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mesaSteeler
02-06-2009, 11:16 PM
Butler leaving?
http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/2009/02/butler-leaving.html

The Arizona Cardinals have fired defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast and may be looking to the Steelers to replace him.

Arizona has contacted the Steelers for permission to speak to linebackers coach Keith Butler about the opening.

Given that it would be a promotion, the Steelers shouldn't be able to say no. But I've been unable to confirm that one way or another.

Butler was seen as the eventual replacement for defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau in Pittsburgh when LeBeau finally decides to walk into the sunset.

Butler was on staff with Ken Whisenhunt and Russ Grimm when they were in Pittsburgh.

(You know I'm getting a little tired of the Cardnials going after every ex-Steeler player or coach. - mesa)

SC Steeler Steve
02-06-2009, 11:25 PM
Butler leaving?
http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/2009/02/butler-leaving.html

The Arizona Cardinals have fired defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast and may be looking to the Steelers to replace him.

Arizona has contacted the Steelers for permission to speak to linebackers coach Keith Butler about the opening.

Given that it would be a promotion, the Steelers shouldn't be able to say no. But I've been unable to confirm that one way or another.

Butler was seen as the eventual replacement for defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau in Pittsburgh when LeBeau finally decides to walk into the sunset.

Butler was on staff with Ken Whisenhunt and Russ Grimm when they were in Pittsburgh.

(You know I'm getting a little tired of the Cardnials going after every ex-Steeler player or coach. - mesa)

I certainly agree...

T.Richardson
02-06-2009, 11:34 PM
Can the Cardinals go after someone else?

jjpro11
02-06-2009, 11:36 PM
f*ck the cardinals.. i've had just about enough of them and their whiny fans. boldin and dockett are on their way out the door, haley is gone.. they will go 1 and done because of their weak division or miss the playoffs completely.

drizze99
02-06-2009, 11:38 PM
I hope Coach T says NO

F-K the damn Cardinals

KeiselPower99
02-06-2009, 11:43 PM
Pendergast is a good coach just had to be in charge of a crappy unit. I do hope he says no. If you cant beat us then have some of us join ya.

kmsteelerwr15
02-07-2009, 12:23 AM
Isn't it bad enough that they took Brian St. Pierre from us?

:toofunny:

Edman
02-07-2009, 12:34 AM
Geez. Go filch off someone else, Arizona.

HometownGal
02-07-2009, 04:27 AM
With all of the other NFL coaches out there, couldn't they choose someone from a different team? Wiz needs to grow up and get over being pissed off at the Steelers. :banging:

SamUK
02-07-2009, 04:30 AM
Butler leaving?

Butler was seen as the eventual replacement for defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau in Pittsburgh when LeBeau finally decides to walk into the sunset.


Lets hope he can see that the grass wont ever be greener in Arizona and to stay and everntually take over that job here... makes much more sense ;)

Galax Steeler
02-07-2009, 06:30 AM
Isn't it bad enough that they took Brian St. Pierre from us?

:toofunny:

They took our best player from us now they are trying to get on of our coaches.:rofl:

LukesDad88
02-07-2009, 09:20 AM
Hey, look at it this way: In a weird sort of way, the Steelers won both the AFC and the NFC Championships this year!

mesaSteeler
02-07-2009, 09:25 AM
Hey, look at it this way: In a weird sort of way, the Steelers won both the AFC and the NFC Championships this year!

LOL :applaudit:

Tankus_Maximus
02-07-2009, 09:26 AM
Man, this is getting ridiculous! Hopefully Tomlin tells Whiz to grow a pair and go pilfer some other franchise!

SteelMember
02-07-2009, 09:34 AM
Isn't it bad enough that they took Brian St. Pierre from us?

:toofunny:

Don't forget Sean Morey and Clark Haggans.

I think wiz is just trying to copy cowhers system to the T. Even in the superbowl it was stated that he did everything the same as cowher in '05. What better way to copy him then to get his entire staff. If Dom Capers didn't alreay have a job, he probably would have looked at him. :noidea:

JackAttack 5958
02-07-2009, 10:13 AM
Mark it down, if Butler has an opportunity to become the defensive coordinator of the Cards as opposed to waiting it out in Pittsburgh to succeed LeBeau, he'll jump on it. Would you want to succeed the best defensive coordinator in the history of the NFL or go to a franchise who can't go anywhere but up? Think about it.

lilyoder6
02-07-2009, 10:24 AM
Mark it down, if Butler has an opportunity to become the defensive coordinator of the Cards as opposed to waiting it out in Pittsburgh to succeed LeBeau, he'll jump on it. Would you want to succeed the best defensive coordinator in the history of the NFL or go to a franchise who can't go anywhere but up? Think about it.

actually thats a wrong statement.. the cards can go down.. and they prob will this next season.. they just made the SB and they could go down in not making the playoffs.... if u rly wanted 2 go 2 a team that couldn't get any worse... that would be the lions

jev7452
02-07-2009, 10:51 AM
yeah i agree the cardinals can only go up by winninggg the SB next year which, lets be real here, probably will NOT happen.. so the only thing they can do is go down, which i think is more realistic. yeah he has a chance to make a bigger name for himself but im hoping his commitment to the steelers is strong enough to where he would want to wait for the chance to be an even bigger part of something great, something like being the DC for the pittsburgh steeler defense, best in the leauge

so all in all, DONT DO IT COACH BUTLER!!

SteelCityMom
02-07-2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah, I don't think it would be a smart move for him either. They caught a run of success this year, but to do as much personnel and player overhauling as they are right now, I don't see them doing anything great again anytime soon. Losing your OC, firing your DC, canning James, probably losing Boldin and a number of key players on defense and Warner possibly retiring (if not this year, then next year) is a lot of change for a team that was already struggling a good deal in the regular season.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-07-2009, 11:30 AM
Hopefully they go and bid on some of the Oline players we had that are free agents.

