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joefootball
03-03-2009, 01:07 PM
I think the lowest he will sign (most Steelers will offer will be 5 years for $60 million with $27 million guaranteed --- (FYI Bart Scott 6/48 with 27 (not sure) guaranteed...)

Thoughts...

drew102e
03-03-2009, 01:08 PM
5/55/25

Fire Haley
03-03-2009, 01:12 PM
No contract.



See: Chad Brown, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Kendrell Bell, Joey Porter

BlastFurnace
03-03-2009, 01:18 PM
3 Years
$36 Million
$20 guaranteed

KeiselPower99
03-03-2009, 01:27 PM
4 yrs 38 million

Indo
03-03-2009, 01:33 PM
No contract.



See: Chad Brown, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Kendrell Bell, Joey Porter



This is the one "deal" that concerns me. But, as always, the Rooneys will not (and SHOULD NOT) cave in to outrageous demands ( I know, "what's the definition of "outrageous" in the NFL"---but you know what I mean). There always seems to be someone waiting in the wings, ready to step up and play like a Steeler...

drew102e
03-03-2009, 01:33 PM
wishful thinking...haynesworth signing pushed him into double digits per year

steelreserve
03-03-2009, 01:35 PM
I think the lowest he will sign (most Steelers will offer will be 5 years for $60 million with $27 million guaranteed --- (FYI Bart Scott 6/48 with 27 (not sure) guaranteed...)

Thoughts...

You must be out of your mind; we can't afford anything close to $12 million a year. We can't even afford $7 or $8 million a year. Especially since we're what, $2 million under the salary cap.

$1.2M/franchise/franchise

works out to about $6 million a year that way, and we'd be foolish to pay much more.

ricksteelers55
03-03-2009, 01:35 PM
3 yrs 31 millions 16 mil guaranteed

joefootball
03-03-2009, 01:36 PM
I think the lowest he will sign (most Steelers will offer will be 5 years for $60 million with $27 million guaranteed --- (FYI Bart Scott 6/48 with 27 (not sure) guaranteed...)

Thoughts...

I think the last year would be at about $15 million so in essence ---- 4 / 45 (but as I type this I may agree that I doubt the Steelers will go above 5/50 and 25 guar.) ---- my guess is his agent started at about 6/66 with 35 guaranteed


_____

also no way he signs less than a 5 year contract at his age...

______

joefootball
03-03-2009, 01:38 PM
You must be out of your mind; we can't afford anything close to $12 million a year.

I'm trying to look at his market value ONLY --- no way he accepts any less than SCOTT --- so it looks like NO contract and a FRANCHISE next year...

Vincent
03-03-2009, 01:40 PM
No contract.

See: Chad Brown, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Kendrell Bell, Joey Porter

I'm inclined to see it going in that direction. There seems to be a "perfect storm" to screw this up - the CBA expiring and limiting increases to 30% annually, the stupid market, and the existing CAP.

How do they structure the contract under the CBA rules? How do they get near a contract they'd not be embarrassed to report in this stupid market? How do they do it without breaking the bank and damaging the teams prospects?

It doesn't need to be Fat Albert money but it has to be a lot more than Bart the Ducker got or its perceived as a slight to Silverback.

I don't see it happening. And it wouldn't be a disaster if it didn't.

Its a crying damn shame. That kid is one of the best football players we have seen. He gives more than he has on every play. If anyone ever deserved to be the King, it is James Harrison.

The smart thing to do is come to agreement under these circumstances, then hold a PC where both sides state their desire to go forward the Steeler Way regardless of the stupidity of the market. Yeah, I don't see it happening either.

steelreserve
03-03-2009, 01:43 PM
I'm inclined to see it going in that direction. There seems to be a "perfect storm" to screw this up - the CBA expiring and limiting increases to 30% annually, the stupid market, and the existing CAP.


Don't forget Starks. We could've signed him no problem if we didn't waste about $9 million of cap room on Starks. :banging: :banging: :banging:

BlastFurnace
03-03-2009, 01:46 PM
Don't forget Starks. We could've signed him no problem if we didn't waste about $9 million of cap room on Starks. :banging: :banging: :banging:

I don't think Starks's $9 Million is the problem when we are probably talking $$$'s above $50 Million for James.

steelreserve
03-03-2009, 01:56 PM
I don't think Starks's $9 Million is the problem when we are probably talking $$$'s above $50 Million for James.

Sure it is. It's not like we'd take a $50 million cap hit all at once.$9 million a year would make Harrison the highest-paid linebacker in the league.

Well, he'd actually be just behind what Stabby McStabberson made last year with the Ravens, but I seriously doubt he'll get that kind of money again. Basically, in terms of salary per year, Starks = Harrison. We get to pick one but not both.

