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St33lersguy
03-18-2009, 05:54 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f53f26&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

This is such a surprising (& bad) mock, this is a must read. I don't want to spoil anything

Steelman16
03-18-2009, 07:28 PM
I still don't understand why everyone thinks we should pick Jarron Gilbert at #32.

But as to the rest of the mock, his previous one was much better IMO.

St33lersguy
03-18-2009, 08:21 PM
If the 1st 31 picks pan out like that, the Steelers definitely get Vontae Davis the CB from Illinois. He is a talented top 20 corner that would fill the void left by B-Mac & lets face it the Rooneys do not pass up guys like Davis @ the 32nd pick. Pat Kirwan should really consider stopping the mock drafts. Too many mistakes, besides Gilbert can still be available at pick #64

The Definiti0n
03-18-2009, 08:31 PM
I dont know who is worse at this, Kirwan or calsteeler. On second thought Kirwan>>>>calsteeler

St33lersguy
03-19-2009, 08:41 AM
Yeah but, will the Steelers rreally pick Gilbert over a top 20 CB prospect like Vontae Davis if he's still available

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-19-2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but, will the Steelers rreally pick Gilbert over a top 20 CB prospect like Vontae Davis if he's still available

I say yes they will !!! Why you may ask??.........................

1.The Steelers feel confident with a DB corps of Taylor, Gay, Townsend, Bryant, Lewis. Plus, the CB class in this years draft is very deep.

2.The Steelers starting D line are all 30 years of age or older, with only Eason, Kirshke, Hoke as reserves. The 2 gap DE class in this years draft is pretty thin with only Jackson, Gilbert, Moala, Magee (maybe Hood) really being considered solid talents to fit that scheme.

The probablility is that if they draft D line in round 1, they can still find a decent CB in the 2nd or 3rd. But, if they draft a CB in round 1, the chances are that all 5 guys I mentioned above are gone by pick #64. As much as we all think we need O line.......I believe the Steelers will draft a D lineman at #32.

MasterOfPuppets
03-19-2009, 11:32 AM
I say yes they will !!! Why you may ask??.........................

1.The Steelers feel confident with a DB corps of Taylor, Gay, Townsend, Bryant, Lewis. Plus, the CB class in this years draft is very deep.

2.The Steelers starting D line are all 30 years of age or older, with only Eason, Kirshke, Hoke as reserves. The 2 gap DE class in this years draft is pretty thin with only Jackson, Gilbert, Moala, Magee (maybe Hood) really being considered solid talents to fit that scheme.

The probablility is that if they draft D line in round 1, they can still find a decent CB in the 2nd or 3rd. But, if they draft a CB in round 1, the chances are that all 5 guys I mentioned above are gone by pick #64. As much as we all think we need O line.......I believe the Steelers will draft a D lineman at #32. you forgot to mention that keisel is entering a contract year, and with a few more teams looking to adopt the 3-4, he could become a hot commodity as a FA., even at his age.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-19-2009, 11:41 AM
you forgot to mention that keisel is entering a contract year, and with a few more teams looking to adopt the 3-4, he could become a hot commodity as a FA., even at his age.

Yeah. I know a lot of fans think Keisel has more left in the tank than Smith, but Smith is under contract for another 2 seasons. I think you are right that we cant afford to pay Keisel next season when Harrison, Miller, Holmes, Hampton, Woodley are all gonna be looking for contracts.

I honestly hope we are able to draft William Beatty at #32 and then trade up in the 2nd to get either Fili Moala or Jarron Gilbert. That way we can clear off the cap numbers of Starks and Keisel in 2010 and devote some $$ to those other guys.

tony hipchest
03-19-2009, 12:28 PM
If the 1st 31 picks pan out like that, the Steelers definitely get Vontae Davis the CB from Illinois. He is a talented top 20 corner that would fill the void left by B-Mac & lets face it the Rooneys do not pass up guys like Davis @ the 32nd pick. Pat Kirwan should really consider stopping the mock drafts. Too many mistakes, besides Gilbert can still be available at pick #64

are you serious? maybe you should consider not trying to analyze mock drafts.

from mock 4.0
32. Steelers Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State

Players under consideration include William Beatty and Alex Mack. The Steelers have been very quiet in free agency and lost Bryant McFadden, which may drive them to one of the remaining corners in the draft. Their offensive line situation is also a question mark, but Gilbert has the athletic ability and size for what they like to do on defense. In typical Steelers fashion, whomever they take will be trained for a year before getting a chance to start.


from mock 3.0
32. Steelers Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State
By the time we get to the draft, Gilbert might be projected higher than this spot. He's a steal for the Steelers here and an excellent candidate as a 5-technique. The Steelers also could look at a corner such as Vontae Davis.



you basically stole what kirwan has been saying and put in print over a week ago, and then said he doesnt know what the hell he is talking about.

hilarious.

MasterOfPuppets
03-19-2009, 12:41 PM
are you serious? maybe you should consider not trying to analyze mock drafts.

from mock 4.0


from mock 3.0


you basically stole what kirwan has been saying and put in print over a week ago, and then said he doesnt know what the hell he is talking about.

hilarious.:busted::busted::busted:......:doh: ........:busted::busted::busted: .......:toofunny:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-19-2009, 01:46 PM
you basically stole what kirwan has been saying and put in print over a week ago, and then said he doesnt know what the hell he is talking about.

hilarious.

Yeah, but what does Kirwin really know?? Every year he writes an article that statistically proves about 3 percent of rookies start in the NFL.............but every alleged knowledgeable fan here thinks the guys we draft in rounds 1 and 2 are gonna improve our team immediately. :rofl:

Then the calls of Timmons is a bust, Mendenhall is a bust, Sweed is a bust come out in year one ..............only to fade to a whimper in the 2nd season. :chuckle: Pat knows nothing!!

tony hipchest
03-19-2009, 03:34 PM
its not like he has ever put together an actual draft board or worked in an actual war room, or negotated and drawn up an actual contract for an actual draft pick.

:rolleyes:

i enjoy his mocks. id say other than the professional mock drafters such as kiper or mayock, he puts about as much time and research into it as anybody.

theyre fun too. he even includes trades (last year predicting patriots trading their #1 for a lb.- they traded down instead of up and a team trading up for d. harvey- it was the jags and not the lions).

i notice this year he is being scoffed at on the boards for suggesting seattle and jags will take the 1st two quarterbacks. however, last year i think he was the only one who had brian brohm going to the packers (even bumping him out of the 1st round for his final mock).

pat now has eugene monroe going #1. this is the same kid who bumped branden albert to the inside of the line in college. the same albert who pat chatred his meteoric clim up the draftboards on a weekly basis (much like he is now with gilbert).

anyways kirwan just spoke with 2 of the people who attended monroes pro day (probably scouts or position coach) and one of them told pat that they read his mock draft yesterday and everything he said about him was spot on correct.

pat never reveals his sources cause he knows lots of coaches, scouts and even gm's listen to his show and it could give someone a leg up on what their competition is thinking or doing.

but yeah, he always makes mistakes and should just give it up. :chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
03-19-2009, 04:00 PM
i myself think that monroe is going to be the #1 pick. just because jason smith put up better numbers at the combine, doesn't mean he's got more potential. nobody was even talking about smith back in november.

St33lersguy
03-19-2009, 04:54 PM
I say yes they will !!! Why you may ask??.........................

1.The Steelers feel confident with a DB corps of Taylor, Gay, Townsend, Bryant, Lewis. Plus, the CB class in this years draft is very deep.

Yeah but Townsend is 33 years old & nearing the end of his career & not only is Fernando Bryant in his 30s he also in essence has not had an impact in the NFL, plus Lewis might not even make it on the 53 man roster. Vontae Davis is a very talented DB, there is a consesus among other experts that he is the 2nd best CB in the draft & will be long gone by the time the Steelers pick in the 1st round. He is a steal at pick #32. Plus Gilbert played against weak competition:chuckle:

Texasteel
03-19-2009, 04:54 PM
i myself think that monroe is going to be the #1 pick. just because jason smith put up better numbers at the combine, doesn't mean he's got more potential. nobody was even talking about smith back in november.

You may be right MOP, but remember, we are talking about the Lions.
When is the last time they took a WR in the 1st round, they may be due.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-19-2009, 05:26 PM
Yeah but Townsend is 33 years old & nearing the end of his career & not only is Fernando Bryant in his 30s he also in essence has not had an impact in the NFL, plus Lewis might not even make it on the 53 man roster. Vontae Davis is a very talented DB, there is a consesus among other experts that he is the 2nd best CB in the draft & will be long gone by the time the Steelers pick in the 1st round. He is a steal at pick #32. Plus Gilbert played against weak competition:chuckle:

The guys probably left at #32 will be Alphonso Smith or Darius Butler. A solid D-line and pass rush means your CB's dont have to cover long. Quality CB's can be found in rounds other than the 1st. Example:

Ivan "Ike" Taylor - 4th round
DeShea Townsend- 4th round
William Gay- 5th round
Bryant McFadden-2nd round

Our recent D linemen drafts like Ryan McBean (4th ) Orien Harris (4th), Shaun Nua (7th), Eric Taylor (7th), Nathanial Adibi (5th) have not really provided us with any depth and should get some attention.

SunshineMan21
03-19-2009, 08:13 PM
This is an extremely poor mock.

Everette Brown at #3 while Aaron Curry and Brian Orakpo are still on the board?

Beanie Wells to the Texans with plenty of defensive guys on the board?

Kenny Britt to the Dolphins with all kinds of secondary help on the board?

Percy Harvin to the Ravens over Heyward-Bey?

Jarron Gilbert to us with Beatty and Mack available?

This guy might know his prospects, but in terms of judging what teams value he seems clueless. I mean, do you really think Aaron Curry will drop to number 9?

tony hipchest
03-19-2009, 08:34 PM
This is an extremely poor mock.


This guy might know his prospects, but in terms of judging what teams value he seems clueless. I mean, do you really think Aaron Curry will drop to number 9?it depends on what he has between his ears and how well he does in interviews.

last year their were many who thought vernon gholston wouldnt fall past #4 and that jarrod mayo was a major reach in the top 10.

the draft is an inexact science. so tell us... what do teams value?

MasterOfPuppets
03-19-2009, 08:43 PM
kirwan's 2008 mock......he didn't do so well.....:doh:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d807619d5&template=with-video&confirm=true

MasterOfPuppets
03-19-2009, 08:51 PM
it depends on what he has between his ears and how well he does in interviews.

last year their were many who thought vernon gholston wouldnt fall past #4 and that jarrod mayo was a major reach in the top 10.

the draft is an inexact science. so tell us... what do teams value?last year kirwan had mayo and rivers going 29 and 31st...they went 9 and 10. 8 of his 1st rd picks, didn't go in the 1st rd.

tony hipchest
03-19-2009, 09:11 PM
last year kirwan had mayo and rivers going 29 and 31st...they went 9 and 10. 8 of his 1st rd picks, didn't go in the 1st rd.

There will be an updated first-round mock draft every week leading up to the April 26-27 selection process. There could be some radical changes as I speak with people around the league and factor in the late pro days.

Players currently outside of the first round who might break in next week include Devin Thomas, Michigan wide receiver Mario Manningham, Felix Jones, Jonathan Stewart, Early Doucet, Sam Baker.


youre looking at the wrong one. he does a fluid mock every week or so starting after the combine (usually he does about 5) but it looks like this year there may be 8 or 9. :jammin:

anyways check out last years final mock from the thursday before the draft which is much more telling how it actually played out (had dallas taking mendenhall at #22).

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d807f798d&template=with-video&confirm=true

TasmanianTroy271
03-19-2009, 11:06 PM
I may be beating a dead horse here, but on the topic of Vontae Davis being on the board when we draft, the Steelers will have to look at him. Just like last year, if a top 20 pick falls to us, we have to look. I think that Coach Tomlin is waiting for a DB to fall to him that he can turn into an All-Pro, but Davis has character issues. If we don't take him, it'll be because we took him off our draft board, not because we don't need a corner.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-20-2009, 01:19 AM
I hope Kirwins mock falls this way. I love the fact that Beatty, Mack and Gilbert are on the board when we pick.

I would be happy with any one of those 3 players!!!

MasterOfPuppets
03-20-2009, 03:59 AM
I may be beating a dead horse here, but on the topic of Vontae Davis being on the board when we draft, the Steelers will have to look at him. Just like last year, if a top 20 pick falls to us, we have to look. I think that Coach Tomlin is waiting for a DB to fall to him that he can turn into an All-Pro, but Davis has character issues. If we don't take him, it'll be because we took him off our draft board, not because we don't need a corner. i seriously doubt its worth pondering if davis falls to 32....its not gonna happen ..there's no shortage of teams needing cb's....character issues or not he's still a top cb on the board , and i'm sure several teams would overlook it.

St33lersguy
03-21-2009, 10:58 AM
I just hope that the 1st 31 picks pan out that way just for the reality that the Steelers actually have a chance to draft Davis. Unfortunately barring something wierd happening Davis is a top 20 pick. If Pat Kirwan really knew as much about the Steeler FO as much as us fans he would realize that the Steelers don't pass up steals. Just look @ last year for proof

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-21-2009, 11:14 AM
I just hope that the 1st 31 picks pan out that way just for the reality that the Steelers actually have a chance to draft Davis. Unfortunately barring something wierd happening Davis is a top 20 pick. If Pat Kirwan really knew as much about the Steeler FO as much as us fans he would realize that the Steelers don't pass up steals. Just look @ last year for proof

So, if I understand you correctly....you are criticizing Pat Kirwin for not knowing what the Steelers FO is thinking, yet saying that Steeler fans DO know what the FO is thinking...................OK. :rolleyes:

The Definiti0n
03-21-2009, 11:42 AM
what do u guys think about Evander Hood? He could be there at 32

triphahn
03-21-2009, 08:27 PM
In this situation you have to take Vontae Davis.

tony hipchest
03-23-2009, 04:26 PM
If Pat Kirwan really knew as much about the Steeler FO as much as us fans he would realize that the Steelers don't pass up steals. Just look @ last year for proof
again, you gotta be kidding.

im listening to kirwan right now broadcasting from the owners meeting is cali. in his first hour on the air he has already interviewed the packers gm, r. mckay, along with a. reid, and w. philips. r. graves is coming up. im sure he'll have art, kevin, and tomlin on, too.

tomlin was a weekly guest on his show in his rookie year. pat spends every football sunday watching and discussing the game with bill cowher. he has interviewed colbert plenty of times and every year at steelers training camp. he knows all too well the steelers will rarely pass on the bpa (he was one of the few i saw having the steelers not passing on limas sweed last year).

i would say he understands the steelers fo better than any talking head out there (with exception of maybe bouchette or wexell) and 10X more any random internet fan.

anyways, this is just one analyst's opinion of davis vs. gilbert. all i can say to justify the thinking behind the pick is he sees the potential for gilbert to replace and potentially be as good as aaron smith who is at the top of his position in the league. (3-4 de). with davis and 64 starting cb's in the league plus all the nickel players maybe he feels he will only be top 20 or mid pack.

he's already conceded that vonte is probably the 2nd best this year in a deep crop where there arent 2 consencus top 10 cb's like when d. robinson and d. hall were drafted. we'll see what happens.

St33lersguy
03-23-2009, 04:47 PM
again, you gotta be kidding.

im listening to kirwan right now broadcasting from the owners meeting is cali. in his first hour on the air he has already interviewed the packers gm, r. mckay, along with a. reid, and w. philips. r. graves is coming up. im sure he'll have art, kevin, and tomlin on, too.

tomlin was a weekly guest on his show in his rookie year. pat spends every football sunday watching and discussing the game with bill cowher. he has interviewed colbert plenty of times and every year at steelers training camp. he knows all too well the steelers will rarely pass on the bpa (he was one of the few i saw having the steelers not passing on limas sweed last year).

i would say he understands the steelers fo better than any talking head out there (with exception of maybe bouchette or wexell) and 10X more any random internet fan.

anyways, this is just one analyst's opinion of davis vs. gilbert. all i can say to justify the thinking behind the pick is he sees the potential for gilbert to replace and potentially be as good as aaron smith who is at the top of his position in the league. (3-4 de). with davis and 64 starting cb's in the league plus all the nickel players maybe he feels he will only be top 20 or mid pack.

he's already conceded that vonte is probably the 2nd best this year in a deep crop where there arent 2 consencus top 10 cb's like when d. robinson and d. hall were drafted. we'll see what happens.

Oh sure that clearly reflects in that mock draft with him projecting the Steelers will pass up a top 20 player for a 2nd rounder in Jarron Gilbert. Also if he really thought Davis was the 2nd best corner then why does he predict he'll get drafted 10 picks behind another 2nd round player in Sean Smith? Of course did you even read the mock draft?
P.S.:Did you read where he says that Everette Brown goes to Chiefs &Y Curry goes to the Pack at #9 or the Texans getting a RB with pressing needs in the secondary & OLB, plus shouldn't the Seawhiners be thinking Raji if J.Smith & Monroe are off the board, the QB can wait for them.

tony hipchest
03-24-2009, 11:24 AM
Oh sure that clearly reflects in that mock draft with him projecting the Steelers will pass up a top 20 player for a 2nd rounder in Jarron Gilbert. Also if he really thought Davis was the 2nd best corner then why does he predict he'll get drafted 10 picks behind another 2nd round player in Sean Smith? Of course did you even read the mock draft?
P.S.:Did you read where he says that Everette Brown goes to Chiefs &Y Curry goes to the Pack at #9 or the Texans getting a RB with pressing needs in the secondary & OLB, plus shouldn't the Seawhiners be thinking Raji if J.Smith & Monroe are off the board, the QB can wait for them.

i dont know how much research you do... maybe read a few mags, and study kipers and mayocks mock :noidea: but i still gotta take kirwans analysis over yours-

1. Ebb and flow of draft picks
The draft is still more than a month away -- and many things can change between now and then -- but the more I talk with the coaches and scouts who are on the road visiting pro days and watching hours of game tape, the more of a sense I get about the shape of the first round.

There's no question that offensive line coaches feel very comfortable with Eugene Monroe and Jason Smith at the top of the draft. Both prospects have created a sense of comfort for the coaches, convincing them that they have the talent, temperament and character to play early and play well. You would be surprised how many coaches aren’t that interested in high first-round picks. These guys have to play early, and too many of them just aren’t ready. Monroe and Smith have overcome that issue, but Andre Smith, Michael Oher and Eben Britton still have questions.

Another trend is that there appears to be positive momentum among the group of pass rushers in the first round. In the last month, I keep hearing how much interest NFL people have with Everette Brown, Brian Orakpo, Aaron Maybin and even Michael Johnson. I think it’s fair to say that all four have moved up a few spots.

If those players are moving up, who is moving down? Outside of Malcolm Jenkins, it appears the cornerbacks group isn't holding in the top half of the draft. Vontae Davis, Alphonso Smith and D.J. Moore seem to falling to the bottom of the first round or into the second round. That could be good news for teams like the Tennessee Titans, Pittsburgh Steelers and a few others who pick late in the first round.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f5dc39&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

remember, its the nfl peoples (executives, scouts, coaches) opinions that ultimately matter, not the mel kiper type talent evaluators.

Yeah, but what does Kirwin really know?? Every year he writes an article that statistically proves about 3 percent of rookies start in the NFL.............but every alleged knowledgeable fan here thinks the guys we draft in rounds 1 and 2 are gonna improve our team immediately. :rofl:

Then the calls of Timmons is a bust, Mendenhall is a bust, Sweed is a bust come out in year one ..............only to fade to a whimper in the 2nd season. :chuckle: Pat knows nothing!!

and right on cue, from yesterdays article linked above-

4. How teams did with rookies last year
Fans are starting to get excited about who their favorite team will select in the draft -- and with good reason. The draft can have an immediate impact on a team's roster. Last year, the Kansas City Chiefs were in a full-blown youth movement and got a total of 70 starts from their rookies. That's money in the bank for new GM Scott Pioli. The Denver Broncos, under Mike Shanahan, were second in the league with 44 rookie starts, which is terrific for their new regime.

The 2009 rookie class, much like last year's class, is not going to produce a lot of starts next season. Now, it's OK if your team didn't have a lot of rookie starts and won games -- like the Pittsburgh Steelers, who had one rookie start all season (running back Rashard Mendenhall). But if your team didn't play its rookies and lost a lot of games, that's a bad sign.

Here's a list of rookie starts for each team. For the Bears, Eagles and Jaguars, one player was responsible for all of the rookie starts (Matt Forte, DeSean Jackson and Derrick Harvey, respectively).

2008 rookie starts by team
NFC team Rookie starts AFC team Rookie starts
Arizona Cardinals 37 Baltimore Ravens 20
Atlanta Falcons 37 Buffalo Bills 17
Carolina Panthers 29 Cincinnati Bengals 24
Chicago Bears 16 Cleveland Browns 3
Dallas Cowboys 15 Denver Broncos 44
Detroit Lions 37 Houston Texans 36
Green Bay Packers 8 Indianapolis Colts 24
Minnesota Vikings 7 Jacksonville Jaguars 9
New Orleans Saints 31 Kansas City Chiefs 70
N.Y. Giants 7 Miami Dolphins 32
Philadelphia Eagles 15 New England Patriots 21
St. Louis Rams 31 N.Y. Jets 16
San Francisco 49ers 7 Oakland Raiders 11
Seattle Seahawks 24 Pittsburgh Steelers 1
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 7 San Diego Chargers 6
Washington Redskins 14 Tennessee Titans 20
i wonder if its just coincidence that the team that had to rely on rookies the least was the team that won the superbowl (browns only had 3 starts). :noidea:

i'll take 0 starts from our 09 rookie class if its an indicator of postseason success.

SunshineMan21
03-24-2009, 11:57 PM
I'm not saying Kirwan isn't an intelligent commentator, but some of these picks are just terrible . . .

You really think if Vontae Davis, Alex Mack, and William Beatty are all on the board at #32 (which won't happen anyway) we won't take any of them?

You really think Curry won't be the first LB chosen?

I get that Kirwan has high-level access, but he's certainly been wrong in the past, and I'm going to predict that he'll be wrong in 2009--especially about Aaron Curry.

steelreserve
03-25-2009, 01:25 AM
Can someone please tell me the last time the Steelers took a defensive lineman with a top pick? Hampton in 2001, and how long was it before that?

Fact is, you can get serviceable defensive linemen relatively cheaply in free agency compared to other positions, and you occasionally get a late-round steal in the draft. That seems to be our M.O. unless we luck out. My guess is the first two rounds are some combination of OL/DB/LB (yes, LB) and maybe a DL prospect or two in rounds 3-6.

Steely McSmash
03-27-2009, 11:24 PM
... he has interviewed colbert plenty of times and every year at steelers training camp...

Maybe he knows that Colbert is a sucker for jumping out of the pool hype:drinkup: