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tony hipchest
02-05-2009, 10:28 AM
good stuff. as always, kirwan has the stats to back up the facts. as far as running out of the no huddle and shotgun, this is where the return of mendenhall is gonna help us tremendously next year, giving us an added dimension, improve the passing game, and reduce sacks on ben.

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d80e92771&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

The game was entertaining for fans, educational for coaches




The NFL treated its fans to a great game Sunday when the Pittsburgh Steelers narrowly beat the upstart Arizona Cardinals 27-23 in Super Bowl XLIII. As New Orleans Saints running back Reggie Bush said to me Monday, the Cardinals' performance was inspirational to him and the rest of the league's players, who believe their team can make it to the big game just like Arizona did this year.



The Cardinals lost to the better team in Tampa, Fla., but they won a number of the battles within the game. Arizona had more first downs, more total yards, a better rushing average, better yards per pass attempt and better yards per play, and they put three punts inside the 20-yard line.
:jawdrop: The Cardinals have lots to build upon when you consider they generated 407 yards of offense against the NFL's top-ranked defense. But other important issues were part of this great game.

Every year, the Super Bowl provides a few wrinkles that set the stage for the next season. They trigger reminders to the men running a team's draft and the coaches building offenses and defenses. Here are a couple of things that Super Bowl XLIII taught me -- things I expect to see during the 2009 regular season.

Pass out of the shotgun
Traditional West Coast-offense coaches don't like the shotgun, but it's becoming more and more apparent that the formation is here to stay and its use is growing.

The Cardinals and Steelers had a combined 48 shotgun snaps in the Super Bowl. Arizona tried one run and 32 passes from the shotgun; Pittsburgh didn't bother to run the ball once on its 15 shotgun plays. Kurt Warner and Ben Roethlisberger combined to complete 31 of the 47 passes thrown out of the shotgun for 398 yards. Imagine if they had a strong run game from the shotgun to balance the attack.
More no-huddle, less run
Both teams incorporated the no-huddle into their offensive philosophy, and they need to do more of it next season. The no-huddle puts a lot of stress on the defense.

All 14 plays from the no-huddle in the Super Bowl were passes, so here's another dimension that needs to develop a legitimate run game as a complement. Warner and Roethlisberger, who now have five Super Bowl appearances between them, completed 10 of 14 passes from the no-huddle for 167 yards. That's 16.7 yards per completion, even though the defense knows you're not running the ball. That's a fine accomplishment.:thumbsup:

There were 38 running plays, compared to 77 passes, called in the Super Bowl. That means the Cardinals and Steelers ran the ball just 33 percent of the time, and I don't see that trend going away. In fact, when you consider that neither team could even average 3 yards per carry, it might be time to acknowledge what really got your team to the Super Bowl. The longest run in the game was 15 yards, but eight pass completions were longer than that.

Throw the ball inside the 10
Offensive approaches inside the 10-yard line are really changing, and this Super Bowl was a prime example. There were 20 plays called from inside the opponent's 10 during the game -- seven runs for a total of zero yards and one touchdown; 13 passes for 26 yards and three touchdowns. Still, the 100-yard interception return for a touchdown by Steelers linebacker James Harrison was a great reminder of how difficult it can be to execute a pass play in a confined space.

The Cardinals came into the game with seven touchdown passes from the 1-yard line. They stayed true to form in the Super Bowl with three passing attempts from the 1, resulting in two touchdowns and Harrison's interception return for a score. Neither team really had the big running back who would pile-drive the defense. Maybe they need to think about a player like the Ravens' Le'Ron McClain.



Forget about a 'caretaker QB'
In today's NFL, there's a perception that a team with a great defense just needs a quarterback who won't turn over the ball. It's naive to think a "caretaker QB" can win a Super Bowl. The Steelers had the No. 1 defense in the NFL this season, but they still needed Roethlisberger's late-game heroics to win the Super Bowl. Roethlisberger was 5-for-7 passing for 84 yards and the game-winning touchdown in that final drive.



Spread out a pressure defense
Both offenses realized that spreading out a pressure defense with a wide-open pass attack is a smart idea. By eliminating a lot of the traditional two-back sets (tight end, two wide receivers) and substituting three- and four-receiver sets, the offense takes away a defense's ability to bring the pressure it likes to apply. We'll see a lot more spread offenses next season, for sure.

Better have interchangeable parts
What came first, the chicken or the egg? I'm not sure about that one, but the Super Bowl convinced me once and for all that modern defenses need 11 athletes who are interchangeable. Defensive backs must be able to pressure the quarterback, linemen have to cover pass routes and linebackers can't be liabilities against spread sets that put them in space.

I saw the Cardinals line up with two men with a hand on the ground, and the Steelers had some looks where just one player had a hand on the ground. The Super Bowl taught us that it's critical to never let the quarterback or the center get a real picture of what's coming. A field full of "jokers" or "wild cards" is what's needed to play against these modern pass attacks. In Super Bowl XLIII, the Cardinals and Steelers did it as well as any team in the league.

DACEB
02-05-2009, 10:48 AM
Good read Tony.

As you mentioned, Mendy will be huge for us once he gets himself acclimated to the pros. I believe the offense is in transition, with a strong group of TEs and a RB like Mendy as the 'jokers'.

The real bright spot comes from the LBing core, where we have THE perfect 'joker' in Timmons and although superior in pass rushing S'back and Wood have proven to be solid in space.

DACEB
02-05-2009, 10:53 AM
Is there becoming less of a need for the huge space eating NTs that we are used to.

When offenses start to spread us out, Hampton becomes a little obsolete.

revefsreleets
02-05-2009, 10:55 AM
You DO realize that Kirwan is pretty much putting his stamp of approval on BRUCE ARIANS OFFENSE here?

Passing out of the empty backfield spread, passing inside the 10, passing out of the gun, etc, etc...

DACEB
02-05-2009, 11:17 AM
You DO realize that Kirwan is pretty much putting his stamp of approval on BRUCE ARIANS OFFENSE here?

Passing out of the empty backfield spread, passing inside the 10, passing out of the gun, etc, etc...

That's interesting, he never once mentioned BA. He did mention numerous times that a legitimate run game is needed out of those formations, not an empty backfield.

But as I stated previously, BA does run a 'joker' type offense. The TEs are expected to block and catch equally well, as with the H-back, and the RB must be able to catch out of the backfield. This is where I see young guys like Mendy and Sherrod shining.

FWIW, I never want to see us run an empty backfield spread offense like the Patsies, unless we're down and in need of a quick comeback.

revefsreleets
02-05-2009, 11:25 AM
That's interesting, he never once mentioned BA.

No he didn't, but he DID mentioned all the things that BA did this year that made him a marked and hated man amongst many Steelers prognosticators. The things Kirwan mentioned are all the tenets of an Arians offense. It's a copycat league. Both offenses had a lot of similiar traits. So expect people to start emulating Bruce Arians offensive schemes next year.

Fire Arians indeed!

Hines0wnz
02-05-2009, 11:33 AM
As good as the article is, there is still a need to have a decent running game. Look at the Titans for instance. With the emergence of Chris Johnson and Lendale White as a big time 1-2 punch and the Giants with their 2 and sometimes 3 headed running attack. If having a prolific passing attack is the "wave" of the 2009 season then look for the Bengals, Browns, Saints, Rams, Packers and of course the Patsies to be the dominate teams next season. :blah:

In all seriousness though, you notice I didnt include the Colts and Bolts in there because both those clubs need a running game to thrive. I say let teams get pass happy while teams like the Steelers (:tt02:) bolster their O-line and find their running game again to compete for another championship.

devilsdancefloor
02-05-2009, 11:36 AM
Nice article i hope with mendys help next yr we have akick ass run game again!

DACEB
02-05-2009, 01:05 PM
No he didn't, but he DID mentioned all the things that BA did this year that made him a marked and hated man amongst many Steelers prognosticators.

Really, like what?
*Totally abandon throwing to the TEs at the goal line. (when we have giants with great hands)
*Consistently run the dive off LG at the goal line. (or maybe a counter with our backs pinned to our own goal line)
*Empty the backfield on 2nd and 5. (instead of going play-action)
*Or my personal favorite; Put FWP in motion, split wide leaving an empty backfield and in essence playing 10 on 11 because Willie can't catch the ball.

None of those things were mentioned in the article.

The things Kirwan mentioned are all the tenets of an Arians offense. It's a copycat league. Both offenses had a lot of similar traits.

Did you see how often Arizona threw to the RB, how often do we do that? Are screens not included in BAs offense?

Do you really want to toss the ball around when we get inside the ten, or would you rather we be able to pound it in?

It's all about balance, which Kirwan states quite often. Arians offense is a balance type offense, as I stated, but the key is disguise. In his offense the same personnel can be used for multiple formations (a theme of the article), which again we haven't seen much of throughout his tenure.

So expect people to start emulating Bruce Arians offensive schemes next year.

Fire Arians indeed!

Well we already know Tomlin is retaining all the coaches. I have no problem with Arians offensive philosophy, it's his play-calling and game-planning I have a problem with. Familiarity and continuity breeds success in this league, and I'm confident that the coordinators will continue to move toward Tomlin's vision of the future.

DACEB
02-05-2009, 01:11 PM
Does anyone think we won't draft another LBer this draft?

Does that type of defensive personnel lend itself better to the 4-3?

markymarc
02-05-2009, 03:47 PM
Great read and thanks for posting Tony. It will be very nice to get a healthy Mendenhall back for the 2009 season.

DACEB
02-06-2009, 06:17 AM
Kirwan is an idiot!!! For every some what good article he puts out there is one of these
http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d80e61f3b&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true
Anyhow, big no shitter here for you. The Cards spread us out and put up 400 yards, expect to see a lot of this until we plug the holes. I could have wrote that much, duh huh.

But we have started to plug the holes. The Patsies were the first to neutralize our D by spreading us out. Since then we've drafted Timmons and Wood. While Wood has had a more immediate impact, it's Timmons that will have a larger impact in those types of situations in the future. We also have some other players, like Mundy, that will progress and help out in those situations. I believe Mundy's size and tackling ability would be an asset in those types of situations, where a DB is substituting for a LB. Is it also possible that LBs like Fox or Bailey, with their quickness, would fit into those defensive packages?

I think the missing link is more athletic D-linemen. Hence my question as to whether a change to a 4-3 alignment is foreseeable.

Steelers & I
02-06-2009, 08:26 AM
As I read the article I believe that the writer was speaking MORE ABOUT the Cardinals offensive system as opposed to the Steelers. I believe that IT IS the Cardinals offensive coordinator who has landed a head coaching job with the Chiefs while Arians has YET to even land an interview.

The Super Bowl, as well as the playoffs, proved a few things to me. Yes, Arians, at times, calls a damn good game, as was witnessed by the 1st quarter of the Super Bowl. The quick passes to Holmes along with the play action passes were all excellent calls. Actually the Steelers should have been up 14-0.

Most of the Steelers big offensive plays came after Ben Roethlisberger avoided at least one defender by way of scrambling around in the backfield. OBVIOUSLY the plays weren't designed that way. Roethlisberger, as we all know, buys additional seconds. With this additional time, coverages tend to ease up and the "designed WR routes" are thrown out the window. Basically, Arians offensive play designs are TOTALLY DISSOLVED about 4 seconds after the snap from Center. From that point on it's essentially "sand lot football".

Ben scrambles left, he shakes off the DE and scrambles right where he's pressured by the DT. The DT pulls at Ben's jersey. Ben shakes him off and steps up into the pocket where he passes the ball to Heath Miller 8 yards downfield. Great play, just the way Bruce drew it up. :thumbsup:

revefsreleets
02-06-2009, 12:22 PM
Really, like what?
*Totally abandon throwing to the TEs at the goal line. (when we have giants with great hands)
*Consistently run the dive off LG at the goal line. (or maybe a counter with our backs pinned to our own goal line)
*Empty the backfield on 2nd and 5. (instead of going play-action)
*Or my personal favorite; Put FWP in motion, split wide leaving an empty backfield and in essence playing 10 on 11 because Willie can't catch the ball.

None of those things were mentioned in the article.



Did you see how often Arizona threw to the RB, how often do we do that? Are screens not included in BAs offense?

Do you really want to toss the ball around when we get inside the ten, or would you rather we be able to pound it in?

It's all about balance, which Kirwan states quite often. Arians offense is a balance type offense, as I stated, but the key is disguise. In his offense the same personnel can be used for multiple formations (a theme of the article), which again we haven't seen much of throughout his tenure.



Well we already know Tomlin is retaining all the coaches. I have no problem with Arians offensive philosophy, it's his play-calling and game-planning I have a problem with. Familiarity and continuity breeds success in this league, and I'm confident that the coordinators will continue to move toward Tomlin's vision of the future.

We're gonna have a lesson in reading comprehension here...

1. Throwing to the TE's is all Arians call? That's news to me, especially since we know that Ben calls many of his own plays, and all his own plays in the no huddle.
2. Consistently run the ball off LG in GL? Did you read the article? The two teams ran the ball only 33% of the time. There were only 7 runs inside the 10 as opposed to 13 passes. 3 of the 4 TD's were for passes. The two teams rushed for ZERO yards inside the 10.
3. Empty the backfield on 2nd and 5. Not mentioned? What do you think 3-4 WR's MEANS? See many 4 wide sets with RB lately?
4. FWP in motion. MANY problems with this. First off, sending him in motion quite possibly pulls a rusher off. It also means someone from the D has to one on one Parker (Just because you are sure he won't catch the ball doen't mean the opposing DC is going to leave him uncovered). Empty backfield was covered in 3.
5. Screen passes are included in BA's offense, and when our 3rd down back is in there, we throw to him. But we also play to our RB's strengths. Russell is a better power back. FWP is the best pure runner. Moore is our receiving back.
6. Running vs. throwing inside the ten? I don't care, I just want to score. Throwing worked. If we'd have run and not gotten in, I GUARANTEE you'd have been one of the ones bitching about not throwing enough and keeping the other team on it's toes.

This is Arians hating. He gets the blame for failure, and little credit for success. It's gone on all year.

Fire Haley
02-06-2009, 12:41 PM
We need to draft a couple more WR's.

Offense wins Championships!

5 WIDE!!!

DACEB
02-06-2009, 02:19 PM
We're gonna have a lesson in reading comprehension here....

Your the one who needs a lesson in reading comprehension. Go back and read everything again and maybe you'll comprehend, maybe.

This is Arians hating. He gets the blame for failure, and little credit for success. It's gone on all year.

Because he deserves it. I've given my opinion, but I've also backed it up with alternatives and logical football discussion. Unlike you that can ONLY say that "the coaches know better" or (like you know for a fact) "Tomlin is happy with Arians".

You sir, will never school me on anything football related. So why don't you take your lips off BAs ball sack and discuss football.

MACH1
02-06-2009, 02:33 PM
You DO realize that Kirwan is pretty much putting his stamp of approval on BRUCE ARIANS OFFENSE here?




So your saying the scoring average for the league will be down next year. :chuckle:

revefsreleets
02-06-2009, 02:39 PM
Your the one who needs a lesson in reading comprehension. Go back and read everything again and maybe you'll comprehend, maybe.



Because he deserves it. I've given my opinion, but I've also backed it up with alternatives and logical football discussion. Unlike you that can ONLY say that "the coaches know better" or (like you know for a fact) "Tomlin is happy with Arians".

You sir, will never school me on anything football related. So why don't you take your lips off BAs ball sack and discuss football.

LOL. Another fan who knows more than everyone else. There are a lot of you. Last time I checked, Bruce Arians was the Offensive Coordinator of a Super Bowl winning franchise, probably the best managed franchise in all of sports. Here comes an article that states the guy knows what he's doing (probably the first of many) after all, despite the hatred and misunderstanding of the casual fan, and played to the strengths of his team. Now, you, as a hater, have two choices. You can back off a little, maybe show a little humility and perhaps admit you were at least a little wrong, or you can attack everyone who has a dissenting view and cling to your take, even as it's becoming clear that Bruce Arians is a fine offensive coordinator, and did a great job working with what he had to work with.

I talked football, by the way, and your response was to attack me, NOT my arguments, then, as is the case with most know-it-alls, you turn around and do the same exact thing to me you just accused me of. Ridiculous nonsense. The grandstanding and self-congratulating is a nice touch.

I see you choose the low road. Which is fine. After all, I don't give a good Goddamn what you say anyway. I've stuck by the guy all year, and he delivered. You bashed, and continue to bash. You've made your filthy little nest, and you have a whole offseason to rot in it. The good news is BA will be back next year, so you can spend all next season trashing the guy. He probably cares what you think even less than I do, which is not at all.

DACEB
02-06-2009, 04:07 PM
You sir, will never school me on anything football related. So why don't you take your lips off BAs ball sack and discuss football.

:blah:

Steeldude
02-06-2009, 05:03 PM
especially since we know that Ben calls many of his own plays, and all his own plays in the no huddle

that's incorrect. BR calls about 50% of the plays in the no-huddle. arians calls the plays out of the no-huddle.

tony hipchest
02-06-2009, 06:39 PM
Kirwan is an idiot!!! For every some what good article he puts out there is one of these
http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d80e61f3b&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true
Anyhow, big no shitter here for you. The Cards spread us out and put up 400 yards, expect to see a lot of this until we plug the holes. I could have wrote that much, duh huh.lol. youre kidding right? every gm in the league, coach, (probably most owners), and hundereds of players would disagree with you.

but humor me... what in his article breaking down the jokers in arizona's (and the steelers) did you find idiotic? did you break down film to see how their implimentation allowed willie parker to run all over the cardinals in the last 2 match ups or something? :noidea:

seriously... whatchoo got?

i gotta surmise that if you think kirwans football analysis is idiotic you must think anybody with a media forum is also idiotic which theoretically make you an expert, right?

spread the knowledge, then.

lilyoder6
02-06-2009, 08:21 PM
it looks like u caught him in that one tony

tony hipchest
02-06-2009, 08:46 PM
it looks like u caught him in that one tonyyeah, it wasnt that hard. kirwan practically predicted the game with his qb breakdowns-

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d80e687d5&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

TAMPA, Fla. -- Passing is the backbone of the Arizona Cardinals' offense. Sure, it helped that they restarted their running game in time for the playoffs, but quarterback Kurt Warner and his receivers did the most damage during their Super Bowl run. In the three playoff victories over the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers and Philadelphia Eagles, Warner completed 61 of 92 passes for 770 yards and eight touchdowns with two interceptions, and he was sacked just three times.

So, how will the Pittsburgh Steelers handle this passing attack Sunday in Super Bowl XLIII? Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau needs to address many issues while devising his game plan.

Favorite targets
Larry Fitzgerald is the Cardinals' go-to guy: He already has broken the NFL record for receiving yards in one postseason with 419 and is only one away from tying Jerry Rice's mark of six receiving touchdowns in one postseason.

Although Warner likes throwing to Fitzgerald, the QB actually spreads the ball around, going to nine different receivers per game in the playoffs. Warner has gone to Fitzgerald 35 times (11.6 average in three games), Anquan Boldin 11 times (5.5 average in two games) and Steve Breaston 10 times (3.3 average in three games). Running backs were targets 16 times (5.3 average in three games) and tight ends nine times (3.0 average in three games).

Personnel groupings
LeBeau must watch how many wide receivers the Cardinals have on the field because it will tell him a lot about the protection schemes and what players he should use. Arizona goes with two-, three- and four-receiver sets, and there are hints in each. Here's how the Cardinals did in each set during the regular season:

In the two-receiver package, Warner was 57-of-74 passing for 751 yards and three touchdowns with one interception, and he was sacked three times. Fitzgerald caught 21 passes, Breaston 10 and Boldin nine. This package doesn't put all three of Arizona's best receivers on the field, but I expect to see it for protection reasons. The Steelers will use their base 3-4 defense to defend this formation.

