas) - Rey Maualuga LB USC
21 Philadelphia - Chris "Beanie" Wells RB Ohio St.
22 Minnesota - Hakeem Nicks WR North Carolina
23 New England - Brian Cushing LB USC
24 Atlanta - Larry English DE/OLB No. Illinois
25 Miami - Darrius Heyward-Bey WR Mryland
26 Baltimore - D.J. Moore CB Vanderbilt
27 Indianapolis - Peria Jerry DT Mississippi
28 Philadelphia (from Carolina) - Michael Oher OT Mississippi
29 New York Giants - James Laurinaitis LB Ohio St.
30 Tennessee - Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech
31 Arizona - LeSean McCoy RB Pittsburgh
32 Pittsburgh - Alex Mack C California

MasterOfPuppets
01-22-2009, 10:16 PM
1 Detroit - Matthew Stafford QB Georgia
2 St. Louis - Andre Smith OT Alabama
3 Kansas City - Mark Sanchez QB USC
4 Seattle - Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech
5 Cleveland - Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest
6 Cincinnati - Jason Smith OT Baylor
7 Oakland - Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri
8 Jacksonville - Eugene Monroe OT Virginia
9 Green Bay - Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio St.
10 San Francisco - Aaron Maybin DE/OLB Penn St.
11 Buffalo - Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma St.
12 Denver - B.J. Raji DT Boston College
13 Washington - Brian Orakpo DE Texas
14 New Orleans - Vontae Davis CB Illinois
15 Houston - Everette Brown DE Florida St.
16 San Diego - Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
17 New York Jets - Percy Harvin WR Florida
18 Chicago - Tyson Jackson DE LSU
19 Tampa Bay - Josh Freeman QB Kansas St.
20 Detroit (from Dallas) - Rey Maualuga LB USC
21 Philadelphia - Chris "Beanie" Wells RB Ohio St.
22 Minnesota - Hakeem Nicks WR North Carolina
23 New England - Brian Cushing LB USC
24 Atlanta - Larry English DE/OLB No. Illinois
25 Miami - Darrius Heyward-Bey WR Mryland
26 Baltimore - D.J. Moore CB Vanderbilt
27 Indianapolis - Peria Jerry DT Mississippi
28 Philadelphia (from Carolina) - Michael Oher OT Mississippi
29 New York Giants - James Laurinaitis LB Ohio St.
30 Tennessee - Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech
31 Arizona - LeSean McCoy RB Pittsburgh
32 Pittsburgh - Alex Mack C California
kiper needs to put the crack pipe down.......

3 Kansas City - Mark Sanchez QB USC...i just don't see anyone paying the top 5 ransom for a 1 year wonder. its possable but if the chiefs are switching to the 3-4, they better load up on players to run it.
9 Green Bay - Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio St.....they're switching to a 3-4 this year, and don't have the front 7 to run it...
15 Houston - Everette Brown DE Florida St.....way to small to be a 4-3 DE
18 Chicago - Tyson Jackson DE LSU.... not exacly the best choice for the D they run,why would they pass on good pass rushers like jerry or johnson, for jackson?
28 Philadelphia (from Carolina) - Michael Oher OT Mississippi...if someone would trade back into the first for the likes of sam baker, no way would oher fall to 28 !!!

Texasteel
01-23-2009, 03:31 AM
kiper needs to put the crack pipe down.......

3 Kansas City - Mark Sanchez QB USC...i just don't see anyone paying the top 5 ransom for a 1 year wonder. its possable but if the chiefs are switching to the 3-4, they better load up on players to run it.
9 Green Bay - Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio St.....they're switching to a 3-4 this year, and don't have the front 7 to run it...
15 Houston - Everette Brown DE Florida St.....way to small to be a 4-3 DE
18 Chicago - Tyson Jackson DE LSU.... not exacly the best choice for the D they run,why would they pass on good pass rushers like jerry or johnson, for jackson?
28 Philadelphia (from Carolina) - Michael Oher OT Mississippi...if someone would trade back into the first for the likes of sam baker, no way would oher fall to 28 !!!