LukesDad88
03-03-2009, 02:15 PM
I think Snyder signs him for One Gajillion Dollars, for one year with a Three Katrillion Dollar Signing Bonus.

RoethlisBURGHer
03-03-2009, 02:17 PM
Don't forget Starks. We could've signed him no problem if we didn't waste about $9 million of cap room on Starks. :banging: :banging: :banging:

Starks is under the franchise tag right now, if we come to a long-term deal with him it won't be at $9M/year.

Harrison is under contract right now through the 2009 season.

Starks contract currently runs only through 2009.

So no, Starks isn't what is keeping us from signing Harrison.

What would keep us from signing Harrison is the contract a lesser LB in Bart Scott just got from the Jets.

The DPOY deserves more than Scott and we'd have to see what the Cowpatties give Ware if they resign him before we resign Harrison. Not to mention whatever Stabbit Ray gets will factor in.

steelreserve
03-03-2009, 02:31 PM
Starks is under the franchise tag right now, if we come to a long-term deal with him it won't be at $9M/year.


I will believe that when I see it. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to give him $15 million a year for some reason. Or maybe they franchise him every year for the next six seasons. Who knows? All our front office has done with Starks is show itself to be completely incapable of coming to any rational conclusion, no matter how much time or money they devote to the problem.

Harrison is under contract right now through the 2009 season.

Starks contract currently runs only through 2009.

So no, Starks isn't what is keeping us from signing Harrison.

It definitely is. Starks' contract is only for one year, but it's the absolute worst possible year. The rules for next year stop us from giving Harrison a big pay raise in 2010 if we don't give him a big pay raise now. Because of Starks, we don't have the cap room to do that. And do you really think we'll be able to outbid other teams for Harrison if he hits the open market in an uncapped year in 2010? Along with Holmes, Ward and Miller at the same time? Come on.

Honestly, we've got to get the deal done this year or it ain't getting done unless we franchise him. We should've let Starks and Kemo walk; then we could've taken our pick of any two of Harrison, Holmes, Ward and Miller to lock up. Maybe even three. But no, instead, we spend $13 million on dime-a-dozen linemen because they have "potential".

joefootball
03-03-2009, 02:36 PM
2009 is yr 1 -- bonus 25 million (it would be staggered/ roster bonus but to look at it simply as a 5 mill cap cost

Cap cost (5 mil per year bonus factored in)
yr 1: 7 mill
yr 2: 10 million
yr 3 : 10 million
yr 4 : 12 million
yr 5 : 15 million

this would be 5 year/ 54 million with 25 guaranteed ----

The 7 million for 09 can easily fit under the cap (goodbye FOOTE)

at yr 5 --- renegotiation or cut ? would still mean 44 mill over 4 ----- which is the market

but again I think it won't happen.....

RoethlisBURGHer
03-03-2009, 02:41 PM
And if we let Starks walk, then who is our LT?

It was damned if we do, damned if we don't with Starks.

stlrtruck
03-03-2009, 02:49 PM
I'm going to take a stab in the dark (albeit a very bad one)....

6 years
$58M
$26M Guaranteed

steelreserve
03-03-2009, 02:51 PM
And if we let Starks walk, then who is our LT?

It was damned if we do, damned if we don't with Starks.

We probably could've had either of the Eagles' tackles, or several other aging veterans, for substantially less than what we paid Starks. We could've re-signed Smith for cheap and made sure we had a backup ready in either Essex or the draft, or both.

No, none of those options is going to give us a great left tackle, but neither is keeping Starks. That's what baffles me -- why do people have their sights set so high that they think we're in trouble if we don't sign a Pro Bowl tackle who costs $10 million a year? You bring in some washed-up veteran or unreliable journeyman, and you don't risk much of a drop-off in production because Starks isn't all that great to begin with. We were bidding against ourselves for him, and for no good reason other than we apparently panicked.

steelreserve
03-03-2009, 02:52 PM
I'm going to take a stab in the dark

Are you talking about Ray Lewis' contract now?

St33lersguy
03-03-2009, 04:52 PM
6 years $63 mil. $ mil guaranteed

CPanther95
03-03-2009, 04:57 PM
Haynesworth basically got a 4 year/$48 million contract. We won't, and shouldn't, pay that much for him. Dan Rooney isn't Snyder - thankfully.

As much as I love him, I'd say we end up just waiting a year and having the option of slapping a tag on him for another year - and I'm not sure a year from now if we'll even tag him, we may even trade him.

devilsdancefloor
03-03-2009, 05:24 PM
3 yr 30 mill 15 guarnateed

Fire Haley
03-03-2009, 06:04 PM
pessimists.....:doh:


You're really gonna be in shock next year when everyone leaves.

We win another SB this year - then who cares where Harrison goes, we got our use out of him.

The Duke
03-03-2009, 06:58 PM
pessimists.....:doh:

pessimist ? I'd say realist

and he won't be the only one we lose in the next 2 years

but for my prediction I'd say franchise tag. they use it on an average tackle like starks then they can use it on silverback

Hapa
03-03-2009, 08:03 PM
1 year $400000000000000000000 400000000000000000000 guaranteed.

CPanther95
03-03-2009, 08:39 PM
You'd think Rooney would have no problem getting a big chunk of that Stimulus money they're throwing around. :)

Steely McSmash
03-03-2009, 09:18 PM
I think Harrison's payscale is not in line with what the current FA class is getting because he has to realize that if there is no deal he gets <2 mil for next year and will be a Steeler regardless. he risks injury over the next few years without the big payday.

He strikes me as a guy who is not interested in going to another system to be the go to guy.

So my understanding is that base salary cannot go up by more than 30%/yr.

my guess is 45 mil over 5 years 10M guaranteed.

yr / base
1 / 4
2 / 5
3 / 6.6
4 / 8.5
5 / 11

I think big guaranteed money is poor practice for an older guy.

Steely McSmash
03-03-2009, 09:31 PM
2009 is yr 1 -- bonus 25 million (it would be staggered/ roster bonus but to look at it simply as a 5 mill cap cost

Cap cost (5 mil per year bonus factored in)
yr 1: 7 mill
yr 2: 10 million
yr 3 : 10 million
yr 4 : 12 million
yr 5 : 15 million

this would be 5 year/ 54 million with 25 guaranteed ----

The 7 million for 09 can easily fit under the cap (goodbye FOOTE)

at yr 5 --- renegotiation or cut ? would still mean 44 mill over 4 ----- which is the market

but again I think it won't happen.....

if you take the cap out your base looks like this:
2 - 5 - 5 - 7 - 10

You have 250% raise yr 1 to 2, 40% raise year 3 to 4, 43% raise year 4 to 5. I think these need to be limited to 30%.

25 mil is a huge risk in case he gets hurt and needs to be cut. You'd have to cut or re-structure several blue chip players to deal with that.

I think all the guarantees are not neccesarily signing bonusses so they may be accounted differently. Ben got 36 mil guaranteed with 26 Mil signing bonus.

FredScott
03-04-2009, 03:56 AM
I'm gonna say we simply franchise him so we at least have him for 2 more years, counting this one of course. But I have to say that Scott did ruin the whole deal for us by getting so much money and lets face it the guy was way over payed. I think at best we will offer Harrison no more then 7mil a year so I'd go with 5yr/35mil/15mil.

joefootball
03-05-2009, 09:14 AM
my guess is 45 mil over 5 years 10M guaranteed.

yr / base
1 / 4
2 / 5
3 / 6.6
4 / 8.5
5 / 11

I think big guaranteed money is poor practice for an older guy.

I know this is my third guess here but now I'm finished --- I think that 45 over 5 with 17 guaranteed is what he SHOULD get .... but I don't know if the Steelers will go that high....
ray ray got 3/24/17 guaranteed
Bart scott 6/48/22

Pola. got 15 guar 2 years ago

harrison:

yr/ cap hit

1/ 6
2/ 7
3/ 9
4/ 10 --- steelers would renegotiate here if he's still healthy
5/ 13

coldsweat
03-05-2009, 12:25 PM
either way he will be over paid.

joefootball
04-13-2009, 11:28 AM
I think that 45 over 5 with 17 guaranteed is what he SHOULD get .... but I don't know if the Steelers will go that high....

harrison:

yr/ cap hit

1/ 6
2/ 7
3/ 9
4/ 10 --- steelers would renegotiate here if he's still healthy
5/ 13

52 mill over 6 years and 20 in roster bonuses -- haven't heard any more details

-------- looks I was pretty much spot on or pretty close .... :tt:

Steely McSmash
04-13-2009, 12:03 PM
52 mill over 6 years and 20 in roster bonuses -- haven't heard any more details

-------- looks I was pretty much spot on or pretty close .... :tt:

well done!:drink:

fansince'76
04-13-2009, 12:05 PM
Prediction? 6 years, $51.75 million with $20 million guaranteed. :chuckle:

Fire Haley
04-13-2009, 12:10 PM
I'm glad I suck at predictions.

vasteeler
04-13-2009, 02:54 PM
Prediction? 6 years, $51.75 million with $20 million guaranteed. :chuckle:

WOW!!!!! How do you do it:noidea:

stlrtruck
04-13-2009, 10:08 PM
I'm going to take a stab in the dark (albeit a very bad one)....

6 years
$58M
$26M Guaranteed

Hey Tony pointed this back out to me. Maybe I could be a GM somewhere in the NFL. Maybe Detroit or right here in Tampa - why not, it's got to be better than what I do for a living now. :thumbsup: