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View Full Version : Brett Favre, the greatest of all-time?


LambertIsGod58
12-31-2005, 08:20 AM
Does anyone else think it's a mistake for Favre to retire at the end of the year? If you look at his numbers, he's almost at 4,000 yds this year. His only problem is that he's trying to do too much on his own. That's the reason for the high number of int's. I think Favre is the best of all time. If you look at his stats, he rivals Marino's numbers and he's player 3-4 less seasons. He's beaten alot of Elway's numbers. I think Favre is still in the top 10 QB's in the league and should come back as GB's best chance to win in '06. He's the toughest S.O.B. I've ever seen. Look at his consecutive starts streak. Maybe I'm too much like John Madden. He is criticized for having a man crush on Favre. I think he just knows a great player when he sees one. He use to day the same things about Rice, Montana and Elway.

LambertIsGod58
12-31-2005, 08:21 AM
I'm thinking about changing my screen name to FavreIsGod4.....BB2W, can you help me out with another avatar? LOL, joking I think.....

LambertIsGod58
12-31-2005, 08:27 AM
Favre has played 2 fewer seasons than Elway and has thrown 95 more TD passes. He's only 25 away from Marino's mark and he played 3 more seasons than Favre. I believe I have made my case beyond a reasonable doubt.

clevestinks
12-31-2005, 08:40 AM
First let me say don`t change LambertisGod. That happens to be a great sig. lambert was better than Favre. Well at his position anyway. lambert is probably top three lb ever. Favre is possibly top 15 qb ever.

As far as Favre retiring, I would hope that he wouldn`t. His team sucks, who ever they had they lost to FA, or were injured. With that said, is there any chance that he will have a better supporting cast next year? I doubt it, he and the packers are in a difficult position. I hate to see the greats go. HOF Class of 2010 should be a good one.

Stlrs4Life
12-31-2005, 09:33 AM
He is a great QB, still hate to think it, but believe Otto Graham was the best.

pitt
12-31-2005, 10:38 AM
He is a great QB. I hope he sticks around another year or two at least.

Rotorhead
12-31-2005, 11:15 AM
How much of a shocker would it be if he . . . switched teams for one more chance at another ring? There are lost of teams out there that are a QB away from a good run.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-31-2005, 11:19 AM
Favre should only come back if the team makes a concentrated effort this offseason to get him an offensive line and shows a commitment to protecting him in the pocket and getting him another WR.

BB2W
12-31-2005, 11:53 AM
I have never been a big Favre fan... I don't know if I even know where to put him in my top ten. From what I've seen, It would be something like this... the jury is still out on Peyton, he may go down as the best ever.

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. John Elway
4. Jonny Unitas
5. Troy Aikman
6. Steve Young
7. Dan Fouts
8. Terry Bradshaw
9. Jim Kelly
10. ???Moon, Farve, Tarkenton, Namath, Staubach???

There has been a lot of great quarterbacks...

LambertIsGod58
12-31-2005, 12:00 PM
Bradshaw threw almost as many int's as he did TD's. 28,000 yds over a 14 yr career is only 2,000 passing yards a year. He meant alot those dynasty years, but top 10 of all-time no way IMO.

SteelerDan43
12-31-2005, 12:13 PM
I have to agree with Lambert on this one, Bradshaw was great in the playoffs but mediocre in the regular season

Cape Cod Steel Head
12-31-2005, 12:29 PM
He is one of the greats, but in no way the greatest. As far as retirement it depends on what he wants to accomplish. He's not going to win another SB in Green Bay. I not sure that he could win it anywhere else in the NFL that needs a QB.If he wants to go for records then stick around, but it sure was painful watching him this year, and I wouldn't want to witness that again.

tony hipchest
12-31-2005, 01:17 PM
Bradshaw threw almost as many int's as he did TD's. 28,000 yds over a 14 yr career is only 2,000 passing yards a year. He meant alot those dynasty years, but top 10 of all-time no way IMO.

in comparisson with brady and montana:

