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Stlrs4Life
02-22-2009, 09:15 AM
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/feb/17/stroke-pen-keeping-his-promises/


With the stroke of a pen, keeping his promises

By Bill Adair (http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/staff/bill-adair/)
Published on Tuesday, February 17th, 2009 at 6:00 p.m.

Bookmark this story:

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The stimulus bill signed by President Obama on Tuesday will not only pump hundreds of billions of dollars into the economy, it will fulfill a surprising number of the new president’s campaign promises.
Of the 510 promises being tracked by PolitiFact, the stimulus bill will fulfill or advance about 50 of them, a remarkable number for a president who has been in office only four weeks.
The accomplishment reflects the extraordinary scope of the bill, which covers everything from tax credits for workers to weatherizing homes. It includes billions of dollars for a Republican-backed fix for the Alternative Minimum Tax, and millions more for border security, a better electrical grid and even hybrid cars for the federal fleet.
Much of the congressional debate about the bill focused on individual spending proposals and whether they were pork barrel projects that critics considered wasteful. But that debate obscured how much the bill advances Obama’s agenda. Just a month into his presidency, Obama has used the economic stimulus to pass major elements of his domestic agenda on energy, tax policy and education.
The economic crisis has presented Obama with a daunting challenge, but because virtually any spending can be considered “stimulative,” it’s also given him a unique opportunity to quickly push through a large swath of his campaign priorities. Not many new presidents have the political capital to propose spending nearly $1 trillion within weeks of taking office. Under normal circumstances, it would’ve taken considerably longer and been much more difficult to get so much through Congress. Obama, aided by a solid Democratic majority in both houses, did it in a month.
In some cases, Obama is boosting programs that were low priorities for the Bush administration. In others, Obama is using the bill to launch new programs that he says will simultaneously stimulate the economy and create incentives for new technology, clean energy and education.
“It’s more than just a stimulus bill,” said political analyst Stuart Rothenberg. “It’s a stimulus bill that reflects the priorities and promises of Barack Obama, of Democrats and the new administration.”
Norman Ornstein, a political analyst the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, describes Obama’s rapid-fire early achievements -- the largest economic stimulus bill in history, plus an expansion of children’s health care and a new law that helps victims sue for discrimination -- in historical terms.
“That really does put him in Rooseveltian territory.”
A giant bill

The bill is huge -- 1,071 pages.
It is known as H.R. 1, the first bill in the House of Representatives, a number Democratic leaders chose to show it is their top priority. Officially, it’s called the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.
Its cost is estimated at $789 billion. The White House calls it “the most ambitious effort to stimulate the economy in our nation’s history” and says it will “create or save” 3.5 million jobs over the next two years, provide a tax credit for 95 percent of workers and their families and will double the nation’s ability to generate renewable energy in three years.
Under the new law, the government will spend $150 billion to make repairs to the nation’s infrastructure. In the old days, that just meant roads and bridges and perhaps mass transit, but the Obama White House now defines it to include the electricity grid and the broadband Internet network.
In some cases, the bill funds programs that Obama did not specifically promise to fund or support but that fit his overall themes. For example, in keeping with his promises of government accountability, the bill sends $323 million to various inspectors general in the federal government. In keeping with his promises about revitalizing rural areas, the bill sends billions of dollars to programs that affect rural housing, business, utilities, drug-related crime.
'Enhance earth mapping'

After the November election, PolitiFact staffers combed through Obama’s speeches, position papers, Web site and debate transcripts and identified his campaign promises. Of the 510 we found, 19 were tagged as related to the economy.
But the new law includes dozens more that weren’t initially intended as an economic stimulus. On energy, it addresses promises such as No. 452, “Weatherize 1 million homes per year” and No. 468, “Require hybrid fleet at the White House.” On the environment, it addresses No. 500, “Increase funding for the Environmental Protection Agency” and No. 263, “Improve water quality.”
The bill addresses many other promises that could be labeled “miscellaneous,” such as No. 278, “Remove more brush, small trees and vegetation that fuel wildfires,” No. 371, “Fund a major expansion of AmeriCorps,” and No. 345, “Enhance earth mapping.”
At the signing ceremony in Denver, Obama said the bill would have a sweeping impact.

He said, “We have begun the essential work of keeping the American dream alive in our time.”
Promises so far from the stimulus:
Here are the promises from the stimulus that we've rated so far. Keep in mind that the items won't all earn a Promise Kept. Indeed, our new ones include two Promises Kept, two Compromises and one Broken.
• No. 327, Support increased funding for National Endowment for the Arts, Promise Kept (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/327/support-increased-funding-for-the-nea/).
• No. 32, Create a tax credit of $500 for workers, Compromise (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/32/create-a-tax-credit-for-workers/)
• No. 257, Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit to offset college costs, Compromise (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/257/create-the-american-opportunity-tax-credit-to-offs/)
• No. 505, Create a $3,000 tax credit for companies that add jobs, Promise Broken (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/505/create-a-new-american-jobs-tax-credit-for-companie/)
• No. 40, Extend and index the 2007 Alternative Minimum Tax patch, Promise Kept (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/40/extend-and-index-the-2007-alternative-minimum-tax-/)









(http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/40/extend-and-index-the-2007-alternative-minimum-tax-/)

Stlrs4Life
02-22-2009, 09:16 AM
Republicans are probably pretty pissed, seems like Obama has basically done more in 1 month than there boy W did in 8 years.

PisnNapalm
02-22-2009, 09:54 AM
And all of it for the bad.... This "spending" bill isn't the answer. It's just taking on more and more debt by the government. It's diminishing the value of our money and the stability of the government in eyes of the rest of the world.

We are appearing weaker than ever to the world. They will soon start taking advantage of that weakness.

Stlrs4Life
02-22-2009, 09:59 AM
Maybe, just stating that he is keeping his promises. Remains to be seen yet.

MACH1
02-22-2009, 11:53 AM
Maybe, just stating that he is keeping his promises. Remains to be seen yet.

Still waiting for him to pay for my house and car.

Enjoy your money while you still have it! You may also want to hang on to all your magazines and newspapers for a while. Never know when ya might need to use them for butt wipe.

xfl2001fan
02-22-2009, 12:25 PM
Still waiting for him to pay for my house and car.

Enjoy your money while you still have it! You may also want to hang on to all your magazines and newspapers for a while. Never know when ya might need to use them for butt wipe.

Butt wipe? I was thinking of Kindling to start the fires I'll need to keep my family warm.

MACH1
02-22-2009, 01:07 PM
Butt wipe? I was thinking of Kindling to start the fires I'll need to keep my family warm.

That'll work too.

Preacher
02-22-2009, 02:34 PM
Republicans are probably pretty pissed, seems like Obama has basically done more in 1 month than there boy W did in 8 years.


Wow. Talk about historical ignorance.

Pulling us out of Clinton's recession,
Responding to 9-11 and disallowing another attack on our soil since.
Helping expose a MAJOR international scandal in the UN by which Iraq was basically buying votes on the security council
Leading the world in the war on terror.
Providing a social security plan for prescription drugs (something the liberals wanted, and the conservatives were against).
Introducing faith-based organizations as able to apply for fed monies when helping others (and they can do it more efficiently than the political/govt. organizations, because they are used to running that way).

And those are just off the top of my head.

Please, take the union blinders off.

SteelCurtain7
02-22-2009, 03:15 PM
Republicans are probably pretty pissed, seems like Obama has basically done more in 1 month than there boy W did in 8 years.

Done what exactly? Farking up the country at a much faster rate? :rolleyes:

hindes204
02-22-2009, 03:31 PM
Republicans are probably pretty pissed, seems like Obama has basically done more in 1 month than there boy W did in 8 years.

wow.....so you are in favor of moving this country into a socialistic society....huge government controlling everything you and i do....what happened to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....where in the constitution does it state that everybody in America is entitled to a house they cannot afford, cars they cannot afford, and more luxuries than i can even think of.

This country has been ruined by the thinking of liberals, the thinking that regardless of whether or not you strive to better yourself, whether or not you want to work hard and provide for yourself and your family, that you are entitled to certain things. Take this mortgage plan "the anointed one" has in mind. This mortgage crisis was brought on by liberals forcing banks to make loans to low income families, because they are "entitled" to own a home. If you have no down payment, no steady monthly income, and your credit sucks, you are a renter . And there is nothing wrong with that, rent for a while, build your credit up, save some money, and then, and only then should you buy a house. Instead, we cater to the lazy, and punish the hard working by raising their taxes to help the ones who weren't smart with their money

tony hipchest
02-22-2009, 03:35 PM
where in the constitution does it state that everybody in America is entitled to a house they cannot afford, cars they cannot afford, and more luxuries than i can even think of.

where ANYWHERE does it state that is what our president is striving for?

:coffee:

hindes204
02-22-2009, 03:37 PM
where ANYWHERE does it state that is what our president is striving for?

:coffee:

so you think people are entitled to these things, rather than having them work hard to have these things

The Patriot
02-22-2009, 03:39 PM
I for one still want to know more about his connections to that shady William Ayers character.

tony hipchest
02-22-2009, 03:49 PM
"I see words in peoples mouths"

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/movie_i_see_dead_people.jpg

so you think people are entitled to these things, rather than having them work hard to have these things

:rolleyes: where the HELL did you get that from?

:coffee:

hindes204
02-22-2009, 03:56 PM
where anywhere does it state that is what our president is striving for



i interpreted that as you believing that the president feels that people are entitled to those things, and you agreed...if i misinterpreted i apologize....please elaborate

tony hipchest
02-22-2009, 04:11 PM
where anywhere does it state that is what our president is striving for



i interpreted that as you believing that the president feels that people are entitled to those things, and you agreed...if i misinterpreted i apologize....please elaborate

:mg:

see post #10

wow.....so you are in favor of moving this country into a socialistic society....huge government controlling everything you and i do....what happened to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....where in the constitution does it state that everybody in America is entitled to a house they cannot afford, cars they cannot afford, and more luxuries than i can even think of.

This country has been ruined by the thinking of liberals, the thinking that regardless of whether or not you strive to better yourself, whether or not you want to work hard and provide for yourself and your family, that you are entitled to certain things. Take this mortgage plan "the anointed one" has in mind. This mortgage crisis was brought on by liberals forcing banks to make loans to low income families, because they are "entitled" to own a home. If you have no down payment, no steady monthly income, and your credit sucks, you are a renter . And there is nothing wrong with that, rent for a while, build your credit up, save some money, and then, and only then should you buy a house. Instead, we cater to the lazy, and punish the hard working by raising their taxes to help the ones who weren't smart with their money
__________________


:hunch:




NOT what the president is striving for. :coffee:

HometownGal
02-22-2009, 04:17 PM
I've made no bones around here or in real life for that matter that I am not thrilled with this pork stuffed "stimulus package", but I am going to take the "wait and see" approach before I sharpen and aim my darts.

SC Steeler Steve
02-22-2009, 04:19 PM
wow.....so you are in favor of moving this country into a socialistic society....huge government controlling everything you and i do....what happened to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....where in the constitution does it state that everybody in America is entitled to a house they cannot afford, cars they cannot afford, and more luxuries than i can even think of.

This country has been ruined by the thinking of liberals, the thinking that regardless of whether or not you strive to better yourself, whether or not you want to work hard and provide for yourself and your family, that you are entitled to certain things. Take this mortgage plan "the anointed one" has in mind. This mortgage crisis was brought on by liberals forcing banks to make loans to low income families, because they are "entitled" to own a home. If you have no down payment, no steady monthly income, and your credit sucks, you are a renter . And there is nothing wrong with that, rent for a while, build your credit up, save some money, and then, and only then should you buy a house. Instead, we cater to the lazy, and punish the hard working by raising their taxes to help the ones who weren't smart with their money


This^^^^

lilyoder6
02-22-2009, 06:22 PM
yea... i am not all happy bout the share the wealth plan

Dino 6 Rings
02-22-2009, 06:42 PM
well at least he agrees with Bush on this:

'No US rights' for Bagram inmates


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7903005.stm

Stlrs4Life
02-22-2009, 07:51 PM
wow.....so you are in favor of moving this country into a socialistic society....huge government controlling everything you and i do....what happened to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....where in the constitution does it state that everybody in America is entitled to a house they cannot afford, cars they cannot afford, and more luxuries than i can even think of.

This country has been ruined by the thinking of liberals, the thinking that regardless of whether or not you strive to better yourself, whether or not you want to work hard and provide for yourself and your family, that you are entitled to certain things. Take this mortgage plan "the anointed one" has in mind. This mortgage crisis was brought on by liberals forcing banks to make loans to low income families, because they are "entitled" to own a home. If you have no down payment, no steady monthly income, and your credit sucks, you are a renter . And there is nothing wrong with that, rent for a while, build your credit up, save some money, and then, and only then should you buy a house. Instead, we cater to the lazy, and punish the hard working by raising their taxes to help the ones who weren't smart with their money


Boogiman got you too about moving to a socialistic soceity huh? Don't worry, W is gone we don't have to worry about the republican scare tactic anymore. Government doesn't tell me what to do. They don't have to, I don't get any help from the Gov't, I personally don't need it. I go to work every day myself. But at the same time I realize that there is people out there that actually do need the help.

Stlrs4Life
02-22-2009, 07:53 PM
Done what exactly? Farking up the country at a much faster rate? :rolleyes:



Your Boy farked up enough! Don't you think?

Stlrs4Life
02-22-2009, 07:56 PM
Wow. Talk about historical ignorance.

Pulling us out of Clinton's recession,
Responding to 9-11 and disallowing another attack on our soil since.
Helping expose a MAJOR international scandal in the UN by which Iraq was basically buying votes on the security council
Leading the world in the war on terror.
Providing a social security plan for prescription drugs (something the liberals wanted, and the conservatives were against).
Introducing faith-based organizations as able to apply for fed monies when helping others (and they can do it more efficiently than the political/govt. organizations, because they are used to running that way).

And those are just off the top of my head.

Please, take the union blinders off.



You mean lied and got us into a War that we can't get out of.
Put our grand kids and there grand kids into debt.
You mean gave tax breaks to most wealthy


And those are just a few off the top of my head.

Please take Rush Limbaughs mouthpiece off.

silver & black
02-22-2009, 08:28 PM
Boogiman got you too about moving to a socialistic soceity huh? Don't worry, W is gone we don't have to worry about the republican scare tactic anymore. Government doesn't tell me what to do. They don't have to, I don't get any help from the Gov't, I personally don't need it. I go to work every day myself. But at the same time I realize that there is people out there that actually do need the help.

True... I just don't like helping them for the rest of their lives.

hindes204
02-22-2009, 08:44 PM
Boogiman got you too about moving to a socialistic soceity huh? Don't worry, W is gone we don't have to worry about the republican scare tactic anymore. Government doesn't tell me what to do. They don't have to, I don't get any help from the Gov't, I personally don't need it. I go to work every day myself. But at the same time I realize that there is people out there that actually do need the help.

scare tactic???? open your eyes, actually pay attention to what is going on. The government doesnt tell you what to do? Obamas whole plan revolves around the government controlling everything...nationalizing the banks, controlling salaries, taking over healthcare, controlling the census, putting everyone on welfare, extending unemployment benefits to part time employeees, or even employeees who quit on their own . So in other words, my tax dollars are going to go to people who are able to work, they just dont feel like it

SteelCityMan786
02-22-2009, 08:45 PM
Done what exactly? Farking up the country at a much faster rate? :rolleyes:

That's all I have been seeing.

MACH1
02-22-2009, 08:48 PM
Boogiman got you too about moving to a socialistic soceity huh? Don't worry, W is gone we don't have to worry about the republican scare tactic anymore. Government doesn't tell me what to do. They don't have to, I don't get any help from the Gov't, I personally don't need it. I go to work every day myself. But at the same time I realize that there is people out there that actually do need the help.

Keep drinking that koolaid. gulp gulp

steelwall
02-22-2009, 08:57 PM
http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/act

Ok I've heard the bill itself is way longer than just over 1,000 pages. This is the "act" as it's known on this Obama website. This is his official site endorsed by him. I have questions.

1.Create or save more than 3.5 million jobs over the next two years;

Now is it "create" or "save" seems not long ago it was create, note the word save has entered, which is it? These 2 are 2 total different ball games

2.Take a big step toward computerizing Americans’ health records, reducing medical errors, and saving billions in health care costs;

Is it me? or does not most hospitals allready have a data base. Seems any hospital I go to they can pull up my records. Is this going to save medicare?

3.Revive the renewable energy industry and provide the capital over the next three years to eventually double domestic renewable energy capacity;

Ok you are going to provide the captiol for it but "eventually we will double domestic renewable enegry "capacity" . Hmmmm are we not on track for that now? I can't see just throwing a bunch of money at this, or providing the capitol a good enough explination.

4.Undertake the largest weatherization program in history by modernizing 75 percent of federal building space and more than one million homes;

Now this one really gets me.. You are going to modernize 75% of federal buildings??!! Holy crap that must be a boatload of money...but you are also going to do one million homes....oh...ok...1 million is really nothing, and modernizing a home could mean anything, as just a simple paint job..... but how exactly is this helping me?

5.Increase college affordability for seven million students by funding the shortfall in Pell Grants, increasing the maximum award level by $500, and providing a new higher education tax cut to nearly four million students;

I just don't see "The change here" again giving more money, and giving money to education is good, but is this really going to make the difference in those that can go to college and those that can't

6.As part of the $150 billion investment in new infrastructure, enact the largest increase in funding of our nation’s roads, bridges, and mass transit systems since the creation of the national highway system in the 1950s;

Now I agree we need this, geez we have freakin bridges around the country collapsing but that doesnt seem like alot of money. Maybe we need to take away the "modernizing of Federal building"...which by the way has no cap.

7.Provide an $800 Making Work Pay tax credit for 129 million working households, and cut taxes for the families of millions of children through an expansion of the Child Tax Credit;

Who qualifies for this? Everyone?"


8.Require unprecedented levels of transparency, oversight, and accountability.

I fail to see "unprecidenred transparency here.:noidea:

lilyoder6
02-22-2009, 09:24 PM
You mean lied and got us into a War that we can't get out of.
Put our grand kids and there grand kids into debt.
You mean gave tax breaks to most wealthy


And those are just a few off the top of my head.

Please take Rush Limbaughs mouthpiece off.

wtf are u talking bout lieing??? it's war on terrorism.. 9-11

if u read what OBAMA is doing.. HE is the ONE putting the grand kids and there kids into major debt

and evry president has given tax breaks to the wealthy... don't just single out bush

GBMelBlount
02-22-2009, 09:39 PM
Obama has basically done more in 1 month than there boy W did in 8 years.

Increased government spending by close to a trillion dollars? I guess he has done more of that in one month. :thumbsup:

It's almost trillion dollars of stupidity imo. Have you ever taken a course in economics? Do you think this is how you create permanent jobs and improve the economy, by running close to a trillion dollars through the government? The vast majority of new jobs are created by small businesses who are being strangled by massive government taxes...this bill gives them very little relief.

Do you REALLY think this is a good bill Stlrs4life? That's fine if you do, but since you started this thread, it would be nice to hear some intelligent reasons why you do....

MACH1
02-22-2009, 09:51 PM
Increased government spending by close to a trillion dollars? I guess he has done more of that in one month. :thumbsup:

It's almost trillion dollars of stupidity imo. Have you ever taken a course in economics? Do you think this is how you create permanent jobs and improve the economy, by running close to a trillion dollars through the government? The vast majority of new jobs are created by small businesses who are being strangled by massive government taxes...this bill gives them very little relief.

Do you REALLY think this is a good bill Stlrs4life? That's fine if you do, but since you started this thread, it would be nice to hear some intelligent reasons why you do....

Just wait. Its going to get even better. Obama is already working on "spendulas Part II"

Stlrs4Life
02-22-2009, 09:51 PM
Over a period it is a good bill, if it does what it says it will. And the thread was intended on him keeping his promises.

tony hipchest
02-22-2009, 09:56 PM
Increased government spending by close to a trillion dollars? I guess he has done more of that in one month. :thumbsup:

It's almost trillion dollars of stupidity imo. Have you ever taken a course in economics? ....:yawn:

some intelligent reasons would be nice.

GB... since youre such the expert, why dont you educate us all, and show last years spending budget vs. the one obama is proposing.

we can go from there....

:coffee:

lilyoder6
02-22-2009, 10:38 PM
Over a period it is a good bill, if it does what it says it will. And the thread was intended on him keeping his promises.

he will keep his promise by increasing this countries debt...

look at this and just think

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 23 Feb 2009 at 04:32:09 AM GMT is:
$10,813,535,236,543.26

now.. i don't know if this has the trillion dollar debt obama is adding or not..

this country is 232 going on 233 yrs old... and in that time frame the country went into 10.8 trillion debt

OBAMA is adding 1/10 of that debt when he signs the bill.."if he alrdy did, then it would of been 1/9"

that is crazy... 1/10 "1/9" in 1 day compared to 232/233 yrs... GOOD JOB OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kill what future the next few generations have...

tony hipchest
02-22-2009, 10:41 PM
:rofl:

good job lilyoder...

maybe in 4 years i can vote for you as prez.


:coffee:

revefsreleets
02-23-2009, 10:31 AM
Something had to be done.

Some people think it was too much.

Some people think it wasn't enough.

Only time will tell, and it will probably take a LONG time to tell for this one.

As for me, I'm not going to blindly cheerlead for Obama...nor will I slam the guy outright. I'm going to "wait and see". We all kind of have to anyways, so...

GBMelBlount
02-23-2009, 11:24 AM
Something had to be done.

Some people think it was too much.

Some people think it wasn't enough.

Only time will tell, and it will probably take a LONG time to tell for this one.



I don't think it had to be done by the government spending Revs.

It will probably take a long time (if ever) for our children and their children, to pay off the debt, if it can ever be. My problem is that most jobs and long term economic employment is created by small businesses and I'm not really sure how much this is helping them.

Once the government spends their money, to build Harry Reid's 8 billion dollar transit system for instance, those GOVERNMENT EMPLOYED workers will likely be unemployed again.....That is unless they can figure out a way to take 5 times longer and 10 times more money to finish it, which as we all know, the government is very good at..... but let's not worry about trivial details such as government spending or accountability......after all, IT'S NOT THEIR MONEY, IT'S OURS.......and let's be honest, we will come out of this at some point down the road and I'm sure Obama and his trillion dollar "stroke of the pen" will get much the credit. If not, it's obvious that Bush created such a mess that it will take longer than 4 years for Obama and his "changed" government to fix.

Right Stlrs4life? :chuckle:

revefsreleets
02-23-2009, 11:48 AM
I actually think the government DID have to step in.

I don't think anyone has yet totally wrapped their head around just how bad this situation actually is.

There is a slowly building concensus that ONLY nationalizing the banks will suck the poison out of the system, and that's bipartisan concensus. There has been a lot of "Ostrich politics" going on, and a lot of whistling past the graveyard, but things are really, really bad. Too bad for the "markets to correct themselves" this time.

I don't think the stimulus bill is going to do the trick. I think it's putting a band-aid on a decapitated body. But it looks good for the politicians to say "Look at me, I DID something!"

GBMelBlount
02-23-2009, 12:06 PM
I do understand what you are saying Revs.

I just think that if the goal is to create new jobs and stimulate the economy long term, that the best way to do that is give money directly back to small businesses through tax cuts/incentives. That way, those who are most likely to take one dollar and employ people to turn it into 2 dollars, etc., are getting the $800 billion DIRECTLY.

that's all.

GBMelBlount
02-23-2009, 04:01 PM
:yawn:

some intelligent reasons would be nice.

GB... since youre such the expert, why dont you educate us all, and show last years spending budget vs. the one obama is proposing.

we can go from there....

:coffee:

Sure tony, I'll educate you:

Bush's big budget: :thmbdown:

Obama's even bigger budget: :monkey:

See, Obama's budget is obviously much worse.....

Steelcitygal87
02-23-2009, 04:19 PM
Sure tony, I'll educate you:

Bush's big budget: :thmbdown:

Obama's even bigger budget: :monkey:

See, Obama's budget is obviously much worse.....

Most excellent post. :thumbsup::drink:

Preacher
02-23-2009, 04:48 PM
You mean lied and got us into a War that we can't get out of.
Put our grand kids and there grand kids into debt.
You mean gave tax breaks to most wealthy


And those are just a few off the top of my head.

Please take Rush Limbaughs mouthpiece off.

Here's a hint.

I DONT LISTEN TO RUSH.

Now, let me ask you a question . . How often do YOU Listen to YOUR UNION BOSSES?


Bush lied? Seriously. are you STILL believing that nonsense? Do you SERIOUSLY have your head that deep in the ground that you REFUSE to beleive ALL the evidence out there that EVERYONE, including Russia, France and Germany believed THE SAME THING??

Bush was WRONG. So was the ENTIRE WESTERN WORLD. Please, pick up a dictionary and learn the semantic domains between the two terms.

The grandkids have been in debt for DECADES. Is it no wonder that we are usually in debt JUST ABOUT AS MUCH as our social programs have cost this nation? Hmmm.

Seems to me, I got a tax break, and NO ONE making the salary I was can be considered wealthy.

Did the wealthy get more money? Yep. When was the last time a poor person CREATED jobs?

Its time for this nation to grow up and stop acting like spoiled children. If YOU want more money, go start a business. Don't just bleed jealousy at the guy who's family sacrificed to provide HIM with a great living.

MACH1
02-23-2009, 04:55 PM
If YOU want more money, go start a business. Don't just bleed jealousy at the guy who's family sacrificed to provide HIM with a great living.


Its almost not worth it, 35% taxes and coming to you in the near future, paying for everybody's insurance when I can't afford my own. :doh:

Havik
02-23-2009, 05:01 PM
I am taking the wait and see approach too. I hope this stimulus bill will do a lot of good by investing in things we need (roads, schools) while removing what we don't need (Iraq, corporate welfare). I really hope in the future to see a government that works for it's people, not one that gets bought out by big business and benefits only wealthy CEO's.

lilyoder6
02-23-2009, 05:09 PM
:rofl:

good job lilyoder...

maybe in 4 years i can vote for you as prez.


:coffee:

:applaudit::applaudit:

idk how to take this statement tony

SteelCityMom
02-23-2009, 06:08 PM
Its almost not worth it, 35% taxes and coming to you in the near future, paying for everybody's insurance when I can't afford my own. :doh:

Yeah, I have to agree with you on this one. This is one of the reasons why my friends business here in Pittsburgh tanked. I don't necessarily agree with the whole stimulus package Obama and Congress have arranged, and wish there wasn't as much needless spending included in it, but small business owners definitely should be the recipients of some large tax breaks IMO. Not only do you have to worry about insuring your employees, you have to worry about getting and paying for all your local and city permits (depending on the type of business, there can be a laundry list of these permits) and it ends up taking A TON of money to open up a business without government backing.

ShutDown24
02-23-2009, 06:33 PM
Keeping his promises? That's a little bit of a spin... But at least he's not failing.

GBMelBlount
02-23-2009, 08:59 PM
Its almost not worth it, 35% taxes and coming to you in the near future, paying for everybody's insurance when I can't afford my own. :doh:

I agree Mach. THAT is the problem in my opinion. Taxes, insurance, licenses, etc. make it very difficult to start, run and GROW a small business and I believe 80% of working Americans are employed by "small" businesses. It is just common sense imo that if you want to grow jobs and the economy you do that by stimulating small business growth by lowering taxes on small businesses, NOT through the government spending $800 BILLION dollars of our childrens and grandchildrens money. I just don't understand why people don't get it.

MACH1
02-23-2009, 10:46 PM
I agree Mach. THAT is the problem in my opinion. Taxes, insurance, licenses, etc. make it very difficult to start, run and GROW a small business and I believe 80% of working Americans are employed by "small" businesses. It is just common sense imo that if you want to grow jobs and the economy you do that by stimulating small business growth by lowering taxes on small businesses, NOT through the government spending $800 BILLION dollars of our childrens and grandchildrens money. I just don't understand why people don't get it.

Exactly, owning your own business isn't that glamorous. With our one business(assisted living) people have no clue about how many yearly permits and licensing there is. Then there's the insurance, workmans comp, matching unemployment funds. All that before you can buy supplies, then by the time you pay your employee's there's not much left over. My business isn't quite as bad, but I have to have EPA, DEQ and a hazardous chem permit for my shop. And I'm my only employee.

Now if Obama gets his way, what was it 45% business tax? It wont be worth all the headache. Certainly not the 20 hour days.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-24-2009, 02:08 AM
You mean lied and got us into a War that we can't get out of. Who says he lied? You? You don't think Sadam could move his WMDs? If your mom told you that in a week she would be in your room checking it for porn, I bet you would find the time to move/hide it.

Put our grand kids and there grand kids into debt.and this "stimulus isn't? Where exactly is this money coming from if we are already in debt?

You mean gave tax breaks to most wealthywho pay 70% of ALL Federal taxes, also, who do you think creates jobs


And those are just a few off the top of my head.

Please take Rush Limbaughs mouthpiece off.

I swear liberals are the most ignorant, arrogant, and hypocritical people on the face of the earth.

lilyoder6
02-24-2009, 07:46 AM
I swear liberals are the most ignorant, arrogant, and hypocritical people on the face of the earth.
i am reprising this post..

at the time i typed this i was prob higher than the moon...

damn plants

GBMelBlount
02-24-2009, 08:29 AM
so instead of agruing his point, u have to make a remark against him...

that TELLS me that he is RIGHT and u are WRONG... :hatsoff:

Why would simply expressing a general opinion automatically validate an opposing view?

revefsreleets
02-24-2009, 08:55 AM
The average person has no clue, NO CLUE as to the ass raping SB goes through every day. One of the main reasons is they are woefully under-represented in DC. The whole SB bloc probably has about as much PAC/Lobby power as GM does, and GM is just ONE corporate entity.

Whenever some revenue needs generated, the Congress just hits SB with some more taxes/OSHA regs(with monetary pemnalties)/dues/fees etc, etc (and I didn't even touch insurance and the like, which Mach talked about). The cost of doing business is prohibitive. I'm actually amazed any small businesses survive, let alone flourish.

Additional taxing of SB is not only stupid, it's almost suicidal. They employ half the people in this country, and probably make-up 70% of new hires. But whenever Democrats want some more money for a pet spending project, they are always right back at SB. It's just ridiculously foolish...

lilyoder6
02-24-2009, 09:55 AM
Why would simply expressing a general opinion automatically validate an opposing view?

b/c the only thing he could come up with was a remark..

it's seen through out many things, once a person knows he is losing or bout to lose he tries to save hims;ef/herself by throwing out remarks

GBMelBlount
02-24-2009, 11:04 AM
b/c the only thing he could come up with was a remark..

it's seen through out many things, once a person knows he is losing or bout to lose he tries to save hims;ef/herself by throwing out remarks

I didn't see anything that he said or that was said to him that gave me the impression he was bout to lose. I understand what your saying in general though.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-24-2009, 04:18 PM
so instead of agruing his point, u have to make a remark against him...


that TELLS me that he is RIGHT and u are WRONG... :hatsoff:

Sorry, I overestimated your intelligence. I thought anyone would be able to tell that the remarks written in bold were my response to his points. Obviously I gave you more credit then you deserve.

Maybe if I post it this way you might comprehend it:

Originally Posted by Stlrs4Life
His remark You mean lied and got us into a War that we can't get out of
My response Who says he lied? You? You don't think Sadam could move his WMDs? If your mom told you that in a week she would be in your room checking it for porn, I bet you would find the time to move/hide it.

His remark Put our grand kids and there grand kids into debt.
My response and this "stimulus isn't? Where exactly is this money coming from if we are already in debt?

His remark You mean gave tax breaks to most wealthy
My response who pay 70% of ALL Federal taxes, also, who do you think creates jobs?

Is that easier for you to understand?

HometownGal
02-24-2009, 04:27 PM
b/c the only thing he could come up with was a remark..

it's seen through out many things, once a person knows he is losing or bout to lose he tries to save hims;ef/herself by throwing out remarks

This isn't about "winning" or "losing". IBBAG has his opinion, Stlrs4life has his opinion, you have yours and life goes on. I had no problem whatsoever figuring out that IBBAG's responses to Stlrs4life's post were bolded. May want to wipe dem specs off, buddy. :chuckle:

Gentlemen - let's debate respectfully without throwing darts, please? Thanks! :drink:

lilyoder6
02-24-2009, 04:42 PM
Sorry, I overestimated your intelligence. I thought anyone would be able to tell that the remarks written in bold were my response to his points. Obviously I gave you more credit then you deserve.

Maybe if I post it this way you might comprehend it:

Originally Posted by Stlrs4Life
His remark You mean lied and got us into a War that we can't get out of
My response Who says he lied? You? You don't think Sadam could move his WMDs? If your mom told you that in a week she would be in your room checking it for porn, I bet you would find the time to move/hide it.

His remark Put our grand kids and there grand kids into debt.
My response and this "stimulus isn't? Where exactly is this money coming from if we are already in debt?

His remark You mean gave tax breaks to most wealthy
My response who pay 70% of ALL Federal taxes, also, who do you think creates jobs?

Is that easier for you to understand?



HAHAHA..

i feel like a moron right now.. b/c i actually agree with u.. damn those plants

now i understand what u said.. but i guess when i wrote what i did... I must have hit more than i should of :sofunny:

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-24-2009, 07:01 PM
HAHAHA..

i feel like a moron right now.. b/c i actually agree with u.. damn those plants

now i understand what u said.. but i guess when i wrote what i did... I must have hit more than i should of :sofunny:

lol, no hard feelings man...

Too much green isn't good for debating...

steelwall
02-24-2009, 08:14 PM
Well I'm done with this post I outlined all the implications of this stimulus package and my questions and doubts about it, none of the supporters of Obama seem to want to comment on it.

And for the record I would think it was a bad idea even if Bush had done this. I fail to see this as even a stimulus. A crap load of the money appears on the surfce to be going directly to the federal goernement.

Dino 6 Rings
02-24-2009, 08:25 PM
How do you "save" or "create" millions of jobs? I mean, how to you Count the jobs you claim to be saving?

steelwall
02-24-2009, 08:28 PM
How do you "save" or "create" millions of jobs? I mean, how to you Count the jobs you claim to be saving?

Going back on my word to be done with this thread, but that was exactly my first point. First it was "create" that many jobs, now it's creat OR save...

You are exactly right in asking how the heck would I ever determine if Obama "saved" my job?

lilyoder6
02-24-2009, 08:30 PM
i guess by saving jobs.. would mean how the money the gov or whoever is giving to companies... but idk

MACH1
02-24-2009, 11:25 PM
Whoevers left with a job in four years are the ones he saved.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-25-2009, 02:14 AM
Whoevers left with a job in four years are the ones he saved.

That's why I am planning a career at the Employment Office.

Preacher
02-25-2009, 06:43 PM
Hey... Does anyone know that the Bengals suck? :chuckle:

lilyoder6
02-25-2009, 07:02 PM
maybe this is why all the players are wanting crazy amounts of money, b/c they know there will be no jobs remaining when they retire from football and the dollar will get killed prob with this deal

Dino 6 Rings
03-01-2009, 04:41 PM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/2905215.jpg?

http://twitpic.com/1q9of

revefsreleets
03-02-2009, 09:16 AM
Only one problem with that, and that's that those mortgages are now EVERYONE'S problem...