PDA

View Full Version : Steelers awarded fifth-round compensatory pick


Hypocycloid
03-23-2009, 08:20 PM
Monday, March 23, 2009
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

DANA POINT, Calif. -- The Steelers received and extra draft pick today, but not the one they had hoped to get.

The NFL issued a fifth-round pick to the Steelers as one of 32 compensatory choices the league awarded to 16 teams today.

Privately, the Steelers were expected a third-round pick. The extra pick for the Steelers will be the 33rd in the fifth round or no. 169 overall.

The NFL uses a complicated system to determine compensatory picks. The Steelers were awarded their extra choice based on losing two unrestricted free agents last year, Alan Faneca and Clark Haggans, versus signing one, Mewelde Moore.

The Steelers now have nine picks in next month's draft, one in each of the seven rounds, and additional picks in the fifth and seventh rounds.

revefsreleets
03-23-2009, 08:27 PM
Nothing wrong with a 5th and 7th. But a third would have definitely been better and more apropos, especially considering that Faneca made the Pro Bowl.

But why would the league suddenly start doing right by the Steelers?

Dynasty
03-23-2009, 08:32 PM
I just read on the ESPN AFC north blog that we only got a 5th round pick... we were expected to get a third rounder, so this comes as a very unpleasant surprise.

Godfather
03-23-2009, 08:35 PM
I bet the Patriots* got a good deal.

They need to publish the method they use to calculate those picks. Otherwise there's going to be suspicions of shady dealing.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-23-2009, 08:39 PM
Yeah, I dont understand the fans. Cry all year the O line sucks and when they get extended they cheer............"we kept the SB championship team together!!"

Now we only get a 5th round compensatory pick and they are complaining we got shafted. :noidea: Suck it up and play with the team we got if you think that is all we need. A 5th round selection seems about right if its based on UFA's like the article say.

Hypocycloid
03-23-2009, 08:42 PM
Not what I was expecting or hoping for. Some the people on the internet that have done work breaking down the NFL secret formula had us receiving a 3rd round pick.

I was hoping to get a thread started debating the merits of using the our 3rd round pick to move up if we had a 3rd compensatory pick. I was thinking that it would make a great discussion because of our need vs the percentage of draft busts....ie, which would give us the best value a higher first and one low third or the last first and two low thirds. That is kind of a moot point now although I guess that can still be done with the extra fifth. If we used our 5th round pick as trade it would only allow us to move up approximately 2 spots in the first round. 3 or 4 in the 2nd, 6 or 7 spots in the 3rd, and 16 to 17 spots in the 4th. To me the only place the 5th rounder would make sense would be in the 4th but where is the fun in that? It is too hard to speculate who will get taken where in the fourth. That took some of the fun out of the draft for me. I think it might be best to just use the two 5th rounders and hope one of them manages to stick around. The chances of one of them sticking around is what, 40 percent?

Dylan
03-23-2009, 08:44 PM
this is pretty disappointing, i was at least expecting a 4th rounder.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-23-2009, 08:53 PM
I think we all talked ourselves into thinking a 3rd was expected. No big deal. I think we can get an ILB and a decent lineman in the 5th. It might be Gerald Cadogin territory!!

Dylan
03-23-2009, 08:56 PM
I think we all talked ourselves into thinking a 3rd was expected. No big deal. I think we can get an ILB and a decent lineman in the 5th. It might be Gerald Cadogin territory!!

i would love to see us get gerald cadogen in the 5th round, but isnt he projected higher than that?

Texasteel
03-23-2009, 08:58 PM
I've been talking a 3rd, expecting a 4th, so a 5th doesn't really surprise me that much. We should get a good player out of it.

Could be a good place for a FS, David Butler, Darcel McBath, Courtney Green, or a WR, Deon Butler, Mike Wallace, Johnny Knox, and a couple others.

Hypocycloid
03-23-2009, 08:59 PM
Was that you Gonzo that was high on the Tank, what was his name
Sullivan?

Texasteel
03-23-2009, 09:03 PM
i would love to see us get gerald cadogen in the 5th round, but isnt he projected higher than that?

From what I have read, Cadogen should go in that 5th round area.
He would be a heck of a 5th round pick

Steely McSmash
03-23-2009, 09:06 PM
The formula supposedly involves post season honors....

Perhaps the Lombardi Trophy counts!:tt02:

Looks like we just missed the cutoff for the 4th rounders.

Round (overall place in round--overall place in draft) team.

3 (33-97) New England

3 (34-98) Cincinnati

3 (35-99) Chicago

3 (36-100) NY Giants

4 (33-133) San Diego

4 (34-134) San Diego

4 (35-135) Tennessee

4 (36-136) Indianapolis

5 (33-169) Pittsburgh

5 (34-170) New England

5 (35-171) San Francisco

5 (36-172) Dallas

5 (37-173) Tennessee

6 (33-206) Tennessee

6 (34-207) New England

6 (35-2080 Dallas

6 (36-209) Cincinnati

7 (33-242) Tennessee

7 (34-243) Washington

7 (35-244) San Francisco

7 (36-245) Seattle

7 (37-246) Chicago

7 (38-247) Seattle

7 (39-248) Seattle

7 (40-249) Cincinnati

7 (41-250) Jacksonville

7 (42-251) Chicago

7 (43-252) Cincinnati

7 (44-253) Jacksonville

7 (45-254) Arizona

7 (46-255) Detroit

7 (47-256) Kansas City

Steely McSmash
03-23-2009, 09:11 PM
They need to publish the method they use to calculate those picks. .

Agreed. Even better let you know during free agency so you can know the consequences.

dunkuntou
03-23-2009, 09:11 PM
The Colts got a 4th round pick when all they lost was Jake Scott. We lose a Hall of Famer and we get a 5th round pick. I know we signed Mewelde Moore but we also lost Clark Haggans.

I really think the NFL needs to evaluate this system.

Hypocycloid
03-23-2009, 09:15 PM
This guy has been pretty good the last couple of years at predicting the compensatory picks...he might have to go and revise his formula, but based on his record and research I would have thought at least a fourth.
Here is the link: http://forums.kffl.com/showthread.php?t=247418

But here is some of his thoughts on the formula and predictions:

For the eighth consecutive year and ninth overall, I’ve attempted to project all of the compensatory draft picks that the NFL will award. In my past seven projections, I’ve averaged 23.9 out of 32 exactly correct (going to the correct team in the correct round) and have been off by only one round on an average of 4.1 more. Last year, I got 25 correct and was off by one round on four more. With this year’s projections, I’m hoping to get a combined score of at least 30, although it’s possible that more than the usual number of them could be off by one round because so many projected compensatory picks fell near the cutoff points between rounds.

As the NFL explains, compensatory picks are awarded to teams that lose more or better compensatory free agents than they acquire. The number of picks a team can receive equals the net loss of compensatory free agents, up to a maximum of four. Compensatory free agents are determined by a secret formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. Not every free agent lost or signed is covered by the formula.

Although the formula has never been revealed, by studying the compensatory picks that have been awarded since they began in 1994, I’ve determined that the primary factor in the value of the picks awarded is the average annual value of the contract the player signed with his new team, with an adjustment for playing time and a smaller adjustment for postseason honors. It should be noted that the contract values used in the equation seemingly do not include things such as workout bonuses, incentives and conditional bonuses. (Also, keep in mind that the contract figures reported in the media often are incorrect.) And the playing time used in the equation seemingly is the percentage of offensive or defensive snaps played.

A simple method of determining for which qualifying free agents a team will be compensated is this – for every player acquired, cancel out a lost player of similar value. For example, consider a team that loses one qualifying player whose value would bring a third-round comp pick and another qualifying player whose value would bring a sixth-round comp pick but signs a qualifying player whose value would be in the range of a third-round pick. That team would receive a sixth-round comp pick because the signed player would cancel out the loss of the higher-valued player. If the signed player’s value was equal to a fourth-round pick or lower, however, the team would receive a third-round comp pick, because the signed player would cancel out the loss of the lower-valued player.

It is possible for a team to get a compensatory pick even if it doesn’t suffer a net loss of qualifying free agents. That type of comp pick comes at the end of the seventh round, after the normal comp picks and before the non-compensatory picks that are added if fewer than 32 comp picks are awarded. There have been 13 of these “net value” type of comp picks awarded, and in each case, the combined value of the free agents lost was significantly higher than the combined value of the free agents added. In all 13 cases, those teams lost the same number of qualifying free agents as they signed. No team has been awarded a comp pick after signing more qualifying free agents than it lost, no matter how significant the difference in combined value. This year, I’m projecting that Detroit and Arizona will receive a net-value comp picks. Detroit lost three qualifying players (Damien Woody, Boss Bailey and T.J. Duckett) and signed three qualifying players (Brian Kelly, Michael Gaines and Chuck Darby). Arizona lost three (Calvin Pace, Bryant Johnson and Keydrick Vincent) and signed three (Travis LaBoy, Clark Haggans and Bryan Robinson). The combined values of the players Detroit and Arizona lost each exceeded 50 percent more than the combined values of the players they signed. That would be the smallest difference in value of any net-value comp in the past six years, but I’m projecting that it will be enough for both teams.

For the second consecutive year, I’ve used a mathematical formula to weight the three factors that determine a player’s value in the comp equation (his contract, his playing time and his postseason awards). Using this formula, I’ve been able to reconstruct almost precisely the order of the comp picks that were awarded in 2006, 2007 and 2008. In two of those years, the only difference between the reconstructed order and the actual order was that a very small difference in values had the order of two consecutive picks switched. I don’t know if I have the factors weighted correctly, but given that my projected order last year (not the reconstructed order after the actual comps were awarded) matched the exact order of the comp picks in many cases – including one instance of 11 straight, out of the projected picks I had correct – I think I’m probably pretty close.

As always, please note that my comp pick formula is merely an attempt to project the results of the actual (secret) formula. I don’t pretend to know the actual formula. But I think previous results indicate that the formula I use is a pretty good simulation.

In order to qualify for the comp equation, a player must have been a true Unrestricted Free Agent whose contract had expired or was voided after the previous season (i.e., he cannot have been released by his old team); he must sign during the UFA signing period (which ended July 22 last year); if he signs after June 1, he must have been tendered a June 1 qualifying offer by his old team; his compensatory value must be above a specific minimum amount; and he cannot have been permanently released by his new team before a certain point in the season (which seems to be after Week 10) or, possibly, before getting a certain amount of playing time, unless he was claimed off waivers by another team.

The most difficult part about projecting the comp picks is determining all of the cutoff points – the minimum value needed to qualify and the value ranges for the comp picks in each round of the draft. The comp picks awarded in previous years suggest that the cutoff points increase each year by a small percentage – approximately the same percentage by which the leaguewide salary cap increases. From 2007 to 2008, the cap went up 6.96 percent, so I used a 7 percent increase when estimating the cutoff points for this year’s comp picks.

Last year, the lowest-paid player who is known to have qualified for the NFL’s comp equation was Michael Myers, who signed for $825,000 per season and saw significant playing time. The highest-paid player who is known to have not qualified was Mike Doss, who signed for $900,000 per season by saw very little playing time except on special teams. The non-qualifying player with the highest value using the compensatory formula was Chris Liwienski, who signed for $740,000 per season and played almost 90 percent of his team’s offensive snaps. This year, only one player was “on the bubble” for qualifying – Tony Richardson, who left the Vikings and signed with the Jets for $860,000 per season. However, regardless of whether Richardson qualifies, the Vikings and the Jets each signed more qualifying players than they lost, which means Richardson doesn’t affect the comp picks at all.

I’m fairly confident that the players I consider a little “above the bubble” this year (Terry Cousin, Keydrick Vincent and Danny Clark) will qualify for the equation, and that the players I consider slightly “below the bubble” (Alex Stepanovich and Aaron Glenn), will not qualify. The lowest-valued player “above the bubble,” Danny Clark, has a value in the formula that is more than 20 percent higher than that of last year’s lowest-valued qualifying player. And the highest-valued player “below the bubble,” Alex Stepanovich, has a value that is less than that of the lowest-valued qualifying player last year (Michael Myers) and less than 1 percent more than the highest-valued non-qualifying player last year (Chris Liwienski). If I’m wrong about any of those players, it will represent by far the largest or smallest increase in the minimum value needed to qualify that the NFL has used since comp picks were first awarded.

Hypocycloid
03-23-2009, 09:15 PM
con't

There were two unusual cases this year, one involving Keary Colbert and the other involving Marques Douglas, and they each might or might not count in the comp picks equation.

Colbert was a UFA for Carolina who signed with Denver, was traded to Seattle on Sept. 17, then was cut by the Seahawks on Nov. 12. The only clue about how the NFL handles a player like this in the compensatory formula is the case of Qadry Ismail in 1998. He was a free agent for Minnesota in 1997, signed with Green Bay, then was traded to Miami during the preseason. He did not count in the equation for Minnesota or Green Bay. It’s not known whether he counted for Miami, because the Dolphins didn’t receive any comp picks in 1998, so the NFL never revealed which players counted as lost or signed for Miami. In Colbert’s case, it doesn’t matter whether he counts for Carolina and/or Denver, because neither team will receive a comp pick either way. They each signed more qualifying players than they lost, regardless of whether Colbert counts. It does matter for Seattle, though. If Colbert counts as a player added, the Seahawks would receive three comp picks. If he does not, the Seahawks would receive four. Because Colbert was a member of the Seahawks for only eight weeks, I am projecting that he will not count in the equation.

Douglas was a UFA for San Francisco who signed with Tampa Bay, then was traded to Baltimore on Aug. 27 and played in every game for the Ravens. Whether he counts for Tampa Bay and/or Baltimore is irrelevant, because they each signed more qualifying players than they lost. However, it does matter if he counts for San Francisco. If he counts as a player lost by the 49ers, they will receive two comp picks. If not, they will get one comp pick. I am projecting that Douglas will count as a player lost by the 49ers.

Last year, regardless of playing time or postseason honors, the third-round comp players had signed for at least $6.25 million per season, the fourth-round comp players had signed for $4.67 million to $5.225 million, the only fifth-round comp player had signed for $4.5 million, the sixth-round comp players had signed for $2.25 million to $3.75 million, and the seventh-round comp players had signed for $2.5 million or less per season. Note that there are huge gaps between some rounds, and that there is an overlap between the sixth and seventh rounds because of the adjustments for playing time. You’ll find the contract values for each round of this year’s projected picks in the list a few paragraphs below this one.

As I alluded to earlier, the NFL adds non-compensatory picks if fewer than 32 comp picks are awarded. The non-compensatory picks are given, in order, to the teams that would be drafting if there were an eighth round, until the maximum of 32 has been reached. If there are 28 true comps, for example, the NFL would give additional picks to the teams that would have the first four picks in the eighth round, if there were one. This year, I’m projecting that 30 true comps will be awarded, including Detroit’s and Arizona's comp picks for net-value losses, which I mentioned earlier. Therefore, I’m projecting that Detroit and Kansas City will receive non-compensatory picks to fill out the maximum number of picks. If the NFL’s equation results in more than three non-compensatory picks being added, the next six teams in line to receive one would be St. Louis, Cleveland, Seattle, Cincinnati, Jacksonville and Oakland, in that order.

Here are the projected picks for 2009, along with the compensatory player, their average contract value, their games played, their games started and other notes (I’ve also noted the nine picks that fall near a cutoff point and could end up in a different round) –


THIRD ROUND
New England (Asante Samuel, $9.3567 million per season, 15 GP/15 GS, Pro Bowl)
Pittsburgh (Alan Faneca, $7.8 million, 16/16, Pro Bowl)
Cincinnati (Justin Smith, $7 million, 16/16) – possibly a fourth-round pick

FOURTH ROUND
Chicago (Bernard Berrian, $6.9 million, 16/13) – possibly a third-round pick
N.Y. Giants (Gibril Wilson, $6.5008 million, 16/15) – possibly a third-round pick
San Diego (Michael Turner, $5.75 million, 16/16, Pro Bowl) – possibly a third-round pick
San Diego (Drayton Florence, $5.9333 million, 15/8)
Tennessee (Antwan Odom, $5.9 million, 12/8)
Indianapolis (Jake Scott, $4.8 million, 16/16) – possibly a fifth-round pick

FIFTH ROUND
San Francisco (Kwame Harris, $4.6667 million, 14/11)
New England (Donte Stallworth, $4.5393 million, 11/7)
Dallas (Jacques Reeves, $4 million, 16/16) – possibly a sixth-round pick
Tennessee (Travis LaBoy, $4.4 million, 13/12) – possibly a sixth-round pick

SIXTH ROUND
Tennessee (Randy Starks, $3.885 million, 16/4)
New England (Randall Gay, $3.3125 million, 14/13)
Dallas (Julius Jones, $2.9 million, 15/10)
Cincinnati (Landon Johnson, $2.733 million, 15/0) – possibly a seventh-round pick
San Francisco (Marques Douglas, $2.525 million, 16/0) – possibly a seventh-round pick

SEVENTH ROUND
Tennessee (Ben Hartsock, $2.25 million, 11/11)
Washington (Mark Brunell, $1.755 million, 2/0)
Seattle (Chuck Darby, $1.467 million, 15/15)
Seattle (Ellis Wyms, $1.4 million, 16/0)
Chicago (John Gilmore, $1.333 million, 16/10)
Seattle (Kevin Bentley, $1.3 million, 16/7)
Chicago (Brendon Ayanbadejo, $1.223 million, 16/0, Pro Bowl)
Cincinnati (Bryan Robinson, $1.2125 million, 16/15)
Seattle (D.J. Hackett, $1.2 million, 9/2)
Jacksonville (Terry Cousin, $1.115 million, 16/0)
Detroit (net-value comp pick, lost three for $10.721 million, 38/22; signed three for $7.134 million, 42/31)
Arizona (net-value comp pick, lost three for $9.45 million, 46/42; signed three for $6.9625 million, 40/27)
Detroit (non-compensatory pick)
Kansas City (non-compensatory pick)



As noted, the values of nine comp picks fell near the cutoff points between rounds, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the comp pick for Smith is in the fourth round, if the comp picks for Berrian, Wilson and/or Turner are in the third round, if the comp pick for Scott is in the fifth round, if the comp picks for Reeves and LaBoy in the sixth round or if the comp picks for Johnson and/or Douglas are in the seventh round. (Actually, if Douglas’ value falls in the seventh round, the 49ers’ comp pick would be for Maurice Hicks and would fall between Chicago’s pick for John Gilmore and Seattle's pick for Kevin Bentley.)

Of course, other projected picks could be off by one round (or more) if the NFL happened to change the formula or increase the cutoff points by significantly more or less than I projected.


Here are the qualifying players lost and signed (in order of value) for the 15 teams that I’m projecting will receive comp picks –

ARIZONA
Lost: Calvin Pace, Bryant Johnson, Keydrick Vincent
Signed: Travis LaBoy, Clark Haggans, Bryan Robinson


CHICAGO
Lost: Bernard Berrian, John Gilmore, Brendon Ayanbadejo
Signed: None

CINCINNATI
Lost: Justin Smith, Madieu Williams, Landon Johnson, Bryan Robinson
Signed: Antwan Odom

DALLAS
Lost: Jacques Reeves, Julius Jones
Signed: None

DETROIT
Lost: Damien Woody, Boss Bailey, T.J. Duckett
Signed: Brian Kelly, Michael Gaines, Chuck Darby

INDIANAPOLIS
Lost: Jake Scott
Signed: None

JACKSONVILLE
Lost: Bobby McCray, Ernest Wilford, Sammy Knight, Terry Cousin
Signed: Drayton Florence, Jerry Porter, Cleo Lemon

NEW YORK GIANTS
Lost: Gibril Wilson, Kawika Mitchell, Reggie Torbor
Signed: Sammy Knight, Danny Clark

NEW ENGLAND
Lost: Asante Samuel, Donte Stallworth, Randall Gay
Signed: None

PITTSBURGH
Lost: Alan Faneca, Clark Haggans
Signed: Mewelde Moore

SAN DIEGO
Lost: Michael Turner, Drayton Florence
Signed: None

SAN FRANCISCO
Lost: Justin Smiley, Kwame Harris, Marques Douglas, Maurice Hicks
Signed: Justin Smith, Bryant Johnson

SEATTLE
Lost: Josh Brown, Niko Koutouvides, Chuck Darby, Ellis Wyms, Kevin Bentley, D.J. Hackett
Signed: Julius Jones, T.J. Duckett

TENNESSEE
Lost: Jacob Bell, Antwan Odom, Travis LaBoy, Randy Starks, Ben Hartsock, Chris Brown
Signed: Jake Scott

WASHINGTON
Lost: Mark Brunell
Signed: None

Anyone else who was lost or signed by one of those teams last offseason is not projected to qualify for the equation, for one reason or another. Remember, players have to meet certain criteria in order to qualify for the equation (see the eighth paragraph of these projections for a summary of the criteria), so a lot of players will not count in the equation. Most of the time, it’s either because the player had been released by his previous team and was not a true UFA, or because the player didn’t sign for enough money to qualify.

OX1947
03-23-2009, 09:24 PM
Winning the Super Bowl had to be the deciding factor. Because this doesn't make sense.

TasmanianTroy271
03-23-2009, 09:28 PM
I find it odd that this guy, who obviously knows what he's talking about, got all the 3rd and 4th round projections right, except the steelers pick. Even if postseason awards count, that still shouldn't knock us down to a 5th rounder.

Hypocycloid
03-23-2009, 09:29 PM
It seems really weird. AdamJT13 just posted on that thread:

" I had 26 correct (with almost all of them in the correct order), plus three more off by one round (all of which I said were possible). Two of the ones I missed, I had listed as possibilities if certain players qualified (they did). The Steelers' pick is the only one I really didn't anticipate at all. I can't explain it, but hopefully the Pittsburgh media gets an answer to that question. Faneca played 99 percent of the snaps, made the Pro Bowl and got a huge contract ($7.8 million per season, plus a little more that doesn't count in the equation). I even went back and looked for funny money in his contract and couldn't find any.

And no, being a guard doesn't have anything to do with it.
Reply With Quote"

Hypocycloid
03-23-2009, 09:33 PM
It doesn't make sense, I wish that the NFL would release the formula. Perhaps the people that decide it are made up of New England Patsie's Execs. I guess that the reason that they don't release it is so that when they shaft a team, they can explain it as a secret formula.

fansince'76
03-23-2009, 09:36 PM
The NFL uses a complicated system to determine compensatory picks. The Steelers were awarded their extra choice based on losing two unrestricted free agents last year, Alan Faneca and Clark Haggans, versus signing one, Mewelde Moore....

+ Troy daring to question Kommissar Goodell and his pussifying of the league, prompting Der Kommissar to send several flunkies to the Steelers' FO to "talk" about it.

I smell a rat.

tyler289
03-23-2009, 09:42 PM
I was really hoping for a 3rd but I can live with a 5th. The more draft picks the better, so anything is good in my eyes.

tyler289
03-23-2009, 10:09 PM
For the record, the Patriots got the highest overall comp. pick at 97th overall, and also received a 5th and 6th round pick.

Now, the Pats have 6 picks in the first 100 overall.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-6-495/Patriots-gain-three-compensatory-draft-picks.html

Texasteel
03-23-2009, 10:27 PM
For the record, the Patriots got the highest overall comp. pick at 97th overall, and also received a 5th and 6th round pick.

Now, the Pats have 6 picks in the first 100 overall.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-6-495/Patriots-gain-three-compensatory-draft-picks.html

I normally don't pay much attention to the Pansy's, but I will have to figure out just what they lost to get almost another half a draft. Particularly just a year after they got cause blatantly cheating.

tyler289
03-23-2009, 10:42 PM
I normally don't pay much attention to the Pansy's, but I will have to figure out just what they lost to get almost another half a draft. Particularly just a year after they got cause blatantly cheating.

They lost Stallworth to the Browns, Samuel to the Eagles, and another DB Gay to another team (can't remember).

I think Samuel was a pro-bowler.

lilyoder6
03-23-2009, 10:45 PM
i can see the ansante ordeal he was a big FA the eagles did sign... but still the steelers should of gotten a 3rd b/c faneca was has huge as samual was and went to the pro bowl

tony hipchest
03-23-2009, 11:29 PM
i think its all kinda a slap in the face.

but didnt we also add hartwig this season? along with k. fox?

i gotta say MOP was right, although i was sure our losses in monetary compensation and production far outweighed the gains.

looks like if we had kept mayhan and not upgraded with hartwig, we may have got a 3rd or 4th for faneca. :hunch:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-24-2009, 01:08 AM
Was that you Gonzo that was high on the Tank, what was his name
Sullivan?

Frank Summers-UNLV. I cant take credit for finding his workout....somebody else picked it up.

I like what he said in the interview and what Kirby Wilson said about him being hard to bring down. Plus, I just want to see him roll into camp ..............in the "Red Dragon"!! Old School is such a good movie:thumbsup:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-24-2009, 01:11 AM
i would love to see us get gerald cadogen in the 5th round, but isnt he projected higher than that?
I think before the combine that Cadogin was something like a 6th or 7th round pick. He showed some athleticism, but not strength and is a solid leader, so he might climb higher. I was hoping he would be the sleeper 7th round that could be a RT........but dont think he is a 7th round guy any longer.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-24-2009, 01:14 AM
looks like if we had kept mayhan and not upgraded with hartwig, we may have got a 3rd or 4th for faneca. :hunch:

Just think if we didnt tag Max Starks last season, we probably would have got that 3rd round pick.

We could have won the Super Bowl with Trai Essex and Anthony Collins as our LT's, saved $6.9million and got a high compensatory pick.

Aussie_steeler
03-24-2009, 02:41 AM
Now that we have been allocated the first comp pick in round 5 ( pick 33) I look at the 32nd pick in round 5 as a trade option to move up 2-3 spots in the second or 6-7 spots in the thirdround if needed. That could be the difference in getting the player the FO really wants.

I would almost guarantee a trade up in the second now to get a targetted player.

Galax Steeler
03-24-2009, 05:03 AM
I guess we will have to settle for a 5th. I think everyone including me was wanting a 3rd but I guess we take the good with the bad.

lilyoder6
03-24-2009, 09:13 AM
i don't get how a team like the bengals get the 2nd highest highest comp pick when they rly didn't lose anyone big... and we lost a pro-bowl guard..

but it's w/e..9 picks isn' that bad

CanadianSteel
03-24-2009, 10:23 AM
Seems the Steelers once again got screwed by the league... maybe they didnt... but then they should release the friggin formula that designates the picks awarded...

tyler289
03-24-2009, 10:35 AM
Now that we have been allocated the first comp pick in round 5 ( pick 33) I look at the 32nd pick in round 5 as a trade option to move up 2-3 spots in the second or 6-7 spots in the thirdround if needed. That could be the difference in getting the player the FO really wants.

I would almost guarantee a trade up in the second now to get a targetted player.

With so few roster spots, I can definitely see the FO trading up in the middle to late rounds.

Fire Haley
03-24-2009, 11:18 AM
Bullcrap. The NFL is out to screw us because we don't have the league toughest schedule again.

The Lakelander
03-24-2009, 12:43 PM
I just read on the ESPN AFC north blog that we only got a 5th round pick... we were expected to get a third rounder, so this comes as a very unpleasant surprise.

It throws a wrench in our ability to trade up in Round 1. We could have moved up and spent a Round 1 (#32 pick) and a Round 3 (Compensatory pick) and a Round 6 pick while maintaining a Round 2 and Rounds 3 and 4 picks in the process. Now it would be very costly to move up in Round 1.

revefsreleets
03-24-2009, 12:45 PM
Since we ALWAYS pick a QB in the 5th-7th rds, these extra picks come in handy.

tony hipchest
03-24-2009, 12:50 PM
The NFL uses a complicated system to determine compensatory picks. The Steelers were awarded their extra choice based on losing two unrestricted free agents last year, Alan Faneca and Clark Haggans, versus signing one, Mewelde Moore.

ok, i guess players like b. leftwich, j. hartwig, and k. fox must be looked at as cut players picked up offa the street as opposed to unrestricted free agents :noidea: which makes just getting a fifth for faneca even more a slap in the face.

steelreserve
03-24-2009, 05:25 PM
Just think if we didnt tag Max Starks last season, we probably would have got that 3rd round pick.

We could have won the Super Bowl with Trai Essex and Anthony Collins as our LT's, saved $6.9million and got a high compensatory pick.

... and if we'd not franchised him THIS year, we could've signed a free agent who would have been as valuable as a first-round pick. Ugh.

But seriously, why am I not surprised that the Pats* got both the highest pick overall and the most picks overall? They lost some guys, but they weren't THAT great. If we only get a fifth-rounder for Faneca, the NFL formula seems to be projecting everyone the Pats* lost as future Hall of Famers.

Isn't the formula also only supposed to give picks if they lost a player of some value? In which case, did I miss something with Stallworth? Last time I checked, if all you did all season was catch 17 passes and kill someone, that doesn't count as contributing to your team's success.

Pi Kapp Steeler
03-24-2009, 10:34 PM
Ugh

steelerdave1969
03-25-2009, 02:58 PM
I know that I am hating the Patriots and their pretty boy more and more every day. For the Steelers to only get a 5th round choice is obsurd. The Patriots hasnt lost a player as good as Faneca as long as I can remember. What a joke!!!

steelerdave1969
03-25-2009, 03:10 PM
These are the Steelers selections in the upcoming '09 NFL Draft according to fftoolbox.com ( fantasyfootballtoolbox).
With Round and selection number in each round.
1. 32
2. 32
3. 32
4. 32
5. 32
5. 33
6. 32
7. 32
7. 33
Just thought you all might be interested. You can find each teams picks just like this on the website

fftoolbox.com

Hypocycloid
03-25-2009, 09:24 PM
I can't take credit for this info, I stole it from SteelNutDave on another forum but I thought you guys would like to take a look at it:


"The only other free agents lost/gained by the Steelers were signed for less than the 7th round threshhold. Plus, they would have cancelled each other out.

Lost: QB Brian St. Pierre
Gained: LB Keyaron Fox

To spell out the debacle a little further, here's the comp picks awarded along with the players that undoubtedly generated the picks (with salary info copied from AdamJT's comp pick projection: salary per year, games played/games started, post-season honors):

3 33-97 New England Patriots
(Asante Samuel, $9.3567 million per season, 15 GP/15 GS, Pro Bowl)

3 34-98 Cincinnati Bengals
(Justin Smith, $7 million, 16/16)

3 35-99 Chicago Bears
(Bernard Berrian, $6.9 million, 16/13)

3 36-100 New York Giants
(Gibril Wilson, $6.5008 million, 16/15)

4 33-133 San Diego Chargers
(Michael Turner, $5.75 million, 16/16, Pro Bowl)

4 34-134 San Diego Chargers
(Drayton Florence, $5.9333 million, 15/8)

4 35-135 Tennessee Titans
(Antwan Odom, $5.9 million, 12/8)

4 36-136 Indianapolis Colts
(Jake Scott, $4.8 million, 16/16)

5 33-169 Pittsburgh Steelers
(Alan Faneca, $7.8 million, 16/16, Pro Bowl)

5 34-170 New England Patriots
(Donte Stallworth, $4.5393 million, 11/7)

5 35-171 San Francisco 49ers
(Kwame Harris, $4.6667 million, 14/11)

Utter crap!!!!!

I'm sorry, but there's no way that Mewelde Moore was not cancelled out by Clark Haggans:

Clark Haggans - 1 Year Deal -- Total Contract $1,355,760 -- $1,355,760 mill. per year
Mewelde Moore - 3 Year Deal -- Total Contract $4,950,000 -- $1.66 mill. per year

But even if Moore had 300k more per year than Haggans (and fewer starts), how does that make up for the $3 million difference between Faneca's annual compensation and that signed by Jake Scott, the free agent who generated the comp pick before him????? Certainly the extra money that Moore and Fox earned from winning the Super Bowl can't make up the difference. (Did the secret formula mistake Moore's contract to be a one-year contract instead of a three-year? That would make up the difference & be a major "Oopsie!" by the league.)"

Hypocycloid
03-26-2009, 02:20 AM
Here is the answer why we got a fifth rather than a 3rd for Faneca:



http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/viewfromthepressbox/

Aussie_steeler
03-26-2009, 02:54 AM
But contained among the many rules in the complicated formula for deciding what and how many compensatory picks each team receives is one that declares that a 10-year veteran cannot bring higher than a fifth-round draft choice. Faneca finished his 12th NFL season

Nice BS rule. Guess they are saying that you have had some value out of your player so be grateful that you get anything at all.

CanadianSteel
03-26-2009, 01:27 PM
O wonder if they just made that rule up and stuck it in there. :banging:

Has there been any other key NFL free agents signed with 10 years experience. I would like top see what picks were awarded in similar case previous....