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View Full Version : Marijuana laws possibly changing in CA?


SteelCityMom
02-27-2009, 04:00 PM
"An assemblyman from San Francisco announced legislation Monday to do just that: make California the first state in the nation to tax and regulate recreational marijuana in the same manner as alcohol."

...Story continued...http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pottax24-2009feb24,0,7534269.story?vote45247971=1

Also, it looks as if Obama may be keeping his word about at least one of his campaign stances, ending raids on pot dispensaries in CA, something that Clinton encouraged and Bush enforced strictly. I like his stance on states being allowed to make their own laws on medical marijuana and not allowing the federal gov't. to interfere with it. A step in the right direction IMO.

...Story here...http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/02/27/MN2016651R.DTL

xfl2001fan
02-27-2009, 04:04 PM
Kudos to allowing each state to run itself.

Now, if only he could find a way to force them to mange their own budgets...

oh but if he could do that...he'd be a hypocrite.

revefsreleets
02-27-2009, 05:16 PM
'Bout time.

War on Drugs was and is retarded...

Preacher
02-27-2009, 05:28 PM
Funny thing is,

It is STILL illegal according to federal law. So any and every person seen buying and smoking it could STILL be arrested if the feds. wanted to prosecute.

Now they won't worry about it, until they need to pick someone up for something. They will use marijuana possession as the reason.

HometownGal
02-27-2009, 05:33 PM
I'm all for individual states setting their own standards with regard to medical Mary Jane. Only problem is in Taxylvania, Eddie The Hut will tax each puff. :jerkit:

T&B fan
02-27-2009, 06:13 PM
I am all for it , but I see no way they can tax it .. how do you tax the # of ears of corn I can grow ?????

SteelCityMom
02-27-2009, 06:29 PM
Funny thing is,

It is STILL illegal according to federal law. So any and every person seen buying and smoking it could STILL be arrested if the feds. wanted to prosecute.

Now they won't worry about it, until they need to pick someone up for something. They will use marijuana possession as the reason.

Well that's the whole point of the second article I posted, which clearly states that Obama plans to end federal raids. "U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder is sending strong signals that President Obama - who as a candidate said states should be allowed to make their own rules on medical marijuana - will end raids on pot dispensaries in California." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/02/27/MN2016651R.DTL

Also, it is encouraging to know that the CA Supreme Court has upheld a decision saying that State medical marijuana laws are not preempted by federal laws, and this case was denied review by the US Supreme Court on Dec. 1st 2008. This basically means that local and state cops cannot bust someone who legally has medical marijuana, nor can they bust the shops selling them.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december012008/court_ruling_medpot_12-1-08.php

This is encouraging for the 13 other states with medical marijuana laws.

SteelCityMom
02-27-2009, 06:32 PM
I am all for it , but I see no way they can tax it .. how do you tax the # of ears of corn I can grow ?????

The same way they tax alcohol basically..."Ammiano's measure, AB 390, would essentially replicate the regulatory structure used for beer, wine and hard liquor, with taxed sales barred to anyone under 21."

tony hipchest
02-27-2009, 06:36 PM
I am all for it , but I see no way they can tax it .. how do you tax the # of ears of corn I can grow ?????
americans are too lazy to grow their own corn, tobacco, or herbs.

they would much rather just go to a store and buy it (instant gratification) and it will be taxed.

Preacher
02-27-2009, 06:49 PM
Personally,

I think medical marijuana is a crock.

If they want to LEGALIZE smoking pot, put it before the voters to legalize it.

But this is nothing but an excuse.

I know a number of people around here that have or are trying to get a card. Only ONE of them has a legitimate reason, and that person could get as much relief with other medicine, but just wanted to do it through pot instead of 2 or 3 pills. The rest? Well, "When I smoke pot, I don't argue as much, I am more calm."

yeah, great argument.

And yeah, that is about the logic that is used to get the card, and they DO get them.

It is a dishonest way to flirt the laws. Either be honest and repel the law, or stick with it.

silver & black
02-27-2009, 07:27 PM
americans are too lazy to grow their own corn, tobacco, or herbs.

they would much rather just go to a store and buy it (instant gratification) and it will be taxed.

Last time I bought corn, it was from a local farmer's market. I'm pretty sure it was grown by an American.

How many "Americans" own enough land to grow their own corn, tobacco and herbs?

silver & black
02-27-2009, 07:29 PM
Personally,

I think medical marijuana is a crock.

If they want to LEGALIZE smoking pot, put it before the voters to legalize it.

But this is nothing but an excuse.

I know a number of people around here that have or are trying to get a card. Only ONE of them has a legitimate reason, and that person could get as much relief with other medicine, but just wanted to do it through pot instead of 2 or 3 pills. The rest? Well, "When I smoke pot, I don't argue as much, I am more calm."

yeah, great argument.

And yeah, that is about the logic that is used to get the card, and they DO get them.

It is a dishonest way to flirt the laws. Either be honest and repel the law, or stick with it.

:drink:...:thumbsup:

SteelCityMom
02-27-2009, 07:40 PM
Personally,

I think medical marijuana is a crock.

If they want to LEGALIZE smoking pot, put it before the voters to legalize it.

But this is nothing but an excuse.

I know a number of people around here that have or are trying to get a card. Only ONE of them has a legitimate reason, and that person could get as much relief with other medicine, but just wanted to do it through pot instead of 2 or 3 pills. The rest? Well, "When I smoke pot, I don't argue as much, I am more calm."

yeah, great argument.

And yeah, that is about the logic that is used to get the card, and they DO get them.

It is a dishonest way to flirt the laws. Either be honest and repel the law, or stick with it.

I don't think it's a total crock, though you make a valid point, there are those that abuse the system, but it's partially the doctors writing the prescriptions fault as well, as they only care about the money they are getting paid to give a prescription, not about how sick the patient is.

It's not a crock for everyone though, and I know this first hand. My father died of cancer and during chemo especially, the pain pills were not a preferred option. If you've ever taken pain pills, you would know that they do absolutely nothing to increase your appetite. Imagine needing to take them 24 hours a day. It's not legal here of course in PA, but I shirked the law for my father to get him something that would allow him to eat a meal.

Personally, I think they should just legalize it as well, there's no reason not to. Just keep in mind, when prohibition of alcohol took place, the first step to it being legalized again was proposing that is was being used for medical use. During prohibition, congressional hearings were held on "medical beer," a serious effort to get around the law.

It is somewhat hypocritical of the federal government to look down on medical marijuana anyway...since they still have a handful of patients who still receive it.

"Long before the Reagan administration was taking AIDS seriously, people suffering and dying from it spread the word that marijuana could ease nausea and increase appetite, both crucial to living with the disease. Some early AIDS patients turned to a little-known Food and Drug Administration pilot program that allowed those with legitimate medical need to get marijuana directly from the government. The program dated to 1976, when Washington, D.C. resident and glaucoma patient Robert Randall, using the medical-necessity argument, essentially forced the feds into growing pot on a farm in Mississippi. Today, a handful of surviving patients get a monthly canister containing three hundred prerolled joints.

The Compassionate Investigational New Drug program had very few initial participants. For one thing, marijuana was widely available, cheap, and of increasingly high quality. For another, the nation had a permissive attitude toward the drug, with even President Jimmy Carter calling for decriminalization. There was little incentive for a patient to apply, especially given a built-in disincentive: that your name would now be on a federal list associated with marijuana. That changed with HIV. As AIDS patients discovered pot's palliative effects, cancer patients took notice, too. In 1992, overwhelmed with applications, the feds closed the Investigational New Drug program to new members."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassionate_Investigational_New_Drug_program

SteelCityMom
02-27-2009, 08:14 PM
Apologies for the long winded post lol (I think I had one too many cups of coffee with dinner tonight) but last thought I wanted to put out there right now is that the prescription drug industry is riddled with abuse by patients and doctors as well. While there are obviously many people who need drugs like sleep aids, anti-depression medication, pain pills etc... there are many who can easily get these prescriptions continuously by just saying things like "oh I'm still having trouble sleeping, or my back is killing me" and there are doctors who don't think twice about writing the script, as long as they get paid.

While most times people begin using these drugs for valid reasons, many continue to use because of addiction and possibly to resell (oxycontin, percocets, etc.). And many get prescriptions easily for these reasons alone.

