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SteelCurtain
01-09-2006, 09:50 AM
What do you guys think the Steelers need to do to shut down the Colt's offense. Personally, I think we need to play a lot more physically than what we did against the Bengals. Our corners need to get up on the line and jam the receivers everytime to disrupt their timing. Like what we did in the second half against Johnson. We need to have way more pressure on Manning than what we were managing on Kitna. We need to come out playing like this from the beginning, not like we did in the first half of the Bengals and Lions games, or we will be playing catch up from so far away we'll be wishing it was only the 10 point spread they are predicting. I think if we can disrupt their timing with jamming the receivers we are going to get some key turnovers and the W secures itself in our recordbook.

Suitanim
01-09-2006, 09:56 AM
After the initial shock wore off, there was a point in that first match-up where the Steelers had Peyton confused and the defense was playing well...this was evident when Manning threw the ball right to Troy P.

I don't think we need to dramatically change our defense, but the intensity needs to stay high, and the D needs to bend not break and not give up any cheap big plays. The Colts are going to get their points, but we need to run the football and keep that O off the field.

IndyMatt
01-09-2006, 10:16 AM
What do you guys think the Steelers need to do to shut down the Colt's offense. Personally, I think we need to play a lot more physically than what we did against the Bengals. Our corners need to get up on the line and jam the receivers everytime to disrupt their timing. Like what we did in the second half against Johnson. We need to have way more pressure on Manning than what we were managing on Kitna. We need to come out playing like this from the beginning, not like we did in the first half of the Bengals and Lions games, or we will be playing catch up from so far away we'll be wishing it was only the 10 point spread they are predicting. I think if we can disrupt their timing with jamming the receivers we are going to get some key turnovers and the W secures itself in our recordbook.


Your smash mouth style worked wonders for you last time. You should definitely come in with that same gameplan.

Jamming the receivers and turnovers will not win you this game. Ben will need to throw 15-20 times and get over 200 yards in order for you to even attempt to establish your running game. Your defense can try to disrupt Manning, but in doing so, you'll lose to our run and/or short passing game.

Should be a good game, but I also thought the last game should have been close. Good luck and I look forward to a good week of discussions.

TexaSteeler
01-09-2006, 11:25 AM
I say we just do what the Chargers did. Change up the pass rush so it's not so predictable and get to Payton. If we don't, we're screwed, plain and simple.

Our pass rush and blitzes are very predictable recently. Our losses to Indy, NE and Cinci showed that.

And when anyone puts 8 guys in the box and we can't run, we're screwed too. So he's right, Ben needs to establish the throw as a threat, especially short throws that pull the LBs out of the box.

Suitanim
01-09-2006, 11:50 AM
I think the key will be, no matter what the gameplan, to actually EXECUTE it this time around...I also think the offense will be better equipped to handle the crowd noise, miked up or not.

Ambridge
01-09-2006, 12:05 PM
I think the Steelers should try some more of the two man rush and drop every one else into coverage when situation on obvious passing downs presents itself.
It had Kitna a little confused the few times it was used maybe the Steelers pass coverage can catch a break on a Manning mistake.

workhorse
01-09-2006, 12:12 PM
I think the Steelers should try some more of the two man rush and drop every one else into coverage when situation on obvious passing downs presents itself.
It had Kitna a little confused the few times it was used maybe the Steelers pass coverage can catch a break on a Manning mistake.

Most teams were trying something similar at the begining of the season against the Colts, they will just give the ball to Edge. It's the gameplan that the Pats used to run against the Colts, but now they have seen it quite a bit and know how to play against it. The Steelers are going to need to mix up their coverages and while I know the Steeler thrive on the blitz, they may want to back off the bltzing and try to get pressure with their front seven. Peyton has a lot of success against the blitz.

Prosdo
01-09-2006, 02:57 PM
I agree with mixing up the coverage. Teams seem to pick up our blitz pretty well lately. I think we have to mix it up.

MichiSteeler
01-09-2006, 02:59 PM
Keys to victory:
1. Establish the run better than any game this year.
2. No interceptions.
3. Make big plays on defense.
4. Confuse colts offense.
5. Apply pressure

SteelerFanInCA
01-09-2006, 03:00 PM
We definitely have to mix it up in keeping that same balance between the passing and running game. I believe the defense will also come up with a big play or two.

augustashark
01-09-2006, 03:45 PM
Personally, I think we need to play a lot more physically than what we did against the Bengals. Our corners need to get up on the line and jam the receivers everytime to disrupt their timing. Like what we did in the second half against Johnson.


Alot will go into a gameplan but we must not let them dictate what we do on defence! I agree completly with you. Playing up on the receivers is the key to the game. Their entire passing game is timing and if you can disrupt that then you go a long way to beating them. Easier said then done I know but that is a good first step. Cover two with hard press on the corners with some zone blitz under. I also agree not to stay in this D the whole game we must mix it up and mix it up alot. If we are going from an 8 man rush on 1st down then back to 2 man rush on 2nd down. You can't react when you play Manning. Look at the old films of the pats they pressed on the corners and played attack, then without notice they would play cover two then back to zone blitz. You have to be proactive not reactive!!!!!!!! IMO

Gameplanning there D to come later!

Prosdo
01-09-2006, 03:49 PM
I'm sure LeBeau is already planning big time. Let's hope he comes up with some great stuff.

Rotorhead
01-09-2006, 05:50 PM
Our Def, aside from the first play, played fine last game. Our Off was the ones the were chewed up all night. I think the experience of playing in the dome already will go a long way and since the Off seems to be clicking right now, this should be a much closer game than most are thinking.

SteelerFanInCA
01-09-2006, 06:21 PM
Our Def, aside from the first play, played fine last game. Our Off was the ones the were chewed up all night. I think the experience of playing in the dome already will go a long way and since the Off seems to be clicking right now, this should be a much closer game than most are thinking.
Agreed. Come Sunday we will shock the football community.

SalukiSteelers
01-09-2006, 06:36 PM
Stop the Edge becuase if he has over 120 yards this game it's going to be ugly. Pressure Manning in to moving in the pocket and forcing throws because if he has to move around and improvise maybe the Steelers defense can force some turnovers. Don't be so darned predictable on offense becuase run, run, pass (if the run isn't working) is not going to get Pittsburgh any more points than they had last game. Plus, Ben could use a little more time in the pocket but with the great combination of size and speed on Indy's line that might be tough. I may be wrong, but doesn't Indy give up a ton of return yards? Maybe if Pittsburgh can get some good field position the offense won't feel like they have to press. Did the Colts even punt last game?

Livinginthe past
01-09-2006, 08:16 PM
Alot of the things that Pittsburgh need to do are footballing basics.

1. Dominate T.O.P. - I have heard alot about Mannings new found 'patience' and his willingness to hand off to Edge if teams load the backfield. I am still of the opinion that if the Steelers can get a lead and keep Manning off the park he will try and take matters into his own hands - most likely with bad results.

2. Pressure On Manning - Manning has never been a mobile QB so its important to get in his face early and often.

3. Late D Formation Alterations - Manning relies heavily on making reads of the opposing D whilst behind centre - the Steelers D should keep shifting around to the last minute to keep him confused

4. Look Deep Against the Colts D - The Colts run D has improved this year with the addition of Corey Simon - but the defensive backfield is still a weakness for the Colts. Jason David and Bob Sanders have looked very shaky in pass coverage - this is an area the Steelers have to exploit early - not when they are forced to pass due to trailing in the game.

5. Stay Physical At The Line - The Colts are still all about timing patterns - it is still necessary to hit the WR's on the line to disrupt this - its often a fine line with the 5yd illegal contact penalties - but the Steelers MUST walk this tightrope.

5. Dont play Steeler football - I mentioned it is important to dominate TOP - but the Steelers must open up passing early to create chances to run - the Steelers O-Line and RB's simply aren't dominating enough to prosper against 8/9 in the box.

I will openly admit that I have the Colts winning this game, but I will be backing the Steelers 100% on the day.

Good Luck

NM

tony hipchest
01-09-2006, 09:27 PM
i definitely agree with #4 litp. i think you beat teams like the colts and the pats in the 1st quarter not the 4th. if you go in expecting to hang with them and expect to pull out the win late you are most likely to lose. confidence playes a HUGE part in their success and it is important to shake that confidence early. both of them hate getting hit, and are used to playing with the lead probably 90-95% of the time. one thing i saw with the jags against the patriots is that they didnt want to use weapons like m. jones or jimmy smith until absolutely necessary (when they were playing from behind.) if teams like the colts and bengals are gonna throw an 66-80 yd bomb on us in the 1st play of the game, we must be willing and able to return the favor. i wouldve loved to see the trick play we used to wilson as the 1st play against the colts. this type of hakeup and confidence builder can force the colts to press and get a little worried.

SteelerDan43
01-09-2006, 09:31 PM
Alot of people are not giving the Steelers a chance (mainstream comentators). I think they are really forgeting the "any given sunday" cliche. We were favored by alot in the AFC championship against the Colts in 95, but it came down to the end and a hail mary pass. Who's to say the Colts dont come out flat and lay an egg. We almost did in that game and almost did last year vs the Jets. So I'm not buyin that this is gonna be a blow out. Thats why we play the games. :helmet:

TexaSteeler
01-09-2006, 11:15 PM
I haven't thought about how to defend the no huddle offense. That didn't bode well for us last time. How did the Chargers do it?

BlitzburghRockCity
01-09-2006, 11:20 PM
After the initial shock wore off, there was a point in that first match-up where the Steelers had Peyton confused and the defense was playing well...this was evident when Manning threw the ball right to Troy P.

I don't think we need to dramatically change our defense, but the intensity needs to stay high, and the D needs to bend not break and not give up any cheap big plays. The Colts are going to get their points, but we need to run the football and keep that O off the field.


you hit it right on the head Suit...

Remember our defense held manning to only 2 TD's and the rest were FGs. If we could have generated just alittle bit of offense in the form of a running game we can loosen up that pass rush by the colts by letting Ben us play action more which opens up the running game which keeps peyton on the sidelines and our offense on the field.

Prosdo
01-09-2006, 11:21 PM
All very excellent points LITP. Rep points for that. My big ones are 3 and 5. On number 3 I couldn't agree more. Manning is great when it comes to changing plays. Disguising coverage and shifting a lot should help a good bit. On number 5 I agree big time with throwing the ball early some. This shows them look you want to stack the line. Fine we'll pass and we're not afraid to.

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 06:42 AM
I haven't thought about how to defend the no huddle offense. That didn't bode well for us last time. How did the Chargers do it?

Personally, I think the best way to defend the no-huddle offense is to rely on good coaching before hand and having a defensive captain who is able to diagnose plays/formations at the line of scrimmage.

The no-huddle is a very effective tool for scoring points but it does have one major downside - you dont spend alot of time with your offense on the field - therefore your D ends up with a heavy workload.

We all know that the Colts D is built around speed - speed takes energy - so if the Steelers can keep the Colts D on the field for long spells they will become less and less effective.

The bottom line is - if you have an under-coached or inexperienced D they will be exposed against the the no-huddle - but if your D is well coached and well led the no huddle can back-fire spectacularly.

Who is the Steelers defensive captain - or the player most likely to be able to diagnose Colts formations?

NM

Prosdo
01-10-2006, 06:46 AM
Joey Porter and James Farrior are the captains on D. I would think one or the other could do it, but I'm not positive.

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 06:46 AM
All very excellent points LITP. Rep points for that. My big ones are 3 and 5. On number 3 I couldn't agree more. Manning is great when it comes to changing plays. Disguising coverage and shifting a lot should help a good bit. On number 5 I agree big time with throwing the ball early some. This shows them look you want to stack the line. Fine we'll pass and we're not afraid to.

Thanks Prosdo.

I have noticed that the patriots will run a number of 'sacrifice plays' - ones that dont come off but they get the opposition D thinking.

I have seen Kevin Faulk run plenty in situations that you would normally pass in (3rd and 6 for example)- so the next time we are in that situation the other teams D has to respect the run and therefore leaves gaps for Brady to make a pass.

Brady will often throw a few bombs down the field early in the game - this will push the oppositions safetys back so the Pats can work their more favored mid-distance routes.

NM

Prosdo
01-10-2006, 06:49 AM
I know Indy is going to stack the line. I just hope Whiz will run some plays that makes Indy back off the line.

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 06:51 AM
Joey Porter and James Farrior are the captains on D. I would think one or the other could do it, but I'm not positive.

Well Prosdo,

I think one of those LB guys hold the key to stopping the Colts Offense. Linebacker/Safety are definitely the best positions to read formations and rearrange your own to suit.

Last year we had Bruschi in the LB corps looking after the D-Line and LB's and Rodney Harrison taking care of the Safetys and the CB's - experience, a cool head and good communication skills are worth their weight in gold in these positions.

NM

Prosdo
01-10-2006, 06:57 AM
I would say probably James then. He is pretty cool headed. Plus Joey is hard to understand when he screams lol

Suitanim
01-10-2006, 09:39 AM
LOL...the Steelers OL and RB's aren't dominating enough to run against 8/9 in the box? Where do you come up with this stuff, LITP? Have you watched any of the games? I can't think of one team this year that didn't line up 8/9 in the box this year, and yet we finished 5th in the NFL in rushing.

The Steelers don't need to abandon the run unless they fall behind significantly (More than 14 points), and the easiest way to avoid that is to control the clock by running the ball. The key is for the Steelers to make their passing attempts count in way they haven't in playoff games in the past, namely, by making accurate throws that are caught and not intercepted...Ben can do that.

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 10:22 AM
LOL...the Steelers OL and RB's aren't dominating enough to run against 8/9 in the box? Where do you come up with this stuff, LITP? Have you watched any of the games? I can't think of one team this year that didn't line up 8/9 in the box this year, and yet we finished 5th in the NFL in rushing.

The Steelers don't need to abandon the run unless they fall behind significantly (More than 14 points), and the easiest way to avoid that is to control the clock by running the ball. The key is for the Steelers to make their passing attempts count in way they haven't in playoff games in the past, namely, by making accurate throws that are caught and not intercepted...Ben can do that.

Ok allow me to rephrase - The Steelers O-Line and RB's aren't dominating enough to run against 8/9 in the box when they are facing good AFC teams with decent D - in other words the caliber of team they will meet in the playoffs.

Stats for planned runs only (not including QB scrambling)

vs Colts - 23 atts 45 yards - 1.96 avg

vs Pats - 20 atts 62 yards - 3.1 avg

vs Chargers - 30 atts 89 yards - 2.97 avg

vs Jax - 27 atts 58 yards - 2.15 avg

I am going to totally discount games against the likes of Tennessee, Cleveland, and Cincinnati because their run D flat out sucks.

Honorable mention to the performance against Chicago - but we all know which conference they come from dont we?

So Suit, if you wish to wear your Steeler blinkers (a little like Cowher does at playoff time) go ahead and bash away with your '5th rated' running attack - we'll so how far it gets you this year - im willing to bet it will be about as far as last year.

Cheers

NM

workhorse
01-10-2006, 10:52 AM
Personally, I think the best way to defend the no-huddle offense is to rely on good coaching before hand and having a defensive captain who is able to diagnose plays/formations at the line of scrimmage.

The no-huddle is a very effective tool for scoring points but it does have one major downside - you dont spend alot of time with your offense on the field - therefore your D ends up with a heavy workload.

We all know that the Colts D is built around speed - speed takes energy - so if the Steelers can keep the Colts D on the field for long spells they will become less and less effective.

The bottom line is - if you have an under-coached or inexperienced D they will be exposed against the the no-huddle - but if your D is well coached and well led the no huddle can back-fire spectacularly.

Who is the Steelers defensive captain - or the player most likely to be able to diagnose Colts formations?

NM

The Colts have changed their mindset a bit with their offense this year. They've been running the ball a lot more, even when they are successful passing. They aren't scoring with 2 minute drives nearly as much. The Colts realized it's much easier on their D if they take time off the clock while scoring. So, even though they are working out of the no huddle, they use just as much time as if they were huddling between plays. Watch the play clock, Peyton runs it down to the 3 to 5 second range. They just use the no huddle to take advantage of a mismatch with the defensive personnel, not letting them substitute between plays.

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 10:59 AM
The Colts have changed their mindset a bit with their offense this year. They've been running the ball a lot more, even when they are successful passing. They aren't scoring with 2 minute drives nearly as much. The Colts realized it's much easier on their D if they take time off the clock while scoring. So, even though they are working out of the no huddle, they use just as much time as if they were huddling between plays. Watch the play clock, Peyton runs it down to the 3 to 5 second range. They just use the no huddle to take advantage of a mismatch with the defensive personnel, not letting them substitute between plays.

Thats a very good point Workhorse.

I had noticed that Manning likes to get his team set early but not necessarily snap the ball early.

The thing is, the Colts have been in charge of nearly every game so far from the get-go - I wonder if Peyton will be quite so willing to leave the snap to the 3-5 sec range if the Colts face an early deficit?

On another note - every time Peyton shouts "Attack Attack" thats exactly what I want to do to him - guess that just me being a Pats fan :rolleyes:

Cheers

NM

Suitanim
01-10-2006, 11:02 AM
(Shaking finger) uh-uh-uh...not so fast. You've recently used an example of the Pats improvement in some stat or other, and not the season as a whole, so, "Blinkers" aside (I'm sure you meant blinders), I feel very comfortable using the last 5 weeks numbers as a good indicator of how good the Steelers run game is when the team is relatively healthy and running on all cylinders.

Chicago (Legitimate top 5 D, regardless os conference)- 190 yards
Minnesota- 142
Cleveland- 209
Detroit- 199
Cincy- 144

I firmly believe the Steelers are good enough to run the ball against the Colts, as long as they don't have a significant deficit on the scoreboard to overcome...Since I hardly consider games as recent as week 11 relevant, why would I consider what last years playoff team did as moreso? I will hang my hat on the fact that Cowher's playoff record is mediocre because if you challenge the run, they have had mediocre QB's to take up the slack, but this is no longer the case.

tony hipchest
01-10-2006, 11:05 AM
Thats a very good point Workhorse.

I had noticed that Manning likes to get his team set early but not necessarily snap the ball early.

The thing is, the Colts have been in charge of nearly every game so far from the get-go - I wonder if Peyton will be quite so willing to leave the snap to the 3-5 sec range if the Colts face an early deficit?

On another note - every time Peyton shouts "Attack Attack" thats exactly what I want to do to him - guess that just me being a Pats fan :rolleyes:

Cheers

NM

kinda like every time brady shouts "omaha". i wouldnt mind seeing manning complete another 80 yd td, right off the bad if the steelers bring everything and the kitchen sind and manning is on his back with a bloody nose/mouth. those 7 points may pay big dividends if you can effect his play for the rest of the game. we must hit him early and any quick strike must atleast find him on his back to make him think twice about doing it again. stopping edge will still be the main component though.

83-Steelers-43
01-10-2006, 11:18 AM
To keep it short and simple (I don't put much thought and emphasis in past games or numbers). Pressure Manning. Get him scrambling. Much like San Diego did. Ike and Deshea have to play solid. Keep Wayne and Harrison to short yardage gains. We give up the 60-80 yard pass early and get down on points, we will lose this game. This is not Cincinnati. We can't afford to make the mistakes or fall in points and expect to come back like we have in the past.

Ike and Deshea will be KEY in this upcoming game in my opinion.

tony hipchest
01-10-2006, 11:18 AM
Ok allow me to rephrase - The Steelers O-Line and RB's aren't dominating enough to run against 8/9 in the box when they are facing good AFC teams with decent D - in other words the caliber of team they will meet in the playoffs.

Stats for planned runs only (not including QB scrambling)

vs Colts - 23 atts 45 yards - 1.96 avg

vs Pats - 20 atts 62 yards - 3.1 avg

vs Chargers - 30 atts 89 yards - 2.97 avg

vs Jax - 27 atts 58 yards - 2.15 avg



funny thing about stats and numbers like these is that it works both ways.

the patriots havent really proven they can beat a pro bowl calibur qb this year. (i will leave out big ben cause he hasnt been to a pro bowl yet and he did drive the ball up and down the field pretty effectively anyways.

j. delhomme- loss
d. brees-loss
j. plummer-loss
p. manning- loss
t. green- loss

other than big ben the best 2 qb's theyve actually defeated this season was

k. collins and
a. brooks

(not exactly cream of the crop.)

Grey
01-10-2006, 11:42 AM
We need to come out playing like this from the beginning, not like we did in the first half of the Bengals and Lions games, or we will be playing catch up from so far away we'll be wishing it was only the 10 point spread they are predicting.

Yes, I think one of the keys to a victory has to be for the defense to start strong. If you look at what they did this year, they started slow in a lot of games. They tended to give up a big drive on the first or second series. It seemed to take a while for them to get the engine moving, but it cannot be that way against the Colts, or we are in trouble.

With the Colts being in shut-it-down-and-rest mode for the last month or so, you'd like to think that they might have a slow start, so if the Steelers can start quick and be physical early, I think that will give us an edge.

Here we go. :tt:
Grey

SteelerFanInCA
01-10-2006, 12:58 PM
Alot of people are not giving the Steelers a chance (mainstream comentators). I think they are really forgeting the "any given sunday" cliche. We were favored by alot in the AFC championship against the Colts in 95, but it came down to the end and a hail mary pass. Who's to say the Colts dont come out flat and lay an egg. We almost did in that game and almost did last year vs the Jets. So I'm not buyin that this is gonna be a blow out. Thats why we play the games. :helmet:
Right on SteelerDan!!!

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
01-10-2006, 02:01 PM
111111111111111111111

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 07:11 PM
funny thing about stats and numbers like these is that it works both ways.

the patriots havent really proven they can beat a pro bowl calibur qb this year. (i will leave out big ben cause he hasnt been to a pro bowl yet and he did drive the ball up and down the field pretty effectively anyways.

j. delhomme- loss
d. brees-loss
j. plummer-loss
p. manning- loss
t. green- loss

other than big ben the best 2 qb's theyve actually defeated this season was

k. collins and
a. brooks

(not exactly cream of the crop.)

Wow what a surprise here I am on a Steeler forum, talking Steeler football ...and we end up talking about the Patriots yet again.

We have been down the road of 'Pats havent played anyone yet' - been there, bought the T-Shirt.

This thread was supposed to be about the game plan for the Steelers against the Colts - nothing to do with the Pats.

There are other threads dedicated to the Pats where we can discuss our quality of opposition.

The fact is the Steelers havent ran the ball on decent AFC opposition this year - on sunday they are playing decent AFC opposition - this is why my stats are relevant.

Your stats belong somewhere else.

NM

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 07:15 PM
(Shaking finger) uh-uh-uh...not so fast. You've recently used an example of the Pats improvement in some stat or other, and not the season as a whole, so, "Blinkers" aside (I'm sure you meant blinders), I feel very comfortable using the last 5 weeks numbers as a good indicator of how good the Steelers run game is when the team is relatively healthy and running on all cylinders.

Chicago (Legitimate top 5 D, regardless os conference)- 190 yards
Minnesota- 142
Cleveland- 209
Detroit- 199
Cincy- 144

I firmly believe the Steelers are good enough to run the ball against the Colts, as long as they don't have a significant deficit on the scoreboard to overcome...Since I hardly consider games as recent as week 11 relevant, why would I consider what last years playoff team did as moreso? I will hang my hat on the fact that Cowher's playoff record is mediocre because if you challenge the run, they have had mediocre QB's to take up the slack, but this is no longer the case.

Hey Suit,

If you are happy using stats that have been compiled against poor (recent) opposition than that is fine - the Bears have a good D but I still think it is very relevant that they play in the NFC - how many decent QB's can you name me from that conference?

Its a fair point that Ben should be improved this year and maybe that is all it will take for Pittsburgh to take the final step to the big game - only time will tell.

NM

tony hipchest
01-10-2006, 07:51 PM
Hey Suit,

If you are happy using stats that have been compiled against poor (recent) opposition than that is fine - the Bears have a good D but I still think it is very relevant that they play in the NFC - how many decent QB's can you name me from that conference?



NM
This thread was supposed to be about the game plan for the Steelers against the Colts - nothing to do with naming decent qb's from the nfc.

lol! see what i did there?

Rotorhead
01-10-2006, 08:06 PM
I am not so sure we should even focus on shutting down edge. If he is getting alot of carries than the Colts are playing our game, slow and time consuming drives. He is not going to break a long one for a TD, our def is built to stop the run. That plays into our hands cause it will not be a shootout that way. I would like to see the Colts have to go to the running game for the entire game to beat us. We need to hit Manning early for sure. I think our running game will be fine against them. If they stack the line we have the capability for the short passing game to be effective and I think we will take some deep shots. We just need to have a solid defensive performance and I believe this game will come down to last possesion or turnovers.

DIESELMAN
01-10-2006, 08:27 PM
Keys to victory:
1. Establish the run better than any game this year.
2. No interceptions.
3. Make big plays on defense.
4. Confuse colts offense.
5. Apply pressure

You said it right there....thats the game plan.....and don't forget #6 the steelers need a couple of big plays on offense...one or two 10 second scoring drives would be sweet!!!

Suitanim
01-10-2006, 09:23 PM
Hey Suit,

If you are happy using stats that have been compiled against poor (recent) opposition than that is fine - the Bears have a good D but I still think it is very relevant that they play in the NFC - how many decent QB's can you name me from that conference?



So what's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander? Not that long ago, you were harping on the recent improvents of the Pats defense, but, when one peels just the first layer of THAT onion back, we see that, since Bruschi's return, and the supposed resurrection of the Pats D, they have played and beaten Miami twice, the Jets twice, Tampa, New Orleans, and Buffalo, hardly the cream of the offensive crop in the NFL. The two teams with good offenses they did play (KC and Indy) they gave up 66 total points too, and lost both games.

Speaking of QB's, on that list of Pats wins, is there one quality QB?

I'm afraid that this "Cold Hard Facts" addiction is blinding you to the reality of the situation. Essentially, your argument is based upon the basic tenet's of "CHF" (i.e. Cowher is an inferior coach due to his reliance on the run) being accurate, and it's not. That assessment was questionable to begin with, and Cowher overcame many of the "myth's" by winning on the road in the playoffs in a game the Steelers were not supposed to win. I need not address the QB issue again...

It's interesting to note the Pats fans glaring blind spot, that their own "Golden Boy" hardly tore it up in his first year. In fact, if one were to go back and look at the 2001 stats, they'd see that Brady had a very "Ben-like" year, and that the offense was very Pittsburgh-like, with the offense running for a little over 110 a game and the offense passing for a little under 200 per game. And, to boot, if Belichick were to be judged on his performance pre-2001, well...I've said enough...

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 09:26 PM
This thread was supposed to be about the game plan for the Steelers against the Colts - nothing to do with naming decent qb's from the nfc.

lol! see what i did there?

Allow me to link them seemingly unrelated facts for you.

Steelers run big numbers against the Chicago - Chicago is reputed to have a shut down defense - Chicago plays in the NFC which has hardly any decent QB's - Chicagos D is overrated - therefore......Steelers big numbers against the Chicago means little when playing a decent AFC D (The Colts).

Maybe you would like to explain how the Patriots strength of schedule this year affects the Colts v Steelers gameplan?

NM

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 09:29 PM
So what's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander? Not that long ago, you were harping on the recent improvents of the Pats defense, but, when one peels just the first layer of THAT onion back, we see that, since Bruschi's return, and the supposed resurrection of the Pats D, they have played and beaten Miami twice, the Jets twice, Tampa, New Orleans, and Buffalo, hardly the cream of the offensive crop in the NFL. The two teams with good offenses they did play (KC and Indy) they gave up 66 total points too, and lost both games.

Speaking of QB's, on that list of Pats wins, is there one quality QB?

I'm afraid that this "Cold Hard Facts" addiction is blinding you to the reality of the situation. Essentially, your argument is based upon the basic tenet's of "CHF" (i.e. Cowher is an inferior coach due to his reliance on the run) being accurate, and it's not. That assessment was questionable to begin with, and Cowher overcame many of the "myth's" by winning on the road in the playoffs in a game the Steelers were not supposed to win. I need not address the QB issue again...

It's interesting to note the Pats fans glaring blind spot, that their own "Golden Boy" hardly tore it up in his first year. In fact, if one were to go back and look at the 2001 stats, they'd see that Brady had a very "Ben-like" year, and that the offense was very Pittsburgh-like, with the offense running for a little over 110 a game and the offense passing for a little under 200 per game. And, to boot, if Belichick were to be judged on his performance pre-2001, well...I've said enough...

This is the kind of nonsense I was trying to avoid.

I ask you again - why are you posting about the Patriots strength of schedule on this thread?

Im quite happy to debate any Pats stuff - I just dont see why we are doing it here.

NM

tony hipchest
01-10-2006, 09:46 PM
Allow me to link them seemingly unrelated facts for you.

Steelers run big numbers against the Chicago - Chicago is reputed to have a shut down defense - Chicago plays in the NFC which has hardly any decent QB's - Chicagos D is overrated - therefore......Steelers big numbers against the Chicago means little when playing a decent AFC D (The Colts).

Maybe you would like to explain how the Patriots strength of schedule this year affects the Colts v Steelers gameplan?

NM first of all the bears strength of schedule or the nfc quarterbacks have absolutely nothing to do with the gameplan in question.

but to address your point-

sticking with the bears own division within the conference.... yeah, farve and culpepper suck and b. johnson hasnt done squat in this league. harrington wasnt a top 5 pick. the nfc definitely doesnt have the likes of a manning, brady, palmer, but mcnabb, warner, bulger have shown they can put up numbers with the best of them.

you you really think an injured culpepper turned to crap over night or is your assessment of him as a qb really based more on the vikings as a team? who has been the best qb down the stretch? not tom brady. (sorry but its true) it is matt hasselbeck. really playing the strength of schedule card this late in the season is really a moot point. the steelers and all other teams are in the playoffs today for a reason and strenght of schedule isnt it.

the strength of schedule changes drasticly. are you basing your numbers off last years record or this seasons. what seems like it may be an extremely tough s.o.c. at the beginning of the season. can turn out to be a very weak one after 16 games are played. the bears and steelers play in the nfl just like everyone else.

VegasStlrFan
01-10-2006, 09:55 PM
Keys for the Steelers:
Defensively: - Pressure on Manning & disrupting the receivers routes (changing defensive looks, new blitzes, hit the recievers on line, mixup the coverages etc... no secrets here the Pat's made the blueprint and the Chargers proved it works). Manning will throw picks if he has people in his face. Their running game won't beat us but Manning can if given the chance. Very important, we need some bigtime "Highlight Film HITS" early to set the tone. The defense has to make this a brawl!!

Offensively: - The play calling will need to be a little less conservative. Play-action should work right away. We need to get yards in the air early, quick slants and tightend seams off of play-action and then take a couple of shots downfield. I'm not saying abandon the run, I'm saying use the pass early (2 pass, 1 run) to try and spread the defense to establish the run. We won't be able run against their 8-9 man fronts right out of the gate. Its a fine line we don't want a track meet, but we can't be so predictable. The O-Line has got to play well, give Ben some time to pass and Ben has got to play BIG! This is chance for him to make alot of people eat their words.

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 09:57 PM
first of all the bears strength of schedule or the nfc quarterbacks have absolutely nothing to do with the gameplan in question.

but to address your point-

sticking with the bears own conference.... yeah, farve and culpepper suck and b. johnson hasnt done squat in this league. harrington wasnt a top 5 pick. the nfc definitely doesnt have the likes of a manning, brady, palmer, but mcnabb, warner, bulger have shown they can put up numbers with the best of them.

you you really think an injured culpepper turned to crap over night or is your assessment of him as a qb really based more on the vikings as a team? who has been the best qb down the stretch? not tom brady. (sorry but its true) it is matt hasselbeck. really playing the strength of schedule card this late in the season is really a moot point. the steelers and all other teams are in the playoffs today for a reason and strenght of schedule isnt it.

My point was that the Steelers have NOT been able to put up good rushing numbers this year against quality opposition.

Maybe my definition of quality is different than yours - my opinion is that the NFC has hardly any decent QB's - which is a major factor in why the Chicago D is touted as being so good.

Surely it makes sense that if a team is facing a poor level of quarterbacking most weeks then it can afford to shut down the running game of that opposition?

My opinion is that the Chicago D is ok but nothing that alot of AFC teams couldnt score on - they played two good AFC teams - the Bengals and the Steelers and lost both games conceding over 20 points to both.

I havent seen anything in the previous posts that makes me think that the Steelers can run against 8/9 in the box against decent AFC opposition.

Show me some playoff caliber teams in the AFC that the Steelers have run on?

NM

Justin Otstott
01-10-2006, 09:58 PM
I see some good points in this thread, and I agree with vegas.

Suitanim
01-10-2006, 10:05 PM
This is the kind of nonsense I was trying to avoid.

I ask you again - why are you posting about the Patriots strength of schedule on this thread?

Im quite happy to debate any Pats stuff - I just dont see why we are doing it here.

NM

This is why you are my favorite poster here...supremely confidant and secure, brushing the subject of the thread against your true underlying cause (Let's face facts; Your motivation for being on this board is hardly altruistic) while simultaneously denying it...but that's cool. Whatever...

Let's get back on track, then, if you'd like. I contend that the Steelers, with their improved OL play (and Marvel Smith being back, freeing up the TE), and Ben's increasing poise at his position, along with the emerging one-two punch of Willie's speed and Jerome's brawn, that the Colt's will have their hand's full containing the Steelers offense this week, pumped in dome noise or not. Let me make this clear...I say that, provided the Steelers defense can rise to the occasion, the Steelers OL and RB's are more than the Colt's can handle for 4 quarters of football.

tony hipchest
01-10-2006, 10:13 PM
I havent seen anything in the previous posts that makes me think that the Steelers can run against 8/9 in the box against decent AFC opposition.



NM

who the hell can??? tell me that. get real please. by your quirky little argument i will just deduce that you have already conceded the sb to the colts cause they can pretty much run on anybody. including the 1 defense in the league you feel isnt over rated (the pats) and the steelers. weve seen what they have done against denver the past 2 years.

Suitanim
01-10-2006, 10:13 PM
I havent seen anything in the previous posts that makes me think that the Steelers can run against 8/9 in the box against decent AFC opposition.


NM

See, this is brilliant! If we do run against the Colts this weekend, you can revert back to your previous posts where you claim the Colts D was overrated...so, in point of fact, you can never really be wrong.

tony hipchest
01-10-2006, 10:20 PM
See, this is brilliant! If we do run against the Colts this weekend, you can revert back to your previous posts where you claim the Colts D was overrated...so, in point of fact, you can never really be wrong.how convinient, a classic case of having your cake and eating it too. every team in the nfl is over rated, and no team has faced quality opposition (except the pats of course)

Suitanim
01-10-2006, 10:27 PM
I'm just so TIRED of the Pats...I'm tired of the commercials, I'm tired of the bias, I'm tired of the Bruschi nonsense, I'm tired of the officials, I'm tired of the Belichick genius talk, I'm tired of the "no-respect" bullshit...I'm tired of having New England Patriots football forced down my throat. I can't wait until about 11:30 Saturday night, because, at least for a few months, the over-exposure will finally recede...

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 10:28 PM
This is why you are my favorite poster here...supremely confidant and secure, brushing the subject of the thread against your true underlying cause (Let's face facts; Your motivation for being on this board is hardly altruistic) while simultaneously denying it...but that's cool. Whatever...

Let's get back on track, then, if you'd like. I contend that the Steelers, with their improved OL play (and Marvel Smith being back, freeing up the TE), and Ben's increasing poise at his position, along with the emerging one-two punch of Willie's speed and Jerome's brawn, that the Colt's will have their hand's full containing the Steelers offense this week, pumped in dome noise or not. Let me make this clear...I say that, provided the Steelers defense can rise to the occasion, the Steelers OL and RB's are more than the Colt's can handle for 4 quarters of football.

Ok you got me Suit - my real reason for being here is not altruistic at all - its to keep taking $10 off you on sports related bets.

As far as the football goes id love to see Pittsburgh win this weekend and give the Pats a shot at a home AFCCG.

My honest opinion is that you essentially have two different types of 3rd down backs in Willie Parker and Jerome Bettis.

Willie is a speedy guy with useful hands but who doesnt break many tackles and Bettis is awesome when you need 2yards for the 1st down.

Parker has alot to learn but is talented - maybe this will be his genuine breakout game?

But do I honestly think that either of them will run over the Colts D in a run-first mode?

The answer has to be no.

Maybe the O-Line will have an amazing game and punch holes left, right and centre - hats off to them if they do.

The Colts DB division is weak, but then the Steelers have been underachieving in this area aswell recently.

Id also like to see Ben pass earlier and hit his TE as I believe he could be a real danger to the Colts if he gets a head of steam up.

NM

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 10:32 PM
who the hell can??? tell me that. get real please. by your quirky little argument i will just deduce that you have already conceded the sb to the colts cause they can pretty much run on anybody. including the 1 defense in the league you feel isnt over rated (the pats) and the steelers. weve seen what they have done against denver the past 2 years.

The answer of course is no-one.

My whole point is that the SB cannot be won with such an emphasis on running the ball at every opportunity.

There are too many quality AFC run defenses.

Im not sure where you got the impression that the Colts can run on anyone?

Where did I say that?

I dont think I have even raised the subject of the Colts running game versus the Steeler defense?

NM

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 10:35 PM
See, this is brilliant! If we do run against the Colts this weekend, you can revert back to your previous posts where you claim the Colts D was overrated...so, in point of fact, you can never really be wrong.

When I claimed that the Colts D was overrated - it was near the mid point of the season - you must remember the comparisons with various great Bears D's being bandied about?

They were conceding 6 points a game or something similar - shortly after that the gates opened a little and they reverted to type.

The Colts remain a decent D - just not the world beaters everyone was claiming them to be after week 8.

Cheers

NM

Livinginthe past
01-10-2006, 10:37 PM
I'm just so TIRED of the Pats...I'm tired of the commercials, I'm tired of the bias, I'm tired of the Bruschi nonsense, I'm tired of the officials, I'm tired of the Belichick genius talk, I'm tired of the "no-respect" bullshit...I'm tired of having New England Patriots football forced down my throat. I can't wait until about 11:30 Saturday night, because, at least for a few months, the over-exposure will finally recede...

Poor Suitanim - have a nice lie down - maybe the world will seem a little less cruel after a little nap?

NM

Suitanim
01-10-2006, 10:41 PM
Ok you got me Suit - my real reason for being here is not altruistic at all - its to keep taking $10 off you on sports related bets.



It's never quite made sense to me why you are such a proficient poster at a site of an opposing team, but not just any team...the one team YOUR team has defeated in the playoffs the last few years.

Post this much at any other sites? Any Pats sites? Hell, you've over 1,000 posts and you've only been here a month longer than me...The whole thing just seems a little....odd.

Justin Otstott
01-10-2006, 10:47 PM
^hmmmm....good point there, never thought of that.

augustashark
01-10-2006, 10:49 PM
Ok you got me Suit - my real reason for being here is not altruistic at all - its to keep taking $10 off you on sports related bets.

As far as the football goes id love to see Pittsburgh win this weekend and give the Pats a shot at a home AFCCG.

My honest opinion is that you essentially have two different types of 3rd down backs in Willie Parker and Jerome Bettis.

Willie is a speedy guy with useful hands but who doesnt break many tackles and Bettis is awesome when you need 2yards for the 1st down.

Parker has alot to learn but is talented - maybe this will be his genuine breakout game?

But do I honestly think that either of them will run over the Colts D in a run-first mode?

The answer has to be no.

Maybe the O-Line will have an amazing game and punch holes left, right and centre - hats off to them if they do.

The Colts DB division is weak, but then the Steelers have been underachieving in this area aswell recently.

Id also like to see Ben pass earlier and hit his TE as I believe he could be a real danger to the Colts if he gets a head of steam up.

NM


$10 bets.....Are you kidding me you and I had a 10 spot on the Cincy game and now your not going to pay up......I gave you 9 points.....Steelers won by 14......Now you wont pay me.....

my advice to everyone here on sf do not bet with litp!

tony hipchest
01-10-2006, 10:56 PM
i am the one saying that the colts and the seahawks can pretty much run on anyone they want. if you wanna dispute this and dig up stats from 2 or 3 games where they didnt, feel free. (but then again i thought l.t. could run on anyone he wanted until he faced a healthy steeler team in week 5.) just because brady led the league in passing doesnt mean that running the ball and clock control is a lost art in the nfl. belichick with the giants could tell you that it is effective. sure ben needs to pass and even elway couldnt win a sb without a strong running game. is ben elway? not yet. does seattle and the colts and denver have the best running attacks? id say so with pittsburgh a close second. look at the remaining playoff teams, running is a main staple. i think it is a proven formula that is here to stay regardless of what the defending sb champs have achieved up to this point.

i realize some think pats have invented the way "real" football is supposed to be played but fact of the matter is there have been many different effective ways of winning a sb. running the ball, defense, and clock control has proven to be the most effective manner.

tony hipchest
01-10-2006, 11:05 PM
When I claimed that the Colts D was overrated - it was near the mid point of the season - you must remember the comparisons with various great Bears D's being bandied about?

They were conceding 6 points a game or something similar - shortly after that the gates opened a little and they reverted to type.

The Colts remain a decent D - just not the world beaters everyone was claiming them to be after week 8.

Cheers

NM

no one called the colts world beaters after week 8 but the fact of the matter is they had beaten 8 of 8 teams and went on to beat their 1st 13 (of course that only means squat if youre the patriots).

when will you ever admit that you were just wrong? atleast if the pats lose in the playoffs you can fall back on the injuries and not having homefield advantage excuse right? way to hedge them bets.

Suitanim
01-10-2006, 11:08 PM
I was wrong...I was wrong UT-OSU, and I was wrong about the Pats...I figured they'd go 9-7 or 10-6 and finish second in their division. I was wrong...

tony hipchest
01-10-2006, 11:12 PM
I was wrong...I was wrong UT-OSU, and I was wrong about the Pats...I figured they'd go 9-7 or 10-6 and finish second in their division. I was wrong...

i was wrong. i said the pats would go 8-8 or 9-7 and win their division.:dang: i also predicted the steelers to have the best record in the afc north and to win it too. :redface: i guess i was only half wrong there.:cool:

shevdog
01-10-2006, 11:41 PM
What do you guys think the Steelers need to do to shut down the Colt's offense.

1. Pound the ball with the running game, taking control of the game clock.
2. Have the Steelers defense keep up what they did on MNF when they got Manning all fustrated.

BlitzburghRockCity
01-11-2006, 12:49 AM
Plain and simple the colts are gonna go long and pass the ball like they did in the first game. Yeah they ran it pretty effectively on us, but everytime peyton sees 1 on 1 coverage he's gonna jump on it unless we stop it. We've got not get caught looking in the backfield so we can keep up w/ the WR's and stay on them like glue.

Livinginthe past
01-11-2006, 08:43 AM
It's never quite made sense to me why you are such a proficient poster at a site of an opposing team, but not just any team...the one team YOUR team has defeated in the playoffs the last few years.

Post this much at any other sites? Any Pats sites? Hell, you've over 1,000 posts and you've only been here a month longer than me...The whole thing just seems a little....odd.

Im not too sure how often we are going to have to keep going over this old, old ground Suitanim.

I have laid out my reasons for posting here numerous times.

Maybe you would like me to run through them again in a word document so you can set it as your wallpaper - so in your deepeest moments of paranoia you can always refer to it?

The Steelers and Patriots look like they will have a rivalry for a good few years to come and I happen to respect the Steeler franchise and its fanbase.

I tried to post on a Colts forum (maybe you want to let them know that the Steelers are "the one team the Patriots have defeated in the playoffs the last few years") - but every thread turns into a flame war.

I enjoy the relatively non-biased football talk I get on this forum compared to any Patriots forums - I post on patfans.com - but mostly use it as a resource for information.

I hope this answers your queries satisfactorily.

Yours Altruistically

NM

Livinginthe past
01-11-2006, 08:48 AM
$10 bets.....Are you kidding me you and I had a 10 spot on the Cincy game and now your not going to pay up......I gave you 9 points.....Steelers won by 14......Now you wont pay me.....

my advice to everyone here on sf do not bet with litp!

As I said in response to your PM on the subject - "Nice Try Shark"

I offered you the terms and said I wanted it set up using paypal - with someone like Suitanim holding the $20 until the result is confirmed.

All you gave me back was hogwash about how you are a 'simple kind of guy' and dont use things like that - I told you it was paypal or nothing - you decided not to reply....until after the game.

This is all confirmable by looking at the PM's - im sure admin can clear this up if you want to go down that path.

Just so you know, the $10 I won off Suitanim went into the forum donation pot - so i'd think twice before accusing me of welching on a bet.

NM

Livinginthe past
01-11-2006, 08:53 AM
no one called the colts world beaters after week 8 but the fact of the matter is they had beaten 8 of 8 teams and went on to beat their 1st 13 (of course that only means squat if youre the patriots).

when will you ever admit that you were just wrong? atleast if the pats lose in the playoffs you can fall back on the injuries and not having homefield advantage excuse right? way to hedge them bets.

This is just smack talk Tony.

I cannot believe that you are forgetting all the hype surrounding the Colts D after the first half of the season - I am talking about the media - not any posters on here.

This seems to happen in every thread - you go off on crazy tangents - this time its the Patriots injuries is it?

Show me where I have said anything about the Patriots injuries being an excuse for post-season failure?

I know you cant do it - because like nearly everything you post of this nature its just hot air - you make stuff up, then when asked to back it up - you cant.

Just this once Tony - prove me wrong.

Ill be waiting.

NM

Suitanim
01-11-2006, 08:57 AM
Whatever makes you happy, I guess...

Livinginthe past
01-11-2006, 09:05 AM
Whatever makes you happy, I guess...

Thanks Suit,

thats very magnanimous of you.

NM

Suitanim
01-11-2006, 09:22 AM
This whole exchange is just...odd. But, whatever...let's move on.

For the second time, I'll post this with the hopes we can hop back on track

I contend that the Steelers, with their improved OL play (and Marvel Smith being back, freeing up the TE), and Ben's increasing poise at his position, along with the emerging one-two punch of Willie's speed and Jerome's brawn, that the Colt's will have their hand's full containing the Steelers offense this week, pumped in dome noise or not. Let me make this clear...I say that, provided the Steelers defense can rise to the occasion, the Steelers OL and RB's are more than the Colt's can handle for 4 quarters of football

tony hipchest
01-11-2006, 09:50 AM
This is just smack talk Tony.

I cannot believe that you are forgetting all the hype surrounding the Colts D after the first half of the season - I am talking about the media - not any posters on here.

This seems to happen in every thread - you go off on crazy tangents - this time its the Patriots injuries is it?

Show me where I have said anything about the Patriots injuries being an excuse for post-season failure?

I know you cant do it - because like nearly everything you post of this nature its just hot air - you make stuff up, then when asked to back it up - you cant.

Just this once Tony - prove me wrong.

Ill be waiting.

NM

what you call hype, i call proper media recognition. the whole argument that the pats always use to support their supreme dominance over the colts has been
1) colts have no d
2) peyton will always choke against the pats, especially in foxboro

the fact that the colts have found a d really seemed to irk you as did any talk or "hype" by the media of their newfound defense. you had yourself convinced it was all a mirage and product of a weak schedule(which is really a weak argument). the colts improvement never suprised me cause i always recognized the potential of young players like freeney, doss, sanders, and then upstarts like triplett and reagor led by a really good defensive minded coach.

if the media can hype the colts downfalls for the past 3 years and their lack of a d. and hype the pats dominance, whats wrong with recognizing when things have changed? i think your just pissed that people think the colts can beat the pats. disrespect right. maybe youre just a little afraid and defensive that the run may be over. the colts d is good and anyone really looks kind of stupid when they say otherwise.

now i will prove you wrong. have the pats failed yet? no. did i accuse you of making excuses? no. i simply stated the fact that you can always fall back on the injury excuse and not having homefield advantage if the pats go on to lose. only if you desire. i dont know if you will go that route or not. but if it came down to a colts/pats rematch where the colts advanced i dont see the patfans conceding they lost to a better team. after all a 3peat is their birthright. no need to put words in my mouth and no need to get so defensive. like i said no accusations in what was pretty much a blanket statement at you, which pretty much adressed patfan nations mindset as a whole. sorry if you took that the wrong way.

Livinginthe past
01-11-2006, 10:07 AM
what you call hype, i call proper media recognition. the whole argument that the pats always use to support their supreme dominance over the colts has been
1) colts have no d
2) peyton will always choke against the pats, especially in foxboro

the fact that the colts have found a d really seemed to irk you as did any talk or "hype" by the media of their newfound defense. you had yourself convinced it was all a mirage and product of a weak schedule(which is really a weak argument). the colts improvement never suprised me cause i always recognized the potential of young players like freeney, doss, sanders, and then upstarts like triplett and reagor led by a really good defensive minded coach.

if the media can hype the colts downfalls for the past 3 years and their lack of a d. and hype the pats dominance, whats wrong with recognizing when things have changed? i think your just pissed that people think the colts can beat the pats. disrespect right. maybe youre just a little afraid and defensive that the run may be over. the colts d is good and anyone really looks kind of stupid when they say otherwise.

now i will prove you wrong. have the pats failed yet? no. did i accuse you of making excuses? no. i simply stated the fact that you can always fall back on the injury excuse and not having homefield advantage if the pats go on to lose. only if you desire. i dont know if you will go that route or not. but if it came down to a colts/pats rematch where the colts advanced i dont see the patfans conceding they lost to a better team. after all a 3peat is their birthright. no need to put words in my mouth and no need to get so defensive. like i said no accusations in what was pretty much a blanket statement at you, which pretty much adressed patfan nations mindset as a whole. sorry if you took that the wrong way.

If you listened closely to what the majority of Patriot fans have said over the last few years about the reasons behind the Colts losses in the playoffs - you would realise that the majority dont blame the D.

Most people blame Payton Manning for failing to produce when it counts - I cannot think of one high scoring shootout the Colts lost in the playoffs....can you?

The Colts D has not been a great unit during the Manning years - all the budget has been spent on giving the QB the best tools to compete in high scoring games.

I dont like the Colts and what they are doing to football - and that is my choice - but I can freely admit that their D has improved this year - I have spent a large part of this thread telling you and Suitanim that you wont be able to run on them in a run-first frame of mind - That is me telling you that they are a decent D.

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between 'hype' and 'reality' Tony.

What the Pats have achieved is not hype - it is fact - we have won 3 out of 4.

What the Colts have is hype because they havent achieved even a single SB appearance for all the talk the last 4 years.

This year I have no problem with the Colts being made favorite in any potential match-up - they deserve it this time - unlike two years ago.

You totally failed to prove me wrong Tony, have a look at the quote below.

when will you ever admit that you were just wrong? atleast if the pats lose in the playoffs you can fall back on the injuries and not having homefield advantage excuse right? way to hedge them bets.

You are clearly accusing me of 'hedging my bets' - you are saying im going to make excuses if we lose. Based on what?

Based on nothing Tony - hot air as usual.

I make posts based on a mixture of fact and opinion - you spend yours trying to guess what I am going to do or say in the future.......

NM

tony hipchest
01-11-2006, 10:58 AM
"I cannot believe that you are forgetting all the hype surrounding the Colts D after the first half of the season - I am talking about the media - not any posters on here."


"You seem to have trouble distinguishing between 'hype' and 'reality' Tony."

hmmmm....so you have opinions but i have hot air. funny how that works.



the pats 3 of 4 sb's dont give them or their fans a free pass. it seems like youre living in the past. all other teams accomplishments or success is hype??? any media attention is hype unless its directed towards the patriots??? every team with a good record or great stats can be attributed to a weak schedule or not facing formidable opponents right? this is hogwash. bummer that you dont like the colts or what they are doing to yours and the patriots nfl. thats really sad. but you know what... i bet tons of coltfans love it. and heres a dose of reality for you. tons of nfl fans in general dont like the pats or what theyre doing to the nfl. you see it goes both ways. its not a one way street named patriot lane. here is some more reality. the media isnt gonna bother singing the accolades of a 4-4 team regardles of their PAST sucess when their nemisis so to speak is out there at 8-0 doing with their defense what was said couldnt be done. why can you not see this and why did you and your team feel so slighted by this? fact is thats how the media works.

maybe me and the media are stupid. maybe they should just keep reporting on how the patriots defeated the colts 20-3 last year and won the sb. i bet if they told those stories every day they would increase viewership and sell a hell of alot more papers. all this talk about other teams this year really distract from the only story that matters in football. the pats 3 peat, bruschi, and what a great guy brady is.

thanks for opening my eyes to "reality"

Livinginthe past
01-11-2006, 11:19 AM
"I cannot believe that you are forgetting all the hype surrounding the Colts D after the first half of the season - I am talking about the media - not any posters on here."


"You seem to have trouble distinguishing between 'hype' and 'reality' Tony."

hmmmm....so you have opinions but i have hot air. funny how that works.



the pats 3 of 4 sb's dont give them or their fans a free pass. it seems like youre living in the past. all other teams accomplishments or success is hype??? any media attention is hype unless its directed towards the patriots??? every team with a good record or great stats can be attributed to a weak schedule or not facing formidable opponents right? this is hogwash. bummer that you dont like the colts or what they are doing to yours and the patriots nfl. thats really sad. but you know what... i bet tons of coltfans love it. and heres a dose of reality for you. tons of nfl fans in general dont like the pats or what theyre doing to the nfl. you see it goes both ways. its not a one way street named patriot lane. here is some more reality. the media isnt gonna bother singing the accolades of a 4-4 team regardles of their PAST sucess when their nemisis so to speak is out there at 8-0 doing with their defense what was said couldnt be done. why can you not see this and why did you and your team feel so slighted by this? fact is thats how the media works.

maybe me and the media are stupid. maybe they should just keep reporting on how the patriots defeated the colts 20-3 last year and won the sb. i bet if they told those stories every day they would increase viewership and sell a hell of alot more papers. all this talk about other teams this year really distract from the only story that matters in football. the pats 3 peat, bruschi, and what a great guy brady is.

thanks for opening my eyes to "reality"

There you go again Tony - I could heat whole office blocks with some of your posts.

I like I said - I mix in some facts with my opinion - you dont.

Ill repeat myself because the message doesnt seem to have suck in yet, luckily patience is a virtue of mine.

The Pats have won 3 of the last 4 SB's - these are real achievements regardless of what happens this year.

The Colts have won nothing and have not even appeared in a Superbowl - that my friend is hype - they never get the job done.

If the Colts are made favorites for a potential showdown this year you wont catch me moaning about it - I never have and never will do.

Moreover, if the Colts win the whole thing this year I will give them their due - because then their achievements will be fact....do you see how it works Tony?

I have no problem with people who dont like the Patriots, god knows a few of you on here are open enough about your dislike of them - thinly veiled jealousy if you ask me - bit im on a Steeler forum so I take my lumps.

I really think I am more fair minded than I have to be - I could spend all day every day telling everyone how we 'own' the Steelers - but I dont.

The fact is you are quite irrational when it comes to the Patriots because of your intense dislike of them - maybe the same holds true with my thoughts on the Colts - but at least I have facts on my side.

You can keep going on and on about how I felt 'slighted' when we were 4-4 - but that is yet more fabrications and lies - I know you cant show me any posts where I complained about our treatment in the media at that point ,can you?

Where have I ever said that the Patriots should make up 100% of the media - I even said I understood how people could get fed up hearing about Bruschi all the time.

You cannot show me where I have complained about 'unfair' treatment by the media because I havent done it.

Its as black and white as that - when Tony is losing an argument he just makes stuff up.

NM

tony hipchest
01-11-2006, 11:57 AM
"The fact is you are quite irrational when it comes to the Patriots because of your intense dislike of them - maybe the same holds true with my thoughts on the Colts - but at least I have facts on my side."

"maybe????????" do you have facts on your side or 3 rings on your hand? thats all you have brought to your argument is the pats are winners, every else is losers, nany nany boo boo. the colts are all hype cause they cant beat the pats, the steelers are all hype cause they cant beat the pats, they can only beat inferior competition, blah blah blah. every team is hype but the pats. sure, im irrational. enjoy your, facts, stats, and opinions cause it is old. and it only works one way.

why dont you take a look at the negative connotation in the definition of the word hype and i think you will see a bit of hateritis on your part as far as THE MEDIA COVERAGE of the colts is concerned. (but of course im losing an argument so im making all this up)

Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion: the hype surrounding the murder trial.
Exaggerated or extravagant claims made especially in advertising or promotional material: “It is pure hype, a gigantic PR job” (Saturday Review).
An advertising or promotional ploy: “Some restaurant owners in town are cooking up a $75,000 hype to promote New York as ‘Restaurant City, U.S.A.’” (New York).
Something deliberately misleading; a deception: “ [He] says that there isn't any energy crisis at all, that it's all a hype, to maintain outrageous profits for the oil companies” (Joel Oppenheimer).

tr.v. hyped, hyp?ing, hypes
To publicize or promote, especially by extravagant, inflated, or misleading claims: hyped the new book by sending its author on a promotional tour.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Partly from hype, a swindle (perhaps from hyper-), and partly from hype(rbole).]

tony hipchest
01-11-2006, 12:07 PM
so by definition these hypothetical statements would be hype:

"come to superbowl 40 and witness the greatest dynasty of all time" (assuming the pats make it)

"the patriots are unbeatable with brady, bilechick, and vinatieri."

"if patriots make it to the superbowl again theres no way they will be defeated"

these statements arent hype by definition:

"the colts are 8-0 and in a complete turnaround from previous years it can be attributed to their defense"

"the colts have held opponents to an average of 10 points in their 8-0 start"

"the colts have the ingredient theyve been missing to being a well ballanced team"

most of these statements can be attributed to the media.

Livinginthe past
01-11-2006, 12:08 PM
"The fact is you are quite irrational when it comes to the Patriots because of your intense dislike of them - maybe the same holds true with my thoughts on the Colts - but at least I have facts on my side."

"maybe????????" do you have facts on your side or 3 rings on your hand? thats all you have brought to your argument is the pats are winners, every else is losers, nany nany boo boo. the colts are all hype cause they cant beat the pats, the steelers are all hype cause they cant beat the pats, they can only beat inferior competition, blah blah blah. every team is hype but the pats. sure, im irrational. enjoy your, facts, stats, and opinions cause it is old. and it only works one way.

why dont you take a look at the negative connotation in the definition of the word hype and i think you will see a bit of hateritis on your part as far as THE MEDIA COVERAGE of the colts is concerned. (but of course im losing an argument so im making all this up)

Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion: the hype surrounding the murder trial.
Exaggerated or extravagant claims made especially in advertising or promotional material: “It is pure hype, a gigantic PR job” (Saturday Review).
An advertising or promotional ploy: “Some restaurant owners in town are cooking up a $75,000 hype to promote New York as ‘Restaurant City, U.S.A.’” (New York).
Something deliberately misleading; a deception: “ [He] says that there isn't any energy crisis at all, that it's all a hype, to maintain outrageous profits for the oil companies” (Joel Oppenheimer).

tr.v. hyped, hyp?ing, hypes
To publicize or promote, especially by extravagant, inflated, or misleading claims: hyped the new book by sending its author on a promotional tour.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Partly from hype, a swindle (perhaps from hyper-), and partly from hype(rbole).]

Wow looks like Tony has seen the light.

Of course the dictionary definitions you provided merely reinforce my point.

The last few years the Colts have been heralded by claims of them being a great team - then have often entered games with the Patriots as favorites only to get soundly beaten again.

The Patriots have not been the subject of hype because their claims are not extravagent, inflated or misleading - the Patriots are the Champs and will stay that way until somebody else wins the SB.

How can the defending champions claim be misleading?

The Pats have taken on all comers and beaten them for 3 of the last 4 years...how can any of this be hype...its only hype if you dont deliver Tony - you just happen to support one of the teams who hasn't...sorry about that.

NM

workhorse
01-11-2006, 12:10 PM
How is there a thread highjacking this long?

tony hipchest
01-11-2006, 12:15 PM
How is there a thread highjacking this long?

i think the colts/steelers gameplan topic is all moot and doesnt matter. its not even worth the hype cause neither team can compete with the sb defending champs. steelers cant run on the colts or pats, and the colts cant handle the pats or the pressure.:dang:

workhorse
01-11-2006, 12:19 PM
i think the colts/steelers gameplan topic is all moot and doesnt matter. its not even worth the hype cause neither team can compete with the sb defending champs. steelers cant run on the colts or pats, and the colts cant handle the pats or the pressure.:dang:

As long as we are taking this thread that direction...how will the Donkies do against the Pats?

tony hipchest
01-11-2006, 12:22 PM
As long as we are taking this thread that direction...how will the Donkies do against the Pats?

probably about as well as they did against the colts the past 2 years. i think shanahan was a product of elway not vice versa. and the pats were extremely crippled without faulk and dillon last time they met.

SteelerFanInCA
01-11-2006, 12:28 PM
There is reason to believe the Steelers not only can play better but will play better than their 26-7 beating at the hands of the Colts Nov. 28. Here's a few quick reasons why:

It's unlikely the Colts will throw an 80-yard touchdown pass on their first play from scrimmage.

Cowher probably will not open the second half with a failed onside kick that gave the Colts the ball on the Steelers' 37 and led to a second gimme touchdown.

Ben Roethlisberger will be at his peak, not playing in his first game after missing three following knee surgery.

Rookie Trai Essex won't be at left tackle. Marvel Smith is back in top physical condition, not trying to return after missing one game with a sprained ankle and then leaving midway in the second quarter with another sprained ankle.

"I like to think we're playing a little better than the last time we went in there," Cowher said. "Certainly we have some guys back who have played. That was Marvel's first game back, Ben's first game back.

tony hipchest
01-11-2006, 12:35 PM
There is reason to believe the Steelers not only can play better but will play better than their 26-7 beating at the hands of the Colts Nov. 28. Here's a few quick reasons why:

It's unlikely the Colts will throw an 80-yard touchdown pass on their first play from scrimmage.

Cowher probably will not open the second half with a failed onside kick that gave the Colts the ball on the Steelers' 37 and led to a second gimme touchdown.

Ben Roethlisberger will be at his peak, not playing in his first game after missing three following knee surgery.

Rookie Trai Essex won't be at left tackle. Marvel Smith is back in top physical condition, not trying to return after missing one game with a sprained ankle and then leaving midway in the second quarter with another sprained ankle.

"I like to think we're playing a little better than the last time we went in there," Cowher said. "Certainly we have some guys back who have played. That was Marvel's first game back, Ben's first game back.the teams that manning has struggled the most with are those that run the 3-4. this was seen last year with houston and patriots, and this year with the chargers. pittsburgh knows a little something about the 3-4. pittsburgh has stuff in there gameplan that hasnt been seen all year and when it happens on sunday people will be like "damn where did that come from?" expect the defense to run a few "gadget plays" this week.

Livinginthe past
01-11-2006, 01:00 PM
How is there a thread highjacking this long?

I tried 2 or 3 times to get it back on track but all tony wants to talk about is the Patriots - and his buddy Suitanim seems to want to use this thread to ponder this mystery of why I post here at all.

NM

Rotorhead
01-11-2006, 01:11 PM
I think the Broncos will beat the Pats, unfortunately, I think the Pats have just had too many key injuries. The Broncos are very balanced and their Def is solid. Plummer is playing with few mistakes and they have designed the off around his strengths to help it all out. I think the secondary of the Pats is worse than that of the Steelers and the Broncos can exploit it, that will be the difference in that game. As far as the Steelers/Colts it is all going to bank on the Steelers Def now that our Off is clicking again.

tony hipchest
01-11-2006, 01:23 PM
but all tony wants to talk about is the Patriots

NM

you mean the colts right? and how they are all hype? how they are a mediocre defense at best but the steelers cant run against them cause they are a good team.

there is a comparison between the steelers going into indy and the pats going into denver that you fail to realize. both teams are healthier, therefore what may not have worked in the first meeting may work this time. wake up.

Livinginthe past
01-11-2006, 02:43 PM
you mean the colts right? and how they are all hype? how they are a mediocre defense at best but the steelers cant run against them cause they are a good team.

there is a comparison between the steelers going into indy and the pats going into denver that you fail to realize. both teams are healthier, therefore what may not have worked in the first meeting may work this time. wake up.

Thats a fair point.

I do give the Steelers a chance of winning in Indy - they still remain a decent AFC team, its just that I expected the Steeler D to be a little more dominating at this point of the season.

Just out of interest, do you know what Cowhers record is like against teams he is playing for the 2nd time in a season?

Alot has been read into the fact that Belichick always has a good record with second time round (19-6 I think).

NM

Suitanim
01-11-2006, 02:50 PM
I tried 2 or 3 times to get it back on track but all tony wants to talk about is the Patriots - and his buddy Suitanim seems to want to use this thread to ponder this mystery of why I post here at all.

NM

And this will be my THIRD, yet you continually feel the need to have the last word...

PLEASE get back on track!

tony hipchest
01-11-2006, 03:58 PM
Alot has been read into the fact that Belichick always has a good record with second time round (19-6 I think).

NMtaking it right back to the patriots huh? :dang: better not do that in this thread, some people dont like it:sofunny:

actually i dont know what cowhers record is in that situation, off hand, teams i know hes beaten in the playoffs after facing them in the season is the browns twice, jets, patriots, colts, ravens, bengals.

he has lost to denver, patriots after facing (and beating them in the regular season).

as for the chiefs-L, bills 1-w and 1-L, dallas-L, sandiego-L and 2 other losses to the pats i dont know if that was their 1st meetings of the year.

i really dont pay attention to alot of the numbers that bookies and linesmakers look at. although i like that cowher is 100-1-1 whan leading by 10 points (it showh how often hes actually had a big lead. and i like that with ben theyre like 20-0 when they have 20+ rushes and something like 17-0 when ben throws fewer than 20 times. those will be the really relevant numbers to the gameplan this week. cowher WAS 0-3 away from home in the playoffs too so i like to think hes gonna even that out +1 by the end of this season

augustashark
01-11-2006, 04:57 PM
All this pats this and pats that has to go! This is a Steelers forum! We are playing the Colts this week. I'd rather watch two flys f*** then listen to anymore of this bullsh** about the pats!

Gameplan to beat Colts? Please!

And for the record LITP it does not matter if I had paypal or not or whatever it's called, You made a bet and we agreed! You refuse to pay thats fine, I just want everyone to know that you will not pay....Thats fair in my book. Dude $10 is nothing to me I was going to donate to the site anyway. If $10 is worth more than your word or your respect then dude you have issues!

Livinginthe past
01-11-2006, 05:03 PM
All this pats this and pats that has to go! This is a Steelers forum! We are playing the Colts this week. I'd rather watch two flys f*** then listen to anymore of this bullsh** about the pats!

Gameplan to beat Colts? Please!

And for the record LITP it does not matter if I had paypal or not or whatever it's called, You made a bet and we agreed! You refuse to pay thats fine, I just want everyone to know that you will not pay....Thats fair in my book. Dude $10 is nothing to me I was going to donate to the site anyway. If $10 is worth more than your word or your respect then dude you have issues!

Augusta,

You have been a pain in the ass since you turned up on this site - you and I both know you didnt bother to respond before the game when I asked for it to be done on paypal - you seriously think im going to wait around for a cashiers check from someone I dont know? Think again Bozo.

You can chirp all you want about how I didnt pay - I doubt anyone believes you anyway - all the evidence I need is on PM's - like I say im sure admin can confirm all this.

Good Day

NM

augustashark
01-11-2006, 05:08 PM
That's fine I will speak with whoever!

Just calling a spade a spade!

No need for threats or name calling! Check my posts and you will not find any of that!

I'll wait to here from you or whoever.

augustashark
01-11-2006, 05:16 PM
Now as far as the gameplan, I think we have to come out mix it up alittle throw more on 1st downs and use alittle more 4 and 5 wides! I'm not saying to use these alot but we must mix in some.....I think in the past playoff games we were way to predictable. I would also thank about using Jerome right off the bat....Try to soften up their D a little. Go deep like we did in Cincy (not only on trick plays) their dbs showed they can come up and hit pretty good but they have not shown that they are lights out on coverage! IMO

tony hipchest
01-11-2006, 06:26 PM
cowhers thoughts and insight on the gameplan:



Are you confident in your offense’s ability to score?



"I am and I think our players are. We have put up some points. When we had to put up some points. We have been throwing the ball when we have had to throw the ball. This will be a big challenge again this week. But I think that we would not have gotten where we are right now if we were not a balanced football team. Yes, we want to run the football but we feel that we have some playmakers that throw the ball, as well. Our quarterback is playing as well as he has played this year and I think he has been in this situation before so he won’t be overwhelmed by it. But we know the challenge. This is a good football team we are playing and we are going to have to be able to do both because they didn’t get to winning 13 straight games, or whatever it was, by being one-dimensional. We cannot allow them to continue to tee off and we have to be able to run the ball but at the same time, we have to make them respect us throwing it. We are going to have to be balanced. We are not going to be able to be one-dimensional in this game on either side of it."

he also said using ike on kick-offs and heath miller to spread them out and help replace quincy are options that they will see as the week progresses.

Suitanim
01-11-2006, 07:18 PM
Ike looked good on the first return, namely because he ran north/south and ran right past the coverage.

I think it cannot be emphasized enough how important freeing up Miller will be this week...after Smith left the game, we had to give Essex a lot of TE help which virtually eliminated the TE as a passing threat. Hopefully that's something we can exploit this time around...

workhorse
01-12-2006, 01:53 AM
the teams that manning has struggled the most with are those that run the 3-4. this was seen last year with houston and patriots, and this year with the chargers. pittsburgh knows a little something about the 3-4. pittsburgh has stuff in there gameplan that hasnt been seen all year and when it happens on sunday people will be like "damn where did that come from?" expect the defense to run a few "gadget plays" this week.

The Colts played against the 3-4 several this season and only lost one game.