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Preacher
02-27-2009, 04:42 PM
Ok. Here is the info.

Ravens agree to 4-year, $28M deal with Foxworth




OWINGS MILLS, Md. (AP)—The Baltimore Ravens (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/bal/;_ylt=A2KIPHG4aahJa00ASwEdsLYF) have agreed to terms with former Atlanta Falcons (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/atl/;_ylt=A2KIPHG4aahJa00ATAEdsLYF) cornerback Domonique Foxworth (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7273/;_ylt=A2KIPHG4aahJa00ATQEdsLYF) on a four-year, $28 million contract that includes $16.5 million in guaranteed money.
The former Maryland player drafted by the Denver Broncos (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/den/;_ylt=A2KIPHG4aahJa00ATgEdsLYF) in the third round of the 2005 NFL draft will be introduced at a press conference at the Ravens’ training complex Friday afternoon.
Foxworth was traded to the Falcons for a seventh-round draft pick last year.
The 5-foot-11, 180-pounder has 211 career tackles and four interceptions. Meanwhile, the Ravens have cut veteran defensive end Marques Douglas (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5018/;_ylt=A2KIPHG4aahJa00ATwEdsLYF).
Earlier Friday, the Ravens lost free agent linebacker Bart Scott (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6165/;_ylt=A2KIPHG4aahJa00AUAEdsLYF) to the New York Jets (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nyj/).


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-ravens-foxworth&prov=ap&type=lgns


4 years, 28 Mill. 16.5 mill in guar. monies.

That breaks down to probably 4.5 mill the first year, up to probably 8.5 or so the last year in cap hit.

Now the question. Who is better, Foxworth or B-Mac? Fact is, Ravens seemed to skip right over B-Mac. So does he get a smaller contract than Foxworth?

If so, what could we offer him that he might accept? 5 years, 30 mill, 15 in guar. monies, backloaded? Make 10 of that a signing bonus for 2 mill a year cap hit, 20 mill split over 5 years in salary, 2.5 or so the first year and build to about 6 mill a year in 5 years, Even offer some achievement bonsus?

Seems the cap hit would be about 4.5 mill. That is still hurtful. But can it get done?

Like I said, I think the Foxworth signing may have just helped us.

steelerdave1969
02-27-2009, 04:47 PM
This may have helped the Steelers just like the Ravens letting LB's Bart Scott go to the Jets and letting Ray Lewis go as well would be just as sweet. The Cleveland Browns just traded away their best offensive weapon today, so that defintitely helps us as well. I just cant believe that the Bengals WR TJ Whosyourdaddy hasnt signed somewhere yet...

Preacher
02-27-2009, 04:48 PM
This may have helped the Steelers just like the Ravens letting LB's Bart Scott go to the Jets and letting Ray Lewis go as well would be just as sweet. The Cleveland Browns just traded away their best offensive weapon today, so that defintitely helps us as well. I just cant believe that the Bengals WR TJ Whosyourdaddy hasnt signed somewhere yet...

I think we are seeing the effects of the economy in the FA period now.

iceman000123
02-27-2009, 04:55 PM
This may have helped the Steelers just like the Ravens letting LB's Bart Scott go to the Jets and letting Ray Lewis go as well would be just as sweet. The Cleveland Browns just traded away their best offensive weapon today, so that defintitely helps us as well. I just cant believe that the Bengals WR TJ Whosyourdaddy hasnt signed somewhere yet...

All in know is... if we didn't have our division locked before we sure do now. I said earlier that I'm still interested in where T.J. is going my best guess is either with the G-Men or the Eagles

Preacher
02-27-2009, 05:08 PM
I just added our signing to the "Running Cap" thread and it seems we are probably about 2.6 mill under the cap now.

So no, I think we have lost Washington AND B-Mac.

steelreserve
02-27-2009, 05:25 PM
If so, what could we offer him that he might accept? 5 years, 30 mill, 15 in guar. monies, backloaded? Make 10 of that a signing bonus for 2 mill a year cap hit, 20 mill split over 5 years in salary, 2.5 or so the first year and build to about 6 mill a year in 5 years, Even offer some achievement bonsus?

I don't think we could offer him that. We could if we hadn't just wasted $15 million in cap room giving raises to our same shitty offensive line, but now we can't. Especially if we want to keep Harrison, Holmes and Miller.

Actually, out of those three guys and McFadden, now it's looking like two of them probably have to go. See ya later James, sorry we blew all our money on retards.

Preacher
02-27-2009, 05:43 PM
I don't think we could offer him that. We could if we hadn't just wasted $15 million in cap room giving raises to our same shitty offensive line, but now we can't. Especially if we want to keep Harrison, Holmes and Miller.

Actually, out of those three guys and McFadden, now it's looking like two of them probably have to go. See ya later James, sorry we blew all our money on retards.

Oh goodness.

SERIOUSLY.

So who DO you replace Kemo with? At what price? he took a DISCOUNT to come back to the Steelers. He will get paid about average or just below the average LT of TWO YEARS AGO. Do you get a WORSE player to fill in for him, and at a higher price?

How about LT?
Tackles

Franchised: Max Starks (Steelers, $8.451 million) became a starter because of injury last season and held down the crucial left tackle spot during Pittsburgh’s Super Bowl run.

Let the bidding begin: After some late signings and the tagging of Starks, the top free agent probably is versatile Stacy Andrews (Bengals), who is a gamble because he is recovering from a torn ACL. … Khalif Barnes (Jaguars) is only 26 and can play left tackle, but he’s not an elite pass blocker. … Donald Penn (Buccaneers) started all 16 games last season, is only 25 and is expected to receive the high restricted free agent tender.

The second tier: Both of Philadelphia’s veteran starters, Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan, are set to hit the market in their mid-30s. Runyan is coming off microfracture surgery. … Jon Stinchcomb (Saints) is a natural right tackle who has started 48 straight games. … Mark Tauscher (Packers) would have been headed to a payday had he not torn up his left knee in December. … Willie Colon (Steelers) is restricted.

On the street: Kwame Harris.

Do you want to risk the LT spot with ANY of them? And at what price? Starks is eating up 8 mill THIS YEAR. He signs a long term deal, and he eats up 3-5 mill. However, we don't have to go fishing, or trade VALUABE draft picks to move up for a desperation shot at LT in the draft.

I understand the frustration of what our line did.

But the availability of players, what they would cost, the hometown discount Kemo gave us, and the question marks surrounding LT makes me believe we have chosen the best possible road, sadly.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-27-2009, 05:54 PM
I hope Starks only eats up $8mil for this season and we draft William Beatty to play LT in 2010.

I would gladly have parted with Starks and instead lived with Tra Thomas for maybe 2 seasons at much less money. Maybe then we could have afforded Jason Brown instead of Kemo.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-27-2009, 05:55 PM
So no, I think we have lost Washington AND B-Mac.
Yeah, I would have rather lost Washington and Kemo.

Phoenixus
02-27-2009, 05:55 PM
Well honestly,

I hate to say this but... I think this is the first time I've ever seen the front office put the Steelers in cap jeopardy like this.

I am not so sure it's going to work out this time. But I also realize, they really are over a barrel on many things this time around.

Lets hope this works out.

steelreserve
02-27-2009, 06:34 PM
Oh goodness.

SERIOUSLY.

So who DO you replace Kemo with? At what price? he took a DISCOUNT to come back to the Steelers. He will get paid about average or just below the average LT of TWO YEARS AGO. Do you get a WORSE player to fill in for him, and at a higher price?

How about LT?


Do you want to risk the LT spot with ANY of them? And at what price? Starks is eating up 8 mill THIS YEAR. He signs a long term deal, and he eats up 3-5 mill. However, we don't have to go fishing, or trade VALUABE draft picks to move up for a desperation shot at LT in the draft.

Honestly? I'd be willing to take my chances with any of the guys you mentioned except Harris. Sure, they've all got their risks, but if you ask me, with Starks we have just as big a risk that he won't play well, for any reason or no reason at all. And he costs us a shitload more.

If Starks signed a deal at 3-5 million, I'd take that. Fine, we get an OK player for OK-player money. But he won't. He'll be demanding $6 million or $7 million. Screw that.

Kemo we could've replaced for sure in the draft. We draft a capable guard, he can start. We draft a capable tackle, Colon can move over. Even if the rookie isn't quite ready, we wouldn't run much risk of a drop-off at either position; the bar was set pretty low already.

I hate to say it, but I think the front office screwed the pooch this year. I mean really f***ed the dog. We came into the offseason saying the line was one of our biggest problems, and now not only have we not done anything to fix it, but we've completely handcuffed ourselves from doing anything to fix the problem. We've seriously hurt our ability even to re-sign our own free agents. We just spent $15 million on the line, added nobody new, and LOST two former OL starters.

We basically came into free agency in an extremely lucky position with no losses that were going to hurt us too badly, and we've gone and screwed things up so badly in the space of a little more than a week that we're now in a desperate situation. This definitely cost us the chance to re-sign McFadden. It might cost us Holmes, Harrison and Miller. It might even accelerate Foote out the door THIS year. I'd take any one of those players over these two bums. We completely shot ourselves in the foot with this garbage, and I only hope it doesn't hurt the team too badly in the long run.

lilyoder6
02-27-2009, 06:36 PM
Well honestly,

I hate to say this but... I think this is the first time I've ever seen the front office put the Steelers in cap jeopardy like this.



Lets hope this works out.

the steelers have been close to the cap in the past.. i haven't seen them with a lot of cap for a while now

steelreserve
02-27-2009, 06:43 PM
the steelers have been close to the cap in the past.. i haven't seen them with a lot of cap for a while now

We HAD the most cap room I'd seen in a while if we'd just walked away from certain guys who it wouldn't have hurt us to lose. I think we had well over $20 million in cap room before we panicked and signed Starks and Kemo to star-level deals. I honestly think we panicked; nothing more to it. Now we've voluntarily put ourselves in salary cap hell.

Preacher
02-27-2009, 07:18 PM
We HAD the most cap room I'd seen in a while if we'd just walked away from certain guys who it wouldn't have hurt us to lose. I think we had well over $20 million in cap room before we panicked and signed Starks and Kemo to star-level deals. I honestly think we panicked; nothing more to it. Now we've voluntarily put ourselves in salary cap hell.

Once again... Kemo signed for UNDER the AVERAGE VALUE of a LG... that being the average of 2 YEARS AGO.

Fact of the matter is, Simmons SUCKED. He had to leave. Something happened to him and he went downhill FAST. His blown achilles tendon is what finally gave the Steelers the push to put someone else in there, and Stapleton . . STAPLETON played better.

Starks sucks at RT. But don't transfer that over to LT. Go back and watch the games where he started at LT. It seems to be his natural position.

BTW, Smith . . . Sat out over a SEASON's worth of football over the last two years. He has had surgery, and looks to be going for more surgery (if not already) to fix the problem. how long to we waste money on a player past his prime?

No, the FO was absolutely right in letting both Simmons and Smith walk (well hobble is more accurate) away. We have a LG to develop at a cut-rate deal. We have a RT whom we have an overpriced, but 1 YEAR deal with which will not hurt us against the cap next year if and when we decide what we have to do there.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-27-2009, 07:49 PM
Rex Ryan is trying to help as much as possible. Over paying for Scott, I'm sure he will have more Raven signings shortly.

Titans helped bigtime, by resigning Collins. Lets see what he can do against a tougher schedule. My guess 8-8, maybe 9-7

iceman000123
02-27-2009, 08:44 PM
Once again... Kemo signed for UNDER the AVERAGE VALUE of a LG... that being the average of 2 YEARS AGO.

Fact of the matter is, Simmons SUCKED. He had to leave. Something happened to him and he went downhill FAST. His blown achilles tendon is what finally gave the Steelers the push to put someone else in there, and Stapleton . . STAPLETON played better.

Starks sucks at RT. But don't transfer that over to LT. Go back and watch the games where he started at LT. It seems to be his natural position.

BTW, Smith . . . Sat out over a SEASON's worth of football over the last two years. He has had surgery, and looks to be going for more surgery (if not already) to fix the problem. how long to we waste money on a player past his prime?

No, the FO was absolutely right in letting both Simmons and Smith walk (well hobble is more accurate) away. We have a LG to develop at a cut-rate deal. We have a RT whom we have an overpriced, but 1 YEAR deal with which will not hurt us against the cap next year if and when we decide what we have to do there.

I have to agree. Simmons hasn't seen much play time and plus he is to injury prone. Max...well his work out on the field at RT speaks for itself.

steelreserve
02-28-2009, 01:57 AM
Once again... Kemo signed for UNDER the AVERAGE VALUE of a LG... that being the average of 2 YEARS AGO.

