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mesaSteeler
03-16-2009, 08:32 PM
Steelers host PSU's Shipley
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_616323.html

By Mike Prisuta, TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, March 16, 2009

About the writer

Mike Prisuta is a sports columnist for the Tribune-Review. He can be reached via e-mail or at 412-320-7923.
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The Steelers are hosting Penn State center A.Q. Shipley today on the South Side.

Shipley, 6-foot-1 and 304 pounds, won the Rimington Trophy in 2008, which is given annually to the nation's top center.

The Steelers also met with Shipley, a Moon Area High School graduate, at the scouting combine in February in Indianapolis.

St33lersguy
03-16-2009, 08:44 PM
Looks like the Steelers talked to a local boy. Like his toughness but Alex Mack is higher on my board

Give It To Abercrombie
03-16-2009, 09:17 PM
I'd be very happy with Shipley. I would certainly put Mack and Wood ahead of him (I wouldn't touch Unger with a 10' pole, see Senior Bowl), but I'd definitely take a shot on Shipley in the right spot.

calsteeler
03-16-2009, 10:16 PM
Just wondering, earlier, I posted a thread here with the topic title,,,new England to acquire Peppers, and before anyone could even read it, let alone respend, it was moved to the general NFL forum. And, I was already being called out as a dummy, and don't I know where to post the threads in the correct forum. Well maybe it's just me, maybe I'm stupid overs here but, doesn't a thread, with the topic title of how a draft eligable player is visiting the steelers belong in the steelers " warroom " forum ?




I mean hey, I'm just asking overs here.

Steely McSmash
03-16-2009, 10:41 PM
Should be in War room IMO.

I think Shipley may have been something of an overachiever at Penn State. The reviews I've read all state good technique and leverage. I wonder if his size may cause his ceiling to be a bit on the low side.

Center is probably the deepest position on the line. with Hartwig, Stapleton and Legusky in the mix. If we pick someone there it should be a standout guy (Mack or Wood) or a late rounder (5+).

calsteeler
03-16-2009, 11:08 PM
I read this same topic at another steeler website, and they said the same thing about Shipley's lack of heaight, and size as a concern. And I say, what lack of size ? I mean look back at Mike Webster, how tall was he ? And even IF you wanna say, well that was back in the 70's and early80's, when smaller Linemen could get away with that size. Well what about the All-Decade Center, Dermontti Dawson ? I personally met Dermontti, and he was barely 2 maybe 2 1/2 inches taller than me, and I'm 5ft, 10. Shipley measured out at 6ft, 1 1/8th without shoes. Which makes him a legit 6ft, 2 guy. To me, Centers who have a lower center of gravity, and have great strength and a push are dominating centers.


Look, I like Mack, but Mack is 6ft, 4 without shoes, but barely weighs maybe 5lbs more than Shipley. And Shipley lifted the most of any Center at Indy. As where Mack refused to even lift. Shipley has been the O-Line ancher of a Penn State team that has faced the best of the best on defense. Mack for the most part has not. And even though ONE poster here will retort and retort that at the Senior Bowl workouts, mack was the only one who held his own against Raji of Boston College, that is not to say Shipley didn't do well. Shipley made great reviews both at the Senior Bowl, and Indy. And last time I checked, the writers and coaches of America said HE was the nations best center. Regardless to what clueless idiots like Mel Kiper say.



Shipley to me will be a stud center. And further more, he can be had probably late in the 3rd or 4th round. Meanning we can address another need at 32, and not use it on Mack, and nobody can show concrete eveidence that mack's play the past two seasons is anymore dominate then Shipley's was...No One!!

SunshineMan21
03-16-2009, 11:10 PM
I really like Shipley--he's definitely not a first round guy, but if we don't end up snagging Mack then Shipley could be a good mid-round acquisition to replace Hartwig in a season or two.

I don't really see Stapleton as having the size to start at C--he's a competent interior line backup and a smart player, but hopefully he won't be pressed into a starting role next year.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-17-2009, 12:38 AM
If Shipley is around in the 4th round and we dont have a center, he would be OK.

Problem is that he doesnt project well to play guard, so he is gonna be a center only type guy, so boom or bust. He's built like a fire hydrant, but with the short arms, a defender can get hands on him and work him. Sadly I would rather have Mack, Wood or Caldwell before Shipley.

calsteeler
03-17-2009, 01:16 AM
Gonzo: I don't buy all this stuff about projecting. All this lack of height and arm reach is ridiculous, and can't be backed up by any facts whatsoever. I mean he can't play Guard ?...why. You don't think that if the5ft, 10 Terry Long was 26 right now that he couldn't still dominate at Guard like he did when he played for us, and made multiple Pro Bowls ? Hogwash I say. it's all about lower strength, and Balance. And Shipley has that all over Mack. In fact there have been many Centers the past 10 years who are just as short as Shipley, and with shorter arms who will be in Canton.


Just because Mel Kiper says it's so does not make it so. I saw Mack get eaten alive against the USC team, and saw Shipley constantly piledrive his man right up the field. So on the field, where it counts is where all the college league head coaches say Shipley is easily better than Mack.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-17-2009, 10:56 AM
Gonzo: I don't buy all this stuff about projecting. All this lack of height and arm reach is ridiculous, and can't be backed up by any facts whatsoever. I mean he can't play Guard ?...why. You don't think that if the5ft, 10 Terry Long was 26 right now that he couldn't still dominate at Guard like he did when he played for us, and made multiple Pro Bowls ? Hogwash I say. it's all about lower strength, and Balance. And Shipley has that all over Mack. In fact there have been many Centers the past 10 years who are just as short as Shipley, and with shorter arms who will be in Canton.


Just because Mel Kiper says it's so does not make it so. I saw Mack get eaten alive against the USC team, and saw Shipley constantly piledrive his man right up the field. So on the field, where it counts is where all the college league head coaches say Shipley is easily better than Mack.

You dont have to buy anything, but the fans that like to reference guys like Webster and Long, but forget this is 2009 and not 1979 are really trying to talk themselves into liking guys instead of being objective.

We all hack on Willie Colon because he is shorter and has shorter arms than preferred for a OT and look what happens to him in pass protection. If your opponent can get his arms on you and you cant lock out your arms to keep him off you, he can do a number of things...1. A push-pull move 2. A swim move 3. an arm over move, etc.

At the combine, Shipley showed great strength, footwork, quickness, balance and is apparantly a solid kid. I would not count him out, but I dont ignore his shortcomings just because he is a Moon grad. BTW, its not Kiper.......here is the NFL scouting report on him.

Lacks height, bulk and arm length. Projects to center only, probably in a zone-blocking system. Short arms prevent him from maintaining contact with tackles on the move, which lets his man shed or get past him. Initial punch is only adequate. Does not consistently sustain his blocks, especially against stronger tackles.http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/a.q.-shipley?id=71461#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis

calsteeler
03-17-2009, 12:09 PM
Gonzo, look I like Mack. he also is considered by alot of NCAA coaches as a great center, and has been nominated, and has won several awards. But just like how you point out what might be alot of weaknesses on Shipley, i can also point out several, if not more that will hurt mack. His extreme lack of strength, both lower and upper. yes he's a good technician, but at his height, he projects as a 270 Lb Center. Cause every ince a body frame has is equal to 8lbs, so if he were Shipley's height, he would be in the 270-275lb range. That too would get him killed and pushed back as a NFL Center.


If the steelers select him at 32,,fine. But i also feel just comfortable with selecting Shipley later on, drafting another O-Linemen for depth accross the Line, just in case Shipley can't fill in at another position if needed, and then use our pick at 32 to address another glaring need, like D-Line, or DB, or maybe even WR.



That to me just makes more sense.

Steely McSmash
03-17-2009, 01:01 PM
I....the All-Decade Center, Dermontti Dawson ? I personally met Dermontti, and he was barely 2 maybe 2 1/2 inches taller than me, ....

.
..... And last time I checked, the writers and coaches of America said HE was the nations best center. ....

Shipley to me will be a stud center. And further more, he can be had probably late in the 3rd or 4th round. Meanning we can address another need at 32, and not use it on Mack,....

Some notes:

--according to NFL.com Demonti Dawson was 6'-2 296 lb.

-- The Rimington was for the best college center. Not the one projected to be the best pro. There is a difference. This is one of the reason I said that Shipley may be over-performing at the college level. For his measurables, he does a really good job -- lower ceiling maybe.

-- I think first round talent is better spent on OT if there is a suitable guy available. I agree that Shipley would be a good value in middle rounds assuming that the coaching staff do not see starter caliber work in Legursky or Stapleton. Maybe they can convert Legursky to NT? He's strong and built like a fireplug as well.

lilyoder6
03-17-2009, 02:07 PM
We all hack on Willie Colon because he is shorter and has shorter arms than preferred for a OT and look what happens to him in pass protection. If your opponent can get his arms on you and you cant lock out your arms to keep him off you, he can do a number of things...1. A push-pull move 2. A swim move 3. an arm over move, etc.

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we are not talking about shipley playing tackle... we are talking about center

another.. i doubt that a nt will have the same kind of maneuverability as a de would..

another.. a nt would not have the same kind of space to move as a de would..

Fire Haley
03-17-2009, 02:59 PM
Does he have any arms?

http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/images/200903/shipley1_330.jpg

Steeldude
03-17-2009, 03:12 PM
hmmm....

http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/images/200903/shipley1_330.jpg


http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/uglysloth.jpg

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-17-2009, 07:55 PM
i can also point out several, if not more that will hurt mack. His extreme lack of strength, both lower and upper. yes he's a good technician, but at his height, he projects as a 270 Lb Center. .

I never knew that Alex Mack lacked strength and power:noidea: You must be in the Cal weight room all the time to know that. Here is what an AFC scout said.:

Unger’s a better athlete, a guy who’s going to be able to pull and play in space, but to me Mack’s the superior player,” an AFC scout says. “He does everything really well, and he’s very, very strong for a center. Not a lot of centers can get the kind of movement on the line of scrimmage that he does, and he’s tough and plays extremely hard and is spotless off the field, the kind of guy you want in your program.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-trippintuesday031709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I just think that if Shipley went to highschool in Hawaii and played at Oregon St. most on this board would say "no thanks, he's a zone block guy that couldnt handle Shaun Rogers or Haloti Ngata"

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-17-2009, 08:05 PM
we are not talking about shipley playing tackle... we are talking about center

another.. i doubt that a nt will have the same kind of maneuverability as a de would..

another.. a nt would not have the same kind of space to move as a de would..

Once again, thank you for taking a point and extracting a few words to take it off topic. I was making the comparison of how short arms can hamper an offensive lineman's play. I never said anything about Shipley playing tackle.....did I??

As for a DT or NT having space and maneuverability that a DE would, you dont need space as a NT. Have you ever watched Casey Hampton, Shaun Rogers, Jamaal Williams line up shaded to one side of the center and then quickly slap and swim around the center??? Happens all the time. A guy with longer arms will be able to extend and push the defender down the line, while he gets his feet around and in position........a guy with shorter arms loses position and then loses the block by failing to keep contact and leverage.

Objectively, I think Mack, Wood, Unger and Caldwell are better centers than Shipley. I just dont think Unger is a good fit at all to play center for the Steelers and Shipley is more of a risk that I would only want to use with a 4th round selection or later.