-throw out the int. and yds. numbers. bradshaw was a huge gambler and risk taker.
-look at the ammount of games bradshaw missed
-bradshaw ran his own offense
-bradshaw never played in an offense where the passing game was an extension of the running game (west coast offense) he even says his numbers would be tremendous in a west coast style offense
-bradshaw was tough as nails and one hell of a scrambler.


farve and probably elway remind me of bradshaw more than any other qb's.
on the fox pre game show bradshaw commented recently that he rarely uses the term "best ever" but that farve was it.

i think farve should continue playing. not to pad stats, or for false hopes of another ring, but for the love of the game and the competition and commaraderie of sundays.

as a sidenote, on inside nfl this week he sounded like the prospects of playing in a different uniform would creep him out.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-31-2005, 01:30 PM
No champion wants to go out after such a bad season.. even if he doesnt win another SB.. you gotta think Favre will want to go out after a much better season for him and his team.

3 to be 4
12-31-2005, 02:02 PM
puh-leeeeeeeeze!!!! Im so sick of this Favre worshipping. Since Holmgren left he has been a reckless, overated, media hyped, exciting but inconsistant QB. He has lived off of one SB championship and has gotten a free ride for a loooong time.
His earlier accomplishments certainly make him a hall of famer, but to me he is below
1. Montana
2. Unitas
3. Elway
4. Staubach
5. Bradshaw
6. Graham
7. Starr
then.....its
8. Favre
9. Brady
10. Marino
11. Tarkenton
12. Fouts
13. Manning

YES...Brady over Marino and Manning. Brady, like Montana,Starr,and Staubach, is about
winning football games and championships. Marino was about aerial shows and blaming his teamates. Until Manning actually wins something (in either college or pros has NEVER shown up for a championship game) he is much like Marino.

Hey, you want stats? how about Bledsoe and Testeverde? stats can tell a lot, but they dont make the QB.

LambertIsGod58
12-31-2005, 02:11 PM
Yeah, winning three MVP's means nothing I guess....

LambertIsGod58
12-31-2005, 02:13 PM
Bradshaw tough? LOL, not that is funny. Favre was in a car accident where they took out alot of his intestine and he played within a week or two. That's tough. What did Bradshaw do that was so tough?

3 to be 4
12-31-2005, 02:13 PM
Yeah, winning three MVP's means nothing I guess....


did i say it meant nothing? I put Favre at # 8 of all time. thats HARDLY an insult is it?

LambertIsGod58
12-31-2005, 02:18 PM
No, it's not an insult. Putting Bradshaw ahead of Favre on the all-time list is IMO.

tony hipchest
12-31-2005, 02:24 PM
Bradshaw tough? LOL, not that is funny. Favre was in a car accident where they took out alot of his intestine and he played within a week or two. That's tough. What did Bradshaw do that was so tough?

no question farve is the toughest qb out there. his record consecutive starts streak is undisputable. as far as bradshaw in the pocket or scrambling, he was as tough as they come. he never shied away from getting hurt or injured. much like farve or mcnair. i see ben being one of those types of qb's.

(bradshaw ended his career and final season with the tissue in his throwing shoulder turned to mush from inproper treatment and playing when he shouldnt with pain injection shots

3 to be 4
12-31-2005, 02:26 PM
No, it's not an insult. Putting Bradshaw ahead of Favre on the all-time list is IMO.


Terry Bradshaw came through in the biggest moments of the biggest games so many times its not even funny. He and Roger Staubach were the best quartebacks of that era
and to compare Favre to either one of them is just embarrassing to Favre. # 8 is fine, but
ive seen to many ridiculous moments in Favres career that the media whitewashes. If Michael Vick or Donavan McNabb or even Brady and Manning screwed up as many times as Favre they would be lambasted. Favre does it and it gets excused as "he just wants to win so badly"
take # 8 and be happy. its a great career. make your speech in Canton.
but puhleeze stop with the "best ever" garbage. or even close to it.

tony hipchest
12-31-2005, 03:25 PM
if farve played his career with the steelers during cowhers tenure hed easilly have 4 rings on his resume. same with marino. these 2 qb's were able to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

augustashark
12-31-2005, 03:44 PM
I have never been a big Favre fan... I don't know if I even know where to put him in my top ten. From what I've seen, It would be something like this... the jury is still out on Peyton, he may go down as the best ever.

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. John Elway
4. Jonny Unitas
5. Troy Aikman
6. Steve Young
7. Dan Fouts
8. Terry Bradshaw
9. Jim Kelly
10. ???Moon, Farve, Tarkenton, Namath, Staubach???

There has been a lot of great quarterbacks...


Come on man are you kidding with this list!!!!!!!!!!!

First of all you have 5 of them that played in warm weather!!! If Brett played in SD his numbers would be unreal!!!!

Montana is the best of all time.....But if Brett comes back and breaks Marino's records then its no contest, Brett is 2nd all time.....He has SB ring Marino has none!!! I love Marino but facts are facts...Marino had better WR's for longer time, hell he had Duper and Clayton for around 10yrs........

Farve will be 2nd best QB in history....Stats + wins-i.e. playoffs and SB= equation for best QB ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LambertIsGod58
12-31-2005, 04:01 PM
Four SB games don't make a career....Look up the word "career" in Webster's Dictionary and then talk. He came up big in the SB's. That's it. He was a rookie in 1970 and didn't throw for 300yds until 1978. He was also taken in and out of the starting spot for his first five or six years. How many of the greatest of all-time did that happen to? It's great to be a diehard Steelers fan and all, but I am so sick of it taking away the objectivity you should have.

clevestinks
12-31-2005, 04:07 PM
I love Bradshaw, so I wouldn`t be a good one to get in this subject!

LambertIsGod58
12-31-2005, 04:11 PM
Bradshaw is one of the greatest SB QB's of all-time....Big difference. Bradshaw and Montana then I guess are #'s 1 & 2 the best of all-time? Not saying that you said it Cleve...Being a fan of Bradshaw's, which I am, shouldn't cloud judgement his career. Stats don't lie.

tony hipchest
12-31-2005, 04:48 PM
Bradshaw is one of the greatest SB QB's of all-time....Big difference. Bradshaw and Montana then I guess are #'s 1 & 2 the best of all-time? Not saying that you said it Cleve...Being a fan of Bradshaw's, which I am, shouldn't cloud judgement his career. Stats don't lie.

how can you deny bradshaws 7 rings?




sure 3 of them were of the wedding variety........:grin:

agreed though, that 3>4's placement of farve and staubach were WAY off.

and bradshaw will always be the greatest person to ever play qb. (note the subtle difference between "greatest qb")

3 to be 4
12-31-2005, 05:12 PM
just curious how many of you guys were actualy old enough to watch Bradshaw and Staubach play or are you just going by the stats thing? Roger Staubach was the most feared clutch QB of his generation. He didnt heave up interceptions with no receiver around in playoff games like Favre. And its easy to hand imaginary rings to Marino and Favre IF they played with the 70's Steelers. But Bradshaw did it, and not just in the SB which was alleged earlier. He was solid all year during the SB years. Decision making is a big part of being a QB, so id suspect Favre would make stupid plays with Pittsburgh too.
Hey, im a Patriots fan, so its not being a Steeler "homer". And I HATED Staubach and the Cowboys all those years. Thats how i can vouch for his greatness. I hated seeing Staubach with the ball at the end of a game more than anybody. I guess its how you all feel when my boy Brady has it now.
one more point about stats + playoff wins and SB.........
before hes done Drew Bledsoe will pass Favre, so does that make Bledsoe the second best QB ever? and Favre doesnt have all that many playoff wins.
by that equation Elway is far superior. 50,000 yards, more playoff wins and 2 SB wins.

tony hipchest
12-31-2005, 05:31 PM
there is good argument for elway being considered the greatest of all time. farve or marino with the cowher led steelers, wouldve won 3-4. farve never had the receiving core of the '95 steelers or a h.o.f. rb like kordell, maddox, ofr ben. marino either. let alone the steelers defense.

i can list you 4 afc champ games at home and 1 sb where farve or marino wouldve easilly come up 5x more cluch than with their respective teams

Suitanim
12-31-2005, 05:34 PM
Favre deserves to be mentioned among the greatest (say top 10) QB's of all time, but he's, in my book, the greatest "gunslinger" of all time. Nobody ever made as many improbable plays or impossible throws as Favre. And he's easily the toughest guy to ever play the position.

Mike Sherman once said that he had an almost miracle-like ability to heal in an interview...the interviewer started to laugh until he noticed Sherman wasn't joking. Sherman said he'd sustain an injury on Sunday that would sideline any other player for at least a game, and not only would Favre be ready for the next game, he'd be back at practice and fine by Wednesday.

There was a time when I didn't care much for Favre...saw him show up at 7AM for the QB challenge drunk, and other stuff like that, but I've begrudgingly gained an incredible amount of respect for his ability over the years.

CantStop85
12-31-2005, 05:45 PM
Favre deserves to be mentioned among the greatest (say top 10) QB's of all time, but he's, in my book, the greatest "gunslinger" of all time. Nobody ever made as many improbable plays or impossible throws as Favre. And he's easily the toughest guy to ever play the position.

Mike Sherman once said that he had an almost miracle-like ability to heal in an interview...the interviewer started to laugh until he noticed Sherman wasn't joking. Sherman said he'd sustain an injury on Sunday that would sideline any other player for at least a game, and not only would Favre be ready for the next game, he'd be back at practice and fine by Wednesday.

There was a time when I didn't care much for Favre...saw him show up at 7AM for the QB challenge drunk, and other stuff like that, but I've begrudgingly gained an incredible amount of respect for his ability over the years.
Darn it Suit, you beat me to it. Yeah, Favre made a lot of mistakes during his career, but that was his style. He was (well I guess he still is) a gun-slinger. He's always going for the big play and most of the time he gets it while making a few mistakes along the way. If I needed a QB to lead a comeback for my team, I don't know of many other people who I would put in front of him. Not to mention this guy is tough as they come. He never misses a game (as is evident by his current streak).

Suitanim
12-31-2005, 05:48 PM
All that being said, I'd like to see him hang it up...the Pack is at LEAST a couple years away from contending again, and he has nothing left to prove.

CantStop85
12-31-2005, 05:56 PM
All that being said, I'd like to see him hang it up...the Pack is at LEAST a couple years away from contending again, and he has nothing left to prove.
I'd like to see him go to another team, but he would never do that and the team he went to probably wouldn't be a contender either. If I were him and the packers made a few good moves in the off-season I might give it one more shot...but I think the Packers are ready to rebuild at this point.

3 to be 4
12-31-2005, 06:00 PM
[QUOTE farve never had the receiving core of the '95 steelers or a h.o.f. rb [/QUOTE]

huh??????????????????
Freeman and Rison? Ahman Green? hes had plenty of weapons.

tony hipchest
12-31-2005, 06:04 PM
if i could id give farve rep points for showing up to the qb challenge drunk! that was probably the one where he threw the ball 80 yards. fishing vicodins out of his puke in the toilet earns rep points to (of course there is a soft spot there, since greg lloyd breaking his jaw introduced him to the vic's!)

tony hipchest
12-31-2005, 06:09 PM
huh??????????????????
Freeman and Rison? Ahman Green? hes had plenty of weapons.

j graham, e. mills, y. thigpen, c. johnson, a. hastings and k. stewart.
are you telling me he EVER had a receiving core like that??????

a. green is good but it was d. levens who he rode to the sb. neither will come close to matching the career of jerome bettis. sure reggie white was great but has he consistantly had the types of defenses the steelers have fielded in the past 14 years?

tell me more about freeman and rison *snicker* you forgot sterling sharpe, the best wr he ever had.

figg
12-31-2005, 08:31 PM
1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Marino

Farve is ahead of Aikman IMO.

3 to be 4
12-31-2005, 09:33 PM
[QUOTE=tony hipchest]j graham, e. mills, y. thigpen, c. johnson, a. hastings and k. stewart.
are you telling me he EVER had a receiving core like that??????

QUOTE]



is this a serious post? i know you probably live in Pittsburgh and everything but...
was that a serious post?????????

hello, 49er fan? yeah, this is 3 to be 4, you know how you thought Rice and Taylor were good? well, someone here just reminded me about graham,mills,thigpen,johnson,hastings and stewart..........

3 to be 4
12-31-2005, 09:38 PM
j graham, e. mills, y. thigpen, c. johnson, a. hastings and k. stewart.
are you telling me he EVER had a receiving core like that??????

a. green is good but it was d. levens who he rode to the sb. neither will come close to matching the career of jerome bettis. sure reggie white was great but has he consistantly had the types of defenses the steelers have fielded in the past 14 years?

tell me more about freeman and rison *snicker* you forgot sterling sharpe, the best wr he ever had.


so bottom line.......you think the 1995 Steelers were anything close to the 1996 Packers?????????????

3 to be 4
01-02-2006, 05:24 AM
Career Interceptions

Vinnie Testerverde 261
Brett Favre 255

'nuff said.

my all time ranking i made a huge error. i forgot to put Aikman in there. I'll make Aikman, #10, behind Brady.
Montana
Unitas
Elway
Bradshaw
Staubach
Graham
Starr
Favre
Brady
Aikman
Marino
Tarkenton
Fouts
Manning

tony hipchest
01-02-2006, 11:42 AM
so bottom line.......you think the 1995 Steelers were anything close to the 1996 Packers????????????? anything close? they were both in the superbowl right? or are you asking if the steelers won the sb in 95? the best barometer for this would probably be the final game of the 95 season when pittsburgh faced the packers at home. both teams were very evenly matched.

are you backing off your stance of the greatness of rison and freeman? you wanna throw in desmond howards huge offensive numbers? don beebe?

the fact is you are so easilly chosing to ignore is that all 5 receivers on the 95 steelers were or became starters in the nfl. kordell wouldve been the 6th, and a pro bowler to boot, if he chose to play wr. try telling me when b. farve had that type of offensive depth without the lame jerry rice and j taylor comments. they dont do much to support your weak stance.

ill even let you throw kieth jackson into the mix.

3 to be 4
01-02-2006, 01:26 PM
Desmond Howard was nore of an impact player than any of the Steelers you mentioned, in fact, HE was the key to the SB win over the Patriots, not Favre. I never called Freeman or Rison "great", but as a tandem they were a more solid championship caliber duo than anything the Steelers had. Its quality, not quantity. like i said, we had Charles Johnson in NE and he's best known as the guy who stuck his mug into the camera first after Vinatieris kick beat the Rams in the SB, thats about it.
And if the talent level of Steelers has been SO great, that only strenghtens the arguement of folks who think Cowher is a very good coach but hardly a great one.

3 to be 4
01-02-2006, 01:27 PM
by the way, how about Favres 255 career interceptions???

tony hipchest
01-02-2006, 02:55 PM
desmonds impact was on special teams, not offense which is what we were talking about. he was an offensive flop.

farves interceptions would be down if he had solid receiving corps with depth. its no coincidence neil odonnell still has the record for fewest interceptions per pass attempts of any qb

3 to be 4
01-03-2006, 08:01 PM
desmonds impact was on special teams, not offense which is what we were talking about. he was an offensive flop.

farves interceptions would be down if he had solid receiving corps with depth. its no coincidence neil odonnell still has the record for fewest interceptions per pass attempts of any qb


hahahahaha thats what i love about stats. think of the irony. Neil O'Donnell has the record for fewest int's per pass attempt. hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
thats like saying Scott Norwood has the best all time record for 40 + on grass or Ralph Branca has the best save percentage of all time. hahahahahahahahahahaha

i know i know its off the train of thought but i found that funny. sorry.

anyways when comparing the 95 Steelers and 96 Packers and saying its only a difference between winning and losing a SB im reminded of the one thing Madden says i really agree with, theres no greater gap in sports. Senator, (spoken as a Patriots fan), i knew the 96 Packers, we played the 96 Packers, the 96 Packers beat our butts, Senator, the 95 Steelers were no 96 Packers.....

tony hipchest
01-03-2006, 08:21 PM
i see watching 1 game 10 years ago hasnt given you much football insight. madden tends to ramble and say a bunch of nonsense about nothing. but nice deflectionary tactics to take this topic way off track. fact is farve never had a wr corps as deep as the 95 steelers. not desmond howard, not don beebe, regardles of what great special teamers they were. there contributions were on special teams.

I.C. Lights
01-03-2006, 09:49 PM
I'd have Montana, Unitas and Aikman as my top three and Favre would probably come in as a 8 or 9. It's funny how its never enough to remember someone as "really good" or even "one of the best" - everyone has to be the best.

3 to be 4
01-04-2006, 04:38 AM
I'd have Montana, Unitas and Aikman as my top three and Favre would probably come in as a 8 or 9. It's funny how its never enough to remember someone as "really good" or even "one of the best" - everyone has to be the best.


THANK YOU! every time i guy retires the media has to elevate him. im sure if the Colts win the SB they'll start the "are the Colts the best ever? " or "Is Manning the best ever?" stuff. And, NO, i dont think the Patriots are the best ever so dont even start......

Why cant it be left that Favre was an exciting and great player who for a stretch in the 90's was fabulous? As ive said numerous times id put him at # 8. He is NO WAY better than that.

In fact, Tony, lets cut right to it. Favre vs Montana. Flip the teams. You have a better case arguing that Favre could have won the 4 SB's with the 49ers than the other way around. Put Montana on the Packers and they win SB's in 1995 and 1997 and possibly
1998 and 2001. Montana was everything Favre was without the mistakes. People forget his running ability in the early years. In 1984 especially, when the 49ers were 15-1, Montana was the most complete QB ever seen.

tony hipchest
01-04-2006, 09:30 AM
ok i flipped the teams. it seems you think there were alot of great packer teams and farve held them back. you put montana on the steelers and they win the superbowl every year between 92-06 (including 1995, 1997, 1998, 2001, and last year and then again this year).

interresting note in comparing the steelers and packers-since 92 when farve and cowher both started, the 2 teams have the highest number of wins in the league, if not top 3 (that stat might have changed over the course of this year)

tony hipchest
01-04-2006, 11:48 AM
interresting note in comparing the steelers and packers-since 92 when farve and cowher both started, the 2 teams have the highest number of wins in the league, if not top 3 (that stat might have changed over the course of this year)

i came across the numbers while reading an article on recent coach firings:

"Since Cowher took over the Steelers in 1992, there have been 93 head coaching changes in the NFL. He has the longest tenure with the same franchise among active coaches, and the Steelers have the NFL's best record (141-82-1, .632) since his arrival. Green Bay (141-83) is second and Denver (138-86) is third."

oddly enough farves 1st career start was in 92 vs. pittsburgh in cowhers head coaching debut.

3 to be 4
01-04-2006, 06:43 PM
ok i flipped the teams. it seems you think there were alot of great packer teams and farve held them back. you put montana on the steelers and they win the superbowl every year between 92-06 (including 1995, 1997, 1998, 2001, and last year and then again this year).

interresting note in comparing the steelers and packers-since 92 when farve and cowher both started, the 2 teams have the highest number of wins in the league, if not top 3 (that stat might have changed over the course of this year)


its not a case of "Favre holding them back". Its that Montana was better than Favre.

