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Polamalu Princess
02-16-2009, 05:42 PM
I found this very upsetting. Interesting that it has not made national headlines.


Muzzammil Hassan, right, founder of Bridges TV, is charged with murder in the beheading of his wife, Aasiya Hassan, left, in Orchard Park.


Prominent Orchard Park man charged with beheading his wife
By Gene Warner

Orchard Park police are investigating a particularly gruesome killing, the beheading of a woman, after her husband — an influential member of the local Muslim community — reported her death to police Thursday.

Police identified the victim as Aasiya Z. Hassan, 37. Detectives have charged her husband, Muzzammil Hassan, 44, with second-degree murder.

"He came to the police station at 6:20 p.m. [Thursday] and told us that she was dead," Orchard Park Police Chief Andrew Benz said late this morning.

Muzzammil Hassan told police that his wife was at his business, Bridges TV, on Thorn Avenue in the village. Officers went to that location and discovered her body.

Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light.

The killing apparently occurred some time late Thursday afternoon. Detectives still are looking for the murder weapon.

"Obviously, this is the worst form of domestic violence possible," Erie County District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III said today.

Authorities say Aasiya Hassan recently had filed for divorce from her husband.

"She had an order of protection that had him out of the home as of Friday the 6th [of February]," Benz said.

Muzzammil Hassan was arraigned before Village Justice Deborah Chimes and sent to the Erie County Holding Center.

gwarner@buffnews.com

http://www.buffalonews.com/437/story/578644.html

7SteelGal43
02-16-2009, 05:53 PM
(quote) Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light.(end quote)

well, that'll do it.

SCSTILLER
02-16-2009, 05:56 PM
"Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light."

The reason this isn't all over the news is because it will make the peaceful muslims look like murderers! That is why. But if it was an american attacking a muslim in the US it wouldbe all over the news

HometownGal
02-16-2009, 06:07 PM
"Obviously, this is the worst form of domestic violence possible," Erie County District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III said today.

Gee Frank - ya think? :doh:

I so wish this country would penalize murderers the way they do in third world countries. This Shkabibble chopped off his wife's head - he should endure the same horrible fate.

I don't like or trust ANY Muslim after 911. I know the 911 perps were extremists, but when all is said and done, Muslims of any form stick together like glue.

JEFF4i
02-16-2009, 06:14 PM
I don't like or trust ANY Muslim after 911. I know the 911 perps were extremists, but when all is said and done, Muslims of any form stick together like glue.

Wow. You realize that you are part of the problem too, yes?

There was a little get together here in Albuquerque after 9/11 of some Muslims just thrashing what some of them had done, laying into them and talking how these are not the teachings of Muhammad. It was open to everyone, and showed that some of them truly believe in peace, and are disgusted with what their "brothers" have done.

Believe it or not, there are good and bad in all things. Of course, I really wasn't too hot on Protestants and Catholics (I was raised Catholic) for a while there, I mean what with burning eachother and all that, and we all know Christians are devoid of sensibility when Faith is questioned, so I don't trust any of them either!

Its a real shame that this guy did this, part of the problem is that many of those on both sides (Muslim, Palestinian, Israeli, U.S.) that influence policy are less than enlightened and virtuous people.

Polamalu Princess
02-16-2009, 06:54 PM
Wow. You realize that you are part of the problem too, yes?

There was a little get together here in Albuquerque after 9/11 of some Muslims just thrashing what some of them had done, laying into them and talking how these are not the teachings of Muhammad. It was open to everyone, and showed that some of them truly believe in peace, and are disgusted with what their "brothers" have done.

Believe it or not, there are good and bad in all things. Of course, I really wasn't too hot on Protestants and Catholics (I was raised Catholic) for a while there, I mean what with burning eachother and all that, and we all know Christians are devoid of sensibility when Faith is questioned, so I don't trust any of them either!

Its a real shame that this guy did this, part of the problem is that many of those on both sides (Muslim, Palestinian, Israeli, U.S.) that influence policy are less than enlightened and virtuous people.

She is not part of the problem, as the Muslim’s themselves, have created and continue, steadfast might I add, to prove that they hate us. Sure, there are good Muslims, but I do not trust them either, as they will stick to their faith before they would listen to reason. I had the chance a couple of years ago to read the Koran – it is not what most think that it is - a peacefull teaching of God.

There are bad people that call themselves “Christians” but they do not behave in the manner that the Muslims do, not even close.

I will stick by my Bible and choose to trust no one, but God. The Muslim religion, as a whole scares me.

SteelCurtain7
02-16-2009, 07:16 PM
Wow. You realize that you are part of the problem too, yes?

There was a little get together here in Albuquerque after 9/11 of some Muslims just thrashing what some of them had done, laying into them and talking how these are not the teachings of Muhammad. It was open to everyone, and showed that some of them truly believe in peace, and are disgusted with what their "brothers" have done.

Believe it or not, there are good and bad in all things. Of course, I really wasn't too hot on Protestants and Catholics (I was raised Catholic) for a while there, I mean what with burning eachother and all that, and we all know Christians are devoid of sensibility when Faith is questioned, so I don't trust any of them either!

Its a real shame that this guy did this, part of the problem is that many of those on both sides (Muslim, Palestinian, Israeli, U.S.) that influence policy are less than enlightened and virtuous people.

Be careful with that intolerant "Christians are devoid of sensibility" swipe. I think Preacher and myself (among others) on here take offense at that ridiculous ad hominem.

A little history lesson, ladies and gents: the founder of Islam, Mohammed, was truly the first fundamentalist Muslim. Considering his track record of beheadings/maimings/murder/theft/deceit, I'm not surprised that other Muslims follow in his footsteps, even today.

Also--this is only second-degree murder? What does it take to qualify for first-degree murder--setting his wife on fire after beheading her? Good grief. :banging:

Dino 6 Rings
02-16-2009, 08:59 PM
Wow. You realize that you are part of the problem too, yes?

There was a little get together here in Albuquerque after 9/11 of some Muslims just thrashing what some of them had done, laying into them and talking how these are not the teachings of Muhammad. It was open to everyone, and showed that some of them truly believe in peace, and are disgusted with what their "brothers" have done.

Believe it or not, there are good and bad in all things. Of course, I really wasn't too hot on Protestants and Catholics (I was raised Catholic) for a while there, I mean what with burning eachother and all that, and we all know Christians are devoid of sensibility when Faith is questioned, so I don't trust any of them either!

Its a real shame that this guy did this, part of the problem is that many of those on both sides (Muslim, Palestinian, Israeli, U.S.) that influence policy are less than enlightened and virtuous people.


You realize this is Part of the Culture of this Relgion right?

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/08/10/honor_killing_comes_to_the_us/

Polamalu Princess
02-16-2009, 09:30 PM
You realize this is Part of the Culture of this Relgion right?

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/08/10/honor_killing_comes_to_the_us/

Indeed.

JEFF4i
02-16-2009, 09:33 PM
Be careful with that intolerant "Christians are devoid of sensibility" swipe. I think Preacher and myself (among others) on here take offense at that ridiculous ad hominem.

A little history lesson, ladies and gents: the founder of Islam, Mohammed, was truly the first fundamentalist Muslim. Considering his track record of beheadings/maimings/murder/theft/deceit, I'm not surprised that other Muslims follow in his footsteps, even today.

Also--this is only second-degree murder? What does it take to qualify for first-degree murder--setting his wife on fire after beheading her? Good grief. :banging:


It is hardly ridiculous. Were I who I am spiritually now I wouldn't trust one darn Christian a couple hundred years ago, and who could blame me? Of course, those who do not preach violence -as I'm sure Preacher doesn't preach violence-, are an asset to the world.

I'm saying, its a long process, but helping to take the first step is a possibility. I mean, let's face it, with the Crusades, Inquisitions, and whatnot, the Church and Christian faith in general could have been labelled the world's greatest threat of peace a few centuries ago, and look at it now.


You realize this is Part of the Culture of this Relgion right?

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/08/10/honor_killing_comes_to_the_us/


Oh, certainly it is a culture of violence, and I suppose "trust" is rarely warranted, but to say that every single Muslim would see you float down the river rather than possibly go against his faith is naive. Honestly, I know some Muslims who are incredible people, and the past 8 years have been a challenge.

KeiselPower99
02-16-2009, 09:41 PM
Screw the muslims and all their BS. How do they separate the levels of murder???They dude cut his wifes head off shouldnt that be the top level??

Polamalu Princess
02-16-2009, 09:48 PM
Screw the muslims and all their BS. How do they separate the levels of murder???They dude cut his wifes head off shouldnt that be the top level??

Top level - YES! This is just sick and not what God would ever approve.

Hapa
02-16-2009, 10:03 PM
I can't believe you guys are so openly prejudice against Muslims. You may not (or you might, how the hell do I know) know that many Muslims personally, because they are just like anyone else.

It seems so ignorant, old-fashioned, and KKK-like to say, things like "Screw the muslims and all their BS", "I don't like or trust ANY Muslim", "The Muslim religion, as a whole scares me." (all of which are quotes from this thread)

I understand that for those of you that live in Pittsburgh, there is not as much diversity there as a lot of other places, but Muslims I know are no different than us. You talk about them like they're a different species than us.

It just seems so ignorant to put them all together into one category. We talk about not fixing mistakes from the past, but a lot of you seem as out rightly racist as white people were to blacks (and most other races) in the 19th century and before. Didn't it horrify you when you learned in school about the things that blacks, Native Americans, and other minorites went through? Every new race that comes into America has to go through it, it's ridiculous that some of us never learn.

But I'm 16... what the hell do I know better than you guys right?

Godfather
02-16-2009, 10:14 PM
I found this very upsetting. Interesting that it has not made national headlines.



It hasn't?? Then why did I already know about it, seeing as how I never read Buffalo news?

T&B fan
02-16-2009, 10:15 PM
whos God has killed more ????ours , theres ,or was it the other one ...

Dino 6 Rings
You realize this is Part of the Culture of this Relgion right?

yes all relgion at one time or another ...

JEFF4i
02-16-2009, 10:18 PM
I can't believe you guys are so openly prejudice against Muslims. You may not (or you might, how the hell do I know) know that many Muslims personally, because they are just like anyone else.

It seems so ignorant, old-fashioned, and KKK-like to say, things like "Screw the muslims and all their BS", "I don't like or trust ANY Muslim", "The Muslim religion, as a whole scares me." (all of which are quotes from this thread)

I understand that for those of you that live in Pittsburgh, there is not as much diversity there as a lot of other places, but Muslims I know are no different than us. You talk about them like they're a different species than us.

It just seems so ignorant to put them all together into one category. We talk about not fixing mistakes from the past, but a lot of you seem as out rightly racist as white people were to blacks (and most other races) in the 19th century and before. Didn't it horrify you when you learned in school about the things that blacks, Native Americans, and other minorites went through? Every new race that comes into America has to go through it, it's ridiculous that some of us never learn.

But I'm 16... what the hell do I know better than you guys right?

No no, they are correct. I'm certain that almost every single Muslim, all 1.5 billion of them, are untrustworthy.

Oh, and yes some of the Qur'an is violent, and some of it isn't. Y'know, like the Bible.

Polamalu Princess
02-16-2009, 10:23 PM
It hasn't?? Then why did I already know about it, seeing as how I never read Buffalo news?

Sorry, I just did not see it in the major news headlines.

Hapa
02-16-2009, 10:44 PM
I can't believe you guys are so openly prejudice against Muslims. You may not (or you might, how the hell do I know) know that many Muslims personally, because they are just like anyone else.

It seems so ignorant, old-fashioned, and KKK-like to say, things like "Screw the muslims and all their BS", "I don't like or trust ANY Muslim", "The Muslim religion, as a whole scares me." (all of which are quotes from this thread)

I understand that for those of you that live in Pittsburgh, there is not as much diversity there as a lot of other places, but Muslims I know are no different than us. You talk about them like they're a different species than us.

It just seems so ignorant to put them all together into one category. We talk about not fixing mistakes from the past, but a lot of you seem as out rightly racist as white people were to blacks (and most other races) in the 19th century and before. Didn't it horrify you when you learned in school about the things that blacks, Native Americans, and other minorites went through? Every new race that comes into America has to go through it, it's ridiculous that some of us never learn.

But I'm 16... what the hell do I know better than you guys right? No no, they are correct. I'm certain that almost every single Muslim, all 1.5 billion of them, are untrustworthy.

Oh, and yes some of the Qur'an is violent, and some of it isn't. Y'know, like the Bible.

It really is crazy that they're so racist and not ashamed of it. They're saying they would never like or trust anyone once they found out they were Muslim.

I'm sure they hear about racism from other people and think to themselves "I'm not racist". They should realize they are extremely racist.

Polamalu Princess saw my post and didn't reply to it. She'll probably reply now that I'm calling her out.

KeiselPower99
02-16-2009, 10:48 PM
Correct me if Im wrong but didnt Muslims hijack some planes and fly them into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon??? They are not tolerate of any religion but theres and we are supposed to ignore them doing crazy $hit like this??? Im not a racist. If someone is told by their crazy ass god to murder you then I think you should be a lil intolerate of them.

fansince'76
02-16-2009, 10:53 PM
It really is crazy that they're so racist and not ashamed of it. They're saying they would never like or trust anyone once they found out they were Muslim.

I'm sure they hear about racism from other people and think to themselves "I'm not racist". They should realize they are extremely racist.

Polamalu Princess saw my post and didn't reply to it. She'll probably reply now that I'm calling her out.

I think you need to pull your head out and learn what "racism" actually means before you call anyone out for being so. Islam is a RELIGION, not a RACE. Learn the difference.

JEFF4i
02-16-2009, 11:01 PM
Correct me if Im wrong but didnt Muslims hijack some planes and fly them into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon??? They are not tolerate of any religion but theres and we are supposed to ignore them doing crazy $hit like this??? Im not a racist. If someone is told by their crazy ass god to murder you then I think you should be a lil intolerate of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Christians in the U.S., and many other countries, made a public display of burning someone alive.

Good men, and bad men, live under every flag, ever religion.

I think you need to pull your head out and learn what "racism" actually means before you call anyone out for being so. Islam is a RELIGION, not a RACE. Learn the difference.

True. Kind of nitpicking, but true. We'll just say its prejudice.

Hapa
02-16-2009, 11:03 PM
Correct me if Im wrong but didnt Muslims hijack some planes and fly them into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon??? They are not tolerate of any religion but theres and we are supposed to ignore them doing crazy $hit like this??? Im not a racist. If someone is told by their crazy ass god to murder you then I think you should be a lil intolerate of them.

I understand that we can't tolerate terrorists, but to hate all Muslims just because the actions of a small percenatage of them seems completely prejudice to me. What about the Christian man that killed a lesbian, saying Jesus told him to do it. Should I hate myself because that happened? How many Catholics, Huguenots, and Protestants were killed in Europe in the name of God? Should we hate all them?

It really is crazy that they're so racist and not ashamed of it. They're saying they would never like or trust anyone once they found out they were Muslim.

I'm sure they hear about racism from other people and think to themselves "I'm not racist". They should realize they are extremely racist.

Polamalu Princess saw my post and didn't reply to it. She'll probably reply now that I'm calling her out. I think you need to pull your head out and learn what "racism" actually means before you call anyone out for being so. Islam is a RELIGION, not a RACE. Learn the difference.

That's not the point of what I'm fighting for. Yes you are right, and I was wrong to call it "racism". But is terminology important? That's not what this is about. Are you saying that because it is a religion, it is therefore right to hate all Muslims? I had my terminology wrong, but it seems like you're just looking for me to make an error that is unimportant and attack it, because you know the basis of my argument is correct and yours is wrong.

To hate someone before you meet them is wrong, can you deny that? If you truly believe that is right, then you're right, I'm wrong. I don't think you should hate anyone if you know NOTHING about them other than race, sex, religion.

fansince'76
02-16-2009, 11:06 PM
That's not the point of what I'm fighting for. Yes you are right, and I was wrong to call it "racism". But is terminology important? That's not what this is about. Are you saying that because it is a religion, it is therefore right to hate all Muslims? I had my terminology wrong, but it seems like you're just looking for me to make an error that is not important and attacking it, because you know the basis of my argument is correct and yours is wrong.

When it comes to making value judgments, who are you or I to say what's "right" and "wrong?" For the record, I don't hate all Muslims. I certainly don't hate Muhammad Ali or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, for example. Would I feel a little apprehensive getting on a plane with someone wearing a turban? Yep. Sorry, but I would.

JEFF4i
02-16-2009, 11:14 PM
When it comes to making value judgments, who are you or I to say what's "right" and "wrong?" For the record, I don't hate all Muslims. I certainly don't hate Muhammad Ali or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, for example. Would I feel a little apprehensive getting on a plane with someone wearing a turban? Yep. Sorry, but I would.

Apprehensive? Makes sense to me. Two kids are behind a building in a shady area with a girl who, at a glance, seems distressed. Signals are okay, and one thing, but openly prejudice with almost no rational foundation is another.

Hapa
02-16-2009, 11:15 PM
When it comes to making value judgments, who are you or I to say what's "right" and "wrong?" For the record, I don't hate all Muslims. I certainly don't hate Muhammad Ali or Kareen Abdul-Jabbar, for example. Would I feel a little apprehensive getting on a plane with someone wearing a turban? Yep. Sorry, but I would.

That's still prejudice. Apprehension or hate, it's still prejudice, treating someone different based on how they look. I'm no one to judge what's wrong, I'm telling you how I feel.

You justify you aren't prejudice by saying you wouldn't be afraid of Muhammad Ali or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, but if you only saw them from behind with a turban on, you'd be afraid of them.

On top of that, most Muslims don't even wear turbans. So, good chance, you'll be treating an Indian worse because he has a turban on.

What I'm arguing is that you guys are judging people 100% based on how they look. If you believe that is right, then we can't argue. There's nothing to argue about and this is pointless.

fansince'76
02-16-2009, 11:20 PM
What I'm arguing is that you guys are judging people 100% based on how they look. If you believe that is right, then we can't argue. There's nothing to argue about and this is pointless.

Well, that's life. It sucks, but people judge others and form a favorable or unfavorable first impression of others based largely on the way they look. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is the way it is.

HometownGal
02-16-2009, 11:21 PM
YES - I am prejudiced against Muslims and I will freely admit it. I personally knew 3 people who died in the September 11th attacks, one was a former business associate who was the kindest, sweetest woman God ever created.

Here's just one example of why I dislike them, don't trust them and wouldn't piss on them if they were dying in the desert:

KrM0dAFsZ8k

:mad::mad::mad:

Hapa
02-16-2009, 11:23 PM
Well, that's life. It sucks, but people judge others and form a favorable or unfavorable first impression of others based largely on the way they look. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is the way it is.

That's not what we were talking about before. You were saying that you judge people based on looks and I was saying that it's wrong to do that.

Of course, there are always going to be sexist, racist, and prejudice people. Does that make it right?

I gotta go to bed now but we can continue debating tomorrow. G'nite.

MACH1
02-16-2009, 11:26 PM
That's still prejudice. Apprehension or hate, it's still prejudice, treating someone different based on how they look. I'm no one to judge what's wrong, I'm telling you how I feel.

You justify you aren't prejudice by saying you wouldn't be afraid of Muhammad Ali or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, but if you only saw them from behind with a turban on, you'd be afraid of them.

On top of that, most Muslims don't even wear turbans. So, good chance, you'll be treating an Indian worse because he has a turban on.

What I'm arguing is that you guys are judging people 100% based on how they look. If you believe that is right, then we can't argue. There's nothing to argue about and this is pointless.

That's all fine and dandy. But we need to watch our ass's, after all it wasn't the U.S. that called for a jihad.

Hapa
02-16-2009, 11:28 PM
YES - I am prejudiced against Muslims and I will freely admit it. I personally knew 3 people who died in the September 11th attacks, one was a former business associate who was the kindest, sweetest woman God ever created.

Here's just one example of why I dislike them, don't trust them and wouldn't piss on them if they were dying in the desert:

KrM0dAFsZ8k

:mad::mad::mad:

You knowing people that died in 9/11 of course is traumatizing, but, as I said 4-5 times already, hating every Muslim in the world because of what some Muslims have done is preposterous. I knew 8 people that died in the attacks, I live right in the area. Is that really relevant though, that I personally knew them?

I can't believe that you learned nothing from history class, looking at all the prejudice in the past. Didn't you ever think "Oh my gosh, how could they think that way towards black people, or do those things? How could they hate all the Jews based on their religion?" How can you tell me you aren't doing the exact same thing.

fansince'76
02-16-2009, 11:30 PM
That's not what we were talking about before. You were saying that you judge people based on looks and I was saying that it's wrong to do that.

Of course, there are always going to be sexist, racist, and prejudice people. Does that make it right?

I gotta go to bed now but we can continue debating tomorrow. G'nite.

It's one in the same. Prejudging people based largely or wholly on appearance = prejudice. And everyone is prejudiced to some degree. It's human nature. Again, not saying it's wrong or right, it's just the way it is.

Hapa
02-16-2009, 11:30 PM
That's all fine and dandy. But we need to watch our ass's, after all it wasn't the U.S. that called for a jihad.

Yea of course we have to be wary of terrorists. But hating all Muslims because of them is crazy. How can we learn nothing from history.

Hapa
02-16-2009, 11:31 PM
Honestly, I didn't know such hate existed towards Muslims before today. I guess it's because in my town, there are a lot of Muslims, a lot of diversity, so we realize that you can't hate based on looks. I guess it's not your fault that you're prejudice.

I'm going to bed for real now guys. Cya tomorrow.

MACH1
02-16-2009, 11:41 PM
Yea of course we have to be wary of terrorists..

Isn't being wary the same as profiling, or prejudice, just by labeling them as possible threats? Can't have it both ways when it comes to looks and can't always walk around with blinders on.

HometownGal
02-16-2009, 11:42 PM
You knowing people that died in 9/11 of course is traumatizing, but, as I said 4-5 times already, hating every Muslim in the world because of what some Muslims have done is preposterous. I knew 8 people that died in the attacks, I live right in the area. Is that really relevant though, that I personally knew them?

I can't believe that you learned nothing from history class, looking at all the prejudice in the past. Didn't you ever think "Oh my gosh, how could they think that way towards black people, or do those things? How could they hate all the Jews based on their religion?" How can you tell me you aren't doing the exact same thing.

I learned plenty in history class, but one thing I've learned from my own life's experiences is that prejudice isn't only limited to blacks, Jews and Muslims. There is just as much prejudice (if not more) against white people in today's society as there was against blacks, etc. back in the 60's and 70's. I've been called a "honky", a "cracker" and "whitey" more times than I care to remember and I took the high road and walked away without a retaliatory comment. White men have been denied jobs and/or promotions since the early 90's and why? Simply because they are white. Let us white people dare have our own television network, our own beauty pageants or our own college fund and not allow anyone who isn't white entry - all hell would break loose and justifiably so. Of course none of this is written in history books, but if you really pay attention, prejudices against Caucasians in today's world is very widespread.

I'm sorry, Hapa, but you aren't going to change my opinion of Muslims (and I wouldn't even attempt to change yours) and when I meet my Maker one day, I can try to pitch my case to Him and ask for forgiveness. I don't like 'em, I don't trust 'em and I don't want to break rice cakes with 'em.

MasterOfPuppets
02-16-2009, 11:43 PM
KILL EM ALL !!!.......... oops this ain't the "what are you listening to now" thread...:laughing:

JEFF4i
02-17-2009, 12:17 AM
Now I'm wish you guys of being careful, its just we all set our own personal lines. I can understand apprehension, but to me, not "pissing on them if they are dying in the desert," is a bit far.

Stu Pidasso
02-17-2009, 12:20 AM
So if it's the worst kind of violence possible, then why is it only SECOND degree murder?

MasterOfPuppets
02-17-2009, 12:22 AM
So if it's the worst kind of violence possible, then why is it only SECOND degree murder?premeditaded murder is 1st degree. i guess so far they haven't established he planned on killing her.

SteelersMongol
02-17-2009, 05:03 AM
I'm with Hapa on this one, guys. Discrimination/racism/prejudice sucks. I was pissed at the Muslims when 9.11 happened (which shows how far was I from being mature) but who wasn't? Then when I was in Minnesota I took some religious class. Lesson I've learned, is they're just like us, they got some bad ones, as well as the nice ones. Q'uran is an art form that's been mutilated by some, so it can serve their personal interests.

I also worked & studied with some Muslims, & they were cool kids. We got along pretty well. Most of them were funny as hell. Some picked up some Western habit & would drink & smoke. Interesting thing is that some of those guys still carried their dislike towards my people because of what my ancestors did like 800 years ago, but what can I say. WTH, right? But they were the ones who don't know really what happened, or how it started & sh*t. I tried, but I couldn't change their mind. LOL.

BTW, I truly believe the f*ckers who hijacked the planes & crashed into the buildings were "Manchurian candidates", & the ones who celebrated on TV cameras, were the "jungle apes" who didn't know anything better.

& whatever some people did, you could never generalize & brand em all together. I mean, I hated what the Germans & Japs did during the WWII, I hated what the Turks did during the WWI to Armenians, but it doesn't mean I dislike the Germans, or Japs, or Turks now. Generalizing & discriminating bunch of people, just because some idiots did something is wrong. Even white people did to some awful things to Native Americans or blacks, but I like white-Americans. Come on, people. Sometimes you hear that some Steelers fans did this & that here & there, but just because of that we all know we don't want people to think that we're all the same, don't we? There is this sun & moon we see everyday, but there is more beyond that. Let's look at bigger picture.

Here is to the end of all the things we think are wrong. :drink:

P.S. It may have become little jumpy post, my apologies.

HometownGal
02-17-2009, 08:16 AM
Now I'm wish you guys of being careful, its just we all set our own personal lines. I can understand apprehension, but to me, not "pissing on them if they are dying in the desert," is a bit far.

Sorry, Jeff, that's just the way I feel and the only one I have to answer to for those feelings is my Maker on judgment day.

JEFF4i
02-17-2009, 08:45 AM
Sorry, Jeff, that's just the way I feel and the only one I have to answer to for those feelings is my Maker on judgment day.

And at least we can say we are darn proud that you and I can have this conversation. Many within the Middle East aren't so lucky, which is part of the problem.

Our military, police force, medical force, and teachers all need a terrible towel!

MasterOfPuppets
02-17-2009, 08:51 AM
And at least we can say we are darn proud that you and I can have this conversation. Many within the Middle East aren't so lucky, which is part of the problem.

Our military, police force, medical force, and teachers all need a terrible towel!yup...if they all had computers, they'd be home smokin hash and lookin at porn, instead of thinkin up ways to kill us infidels....:chuckle:

HometownGal
02-17-2009, 09:12 AM
And at least we can say we are darn proud that you and I can have this conversation. Many within the Middle East aren't so lucky, which is part of the problem.



True - we are blessed to have the freedoms we have in this great country. :drink: On the flip side of the coin, though, they don't need computers. The media keeps them well informed as to what we are doing and our politicians keep them apprised of what we are planning. :yap: :doh::banging:

Our military, police force, medical force, and teachers all need a terrible towel

AMEN to that! :tt02:

Dino 6 Rings
02-17-2009, 09:31 AM
Oh, certainly it is a culture of violence, and I suppose "trust" is rarely warranted, but to say that every single Muslim would see you float down the river rather than possibly go against his faith is naive. Honestly, I know some Muslims who are incredible people, and the past 8 years have been a challenge.

I really don't care for their "Challenges" Until they themselves Address the Violence that is taught in their Mosques, change their texts to stop allowing for the Killing of all Infidels, fix their religion from within, they are as guilty as the witch burning Christians/Puritans and the Spanish Inquisitors. They must fix themselves first.

But while their Head Clerics in Saudi Arabia are saying thing like "its ok for 10 year old girls to marry" http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/OK-for-10yearold-girls-to-marry-Saudi-grand-mufti/410727/
I see no hope for any who follow that religion. You have to truly understand why the Cleric would say such a thing. The reason, well is based in the fundlemental belief of Islam that Mohammed was Never Wrong. See Mohammed married and had sex with a 10 year old girl, therefore, if they outlaw the practice or talk against it, they are actually speaking against Mohammed's actions. And that is fundementally something the Clerics and Imams can ever allow.

Until they FIX their own religion, I will look at them all the same. The Pope doesn't come out and say "Marry Little Kids" or things like that, hence the Base of the religion is solid, if you're a Christian or Catholic, whereas the Base Foundation of Islam is seriously Flawed.

JEFF4i
02-17-2009, 03:41 PM
True - we are blessed to have the freedoms we have in this great country. :drink: On the flip side of the coin, though, they don't need computers. The media keeps them well informed as to what we are doing and our politicians keep them apprised of what we are planning. :yap: :doh::banging:





I actually meant we're lucky because we have freedom of thought, and speech (mostly), few Middle Eastern countries afford their citizens such freedoms.

HometownGal
02-17-2009, 04:20 PM
I actually meant we're lucky because we have freedom of thought, and speech (mostly), few Middle Eastern countries afford their citizens such freedoms.

I knew what you meant - see the first sentence of my last post. :wink02:

Unfortunately, however, some Middle Easterners don't have to speak with their voices - they speak with their actions, which is why I don't trust any of them. I know that comes across as terribly unfair, but that's just the way it is.

Godfather
02-17-2009, 04:43 PM
I knew what you meant - see the first sentence of my last post. :wink02:

Unfortunately, however, some Middle Easterners don't have to speak with their voices - they speak with their actions, which is why I don't trust any of them. I know that comes across as terribly unfair, but that's just the way it is.

I'm thinking you mean Middle Eastern Muslims--there are Christians in the Middle East, and non-Middle Eastern Muslims tend to be more liberal. Pakistan and Indonesia have had female heads of state, and the Muslim clerics in India banned the Mumbai perpetrators from being buried in Muslim cemeteries.

HometownGal
02-17-2009, 05:12 PM
I'm thinking you mean Middle Eastern Muslims--there are Christians in the Middle East, and non-Middle Eastern Muslims tend to be more liberal. Pakistan and Indonesia have had female heads of state, and the Muslim clerics in India banned the Mumbai perpetrators from being buried in Muslim cemeteries.

No, Godfather, I didn't mean just Middle Eastern Muslims, though I trust them even less. I will never forget that hoard of Pakistanis making the "V" sign and dancing in the streets on 911. :mad: Not only men, but women and kids too.

beSteelmyheart
02-17-2009, 07:21 PM
I don't trust religious lunatics, period.. One can't condemn Christianity for things that happened centuries ago but I can't necessarily defend it either based on current events or events in the near past. Christianity has it's share of loony tunes like Shirley Phelps for example, but ya know what? I don't see their "faithful" in the business of hijacking planes & turning them into weapons that kill thousands of "infidels", either. I don't see them as suicide bombers that kill women & children for God. I can walk away from a person like her, but how do you turn the other cheek & walk away from act of hate that comes from out of the blue sky when you are at work that day & only trying to do your job & support your family?
Does the Bible allow a husband to behead his wife? I don't know, I've never studied it in depth. Obviously the Koran does.
But in America, it is against the law, what part of that do Muslims not understand?
An interesting link for some further study on how "peaceful" the Muslim religion is.
http://prophetofdoom.net/

AllD
02-17-2009, 07:28 PM
(quote) Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light.(end quote)

well, that'll do it.


I heard he was chased in his white Ford Bronco....

Seriously, there is no rehabilitation or education of these people. They love the freedom of America and want to blow it up at the same time.

HometownGal
02-17-2009, 08:25 PM
I don't trust religious lunatics, period.. One can't condemn Christianity for things that happened centuries ago but I can't necessarily defend it either based on current events or events in the near past. Christianity has it's share of loony tunes like Shirley Phelps for example, but ya know what? I don't see their "faithful" in the business of hijacking planes & turning them into weapons that kill thousands of "infidels", either. I don't see them as suicide bombers that kill women & children for God. I can walk away from a person like her, but how do you turn the other cheek & walk away from act of hate that comes from out of the blue sky when you are at work that day & only trying to do your job & support your family?
Does the Bible allow a husband to behead his wife? I don't know, I've never studied it in depth. Obviously the Koran does.
But in America, it is against the law, what part of that do Muslims not understand?
An interesting link for some further study on how "peaceful" the Muslim religion is.
http://prophetofdoom.net/

Perfectly stated!

http://i.pbase.com/o4/97/388497/1/64021719.CHPTbjAb.applause.gif

Godfather
02-17-2009, 09:27 PM
No, Godfather, I didn't mean just Middle Eastern Muslims, though I trust them even less. I will never forget that hoard of Pakistanis making the "V" sign and dancing in the streets on 911. :mad: Not only men, but women and kids too.

Was that Pakistanis? I thought it was Palestinians but I could be wrong. Either way it's too bad we didn't have a Hellfire missile nearby since we had a group of clearly identified nuts.

In the case of Pakistan we have data to support the theory that most of them are reasonable. When Pakistan was a democracy the Islamofascist parties got skulldragged at the polls. (Which is why they went and got the biggest guns.)

We should follow the advice of the Gipper when dealing with the Middle East--trust but verify.

HometownGal
02-17-2009, 11:28 PM
Was that Pakistanis? I thought it was Palestinians but I could be wrong. Either way it's too bad we didn't have a Hellfire missile nearby since we had a group of clearly identified nuts.

In the case of Pakistan we have data to support the theory that most of them are reasonable. When Pakistan was a democracy the Islamofascist parties got skulldragged at the polls. (Which is why they went and got the biggest guns.)

We should follow the advice of the Gipper when dealing with the Middle East--trust but verify.

I'm sorry - typo on my part - it was the Palestinians who were celebrating the deaths of American citizens on 911.

While I appreciate (and respect) your opinion here, I am sticking to my guns. I don't trust any Middle-Easterner as far as I could throw them for the reasons aforementioned. When all is said and done - no matter how much this country, with the best of intentions, tries to aid "Pohk-is-tohn" in returning to a democracy - they will continue to hate America and plot behind our backs to harm us. I firmly believe that.

I'm sure the Gipper would have had a whole different attitude about "trusting and verifying" had he been at the helm on September 11th.

steelwall
02-18-2009, 12:50 AM
Muslims are as diverse in some veiws as Christians. I don't hate "all" of them. Even after fighting against them in Afgan. On the other hand my best friend here in China is a Muslim. (a Chinese Muslim from the Singjian province) He would never cut the head of his wife or anyone. Infact all the Singjian Muslims I have ever met have been very well manored and respectful plus it's obvious I'm Christian as I have multiple crosses tattooed on me. We have discussed religion openly, proof that the 2 can coexist, but the fanatics ruin it for everyone.

Back to this sick bastard. I agree that we should get midevil on people that do this kind of crap.

He was trying to portray Muslims in a positive light....FAILED

SteelersMongol
02-18-2009, 04:41 AM
I think the people who think "All the Muslims are the same" might fall into a same category in those Muslims who don't like any Christians at all no matter how the those Christians try.

MasterOfPuppets
02-18-2009, 04:46 AM
I think the people who think "All the Muslims are the same" might fall into a same category in those Muslims who don't like any Christians at all no matter how the those Christians try. that may be true mongol....but its not the christians killing the muslims, because of thier religion. not all muslims are terrorist, but all terrorist are muslims....i'm pretty sure a muslim has a much better chance of not being killed in a predominent christian country, then a christian would living in a muslim country.

stlrtruck
02-18-2009, 08:42 AM
What's sad about this entire thing is that somewhere there in a back office of the ACLU or ALCU (whatever the heck it is) some dim-witted lawyer is looking for a way to make this man a marytr and get him off the hook for religious purposes (or some other half-arsed freedom law).

And this man will do nothing and smile the entire time.

Steelcitygal87
02-18-2009, 08:56 AM
]What's sad about this entire thing is that somewhere there in a back office of the ACLU or ALCU (whatever the heck it is) some dim-witted lawyer is looking for a way to make this man a marytr and get him off the hook for religious purposes[/B] (or some other half-arsed freedom law).

And this man will do nothing and smile the entire time.

You got that right. They will be the next party heard from.

Are you familiar with the ACLJ? http://www.aclj.org/

Jay Sekulow has a radio show that I enjoy listening to every day on WORD FM 101.5 Pittsburgh.

Godfather
02-18-2009, 09:29 AM
I think the people who think "All the Muslims are the same" might fall into a same category in those Muslims who don't like any Christians at all no matter how the those Christians try.

I think it's even worse than that. People who lump them all into the same category are aiding the Islamofascists just as much as the cut and run liberals are.

Reasonable Muslims aren't going to speak out because it'll just get them killed. Maybe if the West had their backs they'd be more willing to stand up to the Islamofascists.

SteelCurtain7
02-18-2009, 05:16 PM
I think the people who think "All the Muslims are the same" might fall into a same category in those Muslims who don't like any Christians at all no matter how the those Christians try.

Well, as soon as we Christians have literal networks of suicide bombers trained to kill Muslim wives, mothers, and children on buses and in restaurants, then your allusion to moral equivalency may have legs. Until then, it don't.

Every time I see Christians "attacking" Muslims, it's in the arena of ideological warfare. In the area of debate. I do not see Christian leaders issuing a version of a fatwa (death sentence) against Muslims that do not agree (even oppose) Christianity. However, if a Muslim converts to Christianity, he is subject to the Muslims' fatwa. To any thinking person, such behavior is intolerant and oppressive.

I also don't see any "Christian" nations on earth, in the same sense there are nations ruled by the tenets of Islam. The entire Middle East (minus Israel) is a virtual Muslim theocracy, run by the teachings of Muhummad (shari'a). The non-Muslims that live in these countries, called dhimmis, must pay heavy taxes and be subjected to the humiliation that Muhummad believed should be the fate of all non-Muslims.

In short, I'm not really worried about what modern Islam thinks of Christianity. While we Christians have stains in our past (the Crusades and Inquisitions, as performed by the Roman Catholic Church), Christianity (to a much larger extent) has "evolved" beyond this Middle-Ages mindset. Islam, to a large degree, still remains trapped in this thinking from the past, still calling the West "Crusaders." :rolleyes:

Polamalu Princess
02-18-2009, 08:47 PM
You got that right. They will be the next party heard from.

Are you familiar with the ACLJ? http://www.aclj.org/

Jay Sekulow has a radio show that I enjoy listening to every day on WORD FM 101.5 Pittsburgh.

Amen to both of you and yes I enjoy Jay too.

beSteelmyheart
02-18-2009, 09:34 PM
Muslims are as diverse in some veiws as Christians. I don't hate "all" of them. Even after fighting against them in Afgan. On the other hand my best friend here in China is a Muslim. (a Chinese Muslim from the Singjian province) He would never cut the head of his wife or anyone. Infact all the Singjian Muslims I have ever met have been very well manored and respectful plus it's obvious I'm Christian as I have multiple crosses tattooed on me. We have discussed religion openly, proof that the 2 can coexist, but the fanatics ruin it for everyone.

Back to this sick bastard. I agree that we should get midevil on people that do this kind of crap. He was trying to portray Muslims in a positive light....FAILED
But to ask Christians to go back to medival times is asking them to go back to the time when Christianity is at it's worst, which would just serve to streengthen his argument.. I am in hopes that all spiritual people would seek to better themselves from that point. that would be like saying it's okay to burn someone at the stake because they are different. If that were the case, imagine-in modern time's thinking-how many people would be getting dragged off to die. This doesn't happen anymore because Christianity has evolved into such a positive force around the world, but look at Islam....This is still okay, this killing that is-in modern times-still allowed by one's faith. How enlightened is that? Not very.

7SteelGal43
02-18-2009, 09:35 PM
Amen to both of you and yes I enjoy Jay too.

ACLJ = constitution, freedom, morality, Bible, one nation under GOD

ACLU = :puke:

Polamalu Princess
02-18-2009, 09:41 PM
ACLJ = constitution, freedom, morality, Bible, one nation under GOD

ACLU = :puke:

:drink::chuckle:

SteelersMongol
02-18-2009, 11:33 PM
Well, as soon as we Christians have literal networks of suicide bombers trained to kill Muslim wives, mothers, and children on buses and in restaurants, then your allusion to moral equivalency may have legs. Until then, it don't.

Every time I see Christians "attacking" Muslims, it's in the arena of ideological warfare. In the area of debate. I do not see Christian leaders issuing a version of a fatwa (death sentence) against Muslims that do not agree (even oppose) Christianity. However, if a Muslim converts to Christianity, he is subject to the Muslims' fatwa. To any thinking person, such behavior is intolerant and oppressive.

I also don't see any "Christian" nations on earth, in the same sense there are nations ruled by the tenets of Islam. The entire Middle East (minus Israel) is a virtual Muslim theocracy, run by the teachings of Muhummad (shari'a). The non-Muslims that live in these countries, called dhimmis, must pay heavy taxes and be subjected to the humiliation that Muhummad believed should be the fate of all non-Muslims.

In short, I'm not really worried about what modern Islam thinks of Christianity. While we Christians have stains in our past (the Crusades and Inquisitions, as performed by the Roman Catholic Church), Christianity (to a much larger extent) has "evolved" beyond this Middle-Ages mindset. Islam, to a large degree, still remains trapped in this thinking from the past, still calling the West "Crusaders." :rolleyes:

You don't have to go that far. Similar to "all Muslims are the same" attitude helped the US government to lock up all Japanese-Americans from Hawaii & the West coast during the WWII. And you know very well that those very same people that were locked up actually made up an military regiment that was noted by its highest decoration & highest casualty. I would think it just sucks that they had to prove their loyalty to their country through all that.

What you're saying "Oh, that happened in the past. We're not the same anymore" actually gives you an edge of understanding things better, because your people went through it, & you know what it's like to be shortsighted.

Just to think all Muslims are the same is just wrong. When we think like this, it makes us as low as em. We're better than that.

P.S. When I said YOU, I'm not singling you out. Please understand this. Sorry. :hug:

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-19-2009, 02:42 AM
but all terrorist are muslims

Do you have any idea how wrong that is?

Its funny I live in Alabama (I thought we were to crazy bigots) and go to college with many Muslim students. Have never had a problem with any of them.

Everyone who is grouping all Muslims in the same category as those from 9/11 are either completely ignorant, or the most bigoted people I have ever heard of. That is like grouping me in the same category as the Aryan Nation because I am a Christian.

And to whoever said they don't trust anyone from the Middle East, one of my best friends is a Catholic from Lebanon who is joining the U.S. Army because he wants to defend us from terrorists and because he LOVES this country. Saying "I don't trust ANYONE from the Middle East" is worse than lumping all Muslims together. I guess you don't trust anyone from Israel then either?

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-19-2009, 02:48 AM
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

MasterOfPuppets
02-19-2009, 02:50 AM
Do you have any idea how wrong that is?

Its funny I live in Alabama (I thought we were to crazy bigots) and go to college with many Muslim students. Have never had a problem with any of them.

Everyone who is grouping all Muslims in the same category as those from 9/11 are either completely ignorant, or the most bigoted people I have ever heard of. That is like grouping me in the same category as the Aryan Nation because I am a Christian.

And to whoever said they don't trust anyone from the Middle East, one of my best friends is a Catholic from Lebanon who is joining the U.S. Army because he wants to defend us from terrorists and because he LOVES this country. Saying "I don't trust ANYONE from the Middle East" is worse than lumping all Muslims together. I guess you don't trust anyone from Israel then either?DO YOU ONLY READ HALF OF SENTENCES?

not all muslims are terrorist,but all terrorist are muslims.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-19-2009, 03:09 AM
DO YOU ONLY READ HALF OF SENTENCES?

Quote:
not all muslims are terrorist,but all terrorist are muslims.

Um, the first part of the sentence is correct, the second half isn't. That is why I only quoted the second half. Please enlighten me as to how EVERY terrorist is Muslim.

steelwall
02-19-2009, 03:24 AM
But to ask Christians to go back to medival times is asking them to go back to the time when Christianity is at it's worst, which would just serve to streengthen his argument.. I am in hopes that all spiritual people would seek to better themselves from that point. that would be like saying it's okay to burn someone at the stake because they are different. If that were the case, imagine-in modern time's thinking-how many people would be getting dragged off to die. This doesn't happen anymore because Christianity has evolved into such a positive force around the world, but look at Islam....This is still okay, this killing that is-in modern times-still allowed by one's faith. How enlightened is that? Not very.

Sorry just highlighting what stuck out to me. I'm not for burning people at the stake for being different. I'm totall against that as obvious from my own original post in this thread.

But this "guy" cut his wife's head off. In my eyes he should suffer the same fate.

Dino 6 Rings
02-19-2009, 12:43 PM
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

And I counter with:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-19-2009, 01:33 PM
And I counter with:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

I was merely pointing out that not all Muslims are radical terrorists, I didn't say radicals didn't exist. That is blatantly obvious.

HometownGal
02-19-2009, 02:27 PM
But this "guy" cut his wife's head off. In my eyes he should suffer the same fate.

Exactly. An eye for an eye and head for a head. Sad thing is - he feels he's some kind of hero for brutally murdering his wife. :shake02:

SteelCityMom
02-19-2009, 03:49 PM
Correct me if Im wrong but didnt Muslims hijack some planes and fly them into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon??? They are not tolerate of any religion but theres and we are supposed to ignore them doing crazy $hit like this??? Im not a racist. If someone is told by their crazy ass god to murder you then I think you should be a lil intolerate of them.

This is the same thinking that got thousands of Japanese-Americans put into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor...men, women and children. The actions of a few do not warrant the punishment of many. If this were true then all Christians would be to blame for the actions of Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Paul Schaffer and David Koresh. No, we're not supposed to ignore what some extremists have done, but to label and look at a whole group of people the same way based on their beliefs is wrong.

Fact of the matter is, no matter what religion, there are extremists who are willing to die, and take others down with them, for their beliefs. That can make any religious person scary.

SteelCityMom
02-19-2009, 04:13 PM
Exactly. An eye for an eye and head for a head. Sad thing is - he feels he's some kind of hero for brutally murdering his wife. :shake02:

I agree he should be punished, but not that he should suffer a fate as quick and easy as death. IMO rotting away in a cell for the rest of your life with no control over anything but your bowel movements is a far worse fate than a quick death. That's one of the reasons I'm opposed to the death penalty on a whole.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-19-2009, 04:44 PM
I agree he should be punished, but not that he should suffer a fate as quick and easy as death. IMO rotting away in a cell for the rest of your life with no control over anything but your bowel movements is a far worse fate than a quick death. That's one of the reasons I'm opposed to the death penalty on a whole.

Problem is we are are quickly running out of room on "death row" with the system dragging its feet the way it is. Imagine no death penalty and people just piling up in jail It would cost way too much money to keep these people alive. I say lethal injection and let God/Allah/Buddha/whoever sort them out.

To take a quote from the move Man on Fire:

*Denzel Washington's character kicks open the door of a upper level apartment to get a better view of his target from the balcony
Male Tennant:"You know, God preaches forgiveness?"
Denzel Washington "I'm here to arrange the meeting,,,"

SteelCityMom
02-19-2009, 04:50 PM
Problem is we are are quickly running out of room on "death row" with the system dragging its feet the way it is. Imagine no death penalty and people just piling up in jail It would cost way too much money to keep these people alive. I say lethal injection and let God/Allah/Buddha/whoever sort them out.

To take a quote from the move Man on Fire:

*Denzel Washington's character kicks open the door of a upper level apartment to get a better view of his target from the balcony
Male Tennant:"You know, God preaches forgiveness?"
Denzel Washington "I'm here to arrange the meeting,,,"

It actually costs more to give someone the death penalty than it does to keep them in jail for life.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

Part of the reason prisons are becoming overcrowded is because petty criminals and small time, non-violent drug dealers/users are being thrown into prison with rapists, murderers and other violent criminals.

Also, another reason I am against the death penalty is that the justice system is run by humans, and jurys are composed of humans, and humans are infallible. Many times the right person does get caught and sentenced to death, but there have been many cases in recent history (and probably more than any would like to admit to in past death penalty history) of wrongful conviction and wrongful death sentence punishment.

SteelCurtain7
02-19-2009, 07:34 PM
I'm with you, SCM. I used to be pro-DP myself...but have changed my tune in recent years. The last thing some of these folks need is instant martyrdom. Lifelong incarceration should hinder such aspirations.

KeiselPower99
02-19-2009, 07:50 PM
This is the same thinking that got thousands of Japanese-Americans put into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor...men, women and children. The actions of a few do not warrant the punishment of many. If this were true then all Christians would be to blame for the actions of Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Paul Schaffer and David Koresh. No, we're not supposed to ignore what some extremists have done, but to label and look at a whole group of people the same way based on their beliefs is wrong.

Fact of the matter is, no matter what religion, there are extremists who are willing to die, and take others down with them, for their beliefs. That can make any religious person scary.

When this country had balls and libs wasnt running it we would have done the same damn thing to the muslims after 9/11 that the Japenese did on Pearl Harbor. I even had a Japanese man tell me the same thing.

SteelCityMom
02-19-2009, 08:03 PM
When this country had balls and libs wasnt running it we would have done the same damn thing to the muslims after 9/11 that the Japenese did on Pearl Harbor. I even had a Japanese man tell me the same thing.

Wow ok. So that makes it ok? Thousands of people (children included) who did nothing wrong were imprisoned because the people in America were "scared" that they were all the same. There was another group of people who essentially did the same thing to a group of people...you know, the Nazis.

There is a reason why the American gov't is paying reparations to the Japanese-Americans who had to be sent to these camps, it's because it was wrong and inhumane.

You do realize as well that the president at the time this happened was a Democrat, FDR. The same person Obama idolizes. Besides, when 9/11 occurred, a good portion of the gov't was Republican, not liberal Democrat.

SteelersMongol
02-19-2009, 09:10 PM
Exactly. An eye for an eye and head for a head. Sad thing is - he feels he's some kind of hero for brutally murdering his wife. :shake02:

But I'm pretty sure not all Muslims think that way.

When this country had balls and libs wasnt running it we would have done the same damn thing to the muslims after 9/11 that the Japenese did on Pearl Harbor. I even had a Japanese man tell me the same thing.

Only if 9.11 had happened in 1945, instead of 2001.

KeiselPower99
02-19-2009, 09:13 PM
In drastic times call for drastic measures. I sorry all those Americans where sent to interment camps but that was a situation where we was facing an enemy of which we had never encountered before. Does it make it right?? No. FDR did what he had to do. And liberals come in all shapes and sizes and they can either be a donkey or an elephant.

SteelCityMom
02-19-2009, 09:30 PM
In drastic times call for drastic measures. I sorry all those Americans where sent to interment camps but that was a situation where we was facing an enemy of which we had never encountered before. Does it make it right?? No. FDR did what he had to do. And liberals come in all shapes and sizes and they can either be a donkey or an elephant.

Agreed that there are varying degrees of liberals, and some would consider themselves closer to Republican beliefs than Democratic ones (though this class of liberals would now be better defined as libertarians and not classic liberals). And then there are the social liberals, the ones in which most Americans identify with Democrats. The ones who have more socialist beliefs (i.e. welfare state and increased involvement in business and economic affairs, much like FDR and Obama).

I agree that America was facing a rather new enemy when attacked by Japan, but I would think that would be something of a history lesson for the American people and the government, that this was not the right way to go about dealing with a situation like this.

Polamalu Princess
02-19-2009, 10:21 PM
I feel that we are talking about so much more than a man that beheaded his wife - because it was his right as a male Muslim. That is all I am saying - it was his right by his religion. There IS something wrong with that - tenfold.

SteelCityMom
02-19-2009, 10:28 PM
I feel that we are talking about so much more than a man that beheaded his wife - because it was his right as a male Muslim. That is all I am saying - it was his right by his religion. There IS something wrong with that - tenfold.

Oh no doubt, I don't disagree with that at all. I just don't think all Muslims think that way. There are Christian men who have beaten and killed their wives as well, that's why there are womens shelters, to protect them from such men. Some men are just screwed up in that they think it's their right to "own" their women, and that goes for many different cultures and religions.

Polamalu Princess
02-19-2009, 11:04 PM
Oh no doubt, I don't disagree with that at all. I just don't think all Muslims think that way. There are Christian men who have beaten and killed their wives as well, that's why there are womens shelters, to protect them from such men. Some men are just screwed up in that they think it's their right to "own" their women, and that goes for many different cultures and religions.

Please show me where there is the truth. Yes, I was a women that needed protection at one time from a man, but it was not because of his religion. It was his anger with no excuse of his religion - THAT is the difference.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-19-2009, 11:09 PM
From what I have read these "honor killings" are not part of the Muslim religion at all, but a cultural thing. Unless I see many White/Black/etc. Muslims committing these atrocities, I can't say that religion is to blame.

SteelCityMom
02-19-2009, 11:42 PM
Please show me where there is the truth. Yes, I was a women that needed protection at one time from a man, but it was not because of his religion. It was his anger with no excuse of his religion - THAT is the difference.

That doesn't mean that it never happens, some men take the sacred marriage vow of till death do us part very literally.

I'm just saying you can't pin that kind of behavior on just Muslim men. Heck, some women are guilty of the same "if I can't have him, no one can" mentality and go off and kill their husbands.

And there are men who take the Bible literally, and there are many verses in the Bible which basically say it is ok to kill your wife if she commits adultery or divorces you (divorce is seen as a sin against God, and punishable by death).

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm#stone-the-woman

SteelShooter
02-20-2009, 01:44 AM
I can't believe you guys are so openly prejudice against Muslims. You may not (or you might, how the hell do I know) know that many Muslims personally, because they are just like anyone else.

It seems so ignorant, old-fashioned, and KKK-like to say, things like "Screw the muslims and all their BS", "I don't like or trust ANY Muslim", "The Muslim religion, as a whole scares me." (all of which are quotes from this thread)

I understand that for those of you that live in Pittsburgh, there is not as much diversity there as a lot of other places, but Muslims I know are no different than us. You talk about them like they're a different species than us.

It just seems so ignorant to put them all together into one category. We talk about not fixing mistakes from the past, but a lot of you seem as out rightly racist as white people were to blacks (and most other races) in the 19th century and before. Didn't it horrify you when you learned in school about the things that blacks, Native Americans, and other minorites went through? Every new race that comes into America has to go through it, it's ridiculous that some of us never learn.

But I'm 16... what the hell do I know better than you guys right?


Actually, at 16, you are absolutely correct....you do not know better.
Having been "over there" twice since this war began, and nine times total since the late 80's..........I have lost more friends and Brothers than you probably even have.

I am lucky. I have never been wounded....physically.

But just as my Uncle has a distrust of some people after returning from Vietnam, I have my own distrusts. It becomes a natural human reaction to be more cautious.

I listened to the radio chatter (bridge-to-bridge) immediately following 9-11 and had to endure the shouts of triumph and celebrations in various middle-eastern languages. I have touched the charred bodies of young people only a couple of years older than you who were victims of IEDs. I have worn uniforms that were stained in the blood of Heroes until new ones were issued. You were probably watching a movie that you had rented that night. My first Cousin, still a kid himself, picked up pieces of meat that were once Men of his own unit that were hit by mortar fire in 2003. That would make you what, 11 then? Did Sponge-Bob Square Pants have a good episode that night?

Now, to be completely fair; the man who saved my Sister's life (she is a breast cancer survivor) was a Muslim who has not returned to the Mosque since a week after 9-11. But my hair still stands on end when I was around him before and after the multiple surgeries. I was not at ease. My head turned quickly when I heard someone walk up behind me at the hospital. I cringed momentarily as I passed broken patches of pavement in the highway on the way to the hospital wondering if it were going to explode.

Does this make me a racist? I am a Christian and I wear my cross on my Dog Tags. If captured during my times over there it could have cost me the attachment of my cranium.

My apologies. I had no intention of rambling on. Good night.

stlrtruck
02-20-2009, 08:57 AM
Actually, at 16, you are absolutely correct....you do not know better.
Having been "over there" twice since this war began, and nine times total since the late 80's..........I have lost more friends and Brothers than you probably even have.

I am lucky. I have never been wounded....physically.

But just as my Uncle has a distrust of some people after returning from Vietnam, I have my own distrusts. It becomes a natural human reaction to be more cautious.

I listened to the radio chatter (bridge-to-bridge) immediately following 9-11 and had to endure the shouts of triumph and celebrations in various middle-eastern languages. I have touched the charred bodies of young people only a couple of years older than you who were victims of IEDs. I have worn uniforms that were stained in the blood of Heroes until new ones were issued. You were probably watching a movie that you had rented that night. My first Cousin, still a kid himself, picked up pieces of meat that were once Men of his own unit that were hit by mortar fire in 2003. That would make you what, 11 then? Did Sponge-Bob Square Pants have a good episode that night?

Now, to be completely fair; the man who saved my Sister's life (she is a breast cancer survivor) was a Muslim who has not returned to the Mosque since a week after 9-11. But my hair still stands on end when I was around him before and after the multiple surgeries. I was not at ease. My head turned quickly when I heard someone walk up behind me at the hospital. I cringed momentarily as I passed broken patches of pavement in the highway on the way to the hospital wondering if it were going to explode.

Does this make me a racist? I am a Christian and I wear my cross on my Dog Tags. If captured during my times over there it could have cost me the attachment of my cranium.

My apologies. I had no intention of rambling on. Good night.

I wouldn't call this a rambling but more of an eye opening monlogue. Many people today don't get to hear this type of stuff. All they hear is what the media wants them to hear. And believe me, as I'm sure you know, this kind of story isn't one of them.

I think it's good for the younger people to hear this. It's necessary for them to hear that the stories they get in the news are not what the truth is - especially in war and especially in that neck of the woods.

I do not know what it's like to hold fallen comrades and I thank God that I don't.

But I can understand that growing distrust for certain people. It was something I experienced in my brief time in Guam.

steelwall
02-20-2009, 10:36 PM
It actually costs more to give someone the death penalty than it does to keep them in jail for life.

.

I don't know :noidea: you could probably get someone to cut his head off at a reasonable rate.

JEFF4i
02-21-2009, 12:32 PM
I don't know :noidea: you could probably get someone to cut his head off at a reasonable rate.

Rusty knives at the flea market are cheap as dirt!

TeeJay
02-21-2009, 06:37 PM
I promised HTG I'll be good after using up a years supply of F words in my last post.........so I'll just add the shortcut below. Interesting reading. Seems not all is rosey in the Terrorist camp these days.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/4736358/Al-Qaeda-founder-launches-fierce-attack-on-Osama-bin-Laden.html

(Never trust a Country who put an A after a Q...........It's always a U!!!, even a six year old knows that!)

"The terrorist attacks on September 11 were both immoral and counterproductive" - No sh*t Sherlock....You reckon??? A conscience is a wonderful thing....it'll creep up on you and slap you around the face........especially when you're facing the rest of your worthless life in an Egyptian prison.

As Metallica so eloquently put it....Kill 'Em All

SteelShooter
03-21-2009, 02:16 AM
Thanks for posting the artical TeeJay......quite interesting.