Didn't Grimm coach over them?lol He is one lucky sob to even have a job, lol
You would think he loved these guys.

Hard to say no, unless they anti up some dough with the acknoledgement that lebeau is going to be around for 1-2 more years than its his. IF in fact he is that good.
I can honestly say, after the Hc and the def and O guy, I'm sort of in the blind to how long these guys have been here and the value they have.
Considering our linebacker core is set for a while, and if they improve on the base of talent they have now, do we need a linebacker coach?LOL

No future def coach would be allowed to change from a 3-4 anyway. and a 3-4 is a blitzing scheme from the lb's, you cant change that on paper no matter how you write it up.

Hawkeye
02-07-2009, 11:30 AM
The Az - Cards are turning to the West Pittsburgh

KeiselPower99
02-07-2009, 11:52 AM
I read somewhere that they may look at Starks and Smith and sign one of em to be their new LT since Gandy is so overmatched against great players. Keith Bulter is a man in demand. Some people were expecting him to be offered the Carolina Dc job had we been eliminated. Whiz needs to piss off and build his own team not copy everything Cowher did.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-07-2009, 12:20 PM
I read somewhere that they may look at Starks and Smith and sign one of em to be their new LT since Gandy is so overmatched against great players. Keith Bulter is a man in demand. Some people were expecting him to be offered the Carolina Dc job had we been eliminated. Whiz needs to piss off and build his own team not copy everything Cowher did.

I could see that!! Grimmy wanting a good young LT in Starks. Please, sign him from us NOW!!!

Also, good to see a substantiated link to this story. I think Butler deserves an opportunity and good for him, but I think he may just be smarter to stick in the Burgh for another year and be the DC in Pittsburgh ..........if LeBeau retires.

If Lebeau is gonna stay another 4 seasons, then Keith should go pursue his aspirations.

steelreserve
02-07-2009, 01:14 PM
Now this is just getting sad. It's like an ex-girlfriend you dumped six months ago who still won't leave you alone. Time to get a restraining order against that crazy bitch.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-07-2009, 01:29 PM
Now this is just getting sad. It's like an ex-girlfriend you dumped six months ago who still won't leave you alone. Time to get a restraining order against that crazy bitch.

Yeah, but the difference is that its like you dumped her for Marissa Miller, so its more of a minor inconvenience than a real problem. :thumbsup:

lilyoder6
02-07-2009, 01:34 PM
maybe they will take BA has there new OC

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-07-2009, 01:41 PM
maybe they will take BA has there new OC

Interesting thought. But I dont think a guy under contract can move laterally :noidea: I think Arians would have to be offered a HC job to be signed away.

tony hipchest
02-07-2009, 02:14 PM
Interesting thought. But I dont think a guy under contract can move laterally :noidea: I think Arians would have to be offered a HC job to be signed away.yep (or asst HC is considered non lateral).

i talked to ken yesterday (meaning i listened to him on sirius) and he is ready to take over the playcalling duties himself. his team is grounded, his routine is set and as he said hes "got some experience in that area". he didnt close the door on anything but i seriously doubt he would go for arians.

a caller suggested mike martz being reunited with warner. tim and pat quickly shot that down, noting that whiz geared up more for the running game in the playoffs and martz ran warner out of st. louis.

i cant see how they wouldnt clash, but it was an interresting suggestion.

jasonhightower
02-07-2009, 07:16 PM
Good god, Martz is like one of those rashes that goes dormant for a while, then shows up out of nowhere. Geez... when is that guy gonna realize his show is over?

I believe Arizona's window is closed. If Warner retires and Darnsby is gone, they won't even make the playoffs next year.

lilyoder6
02-07-2009, 07:37 PM
with todd haley leaving and the poss of boldin leaving.. i don't see warner coming back as a cardinal.. so i can see him retiring.. unless unless he goes to the vikings.. which is a sweet deal..

MDSteel15
02-07-2009, 08:54 PM
Warner leaves = Cardinals finished!

lilyoder6
02-07-2009, 09:53 PM
i don't think the cards will be finished w/o warner.. obv they won't be as good.. but i think matt can come in and do a good job.. i mean shit u are throwing to larry fitz, steve breston and maybe boldin.. thats crazy good weps to have

CargoJon
02-07-2009, 10:00 PM
Don't the Cards run a 4-3? Why would they go after a guy from a 3-4 system...the Lards don't have the personnel to run a 3-4.

They'd be better off looking at someone like Sean McDermott of the Eagles....a Jim Johnson disciple.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-07-2009, 10:10 PM
Don't the Cards run a 4-3? Why would they go after a guy from a 3-4 system...the Lards don't have the personnel to run a 3-4.

They'd be better off looking at someone like Sean McDermott of the Eagles....a Jim Johnson disciple.

Because Whiz wants to change them to a 3-4. I think with Gabe Watson as a NT and Bryan Robinson, Darnell dockett....he thinks he has the makings of a 3-4 Defense.

Pitt$burgh$teeler$
02-08-2009, 12:15 AM
Whiz Go FOund SOme1 Else There R Other Teams Out There Besides The Steelers U KNow!

SamUK
02-08-2009, 02:46 AM
I believe Arizona's window is closed. If Warner retires and Darnsby is gone, they won't even make the playoffs next year.

Is everyone forgetting how DIRE that division is... win all 6 of the divisional match-ups and your in the playoffs virtually....

KeiselPower99
02-08-2009, 11:13 AM
Look at their division its weaker then my knees if i met Jessica Simpson.

The Duke
02-08-2009, 12:48 PM
update? from PFT but it's something


We’re hearing that the clubhouse favorite for the job is linebackers coach Bill Davis.