Fact of the matter is, Simmons SUCKED. He had to leave. Something happened to him and he went downhill FAST. His blown achilles tendon is what finally gave the Steelers the push to put someone else in there, and Stapleton . . STAPLETON played better.

Starks sucks at RT. But don't transfer that over to LT. Go back and watch the games where he started at LT. It seems to be his natural position.

BTW, Smith . . . Sat out over a SEASON's worth of football over the last two years. He has had surgery, and looks to be going for more surgery (if not already) to fix the problem. how long to we waste money on a player past his prime?

No, the FO was absolutely right in letting both Simmons and Smith walk (well hobble is more accurate) away. We have a LG to develop at a cut-rate deal. We have a RT whom we have an overpriced, but 1 YEAR deal with which will not hurt us against the cap next year if and when we decide what we have to do there.

I'd actually say Colon is close to market value, Kemo is overpriced and Starks is WAY overpriced. We should not be paying top-five money for Starks; we should be paying unreliable journeyman money or washed-up veteran money, because if we're just talking about one year, there are plenty of either who could do the same level of work. Kemo, same deal. Neither of them are doing a bang-up job. YET WE'RE PAYING THEM $13 MILLION NEXT YEAR. THAT'S MORE THAT ALL OUR RECEIVERS, ALL OUR LINEBACKERS, OR OUR ENTIRE DEFENSIVE LINE. FOR TWO AVERAGE OFFENSIVE LINEMEN WHO MAKE A TON OF MISTAKES.

Probably the most frustrating thing is what this potentially cost us in terms of other players. Zero potential to get new FAs, and we'll be hard-pressed to keep any of our FAs. Would you keep Kemo over Harrison? Starks over Holmes? That's the fricking choice we've made, and I hate it. We make fun of other teams for doing this type of shit.

Yeah, we were right to get rid of Smith and Simmons, but we couldn't even do that right. We took the worst possible cap hit for Simmons and dove right into paying the most possible for an average left tackle without even really pressing our options. Do we enjoy shoveling money at Starks without even seeing whether anyone will really offer him anything worthwhile? Because even if we sat there and let him become a free agent, then changed our minds and outbid everyone for him, it would be hard to spend more on him than we are every year this way. We're paying him as if he was the third-best tackle in the league, and we're doing it consistently now! We can't do that.

Look, if we were able to do what we just did without putting ourselves in a bad position, that would be OK. OK, but not great. But we have just BLOWN ALL OF OUR CAP ROOM WITHOUT IMPROVING THE TEAM AT ALL. We have taken a step sideways and paid almost $20 million to do it. This is the kind of shit that can cripple a team. Tell me again why I should be happy about it, or even just why I should not be royally pissed off about it.

Preacher
02-28-2009, 02:59 AM
Tell me again why I should be happy about it, or even just why I should not be royally pissed off about it.

Because the top paid position outside of QB is . . . LG. That's right. Not WR, not RB, but LG. For us to get him back THAT CHEAP. . . is very good for us. Otherwise, we are going for another LESS proven LG at a BIGGER price because Kemo gave a hometown discount.

Would I prefer the next Faneca sans attitude instead? Absolutely.

But that is NOT the choice we had.

I am quite interested in what you prefer we do with the cap issue we have, with the other guards and the money THEY will want (not giving us the hometown discount Kemo gave) and our needing a right guard already.

lilyoder6
02-28-2009, 03:08 AM
i think we got the good end of the stick with regards to kemo and what we would of spent to get a starting lg...

5 yrs for 20 mill for a starting lg who is 26, and was predicted the best guard in FA.. that is good dealing.. and i think he can only get better...

colon is playing on a 1 yr 2.5 mill deal or w/e it is...

MasterOfPuppets
02-28-2009, 03:18 AM
Because the top paid position outside of QB is . . . LG. That's right. Not WR, not RB, but LG. For us to get him back THAT CHEAP. . . is very good for us. Otherwise, we are going for another LESS proven LG at a BIGGER price because Kemo gave a hometown discount.

Would I prefer the next Faneca sans attitude instead? Absolutely.

But that is NOT the choice we had.

I am quite interested in what you prefer we do with the cap issue we have, with the other guards and the money THEY will want (not giving us the hometown discount Kemo gave) and our needing a right guard already.actually preach, i think it's LEFT TACKLES that come in 2nd......as far as kemo being a bargain, gotta disagree there too....i don't think colbert even bothered to contact any other free agents. i think he just panicked and got the checkbook out.......there was other viable options out there as far as price and upgrades go. if you'll notice below,they coulda had moore, who was defenitely a proven / better option than kemo. for about the same money .. ray willis the seahawks RT is still unsigned, he probably could be had for what colon is getting and would probably be an upgrade


Hours after being jilted by Steelers guard Chris Kemoeatu, the Jets have re-signed veteran right guard Brandon Moore to a four-year, $16-million deal that includes $10 million guaranteed, The Star-Ledger has learned.

Moore, who was due a $7 million roster bonus and released Thursday, is the Jets' best run blocker and is coming off his best season as a pro. At 28, he's in the prime of his career and it was a stunner that the Jets released him in the first place.

The return of Moore means all five starters on the offensive line will return.

Ray Willis, Seahawks. Age: 27.
Ray Willis started 10 games and gave up 1.5 sacks. He showed enough promise this season to be a solid right tackle down the road.

Fire Haley
02-28-2009, 05:12 AM
Anything that makes them weaker is a plus for us...

Brown agrees in principle with Rams

Jason Brown has agreed in principle tonight with the St. Louis Rams on a five-year, $37.5 million contract that includes $20 million guaranteed money.

Brown, the Ravens' starting center last season, will become one of the highest-paid interior linemen in the NFL, averaging $7.5 million per season

Brown reached free agency because the Ravens couldn't agree on his value. The Ravens wanted to pay Brown as a center (the highest-paid is $6 million per season) while the versatile offensive lineman wanted to be paid like a guard ($7 million to $8 million per season).

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/f...tory?track=rss

Galax Steeler
02-28-2009, 05:49 AM
Anything that makes them weaker is a plus for us...

Brown agrees in principle with Rams

Jason Brown has agreed in principle tonight with the St. Louis Rams on a five-year, $37.5 million contract that includes $20 million guaranteed money.

Brown, the Ravens' starting center last season, will become one of the highest-paid interior linemen in the NFL, averaging $7.5 million per season

Brown reached free agency because the Ravens couldn't agree on his value. The Ravens wanted to pay Brown as a center (the highest-paid is $6 million per season) while the versatile offensive lineman wanted to be paid like a guard ($7 million to $8 million per season).

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/f...tory?track=rss

I would had love to have seen this guy come to pittsburgh but I know there was no way we could have afforded him.

tony hipchest
02-28-2009, 04:14 PM
Now the question. Who is better, Foxworth or B-Mac? Fact is, Ravens seemed to skip right over B-Mac. So does he get a smaller contract than Foxworth?

If so, what could we offer him that he might accept? 5 years, 30 mill, 15 in guar. monies, backloaded? Make 10 of that a signing bonus for 2 mill a year cap hit, 20 mill split over 5 years in salary, 2.5 or so the first year and build to about 6 mill a year in 5 years, Even offer some achievement bonsus?

Seems the cap hit would be about 4.5 mill. That is still hurtful. But can it get done?

Like I said, I think the Foxworth signing may have just helped us.i dont know what youve seen of foxworth to question who is better. both are going into their 5th year. mcfadden is bigger, taller, and has more int's and similar passes defended with 10 fewer starts. (links to stats for both)-

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80ef3860&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

plus he is a 2X sb champion who has been an integral part of the #1 ranked defense tha past 2 years and has leaned from master lebeau.

in no way did the ravens help us. if anything, they helped solidify the market for mcfadden to be a $9 mil/year player.

how is ike taylor gonna feel seeing b-mac cashing in huge when he was helping the team get under the cap and restructuring last year?

i see your stance, but theres no way i can buy it. i suspect ravens passed on b-mac because they knew he would be too expensive for them.

BlastFurnace
02-28-2009, 05:25 PM
i dont know what youve seen of foxworth to question who is better. both are going into their 5th year. mcfadden is bigger, taller, and has more int's and similar passes defended with 10 fewer starts. (links to stats for both)-

i see your stance, but theres no way i can buy it. i suspect ravens passed on b-mac because they knew he would be too expensive for them.

I agree with you on this one. BMAC's price must be pretty high if he didn't even get a look from the defensive loving Baltimore team. BMAC is much better than Foxworth. I wonder what in the world BMAC is asking!