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Preacher
02-27-2009, 03:56 PM
That we are cutting off a lot of dead weight. That is, a lot of players with "potential" that just never seems to live up to their full potential.

Washington: Potential to be a starting WR in this league and make an impact. Reality, just does not seem to really break out as THE go-to guy (granted, Ward and now Holmes are the same type of guys).

Simmons: Potential; LOTS of potential when he came into the league and played VERY well in teh beginning. BUt his diabetes and knee injury the following year really did a lot of damage to him apparently. He still has the potential to finally step it back up and play like he did his first couple years, but just hasn't done it.

Smith: Was THE DOMINATE LT in the league a few years ago. But the back problems have really hurt him.

B-Mac: Flashed VERY GOOD skills. But why couldn't he break into the line up against an aging veteran? Yes, he did this year after an injury. But he ran out of time. Now we have a very young Gay that can play almost as well as he can, just going into his 4th year.

Like I said, suddenly, I feel like we are getting rid of some dead weight from this team. Players that we were waiting for, or waiting to come back, and they never did.

I am getting even more excited about the future!

steelreserve
02-27-2009, 04:02 PM
The only problem I have is that Kemo and Starks are getting large and ridiculous contracts (respectively) because they have "potential", when at that point in your career, you shouldn't have much "potential" at all. You should have "mastery of your position," and if we offer you a sizable contract, it shouldn't be a gamble by now.

steelreserve
02-27-2009, 04:05 PM
B-Mac: Flashed VERY GOOD skills.

Also, I'm glad the trend of giving players a nickname based on the first letter of their first name and the first syllable of their last name never made it to Oakland A's pitcher Justin Duchscherer.

Phoenixus
02-27-2009, 04:07 PM
Well I think Washington will be a starter on another team and eventually prove to be a pretty good #2 reciever, I just don't think he's ever going to be the go to guy.

On another note, (about McFadden) I wouldnt undercut him that much.

Keep in mind, waaaayyy too many people underestimate just how good DeShay Townsend really is. While he is not a Hall of Famer, over the years he developed into an extremely experienced cover corner who could not be suckered in very easily. He may not have been the fastest or best, but he knew his game and played it well.

When you have someone that solid who's skill and effort level makes up for any physical abillity you end up with a guy like Ward. Townsend was the quiet version of Ward.

That's the real reason it took so long for McFadden to break in. It wasn't because of his lack of abillity, but rather because Townsend had become so good over the years it took some serious head skills to beat him out.

Sharkissle29
02-27-2009, 04:11 PM
BMAC is FAR from dead weight. He is gonna be a damn good starting corner for some other team which sucks.

Preacher
02-27-2009, 04:12 PM
The only problem I have is that Kemo and Starks are getting large and ridiculous contracts (respectively) because they have "potential", when at that point in your career, you shouldn't have much "potential" at all. You should have "mastery of your position," and if we offer you a sizable contract, it shouldn't be a gamble by now.

I've been thinking about Kemo's contract. First, this was his first year of starting. So he really shouldn't have mastery yet. I expect it to come towards the end of next year, beginning of the third year. You really need "time in place" to understand how to actually play at that level. Furthermore, his salary really ISN"T that much money comparatively. Heck, the cap is what again, 120 mill or something like that? He is going to take up what, 1 percent of the cap this year? Maybe 1.5 percent of the cap? No, that isn't a bad signing at all. It also gives us time to evaluate him to either cut, trade, or resign before the backloaded part of the salary hits the cap.

I keep saying the same thing about Starks. it is a good bandaid approach. We see what we can do in FA and in the draft. Then, we are stuck for ONE year paying a high salary. If we like him, we sign him long term. If we don't, we let him go. It gives us the opportunity to be flexible next year. It makes all the sense in the world when one take the long-view.

Preacher
02-27-2009, 04:14 PM
Well I think Washington will be a starter on another team and eventually prove to be a pretty good #2 reciever, I just don't think he's ever going to be the go to guy.

On another note, (about McFadden) I wouldnt undercut him that much.

Keep in mind, waaaayyy too many people underestimate just how good DeShay Townsend really is. While he is not a Hall of Famer, over the years he developed into an extremely experienced cover corner who could not be suckered in very easily. He may not have been the fastest or best, but he knew his game and played it well.

When you have someone that solid who's skill and effort level makes up for any physical abillity you end up with a guy like Ward. Townsend was the quiet version of Ward.

That's the real reason it took so long for McFadden to break in. It wasn't because of his lack of abillity, but rather because Townsend had become so good over the years it took some serious head skills to beat him out.

BMAC is FAR from dead weight. He is gonna be a damn good starting corner for some other team which sucks

.


