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Brady12
01-02-2006, 03:45 PM
Yes, I'm going out on a limb here. Indianapolis will not get past the AFC Championship Game. I guarantee it. They will fall to Pittsburgh, New England, Cincinnati, or Denver.

*puts on Another one bites the dust*

Livinginthe past
01-02-2006, 04:27 PM
Yes, I'm going out on a limb here. Indianapolis will not get past the AFC Championship Game. I guarantee it. They will fall to Pittsburgh, New England, Cincinnati, or Denver.

*puts on Another one bites the dust*

I dont think discounting 1 option from a total of 6 is really going out on a limb.

If i put aside bias I would have the Bronco's as the best team in the AFC with the Colts just behind that.

NM

tony hipchest
01-02-2006, 04:33 PM
I dont think discounting 1 option from a total of 6 is really going out on a limb.

If i put aside bias I would have the Bronco's as the best team in the AFC with the Colts just behind that.

NM

the broncos are to the colts what the colts WERE to the patriots.

i am amazed that patfans of all people cannot recognize this.

BlitzburghRockCity
01-02-2006, 04:33 PM
6 weeks ago I probably would have told you the colts were not gonna lose more than 1 at the rate they were going and that even though I didnt think they'd go undefeated they'd probably steam roll thru the playoffs..

but since the chargers exposed them and even the fact that when we played them, we held their offense to only 2 TD's and had we had any type of offense that day we maybe could have won.. but who knows.

clevestinks
01-02-2006, 04:34 PM
I don`t see Cinci winning one game! Other than that, I do agree that Indy is over rated! I still haven`t seen Denver at all his year. The pats have the experience! And we have the BUS! Whta better reason to motivate your team, than to want to win one for Da Bus?

Livinginthe past
01-02-2006, 04:47 PM
the broncos are to the colts what the colts WERE to the patriots.

i am amazed that patfans of all people cannot recognize this.

I can totally recognize the fact that the Pats have had the Colts numbers in the big game in recent years.

I can also recognize the fact that the Pats have also has the Steelers number.

Im trying to remain unbiased and look at the playoffs in terms of tangibles such as strength of record and quality of performance.

All the Colts and Steelers fans have been saying all year is - the run must end (maybe even you said this) regarding the hold the Patriots currently have over both of the above teams - it stands to reason that the Broncos can also end that run of results.

NM

tony hipchest
01-02-2006, 06:00 PM
I can totally recognize the fact that the Pats have had the Colts numbers in the big game in recent years.

I can also recognize the fact that the Pats have also has the Steelers number.

Im trying to remain unbiased and look at the playoffs in terms of tangibles such as strength of record and quality of performance.

All the Colts and Steelers fans have been saying all year is - the run must end (maybe even you said this) regarding the hold the Patriots currently have over both of the above teams - it stands to reason that the Broncos can also end that run of results.

NM

all the pats fans have been saying (maybe even you said this) that the colts couldnt possibly beat the pats because of past failures. why wouldnt the same hold true for denver vs. colts? or does it not work both ways? how convinient. heres some intangibles: peyton actually has big game experience and the colts pretty much handled the patriots (with brady, bilicheck, vinatieri and the best big game clutch defense in the league). indy has a better qb than denver and a better rb, and i think there defens is ranked higher... dont mean a indy victory is inevitable but i do think denver is beatable (even by the steelers)

Livinginthe past
01-02-2006, 07:07 PM
all the pats fans have been saying (maybe even you said this) that the colts couldnt possibly beat the pats because of past failures. why wouldnt the same hold true for denver vs. colts? or does it not work both ways? how convinient. heres some intangibles: peyton actually has big game experience and the colts pretty much handled the patriots (with brady, bilicheck, vinatieri and the best big game clutch defense in the league). indy has a better qb than denver and a better rb, and i think there defens is ranked higher... dont mean a indy victory is inevitable but i do think denver is beatable (even by the steelers)

Thats a nice try Tony.

But im afraid im not going to let you simply copy/paste my own argument back at me with the names of the teams altered.

Steeler fans have been saying all season that the Patriots domination of them 'has to end sometime', that these things 'work in cycles'.

Now - if that holds true then it reasonable to assume that the Broncos (who match up well against the Colts on paper) should be very capable of beating their nemesis - the Colts.

If, however you disagree with this - then you are basically saying that the Steelers will not be able to get over the hump against the Patriots either.

You cant have your cake and eat it Tony - either psychological domination is an ongoing factor or its not.

Oh, and I know you really dont believe that the Pats D that the Colts faced in the regular season will bear any real resembelence to the one they may/ may not meet in the playoffs.

NM

Brady12
01-02-2006, 07:14 PM
all the pats fans have been saying (maybe even you said this) that the colts couldnt possibly beat the pats because of past failures. why wouldnt the same hold true for denver vs. colts? or does it not work both ways? how convinient. heres some intangibles: peyton actually has big game experience and the colts pretty much handled the patriots (with brady, bilicheck, vinatieri and the best big game clutch defense in the league). indy has a better qb than denver and a better rb, and i think there defens is ranked higher... dont mean a indy victory is inevitable but i do think denver is beatable (even by the steelers)

Sorry to ruin the party, but that Monday night game was perfect weather. No snow, wasn't very cold. I still don't think Peyton can beat the Pats in our weather. and we won't find that out this season either.

CantStop85
01-02-2006, 07:31 PM
I believe the patriots would have the best shot at the colts. To beat the colts, you have to have a good defense, a great quarterback, and a good offensive line. First off, you have to contain the colts with your defense because no one can really stop them...that requires a good defense such as the defense of the pats. Next, you need to expose the colts' biggest weakness, their secondary, and throw the ball downfield...to do this, you need an elite quarterback such as Tom Brady and a good offensive line that can slow down the colts' pass rush enough so that the quarterback can find open receivers.

I think the bengals have the offense to do it and the steelers have the defense to do it, but the patriots are the closest to having both.

Sharkissle29
01-02-2006, 07:45 PM
I can totally recognize the fact that the Pats have had the Colts numbers in the big game in recent years.

I can also recognize the fact that the Pats have also has the Steelers number.

Im trying to remain unbiased and look at the playoffs in terms of tangibles such as strength of record and quality of performance.

All the Colts and Steelers fans have been saying all year is - the run must end (maybe even you said this) regarding the hold the Patriots currently have over both of the above teams - it stands to reason that the Broncos can also end that run of results.

NM
not only do the colts and steeler fans hate the patriots, but everyone who isnt a patriot fan will be rooting against them. no one likes dynastys if its not by there team.


the run will end.....this year

Livinginthe past
01-02-2006, 08:30 PM
not only do the colts and steeler fans hate the patriots, but everyone who isnt a patriot fan will be rooting against them. no one likes dynastys if its not by there team.


the run will end.....this year

Hey I hear ya St33ler,

Id be exactly the same if the boot was on the other foot.

I do think some neutrals like the way the Patriots win though - no big smack talkers and plenty of team ethic.

I know one poster on here would be rooting for the Pats if the Steelers go out - one of the reasons being the return of a true football player like Tedy B.

NM

Sharkissle29
01-02-2006, 09:02 PM
Hey I hear ya St33ler,

Id be exactly the same if the boot was on the other foot.

I do think some neutrals like the way the Patriots win though - no big smack talkers and plenty of team ethic.

I know one poster on here would be rooting for the Pats if the Steelers go out - one of the reasons being the return of a true football player like Tedy B.

NM
well ill admit i was definitely rooting for them when they got their first superbowl win. then another came, and i was like okay okay....and then another came, and thats when i got tired of them. the patriots were much like the yankees, but now look at them, all that money and it still cant get them a title.

but again with dynasty talks, as much as i hate the patriots....i like seeing them in the playoffs bc i like to watch them get knocked off. playoffs without the patriots is just wierd....:grin:

but i hope the patriots and steelers dont meet this year, you guys sure have our numbers. but i guess we'll have to beat you one way or the other/

tony hipchest
01-02-2006, 09:18 PM
You cant have your cake and eat it Tony

NM "or does it not work both ways? how convinient. "-tony hipchest
i see what you did there. you basically took my argument and re-phrased it into an age old cliche.

unlike most patfans i dont put so much credence into a 3 or 4 game winning streak. especially when its not involving conference rivals. owning the bengals for 15 years or the browns since they came back into the league, or even the jets 12 out of the last 13 times is a bit different though. ive never seen any group of fans more ****y or obnoxious over a little winning streak than the patfans were over the dominance of the colts (even though some of them wins werent quite dominating.) even the cowboy fans in regards to their recent dominance over the redskins which abruptly came to a halt this season.

but i understand it. the city of boston and their #1 sports franchise had suffered years of abuse at the hands of yankee fans and i can see where this fanbase would want to vent its pent up frustrations on another fanbase. however the streak over the colts came to an end and even though 75.94% of all patfans said it could never happen the excuses poured out of the floodgates as soon as it did.

augustashark
01-02-2006, 09:46 PM
not only do the colts and steeler fans hate the patriots, but everyone who isnt a patriot fan will be rooting against them. no one likes dynastys if its not by there team.


the run will end.....this year


Hey LITP.....Look he used the "hate" word.....Go ahead and ding him some rep points!!!!


St33lers, I agree!

Koopa
01-02-2006, 10:36 PM
well since i'm not a person that says shit to get on ppls good side, i'm gonna give an unbiased opinion, i do not think the colts are overrated. and i PRAY that i am wrong but they are probably gonna streamroll through the playoffs and win it all. again i hope i'm DEAD WRONG on this and we win it all for jerome (**** one for the thumb, with me it's win one for the bus). to me the chargers didn't really prove anything, the colts had a few starters not playing and they weren't really playing their hearts out.

the pats have no chance against the colts this year, the broncos ain't that good and the colts would do the same to them as they are going to do to the pats, the bengals won't get past us so they can't beat the colts. if ben steps up and not chokes again like last year then i would think we have the best chance if we play like we did against the bears and vikings, but it's very hard to see it happening based on cowhers past in big games, hell he's 0 and 3 on the road in the playoffs (of course he'll break that streak against the bengals) well i've said what i have to say if you neg rep me at least sign it so i can return the favor with an F U for having an opinion

BB2W
01-02-2006, 11:22 PM
I hope they are over rated because if we beat the Bengals we are headed to Indy...

I thought in the Monday night game against the Colts earlier this year that we could play with them, but the missed field goal by Reed, and a few more mistakes really took any momentum we had. If we are gonna beat them the second time around it will have to be a near flawless performance.

3 to be 4
01-03-2006, 05:32 AM
heres some intangibles: peyton actually has big game experience and the colts pretty much handled the patriots (with brady, bilicheck, vinatieri and the best big game clutch defense in the league).

oh be real, the Patriots of Nov 7th werent exactly intact, cdertainly not the defense.
besides, it was regular season, not the big time.

Livinginthe past
01-03-2006, 07:58 AM
"or does it not work both ways? how convinient. "-tony hipchest
i see what you did there. you basically took my argument and re-phrased it into an age old cliche.

unlike most patfans i dont put so much credence into a 3 or 4 game winning streak. especially when its not involving conference rivals. owning the bengals for 15 years or the browns since they came back into the league, or even the jets 12 out of the last 13 times is a bit different though. ive never seen any group of fans more ****y or obnoxious over a little winning streak than the patfans were over the dominance of the colts (even though some of them wins werent quite dominating.) even the cowboy fans in regards to their recent dominance over the redskins which abruptly came to a halt this season.

but i understand it. the city of boston and their #1 sports franchise had suffered years of abuse at the hands of yankee fans and i can see where this fanbase would want to vent its pent up frustrations on another fanbase. however the streak over the colts came to an end and even though 75.94% of all patfans said it could never happen the excuses poured out of the floodgates as soon as it did.

Hey Tony,

I think you should have engaged in a little research before making assertions about a "3 or 4 game winning streak"

The Patriots have OWNED the Colts franchise for over 20 YEARS - in fact ever since they became the Indianapolis Colts.

Our series record stretching back to 1984 is 31-10 - they used to be in the AFC East before the NFL gave them a nice expansion division to find their feet in.

You are welcome to redefine the meaning of dominant but the 20-3 and 24-14 recent post-season victories would have beaten the most ambitious spread bets.

Regards

NM

Livinginthe past
01-03-2006, 08:01 AM
Hey LITP.....Look he used the "hate" word.....Go ahead and ding him some rep points!!!!


St33lers, I agree!

Another in-depth analytical football related post I see, Shark - keep up the good work.

NM

tony hipchest
01-03-2006, 09:21 AM
heres some intangibles: peyton actually has big game experience and the colts pretty much handled the patriots (with brady, bilicheck, vinatieri and the best big game clutch defense in the league).

oh be real, the Patriots of Nov 7th werent exactly intact, cdertainly not the defense.
besides, it was regular season, not the big time.

ah yes another excuse for not winning a game your fanbase said it could never lose. did you not have brady, belichick, vinatieri and the best "clutch" defense in the league? and the huge foxboro homefield advantage? maybe you should be real. , because the patriots of today isnt exactly intact either, definitely not the defense.

tony hipchest
01-03-2006, 09:37 AM
Hey Tony,

I think you should have engaged in a little research before making assertions about a "3 or 4 game winning streak"

The Patriots have OWNED the Colts franchise for over 20 YEARS - in fact ever since they became the Indianapolis Colts.

Our series record stretching back to 1984 is 31-10 - they used to be in the AFC East before the NFL gave them a nice expansion division to find their feet in.

You are welcome to redefine the meaning of dominant but the 20-3 and 24-14 recent post-season victories would have beaten the most ambitious spread bets.

Regards

NM

were the patriots around 20 years ago? lol. really no one pays attention to them before tom brady and the superbowls so i was pretty much counting them and their streaks like an expansion team post 2000. just like i really didnt count any of the steelers domination over the browns pre 1999. the fanbase of the patriots is vastly different today than it was before they started winning superbowls and that was really the fanbase i was addressing. i do realize their are die hards out there who have supported their team all along through thick and thin like you. but the winning streaks and dominance over the colts wasnt even really a topic until these teams met in the playoffs several years ago. you notice how its always refered to belichicks or bradys winning streak and dominance over MANNING, and not the colts.

its funny how the media and nfl fanbase seperates the teams from the players. or one era from another. for example it used to be farve who had never lost a game below 40 degrees, not the packers. now we are hearing the same about brady and his dominance in the cold. it kind of takes away from what the team may have accomplished prior. after all brady didnt kick that ball through the snow (twice), in fact he was a micro second from handing the game away. just an interesting little side note and tangent.

Motley Nate
01-03-2006, 05:14 PM
the broncos are to the colts what the colts WERE to the patriots.

i am amazed that patfans of all people cannot recognize this.
I wouldn't bet the farm on Jake Plummer at this point in time. He's due for a typical Plummer game, which will cost them in the playoffs.

tony hipchest
01-03-2006, 06:38 PM
I wouldn't bet the farm on Jake Plummer at this point in time. He's due for a typical Plummer game, which will cost them in the playoffs. i agree 100% if the broncos are smart they will want nothing to do with the colts. there defense is much stronger than the last 2 times they faced and champ bailey cant cover everyone on offense.

Suitanim
01-04-2006, 08:46 AM
I think the NFL would like to see the "Trillion dollar Colts" win the Super Bowl. It sets bad precedent when a team overpays for it's superstar talent and then fails to win the big game. Am I saying Paul Tagliabue is gonna be on the phone to officials telling them to overturn calls against the Colts on the field? No. But I do see the Colts continuing to get away with holding on every down, and I bet the miked crowd noise continues throughout the playoffs...it'll be tough to beat the Colts this year.

Grey
01-04-2006, 11:08 AM
I think the NFL would like to see the "Trillion dollar Colts" win the Super Bowl. It sets bad precedent when a team overpays for it's superstar talent and then fails to win the big game. Am I saying Paul Tagliabue is gonna be on the phone to officials telling them to overturn calls against the Colts on the field? No. But I do see the Colts continuing to get away with holding on every down, and I bet the miked crowd noise continues throughout the playoffs...it'll be tough to beat the Colts this year.

Great point. I think if the allegations about amped up crowd noise were against the Lions, for example, there would have actually been an investigation instead of a simple letter to every team a couple of weeks later.

(For the record: yes, the artificial stadium noise angers me, but no, I don't claim that's why we lost.)

Here we go.

Grey

Livinginthe past
01-04-2006, 11:29 AM
What annoys me the most is the incesant talk in the media about this Colts team being 'one of the best ever'.

Every year with go through the same farce - the media fawn over Manning and his team - and cant wait to crown him the BEST EVER.

You hear cliches like "Manning has done it all - all he needs is the ring and he will be the best ever" - ...what about QB's who have won multiple rings?

I know fans of teams other than New England hate the praise that Brady gets - but at least it is earned - he has proved he can get it done when the heat is on.

If I hear another reference to the Mannings being the NFL's 'Royal Family' I may well vomit.

NM

tony hipchest
01-04-2006, 12:08 PM
What annoys me the most is the incesant talk in the media about this Colts team being 'one of the best ever'.

Every year with go through the same farce - the media fawn over Manning and his team - and cant wait to crown him the BEST EVER.

You hear cliches like "Manning has done it all - all he needs is the ring and he will be the best ever" - ...what about QB's who have won multiple rings?

I know fans of teams other than New England hate the praise that Brady gets - but at least it is earned - he has proved he can get it done when the heat is on.

If I hear another reference to the Mannings being the NFL's 'Royal Family' I may well vomit.

NM the nfl is a marketing machine and wether what they say about manning is a farce or not, the nfl understands that it is peoples nature (especially americans) to want to witness or be a part of greatness. barnum and bailey circus really capitalized on this with one single phrase "the greatest show on earth". nobody wanted to miss out. so its really just a marketing ploy. another example of this strange phenomenon would be the millions of people who tuned in to watch the charles and dianna wedding. for some odd reason this was huge with americans, who wanted to taste and be a small part of royalty and greatness. and to witness the best wedding ever.

i cant blame or critisize what what the nfl does placing manning on a pedestal cause i understand it for what it is. it doesnt matter if its true or not as long as it generates interest and people tune in, buy merchandise, go to the games, and keep ordering the nfl ticket (which he is the main spokesman for). ultimately it is gonna bring more revenue to raise the steelers (and 31 other teams) salary cap and help us keep the next "greatest thing"- big ben:grin:

augustashark
01-04-2006, 02:49 PM
the nfl is a marketing machine and wether what they say about manning is a farce or not, the nfl understands that it is peoples nature (especially americans) to want to witness or be a part of greatness. barnum and bailey circus really capitalized on this with one single phrase "the greatest show on earth". nobody wanted to miss out. so its really just a marketing ploy. another example of this strange phenomenon would be the millions of people who tuned in to watch the charles and dianna wedding. for some odd reason this was huge with americans, who wanted to taste and be a small part of royalty and greatness. and to witness the best wedding ever.

i cant blame or critisize what what the nfl does placing manning on a pedestal cause i understand it for what it is. it doesnt matter if its true or not as long as it generates interest and people tune in, buy merchandise, go to the games, and keep ordering the nfl ticket (which he is the main spokesman for). ultimately it is gonna bring more revenue to raise the steelers (and 31 other teams) salary cap and help us keep the next "greatest thing"- big ben:grin:


You hit it right on the head Tony, while i agree with LITP's post about Peyton not winning anything, the bottom line is $$$ and the nfl has always known where their cash cow is!

Stlrs4Life
01-04-2006, 03:05 PM
What annoys me the most is the incesant talk in the media about this Colts team being 'one of the best ever'.

Every year with go through the same farce - the media fawn over Manning and his team - and cant wait to crown him the BEST EVER.

You hear cliches like "Manning has done it all - all he needs is the ring and he will be the best ever" - ...what about QB's who have won multiple rings?

I know fans of teams other than New England hate the praise that Brady gets - but at least it is earned - he has proved he can get it done when the heat is on.

If I hear another reference to the Mannings being the NFL's 'Royal Family' I may well vomit.

NM



I see what you mean. It does get old. But you must admit that they are all over Brady also. I just don't think anybody will beat the Colts this year. Right now if ya ask me, it'll be the Patriots and Colts in the AFCCG. The NFL also wants that rematch from Nov.

Livinginthe past
01-04-2006, 03:40 PM
I see what you mean. It does get old. But you must admit that they are all over Brady also. I just don't think anybody will beat the Colts this year. Right now if ya ask me, it'll be the Patriots and Colts in the AFCCG. The NFL also wants that rematch from Nov.

Yup I agree - there is plenty of Brady worship in the media - however at least the media waited until AFTER he had achieved his 2nd SB win before giving him the credit he deserved.

Manning has had this praise from day 1 - he has had an offense built around him - quality RB and some of the best WR's in the league - plus (last season) two quality pass catching TE's - all this has resulted in a lack of depth on defense.

Having said this - it hasnt always been the D that has been the problem come playoff time - its the famed offense that has sputtered when the chips were down.

No QB has been in better situations over the last 4 years to win an SB or two and he hasn't won any - I really think that we will 'super cool game manager' Peyton go MIA once the playoffs begin.

NM

tony hipchest
01-04-2006, 05:11 PM
No QB has been in better situations over the last 4 years to win an SB or two and he hasn't won any - I really think that we will 'super cool game manager' Peyton go MIA once the playoffs begin.

NM

except kordell and ben. :) peyton has had some excellent playoff games (2 atleast) so its not like he fails to show up every time. and his receivers did get mugged by the pats in 2003 (everyone, including the nfl, excluding patfans can agree on this)

the thing is, mannings arrival into the nfl was anticipated for 2 years and then manning elected to stay in school for his sr. season and make everyone wait an additional year.
this wasnt the case with brady. noone even knew who he was let alone anticipated him coming into the league. infact there was really no discussion about whether or not brady could be a superbowl calibur qb until after he actually went and did it. at that point any discussion and fodder was moot.

with manning, his fans wanna watch to see if he can finally do it, and his haters wanna watch to see if he cant do it. either way everyone is is watching and interrested. this doesnt really exist for any other qb,s other than maybe vick and mcnabb. there is built up interrest for diehard and casual fans alike. this is good for the nfl.

manning also has gone deep his whole carreer and thrown a ton of touchdowns and as we all know chicks dig the long ball.

love him or hate him and the hype machine around him he is good for the nfl and all other teams. all the hype, while on the surface seems like its about his place in history, is really about his impact financially.

the same thing can also be seen with griffey jr. in baseball (remember when he ws supposed to be the one to break hank aronns hr record? brady is like a jeff gordon, and manning is like a dale jr. dale jr, has a huge fanbase and endorsement dollars and hasnt even won a championship in nascar. most gordon fans absolutely hate it. fact is that jr and manning are more exciting, not as bland, and generate lots of interrest for the sport without even having to win a champ. whatever works. all their pockets are fat so whose to say winning it all deserves the accolades and $$$$ more than the one bringing in loads of $$$$ based on potential and anticipation?



to sum it all up it is an entertainment business and manning is just more entertaining than brady. i can see why the nfl would rather have the colts in the superbowl cause fans like me would rather watch the colts in the superbowl. if i really wanted to see brady in the sb i could just break out last years tape. people wanna see manning breaks records. you think anyone other than patriot fans really wanna see brady break montanas records?
im not talking smack or taking away from bradys accomplishments, just telling it how it really is.

Suitanim
01-04-2006, 05:21 PM
I don't like the Gordon/Junior comparison. Gordon has fans because he's the best pure driver in NASCAR and one of the best drivers in the World, and Junior has fans because NASCAR has deep roots in redneckery, and all those 'necks drink Bud and watched his daddy race...

Other than that, the rest of this is fine...

tony hipchest
01-04-2006, 05:40 PM
I don't like the Gordon/Junior comparison. Gordon has fans because he's the best pure driver in NASCAR and one of the best drivers in the World, and Junior has fans because NASCAR has deep roots in redneckery, and all those 'necks drink Bud and watched his daddy race...

Other than that, the rest of this is fine...

lmao! good post suit! if i had a hunnerd bucks for everytime i heard a brady fan talk about mannings deep roots in redneckery i think id have more than several hunnerd bucks :grin:

for those not familiar with the nascar rivalry, i think you have just perfectly helped me illustrate my point and comparrison. there is more fan interest in whether jr. will EVER win a cup than if gordon will win another one (yawn) and the hatred, animosity, and arguments between the 2 fanbases is almost identical

augustashark
01-04-2006, 05:40 PM
.... drink Bud and watched his daddy race...

Other than that, the rest of this is fine...[/QUOTE]


Suit, Thats the point....Everyone knew Manning......Because of his dad!

Manning won nothing in college nor the pros, yet he is held in the highest regards.

He was raised in football royalty.

Livinginthe past
01-04-2006, 06:18 PM
except kordell and ben. :) peyton has had some excellent playoff games (2 atleast) so its not like he fails to show up every time. and his receivers did get mugged by the pats in 2003 (everyone, including the nfl, excluding patfans can agree on this)

the thing is, mannings arrival into the nfl was anticipated for 2 years and then manning elected to stay in school for his sr. season and make everyone wait an additional year.
this wasnt the case with brady. noone even knew who he was let alone anticipated him coming into the league. infact there was really no discussion about whether or not brady could be a superbowl calibur qb until after he actually went and did it. at that point any discussion and fodder was moot.

with manning, his fans wanna watch to see if he can finally do it, and his haters wanna watch to see if he cant do it. either way everyone is is watching and interrested. this doesnt really exist for any other qb,s other than maybe vick and mcnabb. there is built up interrest for diehard and casual fans alike. this is good for the nfl.

manning also has gone deep his whole carreer and thrown a ton of touchdowns and as we all know chicks dig the long ball.

love him or hate him and the hype machine around him he is good for the nfl and all other teams. all the hype, while on the surface seems like its about his place in history, is really about his impact financially.

the same thing can also be seen with griffey jr. in baseball (remember when he ws supposed to be the one to break hank aronns hr record? brady is like a jeff gordon, and manning is like a dale jr. dale jr, has a huge fanbase and endorsement dollars and hasnt even won a championship in nascar. most gordon fans absolutely hate it. fact is that jr and manning are more exciting, not as bland, and generate lots of interrest for the sport without even having to win a champ. whatever works. all their pockets are fat so whose to say winning it all deserves the accolades and $$$$ more than the one bringing in loads of $$$$ based on potential and anticipation?



to sum it all up it is an entertainment business and manning is just more entertaining than brady. i can see why the nfl would rather have the colts in the superbowl cause fans like me would rather watch the colts in the superbowl. if i really wanted to see brady in the sb i could just break out last years tape. people wanna see manning breaks records. you think anyone other than patriot fans really wanna see brady break montanas records?
im not talking smack or taking away from bradys accomplishments, just telling it how it really is.

What can I say?

I guess im gonna have to throw you in there with the chicks then Tony - fans of Manning/Colts one and all.

The whole reason we have 'talking heads' is surely that they offer us more insight than females who like any player in tight pants who throws for meaningless records.

When I say meaningless records I mean it too - I couldnt care less if Manning/Brady/Ben throws for the most TD's in a season unless he does it when the chips are on the table - not when he is on the 1 yard line against Detroit and looking for his 5th TD of the game.

I guess I understand the point you make about the casual fan and how they can be taken in by hype/smoke and mirrors.

I dont understand why any fan of the Steelers could possibly prefer to watch the arena-ball that the Colts play over watching a team play it the way it should be played.

What I also dont get is ex-players and people who should know better constantly telling us that the 2nd coming is just around the corner - when he does it, if he does it - then fine but until then I wish everyone would put their pom-poms down.

NM

tony hipchest
01-04-2006, 06:41 PM
What can I say?

I guess im gonna have to throw you in there with the chicks then Tony - fans of Manning/Colts one and all.

The whole reason we have 'talking heads' is surely that they offer us more insight than females who like any player in tight pants who throws for meaningless records.

When I say meaningless records I mean it too - I couldnt care less if Manning/Brady/Ben throws for the most TD's in a season unless he does it when the chips are on the table - not when he is on the 1 yard line against Detroit and looking for his 5th TD of the game.

I guess I understand the point you make about the casual fan and how they can be taken in by hype/smoke and mirrors.

I dont understand why any fan of the Steelers could possibly prefer to watch the arena-ball that the Colts play over watching a team play it the way it should be played.

What I also dont get is ex-players and people who should know better constantly telling us that the 2nd coming is just around the corner - when he does it, if he does it - then fine but until then I wish everyone would put their pom-poms down.

NM call it waht you want to. them talking heads, experts, past players etc., get paid to say what they say, just like peyton gets paid to play like he plays. everyone knows where their bread is buttered. if they say otherwise they dont get paid. if manning plays otherwise he dont get paid. if you understand the casual fan point than you should understand the "chicks dig the longball comment" obviously not. what i dont understand is why after 4 years brady and his fans still have to ***** about manning getting all the praise and accolades and hype and whine about the "disrespect" deal. brady got his rings. after all isnt that all that matters? he cant have his cake and eat it too.

as for the areana ball, i loved the 2000 rams and k. warner going deep, and the professionalism and studious approach marshall faulk brought to the game. and the superbowl between them and the titans. it turned into the antithesis of a run and gun shootout and was a defensive struggle for the 1st half and while i wasnt a fan of the titans or especially nfc rams.

i loved players like mcnair, george, faulk, bruce, holt and warner. i love the play mike jones made and the effort kevin dyson gave.

i put manning in the group of the aformentionned. while i have great love for the steelers my love for the nfl is probably just as great. if brady werent always whining and acting like a primadonna i might be able to put him in that class too but i just cant. at this point is still like bledsoe's attitude better and the fact that he had an aorta sheared from his heart trying to make a 1st down. or the passion curtis martin played with and the hardships he overcame, or even (this is gonna kill me) t. bruschi coming back for the sake of his team. i can respect the players who earn my respect, and manning has done so.

tony hipchest
01-04-2006, 06:41 PM
What can I say?

I guess im gonna have to throw you in there with the chicks then Tony - fans of Manning/Colts one and all.

The whole reason we have 'talking heads' is surely that they offer us more insight than females who like any player in tight pants who throws for meaningless records.

When I say meaningless records I mean it too - I couldnt care less if Manning/Brady/Ben throws for the most TD's in a season unless he does it when the chips are on the table - not when he is on the 1 yard line against Detroit and looking for his 5th TD of the game.

I guess I understand the point you make about the casual fan and how they can be taken in by hype/smoke and mirrors.

I dont understand why any fan of the Steelers could possibly prefer to watch the arena-ball that the Colts play over watching a team play it the way it should be played.

What I also dont get is ex-players and people who should know better constantly telling us that the 2nd coming is just around the corner - when he does it, if he does it - then fine but until then I wish everyone would put their pom-poms down.

NM call it waht you want to. them talking heads, experts, past players etc., get paid to say what they say, just like peyton gets paid to play like he plays. everyone knows where their bread is buttered. if they say otherwise they dont get paid. if manning plays otherwise he dont get paid. if you understand the casual fan point than you should understand the "chicks dig the longball comment" obviously not. what i dont understand is why after 4 years brady and his fans still have to ***** about manning getting all the praise and accolades and hype and whine about the "disrespect" deal. brady got his rings. after all isnt that all that matters? he cant have his cake and eat it too.

as for the areana ball, i loved the 2000 rams and k. warner going deep, and the professionalism and studious approach marshall faulk brought to the game. and the superbowl between them and the titans. it turned into the antithesis of a run and gun shootout and was a defensive struggle for the 1st half and while i wasnt a fan of the titans or especially nfc rams,

i loved players like mcnair, george, faulk, bruce, holt and warner. i love the play mike jones made and the effort kevin dyson gave.

i put manning in the group of the aformentionned. while i have great love for the steelers my love for the nfl is probably just as great. if brady werent always whining and acting like a primadonna i might be able to put him in that class too but i just cant. at this point i still like bledsoe's attitude better and the fact that he had an aorta sheared from his heart trying to make a 1st down. or the passion curtis martin played with and the hardships he overcame, or even (this is gonna kill me) t. bruschi coming back for the sake of his team. i can respect the players who earn my respect, and manning has done so.

tony hipchest
01-04-2006, 06:57 PM
and i must expand on your thought that no steelerfans should root for a player like manning as if its something disgraceful. manning reminds me of 2 of my favorite qb's- terry bradshaw and jim kelley. you know what separates jim kelly from tom brady? thats right! a kicker. i get sick of the media and talking heads slobbing brady when plenty of qb's out there are and were capable of leading game winning drives as if hes the one who invented it. too bad mcnair couldnt rely on a kick to win him a superbowl. i still havent seen brady throw in a game winner like montana, or lead a 98 yd drive like elway, or lead an amazing comeback win like kelly against the broncos in 90 i believe or reich against the oilers yet, he is talked about like he invented the comeback.

3 to be 4
01-04-2006, 07:06 PM
the fanbase of the patriots is vastly different today than it was before they started winning superbowls and that was really the fanbase i was addressing.

WRONG. the Patriot fanbase includes some diehards, like me, back since the eartly 70's, and in other cases, since the start of the franchise.
But the large fanbase of today did not start on Feb 3rd 2002. it began at the end of the 1993 season. Parcells and Bledsoe hasd brought hope bt it appeared the team would be moving to St.Louis. At the last moment Robert Kraft bought the team and once it dawned on folks that this improving team was staying it ignited an excitement that has stayed ever since. 8 playoff seasons, 6 divison titles, 4 AFC Championships, 3 Super Bowl Chasmpionships later...........but it really started in 1993.

and before you say it.......when did the Steelers become HUGE? not until 1972, when THEY started winning too.

Livinginthe past
01-04-2006, 07:10 PM
and i must expand on your thought that no steelerfans should root for a player like manning as if its something disgraceful. manning reminds me of 2 of my favorite qb's- terry bradshaw and jim kelley. you know what separates jim kelly from tom brady? thats right! a kicker. i get sick of the media and talking heads slobbing brady when plenty of qb's out there are and were capable of leading game winning drives as if hes the one who invented it. too bad mcnair couldnt rely on a kick to win him a superbowl. i still havent seen brady throw in a game winner like montana, or lead a 98 yd drive like elway, or lead an amazing comeback win like kelly against the broncos in 90 i believe or reich against the oilers yet, he is talked about like he invented the comeback.

You know what seperates Peyton Manning from Jim Sorgi?

A famous father.

Its funny I really cant imagine Terry Bradshaw looking over at his WR with a 'disappointed, couldnt you do better' sort of look after he just underthrew him.

If the media slobber over Brady its because he has done it - no he didnt INVENT the comeback - but he has certainly perfected it.

The truth was revealed when you described the anticipation for Peyton before he even enterd the NFL - its all about what he may do - not anything he has ever actually achieved - he couldnt even win a college bowl final.

You can make all the comments you want about FG kickers winning SB's - but when was the last time Manning ever left the fate of his team in the playoffs in the hands of anyone else?

The answer is never - either the Colts win by a country mile - or Manning cant even get them close.

NM

3 to be 4
01-04-2006, 07:18 PM
i still havent seen brady throw in a game winner like montana, or lead a 98 yd drive like elway, or lead an amazing comeback win like kelly against the broncos in 90 i believe or reich against the oilers yet,


really??
2001- Down by 10 vs Chargers with minutes to go he lead them back, inclding TD pass in the last minute.
2002- TD pass to Patten in last minute to win at Chicago
2002- TD pass in last minute to tie Miami before OT win
2003- TD pass to Troy Brown in OT to win at Miami
2003- TD pass to Givens in last minute to win on MNF at Denver
2003- TD pass to Graham in last minute to tie game at Houston before OT win
2003- led TD drive with 2 minutes to go to take the lead vs Carolina in SB 38. defense
gives it up. so he leads another drive to set up Vinatieri. i gues that wasnt impressive.

so dont say hes never done it. besides, if you only need a FG to win, thats what you need.
right, Brian Sipe?????