Davis was hired by the team in 2007, after coach Ken Whisenhunt got the job. Davis previously coordinated the 49ers’ defense (2005-06). Before that, he worked as linebacker coach for the Giants (2004), linebackers coach for the Falcons (2001-03), defensive assistant/defensive line for the Packers (2000), defensive assistant/linebackers for the Browns (1999), outside linebackers coach for the Panthers (1995-98).

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/08/davis-looks-to-be-the-cards-choice-for-defensive-coordinator/

I say they should hire him.......

DACEB
02-08-2009, 01:41 PM
Well if the plan has been to groom Butler for our DC, the team can make him assistant HC therefore another team can only grab him to make him their HC.

KeiselPower99
02-08-2009, 01:46 PM
Well if the plan has been to groom Butler for our DC, the team can make him assistant HC therefore another team can only grab him to make him their HC.

They cant name him the Assistant HC. Johnnie Mitchell our DLine Coach already has that tag. Could they name him Assistant Defensive Cordinator. Not sure how it would work out or look though.

mesaSteeler
02-08-2009, 02:31 PM
They cant name him the Assistant HC. Johnnie Mitchell our DLine Coach already has that tag. Could they name him Assistant Defensive Cordinator. Not sure how it would work out or look though.

Didn't Cowher name Whiz assistant head coach?

robzombie813
02-08-2009, 04:40 PM
If I remember correctly, Cowher tagged Russ Grimm as the Assistant Head Coach. Never had one before that.

KeiselPower99
02-08-2009, 07:20 PM
If I remember correctly, Cowher tagged Russ Grimm as the Assistant Head Coach. Never had one before that.

You are correct.

HometownGal
02-08-2009, 07:24 PM
i don't think the cards will be finished w/o warner.. obv they won't be as good.. but i think matt can come in and do a good job.. i mean shit u are throwing to larry fitz, steve breston and maybe boldin.. thats crazy good weps to have

Matt Leinart - are you serious? :doh: He's had a shot at the starting job with Fitz and Boldin as his wideouts and still had problems completing passes to those top notch receivers and keeping his head in the game. Right now, Warner is the backbone of that team and without him at the helm, they aren't going anywhere.

lilyoder6
02-08-2009, 08:10 PM
:tt:Matt Leinart - are you serious? :doh: He's had a shot at the starting job with Fitz and Boldin as his wideouts and still had problems completing passes to those top notch receivers and keeping his head in the game. Right now, Warner is the backbone of that team and without him at the helm, they aren't going anywhere.

matt was a rookie when he was starting.. again going back 2 a rookie, can u rly expect anything from a rookie...

the man has sat behind warner now 4 a yr and half and has learned 2 play the game..

but what do i know... actually coming starting with exp and with 3 ser weapons..

KeiselPower99
02-08-2009, 10:26 PM
Matt was named the starter after the 07 season and lost the job to Warner during training camp and preseason. He has had his shot during 07 and couldnt do what Warner does.

The Duke
02-08-2009, 10:41 PM
To be fair, Leinart was placed on IR early in 2007.

He wasn't having a good season, and Wiz had the whole two qb system, but I can't say he isn't going to be good based on 4 games played as a sophomore. His rookie season wasn't bad either

It will be either in his 4th or 5th season, but he will be a good qb.

I mean come on, this just screams franchise QB....

http://www.gossipboulevard.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/0200000033.jpg

:chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-08-2009, 10:57 PM
It will be either in his 4th or 5th season, but he will be a good qb.

I mean come on, this just screams franchise QB

http://www.gossipboulevard.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/0200000033.jpg

Duke, I am with you. You have to give the kid time, after all look at how long it takes other QB's to produce. Guys like Ben, Eli, Rivers, Cutler, Flacco, Ryan took.................oh, never mind. :wink:

lilyoder6
02-09-2009, 08:14 AM
Duke, I am with you. You have to give the kid time, after all look at how long it takes other QB's to produce. Guys like Ben, Eli, Rivers, Cutler, Flacco, Ryan took.................oh, never mind. :wink:

wait a sec.. evryone in giant land wanted eli's head b4 he won the sb... ben and flacco were just game managers and fell into great situations.. then rivers and cutler waited a yr then was thrown into the flame.. but rivers had lt and gates and a great def and cutler had a good def and his weps... the only real qb to blossom real early is ryan

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 09:50 AM
wait a sec.. evryone in giant land wanted eli's head b4 he won the sb... ben and flacco were just game managers and fell into great situations.. then rivers and cutler waited a yr then was thrown into the flame.. but rivers had lt and gates and a great def and cutler had a good def and his weps... the only real qb to blossom real early is ryan

You basically said:
- New York fans are fickle towards Manning- check.
-Ben is a game manager ......with 2 Lombardi trophys........O K :noidea:
-Rivers and Cutler didnt get in their first season.........sure.

So you are telling me that Jay Cutler had better weapons in Denver than Leinart had in Arizona..............right. :rolleyes:

FYI, Leinart was drafted ahead of Cutler in THE SAME DRAFT!!!!! Cutler has thrown for 45 TD's and 8,000 yards in the past 2 seasons and Leinart has done what??

Steeldude
02-09-2009, 11:22 AM
no huge loss. lebeau is the reason for the LBers success.

fansince'76
02-09-2009, 11:30 AM
ben and flacco were just game managers and fell into great situations..

Why do folks continue to believe that the '04 Steelers were a great team? They weren't. They went 6-10 in '03 with Maddox under center and swiss cheese for a secondary. Fact is, the '04 Steelers were a good but deeply flawed team that peaked in late October/early November and limped to the finish. The 15-1 record was more luck than anything else.

LukesDad88
02-09-2009, 01:14 PM
In the NFL, you don't "luck into" a 15-1 season. Especially when in the process, you take out two teams that were undefeated 8-9 weeks into the season that went on to win both Conference Championships. A team whose backups beat a team that needed a win to make the playoffs. No, if Ben could have had just a little more rest, I think that would have been a Super year.

fansince'76
02-09-2009, 01:54 PM
In the NFL, you don't "luck into" a 15-1 season. Especially when in the process, you take out two teams that were undefeated 8-9 weeks into the season that went on to win both Conference Championships. A team whose backups beat a team that needed a win to make the playoffs. No, if Ben could have had just a little more rest, I think that would have been a Super year.

Yeah, the team peaked those two weeks and tailed off badly to finish the year. If the Jets would have had an actual placekicker, we would have been one and done in the playoffs that year. We were not as good as that 15-1 record would indicate, sorry. I think the following season's 11-5 finish was a much more accurate indicator of how good a team we had. We had a good team in '04 and '05. It wasn't a great one.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 02:02 PM
I agree that I dont think 15-1 was luck. The team was flawed, but basically it had a good defense and solid running game with a QB that nobody had film on to gameplan against.

Patriots had the gameplan and Steelers made the mistakes that year and the rookie QB with the scaled down gameplan wasnt gonna come from behind. Bottom line for me is Leinart needs to grow up before he becomes mentioned in the same breath as Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, etc. if he isnt there already.

LukesDad88
02-09-2009, 02:11 PM
I think a big part of our dropoff at the end of that season was two-fold. Ben & Ben. Finishing off the regular season 15-1 has got to affect you. The kid probably was beginning to feel a little like Superman, and nothing could go wrong. On top of that, the arm had to be hanging on with chewing gum and duct tape by that point. Remember, the kid had been working out and demonstrating his skill to scouts since the Superbowl the year before. Straight through the combine, draft, minicamps, training camp, etc... Most rookie QB's aren't expected to play (neither was Ben), so the wear and tear isn't as bad or as obvious. Heck, that will probably be the hardest year with the biggest workload he'll ever experience in his life. That's why I'm impressed with Flacco, too.

fansince'76
02-09-2009, 02:15 PM
I think a big part of our dropoff at the end of that season was two-fold. Ben & Ben. Finishing off the regular season 15-1 has got to affect you. The kid probably was beginning to feel a little like Superman, and nothing could go wrong. On top of that, the arm had to be hanging on with chewing gum and duct tape by that point. Remember, the kid had been working out and demonstrating his skill to scouts since the Superbowl the year before. Straight through the combine, draft, minicamps, training camp, etc... Most rookie QB's aren't expected to play (neither was Ben), so the wear and tear isn't as bad or as obvious. Heck, that will probably be the hardest year with the biggest workload he'll ever experience in his life. That's why I'm impressed with Flacco, too.

Agreed. I'm glad that Ben got thrust into action when he did, in retrospect. :tt02:

markymarc
02-09-2009, 06:24 PM
Well that would totally suck if we lost Keith Butler. I would like to see him stick around to be the eventual replacement for LeBeau.

lilyoder6
02-09-2009, 07:49 PM
You basically said:
- New York fans are fickle towards Manning- check.
-Ben is a game manager ......with 2 Lombardi trophys........O K :noidea:
-Rivers and Cutler didnt get in their first season.........sure.

So you are telling me that Jay Cutler had better weapons in Denver than Leinart had in Arizona..............right. :rolleyes:

FYI, Leinart was drafted ahead of Cutler in THE SAME DRAFT!!!!! Cutler has thrown for 45 TD's and 8,000 yards in the past 2 seasons and Leinart has done what??

ur a complete moron rly... i was talking about the beginning of their yrs not now numnuts...

matt ryan is rly the only rookie QB to come in and play football

when ben came into the league as a rookie.. what did he do??? he barely attempted an avg of 15-18 pass plays a game.. and ben's rookie season he had a top 5 def.. not sure how u not call that a great situation.. and u had the bus..

all of these qb's except 4 ben in his 2nd yr SB win took at least 3 good yrs to become so called "elite" or be part of the 2nd tier of qb's behind manning and brady

kind of easy for cutler to throw more yrds and td's when he is starting and leinhart didn't start this yr and was in and out last yr..

and the weapons ordeal.. like the SB media lovefest said.. no one rly heard about fitz and boldin till they started 2 perform out of there minds and breaston was not there in the past.. "breaston lots and lots better than his rookie season" and they couldn't run for shit the past 2 yrs to help out the passing game.. at least this yr the running game was sufficient enough to say they could score running the ball

fansince'76
02-10-2009, 08:15 AM
matt ryan is rly the only rookie QB to come in and play football

when ben came into the league as a rookie.. what did he do??? he barely attempted an avg of 15-18 pass plays a game.. and ben's rookie season he had a top 5 def.. not sure how u not call that a great situation.. and u had the bus..


He threw one more TD pass as a rookie than Ryan did, with about 140 fewer attempts:

Ben's rookie numbers: http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/BenRoethlisberger.jpg

Ryan's rookie numbers: http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/MattRyan.jpg

The Bus was already 2-3 years past his prime by '04, and Ryan had the benefit of Michael Turner and the NFL's 2nd-ranked rushing attack to fall back on this past season.

Ryan's rookie season was not appreciably better than Ben's, sorry.

BTW, please chill with the name calling. You've been warned about it before.

tony hipchest
02-10-2009, 09:39 AM
A team has the right to deny a coach any lateral or upward advancement with another team UNLESS it is for a head coaching position. (i know this was kind of in question the past few days). Whiz mustve left on good standing with the Rooneys and they have never stood in the way of somebody advancing their career (see their unwillingness to use the franchise tag).

Butler has said it is his intentions to remain a steeler though.

-as per sirius radio.

lilyoder6
02-10-2009, 10:23 AM
He threw one more TD pass as a rookie than Ryan did, with about 140 fewer attempts:

Ben's rookie numbers: http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/BenRoethlisberger.jpg

Ryan's rookie numbers: http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/MattRyan.jpg

The Bus was already 2-3 years past his prime by '04, and Ryan had the benefit of Michael Turner and the NFL's 2nd-ranked rushing attack to fall back on this past season.