You both may be right.

Don't forget, I am talking within the context of THIS team, and with Gay coming up fast on him.

Sharkissle29
02-27-2009, 04:20 PM
You both may be right.

Don't forget, I am talking within the context of THIS team, and with Gay coming up fast on him.

This is what helps ease the pain. I know Gay is more than capable of filling in just fine. Will he be as good as BMAC, maybe maybe not. Keep in mind Gay still lacks experience which could potentially make him a dangerous CB.

Bottom line it sucks to lose BMAC, but i think it will probably be for the best.

OX1947
02-27-2009, 04:28 PM
The only problem I have is that Kemo and Starks are getting large and ridiculous contracts (respectively) because they have "potential", when at that point in your career, you shouldn't have much "potential" at all. You should have "mastery of your position," and if we offer you a sizable contract, it shouldn't be a gamble by now.

They did not get their contracts because of "potential" and the contracts are not large. Kemo only has 6 mil guaranteed and starks is on a one year contract. They got their contracts because of continuity on the line at a great price for the Steelers. By doing this, this allows the Steelers to have enough money to spread around. A top notch guard would cost 8+ mil per, a top notch LT would cost 8 to 12. Now even though Starks is at 8 for 1 year, if he is signed long term, that number would go down to 6, and if not, he is off the books next year when free agents will really be a problem for the Steelers. So basically the Steelers are getting good lineman for half the price of the best in the league. You cant have top notch talent at every position in the salary cap area.

The issue late in the year wasn't pass protection. It was up the gut on run plays. Hopefully the signing of McHugh at full-time FB and Mendenhall coming back helps that area. And of course, with Hartwig more then likely having 2 years left, if the Steelers get an Alex Mack, their line situation is set. Besides the 1 yard or goal to goal run plays, stupid mistakes were what drove Steeler fans crazy. The false starts and holding calls at the worst time. Hopefully Tomlin can fix that issue in the off season.

steelerdave1969
02-27-2009, 04:29 PM
The Steelers org. are usually pretty smart when it comes to decisions like this for sure, but I would love to see Nate and B-Mac come back but I dont see it happening atleast not both of them. I am still befuzzled that the Steelers let Kendall Simmons go, just dont understand with all the sloppy play at that position at times this season.

Preacher
02-27-2009, 04:30 PM
This is what helps ease the pain. I know Gay is more than capable of filling in just fine. Will he be as good as BMAC, maybe maybe not. Keep in mind Gay still lacks experience which could potentially make him a dangerous CB.

Bottom line it sucks to lose BMAC, but i think it will probably be for the best.

He isn't going to be worth the price he is asking for. . . unlike Kemo who actually gave a hometown discount to stay, and will probably be about 1 to 1.5 percent of the cap this year.

Now the wrench in this, is the Foxworth signing for the Ravens.

You know, That may require a new thread. . . .

SteelMember
02-27-2009, 04:31 PM
One thing to keep in mind is, they are all "Cowher's guys". Just sayin'. :noidea:


Like I said, suddenly, I feel like we are getting rid of some dead weight from this team. Players that we were waiting for, or waiting to come back, and they never did.

Maybe Tomlin dosen't have the same patience for a guy he didn't go get.

BlastFurnace
02-27-2009, 04:32 PM
I'll say this about Kemo...he really wanted to stay and it didn't take a boatload of $$$ to keep him.

Elite Guards get in excess of $40 Million. over 5 years. Average Guards fall into the $25 Million and less over the same time frame....like it or not, that is where we are in today's game.

Fire Haley
02-27-2009, 04:33 PM
Watching all the teams crumbling around us, I'm feeling our window is now.

19-0 baby!!!

Blitzburgh_Fever
02-27-2009, 05:08 PM
Watching all the teams crumbling around us, I'm feeling our window is now.

19-0 baby!!!

I'd be okay with 18-1 if the "and 1" part came in the first 16 games :wink02:

Preacher
02-27-2009, 05:11 PM
One thing to keep in mind is, they are all "Cowher's guys". Just sayin'. :noidea:



Maybe Tomlin dosen't have the same patience for a guy he didn't go get.

That's a good point. . .

Though Kemo and Starks weren't Tomlin guys. Mahan was a Tomlin guy. So who knows :hunch:

Justano
02-27-2009, 05:12 PM
did we fukin forget about harrison???? they sign him yet???

SteelMember
02-27-2009, 06:07 PM
That's a good point. . .

Though Kemo and Starks weren't Tomlin guys. Mahan was a Tomlin guy. So who knows :hunch:

No, but maybe he thought they (Kemo and Starks) showed enough promise to keep... and Mahan, well we know where he isn't. :chuckle:

lilyoder6
02-27-2009, 06:29 PM
i like the feeling of getting rid of some of these dead weight

LVSteelersfan
02-27-2009, 06:52 PM
The Steelers org. are usually pretty smart when it comes to decisions like this for sure, but I would love to see Nate and B-Mac come back but I dont see it happening atleast not both of them. I am still befuzzled that the Steelers let Kendall Simmons go, just dont understand with all the sloppy play at that position at times this season.

Did you happen to forget that the Steelers O-line was MUCH WORSE when Simmons was in there? They started gelling (if you can call it that) after Stapleton took over for him. Simmons sucks as does Colon. I don't buy that Colon will be any better at guard than tackle because his head is not in the game with all of the false starts he gets. And in critical situations. I have to see it to believe it. Glad that Simmons is gone. Why do people want to keep these mediocre players? Some of them have to go to make room for the new ones. I think Marvel and Simmons being sent packing is a good start. But we have to keep some of them for continuity and Kemo and Colon are coming pretty cheap for their positions. Hartwig is ok. Hopefully we draft a center we can groom while Hartwig plays for the time being.

4xSBChamps
02-27-2009, 07:02 PM
Watching all the teams crumbling around us, I'm feeling our window is now.

19-0 baby!!!

I'd be okay with 18-1 if the "and 1" part came in the first 16 games :wink02:

..... playing football in January, and winning on the first Sunday of February, is all that matters:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f3fTVkavMVg/SYcuczbkK-I/AAAAAAAABBg/HaOpPgHpUdU/s320/5278486711be.jpg

http://goproevents.com/images/swann_catch_big.jpg

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/spe/2000/landryspecial/img/landrynoll.jpg

http://pro.corbis.com/images/U1991886.jpg?size=67&uid=%7BF4EB182E-CA42-4530-AE68-F1B3BE9F9E7D%7D

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07NW3Ki3ME5cK/340x.jpg

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20090202/425.ad.BenRoethlisberger.020209.jpg

everything-else for the quasi-expert/fantasy-players, and for Hornkaiser & Cinnabon to cackle-over on ESPN.

KeiselPower99
02-27-2009, 10:21 PM
Add Anthony Smith to the dead weight list.

jjpro11
02-27-2009, 11:41 PM
why do people keep saying mcfadden couldnt break the starting lineup? he started every game this year when he was healthy, including the entire postseason. gay started and played well when mcfadden was injured, but mcfadden took the job back when he came back. he's a good corner.. just because he is leaving doesnt mean he is a bad player... i didnt see anyone say that during the season.

Preacher
02-28-2009, 12:29 AM
why do people keep saying mcfadden couldnt break the starting lineup? he started every game this year when he was healthy, including the entire postseason. gay started and played well when mcfadden was injured, but mcfadden took the job back when he came back. he's a good corner.. just because he is leaving doesnt mean he is a bad player... i didnt see anyone say that during the season.

No one is saying he is a bad player. I wouldn't mind seeing him come back. However, what IS being said is that it took this long for him to break into the starting lineup, and then only because of injury this year. Yet, Gay is not too far behind him after only 3 years in the league. So B-mac will get squeezed out. Gay gets resigned next year or the year because he has more time to put into the organization at this point.

tony hipchest
02-28-2009, 12:44 AM
No one is saying he is a bad player. I wouldn't mind seeing him come back. However, what IS being said is that it took this long for him to break into the starting lineup, and then only because of injury this year. .

didnt he win the job outright in camp and start vs, the texans?

nobody breaks into the lebeau defense right away. not woodley, not timmons.... shoot, it even took a while for freaks of nature like harrison, troy, and hampton a while just to crack cowhers lineup.

point is mario williams or patrick willis would bide there time if they were drafted by the steelers.

lilyoder6
02-28-2009, 01:16 AM
even tho patrick willis is a freak of nature... i don't think he would of started day 1...

Preacher
02-28-2009, 03:08 AM
didnt he win the job outright in camp and start vs, the texans?

nobody breaks into the lebeau defense right away. not woodley, not timmons.... shoot, it even took a while for freaks of nature like harrison, troy, and hampton a while just to crack cowhers lineup.

point is mario williams or patrick willis would bide there time if they were drafted by the steelers.

You're right, no one breaks in right away. But it says something that they think Gay is ready to step in already.

That is the gist of my argument, that Gay's development has basically squeezed B-mac out when it comes to salary. He is not a necessity to sign again, because they can look to Gay.

Now if they DO sign him, I will jump for joy because I like the kid.