A three-receiver set allows Fitzgerald, Boldin and Breaston to be on the field together, and Warner completed 104 of 155 passes for 1,096 yards and 11 touchdowns with four interceptions and nine sacks in this look. Boldin led the way with 28 receptions out of this format, and Fitzgerald had 25 and Breaston 20. In this set, the Cardinals can have a seven-man blocking scheme, plus the free release of these receivers. The Steelers probably will go to a nickel defense against this, and I expect to see linebacker Lawrence Timmons come in the game.Arizona probably uses more four-receiver sets than any other NFL team. Warner completed 237 of 361 passes for 2,708 yards and 16 touchdowns with nine interceptions when given four receivers. Warner also was sacked just once every 28 pass attempts (13 total) in this package, which provides just six blockers. LeBeau will blitz in this situation, but he faces a challenge because of Warner's quick passes and his distribution to a variety of receivers. Boldin has 52 catches, Fitzgerald 49, Breaston 47 and Jerheme Urban 31 in the four-receiver package.

Down and distance
The Cardinals really worked their first-down passing attack during the regular season, averaging 11 completions per game at an 11.4-yard average. Fitzgerald led the way on first-down passes with 62 receptions for 530 yards. In the playoffs, he has been a first-down target 13 times and made nine catches.

Boldin was Arizona's lead receiver on second-down passes during the regular season, but Fitzgerald has dominated in that situation in the playoffs, being targeted 12 times while the rest of the team has been thrown to 16 total times. LeBeau should think about double-coverage looks on second downs because Fitzgerald has receptions of 42, 41, 29, 18 and 15 yards in that situation.
Third down isn't the time to play exclusively to Fitzgerald. During the regular season, he was third to Boldin and Breaston and only one reception ahead of Urban. During the playoffs, nine different receivers have been targets of third-down passes.

The Cardinals also like to throw the ball when they're close to the goal line, and they had 10 touchdown passes of three yards or less during the regular season. The feature play is the stop fade to Fitzgerald. Boldin runs a few "rub" routes inside the 5-yard line, but until someone can outrebound Fitzgerald, defenses know what play is coming.



Yards after the catch
The Cardinals' passing game is built on short passes and big runs after the catch. During the regular season, Fitzgerald, Boldin and Breaston combined for 1,310 yards after the catch -- 81.9 yards per game. They also broke 29 tackles and gained 609 of those 1,310 yards after contact.

LeBeau must devise a plan that will stop Arizona's short crossing routes, so look for Steelers SS Troy Polamalu or FS Ryan Clark to collide with the crossing-route receiver from the opposite side. Fitzgerald likes to run free across the field at 7-9 yards, catch the ball, stick his foot in the ground and turn upfield. Chasing him or playing a soft zone hasn't worked for other teams in the playoffs.

Favorite routes
Fitzgerald has four routes that cause opposing defenses the most problems. He runs a deep takeoff -- usually down the right side -- that needs to be double-covered, and defenders should be ready to jump because Warner throws the ball over Fitzgerald's head to set up a rebound situation, which he wins 90 percent of the time. I've seen Fitzgerald beat Steelers CB Ike Taylor on this route.

Fitzgerald also runs a slant route against any soft outside alignment, and Bryant McFadden didn't cover it very well during last season's 21-14 Cardinals victory. Fitzgerald will take a 9-yard out route all game long if defenders keep playing soft and inside on him. Of course, as soon as he sees zone, Fitzgerald likes running that crossing route.

Boldin, on the other hand, is like a running back with the ball in his hands. He's an excellent short-route runner and works off picks well. He also can catch a screen pass and go the distance.

Breaston is speedy and can split seams, and Urban is a slot receiver who runs little choice routes, much like Wes Welker does for the New England Patriots.

The bottom line
To have a good chance of stopping the Cardinals' passing attack, the Steelers must get to Warner. If Warner throws 30 passes without being sacked, Pittsburgh's defensive backs will not hold up. At times, the best way to play Arizona is with a four-man rush and man-to-man underneath coverage with two deep safeties over the top -- the system that Patriots head coach Bill Belichick used in Super Bowl XXXVI to beat the St. Louis Rams' "Greatest Show on Turf," led by Warner. The Steelers didn't stop Fitzgerald last season, and they don't have a cornerback who can match up with him, so this coverage might help.Pittsburgh can stop Arizona's running game with seven defenders in the box, so this game is all about stopping the pass. Of course, if the Cardinals' defense continues to create turnovers like it has so far in the playoffs (12, leading to four touchdowns and three field goals), Arizona's passing game on a short field will win out.


kirwan nailed just about all points but especially all those in bold.

tony hipchest
02-06-2009, 08:56 PM
notice pat didnt predict willie to run all over the cardinals defense?

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d80e5b68d&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

The quarterback who can make the most plays in Super Bowl XLIII probably will lead his team to the championship.

Arizona's Kurt Warner and Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger both have Super Bowl rings and are in hot pursuit of their second prize. Each of these quarterbacks have strengths and weaknesses, and both opposing defensive coordinators believe in pressure to disrupt the passer. It should be an interesting chess match during the game.

Before breaking down each quarterback, it's important to get a sense of what the defensive coaches are looking at in the way of a scouting report. Here's a look at a number of critical areas, based on the 16 regular-season games that Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau and Cardinals defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast will digest before structuring a game plan.

...

In charting where these two quarterbacks threw the ball during the conference championship games, it might explain a few things about what to expect in the Super Bowl.

....

There are two things about Roethlisberger's passing game that you can never lose sight of when preparing to defend him. One, he has a very strong arm, and this 43-yard bomb to Santonio Holmes in the first quarter of the 2007 Cardinals-Steelers game demonstrates what Roethlisberger always wants to do when given the time.

The second element of Roethlisberger's passing game is his classic escape left and then find a target downfield. He isn't looking to run but rather buy time to throw. During the AFC Championship Game against the Ravens, Roethlisberger worked his left escape to the max on two crucial plays.

In the first quarter and facing a third-and-5 situation, Roethlisberger motioned Heath Miller from the right to the left, dropped back and was flushed to his left, where he found the tight end for a nice gain and a first down.



Warner and Roethlisberger are pocket passers with two different mentalities. Roethlisberger is looking for the big play, and Warner is trying to dissect the underneath coverages. It should be one heck of a quarterback battle in the Super Bowl.

im suprised that anyone who can make these types of idiotic prognostications is even wating their tim posting on steelersfever.

id be out cashing in (either for the media or in vegas).

revefsreleets
02-09-2009, 10:14 AM
that's incorrect. BR calls about 50% of the plays in the no-huddle. arians calls the plays out of the no-huddle.

It was up to 75% 2/3rds of the way through the season.

BR also has complete ability to audible and call what he sees based on what the defense is giving him. That is NEVER mentioned by the BA haters because it doesn't support their arguments. It's eaier to bash BA 100% of the time for failure and credit anyone and everyone OTHER than BA for success. Which is typical of the casual fan.

My FAVORITE (This is NOT directed at you steeldude)is the type of fan who already knows everything about football, therefore can never learn anything more about the game from fellow fans. What's most interesting about that is even the greatest coaches of all-time in any sport will acknowledge that they are always learning new things about the game, trying to get new perspectives. I wish I was an uber-genius who knew everything. :noidea:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 10:58 AM
I like Kirwins phrase "caretaker QB", as it better describes the Trent Dilfer, Jason Campbell type guys that take care of the football. I think its different than a "game manager" QB that manages the game, but has the ability to be an impact player.

The thing I dont like is how Kirwin is essentially basing his article on a team that can throw for 400 yards and still lose. Most of us around here know that if Ben throws for 400 yards........the Steelers often lose because they are playing from behind.

The whole "joker" concept is just defenses disguising coverages and just about every NFL team does that well, with the Steelers, Eagles, Ravens, probably the best 3 at it.

The league is always on a pendulum. Kirwin seems to point that its moving to a shotgun, spread, etc offense. It all comes around....even the old "single wing offense" is popular again......they just call it the "wildcat". Its a copycat league and whatever is en vogue (now a 3-4 defense) gets copied. This time last season, everybody was writing about how you needed to be able to pressure the QB with a 4-man rush like the Giants. Nice article, but really just fluff, flavor of the month stuff.

markymarc
02-09-2009, 06:04 PM
It was up to 75% 2/3rds of the way through the season.

BR also has complete ability to audible and call what he sees based on what the defense is giving him. That is NEVER mentioned by the BA haters because it doesn't support their arguments. It's eaier to bash BA 100% of the time for failure and credit anyone and everyone OTHER than BA for success. Which is typical of the casual fan.

My FAVORITE (This is NOT directed at you steeldude)is the type of fan who already knows everything about football, therefore can never learn anything more about the game from fellow fans. What's most interesting about that is even the greatest coaches of all-time in any sport will acknowledge that they are always learning new things about the game, trying to get new perspectives. I wish I was an uber-genius who knew everything. :noidea:

Okay first of all, do you actually have stats showing that BR was calling 75% of the plays in the no huddle offense? Guess that means you have the inside scoop right :chuckle: You obviously feel Arians is a strength for this team, but for you to rip anyone who doesn't feel that way is just ridiculous. I can't stand Arians, but he helped this team win the Super Bowl. I have no issues giving credit when it's due, but I also have no problems calling someone out if they are not helping the team win. I have seen several legit arguments on why people don't like Arians on this board. But hey according to you that just makes them a casual fan right. Guess we should all break out the Arians pom poms so we can remove ourselves out of that casual fan category.

revefsreleets
02-09-2009, 06:37 PM
Okay first of all, do you actually have stats showing that BR was calling 75% of the plays in the no huddle offense? Guess that means you have the inside scoop right :chuckle: You obviously feel Arians is a strength for this team, but for you to rip anyone who doesn't feel that way is just ridiculous. I can't stand Arians, but he helped this team win the Super Bowl. I have no issues giving credit when it's due, but I also have no problems calling someone out if they are not helping the team win. I have seen several legit arguments on why people don't like Arians on this board. But hey according to you that just makes them a casual fan right. Guess we should all break out the Arians pom poms so we can remove ourselves out of that casual fan category.

Since I made my answering post USING SPECIFIC FOOTBALL EXAMPLES, I haven't seen much refutation, just ad hominem attacks and more knee-jerk BA bashing.

Look, I don't give an eff if you hate Arians or not, no matter who you are, but at LEAST know what you are talking about. I've been "called out" on this over and over and over again, and every time I've had a credible attributable article or something to back up what I've said.

I've been reading about and studying Arians offense since he was in Cleveland. I was the first (and as far as I know) the ONLY person who ever talked about how he uses complex crossing patterns to fool DB's, which doesn't work so well with a shitty OL. Do I need to source that to prove it? I talked about how the FO and staff loved him. Do I need a source for that? Ben's trust in him and vice verse? Source? He's back next year. I don't think I need to source that one.

Again, bash away...I'm sure he cares way less than me because he gets paid big bucks and just won a SB with a QB who loves him and his playcalling. But just don't think you can roll roughshot over the guy without people calling "bullshit" on you...and for anyone who says anything as retarded as "You'll NEVER teach me anything about football", I say whatever...but I MAY learn something from you. My mind is open...it's sad to see people who already know everything because they'll never learn another thing again.

tony hipchest
02-09-2009, 06:48 PM
while kirwan predicts many teams will try to emmulate what the cardinals did to pittsbugh, he stops short of saying it will work.

its one thing to put in a style of offense. its a whole nother thing to have the people to carry it out.

its not like every team has warner, fitz, boldin, brady, moss, welker, manning, harrison, wayne.

easier said than done. i still think the ravens and titans plan of not giving up on the run is the best way to BEAT the steelers. (just like we didnt give up on the run in the champ game).

markymarc
02-09-2009, 07:12 PM
Since I made my answering post USING SPECIFIC FOOTBALL EXAMPLES, I haven't seen much refutation, just ad hominem attacks and more knee-jerk BA bashing.

Look, I don't give an eff if you hate Arians or not, no matter who you are, but at LEAST know what you are talking about. I've been "called out" on this over and over and over again, and every time I've had a credible attributable article or something to back up what I've said.

I've been reading about and studying Arians offense since he was in Cleveland. I was the first (and as far as I know) the ONLY person who ever talked about how he uses complex crossing patterns to fool DB's, which doesn't work so well with a shitty OL. Do I need to source that to prove it? I talked about how the FO and staff loved him. Do I need a source for that? Ben's trust in him and vice verse? Source? He's back next year. I don't think I need to source that one.

Again, bash away...I'm sure he cares way less than me because he gets paid big bucks and just won a SB with a QB who loves him and his playcalling. But just don't think you can roll roughshot over the guy without people calling "bullshit" on you...and for anyone who says anything as retarded as "You'll NEVER teach me anything about football", I say whatever...but I MAY learn something from you. My mind is open...it's sad to see people who already know everything because they'll never learn another thing again.

I could care less how long you have been studying Arians complex crossing patterns and other offensive schemes. Are you saying that makes you a football and Arians expert. By the way if you know you have a shitty OL why don't you use other plays instead of the long developing passes or those famous 5 and 7 step drop passes that were used earlier in the season. You remember when Ben was getting killed because Arians felt the need to call for those long pass plays with such a shitty OL.

Yea Tomlin loves him so much that he had to let him know about running the ball more, including using a lot more of the I formation near the end of the regular season and into the playoffs. You'll also notice at that time the shorter passing routes were being used a lot more. What I would like to know is why exactly the HC would have to have discussions with the OC about being smarter in the game planning and point things out to him. If Arians was such a great OC like you talk about shouldn't he be able to do those type of things without being told.

By the way, I wonder how FWP feels about Arians. You know the player that called him out for not running more out of the I formation. Yes Ben says how he likes Arians, but I also recall Ben bashing all of the critics on the OL play. So does that mean we have a good OL now too. I also know Ben talked to Arians the one game and demanded to use the no huddle to try and jump start the offense. That's my other point too, I have yet to see an NFL defense shut down our no huddle offense and yet it was barely used this season. Not saying it has to be the main focus of our offense, but hell as an OC break it out more to attack a defense and keep them guessing.

By the way, my mind is open as well and I'm still waiting to learn something from you. And I am willing to debate any time with you about Arians. But I guess I should break out the Cleveland Browns game tapes so I can play catch up to you on the Arians following :chuckle:

revefsreleets
02-09-2009, 07:15 PM
Do you REALLY want to do this?

I mean, seriously, I'll get into this with you and that other guy (and anyone else as well) but it'll be a whole thing, so I just want to make sure you're down with that...

lilyoder6
02-09-2009, 07:24 PM
:popcorn:

go rev go rev :argue:

Preacher
02-09-2009, 07:28 PM
And WE ARE OFF in the offseason.

It is Rev in the lead with DACEB nipping at his heels. REv cuts him off in the corner and teh funky bunch (markymark) comes on the inside with a bump. Tony Hip streaks down the outside like a liberal running from logic (:chuckle:) El-Gonzo paces the leaders. . .


Welcome to the offseason.

revefsreleets
02-09-2009, 07:30 PM
Not tonight. But I will say this: I'm arguing FOR an Offensive Coordinator who just won a Super Bowl with perhaps the worst OL in Super Bowl History.

tony hipchest
02-09-2009, 07:37 PM
And WE ARE OFF in the offseason.

It is Rev in the lead with DACEB nipping at his heels. REv cuts him off in the corner and teh funky bunch (markymark) comes on the inside with a bump. Tony Hip streaks down the outside like a liberal running from logic (:chuckle:) El-Gonzo paces the leaders. . .


Welcome to the offseason.i cant wait for the 500 sunday. the best part is the following day is a holiday. why cant the superbowl be followed by a holiday? (i needed it the year dale earnhardt died).

anyways, not to mention arians offense shoulda hung 30+ points on all playoff opponents (im not counting the return td in each game).

markymarc
02-09-2009, 08:30 PM
Do you REALLY want to do this?

I mean, seriously, I'll get into this with you and that other guy (and anyone else as well) but it'll be a whole thing, so I just want to make sure you're down with that...

Hey I am up for anything. Besides it is officially the off season now right :laughing:

markymarc
02-09-2009, 08:38 PM
Not tonight. But I will say this: I'm arguing FOR an Offensive Coordinator who just won a Super Bowl with perhaps the worst OL in Super Bowl History.

Nice. I look forward to our discussions :chuckle:

markymarc
02-09-2009, 08:40 PM
And WE ARE OFF in the offseason.

It is Rev in the lead with DACEB nipping at his heels. REv cuts him off in the corner and teh funky bunch (markymark) comes on the inside with a bump. Tony Hip streaks down the outside like a liberal running from logic (:chuckle:) El-Gonzo paces the leaders. . .


Welcome to the offseason.

LOL. Let the off season begin :chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 09:12 PM
I'll let you guys race without me. Its pointless really. You can say that we won the SB despite having a bad O line, you can say we won the SB despite having a bad OC........bottom line is WE WON THE SUPERBOWL !!!!! :tt02:

I stand behind my assessment of BA. Good coordinator, lack of use of the running game is disturbing, but good thing we had the best defense in 30 years to help the team win the SB. Scrap away fellas!!

DACEB
02-10-2009, 06:18 AM
I'll let you guys race without me. Its pointless really. You can say that we won the SB despite having a bad O line, you can say we won the SB despite having a bad OC........bottom line is WE WON THE SUPERBOWL !!!!! :tt02:

I stand behind my assessment of BA. Good coordinator, lack of use of the running game is disturbing, but good thing we had the best defense in 30 years to help the team win the SB. Scrap away fellas!!

Exactly!

I talked about how the FO and staff loved him. Do I need a source for that? Ben's trust in him and vice verse? Source? He's back next year. I don't think I need to source that one.

Honestly, you don't think the Rooney's have a hand in that? The most consistent organization in sports. Just as Tomlin will, they will give every opportunity to their own.

I challenge anyone to go back to the beginning, when the coaching staff was named under Tomlin, and find any negative comments that I wrote. I applauded the versatility of such an offensive scheme, even most recently I've stated that I like BAs offensive philosophy.

I don't see how you can question that there was some form of intervention from Tomlin throughout the season on the offensive front. We saw the offense progress thru the season, with changes similar to what was being illustrated in the posts by many members here.

Once again, I have a problem with BAs play-calling. I'm happy to have continuity going into next season, but I also expect marked improvement on the offensive front. Hopefully my expectations are met and I will be applauding BA next season.

Preacher
02-10-2009, 03:48 PM
I'm glad you all enjoyed that. . .

and Tony. . . don't forget, the day after the SB IS a holiday for me! I always get monday's off! :laughing:

revefsreleets
02-11-2009, 11:32 AM
I am currently working on the end-all-be-all Bruce Arians thread. It will have history and analysis, and everything will be sourced. It will probably take me a few more days to put it all together, so bear with me...

markymarc
02-11-2009, 08:12 PM
I look forward to reading your thread revefsreleets and of course offering my rebuttal.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-11-2009, 09:45 PM
I am currently working on the end-all-be-all Bruce Arians thread. It will have history and analysis, and everything will be sourced. It will probably take me a few more days to put it all together, so bear with me...

I look forward to it as much as the "mother of all Kevin Gilbride threads". :doh:

steelballs
02-12-2009, 06:19 AM
Great read and thanks for posting Tony. It will be very nice to get a healthy Mendenhall back for the 2009 season.


I second that, I'm looking forward to seeing what he does in 09'

We never really got a chance to see what he can do last year. I did get a chance to see him in Latrobe, but all you can derive from that is that he was breathing.