It's partially the states fault (in the case of marijuana) because they really put no limitations on what ailments medical marijuana could be used for in the first place.

T&B fan
02-27-2009, 08:46 PM
The same way they tax alcohol basically..."Ammiano's measure, AB 390, would essentially replicate the regulatory structure used for beer, wine and hard liquor, with taxed sales barred to anyone under 21."

you can't tax a weed. yes you could say the pot you get from the drug store ok but most true smokers will drop a few seeds in the grownd and walk a way ..

americans are too lazy to grow their own corn, tobacco, or herbs.

they would much rather just go to a store and buy it (instant gratification) and it will be taxed.

as I said above its a weed ,no work in it .. and if you grow it right you will have beter stuff ..

tony hipchest
02-27-2009, 08:52 PM
Last time I bought corn, it was from a local farmer's market. I'm pretty sure it was grown by an American.


my point exactly. you bought corn. why didnt you grow it yourself and not pay tax?

HometownGal
02-27-2009, 09:08 PM
you can't tax a weed. yes you could say the pot you get from the drug store ok but most true smokers will drop a few seeds in the grownd and walk a way ..



as I said above its a weed ,no work in it .. and if you grow it right you will have beter stuff ..

Tobacco seeds are planted into the ground and the plants are grown and then shredded to make cigarettes, which are taxed.

AllD
02-27-2009, 09:15 PM
It's a legitimate drug for people who need it and a recreational one for those who do not. LEgalize it and tax it. There are ways to tax home grown too.

My grandmother needs it for her glaucoma. She puts on some Grateful Dead and works on her eyesight.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-27-2009, 09:52 PM
Problem is where does it stop? Marijuana? Meth? Cocaine? Heroin? Where does it all end?

Like I said in a previous thread, imagine our unemployment rate if marijuana is legalized. At least Taco Bell and Cheetos will be raking in record profits though.

SteelCityMom
02-27-2009, 10:12 PM
Problem is where does it stop? Marijuana? Meth? Cocaine? Heroin? Where does it all end?

Like I said in a previous thread, imagine our unemployment rate if marijuana is legalized. At least Taco Bell and Cheetos will be raking in record profits though.

Well, the other drugs mentioned will most likely never be legalized, at least in any of our lifetimes. The most we would ever see would be decriminalization, and even though I'm for it, I highly doubt it.

The unemployment rate would not suddenly skyrocket if marijuana were legalized. There is already a large number of employed people who use marijuana. It's not like if you legalized it all of the sudden everybody who doesn't choose to do it now is going to run out and do it daily just because they can.

This is a very irrational view on the subject. There are very productive, professional people who smoke pot.

tony hipchest
02-27-2009, 10:34 PM
Problem is where does it stop? Marijuana? Meth? Cocaine? Heroin? Where does it all end?

.oh gee, i dont know.

if we can sell assault weapons to the public yet still refrain from selling them bazookas, flamethrowers, and rpg's, im sure our govt can figure out something. :noidea:



The unemployment rate would not suddenly skyrocket if marijuana were legalized. There is already a large number of employed people who use marijuana. It's not like if you legalized it all of the sudden everybody who doesn't choose to do it now is going to run out and do it daily just because they can.

This is a very irrational view on the subject. There are very productive, professional people who smoke pot.while what you say is 100% true, some people will never buy it because they cling to the stereotypes and their prejudices that anyone who smokes dope is a tree hugging liberal who craves cheetos.

they are the same people who will applaud rush limbaugh overcoming his oxycontin addiction yet look down their nose at a junkie at a methadone clinic.

they are convinced they are right, and everybody else is wrong.

devilsdancefloor
02-27-2009, 11:51 PM
http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/3/2/27/gumby12001/f_halfbakedm_08d6270.jpg

these guys are so ready for this!:flap:

SteelCityMom
02-28-2009, 01:34 AM
oh gee, i dont know.

if we can sell assault weapons to the public yet still refrain from selling them bazookas, flamethrowers, and rpg's, im sure our govt can figure out something. :noidea:

while what you say is 100% true, some people will never buy it because they cling to the stereotypes and their prejudices that anyone who smokes dope is a tree hugging liberal who craves cheetos.

they are the same people who will applaud rush limbaugh overcoming his oxycontin addiction yet look down their nose at a junkie at a methadone clinic.

they are convinced they are right, and everybody else is wrong.


Well....cheetos ARE pretty damn tasty :yummy:

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
02-28-2009, 02:10 AM
I would like to see that statistics showing how many professional, productive people smoke pot. I am not going by "stereotypes", I am going by experience. No one I know that smokes pot (and yes, it is quite a few) are professional, productive people. I do know many that are in bands that are never going anywhere or are unemployed living at home thought.

MACH1
02-28-2009, 02:13 AM
I know a president that's done coke. :chuckle:

Preacher
02-28-2009, 02:49 AM
oh gee, i dont know.

if we can sell assault weapons to the public yet still refrain from selling them bazookas, flamethrowers, and rpg's, im sure our govt can figure out something. :noidea:

while what you say is 100% true, some people will never buy it because they cling to the stereotypes and their prejudices that anyone who smokes dope is a tree hugging liberal who craves cheetos.

they are the same people who will applaud rush limbaugh overcoming his oxycontin addiction yet look down their nose at a junkie at a methadone clinic.

they are convinced they are right, and everybody else is wrong.

Somewhere, somplace, you ran into someone that really screwed with your head.

May I suggest that re-visit those thoughts, because my stand against legalizing it has everything to do with the people and families whose lives they are trying to put back together.

MasterOfPuppets
02-28-2009, 04:15 AM
I would like to see that statistics showing how many professional, productive people smoke pot. I am not going by "stereotypes", I am going by experience. No one I know that smokes pot (and yes, it is quite a few) are professional, productive people. I do know many that are in bands that are never going anywhere or are unemployed living at home thought.i happen to know quite a few....just because people don't go around advertising thier habbits, doesn't mean they don't have em. most "professional" people tend to lean toward coke as thier drug of choice. :wink02:

SteelCityMom
02-28-2009, 07:35 AM
I would like to see that statistics showing how many professional, productive people smoke pot. I am not going by "stereotypes", I am going by experience. No one I know that smokes pot (and yes, it is quite a few) are professional, productive people. I do know many that are in bands that are never going anywhere or are unemployed living at home thought.

I will certainly look up something on this for you, but I can think of one successful and motivated person who was found to smoke pot...Micheal Phelps, Americas Olympic hero.

How do you feel about alcohol use? It's legal, and plenty of hardworking, successful people enjoy drinking and are responsible with it. On the flip side, I've seen some people in my time who were nothing but fat, lazy, drunk slobs who were never going to amount to anything if they didn't quit drinking.

See how something like that can be skewed.

SteelCityMom
02-28-2009, 07:47 AM
i happen to know quite a few....just because people don't go around advertising thier habbits, doesn't mean they don't have em. most "professional" people tend to lean toward coke as thier drug of choice. :wink02:

Very true, while I know of quite a few as well, for the most part, because of it being illegal, you're not going to have a ton of "professional, well off" people just blabbing about how they smoke some pot. Most of them don't care to talk about their sex lives either, but they have them lol.

HometownGal
02-28-2009, 07:53 AM
i happen to know quite a few....just because people don't go around advertising thier habbits, doesn't mean they don't have em. most "professional" people tend to lean toward coke as thier drug of choice. :wink02:

I agree. I can't even begin to tell you how many attorneys I worked with over the years who were coke-heads (and alcoholics).

MasterOfPuppets
02-28-2009, 08:55 AM
I agree. I can't even begin to tell you how many attorneys I worked with over the years who were coke-heads (and alcoholics).

i actually had 2 attourneys in mind when i wrote that. they're a married couple that i was doing some work on a house they just purchased. i walked in on em not knowing they were there, and there they were sparkin up a joint....:laughing: ....also in my younger care free days when i lived in florida, i met, and smoked some herb with a florida state college professor....:noidea:

T&B fan
02-28-2009, 09:07 AM
Tobacco seeds are planted into the ground and the plants are grown and then shredded to make cigarettes, which are taxed.

no not true tobacco is not just picked and shredded , the makers of cigarettes put a lot of stuff in it to make it better to smoke .. and more addicting ...also I think you need to groom tobacco .? as it grows .


oh gee, i dont know.

if we can sell assault weapons to the public yet still refrain from selling them bazookas, flamethrowers, and rpg's, im sure our govt can figure out something. :noidea:

while what you say is 100% true, some people will never buy it because they cling to the stereotypes and their prejudices that anyone who smokes dope is a tree hugging liberal who craves cheetos.

they are the same people who will applaud rush limbaugh overcoming his oxycontin addiction yet look down their nose at a junkie at a methadone clinic.

they are convinced they are right, and everybody else is wrong.

yes the great I can't hear you Rush ,"throw the drugies out ". Oh but him no he just needs a little ( 5000 pills a month ) of hill billy Heroin .

I know a president that's done coke. :chuckle:

more then one . but the rest of them still liveing a lie ..

lilyoder6
02-28-2009, 09:12 AM
shit the early days when coke-cola came out.. who ever drank that did coke..

SteelCityMom
02-28-2009, 09:45 AM
shit the early days when coke-cola came out.. who ever drank that did coke..

Yup, and not to mention Freud (huge coke head) used to prescribe it to many of his patients.

Dino 6 Rings
02-28-2009, 09:54 AM
I think its wrong that we teach our kids that Marijuana is as bad as all other drugs.

It should be considered different.

I don't want to see Meth, Herion, LSD, PCP, Ecstasy, or other horrible dangerously deadly duges treated the same or talked about the same way Pot is. Its not the same at all.

People don't smoke a joint then go on killing sprees, or Robbing Banks, or don't Rob Banks to pay for their weed habit. I think a real shift needs to take place in the way we teach our kids about Marijuana before we just Legalize the stuff.

The last thing I want is my daughter, when she's at a party, trying a joint, and thinking to herself "Hey, this ain't so bad, they've been lying to me about drugs. I wonder if Meth is also not so bad."

Huge Gigantic Difference and that needs taught and pushed First before we start making Pot Legal.

"Hey, I got high on pot last night, nothing bad happened, lets see what happens when I take this LCD."

Yeah, not good.

SteelCityMom
02-28-2009, 09:57 AM
I would like to see that statistics showing how many professional, productive people smoke pot. I am not going by "stereotypes", I am going by experience. No one I know that smokes pot (and yes, it is quite a few) are professional, productive people. I do know many that are in bands that are never going anywhere or are unemployed living at home thought.

While there is no real scientific study or survey done (or at least none that I can find) to compare the number of "successful" pot users and "lazy" pot users, there is no study that finds that the majority of pot users are unproductive, unsuccessful types of people.

One statistic I did find (yes it's on a NORML website, but I've not been able to find anything to counter this argument) was this:

"Enforcing marijuana prohibition costs taxpayers between $10 billion and $12 billion annually and has led to the arrest of nearly 20 million Americans. Nevertheless, nearly 100 million Americans acknowledge having used marijuana during their lives. It makes no sense to continue to treat nearly half of all Americans as criminals for their use of a substance that poses far fewer health risks than alcohol or tobacco. A better and more sensible solution would be to tax and regulate cannabis in a manner similar to alcohol and tobacco." http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7698

I doubt that every single one of those users are your stereotypical "stoner".

One person in particular that comes to mind is Irvin Rosenfeld. He is one of the 7 people still on the governments Compassionate Investigational New Drug Program and receives 11 cured ounces (1 cured ounce is about 40 joints) of government grown weed every 3 weeks...for 24 years (for a rare bone disorder). He is a successful stock broker working and living in South Florida.

SteelCityMom
02-28-2009, 10:01 AM
I think its wrong that we teach our kids that Marijuana is as bad as all other drugs.

It should be considered different.

I don't want to see Meth, Herion, LSD, PCP, Ecstasy, or other horrible dangerously deadly duges treated the same or talked about the same way Pot is. Its not the same at all.

People don't smoke a joint then go on killing sprees, or Robbing Banks, or don't Rob Banks to pay for their weed habit. I think a real shift needs to take place in the way we teach our kids about Marijuana before we just Legalize the stuff.

[b]The last thing I want is my daughter, when she's at a party, trying a joint, and thinking to herself "Hey, this ain't so bad, they've been lying to me about drugs. I wonder if Meth is also not so bad."[\b]

Huge Gigantic Difference and that needs taught and pushed First before we start making Pot Legal.

"Hey, I got high on pot last night, nothing bad happened, lets see what happens when I take this LCD."

Yeah, not good.

Most excellent points (especially the bolded statement), and I agree with you. Education about all drugs is very important, and it starts at home.

Hammer Of The GODS
02-28-2009, 10:40 AM
Personally,

I think medical marijuana is a crock.

If they want to LEGALIZE smoking pot, put it before the voters to legalize it.

But this is nothing but an excuse.

I know a number of people around here that have or are trying to get a card. Only ONE of them has a legitimate reason, and that person could get as much relief with other medicine, but just wanted to do it through pot instead of 2 or 3 pills. The rest? Well, "When I smoke pot, I don't argue as much, I am more calm."

yeah, great argument.

And yeah, that is about the logic that is used to get the card, and they DO get them.

It is a dishonest way to flirt the laws. Either be honest and repel the law, or stick with it.

Who the EFF are you to tell me that I should take a pill with a list of side effects that include liver damage, and kidney failure when an ALL NATURAL alternative is available? Get off your high horse! How dare you? You sir have effectively just removed any respect I had for you by your stance. Your stance on religion is the polar oposite of mine but I could still respect your opinion because it was an arguement on a BELIEF system and has NO bearing on my well being. However, when you start telling me what drugs I should and shouldn't use based on your opinions about a drug that you "believe" is evil , well I draw the line. There are people suffering out there from ailments that you are lucky enough not to have. Who the hell are you to say they must continue to suffer because you don't approve of the drug that gives them relief! I'm sure given your religious beliefs that you are against stem cell research as well? People like you sicken me with your holier than thou do as I do attitude! Go have another glass of wine because THAT drug is sanctioned by the bible! HYPOCRITE!

I would like to see that statistics showing how many professional, productive people smoke pot. I am not going by "stereotypes", I am going by experience. No one I know that smokes pot (and yes, it is quite a few) are professional, productive people. I do know many that are in bands that are never going anywhere or are unemployed living at home thought.

PIGEONHOLE much? This statement is a little less ridiculous than preachers but ridiculous nonetheless. Ignorance is truly bliss. Normally I would say that my lifestyle is none of your bussiness but for the sake of this arguement I will give you an insight to my life and how WELL I am living it. I AM A POT SMOKER! I use it for medicinal AND recreational use. It HAS NOT been a gateway drug. I DO NOT use other "illegal" drugs. I have been smoking since I left the Marines. I used it ALL THROUGH college while maintaining a 4.0 average. I even smoked minutes before taking final exams that I aced while some of the "sober" people failed! I have friends and neighbors that have NO IDEA that I smoke (sound familiar?). I live in a $300k home, make over $120k a year and I am involved in multiple charities. I also employ 3 people in my small company. I am not bragging, I am only trying to convey to you how ignorant your statements are. Just because YOU don't know something doesn't mean it isn't true.

I served my country with honor and diligence and if I want to smoke a joint to relieve the pain of my battle wounds then I WILL!

The government that makes pot illegal is the same government that is effectively ruining everything they touch. We are going backwards financially and there is no end in sight. So forgive me if I don't let the government dictate my health and well being.

Here is an idea..... start focusing on your OWN life and quit trying to tell the rest of us how to live.

MACH1
02-28-2009, 11:17 AM
At least you can't OD and die from maryj.

AllD
02-28-2009, 11:30 AM
The biggest problem is that use of medicinal pot will probably curb the use of prescribed pain killers.

That does not sit well with the big drug companies and their lobbyists. But what have they done for me lately?

SC Steeler Steve
02-28-2009, 11:31 AM
Well, the other drugs mentioned will most likely never be legalized, at least in any of our lifetimes. The most we would ever see would be decriminalization, and even though I'm for it, I highly doubt it.

The unemployment rate would not suddenly skyrocket if marijuana were legalized. There is already a large number of employed people who use marijuana. It's not like if you legalized it all of the sudden everybody who doesn't choose to do it now is going to run out and do it daily just because they can.

This is a very irrational view on the subject. There are very productive, professional people who smoke pot.

I agree...

SC Steeler Steve
02-28-2009, 11:39 AM
I have always been for legalizing marijuana. I would much rather know one of my kids smoked weed than drinks alcohol.. JMO. Of the BIG THREE (tabacco, alcohol, marijuana) I definitly believe LEGAL marijuana would cause the least problems in our society. And its the only one that is not legal... Go figure.

SteelCityMom
02-28-2009, 11:57 AM
The biggest problem is that use of medicinal pot will probably curb the use of prescribed pain killers.

That does not sit well with the big drug companies and their lobbyists. But what have they done for me lately?

Yes that is one of the main reasons for sure.

For you, or anyone else interested, here is an article that outlines the various reasons as to why marijuana was made illegal and demonized, and also goes into the various uses and benefits of hemp and marijuana.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/marijuana1.htm

T&B fan
02-28-2009, 12:35 PM
Yes that is one of the main reasons for sure.

For you, or anyone else interested, here is an article that outlines the various reasons as to why marijuana was made illegal and demonized, and also goes into the various uses and benefits of hemp and marijuana.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/marijuana1.htm


:thumbsup: now thats a great LInk :thumbsup:

X-Terminator
02-28-2009, 12:49 PM
I would like to see that statistics showing how many professional, productive people smoke pot. I am not going by "stereotypes", I am going by experience. No one I know that smokes pot (and yes, it is quite a few) are professional, productive people. I do know many that are in bands that are never going anywhere or are unemployed living at home thought.

I don't know them, per se, but a couple friends of a friend of mine smoke pot regularly, and one's a successful teacher and the other works for a video game company. Obviously Hammer of the Gods is another one, and there is another on this board who used to smoke the Mary Jane and turned out to have a pretty successful career. :wink02: So there are many more out there than you think.

HometownGal
02-28-2009, 05:07 PM
and there is another on this board who used to smoke the Mary Jane and turned out to have a pretty successful career. :wink02: So there are many more out there than you think.

:couch: :chuckle: :thumbsup:

tony hipchest
02-28-2009, 05:31 PM
I would like to see that statistics showing how many professional, productive people smoke pot. I am not going by "stereotypes", I am going by experience. No one I know that smokes pot (and yes, it is quite a few) are professional, productive people. I do know many that are in bands that are never going anywhere or are unemployed living at home thought.so in other words, alls you really got is your own personal life experience and clinging to lock-in-step republican stances?

just cause you vote republican dont make you right. and this is the biggest problem i have with being a republican. too predudiced, too quick to cling to stereotypes, inflexible, and to convinced what the GOP has fed down their throats the past 100 years is ALWAYS right.

cig, alcohol, drug co.s and the poeple in govt they had in their pockets is the only reason marijuana is stigmatized and illegal.

all the "gateway drug" bs you believe is just propoganda (and you bought in, hook, line, and sinker).

devilsdancefloor
02-28-2009, 06:03 PM
so in other words, alls you really got is your own personal life experience and clinging to lock-in-step republican stances?

just cause you vote republican dont make you right. and this is the biggest problem i have with being a republican. too predudiced, too quick to cling to stereotypes, inflexible, and to convinced what the GOP has fed down their throats the past 100 years is ALWAYS right.cig, alcohol, drug co.s and the poeple in govt they had in their pockets is the only reason marijuana is stigmatized and illegal.

all the "gateway drug" bs you believe is just propoganda (and you bought in, hook, line, and sinker).

lol come on man the same can be said about the dems ever since FDR. I for one dont care either way about pot. I thkn there are many many "legal" drugs that are more harmful and far more addicting.

tony hipchest
02-28-2009, 06:35 PM
lol come on man the same can be said about the dems ever since FDR.youve convinced me! :thumbsup:

im off to register as a republican :drink:

tony hipchest
02-28-2009, 07:05 PM
so let me get this straight....

HTG was in a garage band and addicted to cheetos?

:confused:

MasterOfPuppets
02-28-2009, 07:35 PM
i don't ever recall eatin a cheeto while i was rockin the gange......i don't like cheetos...:popcorn:

devilsdancefloor
02-28-2009, 08:36 PM
youve convinced me! :thumbsup:

im off to register as a republican :drink:


sorry no room for ya :flap: :wink02:

devilsdancefloor
02-28-2009, 08:37 PM
i don't ever recall eatin a cheeto while i was rockin the gange......i don't like cheetos...:popcorn:

more like pudding .....

tony hipchest
02-28-2009, 08:41 PM
sorry no room for ya :flap: :wink02::laughing:

shucks. whatever will i do with all my newfound prejudices?

devilsdancefloor
02-28-2009, 08:45 PM
:laughing:

shucks. whatever will i do with all my newfound prejudices?

talk radio?:noidea:

silver & black
03-01-2009, 08:54 AM
I'm all for legalizing it, with one stipulation...... it is treated just like alcohol. It is overseen by the state and taxed just like alcohol. The same consequences for operating ANY vehicle under the influence of alcohol, are applied to pot.

T&B fan
03-01-2009, 10:31 AM
I'm all for legalizing it, with one stipulation...... it is treated just like alcohol. It is overseen by the state and taxed just like alcohol. The same consequences for operating ANY vehicle under the influence of alcohol, are applied to pot.

ok lets not go in to the taxing . as it has been said before ... now for operating any vehicle how do you test for it . pot will show up in a piss test going back 30+ days .I don't know of any test for short term testing ..
we are on the same page ,I don't want stoners driveing ether ..

Preacher
03-01-2009, 10:52 AM
all the "gateway drug" bs you believe is just propoganda (and you bought in, hook, line, and sinker).


Once again,

Come live in my world for a year and see just how much "propaganda" it really is.

You may be able to isolate yourself away from the serious profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityf ilter and their stories. But it is there, and NO ONE I have EVER spoken to went straight to the hard stuff. Or even made the jump from prescription abuse over to illegal drugs, without pot being the transition.

Believe what you want, I will believe the continual stories I hear from people who have actually walked the path (and many sadly, have walked into jail because of it).

SteelCityMom
03-01-2009, 10:55 AM
ok lets not go in to the taxing . as it has been said before ... now for operating any vehicle how do you test for it . pot will show up in a piss test going back 30+ days .I don't know of any test for short term testing ..
we are on the same page ,I don't want stoners driveing ether ..

There are developments for breathalyzers that can detect the use of cocaine and marijuana.

U.S. Plans Breathalyzer-Like Drug Test for Drivers

19 Nov 2002 20:53 GMT
By Laura MacInnis

New Marijuana Roadside Test Now Out

Return Back To Main Medical Page

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Roadside drug tests modeled after breathalyzers
are nearly ready for use in the United States, helping police identify
drivers impaired by illegal substances, officials said on Tuesday.

National Drug Control Policy Director John Walters said the cheap,
on-the-spot tests would hasten the arrest of those driving under the
influence of illegal drugs like marijuana or cocaine, as well as
alcohol.

"Soon officers will have the ability to positively identify someone who
is endangering others' lives on the road," he told a news briefing at the
National Drug Control Policy office. "This is not something we are
powerless to do something about."

Walters said the drug tests were in the last stages of trials, but he
declined to say when the new devices would be deployed. Similar
technology has also been used in pilot tests in Britain and continental Europe.

Critics of America's so-called "war on drugs" said the new tests could
spur an abuse of power by authorities aiming to crack down on recreational
drug users.

"The way I understand it, if you have any evidence of the drug in your
system you are presumed to be the equivalent of a drunk driver," said
Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance in
Washington.

"We're not talking about a three or four hour window. A urine or blood
test could show marijuana if you smoked a joint 10 days ago."

While he backed the campaign against impaired driving, Nadelmann said
roadside drug tests would require lawmakers to agree on a minimum
intoxication level, below which individuals would be free to go.

"Treat marijuana and other drugs the way we treat alcohol. Test for
real impairment. Test for whether people are under the influence," he said.

Nevada resident Gary Thompson, whose wife Sandy was killed at a
stoplight by a driver high on marijuana, said strict tests were needed to curb the
social acceptability of drugged driving, particularly among young people.

"We don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes, but we
do care what they do on our roads," he told the news briefing.

"We have to make it possible to prosecute violators after innocent people die."

http://www.onlinepot.org/medical/breathalizer.htm

I'm not sure whether or not these devices have been implemented yet (I've never heard of them), but a simple blood or urine test can determine the drug content of a persons blood.

T&B fan
03-01-2009, 11:01 AM
thanks for that info SteelCityMom , you have had alot of good info on this ...:thumbsup:

silver & black
03-01-2009, 11:02 AM
ok lets not go in to the taxing . as it has been said before ... now for operating any vehicle how do you test for it . pot will show up in a piss test going back 30+ days .I don't know of any test for short term testing ..
we are on the same page ,I don't want stoners driveing ether ..

I don't have an answer for that. I just know I don't want people driving under the influence of it. Commen sense would suggest that if a person is pulled over for driving irradically, and they appear to be under the influence of something, and breath and blood tests prove no alchol is in their system, but they test positive for pot...from 30 days ago or whatever... that they were more than likely under the influence of pot.

Untill there is a test that can determin weather or not a person is using marijuana at the time of a traffic violation, it should probably remain illegal. I know that doesn't set well with all of the pot advocates, but thats how I feel about it.

SteelCityMom
03-01-2009, 11:08 AM
Once again,

Come live in my world for a year and see just how much "propaganda" it really is.

You may be able to isolate yourself away from the serious profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityf ilter and their stories. But it is there, and NO ONE I have EVER spoken to went straight to the hard stuff. Or even made the jump from prescription abuse over to illegal drugs, without pot being the transition.

Believe what you want, I will believe the continual stories I hear from people who have actually walked the path (and many sadly, have walked into jail because of it).

There is also no proof that every person who smokes pot is going to end up using harder drugs. I'm living proof, and actually, I tried cigarettes and alcohol before I even tried pot, and those are quite legal. Many of my friends throughout high school and college were the same way, only one of them went on to have a serious drug problem (heroin) and that was because she had major issues. Also, pot was not the transition for her (though she did smoke), but alcohol were her major problem before that. She'd take drinking over smoking any day before she started doing heroin.

Yes, almost every hard drug user has done pot, but not every pot user does hard drugs. Just like almost every hard drug user has/does drink/smoke cigs, not every person who drinks or smoke cigs does hard drugs. The people who move on and do harder drugs are people with serious personal issues, much deeper than just "wanting to relax" at the end of the day.

SteelCityMom
03-01-2009, 11:18 AM
I don't have an answer for that. I just know I don't want people driving under the influence of it. Commen sense would suggest that if a person is pulled over for driving irradically, and they appear to be under the influence of something, and breath and blood tests prove no alchol is in their system, but they test positive for pot...from 30 days ago or whatever... that they were more than likely under the influence of pot.

Untill there is a test that can determin weather or not a person is using marijuana at the time of a traffic violation, it should probably remain illegal. I know that doesn't set well with all of the pot advocates, but thats how I feel about it.

The blood test can tell whether or not you have been smoking recently, as marijuana only stays in the blood stream for a few hours or so. That's why when you get tested for a job or probation, it's a piss test, that detects use up to a month or more.

I think what they would need to do (as stated in the article above) is determine a limit like they have with alcohol and then figure out how to test for that.

MACH1
03-01-2009, 11:26 AM
The blood test can tell whether or not you have been smoking recently, as marijuana only stays in the blood stream for a few hours or so. That's why when you get tested for a job or probation, it's a piss test, that detects use up to a month or more.

I think what they would need to do (as stated in the article above) is determine a limit like they have with alcohol and then figure out how to test for that.

They can also take a hair sample and test it. The longer the hair the farther back in time they can go, to see what you've taken.

SteelShooter
03-01-2009, 12:04 PM
In response/support to Silver & Black and SteelCityMom;

Here's more of the same thoughts to ponder:

How do you measure the deciding point of whether a person has used and is still functional or whether they are still hampered to the point of not being able to safely operate a vehicle? This (THC) cannot be measured in levels the same as BAC when considering alcohol use. DId they use last night and are fine bcause they have "come down?" Or are they still riding the wave at 45 mph down a 70mph highway and will not notice the next red light which may completely wipe out the Mother, Father and two young children when he T-bones them at the intersection?
Personally, even though I did my own experimentation at an earlier age, I do NOT want a user standing behind me with a loaded weapon before I breach a defended building.
What aout the cop who has to make the decision to discharge his weapon at that teenager in less than a second? Is that a weapon? or is it a car alarm remote? Do I take him in or end his existence? Could you make that decision if hampered? ...all I can say is that I do not have faith that I could.

We must have a means to measure and manage prior to legalization.

.......just my humble two cents.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-01-2009, 02:01 PM
I still think this will start a domino effect:

Alcohol was illegal, now it isn't. Why shouldn't pot be legal too?

Pot was illegal, now it isn't. Why shouldn't cocaine be legal too?

etc, etc.

Oh, and LMAO at saying weed is good for you because it is "natural". There are plenty of "all natural" substances that are very bad for you.

Also, if it is legalized do you still think you will be smoking the same wholesome, all natural plant you are now? Spare me. Once it is legal, much like tobacco, companies will put all sorts of crap in it to make users more dependent so they are assured return customers.

silver & black
03-01-2009, 02:31 PM
Are you talking about a cop smoking dope before the job? Even if they legalized pot, I doubt that the men in blue would be aloud to smoke up. Regardless, this thread can go 362 pages and not one person will change their mind, or beliefs about the subject at hand.

If it is legal, why would they not be allowed to smoke up on their own time? They are allowed to partake of alcohol while on their own time.

tony hipchest
03-01-2009, 02:31 PM
I still think this will start a domino effect:

Alcohol was illegal, now it isn't. Why shouldn't pot be legal too?

Pot was illegal, now it isn't. Why shouldn't cocaine be legal too?

etc, etc.

Oh, and LMAO at saying weed is good for you because it is "natural". There are plenty of "all natural" substances that are very bad for you.


so you would agree that tobacco and alcohol should be illegal to combat the domino effect it has created?

Also, if it is legalized do you still think you will be smoking the same wholesome, all natural plant you are now? Spare me. Once it is legal, much like tobacco, companies will put all sorts of crap in it to make users more dependent so they are assured return customers.

no... spare ME.

everything in this statement is 100% false w/o a shred of evidence to support it. pot is not physically addictive.

silver & black
03-01-2009, 02:32 PM
In response/support to Silver & Black and SteelCityMom;

Here's more of the same thoughts to ponder:

How do you measure the deciding point of whether a person has used and is still functional or whether they are still hampered to the point of not being able to safely operate a vehicle? This (THC) cannot be measured in levels the same as BAC when considering alcohol use. DId they use last night and are fine bcause they have "come down?" Or are they still riding the wave at 45 mph down a 70mph highway and will not notice the next red light which may completely wipe out the Mother, Father and two young children when he T-bones them at the intersection?
Personally, even though I did my own experimentation at an earlier age, I do NOT want a user standing behind me with a loaded weapon before I breach a defended building.
What aout the cop who has to make the decision to discharge his weapon at that teenager in less than a second? Is that a weapon? or is it a car alarm remote? Do I take him in or end his existence? Could you make that decision if hampered? ...all I can say is that I do not have faith that I could.

We must have a means to measure and manage prior to legalization.

.......just my humble two cents.
Agreed.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-01-2009, 02:38 PM
so you would agree that tobacco and alcohol should be illegal to combat the domino effect it has created?
Done is done as far as alcohol and tobacco, but you do see where this could open a can of worms don't you?



everything in this statement is 100% false w/o a shred of evidence to support it. pot is not physically addictive. You really don't think that when marijuana is grown by big corporations and not in someones private grow house, that they won't put additives into it to make it addictive? Is the tobacco we smoke now not more dangerous and more addictive than they plant our ancestors smoked?


Also, you guys blew my Taco Bell and Cheeotos statement out of proportion, that was supposed to get some giggles. If you re-read my post I am against the legalization of pot because it means more government involvement and thus a bigger government.

tony hipchest
03-01-2009, 03:11 PM
Done is done as far as alcohol and tobacco, but you do see where this could open a can of worms don't you?



You really don't think that when marijuana is grown by big corporations and not in someones private grow house, that they won't put additives into it to make it addictive? Is the tobacco we smoke now not more dangerous and more addictive than they plant our ancestors smoked?


Also, you guys blew my Taco Bell and Cheeotos statement out of proportion, that was supposed to get some giggles. If you re-read my post I am against the legalization of pot because it means more government involvement and thus a bigger government.didnt the invention of the car, space travel, and internet lead to more and bigger government? are those all bad things?

anyways, i think pot smokers are too anal and particular with their herbs and in no way would buy some non natural bs that was tampered with or artificially enhanced.

if they were purchasing it from a company it would be for quality and having it pre-packaged and ready for consumption.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-01-2009, 03:12 PM
If you're comparring pot to cocaine then lost all credibility on this subject. The argument isn't weed is good for you because it's natural, it's not bad for you because no one has died from it! Nobody has gotten so high they want on a rage, starting fights and killing people. What is the big difference between xanex, pircocets, valium, and pot? You can OD, die, and become chemically dependent on all the legal stuff. The only difference is your told pot is illegal so it must be EVIL.

Re-read what I wrote. I didn't compare cocaine to pot, but coke heads will and they will want the legislation to change so they can legally support their habit. Again, the reasons I don't support legalization aren't because pot is "evil", but because legalizing it will require a bigger government to control it, more money out of my pocket to set that up, and will open a can of worms for all other recreational drug users.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-01-2009, 03:14 PM
I would say the car, the internet, and space travel are all more important to humanity than the legalization of pot. Though I know many will disagree.

silver & black
03-01-2009, 04:55 PM
Same reason they can't come in with booze in their system, even if they drank it off duty.

And we all know that never happens... right? :wink02:

MasterOfPuppets
03-01-2009, 05:17 PM
They can want cows to fly, doesn't mean that we have to make it happen. The government controlling the taxation of pot is the least of our government control issues right now. can you imagine driving down the road and having a pile of cow shit hit your windshield ? :doh:

SteelCityMom
03-01-2009, 05:30 PM
Done is done as far as alcohol and tobacco, but you do see where this could open a can of worms don't you?



You really don't think that when marijuana is grown by big corporations and not in someones private grow house, that they won't put additives into it to make it addictive? Is the tobacco we smoke now not more dangerous and more addictive than they plant our ancestors smoked?


They wouldn't need to put additives into it though, people have been smoking pot grown straight from the ground for centuries now without any additives and enjoy it just fine, just like the government hasn't felt the need to put anything extra in alcohol to make it more addictive ya know.

The reason that nicotine was added to tobacco was because tobacco by itself does nothing to give you buzz/get you high, so they had to add something to it to attract people to it. Pot sells itself lol.

I also don't agree that it would open up a can of worms. I really, really doubt that if they ever do legalize pot, that all of a sudden coke heads, heroin add.icts and meth heads are suddenly going to surface and say "hey, can we get our drug of choice legalized too?" Well ok, a few might...but nobody would back them.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-01-2009, 05:55 PM
Why wouldn't anyone back them though? It is the same argument. It was illegal, now it isn't, why is (insert illegal substance of choice) still illegal?

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-01-2009, 06:03 PM
Also, tobacco was smoked in the Americas by Indians and by European settlers for God know how long before it was bred to contain more nicotine.

The "Y1" strain of tobacco was bread to contain higher amounts of nicotine, and then nicotine and other additives were used to make it more addicted.

The same things will surely happen to weed once it is grown by large companies.

AllD
03-01-2009, 06:08 PM
Maybe they should put nicotine in pot?

AllD
03-01-2009, 06:11 PM
ok lets not go in to the taxing . as it has been said before ... now for operating any vehicle how do you test for it . pot will show up in a piss test going back 30+ days .I don't know of any test for short term testing ..
we are on the same page ,I don't want stoners driveing ether ..


Didn't you ever see a Cheech & Chong movie? If you open the car window and a cloud of reefer smoke rolls out, then most likely there will be an issue, man.

SteelCityMom
03-01-2009, 06:44 PM
Why wouldn't anyone back them though? It is the same argument. It was illegal, now it isn't, why is (insert illegal substance of choice) still illegal?

All I have to say to this is, there's a reason there's never been a "legalize coke, etc. etc." movement.

SteelCityMom
03-01-2009, 06:52 PM
Also, tobacco was smoked in the Americas by Indians and by European settlers for God know how long before it was bred to contain more nicotine.

The "Y1" strain of tobacco was bread to contain higher amounts of nicotine, and then nicotine and other additives were used to make it more addicted.

The same things will surely happen to weed once it is grown by large companies.

And again, there's no reason they would have to do that with pot, just like there was never a need to add anything to alcohol other than the ingredients it already contained. They sell themselves.

I understand your concern about this, and I myself would much prefer they legalized it for people to grow for their own personal use, but the government is going to want to make tax dollars off of it and being able to conveniently buy what one would have to put the time of growing and culturing themselves is more attractive. It's just like how most people would rather just buy their beer or alcohol at a store rather than have to make it themselves. Yet there is no difference in ingredients from what you would buy at a store to what you would make at home, there doesn't need to be.

Hammer Of The GODS
03-01-2009, 08:05 PM
Once again,

Come live in my world for a year and see just how much "propaganda" it really is.

You may be able to isolate yourself away from the serious profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityf ilter and their stories. But it is there, and NO ONE I have EVER spoken to went straight to the hard stuff. Or even made the jump from prescription abuse over to illegal drugs, without pot being the transition.

Believe what you want, I will believe the continual stories I hear from people who have actually walked the path (and many sadly, have walked into jail because of it).


Don't you realize that the GOVERNMENT is the creator of this so called gateway?

If a person wants a little pot they must go to a "dealer" to get some. Now if the dealer is selling pot there is a good chance he'll have something a lot more addictive to get and maintain a customer base. Why wouldn't he "push" his other products? Therein lies the gateway!

Wake up and get some perspective please! Legalization takes away the "gateway"!

Come on you of all people should know the power of temptation!



Re-read what I wrote. I didn't compare cocaine to pot, but coke heads will and they will want the legislation to change so they can legally support their habit. Again, the reasons I don't support legalization aren't because pot is "evil", but because legalizing it will require a bigger government to control it, more money out of my pocket to set that up, and will open a can of worms for all other recreational drug users.

Almost everything you've posted about this subject is talk right out of your arse!

1st. the "can of worms" you peak of is just another hollow arguement for not legalizing. To say that coke and heroin users would come out and want those drugs legalized as an arguement is retarded! Just because someone wants coke legalized because pot is legal doesn't mean that it will inevitably become legal! Reason it won't be a problem is that pot IS NOT chemically addictive like coke and heroin and is the chief reason your arguement holds no water. There would be almost NO public pressure to legalize addictive drugs therefore no threat of it's "real" legalization. Just a lame arguement!

2nd. Bigger Government ? Are you effing serious? Another retarded arguement! Do you have ANY idea how much the government spends on keeping pot illegal and enforcing the laws to do so? WOW! People like you who just spout off stupid statements without ANY reasearch to validate your arguement just makes you look foolish. I'm not going to do it for you either! Go do some research on how much money is spent on the war on marijuana! Just the amount of people in prison for possession is astronomical! How much tax dollars are spent to keep them incarcerated huh? Not to mention the amount of REAL criminals who are released early in order to make room for potheads!



Please educate yourself on the truth! I respect an inteligent arguement but so far the "non-potheads/keep it illegal" crowd is so far lacking in that regard.

T&B fan
03-01-2009, 08:52 PM
Didn't you ever see a Cheech & Chong movie? If you open the car window and a cloud of reefer smoke rolls out, then most likely there will be an issue, man.

yes I have and it is funny as hell .. :rofl:

MasterOfPuppets
03-01-2009, 09:46 PM
Don't you realize that the GOVERNMENT is the creator of this so called gateway?

2nd. Bigger Government ? Are you effing serious? Another retarded arguement! Do you have ANY idea how much the government spends on keeping pot illegal and enforcing the laws to do so? WOW! People like you who just spout off stupid statements without ANY reasearch to validate your arguement just makes you look foolish. I'm not going to do it for you either! Go do some research on how much money is spent on the war on marijuana! Just the amount of people in prison for possession is astronomical! How much tax dollars are spent to keep them incarcerated huh? Not to mention the amount of REAL criminals who are released early in order to make room for potheads!

Please educate yourself on the truth! I respect an inteligent arguement but so far the "non-potheads/keep it illegal" crowd is so far lacking in that regard.
] Of the related drug arrests, about 225,000 are for possession of marijuana, the fourth most common cause of arrest in the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs

The cost to put a single drug dealer in jail is about $450,000, composed of the following:

The cost for arrest and conviction is about $150,000.

The cost for an additional prison bed is about $50,000 to $150,000, depending upon the jurisdiction.

It costs about $30,000 per year to house a prisoner. With an average sentence of 5 years, that adds up to another $150,000.

The same $450,000 can provide treatment or education for about 200 people. In addition, putting a person in prison produces about fifteen dollars in related welfare costs, for every dollar spent on incarceration. Every dollar spent on treatment and education saves about five dollars in related welfare costs.
http://forums.steelersfever.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=573081

Historically speaking, the biggest single cause of drug epidemics among US children has been anti-drug campaigns.http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/LIBRARY/epidemic_cause.htm

The U.S. federal government spent over $19 billion dollars in 2003 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $600 per second. The budget has since been increased by over a billion dollars.

The report estimates that legalizing drugs would save roughly $44.1 billion per year in
government expenditure on enforcement of prohibition. $30.3 billion of this savings
would accrue to state and local governments, while $13.8 billion would accrue to the
federal government. Approximately $12.9 billion of the savings would results fromlegalization of marijuana, $19.3 billion from legalization of cocaine and heroin, and
$11.6 from legalization of other drugs.
• The report also estimates that drug legalization would yield tax revenue of $32.7 billion
annually, assuming legal drugs are taxed at rates comparable to those on alcohol and
tobacco. Approximately $6.7 of this revenue would result from legalization ofmarijuana, $22.5 billion from legalization of cocaine and heroin, and $3.5 from
legalization of other drugs.
http://leap.cc/dia/miron-economic-report.pdf
basically legalizing mary j would PAY for the war on the actual harmful drugs, plus save taxpayers billions by not legally pursuing people who prefer mary j , over the governments drug of choice....alchohol.

follow this link ,and litterally watch your tax dollars being pissed away....:mad:
http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

Hammer Of The GODS
03-01-2009, 10:13 PM
WHOA THERE MASTER !


Facts and figures? WTF? You gotta lotta balls bringing actual facts into this conversation!


:chuckle:

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-01-2009, 10:21 PM
Almost everything you've posted about this subject is talk right out of your arse! Everyone is talking out of their ass here. Everything we are saying is hypothetical.

1st. the "can of worms" you peak of is just another hollow arguement for not legalizing. To say that coke and heroin users would come out and want those drugs legalized as an arguement is retarded! Just because someone wants coke legalized because pot is legal doesn't mean that it will inevitably become legal! Reason it won't be a problem is that pot IS NOT chemically addictive like coke and heroin and is the chief reason your arguement holds no water. There would be almost NO public pressure to legalize addictive drugs therefore no threat of it's "real" legalization. Just a lame arguement! Pot isn't chemically addictive, but I'll be damned if it isn't psychologically addictive. You saying it is a "lame" or "hollow" argument doesn't make it so. It isn't so hard to comprehend is it? It is the argument that pot users are already using

2nd. Bigger Government ? Are you effing serious? Another retarded arguement! Do you have ANY idea how much the government spends on keeping pot illegal and enforcing the laws to do so? WOW! People like you who just spout off stupid statements without ANY reasearch to validate your arguement just makes you look foolish. I'm not going to do it for you either! Go do some research on how much money is spent on the war on marijuana! Just the amount of people in prison for possession is astronomical! How much tax dollars are spent to keep them incarcerated huh? Not to mention the amount of REAL criminals who are released early in order to make room for potheads!


Please educate yourself on the truth! I respect an inteligent arguement but so far the "non-potheads/keep it illegal" crowd is so far lacking in that regard.[/SIZE] Aren't most people caught in possession of pot just given a misdemeanor? It is mostly the dealers who go to jail. Like previously stated these dealers aren't just selling weed. Do we know what it would cost to put everything in place to legalize it?

You get really pissy when someone opposes your view on pot don't you.

MasterOfPuppets
03-01-2009, 10:22 PM
WHOA THERE MASTER !


Facts and figures? WTF? You gotta lotta balls bringing actual facts into this conversation!


:chuckle:according to this article 700,000 people was arrested and incarcerated in 2007 most for possession alone !!!......multiply that by the $ 150,000 figure.....:doh:
n addition, approximately 700,000 people were incarcerated on marijuana-related charges in 2007, and of those, 90 percent were just for possession, not trafficking or sale

http://media.www.themountaineeronline.com/media/storage/paper886/news/2008/11/18/Opinion/Marijuana.Should.Be.Dicriminalized-3550342.shtml

SteelCityMom
03-02-2009, 12:06 AM
basically legalizing mary j would PAY for the war on the actual harmful drugs, plus save taxpayers billions by not legally pursuing people who prefer mary j , over the governments drug of choice....alchohol.

follow this link ,and litterally watch your tax dollars being pissed away....:mad:
http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

Thank you for taking the time to find all that info MOP...very useful figures and resource pages. Once I can get more than 10-20 minutes online at a time I'm going to look into them more.

MasterOfPuppets
03-02-2009, 12:24 AM
some food for thought

Legality

In his essay The Drug War and the Constitution,[17] Libertarian philosopher Paul Hager makes the case that the War on Drugs in the United States is an illegal form of prohibition, which violates the principles of a limited government embodied in the Constitution. Alcohol prohibition required amending the Constitution, because this was not a power granted to the federal government. Hager asserts if this is true, then marijuana prohibition should likewise require a Constitutional amendment.

Legal Vs. Illegal Drugs

Many have also stressed the inequality of certain drugs remaining illegal while others that are equally harmful are completely legal. Examples of this include both tobacco and alcohol being legal and with few inter-personal restrictions despite them both being extremely harmful on one's health, as well as both having the potential for abuse. Yet other drugs such as marijuana or psylocybin have little to no potential for abuse and the harmful effects being very debatable and unsubstantiated thus far.

Despite over $7 billion spent annually towards arresting[54] and prosecuting nearly 800,000 people across the country for marijuana offenses in 2005[citation needed](FBI Uniform Crime Reports), the federally-funded Monitoring the Future Survey reports about 85% of high school seniors find marijuana "easy to obtain." That figure has remained virtually unchanged since 1975, never dropping below 82.7% in three decades of national surveys.[55]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs

SteelCityMom
03-02-2009, 07:23 AM
Aren't most people caught in possession of pot just given a misdemeanor? It is mostly the dealers who go to jail. Like previously stated these dealers aren't just selling weed. Do we know what it would cost to put everything in place to legalize it?

Depends on what state you live in. We'll take a look at Alabama, since that is where your from and the strict marijuana laws there. Just remember, misdemeanor does not mean you can't do jail time.

"Possession of marijuana is a criminal, arrestable offense. For possession of an amount of one kilogram (2.2 lbs) or less, the crime is a Class A Misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail and a fine of up to $6,000. A second offense for minor marijuana possession becomes a Class C felony, carrying a possible penalty of not more than 10 years and not less than one year and one day, nor more than a $15,000 fine. For possession of any amount over one kilogram, the crime is a felony, punishable by 1 - 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $15,000.

The sale, cultivation or manufacture of marijuana is a felony offense. If the amount is one kilogram or less, the mandatory minimum sentence is three years in prison and a fine of up to $25,000. For an amount greater than one kilogram but less than 100 lbs, the sentence is a minimum of five years in prison and a fine of up to $50,000. For an amount up to 500 lbs, the sentence is a minimum of 15 years in prison and a fine of up to $200,000. Any amount of 1,000 lbs or greater is punishable by life without the possibility of parole.

The penalties for sale of marijuana are enhanced if the sale takes place within a three-mile radius of a school or public housing project, adding five years to the sentence for the sale. Sale to minors (under 18) can increase the penalty by 10 years to life in prison, and no suspension or probation can be granted to this sentence.

The possession or sale of drug paraphernalia is a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail and a fine of up to $2,000. If the paraphernalia is sold to a minor at least three years younger than the seller, the penalty becomes a felony and is punishable by 2 - 20 years in prison and a fine of up to $10,000.

Any conviction for possession, sale, manufacture or cultivation also results in the suspension of the offender's driver's license for a period of six months."

http://norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4521

Funny thing about the laws there, for a first offense for trafficking you can get 25 years to life. For a second offense, life is a mandatory minimum sentence. For trafficking weed.

Even here in PA, where the penalties are much more lax, a person caught possessing 30 grams or less of weed can still be punished by 30 days in jail and a $500 fine. More than 30 grams, you get a year and a $5000 fine, yet it is still a misdemeanor.

Other state laws can be found here : http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516

SteelCityMom
03-02-2009, 07:36 AM
Do we know what it would cost to put everything in place to legalize it?

It wouldn't cost a thing. The government and the taxpayers would actually benefit financially from it.

In California alone, pot is a $14 Billion/ year industry. If the growth and sale of it were to be taxed, that would be appox. a $1 Billion/year tax revenue for the state. That benefits everyone.

If you could find me something that states that it would cost more to legalize pot than to keep it illegal, I promise I'll change my mind on the issue forever.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-02-2009, 08:52 AM
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I would just like to know.

How can you know that $14 Billion/year is spent on pot? Since it is an illegal product, I highly doubt it is easy to find out how much is sold. Also, once it is legal I doubt it will be worth anywhere near as much as it is now.

I am just concerned with what it would cost to regulate it. The cost to develop and implement ways of testing and documenting how "high" someone can be legally.

I am also still concerned with the "can of worms" I spoke of, but I seem to be the only one that thinks that way.

We can see the government has done a superb job of regulating alcohol, don't see how they could screw this one up.

lilyoder6
03-02-2009, 08:55 AM
if weed is legalized then the there would be an increase of food being bought

Hammer Of The GODS
03-02-2009, 08:58 AM
Everyone is talking out of their ass here. Everything we are saying is hypothetical.

Pot isn't chemically addictive, but I'll be damned if it isn't psychologically addictive. You saying it is a "lame" or "hollow" argument doesn't make it so. It isn't so hard to comprehend is it? It is the argument that pot users are already using

Aren't most people caught in possession of pot just given a misdemeanor? It is mostly the dealers who go to jail. Like previously stated these dealers aren't just selling weed. Do we know what it would cost to put everything in place to legalize it?

You get really pissy when someone opposes your view on pot don't you.

I have said NOTHING as of yet that is hypothetical.

Fact. Pot has medicinal value.
Fact. Pot is NOT chemically addictive.
Fact. "Dealers" have more than just pot for sale.
Fact. It costs taxpayers a buttload of money to wage war on pot.

All you have done is spout off propeganda and heresay adopting it as your base of arguement.


Indeed pot is psychologically addictive. But so is FOOD!

Again the jails are full of people busted for "possession" look it up.


Pissy? No. I just get tired of argueing with people like you who base thier opinions on heresay and propaganda without ever actually finding out the truth. Then you propose to tell me how to live based on all that crap. So I will call it like I see it. You show no respect towards me when you use these lame arguements to make your point with me. So therefore I will show NO respect towards you when I speak to you.

Don't like it? Then PLEASE base your arguements on some simple facts. Master and Steelcitymom have given you some great examples of this. Stop spouting off rhetoric and maybe I'll show you some respect.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-02-2009, 11:07 AM
Right, so let me get this straight. Because I oppose you, I don't respect you...got it.

1)The same argument already mentioned many times in this thread is the same argument that will open the door for more dangerous drugs to become legal. The whole, "alcohol was illegal, now it isn't, why shouldn't pot be legal" secenario will be applied to more dangerous drugs when/if pot is legalized. PERIOD! If I am an the only one that sees this, there is nothing I can say that will change that.

2) As you said, dealers sell a lot more than just pot. Legalizing pot will just have these dealers pushing harder for their other drugs. It will do nothing to help combat the use of more dangerous drugs, but likely promote it.

3) Onces large companies are growing the weed, they will put additives in it to make it more addictive. They don't have to put additives in tobacco to make it have an effect. American Indians and settlers smoked tobacco long before chemical additives were introduced to make it more habit forming.

I also don't know what it would cost to create and implement a system/device to test how "how" someone is and how legalizing it would effect the number of people who drive under the influence of it.

Please don't take any disagreement as disrespect. As a soldier, you sacrificed for all of our ability to have the freedom to do so.

Call it rhetoric if you will, but since it isn't legalized and we haven't seen the effects of what legalizing it will do, everything we say is hypothetical.

SteelCityMom
03-02-2009, 11:47 AM
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I would just like to know.

How can you know that $14 Billion/year is spent on pot? Since it is an illegal product, I highly doubt it is easy to find out how much is sold. Also, once it is legal I doubt it will be worth anywhere near as much as it is now.

Ammiano says marijuana is California's largest cash crop.

"The marijuana industry probably nets in California alone $14 billion," Ammiano said.

The bill is also supported by state Board of Equalization chair Betty Yee. She says the taxes would be a windfall for the state.

"The revenue impact of this proposal we believe will generate over $1.3 billion," Yee said.

Part of that money would come from a $50 per ounce state excise tax on the drug - roughly $1 per joint, according to Ammiano. Sales tax revenue would make up the rest. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/state&id=6674064

These are just estimated figures, but they are not far off. They could even possibly be higher.

I am just concerned with what it would cost to regulate it. The cost to develop and implement ways of testing and documenting how "high" someone can be legally. Simple blood tests can determine the THC content of one's blood, and THC only stays in the blood stream for a short time (less than a day). I also posted an article earlier about roadside drug tests, much like alcohol tests. They are already being developed.

I am also still concerned with the "can of worms" I spoke of, but I seem to be the only one that thinks that way. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

We can see the government has done a superb job of regulating alcohol, don't see how they could screw this one up.

I for one am not wanting pot to be legalized just because alcohol was. While I do compare the two cases at times, to me they are separate issues as well. I for one am just tired of my tax dollars going to a "war on drugs" that does not work. Marijuana has been illegal since 1937, and despite the government throwing all the money it wants to at the situation, it hasn't stopped people from using. Obviously something is wrong with the approach that has been taken on the matter for decades now, and something needs to be changed.

T&B fan
03-02-2009, 04:11 PM
one of the resons pot will never be legalized . too many cops and other government jobs depend on fighting the so called war .the more you put in jail the bigger the revenues to the cops and the $$ are being pissed away .. when the law give the cops the right to take away your car , house , and any $$ you have that gives to much room for corruption .


war on drugs is the biggest bunch of :poop: yet. if you are going to have a War on something try to win it in less then 30+ years , but then again we have a lot of Wars on going, poverty , literacy , hunnger , not to say the biggest one right now terror ...hope the hell we win that one .

T&B fan
03-03-2009, 07:17 AM
I have said NOTHING as of yet that is hypothetical.

Fact. Pot has medicinal value.
Fact. Pot is NOT chemically addictive.
Fact. "Dealers" have more than just pot for sale.
Fact. It costs taxpayers a buttload of money to wage war on pot.

All you have done is spout off propeganda and heresay adopting it as your base of arguement.


Indeed pot is psychologically addictive. But so is FOOD!

Again the jails are full of people busted for "possession" look it up.


Pissy? No. I just get tired of argueing with people like you who base thier opinions on heresay and propaganda without ever actually finding out the truth. Then you propose to tell me how to live based on all that crap. So I will call it like I see it. You show no respect towards me when you use these lame arguements to make your point with me. So therefore I will show NO respect towards you when I speak to you.

Don't like it? Then PLEASE base your arguements on some simple facts. Master and Steelcitymom have given you some great examples of this. Stop spouting off rhetoric and maybe I'll show you some respect.


not all Dealers have other things for sale ... some do but not, all mine don't ,and he will not deal with any one how dose have other stuff..

lilyoder6
03-03-2009, 08:25 AM
1. so is sex.. better ban it!



actually, i do think that sex could be chemically addictive, as when u do get aroused, u release chemicals, and so fourth during sex

steelreserve
03-03-2009, 01:21 PM
Yeah, if they actually pass this into law (which I doubt), expect everyone's kitchen sink to suddenly start looking like this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3105/2585157615_94004aa65c.jpg?v=0

xfl2001fan
03-03-2009, 05:39 PM
that's just wrong Smokin...

tony hipchest
03-03-2009, 05:55 PM
:point:



http://carlnet.no-ip.org/drunk_passed_out.jpg



HEY! Its Preacher in seminary school! :sofunny:

:wink02: (j/k preach...)

SteelCityMom
03-03-2009, 06:48 PM
Oh wow...it's like a train wreck...I just can't stop staring LOL. I think they shaved part of his butt first too.