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View Full Version : The Official Alphonso Smith Bandwagon Thread


The Definiti0n
03-11-2009, 08:32 AM
Im driving. Who's riding shotgun? Dont push there is plenty of room for all of Steeler Nation .:tt03::tt03:

"They're going to get a player that's extremely smart, understands the game, works extremely hard and they get a natural winner.All my life, I've been a winner. All my life, I've had this attitude where I don't care who you are, where you've been, who your father is, who you play for, I don't care. It's me vs. you, and I'm going to try and come out on top. That goes for everyone."--Alphonso Smith

:tt::tt::tt:

Fire Haley
03-11-2009, 09:05 AM
He's a possibility. But I'd rather take a big ugly on the OL in the 1st.

I'd go for Darius Butler in the 2nd though.

Butler has the athletic ability to consider using on offense or as a returner on special teams, but his value lies on the defensive side of the ball. Athletic enough for man and yet well versed in zone coverage due to Connecticut's reliance on this coverage throughout much of his career, Butler is among the more versatile cornerbacks in the draft. He has the anticipation, explosive burst back to the ball and size to translate into a zone coverage scheme at the NFL level, and really opened eyes at the Senior Bowl with his agility for man coverage and at Combine with his eye-popping overall athleticism.

Butler doesn't have the big name of a Malcolm Jenkins, Vontae Davis or Alphonso Smith, but the four year starter, two year captain may be as sure a prospect as any of them.

calsteeler
03-11-2009, 10:19 AM
It seems just when I post a thread where I state that selecting Alphonso Smith at 32 would be a mistake, someone comes in and starts this thread gyping him up. As I said, I like the guy personally. But no way can anyone defend him with proven on the field performance that he is any better than Cincinnati's Mike Mickens. Yes Smith has a career total of 21 picks. But he also has given up way more TD's as well. His small lower body scares me a bit that he could breakdown eventually. And in our system, he does not translate very well, at least to me.


In a " Pure cover-2 " I think Smith could do well, and venture out to take those chances. But the only time Pittsburgh ever tried a cover-2,,,was in the Super Bowl, and how did that play out ? We lost the lead on that long TD to Fitzgerald. Mickens was a starter from Day one in Cincy. He has 14 picks to Smith's 21 yes. But, in 47 career games to Smith's 51, Mickens has 5 more PBU's than smith..( 45 to 40 )...he has 233 career tackles to Smith's 188. His return yardage in 7 less interceptions is more, WAY MORE than Smith's 21, which to me proves that Mickens does more with most of his picks after the catch than Smith does. And as noted, Mickens is a legit 6 footer. He also is 2 full years younger than Smith. Not that thats a huge deal, but Smith will be a 24 year old rookie.


I'm not sold on a Big Ugly at 32 either cause I doubt there will be a difference maker there that we could not select later on. But for this threads purpose, Alphonso is not an elite DB, and certainly, statistically is NOT a better more proven player than Mike Mickens.


But I respect your own thoughts Definition. :-)

The Definiti0n
03-11-2009, 11:18 AM
[QUOTE][I'm not sold on a Big Ugly at 32 either cause I doubt there will be a difference maker there that we could not select later on. But for this threads purpose, Alphonso is not an elite DB, and certainly, statistically is NOT a better more proven player than Mike Mickens.][QUOTE]
That I agree with. I dont think there will be a lineman at 32 that will be a upgrade over our starters.

But as for a the Mickens or Smith debate. I feel that both will be good pros. But with Smith there is an added value in the kick/punt return game. With us selecting at 32 we need to get value as well as a player that can play mutiple postions. Also Smith has that "It" factor that big play ball hawk mentality that our defensive backfield hasnt had in a while.

calsteeler
03-11-2009, 12:07 PM
Definition:

You state that Smith has that " It " factor, a Ball hawk per se. But what about Mickens is any less ? I mean he is every bit the Ball hawk. Only with better coverage skills and tackling skills. This is a undeniable fact. As for Kickoff returns and punt returns, yes Smith has done that at Wake, but he was average at it at best. Plus, it appears that the steelers are going to sign Tennessee's Chirs Carr. Carr is an excellant return man. He was 3rd in the league in kickoff average at nearly 29Yds a return. And he was in double digits as a punt returner averaging more than 10 Yds a return.


Carr is a NFL PROVEN return guy, and decent Dime DB. So whatever possible return skills that Smith may bring is a moot point. Bottom line, Mickens is better suited for our Isolation cover schemes where with our Blitz packages, our corners are constantly in man coverage. And that's where Mickens is great at, and Smith is below average at. Like I said, in a pure cover-2 defense Smith might get the nod over Mickens. But we don't play that. Nor should we ever with our personell.

The Definiti0n
03-11-2009, 12:48 PM
Until Carr is signed I wouldnt assume. Also they only person I ever heard mention Mickens superior cover skills is you. On the other hand its been reported that our scouts are taking a looooong hard look at my guy. Alphonso "Prime" Smith.

If we do sign Carr then our depth chart will be:
Taylor
Gay/Smith<<Training Camp Battle
Townsend
Carr.

The Definiti0n
03-11-2009, 01:04 PM
Highlights of our future Pro Bowler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED9C6JWaoPg<<HIGHLIGHTS :popcorn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO3C6tOxCtg <<<<PLAYMAKER:popcorn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWcP-G4myh0 <<<<<JACKED UP:tt02::tt02:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEUdRqAxgs <<<<<JACKED UP!!!!:rofl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRYmZEIXZAo <<<BALL HAWKIN ABILITY:tt::tt:

BehindSteelCurtain
03-11-2009, 11:38 PM
On top of that, he wears a visor..........GET HIM

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-12-2009, 12:43 AM
I got no problem with Smith, Butler or Keenan Lewis from Oregon St. The fact that there is a deep class of CB's might mean that we dont need to get one in the 1st round.

As for a big ugly that is a "difference maker". Please tell me if Jake Long, Brandon Albert, Ryan Clady, Joe Thomas, Tony Ugoh or any O lineman has ever been considered a difference maker.

Bottom line is that experienced guys like Parcells know you build a team with a solid base of linemen. That is why he picked Jake Long OT, Philip Merling DT and Kendall Langford DE with his first 3 picks of last years draft. A solid Offensive or Defensive lineman makes much more sense than a CB in round 1, but we will see.

calsteeler
03-12-2009, 09:27 AM
I got no problem with Smith, Butler or Keenan Lewis from Oregon St. The fact that there is a deep class of CB's might mean that we dont need to get one in the 1st round.

As for a big ugly that is a "difference maker". Please tell me if Jake Long, Brandon Albert, Ryan Clady, Joe Thomas, Tony Ugoh or any O lineman has ever been considered a difference maker.

Bottom line is that experienced guys like Parcells know you build a team with a solid base of linemen. That is why he picked Jake Long OT, Philip Merling DT and Kendall Langford DE with his first 3 picks of last years draft. A solid Offensive or Defensive lineman makes much more sense than a CB in round 1, but we will see.



Gonzo, Everyone you mentioned was practically a top-10 selection. I said at number 32 there will likely be no difference maker on the O-line. Which is why I advocate a different positional player.
As for your pimping Billy-Boy Parcells as the " End All-Be All " of superior knowledge, with his first 3 picks last year. Well Duh!, Jake Long was a no-Brainer. But the other 2, merling & Langford, well Merling is a DE Gonzo, NOT a DT. He's never played DT in his entire life. And he was a border-line BUST considering gow much PT he was given being the first pick in round 2. I mean if Parcells is this Genius, how is it that the Purdue GE, Cliff Avril, who BTW I personally advocated the Steelers selecting last year, well he was selected LATE in round 3 by the Lions. Had Crappy teammates around him, and yet was twice the DE that Merling & Langford are " COMBINED "



And if as you say great teams are built around the Linemen, how is it that we have won 2 SB's the past 4 years without selecting a single Linemen in the first 2 rounds the past 10 years ? We have had statistically the leagues WORST O-Line the past 3 years, and yet we won DESPITE that,,,,not because of that.



Gonzo, at 32, even if the AZ OT is there, or the U-Conn OT, or Duje Robinson, or Unger or even Mack...NONE of those guys are more proven O-linemen then say 5 to 6 others I can easily name that can be had late in the 3rd rounds, or beyond. ? The guys you mentioned above were " Elite Level " talents when coming out. All tops among their draft classes. We wouldn't have gotten Jake Long last year even IF we offered every single pick we owned last year to Miami, along with say James Harrison, and Troy Palomala to the Dolphins. Your Boy would have just laughed in Colbert's face.


I mean considering as YOU said Gonzo, How much Billy loves those Linemen :-)

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-12-2009, 11:14 AM
Gonzo, Everyone you mentioned was practically a top-10 selection. I said at number 32 there will likely be no difference maker on the O-line. Which is why I advocate a different positional player.
As for your pimping Billy-Boy Parcells as the " End All-Be All " of superior knowledge, with his first 3 picks last year. Well Duh!, Jake Long was a no-Brainer. But the other 2, merling & Langford, well Merling is a DE Gonzo, NOT a DT. He's never played DT in his entire life. And he was a border-line BUST considering gow much PT he was given being the first pick in round 2. I mean if Parcells is this Genius, how is it that the Purdue GE, Cliff Avril, who BTW I personally advocated the Steelers selecting last year, well he was selected LATE in round 3 by the Lions. Had Crappy teammates around him, and yet was twice the DE that Merling & Langford are " COMBINED "



And if as you say great teams are built around the Linemen, how is it that we have won 2 SB's the past 4 years without selecting a single Linemen in the first 2 rounds the past 10 years ? We have had statistically the leagues WORST O-Line the past 3 years, and yet we won DESPITE that,,,,not because of that.



Gonzo, at 32, even if the AZ OT is there, or the U-Conn OT, or Duje Robinson, or Unger or even Mack...NONE of those guys are more proven O-linemen then say 5 to 6 others I can easily name that can be had late in the 3rd rounds, or beyond. ? The guys you mentioned above were " Elite Level " talents when coming out. All tops among their draft classes. We wouldn't have gotten Jake Long last year even IF we offered every single pick we owned last year to Miami, along with say James Harrison, and Troy Palomala to the Dolphins. Your Boy would have just laughed in Colbert's face.


I mean considering as YOU said Gonzo, How much Billy loves those Linemen :-)

Sorry for using DT instead of DE to describe Merling. :rolleyes: I know that he plays DE in a 3-4. My arguement is that linemen are rarely ever considered "impact players", but are essential to building a team. That is how Parcells and others build and rebuilds teams ........starting up front and he has been successful.

The Steelers have a solid D line, but aging. The O line everybody knows is a weakness and we won the SB despite them. As for SB XL......Smith, Hartings, Faneca, Simmons, Starks, Hampton, Smith, VonOlhoffen.....were solid core of linemen.

William Beatty, Alex Mack, Eric Wood, Duke Robinson are much better than what you will find in round 3 like Louis Vasquez, Ray Feinga, Trevor Cantwell, Jonathon Luigs, Xavier Fulton, Augustus Parrish. You build a house by laying the foundation first........not by trying to install windows. Again, I have no problem with a CB, but think 90% of Steeler fans recognize we have other more pressing needs with Taylor, Townsend and Gay under contract already.

MasterOfPuppets
03-12-2009, 11:42 AM
And if as you say great teams are built around the Linemen, how is it that we have won 2 SB's the past 4 years without selecting a single Linemen in the first 2 rounds the past 10 years ? We have had statistically the leagues WORST O-Line the past 3 years, and yet we won DESPITE that,,,,) really ?:huh: ....lets see...alan faneca...FIRST ROUND...kendal simmons...FIRST ROUND.....casey hampton...FIRST ROUND.....marvel smith....SECOND ROUND.

calsteeler
03-12-2009, 11:58 AM
Gonzo: The players you mentioned again are NOT considered any better than many others. I can tell you right now Mack will be a border libe Bust. He is not a great NFL Center. He's a bit too tall, and extremely soft. A more finess player. I like the U-conn Tackle, but he had a horrible senior Bowl week. He had a good combine which vaulted him back up there. As for Vasquez, I followed him several games, and he IS a pile driving Guard. Super strong, and a great attitude. As for drafting a Center, I will guarantee you right now Gonzo that Pittsburgh WILL draft the kid from Penn State AQ Shippley. The Steelers have Interviewed him twice now. He is a pure center who is as strong as any Linemen in the draft, and a tough as nails kid.


Yes I agree that i think our O-line needs to be better. But, besides faneca in 2004, who was a high pick ? Smith was a late 2nd rounder. Kemo & Colon were low picks. And Starkes was a 3rd rounder. And yet we won with those guys. Not because of them for sure, but according to Ben, they're great :-)


I agree we need depth on the D-Line as well. But who ? Tyson Jackson was a non enity in college. Oh he has great measurables, but that doesn't mean anything. Tyson had trouble gaining seperation from Linemen on a 4 man line. It would be worse in a 3-4. I love the Texas kid Miller, a dominate strong man who CAN learn from Hampton, and be a replacement for him in time. I also like the Michigan kid Taylor. He didn't play with other good teammates, so his numbers weren't all that. But, in the post season All-star games, he was very good, and is a fast-riser in this draft. He also is a accomplished wrestler, and he has great foot speed & Balance. Remember Gonzo, the steelers had great success with another player who had a wrestling background, remember him ?


Bottom line Gonzo is that even IF it's not considered a popular opinion here except by me. Unless there is a strange event on draft day where a O-Linemen or D-Linemen falls to us at 32 that no one thought would be there, and IF he is still there, I would take UNc WR Nicks. Although as great as he has been performing these past weeks, I doubt he might fall to 32. But if he does, he would be a great selection cause I seen him alot, and he reminds me of a Michael irvin type of talent.


He totally creamed Definition's Boy Alphonzo Smith last season for 9 catches and 100 + Yds and 2 TD's. And he would have Creamed him again this season IF Wake would have played them, but they didn't. Smith also got abused by the only other high level WR talent in this years draft, and that was Darrius heyward-Bey. Bey and Maryland killed Smith and Wake Forest at the tune off 11 catches for 160 + Yds.


Oh yeah, Smith looked real good against the scrub teams and scrub WR's they he matched up against. But no such teams or players play on Sundays :-)

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-12-2009, 12:10 PM
Gonzo: The players you mentioned again are NOT considered any better than many others. I can tell you right now Mack will be a border libe Bust. He is not a great NFL Center. He's a bit too tall, and extremely soft. A more finess player. I like the U-conn Tackle, but he had a horrible senior Bowl week.

Calli....I agree with you that Tyson Jackson is a workout warrior , but never impressed me. I also think that Vasquez is a solid player despite playing in that spread offense at Tech.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG ABOUT ALEX MACK !! Did you watch the Sr. Bowl week? Did you read reports?? Have you watched Cal games for the past 2-3 seasons like I have?? Mack is soft and finesse in the same way that Casey Hampton is soft. He was the only guy to handle BJ Raji and blocks like a warrior.

-Mack has by far the quickest and most powerful punch at the Senior Bowl.

-Mack's strength is impressive in the pivot. Both guys play nasty, which every offensive line coach loves. - Chad Reuter, The Sports Xchange, NFLDraftScout.com

-Mack, on the other hand, is the more physical of the two and has the better anchor in pass protection. He and Raji provided some classic battles on the inside Tuesday, with Mack being the only of the North's interior lineman able to at least earn a stalemate on the day against Raji.

-The only guy who was able to handle Raji was Cal center Alex Mack, who was easily the best offensive linemen on the North squad and who was considerably better than Oregon's Max Unger

-Mack was beaten a few times by Raji during the team period, but Raji has not been slowed down much at all this week and Mack returned the favor in one-on-one drills, doing a nice job of dropping his hips and anchoring against 334-pound Raji. Mack also continued to do a great job of sliding and mirroring rushers while displaying the ability to redirect when caught out of position. Mack is the clear-cut leader among centers from both rosters.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=166&f=1419&t=3823121

Yeah, Mack really sounds.............soft. :rolleyes:

calsteeler
03-12-2009, 12:13 PM
really ?:huh: ....lets see...alan faneca...FIRST ROUND...kendal simmons...FIRST ROUND.....casey hampton...FIRST ROUND.....marvel smith....SECOND ROUND.




Oh really ? Well lets see...


Faneca...Cut/released
Simmons, hurt during this SB, then Cut
M.Smith, Ah, exactly how much PT did he play in this SB ? Oh and BTW, he was a mid-to late 2nd rounder, not a 1st. Also, I love Hampton, but remind me again what he did this SB ? And how many Pts are D gave up in the 4th quarter. Also, our OTHER TWO D-Linemen, what rounds were they taken in again ?



You should teach professionally in school dude...Cherry-picking 101 :-)



Don't quit your day job.

fansince'76
03-12-2009, 12:23 PM
Oh really ? Well lets see...


Faneca...Cut/released
Simmons, hurt during this SB, then Cut
M.Smith, Ah, exactly how much PT did he play in this SB ? Oh and BTW, he was a mid-to late 2nd rounder, not a 1st. Also, I love Hampton, but remind me again what he did this SB ? And how many Pts are D gave up in the 4th quarter. Also, our OTHER TWO D-Linemen, what rounds were they taken in again ?



You should teach professionally in school dude...Cherry-picking 101 :-)



Don't quit your day job.

This coming from someone who thinks we have a ton of money to play with under the cap but won't because the Rooneys are "cheap," and thinks that the Pats have ALWAYS been major players in FA. :rolleyes:

MasterOfPuppets
03-12-2009, 12:27 PM
Oh really ? Well lets see...


Faneca...Cut/released
Simmons, hurt during this SB, then Cut
M.Smith, Ah, exactly how much PT did he play in this SB ? Oh and BTW, he was a mid-to late 2nd rounder, not a 1st. Also, I love Hampton, but remind me again what he did this SB ? And how many Pts are D gave up in the 4th quarter. Also, our OTHER TWO D-Linemen, what rounds were they taken in again ?



You should teach professionally in school dude...Cherry-picking 101 :-)



Don't quit your day job.dude you made the STUPID statement that 0 linemen have been picked in the first 2 rounds the last 10 years.... i busted ya on it now your gonna try the old deflection tactic...:jerkit:

Originally Posted by calsteeler View Post
And if as you say great teams are built around the Linemen, how is it that we have won 2 SB's the past 4 years without selecting a single Linemen in the first 2 rounds the past 10 years

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-12-2009, 12:35 PM
dude you made the STUPID statement that 0 linemen have been picked in the first 2 rounds the last 10 years.... i busted ya on it now your gonna try the old deflection tactic...:jerkit:

MOP, you are just "cherry picking". Oh, wait..............I referred to Philip Merling as a DT and not a DE, which was thankfully pointed out some perfectionists. :chuckle:

calsteeler
03-12-2009, 12:39 PM
When did I ever say the Pats were " MAJOR " players in free agency ? I said as a good team, like ours, they lose some key players, and yet rather than take the absolute bottom of the barrel free agents, they sign " Key " Vet replacements. Players like R.Harrison, or Wes Welker. Moss doesn't count cause one, he was traded, not signed. And he also insisted on ONLY playing for the Pats. Also, C.Dillion was instramental in the pats winning a SB as well. The " Cheap " comment was out of line, I admit that. But still, we should have jumped on improving our Center, like say with Matt Birk who Baltimore signed to replace Brown. And yes, I do think that early on they should have Inquired about OT's like Gross or Carey before offering the Franchise Tag to a player like Starkes, who I guaantee you has little to NO interest to other league GM's. It was a waste of over 8 million dollars, and a wasted opportunity to Improve on a O-line that has given up more sacks on ben the past three seasons than either P.Manning and Tom Brady have had on them their entire careers so far combined! A true fact BTW. This is why i feel ben is the most disrespected QB in the league, and the BEST QB IMHO. Cause IF Ben had the Indy O-line protecting him that Manning had in several of those seasons, or the one Brady had, Ben would be " All World "


But this is a draft discussion, not a free agency one. And bottom line, if and I say IF a player like WR Nicks is still there at 32, and there is no " Clear cut " O or D-Linemen at 32 who would be a dramaticly higher level talent than say we could get at 64 or beyond, then yes, I say take Nicks cause Sweed is still up in the air as to whether or not he will EVER gets his head right, or his hands right. And with Nate gone, and Hines close to dropping talent wise cause of age, and Holmes our ONLY young WR talent. Upping the talent there would be wise to do. And Nicks is the " Real Deal "

MasterOfPuppets
03-12-2009, 12:47 PM
stick to your day job -------------> :jerkit:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-12-2009, 12:49 PM
The Steelers tagged Starks the day that Gross signed his long term deal and Carey was reportedly signing his deal. I dont like Starks talent, but he was considered by many the #3 OT in free agency, so saying that noGM in the league wanted him is a bit crazy.

You point out that our O line gives up sacks and Ben has no protection, but would rather take Hakeem Nicks in the 1st so he can be the #3 or #4 WR and watch Ben get sacked because we didnt address the O line again. Makes no sense to me other than WR and CB are glamour picks.

Oh yeah......and Alex Mack is soft. :rofl:

MasterOfPuppets
03-12-2009, 01:41 PM
The Steelers tagged Starks the day that Gross signed his long term deal and Carey was reportedly signing his deal. I dont like Starks talent, but he was considered by many the #3 OT in free agency, so saying that noGM in the league wanted him is a bit crazy.

You point out that our O line gives up sacks and Ben has no protection, but would rather take Hakeem Nicks in the 1st so he can be the #3 or #4 WR and watch Ben get sacked because we didnt address the O line again. Makes no sense to me other than WR and CB are glamour picks.

Oh yeah......and Alex Mack is soft. :rofl:
what cracks me up, is in 1 post he implies that olinemen aren't that neccessary for success, so why waste a high pick on one, then he turns around and advocates getting into a bidding war for gross or carey....::screwy:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-12-2009, 01:53 PM
what cracks me up, is in 1 post he implies that olinemen aren't that neccessary for success, so why waste a high pick on one, then he turns around and advocates getting into a bidding war for gross or carey....::screwy:

Maybe they are "impact O-linemen"? :noidea:

To me, Carey is a solid RT or guard that can play LT. Still better than Starks, but not somebody I think the Steelers needed to pay $7mil a season to.

The Definiti0n
03-13-2009, 04:42 AM
Some more vids of our future pro bowler

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f2adb1

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f3392c

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80ee9be7

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80eea164

steelwall
03-13-2009, 04:49 AM
I got no problem with Smith, Butler or Keenan Lewis from Oregon St. The fact that there is a deep class of CB's might mean that we dont need to get one in the 1st round.

As for a big ugly that is a "difference maker". Please tell me if Jake Long, Brandon Albert, Ryan Clady, Joe Thomas, Tony Ugoh or any O lineman has ever been considered a difference maker.

Bottom line is that experienced guys like Parcells know you build a team with a solid base of linemen. That is why he picked Jake Long OT, Philip Merling DT and Kendall Langford DE with his first 3 picks of last years draft. A solid Offensive or Defensive lineman makes much more sense than a CB in round 1, but we will see.

I have to agree with you in principle, but what was it 3,4 years ago? noone could run on us, or stop our run, but we consistantly got beat with long pass plays and a dismal return game.

MasterOfPuppets
03-13-2009, 05:10 AM
I have to agree with you in principle, but what was it 3,4 years ago? noone could run on us, or stop our run, but we consistantly got beat with long pass plays and a dismal return game.thats the direct result of bad picks like chad scoot,scott shields, hank poteat, and ricardo colclough.....:popcorn:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-13-2009, 10:50 AM
thats the direct result of bad picks like chad scoot,scott shields, hank poteat, and ricardo colclough.....:popcorn:

I also dont think we got much push from our down linemen or Clark Haggans. The only guy to rush the passer then was Porter.

I'd love to see a guy that is a 2-gap DE and is athletic enough to get after the passer. Canty might not have been perfect as that, but I think he would have been better than Nick Eason, Kirshke, etc.