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fansince'76
02-21-2009, 03:36 PM
Way to go, Al. :mad:

Execs taken aback by Asomugha, Lechler deals

By Jason Cole

Thu Feb 19, 2009

Indianapolis Reaction was swift and ugly Thursday to the deals the Oakland Raiders gave CB Nnamdi Asomugha and punter Shane Lechler over the past two days.

"How many different ways can you say, 'What were they thinking?'" a team executive who declined to be identified said after being told the terms of Asomugha's three-year, $45 million contract.

"Insanity, stupidity, whatever you want to attach to it. Yeah, the kid is the best cornerback in the league. They paid for quality. I'll give them that. But that deal wrecks the league. Absolutely wrecks it. I'm sure Al doesn't care, but it's deals like that that change the league for the worse."

Asomugha is guaranteed $28.5 million over the first two years of the deal and the Raiders will have to decide by the fifth day of the league year in 2011 whether to pick up the third season of the deal. If they do, the final year is guaranteed. If not, Asomugha can't be franchised (nor can the Raiders franchise him even if he plays out all three years on the contract), making him an unrestricted free agent at either age 29 or 30. Combined with the $9.7 million Asomugha made last season as a franchise player for Oakland, he stands to make approximately $55 million in a four-year stretch.

"And still hit free agency at the right time for one more big contract, assuming he's healthy," a second team executive said, shaking his head.

The fear among the executives is that the Asomugha deal will have a ripple effect on the rest of the league. Specifically, Tennessee DT Albert Haynesworth is likely to get a contract that exceeds previous deals for defensive linemen such as Jared Allen and Dwight Freeney.

"You can argue that Haynesworth is a defensive tackle or that he's a bad guy," said a third team executive. "But if a cornerback gets what the Raiders just paid, a defensive tackle like Haynesworth is going to get a serious pay day as well."

Similarly, Lechler's deal more than doubled the previous high average for a punter. His four-year, $16 million deal includes $9 million guaranteed, according to sources close to the negotiations. The $4 million average per season exceeds the previous high of $1.8 million.

Execs taken aback by Asomugha, Lechler deals (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/around_the_nfl/post/Execs-taken-aback-by-Asomugha-Lechler-deals?urn=nfl,142741)

Dynasty
02-21-2009, 03:42 PM
Al Davis is a joke.

KeiselPower99
02-21-2009, 03:53 PM
Hell they cut last years big signing Gibril Wilson. Thats 2 big additions from last year gone. Hall being the other one. The Raiders are a joke.

devilsdancefloor
02-21-2009, 03:54 PM
Agreed someone shoot davis and put not only the black hole out of its misery, but the rest of the league! The Asomugha deal is for certain a nail in the coffin for us to resign Bmac. Im just wondering if the crypt keeper isnt trying to @#$% up the league before he dies. :banging::banging::banging:

drizze99
02-21-2009, 04:00 PM
Al Davis is a complete idiotic joke. The game has passed him by....

fansince'76
02-21-2009, 04:04 PM
Al Davis is a complete idiotic joke. The game has passed him by....

He can continue to run his own team into the ground all he wishes, I don't care about that. But when he continues to make such a drastic and negative impact on the salary structure of NFL players as a whole with insane deals like these (besides giving Asomugha a king's ransom he also effectively doubled the going rate for quality punters), which affects OUR team as well (and we don't exactly have the wealthiest owners in the league to begin with), then it pisses me off.

lilyoder6
02-21-2009, 05:52 PM
Asomugha is good.. he is real good... but in no way in hell is any player good enough 2 have a 3 yr deal worth at least of 45 mill.. that could reach 50 mill.. that is just outragous...

and the fact u gave a punter, A PUNTER, a 4 yr 16 mill contract...

damn u al

MasterOfPuppets
02-21-2009, 06:07 PM
more proof that al davis should be ruled mentally incompetent, and the team and checkbook should be taken away .....the other 31 owners should have him assassinated....:thumbsup:

NEPAsteeler
02-21-2009, 06:14 PM
You mean Al Davis isn't dead yet? :chuckle: :wink02:

MasterOfPuppets
02-21-2009, 06:19 PM
You mean Al Davis isn't dead yet? :chuckle: :wink02:yeah he died about 7 yrs ago......he bribes the grim reaper ...:laughing:

NEPAsteeler
02-21-2009, 06:20 PM
yeah he died about 7 yrs ago......he bribes the grim reaper ...:laughing:

Lmao! I knew it!! :sofunny:

steelerdave1969
02-22-2009, 06:28 AM
The Raiders have been long ago the laughing stock of the front office world in my opinion. Al Davis hates the NFL and he is willing to make or do anything he can to screw it up in any way that he can. The Raiders made the super bowl a few years ago on the wings of the NFL just wanting that matchup with The Raiders and ex-Raider coach Jon Gruden.. no other reason.

Galax Steeler
02-22-2009, 08:19 AM
That is stupid giving someone a contract like that,But davis don't care what it does to the rest of the league.:banging:

silver & black
02-22-2009, 08:31 AM
The Raiders have been long ago the laughing stock of the front office world in my opinion. Al Davis hates the NFL and he is willing to make or do anything he can to screw it up in any way that he can. The Raiders made the super bowl a few years ago on the wings of the NFL just wanting that matchup with The Raiders and ex-Raider coach Jon Gruden.. no other reason.

:sofunny: :rofl: :toofunny:

silver & black
02-22-2009, 08:33 AM
:sofunny:................. :popcorn:

KeiselPower99
02-22-2009, 12:03 PM
yeah he died about 7 yrs ago......he bribes the grim reaper ...:laughing:

I can guarantee he aint bribing with Raider tickets.

tony hipchest
02-22-2009, 12:31 PM
1 step closer to a lock out after the uncapped year.

Edman
02-22-2009, 02:13 PM
I don't think there is anything said that hasn't already been said. Al Davis is a bum living on past glory.

steelreserve
02-22-2009, 02:36 PM
Why does this ruin things for the rest of the league? There's nothing that says anyone else has to act as stupid as Al Davis. If Bryant McFadden thinks he's worth $10 million a year now, tell him fine, go play for the sorry-ass Raiders, because that's the only team that'll pay you that much. They can only afford to do that for like, three or four guys anyway, which means they're already maxed out.

fansince'76
02-22-2009, 02:41 PM
Why does this ruin things for the rest of the league? There's nothing that says anyone else has to act as stupid as Al Davis. If Bryant McFadden thinks he's worth $10 million a year now, tell him fine, go play for the sorry-ass Raiders, because that's the only team that'll pay you that much. They can only afford to do that for like, three or four guys anyway, which means they're already maxed out.

See the deal the Vikes made for Hutchinson a couple of years ago and what that did to OL salaries across the league in general. You don't think the ridiculous deal Asomugha just got is going to have any effect at all on our FO's negotiations with Harrison for a new deal?

silver & black
02-22-2009, 03:07 PM
You are all blaming the wrong guy.

The League needs to take a good, hard look in the mirror.... then it can stare directly into the face of the problem.

The league and the greedy owners created this monster, not Al Davis.

What the hell do any of you care what what the Raiders or any other team pays a player? it isn't your money... and it damn sure isn't going to ruin the league... that's just ridiculous. What these players get paid doesn't even scratch the surface of what the owners and the media structure make. All this boo hooing over salaries is laughable.

Your owner could pay it too... he just doesn't... to his credit.

Daniel Snyder does the same thing, but it's only when Al Davis does it that the sky is falling. What a bunch of hypocritical bunk.

Edman
02-22-2009, 03:09 PM
Let's face the harsh reality here. NFL owners will continue to get dumber and players will get greedier...and in special cases, stupider. Before you know it players will be rewarded 50 million ollars for mediocrity and the upper tier talent will get paid in the billions.

It's disgusting. But I love the game of football and the Steelers too much to turn away. And that's the pity of it.


S&B, don't act like Dan Snyder is treated like he's innocent and everyone is out to get Al Davis. Snyder is just as guilty of overpaying and inflating salaries as well. But in this case, it wasn't Snyder who blew open that bank account on a CB, it was Al Davis by himself. THAT's why Al Davis is getting blasted.

fansince'76
02-22-2009, 04:22 PM
What these players get paid doesn't even scratch the surface of what the owners and the media structure make. All this boo hooing over salaries is laughable.

Riiiiiight. That's why the owners are opting out of the current CBA.

The NFL earns very substantial revenues. But the clubs are obligated by the CBA to spend substantially more than half their revenues – almost $4.5 billion this year alone -- on player costs.

Owners Opt Out of CBA (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80868b78&template=without-video&confirm=true)

You are all blaming the wrong guy.

The League needs to take a good, hard look in the mirror.... then it can stare directly into the face of the problem.

The league and the greedy owners created this monster, not Al Davis....

....Daniel Snyder does the same thing, but it's only when Al Davis does it that the sky is falling. What a bunch of hypocritical bunk.

We're not blaming the "wrong guy" here. Davis himself is a part of the problem. He's not the only part (see my previous post (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=569022#post569022) about the exploding salaries of O-linemen and the Vikes' hand in it), but this article wasn't about the Snyders, Joneses, et al. who do the exact same thing. It was about Davis, and that's why the bulk of the criticism in this thread is levied at him. If anything's hypocritical here it's your blaming the "greedy owners and the NFL" and basically giving Davis a pass.

steelreserve
02-22-2009, 04:56 PM
See the deal the Vikes made for Hutchinson a couple of years ago and what that did to OL salaries across the league in general. You don't think the ridiculous deal Asomugha just got is going to have any effect at all on our FO's negotiations with Harrison for a new deal?

Maybe some. But anyone can see it's simply not a sustainable practice to give out contracts like that. That goes for the owners, the players and even the greediest agent. There are only a handful of salary slots that big in the entire league that teams can actually pay someone. You just can't do it.

For some reason, paying linemen $10 million a season is the new fad, but that'll probably start to go away when the teams that do it can't afford to keep the star QB or RB they paid the guy to block for. Or when they don't have the money to get a star QB or RB in the first place, or they have a shitty defense because of what they paid their star lineman. As long as we don't fall into that trap, we'll be fine, though we've been coming dangerously close to it with Starks.

Here's a hint to Colbert: Don't. Do. It. Leave that to the Minnesotas and Miamis of the world.

tony hipchest
02-22-2009, 05:03 PM
the nnamdi deal will have average cb's expecting champ bailey type deals.

in turn, champ will demand a nnamdi type deal. the owners will be hamstrung by the agents.

look at the effect raiders pissing money away on d. hall and j. walker had on the jags signing porter and their scrub of a cb.

all this carelessness artificially inflates the market, and when the owners try to get it back in line with the next CBA the PA is gonna fight them hard.

if porter, randle el, and walker are setting the market value for wr's how is a role player like nate washington supposed to expect anything less?

a lockout almost seems inevitible. it is us fans who will suffer.

Big D
02-22-2009, 05:38 PM
You are all blaming the wrong guy.

The League needs to take a good, hard look in the mirror.... then it can stare directly into the face of the problem.

The league and the greedy owners created this monster, not Al Davis.

What the hell do any of you care what what the Raiders or any other team pays a player? it isn't your money... and it damn sure isn't going to ruin the league... that's just ridiculous. What these players get paid doesn't even scratch the surface of what the owners and the media structure make. All this boo hooing over salaries is laughable.

Your owner could pay it too... he just doesn't... to his credit.

Daniel Snyder does the same thing, but it's only when Al Davis does it that the sky is falling. What a bunch of hypocritical bunk.
Here's the truth in the matter. Lechler and nnamdi got these huge contracts as pretty much of a bribe to stay in oakland. The only way they can retain players or sign free agents is by blowing the bank at them. I dont know on a fiscal side of things this team can afford it. The raiders will continue to be a joke until the old man kicks the bucket

MasterOfPuppets
02-22-2009, 06:38 PM
Similarly, Lechler's deal more than doubled the previous high average for a punter. His four-year, $16 million deal includes $9 million guaranteed, according to sources close to the negotiations. The $4 million average per season exceeds the previous high of $1.8 million. the moronic deal with the punter ALONE will be enough to blow up the salaries at EVERY position. there's a ton of quality players, at way more important positions that don't average money like that !!!! if i was a field goal kicker, i'd definetly want more money than a punter.

lilyoder6
02-22-2009, 06:50 PM
if players thaare avg are getting paid star money.. then when a star does come out.. maybe ABSURD!!!!

silver & black
02-22-2009, 08:41 PM
Riiiiiight. That's why the owners are opting out of the current CBA.



Owners Opt Out of CBA (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80868b78&template=without-video&confirm=true)



We're not blaming the "wrong guy" here. Davis himself is a part of the problem. He's not the only part (see my previous post (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=569022#post569022) about the exploding salaries of O-linemen and the Vikes' hand in it), but this article wasn't about the Snyders, Joneses, et al. who do the exact same thing. It was about Davis, and that's why the bulk of the criticism in this thread is levied at him. If anything's hypocritical here it's your blaming the "greedy owners and the NFL" and basically giving Davis a pass.