Ryan's rookie season was not appreciably better than Ben's, sorry.

BTW, please chill with the name calling. You've been warned about it before.


i'll give u the td amount.. but like u said he had turner and norwood taking all the td's..

but, ben was still a game manager in his rookie yr... i don't think u can count ryan as a game manager as he threw 434 passes..... and had bout 800 more passing yrds..

still it took most qb's a good 2-3 yrs b4 they become "elite" or 2nd teir qb's

u could even argue that ben was a game manager the yr we won the SB..
2005 Pittsburgh Steelers 12 12 168 268 62.7 2,385 8.9 17 9 23 129 98.6 31 69 2.2 3 2 1
he only attempted 268 passes... he thats lower than his rookie season

so the 1st 2 yrs he was avging 281.5 pass att a yr
and for the pastr 3 yrs he has been avging 447.3 pass att a yr
big jump from his 2nd to 3rd yr as a QB

tony hipchest
02-10-2009, 10:29 AM
i think ben had 3-4 come from behind wins throwing the ball his rookie season.

he put up over 300 yds in a shootout vs the giants. the coaches just had him in shackles because we were on such an amazing run and they didnt want a rookie tro screw it up.

doesnt mean he wasnt capable.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2009, 10:54 AM
ur a complete moron rly... i was talking about the beginning of their yrs not now numnuts...

matt ryan is rly the only rookie QB to come in and play football

when ben came into the league as a rookie.. what did he do??? he barely attempted an avg of 15-18 pass plays a game.. and ben's rookie season he had a top 5 def.. not sure how u not call that a great situation.. and u had the bus..

all of these qb's except 4 ben in his 2nd yr SB win took at least 3 good yrs to become so called "elite" or be part of the 2nd tier of qb's behind manning and brady

kind of easy for cutler to throw more yrds and td's when he is starting and leinhart didn't start this yr and was in and out last yr..

and the weapons ordeal.. like the SB media lovefest said.. no one rly heard about fitz and boldin till they started 2 perform out of there minds and breaston was not there in the past.. "breaston lots and lots better than his rookie season" and they couldn't run for shit the past 2 yrs to help out the passing game.. at least this yr the running game was sufficient enough to say they could score running the ball

Thanks!! To be called a Moron by you is really a compliment. As you so succinctly state that "no one really heard about Fitz and Boldin till they started 2 perform". I guess you havent been watching the NFL that much. :noidea:

Boldin was the NFL offensive Rookie of the year and has caught 1,000 yards or more in 4 of his 6 seasons. Fitzgerald has had 3 - 1,000 yard seasons in the past 4 (he only caught 946 yards in the other ), so I guess these guys just started to play good football this year? :chuckle:

I think that you are arguing that Matt Leinart has been a good QB in his 3 seasons in the NFL and just as good or if not better than guys like Cutler, Roethilisberger, Manning, Rivers, Flacco, Ryan. Furthermore, I think you are saying that Ben Roethilisberger really didnt come in and play football his rookie year. :rofl:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2009, 11:30 AM
i think ben had 3-4 come from behind wins throwing the ball his rookie season.

he put up over 300 yds in a shootout vs the giants. the coaches just had him in shackles because we were on such an amazing run and they didnt want a rookie tro screw it up.

doesnt mean he wasnt capable.
Yeah, remember the comeback win in Dallas that year.....it was a good one. :thumbsup:

What about stopping the Patriots 17 game win streak with 18 of 24, 196 yards and 2TD's?
Followed up by going 11 of 18 for 183 yards and 2 TD's against the Eagles.

A rookie "game manager" QB in Roethilisberger beat the 2 Super Bowl contenders in back to back weeks by throwing 4TD's and 0 INT's. .:tt03:He never really got to play that year. :chuckle:

lilyoder6
02-10-2009, 03:32 PM
Thanks!! To be called a Moron by you is really a compliment. As you so succinctly state that "no one really heard about Fitz and Boldin till they started 2 perform". I guess you havent been watching the NFL that much. :noidea:

Boldin was the NFL offensive Rookie of the year and has caught 1,000 yards or more in 4 of his 6 seasons. Fitzgerald has had 3 - 1,000 yard seasons in the past 4 (he only caught 946 yards in the other ), so I guess these guys just started to play good football this year? :chuckle:

I think that you are arguing that Matt Leinart has been a good QB in his 3 seasons in the NFL and just as good or if not better than guys like Cutler, Roethilisberger, Manning, Rivers, Flacco, Ryan. Furthermore, I think you are saying that Ben Roethilisberger really didnt come in and play football his rookie year. :rofl:

simply wow.. i am trying so hard not 2 say anything that will get me a vacation.. but wow.. u are out there.....

where in the hell did i say that matt leinart has been good the past 3 yrs??? where? i said that he can CAN be a good qb..... u must be blind... i never said he was better than all of those.. i was pointing out that all of those qb's took 2-3 yrs 2 become good... READ!!!!!!!!!!!!

and wow.. u pointed out 3 games.. b/c i forgot the ben played the whole game BY himself and the def or anyone else on the off was not the reason we won those games u can argue all u want... BEN WAS A GAME MANAGER HIS ROOKIE YR.. u can say this and that but i would bet that BEN would say he was just managing games his rookie season.. y do u think he had arguements with cowher to let him have more freedom...

tell me how much media cov boldin and fitz got b4 this season??? plz tell me..... they would just say there stats and move on.. thats rly letting ppl know who they are... EVEN during media week.. they were saying that they weren't know that well.....

lilyoder6
02-10-2009, 03:34 PM
i think ben had 3-4 come from behind wins throwing the ball his rookie season.

he put up over 300 yds in a shootout vs the giants. the coaches just had him in shackles because we were on such an amazing run and they didnt want a rookie tro screw it up.

doesnt mean he wasnt capable.

i'm not saying he wasn't capable.. but when he was in there if it was in shackles.. he was a game manager by choice or by orders..

#1LambertFan
02-10-2009, 04:06 PM
Damn I wonder what would happen if Tomlin threw the bone of an already eaten rib down on the ground. You think Whiz would go after it?

(no the rib part had nothing to do with race it just sounded like the best option)

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2009, 05:26 PM
i'm not saying he wasn't capable.. but when he was in there if it was in shackles.. he was a game manager by choice or by orders..

Probably more like by necessity. Roethlisberger wasnt gonna be given the key to the offense after 4 months with the Steelers. He honestly only played QB at Miami for 3 seasons and 1 in highschool at Findlay OH. And the Miami offense was mostly out of shotgun.

Conversely guys like Leinart (USC) and Matt Ryan (BC) played 4 years of college in pro style offenses run by guys that were/are NFL coaches. To somehow imply that Roethlisberger didnt really play in his first season is just wrong. I honestly doubt that Tommy Maddox was gonna lead the team to a 15-1 record that year if healthy.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2009, 05:41 PM
Lillyoder, I basically made a comment that Leinart going into his 4th season is pretty much on the way to being a bust when compared to the first 3 years of guys like : Cutler, Ben, Eli, Rivers, Flacco, Ryan.

You then proceed to post in response to that comparison, something like :
-Ben and Flacco were game managers
-The New York Media didnt like Eli
-Cutler had defense and weapons (as opposed to Leinart)
-Rivers got to sit a year before being productive
-Matt Ryan is the only true QB that flourished and was given full control of the offense.

You then proceed to call me, "a moron", "numnuts", "blind" and "out there". I on the other hand have implied that maybe you didnt watch much football if you think Jay Cutler had more offensive weapons on the Broncos than Leinart did with Fitzgerald, Boldin, Edggerin James and Bryant Johnson.

I believe that all those QB's mentioned are/were much further along than Leinart after their first 3 years in the league. I honestly dont know anybody that would take Leinart over Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco or the rest of those guys. If that is the opinion of a "blind", "out there", "moron" then I guess that is me.

Oh, I havent exactly seen any Cardinal players saying "its OK if Kurt retires....we have Matt Leinart to lead us". In fact, they all seem to want the 37 year old QB to come back. :chuckle:

mesaSteeler
02-10-2009, 06:23 PM
Another typical cardinals regular season anyone? :noidea:

They don't seem to get that stability and continuity are the way to win. It's because Bidwell is stingy cheapskate. Arizona is where coaches come to be fired. I'm sure if Whiz has a two down years they will fire him to.

HometownGal
02-10-2009, 06:28 PM
Damn I wonder what would happen if Tomlin threw the bone of an already eaten rib down on the ground. You think Whiz would go after it?

(no the rib part had nothing to do with race it just sounded like the best option)


ROFLMAO!!!!! :laughing::rofl::toofunny: Now THAT is funny, no matter who you are.

lilyoder6
02-10-2009, 06:40 PM
Lillyoder, I basically made a comment that Leinart going into his 4th season is pretty much on the way to being a bust when compared to the first 3 years of guys like : Cutler, Ben, Eli, Rivers, Flacco, Ryan.

You then proceed to post in response to that comparison, something like :
-Ben and Flacco were game managers
-The New York Media didnt like Eli
-Cutler had defense and weapons (as opposed to Leinart)
-Rivers got to sit a year before being productive
-Matt Ryan is the only true QB that flourished and was given full control of the offense.

You then proceed to call me, "a moron", "numnuts", "blind" and "out there". I on the other hand have implied that maybe you didnt watch much football if you think Jay Cutler had more offensive weapons on the Broncos than Leinart did with Fitzgerald, Boldin, Edggerin James and Bryant Johnson.

I believe that all those QB's mentioned are/were much further along than Leinart after their first 3 years in the league. I honestly dont know anybody that would take Leinart over Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco or the rest of those guys. If that is the opinion of a "blind", "out there", "moron" then I guess that is me.

Oh, I havent exactly seen any Cardinal players saying "its OK if Kurt retires....we have Matt Leinart to lead us". In fact, they all seem to want the 37 year old QB to come back. :chuckle:

the thing is.., matt had 1 full season of play then a so called "hof" stepped in front of him... u can't base it on his rookie season... and edge was a non-factor all his yrs in ari.. i guess he was a factor in the post-season but they still couldn't run well... and the ari def was not good either...

if ur going 2 call someone a bust after 1 season is insane... yea he has was benched.. but 4 warner who is so called HOF... and lets face it... fitz and boldin are a lot better than they were 3 yrs ago when matt was a rookie

all i am saying is that he has not had the luxury as some other successful young qb's and had a so called HOF qb come in and play...

it's like the deal with micheal turner.. he rly didn't have eye popping stats when he came into the league and played out his contract 4 the chargers.. but now look at him.. yrs after being a back-up.. had a tremedous season..

The Duke
02-10-2009, 07:28 PM
You know, I'm still giving Leinart more time

Rookie season, next season he has a new O Coordinator plus he's placed on IR, his third he has the whole partying problem and he can't beat out one of the best qbs in the league for the job

Not exactly the resume of a franchise qb. But not that of a bust either


Just my :twocents:

tony hipchest
02-10-2009, 07:46 PM
it's like the deal with micheal turner.. he rly didn't have eye popping stats when he came into the league and played out his contract 4 the chargers.. but now look at him.. yrs after being a back-up.. had a tremedous season..
c'mon dude. michael "the burner" turner had ypc averages of 5.2, 5.9, 6.3, 4.5 in his 1st 4 years.

EVERYBODY knew who he was, which is why he was such a hot free agent once his contract was up.

larry fitz led the league in rec yds, had over 100 catches, and 10 td's LONG before warner even got there (quick... tell me the cardinals qb in 05).

boldin was tearing shit up in his 1st game as a rookie pro.

maybe you didnt know who these guy were... doesnt mean nobody else did.

lilyoder6
02-10-2009, 08:19 PM
c'mon dude. michael "the burner" turner had ypc averages of 5.2, 5.9, 6.3, 4.5 in his 1st 4 years.

EVERYBODY knew who he was, which is why he was such a hot free agent once his contract was up.

larry fitz led the league in rec yds, had over 100 catches, and 10 td's LONG before warner even got there (quick... tell me the cardinals qb in 05).

boldin was tearing shit up in his 1st game as a rookie pro.

maybe you didnt know who these guy were... doesnt mean nobody else did.

u are wrong..
warner got there in 05 and i beleive started 10 games... fitz got there in 04 and he had 58 catches 780 yrds and 8td's the td's aren't that bad but the catches and yrds don't jump out on ya... then he had the big yr in 05.. but then went into a shell in 06 with only 69 catches, 946 yrds and 6 td's...

boldin had
04 56 catches 623 yrds and 1 td
05 102 catches 1.402 yrds and 7 td's great yr
06 83 catches 1,203 yrds and 4 td's not a bad yr but not a great yr

he did have a great rooke season and then went away the yr next.. then had a big yr.. then the next 2 yrs were not so great.. then he had another great yr

i knew of fitz b/c i was a fan of his since his pitt days and i knew of boldin.. but Trust me they were not as good as they are now...
if i threw the ball to eddie kennison 115 times does that make him a great wr?

and the turner idea... he was benefiting from a great o-line and fb.. and was benefiting as a switch to LT running the ball.. He was a great back-up but no 1 knew if he could be a evry down back

also.. i had a friend who wouldn't allow me not 2 know evryone or evry starter on evry team.. shit we would have games during weight lifting class and the transition of lifts would name starters of a team... trust me when i say i know who they were

tony hipchest
02-10-2009, 08:48 PM
u are wrong..
warner got there in 05 and i beleive started 10 games... fitz got there in 04 and he had 58 catches 780 yrds and 8td's the td's aren't that bad but the catches and yrds don't jump out on ya... then he had the big yr in 05.. but then went into a shell in 06 with only 69 catches, 946 yrds and 6 td's...

holy shit. youre right. my bad... i was thinking 05-08= 3 seasons. :doh:

my point still stands though.

58/780/8td is almost phenominal for a rookie wr. especially 1 with josh mccown as the qb, no running game, and a. boldin lining up opposite of him.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2009, 09:38 PM
the thing is.., matt had 1 full season of play then a so called "hof" stepped in front of him... u can't base it on his rookie season... and edge was a non-factor all his yrs in ari.. i guess he was a factor in the post-season but they still couldn't run well... and the ari def was not good either...

if ur going 2 call someone a bust after 1 season is insane... yea he has was benched.. but 4 warner who is so called HOF... and lets face it... fitz and boldin are a lot better than they were 3 yrs ago when matt was a rookie

all i am saying is that he has not had the luxury as some other successful young qb's and had a so called HOF qb come in and play...

it's like the deal with micheal turner.. he rly didn't have eye popping stats when he came into the league and played out his contract 4 the chargers.. but now look at him.. yrs after being a back-up.. had a tremedous season..

If anything Boldin's play has declined, but Fitgerald has improved. IMO, Leinart was thrust into that job too fast, but coming from a pro style offense where I think both Norm Chow and Lane Kiffin were his coordinators........he should have been able to handle it, but could not.

Leinart had a classic case of being the BMOC too long and forgot that everybody else in the NFL was on scholarship too. Leinart spent too much time knocking up a girl from the USC track team, partying with Paris Hilton and re-living the old frat house days. The guy needed to study the playbook and progressions and maybe he could have been the starter, but instead he is possibly gonna be stuck behind Warner for 2 more years if he comes back.

Bill Parcells said "effort without talent is hard to watch.....but talent without effort is a damn shame to see". That is Leinart and its a shame he might not get a chance to start learning on the field until his 6th season. Cutler took the job from Plummer, Leinart was given the job and gave it back.

BTW, we can disagree on topics with vigorous debate and opinions, but juvenile name calling is something I don't appreciate. Please leave that for the 18 year olds on the forum .......we are all better without it.

lilyoder6
02-10-2009, 09:42 PM
holy shit. youre right. my bad... i was thinking 05-08= 3 seasons. :doh:

my point still stands though.

58/780/8td is almost phenominal for a rookie wr. especially 1 with josh mccown as the qb, no running game, and a. boldin lining up opposite of him.

i know.. the yr's eff me up to sometimes.. very confusing.. but boldin did have a great rookie season.. but then he went away then came out and went away 4 2 yrs and cam back out

lilyoder6
02-10-2009, 09:45 PM
If anything Boldin's play has declined, but Fitgerald has improved. IMO, Leinart was thrust into that job too fast, but coming from a pro style offense where I think both Norm Chow and Lane Kiffin were his coordinators........he should have been able to handle it, but could not.

Leinart had a classic case of being the BMOC too long and forgot that everybody else in the NFL was on scholarship too. Leinart spent too much time knocking up a girl from the USC track team, partying with Paris Hilton and re-living the old frat house days. The guy needed to study the playbook and progressions and maybe he could have been the starter, but instead he is possibly gonna be stuck behind Warner for 2 more years if he comes back.

Bill Parcells said "effort without talent is hard to watch.....but talent without effort is a damn shame to see". That is Leinart and its a shame he might not get a chance to start learning on the field until his 6th season. Cutler took the job from Plummer, Leinart was given the job and gave it back.

BTW, we can disagree on topics with vigorous debate and opinions, but juvenile name calling is something I don't appreciate. Please leave that for the 18 year olds on the forum .......we are all better without it.

it's fine...

but cutler took the job from Jake the snake plummer.. and then he retired... i think we all knew jake was not the solution for the broncos

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2009, 09:48 PM
Back on topic..........What do the Steelers actually get out of allowing the cardinals to speak to Keith Butler?

The warm fuzzy feeling of letting a guy pursue his career .......if he wanted it.

Otherwise, the satasfaction of knowing that Keith Butler turned down the Arizona Cardinals D-coordinator job. :chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-10-2009, 09:53 PM
holy shit. youre right. my bad... i was thinking 05-08= 3 seasons. :doh:

my point still stands though.

58/780/8td is almost phenominal for a rookie wr. especially 1 with josh mccown as the qb, no running game, and a. boldin lining up opposite of him.

Warner played most of 05 with the Cards, but I think that was the year he was throwing INT's and fumbling lots.....so the speculation was that he never recovered from that thumb. McCown still had some great games with those WR's in 05.

But basically in 06, they thought Warner was washed up and McCown wasnt the answer, so they drafted Leinart and he really hasnt done anything to show that he can be the guy. For his sake, I hope he gets the reality check and steps his game up.........but I now hate the Cardinals, so they can all suck for decades!!

iloveben7
02-10-2009, 10:53 PM
geez can't the Cardinals turn to another team besides the Steelers?

xFreeWord420x
02-11-2009, 02:47 AM
Hopefully they go and bid on some of the Oline players we had that are free agents.

Didn't Grimm coach over them?lol He is one lucky sob to even have a job, lol
You would think he loved these guys.

Hard to say no, unless they anti up some dough with the acknoledgement that lebeau is going to be around for 1-2 more years than its his. IF in fact he is that good.
I can honestly say, after the Hc and the def and O guy, I'm sort of in the blind to how long these guys have been here and the value they have.
Considering our linebacker core is set for a while, and if they improve on the base of talent they have now, do we need a linebacker coach?LOL

No future def coach would be allowed to change from a 3-4 anyway. and a 3-4 is a blitzing scheme from the lb's, you cant change that on paper no matter how you write it up.

Are you kidding me? Butler is an awesome coach. Look what he has done with Woodley, and Harrison. Apparently you don't remember their previous seasons with us.. because they weren't as bright as this season. If there was anyone who I would want to succeed Lebeau, it would be him. Look at the talent he helps produce.

xFreeWord420x
02-11-2009, 02:50 AM
I could see that!! Grimmy wanting a good young LT in Starks. Please, sign him from us NOW!!!

Also, good to see a substantiated link to this story. I think Butler deserves an opportunity and good for him, but I think he may just be smarter to stick in the Burgh for another year and be the DC in Pittsburgh ..........if LeBeau retires.

If Lebeau is gonna stay another 4 seasons, then Keith should go pursue his aspirations.

Lebeau is here for atleast another 4 years. His mom is 91, and his dad lived to 95. He has many years left, and he already stated he wants them to be with the franchise.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-11-2009, 08:18 AM
Lebeau is here for atleast another 4 years. His mom is 91, and his dad lived to 95. He has many years left, and he already stated he wants them to be with the franchise.

Great, but pure speculation. Will see if Lebeau is still here in 2010, let alone 2013.

KeiselPower99
02-11-2009, 08:46 AM
Too bad Kevin Greene was already snagged by the Packers

steelballs
02-11-2009, 10:48 AM
I know that the rule of thumb for NFL assistant coaches is that you jump on opportunities when presented because you never know when they'll present themselves again, but in this case, I think Butler should stay.
The cards repeating what they did last year is a stretch in my book, so why would you leave the best franchise in the NFL simply for a promotion (outside of the $ issue).

He knows he's probably next in line for the DC position when LeBeau retires and let's be honest, how much longer do you think Dick will continue to coach? Butler should stay where he has continuity and the best opportunity to win... the $ will follow accordingly.

fansince'76
02-11-2009, 11:09 AM
The cards repeating what they did last year is a stretch in my book, so why would you leave the best franchise in the NFL simply for a promotion (outside of the $ issue).

I dunno - have you looked at the rest of the so-called "NFL teams" in the NFC West? You can pretty much chalk up 6 automatic wins for the Cards right now.

BozMan
02-11-2009, 12:12 PM
The P-G is saying that this whole Butler interviewing with Arizona story is all false:

NOTES -- A radio report in Arizona to the contrary, not only have the Steelers not given permission to the Cardinals to interview linebackers coach Keith Butler, no one from the Cardinals has asked to do so. Arizona coach Ken Whisenhunt fired defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast last week.

Link (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09042/948275-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml)

KeiselPower99
02-11-2009, 12:14 PM
I had heard that it was just a rumor that the LB coach Davis is the front runner.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-11-2009, 02:27 PM
The P-G is saying that this whole Butler interviewing with Arizona story is all false:

Link (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09042/948275-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml)

Thanks for the link. I guess its time to start another rumor.

Did you hear that Russ Grimm wants to sign Max Starks to replace Mike Gandy? :stirthepot:

AllD
02-11-2009, 02:54 PM
At first they said he was gone, then he wasn't. Then they had permission from the Steelers to talk and then a statement was released that nobody followed protocol. This story has been hacked to death in two days.

What are the facts?

KeiselPower99
02-11-2009, 05:20 PM
Thanks for the link. I guess its time to start another rumor.

Did you hear that Russ Grimm wants to sign Max Starks to replace Mike Gandy? :stirthepot:

Add Marvel to that rumor as well.

fansince'76
02-11-2009, 05:23 PM
At first they said he was gone, then he wasn't. Then they had permission from the Steelers to talk and then a statement was released that nobody followed protocol. This story has been hacked to death in two days.

What are the facts?

We'll find out the truth after the fact and a new DC has actually been named in AZ.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-11-2009, 05:24 PM
Add Marvel to that rumor as well.

No, Marvel Smith is being sought after by the Raiders. He grew up in Oakland and played Highschool football there.

All rumors gotta have some good reasoning behind them. :wink: