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lamberts-lost-tooth
02-09-2009, 10:30 AM
Okay ...You are the new GM of the Detroit Lions (poor sap)....Your team just made NFL basement history by going 0-16. Your fans are borderline despondent...and possibly one preseason loss away from jumping into Lake Michigan.

You have two incredibly hard taks at hand...1) Turn your team around. 2) Energize your Fanbase

The first is actually easier than the second because ...well...short of another 0-16 season, this next year will have to be an improvement on the last. The second is harder because of the history of failed draft picks... mediocre free agents...and inept management. The Lions Fans have to be sceptical that Detroits front office is even willing to make the type of changes that can field a competitive team.

The franchising of Matt Cassel is not the Patriots attempt to stockpile QB's...it is a message to a league that is short of talented quarterbacks...a message that says they are willing to trade, but it isnt going to be cheap. In fact, expensive to the tune of two first round draft picks. Simple supply and demand.

The Lions can bring a level of excitement to their organization with the simple acquisition of Matt Cassel. The are starving for a winning QB that can captain their offense. The have one of the best WR's in the game, an adequate young RB, and a first round linemen last year in Cherilus.

With three of the first 33 picks in the upcioming draft, the Lions are in a position to trade away one of their 1st round picks this year and the first round pick next year and put Cassel in a Lions uniform while still meeting some of their other urgent needs.

Scenerio #1:
Trade away the first overall pick this year (and next year) to the Patriots for Cassel...use the 20th pick in the first round on an OT like Britt or Beatty....use the first pick in the second round on CB's Moore or Butler to play opposite Bodden....then either grab another defensive player or trade the 3rd round pick to the Steelers and pick up Larry Foote to team up with Ernie Sims

Scenerio #2:
Use the 1st overall pick to grab OT Andre Smith...trade the 20th pick this year (...and next years 1st round pick) to grab Cassel...and the rest of the scenerio matches #1

Scenerio #3
Trade away both first round picks this year for Cassel...thereby simply making him their first round pick this year...I think this is unlikely since the Pats wont want to pay for three first round picks in one year.

Will the Lions pull the trigger...probably not...but if they are going to spend the money demanded by an overall #1 QB pick such as Stafford..they might as well go for a known commodity.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 11:04 AM
I dont think the Lions have to trade away both 1st round picks to get Cassell. If they were to sign him as a franchise tagged player, then they forfeit the picks.

I think they might be able to trade a 1st round pick for him as the Pats just wanted to make sure they got value for him.
I'm thinking some offseason moves like this:
-Cassel to Detroit
-Housyourmama to the Vikings
-Jordan Gross stays in Carolina
-Max Starks to Arizona
-Namdi Asomgua to Tampa Bay
-Dunta Robinson to Miami
-Ron Bartell to Denver
-Anquan Boldin traded to Miami

MasterOfPuppets
02-09-2009, 12:26 PM
the way i see it, no qb is going to make much of a difference next year for detroit. they aren't just a player or 2 away from being a contender , if i'm the detroit GM, i'd be thinking of nothing but building up the trenches this year, and trying to establish some kind of a running game, to take the pressure off my #1 pick next year.....bradford.or McCOY.. i'd take whoever i thought was the best OT with my first pick, then i'd grab alex mack at # 20.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-09-2009, 12:29 PM
I dont think the Lions have to trade away both 1st round picks to get Cassell. If they were to sign him as a franchise tagged player, then they forfeit the picks.



Pretty sure Cassel would demand two first round picks...but I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by MasterofPuppets
the way i see it, no qb is going to make much of a difference next year for detroit. they aren't just a player or 2 from being a contender , if i'm the detroit GM, i'd be thinking of nothing but building up the trenches this year, and trying to establish some kind of a running game, to take the pressure off my #1 pick next year.....bradford.or McCOY.. i'd take whoever i thought was the best OT with my first pick, then i'd grab alex mack at # 20

The move would help energize the fanbase and give them a proven commodity over a rookie QB....With Cherilus already drafted last year...and the pickup of another first round lineman this year, they should be able to open lanes for Kevin Smith who averages 4.1 yards with a poor line last year. I would look for them to also add at least one more O-lineman

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 12:55 PM
Pretty sure Cassel would demand two first round picks...but I could be wrong.



The move would help energize the fanbase and give them a proven commodity over a rookie QB....With Cherilus already drafted last year...and the pickup of another first round lineman this year, they should be able to open lanes for Kevin Smith who averages 4.1 yards with a poor line last year. I would look for them to also add at least one more O-lineman

KC put the tag on Jared Allen last year and then traded him away for the #17 pick and two- 3rd round picks.

Detroit might be able to trade Cassell for the #20 and #33 pick, then trade down with teams that want a QB like KC, San Fran, Washington, Houston, Minnesota and still get an OT and picks. I take Cassell over Stafford any day.

Crushzilla
02-09-2009, 01:03 PM
Save the draft picks, and skip over Cassel.

It's pretty clear that New England's objective is to have the Lions leap at Cassel and forfeit what will end up being two top 5 draft picks.

I still categorize Cassel as an unproven quarterback. Why would I waste TWO first round picks on him when I can waste ONE first round pick on Sanchez at 20.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-09-2009, 01:09 PM
KC put the tag on Jared Allen last year and then traded him away for the #17 pick and two- 3rd round picks.

Detroit might be able to trade Cassell for the #20 and #33 pick, then trade down with teams that want a QB like KC, San Fran, Washington, Houston, Minnesota and still get an OT and picks. I take Cassell over Stafford any day.

That would actually be more attractive to the Pats....Most teams dont want to deal with an overall #1 contract....I dont think KC would bite, but would wait to see if he fell to them...other teams might try and leapfrog KC...if they dont want to take a gamble on Sanchez.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-09-2009, 01:12 PM
Save the draft picks, and skip over Cassel.

It's pretty clear that New England's objective is to have the Lions leap at Cassel and forfeit what will end up being two top 5 draft picks.

I still categorize Cassel as an unproven quarterback. Why would I waste TWO first round picks on him when I can waste ONE first round pick on Sanchez at 20.


Or.....the Lions could sign Lefty.....and keep all their draft picks?...:noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
02-09-2009, 01:13 PM
Save the draft picks, and skip over Cassel.

It's pretty clear that New England's objective is to have the Lions leap at Cassel and forfeit what will end up being two top 5 draft picks.

I still categorize Cassel as an unproven quarterback. Why would I waste TWO first round picks on him when I can waste ONE first round pick on Sanchez at 20.

i agree.... if cassell pulls off that season with a team that didn't just win 18 consecutive games....maybe i'd feel better about him. i'd have no more confidence in him, then i would a solid college qb. he's not going to have the benefit of a solid line,wes welker, and randy moss.plus...what kind of contract will it take to get sign him?

Crushzilla
02-09-2009, 01:28 PM
If I am the Lion GM this is my hopeful set-up going into next year.

Offense
QB: Byron Leftwich (Matt Stafford waiting in the wings)
RB: Kevin Smith
RB: Maurice Morris
FB: Kreider! But more than likely I would stick with what I have
WR: Calvin Johnson
WR: Touraj Houshmandzadeh
WR: Jabar Gaffney
TE: Michael Gaines (Address this early next year)
TE: Casey Kitzsimmons
LT: William Beatty
LG: Jeff Backus
C: Dan Raiola
RG: Kraig Urbik (Third round draft pick, Wisc) Ya I put a 3rd round rook on the line.. big deal.. wanna fight about it!
RT: Gosder Cherilus

Realistically, you can't break the bank on sexy free agents.

The free agents that have been added play a role well. Lefty has a Super Bowl ring and wouldn't be a bad mentor for Stafford. In the draft I took Stafford at 1 overall and Beatty at 20.

You don't rebuild a team with everyone's leftovers.

Maurice Morris is a pick-up that comes pretty cheap. He's a nice back-up for the emerging Kevin Smith.

The only real sexy free agent pick-up is Touraj. I feel like the guy has a lot left in the tank and should probably get a lot in the bank.

Johnson, Housh, and Gaffney in the slot would be a nice WR group for whoever is throwing the ball.

Logic says to take the LT with franchise QB. Take Beatty and plug him in immediately. Slide Backus to LG. (if I'm not mistaken) he is familiar with the position. Raiola isn't a bad center, and I have to give Cherilus a chance to develop.

The RG position is a COMPLETE toss-up.

EDIT: It's not winning the Super Bowl, but it's a start!

Crushzilla
02-09-2009, 01:34 PM
If I could elaborate on my QB situation.

I know that we all want a lucrative contract and guaranteed starting gig for Lefty. (I'm sure it's what he wants)

To be honest, though, I don't see it happening again. He's going to have probably settle for a situation where he is going to have to fight every day to win or hold a starting gig.

This is a nice fit for him. He is basically guaranteed the starting job (since I'm the GM and not a moron). It's his to lose to the rookie.

If it's an Aaron Smith or Brady Quinn situation and we don't see Stafford for a few years because Lefty is tearin' it up... so be it. We will deal with that splendid outcome later on.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-09-2009, 01:38 PM
Do you know how much I would enjoy seeing NO ONE pick up Cassel and the Patriots would get stuck with almost 30 million in cap space wrapped up in the QB position???:chuckle:

As a fan I would love that...but as the Lions GM, I would grab Cassel just to get people back in the seats.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 01:44 PM
Do you know how much I would enjoy seeing NO ONE pick up Cassel and the Patriots would get stuck with almost 30 million in cap space wrapped uop in the QB position???:chuckle:

As a fan I would love that...but as the Lions GM, I would grab Cassel just to get people back in the seats.

True. If you can trade away the #1 pick overall, then its probably a wash too. Have to pay the #1 pick a whole ton of money....might as well do it to a guy that has shown he can win games in the NFL instead of maybe drafting the 2nd coming of Joey Harrington.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-09-2009, 02:09 PM
If I am the Lion GM this is my hopeful set-up going into next year.

Offense
QB: Byron Leftwich (Matt Stafford waiting in the wings)
RB: Kevin Smith
RB: Maurice Morris
FB: Kreider! But more than likely I would stick with what I have
WR: Calvin Johnson
WR: Touraj Houshmandzadeh
WR: Jabar Gaffney
TE: Michael Gaines (Address this early next year)
TE: Casey Kitzsimmons
LT: William Beatty
LG: Jeff Backus
C: Dan Raiola
RG: Kraig Urbik (Third round draft pick, Wisc) Ya I put a 3rd round rook on the line.. big deal.. wanna fight about it!
RT: Gosder Cherilus

Realistically, you can't break the bank on sexy free agents.

The free agents that have been added play a role well. Lefty has a Super Bowl ring and wouldn't be a bad mentor for Stafford. In the draft I took Stafford at 1 overall and Beatty at 20.

You don't rebuild a team with everyone's leftovers.

Maurice Morris is a pick-up that comes pretty cheap. He's a nice back-up for the emerging Kevin Smith.

The only real sexy free agent pick-up is Touraj. I feel like the guy has a lot left in the tank and should probably get a lot in the bank.

Logic says to take the LT with franchise QB. Take Beatty and plug him in immediately. Slide Backus to LG. (if I'm not mistaken) he is familiar with the position. Raiola isn't a bad center, and I have to give Cherilus a chance to develop.

The RG position is a COMPLETE toss-up.

EDIT: It's not winning the Super Bowl, but it's a start!

I like alot of what I see there and think you pretty close to what they will do. If they dont go Cassel, I think Byron is the way to go with a rook learning the position behind him.
Your O-line is almost identical to what I was thinking with Beatty or Britton at LT...I would however, forget about FB..Felton is a stud and his blocking is the sole reason that you see Smith with good numbers.
If They would let Felton run..i think he would be a very good short yardage back also.
Johnson, Housh, and Gaffney in the slot would be a nice WR group for whoever is throwing the ball.

MasterOfPuppets
02-09-2009, 02:16 PM
True. If you can trade away the #1 pick overall, then its probably a wash too. Have to pay the #1 pick a whole ton of money....might as well do it to a guy that has shown he can win games in the NFL instead of maybe drafting the 2nd coming of Joey Harrington.you mean a guy who's shown he can win games on a previous 18-1 team? derick anderson probably would've won 11 games on that team too....andersons 10 wins on a crappy browns team with a pathetic coach was far more impressive than what cassell did..:noidea:

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-09-2009, 02:38 PM
you mean a guy who's shown he can win games on a previous 18-1 team? derick anderson probably would've won 11 games on that team too....andersons 10 wins on a crappy browns team with a pathetic coach was far more impressive than what cassell did..:noidea:

I predicted that Anderson was a wash-out...his stats didnt stand up to scrutiny...I think that Cassel may not be the next coming of Johny U....but he will be above average with another team.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 02:47 PM
you mean a guy who's shown he can win games on a previous 18-1 team? derick anderson probably would've won 11 games on that team too....andersons 10 wins on a crappy browns team with a pathetic coach was far more impressive than what cassell did..:noidea:
I would say that Anderson's 10 wins against a weak schedule 2 years ago was a bit easier than Cassell's 11 wins with no running game, although Randy Moss makes everybody better and they did somehow draw the AFC west and NFC west :noidea: .

I can remember watching Cassell get time in the Hall of Fame game in 2005 and thought that the Pats had done it again, by unearthing a starting QB in the late rounds of the draft again. A guy that had to sit behind a Heisman winner in Leinart. Then he got some time in late 2005 :

In the Patriots' final game of the 2005 regular season, a 28-26 loss to the Miami Dolphins on January 1, 2006, Cassel played the final three quarters. Though he was sacked for a Safey, he threw two touchdown passes, one to Tim Dwight, and the second to Ben Watson. http://armchairgm.wikia.com/Matt_Cassel

You can label him Scott Mitchell, Rob Johnson, Matt Schaub or whatever, but after watching him play several games last season, including his 400 yard, 3TD, 0 INT passing game against the Jets on NFL Network, I would say he has proven more in the NFL than Matt Stafford.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-09-2009, 02:52 PM
I predicted that Anderson was a wash-out...his stats didnt stand up to scrutiny...I think that Cassel may not be the next coming of Johny U....but he will be above average with another team.

I think Anderson is a good QB and will resurrect his career somewhere. Defenses having a year of film on him and him having "Stonehands" Edwards drop passes, K2 being K2, Stallworth getting injured..............basically being in Cleveland wasnt good for a young QB.

I think a big, tall, mobile QB with a strong arm and 3 years studying Brady in McDaniels system has a chance to be a franchise QB. Maybe more than one that still studies beer pong with coeds more than his playbook like Leinart.

Crushzilla
02-09-2009, 02:55 PM
I like alot of what I see there and think you pretty close to what they will do. If they dont go Cassel, I think Byron is the way to go with a rook learning the position behind him.
Your O-line is almost identical to what I was thinking with Beatty or Britton at LT...I would however, forget about FB..Felton is a stud and his blocking is the sole reason that you see Smith with good numbers.
If They would let Felton run..i think he would be a very good short yardage back also.
Johnson, Housh, and Gaffney in the slot would be a nice WR group for whoever is throwing the ball.

Thank you, LLT.

I really didn't know much about Felton. In that case, definitely keep him and Smith together.

The only problem I can see with my receiving group is that Gaffney may be under the delusional notion that he's number #2 quality in this group. I think he's a million times more valuable in the slot anyhow. Touraj, unfortunately, is a top 5 possession receiver. He would have to start.

Crushzilla
02-10-2009, 05:01 PM
CB Bodden, WR Furrey among six players released by Lions

Associated Press

ALLEN PARK, Mich. -- The Detroit Lions have begun to purge players who were part of the NFL's first 0-16 team.

High-priced cornerback Leigh Bodden was one of six players released by the Lions on Monday.

The other players let go were wide receiver Mike Furrey, guard Edwin Mulitalo, safety Dwight Smith, tight end Dan Campbell and offensive tackle Jon Dunn.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80ea837f&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

That about confirms that the Lions will be taking a LT with one of their first two picks. Backus will take Mulitalo's spot at LG, and the rookie will be inserted immediately.

ShutDown24
02-10-2009, 05:03 PM
The Lions said recently that Leigh Bodden won't return for another season. Just thought that was relevant to this topic.

TackleMeBen
02-14-2009, 01:19 AM
there is talk that the lions might try and get vick from atlanta when he gets out of the pokey.

MasterOfPuppets
02-14-2009, 03:18 AM
there is talk that the lions might try and get vick from atlanta when he gets out of the pokey. i heard the lions already offered 2 cartoons of ciggerettes for him.........:noidea:

lilyoder6
02-14-2009, 10:59 AM
i would not trade 4 cassell.. i want all the draft picks i can get so i can somewhat rebuild my team and be able to compete once in a while

TackleMeBen
02-14-2009, 03:54 PM
its going to take the lions along time to rebuild and be competitive.

lilyoder6
02-14-2009, 05:47 PM
its going to take the lions along time to rebuild and be competitive.

not necessarily, they have a great wr, and a pretty good rb in smith.. they get an o-line 2 block and or a qb to throw the ball.. they can win some games.. thats what the saints do at least.. just try and score more than the other team.. and there was a couple games last yr they could of won..