When have you ever known me to give Davis a pass on anything? I just think it's hypocritical as hell to rant about Al Davis, when the there others that do exactly the same thing. It's only because it's Al Davis and the Raiders that there is this outcry about it. Give me a break!

silver & black
02-22-2009, 08:47 PM
Here's the truth in the matter. Lechler and nnamdi got these huge contracts as pretty much of a bribe to stay in oakland. The only way they can retain players or sign free agents is by blowing the bank at them. I dont know on a fiscal side of things this team can afford it. The raiders will continue to be a joke until the old man kicks the bucket

I don't disagree with you. We all know the only way the Raiders get decent players to come to Oakland is to overpay... you gotta do what you gotta do. All I'm saying is, there are other owners who have set precedent for this, before Al Davis did. I find it very hypocritical to blame Davis for what's happening without mentioning what others have done before.

silver & black
02-22-2009, 08:50 PM
You can all rail against Al all you want... Lord knows I have, but, the real problem lies at the feet of the league. Untill the league stops the madness... all's fair... deal with it.

MasterOfPuppets
02-22-2009, 10:57 PM
i honestly don't see how they can pull off these signings..i think .they only had $4 - 8 MILL in cap room.... even with the purge of players, they gotta be eating 15 mill + in dead money alone.....:noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
02-22-2009, 11:15 PM
Cap Hell for the Raiders next year.
I guess Al's going to have to sell more shares of the team.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2...gainst-09-cap/

The Raiders are not only out $20 million in actual dollars for the 16 games played by DeAngelo Hall and Javon Walker, but will also see both players take up a good chunk of salary cap space in 2009.

With Hall having been waived, the Raiders will have $5.833,334 in “dead money” under the 2009 cap, according to league figures.

Walker, who underwent surgery Friday to have two screws interseted in his ankle, might end up sticking around for at least another year simply to avoid the bonus acceleration that would come with his release.

According to the wording of his contract, “Club agrees that it will pay Player the Roster Bonus despite the fact that, Player, due to an injury suffered while practicing or playing with Club in the immediate prior contract year.”

That essentially guarantees the Raiders will have to pay a $5 million bonus, unless they want to argue that Walker has completely recovered from surgery and is healthy. That road could be perilous. Players for the most part don’t care if Al Davis occasionally battles with coaches over money.

But after the Hall contract dump, if the Raiders were to attempt to skirt an injury guarantee, Davis’ reputation as a player’s owner would take a huge hit.

There is already some grumbling among agents that they will attempt to convince their clients not to go to Oakland. The same grumbling existed last year, and it didn’t matter because the Raiders were throwing money around and both players and agents were only to glad to take it in the form of bonuses and commissions.

The landscape could change if the perception of dysfunction carries over to the matter of actual dollars in the pockets of the players.

Assuming the Raiders pay the $5 millon bonus and make good on the injury guarantee, Walker’s salary cap figure will be $10,833,333, including $4 million in salary.

Should Oakland pay the guarantee as stipulated and then cut Walker, the 2009 cap charge $14,166,667 to terminate the relationship. Combined with the Hall dead money, that’s $20 million in dead money.

The Raiders could also attempt to get Walker to take less money, as done in the past with players such as LaMont Jordan who didn’t play up to their contract standards. Walker would be under no obligation to do so and would be made aware by his agent of the bind the Raiders would be in should he be waived.

The 2009 cap has not been set, but was $116 million in 2008 and has risen $7 million in each of the last two years.:noidea:

Wilson was due a $2.5 million salary and had a pending roster bonus of $4.5 million. With a salary cap figure of $8.4 million and $7 million in pro-rated bonus money from his original signing bonus of $8.4 million, it the release cleared $1.4 million in cap space but will mean $7 million in dead money under the cap.http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2009/02/20/wilson-latest-to-go-from-07-spending-spree/

lilyoder6
02-22-2009, 11:27 PM
all of that dead money is unheard of...

Edman
02-22-2009, 11:52 PM
all of that dead money is unheard of...

When it comes to Al Davis and how he wheels and deals, nothing is unheard of.

steelreserve
02-23-2009, 12:41 PM
all of that dead money is unheard of...

If I remember right, the 49ers consistently had $20-$30 million in dead money during their collapse in the early 2000s. And that was when the salary cap was only $80 or $90 million. They were still paying guys like Rickey Jackson who retired 5 or 6 years before -- but part of that was because they'd done things like sign them to ridiculous backloaded 10-year contracts right before the cap went into effect.

But ... well, you see what all that dead money did for them.

revefsreleets
02-23-2009, 12:54 PM
If there is a way for the NFL to force Davis out, this will be the deal that triggers it.

That effing madmen just effed the whole league.

stlrtruck
02-23-2009, 01:02 PM
You can all rail against Al all you want... Lord knows I have, but, the real problem lies at the feet of the league. Untill the league stops the madness... all's fair... deal with it.

It's all fair but at what point as an owner do you stop doing stupid things just to spite yourself?

Yes, the league needs to do something about it but the players union won't agree to it again - they've stated as much. So now where does the problem lay? At the feet of the owners. There are three real problem owners in the NFL for the lucrative deals they throw around:

Jones - Snyder - Davis

Eventually, more like hopefully, the system will correct itself and players contracts will fall back down to at least the middle atmosphere.

steelreserve
02-23-2009, 01:30 PM
Eventually, more like hopefully, the system will correct itself and players contracts will fall back down to at least the middle atmosphere.

It's constantly doing that. There are a few big deals every year that everyone knows the team overpaid for, which is roughly what you would expect in a league with 32 franchises -- and the rest of the players get more reasonable money.

The Raiders, Redskins and Cowboys are notorious for giving out absolutely mind-numbingly stupid deals, but I really don't think other teams are looking at that and telling themselves, "Hey, look at what the Raiders are doing. They're such a model of success that we'd better try to emulate them." Outside of them, individual teams make individual stupid judgments about what players are worth all the time, but I think it's pretty safe to assume if it involves the Raiders, Redskins or Cowboys, most people have just learned to ignore it.

tony hipchest
02-23-2009, 02:25 PM
from peter king-

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/02/22/mmqb/2.html

The most interesting thing I learned at the combine actually had nothing to do with the combine at all. It had to do with the contract the Raiders negotiated with agents Tom Condon and Ben Dogra for Nnamdi Asomugha. Put simply, this is the kind of revolutionary contract that will reverberate around the league for this entire off-season. Maybe longer.

Taken on an average-per-season basis, Asomugha's contract is 62 percent higher than any cornerback contract in NFL history.

This is what one general manager with several important players to sign told me about the deal: "I've already told two agents that if they include that contract in all the contracts in our negotiations, I'm not listening. It's insane. It's beyond insane. I've never seen a contract like it. The Raiders guaranteed a cornerback more money than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning ever got guaranteed. So I'm not going to listen to any agent who tries to use it as leverage. It makes no sense.''

The richest previous contract signed by a cornerback (and I don't count the eight-year, $80-million Nate Clements deal with San Francisco, because it has two phony years at a total of $27.3 million stuck on the end of it, years both sides know will never be played out) came last year -- Asante Samuel's six-year, $56.14 million deal with the Eagles. Let's compare the Samuel and Asomugha deals:

Asomugha's average pay per year is $5.77-million per year more than Samuel's, or 62 percent more than any cornerback contract ever. Good for him. And good for the Raiders in one way -- they don't lose their best player, and because they don't force a franchise tag on him, they don't have their best player grousing about what a bad team he's on ... at least for now. But in this economy? With the Raiders always lobbying for a more revenue-producing stadium?

* One bit of clarification on the Asomugha contract: The deal is for at least two years and $28.6 million. Then the Raiders have a choice. They have until the fifth day of the league year (approximately March 5, 2011) to decide whether to keep Asomugha or allow him to become an unrestricted free agent. If they keep him, which is highly likely in what could very well be an uncapped year, they will have to pay him a minimum of $16.874 million.

fansince'76
02-23-2009, 02:40 PM
This is what one general manager with several important players to sign told me about the deal: "I've already told two agents that if they include that contract in all the contracts in our negotiations, I'm not listening. It's insane. It's beyond insane. I've never seen a contract like it. The Raiders guaranteed a cornerback more money than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning ever got guaranteed. So I'm not going to listen to any agent who tries to use it as leverage. It makes no sense.''

No problem - the agent will simply move along to another GM who IS stupid enough to listen, and there WILL be one. At least one. Of course, in Al Davis' case, and considering the hard-on he's always had for DBs in particular anyway, I doubt there was really much "negotiation" involved. More like he had a blank check already signed for Asomugha's agents and they filled in the amount.

Big D
02-23-2009, 04:22 PM
I don't disagree with you. We all know the only way the Raiders get decent players to come to Oakland is to overpay... you gotta do what you gotta do. All I'm saying is, there are other owners who have set precedent for this, before Al Davis did. I find it very hypocritical to blame Davis for what's happening without mentioning what others have done before.

and what does it say to free agents when they sign these major contracts and get cut 6 weeks or a year later.It's going to hurt the ability to sign free agents

silver & black
02-23-2009, 04:46 PM
and what does it say to free agents when they sign these major contracts and get cut 6 weeks or a year later.It's going to hurt the ability to sign free agents

Again, I agree. I don't have the answers. I can't do a damn thing about what Al, Jerry, and Daniel do. Al has never been one to lowball players... just coaches. I really wish the Raiders operated like the Steelers, but they don't, so, all I can do as a fan, is live with it. I'm not worried about the league being ruined, or surviving, or any of that nonsense. I'm sure they will figure out what to do about this. In the mean time... I just don't care who gets paid what.

I just find it comical to complain about what a proven veteran FA gets paid, when these rookies come into the league making multi millions of $$$ more than 95% of all the vets in the league, that have proven they can play at this level. That should be the league's #1 priority... to put an end to the absolutely ludicrous rookie salaries. Maybe the FA thing would straighten itself out if that were to happen.

Big D
02-23-2009, 05:14 PM
I just find it comical to complain about what a proven veteran FA gets paid, when these rookies come into the league making multi millions of $$$ more than 95% of all the vets in the league, that have proven they can play at this level. That should be the league's #1 priority... to put an end to the absolutely ludicrous rookie salaries. Maybe the FA thing would straighten itself out if that were to happen.

I couldn't agree with you more on this. I think one of the things the nba does do right is have there rookie pay scales. I think the nfl should do the same. I don't think any rookie is worth 35 million right out of school

lilyoder6
02-23-2009, 06:13 PM
we are going to have 2 wait and see what these players are demanding after getting cut.. like a wilson, hall and who not

Michael Keller
02-23-2009, 06:27 PM
Al Davis is the worst of the bad. That man should be locked up. I don"t think he is every going to die. That give you a clue as to who or what he might be.

fansince'76
02-23-2009, 07:12 PM
It's to the point where if I came in as a new GM, I'd almost rather have the #10 pick or so instead of the #1 overall. It's no wonder the Lions can't dig out of their hole.

Well, having an absolute idiot for a GM for the better part of the last decade didn't help them either.

silver & black
02-23-2009, 07:14 PM
Al Davis is the worst of the bad. That man should be locked up. I don"t think he is every going to die. That give you a clue as to who or what he might be.

Enlighten me. What, exactly, do you know about Al Davis?

I'm a Raiders fan for 42 years. I know a thing or two about Al Davis... one of which is, people love to bump their gums about something they know nothing about. So, how about you tell me what you know about Al Davis?

This should be good. :popcorn:

AllD
02-23-2009, 07:27 PM
Again, I agree. I don't have the answers. I can't do a damn thing about what Al, Jerry, and Daniel do. Al has never been one to lowball players... just coaches. I really wish the Raiders operated like the Steelers, but they don't, so, all I can do as a fan, is live with it. I'm not worried about the league being ruined, or surviving, or any of that nonsense. I'm sure they will figure out what to do about this. In the mean time... I just don't care who gets paid what.

I just find it comical to complain about what a proven veteran FA gets paid, when these rookies come into the league making multi millions of $$$ more than 95% of all the vets in the league, that have proven they can play at this level. That should be the league's #1 priority... to put an end to the absolutely ludicrous rookie salaries. Maybe the FA thing would straighten itself out if that were to happen.


If you are smart you can manage it:

1. Play well enough to where you are normally in the lower half of the draft order to where you are not expected to pay inflated contracts.

2. Draft well in lower rounds and develop your players.

3. Make the second contract the largest contract and keep the payroll from going upside down by keeping your players and developing them in a rational manner.

Sounds like how the Steelers run the business to me, except for Starks.

silver & black
02-23-2009, 07:36 PM
If you are smart you can manage it:

1. Play well enough to where you are normally in the lower half of the draft order to where you are not expected to pay inflated contracts.
2. Draft well in lower rounds and develop your players.
3. Make the second contract the largest contract and keep the payroll from going upside down by keeping your players and developing them in a rational manner.

Sounds like how the Steelers run the business to me, except for Starks.

This pretty much leaves the Raiders out in the cold.

revefsreleets
02-24-2009, 10:32 AM
The Germans defended Hitler, too...

Yikes, S&B.

silver & black
02-24-2009, 06:07 PM
Even some of the biggest Raider fans I know here are resigned to the fact that the team is not going to do anything but stay in a tailspin until Al Davis dies, or at least has a stroke and becomes incapable of being involved in team affairs. That's what a lot of them are waiting for -- "Is this the year the incompetent owner is finally going to die?" Puts our team's problems in perspective.

No kidding. It's pretty sad when that is unfortunately the case. We all know the Raiders are going to continue like this untill Al Davis passes on, or relinquishes control... the latter is never going to happen.

There is NO WAY that I will, or do, wish for his death. I find the calls for his death, and the complete lack of respect for an NFL, and sports icon, that has in the past contributed GREATLY to the sport we all love, to be completely abhorrent.

Yes, Al Davis has seen better days... there is no denying that. At the same time, he is not the antichrist that everyone makes him out to be... he is an old man that is failing in health, and trying desperately to grasp the brass ring one more time. No, he isn't doing a good job of it.

As a long time Raiders fan, it saddens me to witness what has happened to my team and Al Davis. It's too bad that one of the most storied, and elite franchises in the NFL has come to such an undignified end. And make no mistake... this is the end of the Raiders as they were. The team that wears the Silver and Black right now, is not even a glimmer of what they once were.

Raiders fans aren't stupid, contrary to popular belief. We know what is happening all to well. It's embarrassing, disheartening, and sad to have to watch it unfold... especially for the fans like myself, that have been here since the 60's. I hope no other fan base ever has to go through this... it will truly test your metal. I will remain a Raiders fan for as long as the Raiders exist, or my time is up.

I know there are other teams out there that suck, but, for the most part, they always have. Those fans have no idea how hard it is to go from expecting to be in the playoffs EVERY year, to being the joke of the entire league. You Steelers fans are fortunate to have a great owner that runs a great franchise. This may not always be the case... never say never... just ask a Raiders fan.

In closing this "longer than I meant it to be post" I will say this: It's easy to be a fan of a winning team and make fun of other teams' owners and fans... it's a lot harder to be a fan of a team that sucks. I know... I used to be you. If the Raiders ever return to prominence, I will remember this lesson, and I will NEVER be derogative to other fans that find themselve's in the same situation.

revefsreleets
02-24-2009, 07:01 PM
That was a nice post, S&B. It's got to suck watching the Titanic sink out from under you. BUT instead of playing another number on the poop deck for Ole Al's sake, call an ace and ace and a spade a spade: Al has GOT TO GO! Just say it...he's achieved "Sacred Cow" status now, and you are the only Hindu practicing on the board. It's time to put the old bovine out to pasture and see if some new ownership can turn that franchise around.

Think about it this way...if he KEEPS making incredibly moronic deals like these, it'll take YEARS before they can even be competitive again, let alone win.

Big D
02-24-2009, 07:15 PM
No kidding. It's pretty sad when that is unfortunately the case. We all know the Raiders are going to continue like this untill Al Davis passes on, or relinquishes control... the latter is never going to happen.

There is NO WAY that I will, or do, wish for his death. I find the calls for his death, and the complete lack of respect for an NFL, and sports icon, that has in the past contributed GREATLY to the sport we all love, to be completely abhorrent.

Yes, Al Davis has seen better days... there is no denying that. At the same time, he is not the antichrist that everyone makes him out to be... he is an old man that is failing in health, and trying desperately to grasp the brass ring one more time. No, he isn't doing a good job of it.

As a long time Raiders fan, it saddens me to witness what has happened to my team and Al Davis. It's too bad that one of the most storied, and elite franchises in the NFL has come to such an undignified end. And make no mistake... this is the end of the Raiders as they were. The team that wears the Silver and Black right now, is not even a glimmer of what they once were.

Raiders fans aren't stupid, contrary to popular belief. We know what is happening all to well. It's embarrassing, disheartening, and sad to have to watch it unfold... especially for the fans like myself, that have been here since the 60's. I hope no other fan base ever has to go through this... it will truly test your metal. I will remain a Raiders fan for as long as the Raiders exist, or my time is up.

I know there are other teams out there that suck, but, for the most part, they always have. Those fans have no idea how hard it is to go from expecting to be in the playoffs EVERY year, to being the joke of the entire league. You Steelers fans are fortunate to have a great owner that runs a great franchise. This may not always be the case... never say never... just ask a Raiders fan.

In closing this "longer than I meant it to be post" I will say this: It's easy to be a fan of a winning team and make fun of other teams' owners and fans... it's a lot harder to be a fan of a team that sucks. I know... I used to be you. If the Raiders ever return to prominence, I will remember this lesson, and I will NEVER be derogative to other fans that find themselve's in the same situation.

I"m curious about something, My best friend is the biggest raider homer i've ever seen. He really believes that Russell will be great. My question is how. I think he doesn't stand a chance. In order to be great you need coaching right? Ted tollner has coached two of the biggest bust this decade with Harrington and Alex smith.Not only that doesn't it hurt when his best target is zack miller?

silver & black
02-24-2009, 07:34 PM
That was a nice post, S&B. It's got to suck watching the Titanic sink out from under you. BUT instead of playing another number on the poop deck for Ole Al's sake, call an ace and ace and a spade a spade: Al has GOT TO GO! Just say it...he's achieved "Sacred Cow" status now, and you are the only Hindu practicing on the board. It's time to put the old bovine out to pasture and see if some new ownership can turn that franchise around.

Think about it this way...if he KEEPS making incredibly moronic deals like these, it'll take YEARS before they can even be competitive again, let alone win.

What don't you get? Al Davis will NEVER relinquish control. Do you think that you or anyone else harping about Davis needing to go is going to make it so? Do you think that Raiders fans don't know that he needs to go? Here, I'll say it... AL DAVIS NEEDS TO GO! Are you happy now? I've acknowledged that for for the umpteenth time now.

I'm sure some new ownership CAN turn the franchise around. How do you suggest we go about it?... or are you just going to blabber Al Davis needs to go... again?

silver & black
02-24-2009, 07:42 PM
I"m curious about something, My best friend is the biggest raider homer i've ever seen. He really believes that Russell will be great. My question is how. I think he doesn't stand a chance. In order to be great you need coaching right? Ted tollner has coached two of the biggest bust this decade with Harrington and Alex smith.Not only that doesn't it hurt when his best target is zack miller?

There ya go. You know what most Raiders fans know. I seriously doubt that Russell is going to be anything close to great. I never wanted him... just another stupid pick, based on ONE game. I wanted to trade down that year, but I knewt there was no way Al would pass up that huge arm... even it can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Coaching and terrible drafts have killed this team, and will continue to do so untill Al is no longer in control... or by some miracle, he has an epiphany and realizes he needs a GM. RIGHT! :rofl:

tony hipchest
02-24-2009, 07:43 PM
new ownership did wonders for the 49ers. :chuckle:

:idea: hey, we'll trade you one of the rooney brothers for michael bush.

Big D
02-24-2009, 07:49 PM
There ya go. You know what most Raiders fans know. I seriously doubt that Russell is going to be anything close to great. I never wanted him... just another stupid pick, based on ONE game. I wanted to trade down that year, but I knewt there was no way Al would pass up that huge arm... even it can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Coaching and terrible drafts have killed this team, and will continue to do so untill Al is no longer in control... or by some miracle, he has an epiphany and realizes he needs a GM. RIGHT! :rofl:

I tell my buddy this, If quinn would have been lights out in that bowl game and russell would have sucked you would have quinn right now. I personaly agree that I think they should have traded the pick down or took Calvin Johnson. The other day I was looking at underclass qb's that have come out the past ten or so years and ben is the only one who has really had success in the pros. I think to be a great qb a team has to have stability or great coaching. In my opinion the raiders dont have neither one,now they have invested at least 30 million in guarantees with russell. A huge investment. I think the nfl is better when the steelers,cowboys,packers,raiders ,dolphins and niners are all great. As much fun as the raiders are to dog on it's a better league when they are great

Big D
02-24-2009, 07:51 PM
new ownership did wonders for the 49ers. :chuckle:

:idea: hey, we'll trade you one of the rooney brothers for michael bush.

I hope you are talking about one of the rooneys who were dumb enough to want to sell the team

revefsreleets
02-24-2009, 07:57 PM
Yup, Al needs to go.

That's all I needed to hear...

St33lersguy
02-24-2009, 09:26 PM
Al Davis is a senile dumbf***. Of course this is the same crybaby idiot that believed the Steelers were playing on a better field in the 1975 AFC championship game. as long as that moron that looks like a skeleton is owning the raiders the raiders will be in a black hole for years to come.

silver & black
02-25-2009, 05:49 AM
Al Davis is a senile dumbf***. Of course this is the same crybaby idiot that believed the Steelers were playing on a better field in the 1975 AFC championship game. as long as that moron that looks like a skeleton is owning the raiders the raiders will be in a black hole for years to come.

Excellent commentary... keep em' coming.:coffee:

steelreserve
02-25-2009, 01:30 PM
new ownership did wonders for the 49ers. :chuckle

Yeah, that's what happens when you go from an owner who understands the game and loves the players, to an owner who wins control of the team in a legal fight and barely even likes football.

Honestly, the best thing that's happened to the 49ers lately is that the owners have apparently finally realized that they're incompetent, and have started distancing themselves from the spotlight and leaving the job of actually running the franchise to people more knowledgeable than themselves who actually give a shit. It's just a shame it took them a full decade to figure out they were so bad at this.

To s&b: I don't know whether it's true that going through a lot of losing makes you more humble about making fun of other teams ... from a 49ers fan's perspective, I still feel like it's a good outlet for frustration if you can rail against the few other teams bad enough to be in the same boat. Of course, you're a lot more limited in who you can make fun of, but unless you're a Lions fan, there's always someone worse off.