Can you see Detroit taking a LB at 20 and leaving Oher on the table? They really need someone to protect the young QB they just drafted.

Galax Steeler
01-23-2009, 04:08 AM
I really like our pick I would love to see Mack in black and gold.

atlsteelers
01-23-2009, 09:02 AM
i am not sure center is our greatest need. i was thinking either a tackle or guard.

i am with you guys no way does Oher fall that far.

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 09:25 AM
Can you see Detroit taking a LB at 20 and leaving Oher on the table? They really need someone to protect the young QB they just drafted.

tex....i don't see oher dropping out of the top 10......good tackles don't grow on trees.....:noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 09:27 AM
i am not sure center is our greatest need. i was thinking either a tackle or guard.

i am with you guys no way does Oher fall that far.mack is not only the best center in this class, but he'd probably be the best guard....hartwig, can also move to guard..

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2009, 09:57 AM
mack is not only the best center in this class, but he'd probably be the best guard....hartwig, can also move to guard..

So True! Here is a question.....if Mack and Duke Robinson are on the board for the Steelers.........who do you pick?? Mack for the versatility, or Robinson because he is just a pure mauler inside at guard?

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 10:13 AM
So True! Here is a question.....if Mack and Duke Robinson are on the board for the Steelers.........who do you pick?? Mack for the versatility, or Robinson because he is just a pure mauler inside at guard?
after reading all the senior bowl reports . i'd have to go with mack. he gives you options, that your not gonna get with robinson. you can put him at center and try hartwig at guard, or leave hartwig, and put him in at either guard position. it also gives you flexability for not only the rest of this draft, but future drafts. you take mack, then you have the option of taking either another center or guard.

ShutDown24
01-23-2009, 10:32 AM
If they Lions are smart, they won't take Stafford with the first pick. Believe it or not quarterback is not even close to their biggest need and Stafford wouldn't be the best player available either. That being said they are the Lions, so I can see that happening.

Kansas City won't take Sanchez. They like Thigpen a whole lot and, to be honest, he played well enough to start next year and has an okay record with that team.

The thing to remember about those statements is that quarterbacks generally drop a lot once the real draft rolls around. For some reason, guys like Kiper seem to enjoy pumping the best QBs of the class up to the top five picks even if they are more mid to lower first round guys.

I don't see Buffalo going with a TE. Not that high at least. Robert Royal is an old but good player.

The Eagles won't take a runningback and really, they shouldn't. What they need to do is give Correll Buckhalter more carries and use Westbrook in spots. They should go... RECEIVER.

Has Hakeem Nicks really risen that much? I don't think the Vikings really need help at receiver... If a Harvin was there maybe. But there are still better players on the board and they have bigger needs.

Tampa Bay wtf? Is someone really going to take Josh Freeman THAT high? I know there has been some hot talk about him but wow. To me, that's reaching really far.

Detroit has some quality linebackers. With Schwartz there as the new HC I can see them going defense but I don't think they'll take a backer with Dizon and Sims being young guys who can play now.

I agree that Oher won't drop that far and also, I would rather us take more of a pure guard or tackle like Robinson than Mack - but that's just me. I know a lot of you guys like him.

Anyway there is my take. Not Kiper's best effort in my opinion.

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 11:21 AM
If they Lions are smart, they won't take Stafford with the first pick. Believe it or not quarterback is not even close to their biggest need and Stafford wouldn't be the best player available either. That being said they are the Lions, so I can see that happening
i completely agree...other than jersey sales, whats a qb going to do for the lions next year? nothing but get the shit knocked outta him. they need to build a descent line , and a running game, before they should even consider paying that kinda money for a rookie qb. not to mention they'll still most likely have a shot at bradford next year.

Kansas City won't take Sanchez. They like Thigpen a whole lot and, to be honest, he played well enough to start next year and has an okay record with that team.
nobody is going to pay that signing bonus for a one year wonder, let alone a one year wonder qb !!!

The thing to remember about those statements is that quarterbacks generally drop a lot once the real draft rolls around. For some reason, guys like Kiper seem to enjoy pumping the best QBs of the class up to the top five picks even if they are more mid to lower first round guys.
brady quinn ring a bell ?

I don't see Buffalo going with a TE. Not that high at least. Robert Royal is an old but good player.
i agree, pettigrew isn't that "must have" kinda prospect.

The Eagles won't take a runningback and really, they shouldn't. What they need to do is give Correll Buckhalter more carries and use Westbrook in spots. They should go... RECEIVER.
the iggles should be much more concerned with finding tackles then a rb....buckhalter is a FA...and i believe he's about 30 ?

Has Hakeem Nicks really risen that much? I don't think the Vikings really need help at receiver... If a Harvin was there maybe. But there are still better players on the board and they have bigger needs.
isn't he another one year wonder?

Tampa Bay wtf? Is someone really going to take Josh Freeman THAT high? I know there has been some hot talk about him but wow. To me, that's reaching really far.
agree....this might be a spot for sanchez

Detroit has some quality linebackers. With Schwartz there as the new HC I can see them going defense but I don't think they'll take a backer with Dizon and Sims being young guys who can play now.
agree...they should still be looking at oline here

I agree that Oher won't drop that far and also, I would rather us take more of a pure guard or tackle like Robinson than Mack - but that's just me. I know a lot of you guys like him.
hartwig was a 3 year guard in college. :noidea: mack gives you the option of finding out if hartwig is a better guard than center....at the very least, he's gotta be as good as keomauto

Anyway there is my take. Not Kiper's best effort in my opinion.
i agree...it doesn't look like he took team needs and free agency into consideration

:noidea:

atlsteelers
01-23-2009, 11:34 AM
If they Lions are smart, they won't take Stafford with the first pick. Believe it or not quarterback is not even close to their biggest need and Stafford wouldn't be the best player available either. That being said they are the Lions, so I can see that happening.

Kansas City won't take Sanchez. They like Thigpen a whole lot and, to be honest, he played well enough to start next year and has an okay record with that team.

The thing to remember about those statements is that quarterbacks generally drop a lot once the real draft rolls around. For some reason, guys like Kiper seem to enjoy pumping the best QBs of the class up to the top five picks even if they are more mid to lower first round guys.

Franchise Qbs are so difficult to find thats why they get drafted so quickly even if they are only a "mid first talent". So i would not be suprised to see both stafford and sanchez go in the the top 5. freeman looks like this years flaco. has the skills and all of the other senior qbs coming out have major holes so if tampa is thinking about stoping the rotating door at the qb spot the gotta try to start somewhere - so thats were freeman comes in.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2009, 12:03 PM
after reading all the senior bowl reports . i'd have to go with mack. he gives you options, that your not gonna get with robinson. you can put him at center and try hartwig at guard, or leave hartwig, and put him in at either guard position. it also gives you flexability for not only the rest of this draft, but future drafts. you take mack, then you have the option of taking either another center or guard.

I agree completely. I honestly think Mack is similar to Faneca, but not as athletic....so you get a big, tall, strong run blocker, an adequate pass blocker and a guy that can pull, but wont be the best at it.

Mack is also an academic all american and won the academic version of the Heisman. Smart O linemen, especially your center are important. I dont think Mack will last to our spot, but hope he does.

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 12:38 PM
I agree completely. I honestly think Mack is similar to Faneca, but not as athletic....so you get a big, tall, strong run blocker, an adequate pass blocker and a guy that can pull, but wont be the best at it.

Mack is also an academic all american and won the academic version of the Heisman. Smart O linemen, especially your center are important. I dont think Mack will last to our spot, but hope he does. i'd think he's gotta be equally as fast an agile if not more so than robinson..... i haven't seen any video's of duke pulling. have you seen him doing it? anyway the way i see it , mack would be an upgrade over either hartwig, or kemoato, so its a win, win situation.....but like you said....he may be gone.especially if the vikings( birk 33 yrs old ),ravens or indy (saturday, 34 yrs old ) decide to let thier centers walk in free agency. arizona, or detroit (20th) may be other players in the mack sweep stakes. i think the centers are going to fly off the board in rd 2. chiefs, bengals, bills, jags,and rams, should all be looking for upgrades early.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2009, 01:42 PM
I've watched Robinson in games and think he does a good job pulling, despite what Mayock might think. Mack rarely pulled, but seemed to have heavy feet when getting downfield to block LB's.....but he takes good angles and is a warrior when he gets there.

I think the Colts got Mike Pollack last year, so he is the successor to Saturday. Titans have nobody to take over for Mawae and yes, the Vikings need a C, but I think they need a good WR first. I hope we go BPA on the O line.

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 01:57 PM
I've watched Robinson in games and think he does a good job pulling, despite what Mayock might think. Mack rarely pulled, but seemed to have heavy feet when getting downfield to block LB's.....but he takes good angles and is a warrior when he gets there.

I think the Colts got Mike Pollack last year, so he is the successor to Saturday. Titans have nobody to take over for Mawae and yes, the Vikings need a C, but I think they need a good WR first. I hope we go BPA on the O line. could just be a matter of lack of repetitions...... before high school, i'd never been asked to pull either......i had more than 1 collision with the fullback ...:laughing:... i was just getting off the snap to slow..lack of concentration was all it was. we ran a ton of traps, so i had no choice, but to get better at it. once i got the hang of it i loved it !!! nothing i enjoyed more than laying an unsuspected tackle out !!!:thumbsup:

kev4heels33
01-23-2009, 02:03 PM
I know we need OL badly, but don't be surprised if quality OL are already gone by the time we pick, that Colbert/Tomlin go with a guy like Alphonso Smith from Wake. Dude is a lockdown corner with great ball skills. He is a tad short, but talent is talent. Of course, this is all dependent on what happens with BMac...

MDSteel15
01-23-2009, 02:03 PM
If they Lions are smart, they won't take Stafford with the first pick. Believe it or not quarterback is not even close to their biggest need and Stafford wouldn't be the best player available either. That being said they are the Lions, so I can see that happening.

Kansas City won't take Sanchez. They like Thigpen a whole lot and, to be honest, he played well enough to start next year and has an okay record with that team.

The thing to remember about those statements is that quarterbacks generally drop a lot once the real draft rolls around. For some reason, guys like Kiper seem to enjoy pumping the best QBs of the class up to the top five picks even if they are more mid to lower first round guys.

I don't see Buffalo going with a TE. Not that high at least. Robert Royal is an old but good player.

The Eagles won't take a runningback and really, they shouldn't. What they need to do is give Correll Buckhalter more carries and use Westbrook in spots. They should go... RECEIVER.

Has Hakeem Nicks really risen that much? I don't think the Vikings really need help at receiver... If a Harvin was there maybe. But there are still better players on the board and they have bigger needs.

Tampa Bay wtf? Is someone really going to take Josh Freeman THAT high? I know there has been some hot talk about him but wow. To me, that's reaching really far.

Detroit has some quality linebackers. With Schwartz there as the new HC I can see them going defense but I don't think they'll take a backer with Dizon and Sims being young guys who can play now.

I agree that Oher won't drop that far and also, I would rather us take more of a pure guard or tackle like Robinson than Mack - but that's just me. I know a lot of you guys like him.

Anyway there is my take. Not Kiper's best effort in my opinion.

You know, out of the 32 picks in the 1st round last year, Kipers had 26 of the people correct.... not necissarily the right team, but the players were right!

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 02:16 PM
You know, out of the 32 picks in the 1st round last year, Kipers had 26 of the people correct.... not necissarily the right team, but the players were right!i don't have a problem with the guys he has in there, with the exception of 1 or 2.... as much as i do when and where he has em going.....pettigrew to buffalo? now if he had pettigrew to , balt, philly, or NY....i could see it.....:noidea: and why would the bears pass on jerry, for a one demensional player like jackson?.....they need a person who can pressure the qb and stop the run....that would be jerry not jackson, who gets very few sacks.

MDSteel15
01-23-2009, 02:26 PM
Noted :drink:

steelerdave1969
01-23-2009, 03:11 PM
I dont like the pick of Alex Mack after the way DT B.J. Rahi from Boston College dominated him every time in senior bowl practices

MDSteel15
01-23-2009, 03:17 PM
I dont like the pick of Alex Mack after the way DT B.J. Rahi from Boston College dominated him every time in senior bowl practices

That's on a wide open field, the commentators even said that. It would not happn in the trenches!

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 03:46 PM
I dont like the pick of Alex Mack after the way DT B.J. Rahi from Boston College dominated him every time in senior bowl practices

thats funny....thats not what i read......:coffee:

California C Alex Mack was reportedly the only lineman who could contain Boston College DT B.J. Raji on the first day of Senior Bowl practices.
Mack, who could probably play any line position except left tackle at 6'4/312, picked up Raji in one drill and drove him backwards off the football. Mack was allegedly more impressive than fellow highly touted C Max Unger of Oregon.

Aussie_steeler
01-23-2009, 05:27 PM
Steelers traditionally pick BPA. Therefore using Kipers mock the players that would be available to choose from for a BPA pick include

* Eben Britton OT
* William Beatty OT
* Duke Robinson OG
* Alex Mack OC
* William Moore FS ( stocks are falling fast)
* Clint Sintim OLB
* Alphonso Smith CB
* Sean Smith CB

I have been pimping Mack this year but with those names available it would be very hard to turn down Eben Britton or William Beatty. IMO I would probably slot Eben Britton in their instead of Mack.

At the rate William Moore is falling (unless he has a hell of a combine) he will be available in the second round to consider. Now ponder that thought, Moore / Delmas or Pegues available to consider in round two?

Texasteel
01-23-2009, 05:34 PM
Steelers traditionally pick BPA. Therefore using Kipers mock the players that would be available to choose from for a BPA pick include

* Eben Britton OT
* William Beatty OT
* Duke Robinson OG
* Alex Mack OC
* William Moore FS ( stocks are falling fast)
* Clint Sintim OLB
* Alphonso Smith CB
* Sean Smith CB

I have been pimping Mack this year but with those names available it would be very hard to turn down Eben Britton or William Beatty. IMO I would probably slot Eben Britton in their instead of Mack.

At the rate William Moore is falling (unless he has a hell of a combine) he will be available in the second round to consider. Now ponder that thought, Moore / Delmas or Pegues available to consider in round two?

The only one I would take over Mack is Britton, But I have a nasty feeling we won't have a shot at either. After those 2, I go Robinson.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2009, 05:56 PM
Steelers traditionally pick BPA. Therefore using Kipers mock the players that would be available to choose from for a BPA pick include

* Eben Britton OT
* William Beatty OT
* Duke Robinson OG
* Alex Mack OC
* William Moore FS ( stocks are falling fast)
* Clint Sintim OLB
* Alphonso Smith CB
* Sean Smith CB

I have been pimping Mack this year but with those names available it would be very hard to turn down Eben Britton or William Beatty. IMO I would probably slot Eben Britton in their instead of Mack.

At the rate William Moore is falling (unless he has a hell of a combine) he will be available in the second round to consider. Now ponder that thought, Moore / Delmas or Pegues available to consider in round two?
Yeah, Aussie..........I saw a couple drills with Beatty at Sr. Bowl practice and he moves well, but looks thin, got bull rushed easily and showed no punch. I think he is Chris Williams light and maybe more of a 3 year project guy.

I still have not seen Britton, but again supposed to be a good pass protector, not a polished run blocker and a guy that was a highschool D lineman.....so still kind of raw, but with great potential.

I read what MOP did. Mack has separated himself as the top center in the draft. I watched Wood, Luigs, Caldwell and Unger..........well, you know I hate Unger, but Luigs got pushed around too. Mack, Wood, Caldwell looked like my top 3 centers, then Luigs and Unger.

Aussie_steeler
01-23-2009, 06:03 PM
Yeah, Aussie..........I saw a couple drills with Beatty at Sr. Bowl practice and he moves well, but looks thin, got bull rushed easily and showed no punch. I think he is Chris Williams light and maybe more of a 3 year project guy.

I still have not seen Britton, but again supposed to be a good pass protector, not a polished run blocker and a guy that was a highschool D lineman.....so still kind of raw, but with great potential.

I read what MOP did. Mack has separated himself as the top center in the draft. I watched Wood, Luigs, Caldwell and Unger..........well, you know I hate Unger, but Luigs got pushed around too. Mack, Wood, Caldwell looked like my top 3 centers, then Luigs and Unger.

Mack is hands down the best center in the draft and I would jump for joy if he wound up in black and gold. Beatty is probably not a good fit for the steelers and Britton would definitely keep Ben upright but I dont know how much running room would be available on the left with him there. If you took Britton you would also need to upgrade the LG spot with a guy like Canfield / Levitre / Urbik

I think Starks will be back at LT for a few more years so if that happens give me Mack in the 1st.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2009, 06:14 PM
Mack is hands down the best center in the draft and I would jump for joy if he wound up in black and gold. Beatty is probably not a good fit for the steelers and Britton would definitely keep Ben upright but I dont know how much running room would be available on the left with him there. If you took Britton you would also need to upgrade the LG spot with a guy like Canfield / Levitre / Urbik

I think Starks will be back at LT for a few more years so if that happens give me Mack in the 1st.

IF we get Britton, he doesnt start for a season or 2. If we get Britton and Mack.....Mack upgrades LG instantly and our Veteran LT (I hope not Starks) plays there for maybe 2 seasons.

Texasteel
01-23-2009, 06:17 PM
I read what MOP did. Mack has separated himself as the top center in the draft. I watched Wood, Luigs, Caldwell and Unger..........well, you know I hate Unger, but Luigs got pushed around too. Mack, Wood, Caldwell looked like my top 3 centers, then Luigs and Unger.

I have been very impressed with Caldwell, and I didn't really care for him much going in. I thought that he has looked better that Wood, but the drills I've watch were totaly stacked against Wood, to much room for the defender to work. I can't argue with your rankings of the centers, but would count out Luigs. I don't know why but Unger scares me, he looks like a jack of all trades, the master of none, to me.

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 06:27 PM
i was pissed off when they didn't take nick mangold, i was pissed off when they didn't go for grubbs or blaylock, if they got a shot at mack, and don't take him i'm gonna.........well i guess i'm gonna be pissed off again.....:noidea: ......

SunshineMan21
01-23-2009, 06:31 PM
I think Kiper got most of the players right, but the teams and order wrong.

I particularly agree with the previous posters who commented that Kiper has overrated QBs. I think Stafford and Sanchez will both be good pro QB, but I haven't heard anything that leads me to believe that either one is going to be the next Matt Ryan or Ben Roethlisberger or Joe Flacco. I've heard that they're physically talented passers that might take a few years.

Detroit and KC both have way bigger problems than QB, as Dan Orlovsky and Tyler Thigpen both played quite well last year. Both teams have skill players to build around but holes on the O-line. And both have historically abysmal defenses.

Texasteel
01-23-2009, 07:34 PM
i was pissed off when they didn't take nick mangold, i was pissed off when they didn't go for grubbs or blaylock, if they got a shot at mack, and don't take him i'm gonna.........well i guess i'm gonna be pissed off again.....:noidea: ......

Agreed.

KeiselPower99
01-23-2009, 08:08 PM
mack is not only the best center in this class, but he'd probably be the best guard....hartwig, can also move to guard..

I dont see Hartwig moving to guard next year. Carolina released him cause he didnt wanna move and to be honest Hartiwg has played very well this year. Im more into the tackle,guard or d line with the first pick.

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 08:27 PM
I dont see Hartwig moving to guard next year. Carolina released him cause he didnt wanna move and to be honest Hartiwg has played very well this year. Im more into the tackle,guard or d line with the first pick.never heard that before..... hartwig was a 3 year starter at guard in college, so its not like he isn't familiar with the position. i'd say hartwig is an upgrade over mahan, but i don't think he's played well enough to be content with. i've never seen ben gain a full yard on a qb sneak.....:wink02:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2009, 11:17 PM
I have been very impressed with Caldwell, and I didn't really care for him much going in. I thought that he has looked better that Wood, but the drills I've watch were totaly stacked against Wood, to much room for the defender to work. I can't argue with your rankings of the centers, but would count out Luigs. I don't know why but Unger scares me, he looks like a jack of all trades, the master of none, to me.

I agree with you. Luigs seemed to get high in the drills that I saw and dont discount his years of work in games because of a few practices. On the other hand I also thought Caldwell was a bit light, but watching him play a couple times this year.....especially against LSU, he looked solid.

Wood isnt overly athletic, but neither is Hartwig. I think Wood would fit well for the Steelers, but think Mack is a Nick Mangold, Jeff Faine, kind of guy that is ahead of the rest of the class. Unger gets attention for being versatile, but doesnt handle big guys at the point of attack well.......not a good combo for matching up with 325 lb NT's in the AFC North.

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 11:25 PM
I agree with you. Luigs seemed to get high in the drills that I saw and dont discount his years of work in games because of a few practices. On the other hand I also thought Caldwell was a bit light, but watching him play a couple times this year.....especially against LSU, he looked solid.

Wood isnt overly athletic, but neither is Hartwig. I think Wood would fit well for the Steelers, but think Mack is a Nick Mangold, Jeff Faine, kind of guy that is ahead of the rest of the class. Unger gets attention for being versatile, but doesnt handle big guys at the point of attack well.......not a good combo for matching up with 325 lb NT's in the AFC North.that says it all right there.....i'm tired of seeing the centers of late not being able to get a push.....we need a guy that not just holds the point of attack, but can actually win the battle and move the pile.thats half the reason why we can't gain a freakin yd on the goal line.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2009, 11:25 PM
never heard that before..... hartwig was a 3 year starter at guard in college, so its not like he isn't familiar with the position. i'd say hartwig is an upgrade over mahan, but i don't think he's played well enough to be content with. i've never seen ben gain a full yard on a qb sneak.....:wink02:

Yeah, Hartwig was just the odd guy out. He was the Center in Tenn but Mawae pushed him out and made him expendible. Same too with Ryan Kalil in Carolina. Panthers have a good O line of Gross, Wharton, Kalil and they probably see Vincent as a better true guard than Hartwig.

If Mack is picked, I think he would be on the Mike Pollack apprenticeship plan. Pollack is a center that is playing guard for the Colts and when Jeff Saturday retires.....I fully expect him to slide over to center. So too would be the same with Mack. He would be the LG and backup C in his rookie season, then in year 2, Hartwig will either be retained as depth or released in the final year of his 3 year contract.

I want to see Alex Mack selected by the Steelers.......but because I want it, it wont happen.

MasterOfPuppets
01-23-2009, 11:33 PM
Yeah, Hartwig was just the odd guy out. He was the Center in Tenn but Mawae pushed him out and made him expendible. Same too with Ryan Kalil in Carolina. Panthers have a good O line of Gross, Wharton, Kalil and they probably see Vincent as a better true guard than Hartwig.

If Mack is picked, I think he would be on the Mike Pollack apprenticeship plan. Pollack is a center that is playing guard for the Colts and when Jeff Saturday retires.....I fully expect him to slide over to center. So too would be the same with Mack. He would be the LG and backup C in his rookie season, then in year 2, Hartwig will either be retained as depth or released in the final year of his 3 year contract.

I want to see Alex Mack selected by the Steelers.......but because I want it, it wont happen.so that tells me that two teams weren't content with hartings level of play....

my god.....i just realized the steelers have NEVER picked the player i pimp in the 1st rd !!! :doh:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2009, 11:35 PM
that says it all right there.....i'm tired of seeing the centers of late not being able to get a push.....we need a guy that not just holds the point of attack, but can actually win the battle and move the pile.

Did you see the Cal vs Miami bowl game??

The Canes DT Antonio Dixon is listed as 335lbs and in the first quarter he took some huge runs at Mack. He stood Mack up and neutralized him at the line. Then a couple plays later I think Mack must have wore him down, because they again collide and stalemate each other until Mack seems to start his feet moving forward, gets under Dixon's pads before turning him and driving him to the ground.

The battle between Mack and the 335lb Dixon was similar to a couple of bighorn sheep battling for supremacy and after Mack threw him to the ground so viciously........he was owned. As a former O lineman, I so much loved watching it that I rewound it on my video recorder at least 8 times to watch it. :thumbsup:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-23-2009, 11:38 PM
so that tells me that two teams weren't content with hartings level of play....

: No, I think they were just like us and knew that Hartwig was not the long term answer at center. Being replaced by Mawae and Kalil isnt a shameful thing, but the Steelers know his 3 year deal means he is expendable.

After watching the preseason battle game by game. Hartwig is much better than Mahan, but still not a top 10 center.

SunshineMan21
01-24-2009, 01:02 AM
Hartwig has probably been our best O-lineman this year. Not a Pro-Bowler, but he's earned his paycheck much better than Mahan did.

Texasteel
01-24-2009, 06:23 AM
so that tells me that two teams weren't content with hartings level of play....

my god.....i just realized the steelers have NEVER picked the player i pimp in the 1st rd !!! :doh:

We'll just have to break that tradition this year. :drink:

Aussie_steeler
01-24-2009, 07:48 PM
Did you see the Cal vs Miami bowl game??

The Canes DT Antonio Dixon is listed as 335lbs and in the first quarter he took some huge runs at Mack. He stood Mack up and neutralized him at the line. Then a couple plays later I think Mack must have wore him down, because they again collide and stalemate each other until Mack seems to start his feet moving forward, gets under Dixon's pads before turning him and driving him to the ground.

The battle between Mack and the 335lb Dixon was similar to a couple of bighorn sheep battling for supremacy and after Mack threw him to the ground so viciously........he was owned. As a former O lineman, I so much loved watching it that I rewound it on my video recorder at least 8 times to watch it. :thumbsup:

I have watched that game again and I agree that was a true wow moment where I really started to like Alex Mack even more.

Also it showed some good qualities in Dixon who would be great value in the 5th and beyond.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-24-2009, 08:25 PM
I have watched that game again and I agree that was a true wow moment where I really started to like Alex Mack even more.

Also it showed some good qualities in Dixon who would be great value in the 5th and beyond.
True that Dixon opened my eyes a bit there. He showed an intensity and quickness that I liked, but not the stamina to maintain that effort over the length of the game. Might be a decent prospect to look at later in the draft as you say.

lilyoder6
01-24-2009, 08:27 PM
i'm just hoping there is not another o-line scare like last yr where evryone was drafting o-line no matter what

KeiselPower99
01-24-2009, 09:04 PM
Hartwig has probably been our best O-lineman this year. Not a Pro-Bowler, but he's earned his paycheck much better than Mahan did.

He came to work and has put in an honest hard working effort every week.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-25-2009, 11:11 AM
He came to work and has put in an honest hard working effort every week.

So did Sean Mahan last year.

I never faulted Mahan for his effort, but he was just a bit too small and not strong enough to handle the big NT's and the point of attack. Hartwig can.