View Full Version : My annual Cleveland Indians thread.

03-05-2009, 08:46 AM
OK, this IS the year my Tribe returns to glory (wasn't it the Eisenhower years the last time they won the WS?).

They have it all. Pitching (Look for Pavano to make a huge comeback this year), a bullpen (glory, hallelujah! Is that Kerry Wood?) gloves in the field (Mark DeRosa is a HUGE upgrade at 3rd, and he can hit), and that batting oreder will be murder for opposing pitchers with Martinez and Hafner healthy again, they are stacked from 1-9.

Most importantly? It's an odd-numbered year. I have them winning 95 games and taking it all in 'o9.

03-05-2009, 09:09 AM
Lets go Tribe!!!!!

03-05-2009, 12:18 PM
I like the way you guys think! I have to admit, I don't follow baseball much at all. I couldn't tell you 2/3 of the team I support. I only root for them, because they're from Cleveland. As the season progresses, I may look into them more...but I wouldn't count on it.

03-05-2009, 02:43 PM
Might as well cheer for them, they are the only hope for a Cleveland world championship.

03-05-2009, 03:06 PM
Cavaliers are more likely to pull down a championship than the Indians...

Are the Indians still owned by the Dolans? I know they preferred to home-grow their players and rarely overpaid for anybody (which I thought was pretty cool.) Helps keep ticket prices down...though that benefits my Indians following family far more than it benefits me.

03-06-2009, 07:57 AM
MOST importantly the FO has Mark Shapiro...best GM in baseball. Does more with less than maybe any GM in sports.

The Pirates need a guy like him in their FO...

03-06-2009, 11:15 AM
By the by, Omar Visquel was asked what hat he'd wear into the HOF, and he said, without a doubt, it would be a Tribe hat.

His numbers at the plate are lacking a bit (although he had some pretty good years here and there), but he may be the best pure fielding SS to ever play the game.

That gets him in the Hall in my book...

03-06-2009, 01:46 PM
My aunt (season ticket holder) has an autographed jersey, picture, hat and other items from him (Omar). She says he's a sure-fire HoFer. I'll go with it. Baseball just isn't my thing...and where I don't live close to Indians fans, I don't keep up.

03-06-2009, 01:56 PM
They won't win because it's Cleveland.

03-06-2009, 02:01 PM
They won't win because it's Cleveland.

That is it in a nutshell.

03-09-2009, 09:43 AM
They won't win because it's Cleveland.

As always, intelligent, concise and well thought out input from you.:blah:

03-13-2009, 04:27 PM
i love my Tribe and my Pirates, in fact I'm going to be at PNC on June 25th to see them square off, that way I leave happy either way. Hit me up if anybody will be there.

03-13-2009, 10:00 PM
i love my Tribe and my Pirates, in fact I'm going to be at PNC on June 25th to see them square off, that way I leave happy either way. Hit me up if anybody will be there.

Ill see you there.

03-15-2009, 04:22 PM
go cavs
the tribe may make the playoffs this year but the central is pretty tough between the sox, the twins, and the tigers

03-30-2009, 09:27 AM
The Tribes roster has been set and here it is.


63 Betancourt, Rafael RP
55 Carmona, Fausto SP
57 Jackson, Zach SP
30 Kobayashi, Masa RP
31 Lee, Cliff SP
50 Lewis, Jensen RP
46 Lewis, Scott RP
49 Mujica, Edward RP
44 Pavano, Carl SP
53 PĂ©rez, Rafael RP
27 Reyes, Anthony RP/SP
38 Smith, Joe RP
34 Wood, Kerry

41 Victor Martinez
10 Kelly Shoppach

29 Josh Barfield 2B
13 Asdrubal Cabera 2B/SS
11 Jamey Carroll 2B/Utility
7 Mark Derosa 3B
25 Ryan Garko 1B
2 Jhonny Peralta SS

17 Shin Soo Choo
20 David Dellucci
12 Ben Fransico
24 Grady Sizemore

48 Travis Hafner

03-30-2009, 10:31 AM
Pitching 1-3 should be VERY strong, and 4-5 are big question marks. Fortunately they had an open competition for the 5th spot and sent 2 guys down to continue working, so should someone in the rotation falter, hopefully there will be a guy who's really ready to step in and take over. This will be a rotation that doesn't light many batters up K-wise, but will make batters put a lot of balls in play, and depend on the D to get outs. DP's will be really important this year.

Bullpen will be good and DEEP. This will be a strength where it was previously a real weakness.

Shoppach has been really strong both behind and at the plate, so expect Martinez to get more reps as DH/1B. Martinez has also improved his ability to throw runners out, so that's a nice surprise. His bat is UBER important to the Tribes success.

This will be the strongest defensive club Cleveland has put on the field in years. Even Peralta has upped his game.

Sizemore is already a Superstar, but Choo is "next". He's gonna be a terror at the plate once he gets his reps in (recovering from a nagging injury).

Provided the starting rotation holds up, this is a potential 100 win club. They are THAT good this year.

03-30-2009, 04:53 PM
Dont forget we get Jake Westbrook back around the AllStar break. I really think Jeremy Sowers and Aaron Laffey both make more starts for the Tribe this year then Scott Lewis and Anthony Reyes. Hell even Zack Jackson will start some. If Pronk returns to half the form he is capable of we will be back.

03-30-2009, 06:14 PM
I can't rip you guys for cheering for the Indians.... farking stupid Pirates...

"Oh No!! We suck again!!"

03-30-2009, 08:24 PM
I can't rip you guys for cheering for the Indians.... farking stupid Pirates...

"Oh No!! We suck again!!"

Rev sorry for hijacking your thread i promise this will be the only one, ill make a Pirates thread for this talk

dont count out the pirates yet, they are playing real well in spring training. the last time we finished with a winning record in spring, was the year we have come closest to a winning season since our streak. Not saying THIS is the year, but we are getting real, REAL close

As for the indians, they look real good going into the season. whats your ETA on Matt LaPorta, i took him in one of my minor leauge drafts

03-30-2009, 10:07 PM
I say midseason for LaPorta. Fransico and Choo will be given time to show if they can handle the corners.

03-31-2009, 07:46 AM
Unfortunately, Pronk has really struggled getting his swing back.

Fortunately, we are so deep that we can have Garko play 1st and Martinez can DH if need be. There are other options as well. But it looks like Wedge is going forward with Hafner in the 4 hole to start the season no matter what. Hopefully the reps get him back up to speed fast.

03-31-2009, 11:44 AM
Exactley Pronk can take his time and get that swing working right. Shoppach has given us alot of options.

03-31-2009, 12:01 PM
I think it's going to come down to that starting rotation. If they can produce, the Tribe wins 100 (or close) this year. It's an odd numbered year. They have the right mix of youth and vets. They look stromg in the pen. They have depth. They should CLOBBER the ball this year.

If the starters hold up, it's gonna be a good year.

03-31-2009, 02:32 PM
From what I read the entire staff has looked good except Lee. But yea pitching is key this year.

03-31-2009, 05:07 PM
Lee I'm not worried about. I had him pegged as a 20 game winner TWO years ago. He's a lefty who has great control, has 4 good pitches and keeps the ball low. He lives and dies by the fastball, though, and I think he's struggled a tad getting that pitch on different planes this spring. Once that pitch is in place, it sets up his other stuff, and he could easily win another 20 if he gets run support (and he should with the sticks in that dugout)

04-01-2009, 05:36 PM
SAN DIEGO, Calif. (AP)—The San Diego Padres have acquired right-handed reliever Edward Mujica from the Cleveland Indians.

General Manager Kevin Towers announced the deal Wednesday. The Indians will receive a player or cash for Mujica (MOO-he-kuh).

The 24-year-old Mujica split the 2008 season between Cleveland and Triple-A Buffalo. With the Indians, he was 3-2 with a 6.75 ERA and had 27 strikeouts in 33 appearances.

Mujica is 3-3 record with 6.04 ERA with 46 strikeouts in 53 relief outings for Cleveland (2006-08). He was signed by the Indians as a undrafted free agent on October 22, 2001.

Mujica is 0-2 with an 8.10 ERA in nine spring training appearances.

04-05-2009, 04:15 PM
You claim that you are a Steelers fan but you are a Indians fan? B-A-N-D-W-A-G-O-N

04-05-2009, 06:40 PM
You claim that you are a Steelers fan but you are a Indians fan? B-A-N-D-W-A-G-O-N

I'm 39 years old. I've been a Steelers fan since I was about 6. I've been an Indians fan since I was about 8. My dad and I were forced to watch Tribe games on a black and white TV in the basement on an old UHF channel. But we did. The Indians didn't even have a winning season until I was in my 20's.

Nice try.

04-05-2009, 07:54 PM
You claim that you are a Steelers fan but you are a Indians fan? B-A-N-D-W-A-G-O-N

My grandpa lived in Cleveland for years and was a Indians fan. I became one to have something to talk about with him. Ill cheer for the Pirates every chance I get. Just cause the Tribe are my favortie baseball team dont make me any less of a die hard Steelers fan.

04-06-2009, 06:29 AM
The Tribe should be very good this year.

I really hope the Tigers have another bad season, and watch out for the Royals this year to.

04-06-2009, 12:33 PM
Lee vs Millwood a half hour away.

04-06-2009, 01:11 PM
If anyone is interested over on the indians website they are having a one day sale. 2 weeks free of Indians mobile buy one get one tickets check it out if ya get the chance.

04-06-2009, 02:38 PM
Lee got shelled for 7 in less than 5 innings.

04-06-2009, 06:13 PM
Lee got shelled for 7 in less than 5 innings.

If Lee pitches like that all season, we're doomed.

04-06-2009, 08:38 PM
All the runs he gave up was right after he was hit by a ball. Might have messed up his delivery. Dunno. Anyways ya cant win em all.

04-06-2009, 08:43 PM
All the runs he gave up was right after he was hit by a ball. Might have messed up his delivery. Dunno. Anyways ya cant win em all.

I didn't see the game (I work third shift and was sleeping).

If that's the case, lets hope the effects of that were just today's game.

Yep, can't win em all...but it would be nice!

04-06-2009, 09:46 PM
It was in the 3rd i believe and the ball hit him right under the elbow on the forearm. He had a decent sized knot there right after wards. That one inning is where it got to him and the rest of the game he looked fine.

04-07-2009, 07:53 AM
Nah, it was the second, and he gave up 4 runs that inning. He settled in a little after that.

He'll be fine, but he won't win 22 games this season. Carmona might though...I expect him to be the Ace of the staff this year by the break...

04-08-2009, 08:03 PM
And in a repeat of opening day the Rangers get 4 in the bottom of the 2nd. Carmona is missing the spot early.

04-08-2009, 10:25 PM
And we lose 8-5. Dammit

04-09-2009, 07:49 AM
At least they started hitting the ball.

The Tribe will be fine...just a slow start.

04-09-2009, 01:08 PM
Pavano makes his Tribe debut today.

04-09-2009, 03:05 PM
Shelled for 7 in two.

These guys can't all be that bad...they'll settle in after a couple games...

04-09-2009, 04:57 PM
There was some nice things from the Tribe today. Jackson came in and slowed the Rangers bats for awhile more then the 3 starters had. Hafner hit his first of the year. I think once the guys get in a routine they will be fine.

04-10-2009, 08:03 AM
Well, to find the silver lining, had the game started in the 3rd, the Tribe would have won 7-3.

(I know, I know...what a reach!)

04-10-2009, 09:37 AM
Good point.

04-10-2009, 09:46 AM
Ready for this?

Indians starters ERA's:

Carmona- 10.80
Lee- 12.60

And, get this. Carl Pavano? 81.00. That's no typo. His ERA is Eighty-One.

Perez and Jackosn are currently the staff aces with 4.50 ERA's.

They need to start pointing this ship in the right direction today in the home opener.

04-10-2009, 03:27 PM
Here we go!

Scott Lewis got out of the 1st with no runs. Yeah!

2-0 Tribe...first time this year they've played with a lead.

04-11-2009, 01:38 AM
If the pitching comes around we will be fine. Damn it was nice seeing Hafner hitting the homer and damn near getting one on the first. 81 era huh? Damn. 0-4 with our pitchers getting roughed up in every game. Wow.

04-12-2009, 07:35 PM
8-4 victory today and they looked good doing it. Hafner is looking like the Pronk of old and already has 3 HR. Kansas City is next then off to NY to open up the gawdiest hellhole imaginable to man.

04-13-2009, 07:46 AM
Off the schnide!

04-15-2009, 08:26 AM
1-7....looks like tickets are going to be plentiful this year.

04-15-2009, 09:12 AM
Manny wants to come back! With Thome!


(But this will never ever happen...still, it's fun to think about)

Other good news: Pavano's ERA is down to only 16.71. Hey, it's better than 81!

04-16-2009, 09:00 PM
I like the way we thrashed the Yankees home opener today!!!!

04-17-2009, 11:00 AM
Cliff Lee was outstanding today! Sizemore hits a grandslam! The evil empire has their new stadium home opener ruined. Glory Glory!

Now we do this in 10's. We go 7-3 next 10 and get back to .500, then "start the season over". We also play every team in our division yet, so plenty of time to make up ground.

04-17-2009, 01:41 PM
Into the Yanks bullpen early again. I believe we are starting to hit our stide.

04-18-2009, 10:27 PM
And the Yankees Lose 22-4. HEY STEINBRENNER, GO SIGN SOME PITCHERS!!! :rofl:

04-19-2009, 09:15 PM
So we open Yankee Stadium with 2 blowout wins over them. I love it.

04-20-2009, 08:32 AM
Splitting with NY in NY when they are opening a new stadium ain't too shabby...especially since they are like 9-22 in NY in the recent past.

Pavano was outstanding yesterday. Look like Lee, Pavano, Reyes and Laffey are all just about back in form. Carmona is a little behind, but he'll get there.

HORRIBLE call on the HR by the by. That was an out, but it was in NY so what can you expect? The problem is, what is the point of instand replay if you are just going to make the wrong call to appease the hometown fans anyway? That was the way it was before and it did NOT cause 15 minute breaks in the game...

04-24-2009, 11:41 AM
We finally won a series.

04-25-2009, 01:26 PM
That's how we'll do it...going .750 or .666 in every series the rest of the way...only a little hole to dig out of.

Problem is, where did the bats go?

04-25-2009, 02:19 PM
We left them in New York apparently.

04-25-2009, 11:44 PM
Have to agree with ya. Since w left NY we havent hit for crap.

04-27-2009, 11:38 PM
Cliff Lee had a great game tonight and damn we blew it.

04-28-2009, 08:06 AM
Wood has been pretty solid...I think that was a fluke.

04-30-2009, 08:15 PM
I saw where Pronk is on the DL with a fatigued shoulder. I hope they didnt overwork him and his problems are gonna come back.

05-01-2009, 08:09 AM
They can catch Shoppich and move Victor to DH (That's what I'd do anyway) and let Garko play 1st until he gets back...that keeps us pretty sharp from top to bottom...looks lile theb hitting slump is over, the starting pitching is on track, and now it's the bullpen that's the problem.

When we get all 3 of those cylinders firing in synch we'll be alright...

05-02-2009, 07:11 AM
Same story...Pavano was strong, they hit the ball, and the pen almost blew it...

Still, a road win against a division foe works...

05-05-2009, 12:26 PM
Nice to see LaPorta getting his first hit last night and helped us get a big win. On a side note I got my tickets for the Tribe and Buccos on June 25.

05-05-2009, 03:05 PM
I'm hitting the June 1 game against the Evil Empire (Yankee's).

A series against the Blue Jays is just what the Dr. ordered....

05-08-2009, 09:27 AM
win 1 loss 2 seems to be the way its looking this year.

05-08-2009, 12:21 PM
Another bullpen collapse...yeesh!

05-10-2009, 08:21 PM
3 runs in 3 days against Detroit. God this is gettin pathetic.

05-11-2009, 12:02 PM
.179 batting average during this series. Puke!

05-12-2009, 10:31 PM
How long before the Fire Wedge posts starts?

05-15-2009, 02:27 PM
How long before the Fire Wedge posts starts?

Awhile...they strung a whole two wins in a row together.

This MAY be the turning point, though.

Sucks for Cliff Lee...he's a meager 2-5 but may end up having a 1 ERA by seasons end.

05-15-2009, 09:48 PM
Hope Lee dosent have a year like Kevin Millwood did where he was in the top 5 for ERA but only had 9 wins.

05-25-2009, 03:25 PM
Feast of famine.

05-25-2009, 03:42 PM
Until the 11th inning loss, the pen went 10 scoreless innings.

We just need to put it all together now.

05-25-2009, 04:30 PM
Isn't that the story of the Indians lives though? It seems we're always struggling with the Bullpen...and on the rare nights they show up, the bats don't.

05-29-2009, 08:07 AM
Nice 4 game sweep of the Rays. That comback Monday was incredible. I turned it off when it was 10-2 turned it back and bam they had won. I really think they are on the up and up right now.

05-29-2009, 10:44 AM
I'm heading up there Monday night to watch them battle "The Evil Empire". If the Cavs win Saturday, it will also be game 7 of that series right next door...should be an interesting scene, to say the least.

No way am I driving into the city THAT night...parking and riding the train in!

05-29-2009, 01:16 PM
I'm heading up there Monday night to watch them battle "The Evil Empire". If the Cavs win Saturday, it will also be game 7 of that series right next door...should be an interesting scene, to say the least.

No way am I driving into the city THAT night...parking and riding the train in!

I dont blame ya on that one. Itll be a packed city the Yanks always bring in a big crowd.

06-05-2009, 07:29 PM
Carmona sent down to Arizona Rookie ball today with Hafner coming back up. And in a sad note former owner Richard Jacobs died today. He was 84.

06-06-2009, 07:38 AM
RIP Jacobs. He literally (along with John Hart) rewrote the book on managing a baseball FO. They were the first to sign young players to long-term deals, now it's common practice.

Carmona to rookie ball. That's about as far as the once-mighty can fall. Not sure if we'll see him in a Tribe uniform again...

06-07-2009, 11:14 PM
Took 2 of 3 from Chicago. Carmona will be back but needs to regain that 07 form. That injury last year really messed him up.

06-10-2009, 12:15 PM
They are showing signs of life. And a bunch of guys are due off the DL in June. What's most helpful is the general sucktitude of the AL Central. After the atrocious start, they are only 7 games back and still play all the teams in the division enough times to easily make that up.

06-12-2009, 11:33 AM
I guess birds love to catch games in Cleveland? Wasn't this the 2nd time they had some sort of bird infestation this year?

06-12-2009, 03:44 PM
Actually, it happens almost every game.

06-15-2009, 11:10 AM
Took 2 of 3 from St. Louis. They are slowly coming around.

06-15-2009, 11:26 AM
Only 6 out of first. THIS is the Indians team I expected right out of the chute.

There's still plenty of time...

06-15-2009, 10:53 PM
Nice way to blow a lead tonight, Is it so hard to find guys that can throw strikes? This pen is in shambles. Smith looked good though. Why is Kobiyashi in Columbus???

06-16-2009, 07:59 AM
They sent him down to bring up Huff...who's pitched pretty well, actually.

06-16-2009, 08:41 AM
Huff has looked good. But they need to do something with Aquino and a few others. Nobody seemed to be throwing strikes last night. We paid Kerry Wood a ton and he cant even get into the game because the other guys cant hold a lead.

06-16-2009, 08:51 AM
If it was my call I'd ship them all down to the Aero's and start promoting their AA and AAA relievers. It can't get any worse, can it?

06-16-2009, 01:36 PM
I think they could go down to Chillcothe and sign their pitchers. Hell Im open for a spot in the pen how bout you?

06-16-2009, 01:42 PM
Even if they run these guys up for a game or two, they have an advantage in that the opponents don't have a book on them, have no idea about their tendencies. It's a stop-gap until we can get some solid relief, but, as I said, how could it be any worse that what we have now?

06-22-2009, 08:23 AM
Losers of 6 straight and a 4 of em the pen blew for us. How do ya lose after building a 7-0 lead? This series with the Pirates is gonna be interesting.

06-22-2009, 08:32 AM
We're done...stick a fork in us. Wedge has lost control (and has basically admitted as much), and his job is in jeopardy. The most important mistake they can avoid now is trading off guys like Lee, Martinez and Sizemore for prospects (read: give up and rebuild).

The core of this team is solid. They just need to get healthy and develop/trade for some better middle relief.

06-22-2009, 08:37 AM
I think the only guys getting traded are DeRosa and Wood. That bullpen has been horrible and either Wedge or Willis need to go now.

06-22-2009, 09:58 AM
Wood I can see, but who will replace him?

DeRosa needs to stay...he's a jack of all trades, can play just about every position, and has started hitting. In fact, he's batting .277 and has a second-on-the-team best slugging % of .470.

06-23-2009, 08:21 AM
DeRosa is a jack of alltrades but with Peralta moved to 3rd and Cabera at SS and Valbuena at 2nd where is he gonna play? Wedge has this team all screwed up. I read that LaPorta is gonna be called up to play 1b not OF. We need a solid everyday lineup not having 8 guys that play multiple postions. When Grady gets healthy Fransico needs to go to Columbus. This is the way the lineup should look in a few weeks

Sizemore CF
DeRosa LF
Martinez 1B
Choo RF
Peralta 3B
Hafner DH
Shoppach C
Cabera 2B
Valbeuno SS

Garko needs to be the 1B when Martinez is catching and not in the outfield.

06-23-2009, 09:03 AM
A) The only players producing right now are: Lee, Pavano, Martinez, Choo, and DeRosa.
B) Shoppach strikes out every 2.6 times at bat.
C) We need Grady back

06-23-2009, 09:17 AM
We do need Grady back.

06-23-2009, 10:47 AM
I guess they are still in play, but ONLY because the Central sucks so bad.

They are actually hitting pretty well, but the pitching situation is pretty abysmal. They need fixed in that department, and then they'll need to go on a real tear if they want to make the post-season. At least it's better than the old days, where after the June swoon they were already practically mathematically eliminated....

06-23-2009, 12:02 PM
If we get something decent from the pen with the way we are hitting its realistic we might be turning this sinking ship around.

06-23-2009, 02:10 PM
Just read Grady is activited off the DL and Sipp has been recalled. Crowe was sent back to Columbus and Vizcaino was designated.

06-24-2009, 08:01 AM
That's a start!

06-24-2009, 01:08 PM
Almost blew it last night. Wow no lead is safe it appears.

06-24-2009, 01:36 PM
Almost blew it last night. Wow no lead is safe it appears.

that was a hell of a ninth. jumped out of my seat when Laroche made contact with the ball

Indians rose to the challenge last night impressive performance from your pitcher

Mad i wont be able to see that last two games of the series, well i might be able to catch the one tommorrow

06-24-2009, 03:44 PM
What happens when the very stoppable force (The Bucs on a 4 game skid) meet the highly movable object (The Tribe on a six game skid)?

Two teams that seem like they are almost trying to lose.

Either way, I'm a sucker for my Indians, and picked up a couple tickets for the Tuesday game against the Sox. At least it'll be easy in/easy out of downtown!

(Also going to watch the Aero's play Friday night...Laffey and Cabrera are both rehabbing in AA so why not?)

06-27-2009, 11:43 PM
Got to see the Indians blew it against the Buccos Thursday night. And just read that DeRosa is now a Cardinal. Traded him for Reliver Chris Perez and a player to be named.

06-28-2009, 02:28 PM
Yeah, I'm just not sure about that...DeRosa was starting to get in rhythm, and how much help can one single reliver bring to a bullpen that effed up?

06-28-2009, 10:05 PM
I think Shapiro made the move as a last ditch effort to keep his job and show that he is trying to fix things.

06-29-2009, 07:44 AM
Cellar dwellers!

06-29-2009, 10:13 PM
Wow!!! Perez looked amazing out there tonight. If it was only that easy. Nice homers by Choo and Garko. I think Garko should be in the lineup everyday.

06-30-2009, 10:35 AM
Yeah, can we have a "do-over" on that trade? Jesus, guy only pitches 2/3rds of an inning, beans two batters in a row, then gives up 2 hits and 4 ER's.

I have tickets for tonight's game. I'm not going.

06-30-2009, 12:22 PM
sucks Perez hasnt played well in the majors, he is still fairley young though. I remember he was one of my favorite pitchers in college, and really wanted the Pirates to draft him.

Hope he picks things up for you guys

06-30-2009, 01:54 PM
Yeah, can we have a "do-over" on that trade? Jesus, guy only pitches 2/3rds of an inning, beans two batters in a row, then gives up 2 hits and 4 ER's.

I have tickets for tonight's game. I'm not going.

Id go with a sign proclaming my anger towards the front office.

06-30-2009, 02:04 PM
This has the smell of the beginnings of a fire sale to me.

07-06-2009, 08:57 AM
Every Indians fan should cringe at the news I read this morning. Shapiro says Wedge is safe for the rest of the season and they plan on contending this year.

07-06-2009, 09:22 AM
I'm not a fan of dumping managers in the middle of the season, so I get that. But he'll get his walking papers the day after the season is over.

Amazingly, they ARE still in contention, but only because they play in a lousy division. They are laying sub .400 ball and are only 12 back prior to the break. They could claw their way back into this thing if they'd ever get everybody on the same page. The schedule in July is favorable with series against the Sox, Tigers, Mariners, Blue Jays and Angels. Hell, they play Seattle 7 times this month alone.

07-06-2009, 09:50 AM
Im actually not a fan of firing mangers during the season but it might trigger something in them. If and I do mean IF they get everyone going the right direction they can make it interesting. They always seem to play better in the 2nd half of seasons anyway.

07-06-2009, 10:02 AM
If they can finish the second half at 50-30 ish, they'll be in the mix. Those 50 wins will have to be heavy with W's against Central foe's, though...

07-08-2009, 04:24 PM
I saw B.J Ryan was released today.I know he is Blue Jay trash but if we can get him cheap what the hell might be worth a shot.

07-09-2009, 07:42 AM
They have a pitcher shooting up through the ranks...he dominated at Akron, and his first start in Columbus last night he pitched 6 perfect. His name is Hector Rondon, and he's definitely on the Tribe's radar.

07-09-2009, 10:20 AM
I saw them talking about Rondon. When he gets called up where is he goin? Also have you heard anything about Westbrook? I havent seen anything about him in about 2 weeks.

07-09-2009, 10:47 AM
If he keeps pitching well, I expect they'll call Rondon up before July's end. I mean, they brought Laffey back up out of total desperation, and he SUCKED in rehab...

Westbrook had a setback, but i believe he is pitching simulated games now...Laffey will get sent back down when Jake can pitch again...

07-09-2009, 12:39 PM
I knew he had that setback but hadnt heard anything. I saw that Sowers was sent back to Columbus so that Betancourt can come off the DL today. I just hope Rondon dont have a Carmona complex.

07-14-2009, 11:03 AM
Tribe by the numbers...this really breaks it down well. It's long, so here are the "lowlights":


A team can start a season by averaging five runs, but does it by scoring 11, 2 and 2 runs. That is not ideal run distribution by any means (not to be confused with the fudge distribution described by Seinfeld while sitting in first class).

So my friend ''Jeff'' suggested it might be wise to delve further into the Indians' runs scored per game (almost Bill James style).

The results are not encouraging.

• The Indians have played 89 games and scored three runs or fewer 35 times.

They are 2-33 in those games.

When a team scores three runs or fewer, it absolutely has to have good pitching or a clutch hit to win. The Indians aren't getting either.

• They've scored four to six runs in 27 games, going 13-14.

When any team scores four to six runs, it should win its fair share — certainly more than half, which the Indians are not doing.

• They've scored seven runs or more in 27 games, and gone 20-7.

A team that loses seven games when it has scored seven runs or more clearly has poor pitching.

Compare the Indians to the league average.

• Teams that score three or fewer runs per game are winning 20 percent of the time. The Indians are at 0.6 percent.

• Teams that score four to six runs are winning 61 percent of the time. The Indians: 48 percent.

• Teams that score seven or more are at 86 percent. The Indians: 74 percent.

The Indians' pitching is bad, no question.

But it's compounded by the offense not coming through when the pitchers throw a good game. The Indians have lost eight of 24 times when the pitchers have given up three runs or fewer.

Then there's the defense.

Some baseball folks now use a statistic called a Defensive Efficiency Rating. It calculates the amount of times a team turns a ball put in play into an out.

The Los Angeles Dodgers lead the league with a DER of 72 percent (71.6 to be exact).

The league average is 69.1 percent. The Indians are worst in the American League at 67.7 percent.

These are ground balls not reached, fly balls that drop. It's an extra hit, an extra base, an extra at-bat for the opposition. They add up.

Then figure the pitching staff is loaded with guys who thrive on ''putting the ball in play.''

This is a team with bad pitching, inopportunistic hitting and slow-footed defensive players.

07-15-2009, 09:31 AM
In spite of their sucktitude, I'm still going to see them tomorrow night against Seattle.

07-15-2009, 11:11 AM
In the last few years they have been a 2nd half team. Maybe they get their crap together now.

07-15-2009, 11:30 AM
They are all but mathematically out of it...word is, Pavano's on the trading bloc...which smells a LOT like a fire sale.

I'm sitting in the RF "Home Run Alley"...if nothing else, I get to watch Ichiro play right up close...

07-15-2009, 12:21 PM
Out of curiosity who is all out there this offseason as a starter? We wiil only have 2 proven guys(Lee and Westbrook). Im not suprised they are wanting to trade Pavano. Teams will be wanting a vetern arm for the playoff race.

07-15-2009, 12:32 PM
I have no idea...Lee may be the next guy we trade, for all I know. There is some talk that they'll pay huge bucks to keep Lee, but that seems out of character for the new Indians.

My guess is they will just bring their own guys up, especially if they are in full-on "rebuild mode".

07-15-2009, 01:34 PM
I think we keep Lee and hope that Rondon is a stud and Carmona shows something postive.

07-16-2009, 08:36 AM
He's (Lee) going to command a HUGE salary. They'd be better to get this deal done now while his numbers are down...the longer they wait, the less likely he remains on the Tribe.

They have another up-and-coming P prospect named Jeanmar Gomez. He's pitching for Akron now...

07-17-2009, 08:28 AM
Went to Columbus last night and watched Carmona pitch. He struck out 7 and allowed2 runs with no walks. Tonight Rondon goes for the Clippers. Lewis and Perez both pitched and they looked good as well. LaPorta looked really good and Andy Marte hit his 12th HR of the season.

07-17-2009, 11:35 AM
That scares me, though...if they have this many up-and-comers, they may dump their quality players now for prospects and target 2012 as the next year to make a run.

07-20-2009, 02:54 PM
According to Japan's Sponichi, via NPB Tracker, Masahide Kobayashi was granted his release from the Indians on Sunday afternoon. The 35-year-old right-hander was demoted to Triple-A in mid-May and there were rumors at the time that his release might be imminent. Here's what Tim said back then:

The Indians signed Kobayashi to a two-year, $6.25MM deal in November of 2007. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but he posted a 5.10 ERA and 5.4 K/9 in 65.3 innings in his Tribe career.

07-20-2009, 04:29 PM
According to Japan's Sponichi, via NPB Tracker, Masahide Kobayashi was granted his release from the Indians on Sunday afternoon. The 35-year-old right-hander was demoted to Triple-A in mid-May and there were rumors at the time that his release might be imminent. Here's what Tim said back then:

The Indians signed Kobayashi to a two-year, $6.25MM deal in November of 2007. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but he posted a 5.10 ERA and 5.4 K/9 in 65.3 innings in his Tribe career.

It was one of the worst signings the Indians have made since Super Joe.

07-20-2009, 04:57 PM
The last few years of bullpen signings have been piss poor.

07-22-2009, 12:46 PM
Saw this and thought it was interesting.

7:44pm: Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun, watching the Blue Jays play the Indians at home, tweets the following: "Dodgers, Brewers, Phillies and Red Sox scouts here to see Cliff Lee..."

5:44pm: On an ESPN Baseball Tonight Minute, Peter Gammons downplayed the possibility that Cliff Lee might be making his last start as an Indian tonight, but indicated that the Indians are indeed open to a trade if they are "overwhelmed" by an offer.

According to Gammons, "[Indians GM Mark] Shapiro wants a major league-ready young starter that can go into the second or third hole in the rotation." In addition, Gammons said, "He wants a couple of other young players."

Earlier today, we broke down a piece by SI.com's Jon Heyman, who said that the Indians are becoming more open to trading Lee.

Also some think Pavano would be traded too. I dont see both going this year as that leaves us with nothing on the big league team. Also Ohka is rumored to be sent down to Columbus so Carmona can come back up.

07-22-2009, 02:51 PM
Lee's last two outtings have been stellar...he's pitched 18 (Yes, EIGHTEEN innings, two complete games) and has given up a total of two runs. He only threw 28 called balls last night. In those 18 innings he walked NO batters.He's STILL the best pitcher in the AL but he can't get run support to save his life. 6-9 BUT an ERA of 3.17, 103 K's to a mere 33 BB's.

I'll be shocked if he's an Indian come August 1. And if they trade Pavano, too, that's it...pure rebuild. The ONLY good news is they'll probably turn around and lock down Martinez after that happens...they NEED to keep him and Sizemore, as both are young enough to survive the rebuild until they can contend again, and they both provide veteran presence in the clubhouse on top of being undervalued superstars...which will be important for all the young pups coming up.

But realistically we need to be shooting for 75 wins now to salvage this season. 90 is fantasy, .500 is probably completely unrealistic, but 75-87 (They'd have to go 35-30 to hit that mark) is doable and gives them a strong second half to build on for next year.

07-23-2009, 02:49 PM
Betancourt traded for a A ball player today. Way to get someone that can replace him in the pen Shapiro. Also found these trade rumors.

The Rays are now pursuing Victor Martinez, Jon Heyman of SI.com reports. They have Jeff Niemann, Wade Davis and Jeremy Hellickson to offer the Indians, though the clubs aren't believed to have exchanged names. The Red Sox have many top young pitchers as well and have been discussing Martinez for weeks with the Indians. Boston remains interested in V-Mart, even after adding Adam LaRoche, but one GM believes the two clubs would have completed a deal weeks ago if one was going to happen.

1:07pm: Ken Rosenthal now hears that the Rays may involve a third team in the deal to provide the Indians with more pitching.

8:25am: No deal is imminent, but the Rays and Indians discussed a deal that would send Cliff Lee to the Rays for prospects, accoding to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Wade Davis is believed to be among the top prospects that interest Indians GM Mark Shapiro, but the Rays have been reluctant to deal the 23-year-old righty.

Davis isn't considered an elite prospect along the lines of Clay Buchholz or Tommy Hanson, but the Rays want to keep him and would be more open to dealing Reid Brignac. The Indians are said to want pitching in exchange for Lee, so it's likely the Rays would presumably have to part with some to acquire the reigning Cy Young Award winner.

ESPN.com's Jayson Stark says the Indians could deal Cliff Lee, but don't particularly want to. In other words, he's "quasi-available." We heard that the Rays and Indians discussed Lee and Stark says it's "not impossible" that the Rangers could pursue the Indians ace. Both teams would be able to trade the Indians the young, high-upside talent they seek.

Jon Heyman of SI.com says the Indians are more willing to part with Victor Martinez than Lee.

•ESPN.com's Peter Gammons says the Adam LaRoche acquisition won't prevent the Red Sox from pursuing an impact bat like Victor Martinez.

07-23-2009, 03:03 PM
Makes sense I guess. Keep Lee, and make him the centerpiece of your team. Deal Martinez and rely on Carlos Santana (The C working his way up, NOT the guitar player...LOL).

Personally, I want them to keep both and trade Pavano...but Carl didn't help himself much with his last shitty outing. That's best case scenario...dump Pavano for some young bullpen pitchers, and hope Westbrook and Carmona return to form for 2010.

07-24-2009, 07:52 AM
Rondon is 3-0 at Columbus now...look for him to be debuting as an Indian soon. Both Marte and LaPorta need promoted NOW! This season is over and they are both tearing it up in AAA.

07-27-2009, 01:36 PM
Carmona LaPorta and Marte need to be brought up. Wes Hodges needs to play everyday in AAA if he is gonna be our future 3b we need to see him play. Also dont look now we have won 4 out of 5.

07-27-2009, 01:57 PM
Not sure what to make of that (hate to get my hopes up)...but I have one more set of tickets to use, and I'm gonna use 'em!

07-28-2009, 08:10 AM
Nice win last night. Garko traded to Giants for a A pitcher who is 12-3. Not sure I like this deal in the long run because we traded out hottest hitters and the 1 guy that could replace Hafner if he dont return to form. Also just read that there is an offer to the Dodgers for Lee and Martinez and in return we would get Billingsly 1bLoney and a bunch of prospects. I dont like that trade at all. We dont need another 1b if LaPorta is gonna be brought up to play there.

07-28-2009, 08:26 AM
I don't think they'll take that deal...Shapiro LOVES Martinez, so it'll take a lot to get rid of him.

07-28-2009, 09:44 AM
Marte has been called up to play 1b.

07-28-2009, 09:48 AM
Marte has been called up to play 1b.
This is his last chance...

07-29-2009, 08:57 AM
Great article on Carlos Santana, the heir apparent to Vic Martinez. What a lot of people don't realize that 95% of the players in the MLB needed 2-4 years of playing everyday in the minors and winter ball before they were ready to make the leap, and even then the washout rate is high. That being said, if Martinez is shipped, it won't be the end of the World...


07-29-2009, 09:11 AM
Nice article. I may need to head up to Akron and see him play this month.

07-29-2009, 09:14 AM
I'll be there tonight...I've seen him a few times and he seems like the real deal.

07-29-2009, 12:44 PM
Lee and Fransico to Philadelphia???

12:38pm: MLB.com's Todd Zolecki hears that Ben Francisco would also come to Philly in the possible deal. He'd fit the team's need for a right-handed hitting outfielder.

12:29pm: Joel Sherman of the New York Post hears that the two sides are "very close" to completing a deal.

12:03pm: Gordon Edes and Tim Brown of Yahoo report that the Phillies appear to be "on the verge" of acquiring Cliff Lee from the Indians for Carrasco, Knapp and at least two of Donald, Marson and Michael Taylor.

Ken Rosenthal says the clubs are in discussions for Lee "and possibly another player." Knapp, Carrasco, Donald, and Marson would be involved. He wonders if the Indians might send some cash to secure a better prospect package.

11:36am: Rob Maaddi of the AP (via the Miami Herald) hears that the Phils offered the Indians a package of players for Lee, but didn't include Kyle Drabek in the proposal.

11:09am: Rosenthal and Morosi report that the Phillies are discussing a trade for Cliff Lee and possibly another player that would send Knapp, Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson to Cleveland.

10:54am: ESPN.com's Buster Olney hears that the Phils may try to acquire George Sherrill If they can't trade for Halladay or Lee.

10:52am: Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports report that Jason Knapp is the centerpiece of the Phillies' offer for Lee. The Phils, who are also involved in talks for Jarrod Washburn, would also deal other pieces to the Indians.

FOX also reports that the Dodgers were planning on making a "hard push" for Lee today.

10:34am: ESPN.com's Jayson Stark notes that three Indians scouts were in Lehigh Valley to watch the Phillies' Triple A team this morning. As we noted earlier, Carlos Carrasco was scratched from today's start and Stark says it was without explanation. Stark hears from a source close to the Indians who denies that the team is close to making a major move.

The Phillies and Indians have been involved in discussions, but haven't yet exchanged medical reports on players. One possible package would send Carrasco, a top position player, Jason Knapp and Trevor May to the Indians for Lee. The Phils tell other teams they believe they can deal for Lee without giving up Kyle Drabek or Dominic Brown.

07-29-2009, 01:04 PM
It appears to be done. All that is left is the medical records. We are getting 4 of the top 10 prospects in the Phillies system. Still we are trading a Cy Young pitcher for prospects and not even their best prospect Drabek. Pack it in when we have been playing good and have no solid pitching for 2010. I dont know what to think. Here is how it breaks down.

Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi report that the sides have agreed to a deal that sends Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco to Philly for Jason Knapp, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson. The teams still have to examine medical records for the deal to go through. Rosenthal reports that the deal would not include any cash. He calls the trade, which isn't yet official, a "coup" for both sides.

07-29-2009, 02:42 PM
A) Lee can't get run support with the Tribe anyway
B) He was gone after next year regardless
C) We are LOADED with prospects now
D) We can either sign Martinez long term or deal him for even MORE prospects and call up Santana.

We were done this year either way, but this is a chance for the Tribe to develop some young talent and sign them all to long-term deals in the next couple years...

07-29-2009, 11:56 PM
I just dont like the guys we got in return. Happs or Drabek should have been included. The key to the trade was Knapp who will report to Lake County. I know he was gonna leave and wasnt a fan of Shapiro but this one was like a kick to the gut. Shapiro said at the news conference that he has been told to cut payroll so I imagine Victor is all but gone as well.

07-30-2009, 08:18 AM
Actually, Shapiro stated that he was NOT instructed to reduce payroll. But he knew it was coming...here's his quote:

''I had no directive from ownership to move salary,'' Shapiro said. ''They were willing to take big losses next year, but with the understanding that I couldn't add to the club. Certainly, there was some chance we could contend in 2010, but I felt this was the better decision.''

BUT next year there is a lot of money due...Hafner 11.5 mil, Westbrook 11 mil. Wood 10.5. This also gives us a chance to sign Martinez, who I believe they will move to 1st base (one of the prospects was a catcher...how many C's can this roster support?). Fact is, they weren't going to be able to sign Lee anyway, so they got some long-term bang for him while they could.

Still, it's a fire sale and means the coffin nails are in the 2009 season. The fans are REALLY angry, but they shouldn't be...I like a lot of the prospects, and Shapiro has been a lot more hit than miss overall.

As for the players, Carrasco will probably break into the line-up soon, Lou Marson the catcher looks like a real nice offensive addition, Knapp will be more of a long-term prospect, but he looks like the guy who may have the most upside. Also, Connor Graham, the kid we got from the Rockies for Betancourt pitched 5 strong innings in Akron last night. He looks like he COULD be dominant down the road.

07-30-2009, 08:23 AM
I read that wrong last night. I was a lil shellshocked. Glad Graham looks good. The kid we got from SF is the one I wanna see pitch. I think Im gonna go to a Aeros game next week. Might as well check out some of these young kids.

07-30-2009, 09:03 AM
It's a great venue...no bad seats...but the last two times I've been there I sat right behind home plate.

Graham is HUGE, by the way...I think he's listed at 6'7", and his fastball looks like it's rolling in at about 100 MPH...

07-31-2009, 10:06 AM
Red Sox are after Victor and have offered Clay Buchholz.

07-31-2009, 10:17 AM
If they pull the trigger (they have until 4 today), we'd BETTER get something big! Victor is the best hitter on the team, and he's re-signable (unlike Lee).

07-31-2009, 01:23 PM
USA Today's Bob Nightengale via Twitter: the Red Sox are about to acquire first baseman/catcher Victor Martinez from the Indians. Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse, trying to confirm, says it "looks good." FOX Sports agrees. Heres the likely potential trade:

V-Mart and LaPorta to Boston

Buchholz, Bowden, Bard, Anderson to Cleveland

07-31-2009, 02:51 PM
11 minutes and no deal.

07-31-2009, 03:00 PM
SHIT! And it looks like we got nothing for him...this reeks of a salary dump...

AP Source: Red Sox, Indians agree to Martinez deal

By BEN WALKER, AP Baseball Writer 18 minutes ago

Buzz up! 1 vote

The Boston Red Sox have agreed to a deal to acquire All-Star slugger Victor Martinez(notes) from the Cleveland Indians.

A person familiar with Friday’s trade told The Associated Press the Indians would receive right-hander Justin Masterson(notes) and minor league pitchers Nick Hagadone and Bryan Price. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the trade had not been announced.

Teams had until 4 p.m. EDT to complete deals without waivers.

The 30-year-old Martinez has split his time at catcher and first base this season. He is hitting .284 with 15 home runs and 67 RBIs.

07-31-2009, 03:16 PM
By the way, welcome to superstardom, Victor. In a market as big as Boston, he'll finally get the recognition he deserves. He's also a really quality guy, so their clubhouse just got an upgrade, too...

Lee I can accept...this one stings a bit.

07-31-2009, 04:22 PM

We trade two of our best damn players and get prospects and a bullpen guy who can start in a pinch?

I am strictly a Pirates fan now, at least they don't give me expectations.

My dad said he is now a Phillies fan since half of the team was once in the Indians system.

07-31-2009, 07:29 PM
Lee I see...this I'm skeptical of.

HOWEVER, if all or most of these kids can really ball, Shapiro will look like a genius in 2-3 years.

08-01-2009, 01:20 AM
After seeing this team dismantled and nothing in return but prospects Im in shock. The people on ESPN were even saying we didnt get enough for Cliff and did ya see him throw a CG tonight?? This one is like cutting off your hand right after you had already severed the fingers. Im gonna miss Martinez as he was probably my favorite Indian. Shapiro better be a damn genius because to the people outside of that organization he looks like a fool. I know salary had to be dumped as none was gonna be taken on this winter but still with a few guys being healthy they really could have competed. Trade Peralta and let Marte play third that wouldve saved them serious cash. Im just shellshocked.

08-01-2009, 02:53 PM
The Dolans need to sell the team to someone who actually wants to put a competitive product on the damn field. You gotta spend some money to make it, putting a crap product on the field and trading your excellent players for prospects isn't the way to bring fans to the ballpark.

Mark Shapiro has to go. You cannot trade Cliff Lee and not get the #1 prospect in the Phillies system.

You cannot trade Martinez and not get Bucholtz (know it's spelled wrong, don't care) in return.

And Wedge needs the boot too.

08-02-2009, 10:28 AM
Salary dropped form 83 million to 59 million next year...and they are going to lose 10-20 million this year depending on just how bad tickets sales fall off.

Bottom line is this is a bottom line business. Dolan's have one more chance in my book, but they MUST be in contention by 2011, and show marked improvement next year. I also do not espouse firing Wedge...he's not the problem, the lack of hitting and pitching is. Hopefully enough of these young projects pan out and we see a return to form down the road...

Sheldon Ocker's piece sums it all up pretty succinctly. I'd say Ocker is the most knowledgeable guy on the planet about the Indians outside the organization itself...


Ocker: Fans know next season already gone

By Sheldon Ocker
Beacon Journal sports writer

POSTED: 07:54 p.m. EDT, Aug 01, 2009

Wednesday was another sad day for Indians fans, who know a sad day when they see one.

Tribe partisans frequently have choked on their morning coffee listening to a voice on the radio announce that a favorite player has being traded, and they have spent many a dreary lunch watching a TV talking head reveal that the team's top pitcher or marquee hitter has been labeled unaffordable by the owner.

Those kinds of revelations have become almost routine in Northeast Ohio, and folks around here have steeled themselves to the emotions that usually accompany such moves.

Last year, when CC Sabathia was dealt to the Milwaukee Brewers, expressions of fury and disillusionment were almost nil. The fans knew for many months that Sabathia was on his way out and bought into the concept that no team but the New York Yankees or Boston Red Sox could afford his next contract.

But hearing that Cliff Lee was traded for four minor-leaguers — and two days later that Victor Martinez was following him out of town — was much more ominous.

Lee had one more (option) year on his contract before it expired. His 2010 salary of $9 million is not extreme to any but the most financially distressed teams in baseball. Yet, he was being sold to the highest bidder, and the coin of the realm received in return seemed far from golden.

The scenario was similar for Martinez, who could have been kept next year with the exercise of a $7 million option and who did not bring anything close to a bonanza of talent in return.

In explaining the reasons for the transaction, General Manager Mark Shapiro included this gloomy item: If he chose to keep Lee, hoping the club would contend in 2010, he would have to do it without adding a single player of value to the roster. Not one.

Shapiro retracted that statement after trading Martinez, saying that there might be enough cash in the vault to sift through the free-agent market in the offseason. But it's unlikely he was talking about adding an impact player who earns impact-player money.

Logic dictates that owners Larry and Paul Dolan had already determined the economic outlook of the Tribe was so sketchy (is dire too strong a word?) that Shapiro needed to trade Lee and Martinez a year early, even though Shapiro denies it.

That left the GM with one reasonable course of action. He would try to collect as many prospects as possible and position the team to contend for several years beyond 2010.

In doing so, Shapiro insisted that he was ''not directed'' to dump salary. However, given the fact that Shapiro did not acquire any No. 1 or No. 2 prospects in return for a Cy Young Award winner and an All-Star catcher (remember that Baseball America's prospect rankings were preseason, not current), it is absurd to think he made the deals for any reason other than to ease the pressure on the bottom line. If the GM was not ordered to subtract payroll, he knew enough to take a hint.

Shapiro also said he was not ready to ''entirely turn the page'' on contending next season. While contending probably is possible (and Paris Hilton might become a kindergarten teacher), the reality is that next year is being written off.

Shapiro is keenly aware that trading Lee and Martinez will have a devastating effect on next year's attendance. If the Dolans were concerned about diminishing revenue before discarding Lee and Martinez, they should be in a full panic now.

Coming in on budget this year was dependent on drawing about 2.2 million fans. The club will be fortunate to fall only 400,000 short of that figure and sell about $8 million fewer tickets than anticipated. That is in addition to plunging revenue for concessions and merchandise.

I don't know what the Tribe business department will come up with as a reasonable goal for 2010, but I'm thinking the team will be lucky to draw 1.5 million, less than half of what the Indians lured to the ballpark in the glory seasons of the '90s.

At the moment, the team is committed to paying six players a total of $48 million in 2010. The other 19 players who make up the 25-man roster probably will make no more than $11 million (I'm not expecting the Tribe to keep Carl Pavano), which means the opening day payroll will drop from $81.5 million to about $59 million, maybe a little less.

By trading Lee and Martinez, Shapiro is telling the public that he is giving up not only on this year but next, regardless of what concept he thinks he is communicating. And there are no guarantees that 2011, 2012, 2013 and beyond will mark a return to contending status.

We have come to know that if a star player or solid veteran reaches free agency in Cleveland, he will not be re-signed. That means Grady Sizemore and Travis Hafner will be former Indians by 2013, and Jake Westbrook (if he pitches well enough upon his return from surgery) will be gone next year.

Even if several prospects turn out to be primary contributors — and remember, it takes three to five years after they debut for most players to reach maturity — the veterans in a position to make the most impact will be on their way out.

This is a game that's almost impossible to win, because just when a team is ready to become a legitimate force, a key player or two is banished. Can Shapiro get lucky and win a World Series under this sort of handicap? Sure, the Florida Marlins did it twice. But the odds are overwhelmingly against him.

For this franchise to be successful, the Dolans must sign a few selected players to lengthy contracts worth tens of millions of dollars or continue the current roller-coaster ride to nowhere.

The St. Louis Cardinals signed Albert Pujols to a seven-year, $100 million deal; the Chicago White Sox locked up Mark Buehrle for four years and $56 million; the Texas Rangers are paying Michael Young $80 million over five years; Todd Helton is making $141 million on a nine-year contract with the Colorado Rockies; even the small market Minnesota Twins are paying Joe Nathan $47 million for four years and Justin Morneau $80 million for six years.

If the Tribe can't compete with these teams financially, there is something fundamentally wrong with the way the Dolans are running the club. I'm all for fiscal responsibility, but that has to mean more than trimming budgets to the bone or letting the GM sign a starting pitcher for $1.5 million.

This year has been a disaster, mostly because of mistakes by Shapiro, a series of unavoidable injuries and some misjudgments by manager Eric Wedge. The Dolans have been the least of the team's problems, but that doesn't take them off the hook in the long term.

Unless Shapiro has the resources to win, he won't win, and the spiral of diminishing revenue will do nothing but increase in speed and intensity, regardless of the state of Cleveland's economy.

In 2010, all the fireworks shows and bobblehead giveaways in baseball won't bring Indians fans out of the closet. They will spend their money on the Cavaliers and maybe the Browns (heaven forbid) and anticipate further bad news on the baseball front.

They know from experience that's the only thing they can count on.

08-02-2009, 09:53 PM
If they ever trade Grady that will be the straw that breaks the camels back with the fans.

08-02-2009, 09:54 PM
The Dolans need to sell the team to someone who actually wants to put a competitive product on the damn field. You gotta spend some money to make it, putting a crap product on the field and trading your excellent players for prospects isn't the way to bring fans to the ballpark.

Mark Shapiro has to go. You cannot trade Cliff Lee and not get the #1 prospect in the Phillies system.

You cannot trade Martinez and not get Bucholtz (know it's spelled wrong, don't care) in return.

And Wedge needs the boot too.

I agree and I think every Tribe fan alive would as well. The guys they got may turn out great but for the fans perspective you need that big name kinda like the CC trade.

08-03-2009, 07:51 AM
Well, the primary reason was that, even though Shapiro wasn't directed to do it, salary had to be dumped. They are probably lucky they got as much as they did considering the other teams knew the desperate situation the Tribe was in...

08-04-2009, 09:10 AM
Found this over on baseballamerica.com. Its the top 10 prospects in the Indians now.

1. Carlos Santana, c
Stolen from the Dodgers last summer in the Casey Blake trade.
2. Matt LaPorta, of
Scouts are cooling a little on the centerpiece of the C.C. Sabathia trade.
3. Lonnie Chisenhall, 3b
Surprise 2008 first-rounder is hitting just like the Indians hoped.
4. Jason Knapp, rhp
One of the hardest throwers in the lower minors is out with shoulder fatigue
5. Nick Hagadone, lhp
Has regained power stuff after Tommy John surgery, might be a reliever.
6. Alex White, rhp
Tremendous value pick at 15th overall in the 2009 draft, though still unsigned.
7. Nick Weglarz, of
Lefthanded version of LaPorta with a chance to surpass him down the road.
8. Hector Rondon, rhp
He and Weglarz are the only guys on this list who were Indians before June 2008.
9. T.J. House, lhp
Signed for $750,000 as a 16th-round pick in 2008.
10. Carlos Carrasco, rhp
What he has in stuff he has lacked in poise and results in the upper minors.

Also the guy who wrote that said the Indians didnt get enough for Lee.

08-04-2009, 02:01 PM
Well, a couple silver lining type things:
A) We still have some talent on the team, a couple real good baseball players, like Sizemore and Choo. Cabrera looks like he's going to be the real deal now that he's settled in a bit. Trevor Crowe will benefit from playing every day now.
B) Hafner could still be a premier power DH if he ever gets healthy again.
C) Pitching-wise, Huff has been a nice find. Fausto could return to form. Westbrook will be back in the lineup by 9-1 (although I'm not sure they'll pay to keep him if he looks solid)
D) We have TONS of prospects at the position where earlier this year that cupboard was largely empty.

A couple things go our way, and a couple kids develop a little ahead of schedule and we could have a real nice 2010.

08-05-2009, 08:22 AM
I think Hafner will be better next year. He is still having shoulder soreness this year and just like most athletes the 2nd year after it they return to form.

08-05-2009, 08:27 AM
Spoke too soon about Huff. He got shelled last night, and they'll most likely ship him down to Columbus and move Masterson into the rotation, since the plan was always to make him a starter...

08-07-2009, 11:08 AM
Might not be doing that now. Pavano traded to the Twins. Read yesterday that Dolan says he will lose 16 Million this year and more are in store next season. Jess Todd looked pretty good yesterday by the way.

08-07-2009, 02:20 PM
For the dreaded "Player to be named later"...ugh.

09-24-2009, 09:29 AM
So 2 weeks left in the Tribes season and they have lost 10 straight. Masterson dosent belong in the rotation.

09-24-2009, 02:12 PM
Worst implosion by tribe teams since the early 90's...I think Wedge is gone for sure...

Top 5 draft pick though...don't get many of those in Cleveland...

10-01-2009, 07:27 AM
Ding dong, Wedge is gone...

Not sure how much difference it will make, but the act is done...

10-01-2009, 08:30 AM
We knew it was gonna happen. Ive never been a fan of his managerial style but really seems like a good guy and I wish him the best. I still think they should have done it back in June and maybe brought in Mike Hargrove to finish the season and see if something couldve happened. Anyways a new guy next year. Any ideas on who?

10-02-2009, 07:47 AM
Absolutely not...and I doubt anyone they get will do any better. Weird thought that they fired him, but kept him on to finish the season. Show's that they respect him a lot...

10-25-2009, 11:27 PM
Manny Acta is the new skipper. Also ya gotta loath the pitching matchup game 1 of the World Series. CC vs Cliff Lee. Thats gotta kill any Tribe fan.