And if you put Montana on the Steelers he wins more Super Bowls than Favre would.
Im not going to say Montana wins 15 straight SB's with the Steelers. In 1992 and 1993 Dallas still would have been better. And in 1994 the 49ers still might have been too strong. But I agree about 1995 and 1997 certainly. Not 1998, the Broncos were too strong and the Steelers had a down year. In 2001 certainly and probably 2002 as well.
Montana at his peak would get them past Oakland and TB. 2003 the Patriots were too strong. But id certainly give the Steelers with Montana the nod over the Patriots in 2004.
And this year as well.

So... how many SB's does Montana win for the Cowher Steelers? 1995,1997,2001,2002,2004,2005. 6 Championships

with Favre i dont give them 1995. the 1995 Cowboys trounced the Favre led Packers and that Packer team matched the Steelers.
id give Favre 1997. The Rams picked him off 6 times in 2001 and it took a coaching miracle by Belichick to beat that Ram team which i dont feel the 2001 Steelers were capable of. its arguable, but i dont give him 2001. With Montana I would as he could carry out a mistake free game, or at least not throw 6 INTS..
id give Favre 2002. he could get them past the Titans,Raiders, and Bucs. Not 2003, the Steelers as a team werent strong enough, even with Montana. Id give them last year.
And Favre at his peak could take this years Steelers past the Colts and the rest.
So..thats 1997,2002,2004,2005 for Favre 4 Championships

just for fun...and to stir up everybody.......how about Tom Brady?
i'll give you first shot.

tony hipchest
01-04-2006, 07:14 PM
its not a case of "Favre holding them back". Its that Montana was better than Favre.

And if you put Montana on the Steelers he wins more Super Bowls than Favre would.
Im not going to say Montana wins 15 straight SB's with the Steelers. In 1992 and 1993 Dallas still would have been better. And in 1994 the 49ers still might have been too strong. But I agree about 1995 and 1997 certainly. Not 1998, the Broncos were too strong and the Steelers had a down year. In 2001 certainly and probably 2002 as well.
Montana at his peak would get them past Oakland and TB. 2003 the Patriots were too strong. But id certainly give the Steelers with Montana the nod over the Patriots in 2004.
And this year as well.

So... how many SB's does Montana win for the Cowher Steelers? 1995,1997,2001,2002,2004,2005. 6 Championships

with Favre i dont give them 1995. the 1995 Cowboys trounced the Favre led Packers and that Packer team matched the Steelers.
id give Favre 1997. The Rams picked him off 6 times in 2001 and it took a coaching miracle by Belichick to beat that Ram team which i dont feel the 2001 Steelers were capable of. its arguable, but i dont give him 2001. With Montana I would as he could carry out a mistake free game, or at least not throw 6 INTS..
id give Favre 2002. he could get them past the Titans,Raiders, and Bucs. Not 2003, the Steelers as a team werent strong enough, even with Montana. Id give them last year.
And Favre at his peak could take this years Steelers past the Colts and the rest.
So..thats 1997,2002,2004,2005 for Favre 4 Championships

just for fun...and to stir up everybody.......how about Tom Brady?
i'll give you first shot.

well since i get 1st shot....brady doesnt win a champ without belichick, nor does he even get a shot at a starting job!:grin: i have thought about this because if you look at the qb drafted right before brady------tee martin by the pittsburgh steelers (in the same round i believe) i wonder who was higher on the patriots board? the national champ winning qb or brady? did they target brady all along or did circumstances land him in their lap? if the steelers didnt draft martin is that who they wouldve taken? i dont know but it is interresting to think about. but then again so is the steelers passing on dan marino. the 80's and 90's coulda been so much different if they didnt pass on the hometown favorite.

(oh and i gotta agree with montanna and the 6 champs w/ the steelers. 14 or 15 is asking alot. hell even bradshaw couldnt win that many with the steel curtain) i would also agree with farve at 4. that says alot about the clubs cowher has put together, infact with a bonafide farve or montana style qb they woulda had a good shot at going undefeated and winning the sb last year. bonehead madox sucked in every game he played in ...even the 2 wins against oakland and the bills

3 to be 4
01-04-2006, 07:35 PM
well since i get 1st shot....brady doesnt win a champ without belichick, nor does he even get a shot at a starting job!:grin: i have thought about this because if you look at the qb drafted right before brady------tee martin by the pittsburgh steelers (in the same round i believe) i wonder who was higher on the patriots board? the national champ winning qb or brady? did they target brady all along or did circumstances land him in their lap? if the steelers didnt draft martin is that who they wouldve taken? i dont know but it is interresting to think about. but then again so is the steelers passing on dan marino. the 80's and 90's coulda been so much different if they didnt pass on the hometown favorite.

(oh and i gotta agree with montanna and the 6 champs w/ the steelers. 14 or 15 is asking alot. hell even bradshaw couldnt win that many with the steel curtain) i would also agree with farve at 4. that says alot about the clubs cowher has put together, infact with a bonafide farve or montana style qb they woulda had a good shot at going undefeated and winning the sb last year. bonehead madox sucked in every game he played in ...even the 2 wins against oakland and the bills


ok then, so obviously its clear Belichick is much better than Cowher since Brady couldnt win a SB with Cowher.
What in tarnation does it matter what the Patriots thought of Brady in 2000? Its what they think now.
now, to give my two cents on the question you didnt answer seriously.

Brady could have won that SB in 1995.
Brady could have certainly taken the Steelers past the Broncos and Packers in 1997.
Not in 2001. the 2001 Steelers could not have played the defense against the Rams the Patriots did.
Brady could have taken the 2002 Steelers over the top. 2004 and 2005 too.
thats five. the difference is 1995. for some reason Favre didnt ever play well vs that Dallas team. Brady could play the disciplined mistake free style that would have lent itself to the Steelers running game.
Im not saying Brady is better all time than Favre. I have FAvre #8 and Brady #9.
But the matchups of the years favored Brady.

by the way..Brady's career aint over. 5..7...10 more years like this and hes in the top 4 with Montana,Unitas, and Elway.

tony hipchest
01-04-2006, 07:50 PM
"What in tarnation does it matter what the Patriots thought of Brady in 2000? Its what they think now."

you dont ever wonder?


anyways brady is easilly better than the likes of odonnell, graham, tomzak, kordell, maddox, and ben as a rookie. that is simple and i would have to agree he wouldve easilly won the sb in 95 and 4 afc games lost at home.

the steelers were the #1 defense in the nfl and the #3 offense in 2001 (oddly enough the rams were #1 o and #3 d) and i think as long as the steelers db's mugged the rams receivers and marshall faulk like the patriots did, they wouldve won that one like the pats did. i dont think the steelers woulda been 14 point underdogs but i bet it woulda been 7-10.

i think we can agree on the fact that cowher isnt quite the "choker" everyone makes him out to be and that behind all of the great coaches stands a great qb. that is why steelerfans are so excited about the prospects of ben being here a long time and developing into what we believe will be the link cowher has been missing.


(feel free to offer some insight on what the pats were looking at in the 6th round of 2000, i still wonder what the steelers woulda done if matt jones and heath miller woulda both been on the board when they drafted last year)

3 to be 4
01-04-2006, 08:07 PM
in general, they were looking at the same thing the other 31 teams were. And they were obviously wrong. the story is that they were deciding between Brady and Tim Rattay and that it was the late Dick Reihbein who pushed for Brady. He was drafted as a similar QB to Bledsoe. What they didnt realize was how Brady worked on himself to improve in areas that couldnt be predicted. Hes obsessed with mechanics, with practice, with doing all the little things. Everything Bledsoe had little patience for. Bledsoe did everything that was asked, and little else. Brady would do more. So i give ther credit to Brady for improving himself, and then listening to his coaches.

i could go on and on about Bledsoe, but thats another thread. Just look at the tape just after won SB 36. Brady is through the roof. Bledsoe looks like if they were alone he'd kill Brady. to this day in interviews he calls winning that SB less important than the disappointment in not playing. Gee, what a team player!