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View Full Version : Loopholes let gun smuggling to Mexico flourish


tony hipchest
04-15-2009, 04:04 PM
Federal tracking system is crafted to protect Second Amendment rights

Excellent (but very long) article detailing the ease and precision these gun smugglers are obtaining guns and getting them across the boarder.

very cool video about Juarez (now considered one of the deadliest cities in the world) and its cartels in the link. warning: very graphic images of wasted bodies lying around in broad daylight.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30217992/

HOUSTON - In July 2006, John Phillip Hernandez, a 24-year-old unemployed machinist who lived with his parents, walked into a giant sporting goods store here and plunked $2,600 in cash on a glass display counter. A few minutes later, Mr. Hernandez walked out with three military-style rifles.

One of those rifles was recovered seven months later in Acapulco, Mexico, where it had been used by drug cartel gunmen to attack the offices of the Guerrero State attorney general, court documents say. Four police officers and three secretaries were killed.

Although Mr. Hernandez was arrested last year as part of a gun-smuggling ring, most of the 22 others in the ring are still at large. Before their operation was discovered, the smugglers had managed to transport what court documents described as at least 339 high-powered weapons to Mexico over a year and a half, federal agents said.

“There is no telling how long that group was operating before we caught on to them,” said J. Dewey Webb, the agent in charge of the Houston division of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Noting there are about 1,500 licensed gun dealers in the Houston area, he added: “You can come to Houston and go to a different gun store every day for several months and never alert any one.”

Evading detection
The case highlights a major obstacle facing the United States as it tries to meet a demand from Mexico to curb the flow of arms from the states to drug cartels. The federal system for tracking gun sales, crafted over the years to avoid infringements on Second Amendment rights, makes it difficult to quickly spot suspicious trends and to identify people buying for smugglers, law enforcement officials say.

As a result, in some states along the Southwest border where firearms are lightly regulated, gun smugglers can evade detection for months or years. In Texas, New Mexico and Arizona, dealers can sell an unlimited number of rifles to anyone with a driver’s license and a clean criminal record without reporting the sales to the government. At gun shows in these states, there is even less regulation. Private sellers, unlike licensed dealers, are not obligated to record the buyer’s name, much less report the sale to the A.T.F.

Mexican officials are desperate for America to clamp down on the flow of weapons that has kept drug cartels well-armed. Sending straw purchasers into American stores, cartels have stocked up on semi-automatic AK-47 and AR-15 rifles, converting some to machine guns, investigators in both countries say. They have also bought .50 caliber rifles capable of stopping a car and Belgian pistols able to fire rifle rounds that will penetrate body armor.


Federal agents say about 90 percent of the 12,000 pistols and rifles the Mexican authorities recovered from drug dealers last year and asked to be traced came from dealers in the United States, most of them in Texas and Arizona. The Mexican foreign minister, Patricia Espinosa, in talking with reporters recently, accused the United States of violating its international treaty obligations by allowing guns to flow into the hands of organized crime groups in Mexico.

But law enforcement officials on this side of the border say the legal hurdles to making cases against smugglers remain high. “Guns are legal to possess in this country,” said William J. Hoover, the assistant director for operations of the federal firearms agency. “If you stop me between the dealer and the border, I am still legal, because I can possess those guns."

xfl2001fan
04-15-2009, 04:21 PM
Wow...I can see where this is kind of a touchy situation...what is Mexico doing to protect itself from having these types of items go into the country though? I mean, if they had a better border patrol...

steelreserve
04-15-2009, 04:23 PM
I don't know exactly how they are proposing to fix this. Do they think we should make Texas be like California, where even mentioning that you own a gun will cause the same reaction in people as if you'd told them you have two dicks? Somehow, I don't think that's too likely.

tony hipchest
04-15-2009, 04:26 PM
Wow...I can see where this is kind of a touchy situation...what is Mexico doing to protect itself from having these types of items go into the country though? I mean, if they had a better border patrol...thats the thing. the cartels own the boarder patrol. they own the cops, the judges, they infiltrate the military.

drug money rules. those who try to stop it are slaughtered. (see- youtube... thread)

Dino 6 Rings
04-15-2009, 04:40 PM
90% of the Guns in Mexico are NOT from the United States.

90% of the Guns in Mexico that are Tracable are from the United States (Most sold by the Mexican Military to the Cartels) 17% of the Guns are actual US Made guns.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/

The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

"These kinds of guns -- the auto versions of these guns -- they are not coming from El Paso," he said. "They are coming from other sources. They are brought in from Guatemala. They are brought in from places like China. They are being diverted from the military. But you don't get these guns from the U.S."

I am not a Fan of Biased reporting that is Agenda Driven.

The Agenda being to Disarm the Citizens of the United States that Legally Obtain weapons and never commit a crime with them.

Preacher
04-15-2009, 04:40 PM
thats the thing. the cartels own the boarder patrol. they own the cops, the judges, they infiltrate the military.

drug money rules. those who try to stop it are slaughtered. (see- youtube... thread)

Which is why I go back to exempting the military from posse-comitatus within a certain mileage of the border.. say, 5 miles of any US, Mexican border. Let the Spec. Forces do some "training" there.

After all, Force Recon, Green Beret's, Navy Seals, and the Air force's SOFs need to keep themselves up to date in live fire situations don't they?

tony hipchest
04-15-2009, 05:31 PM
90% of the Guns in Mexico are NOT from the United States.



I am not a Fan of Biased reporting that is Agenda Driven.

The Agenda being to Disarm the Citizens of the United States that Legally Obtain weapons and never commit a crime with them.

i am not a fan of the lack of reading comprehension and people being driven blind by radical propoganda and rhetoric.

lets try this again...


Federal agents say about 90 percent of the 12,000 pistols and rifles the Mexican authorities recovered from drug dealers last year and asked to be traced came from dealers in the United States, most of them in Texas and Arizona.

:hatsoff:

Crushzilla
04-15-2009, 05:52 PM
90% of the Guns in Mexico are NOT from the United States.

90% of the Guns in Mexico that are Tracable are from the United States (Most sold by the Mexican Military to the Cartels) 17% of the Guns are actual US Made guns.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/

The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

"These kinds of guns -- the auto versions of these guns -- they are not coming from El Paso," he said. "They are coming from other sources. They are brought in from Guatemala. They are brought in from places like China. They are being diverted from the military. But you don't get these guns from the U.S."

I am not a Fan of Biased reporting that is Agenda Driven.

The Agenda being to Disarm the Citizens of the United States that Legally Obtain weapons and never commit a crime with them.

This is from that FoxNews article.

In fact, it's not even close. The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.

What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.

"Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.

So... the 17% statistic is a bit misleading, as well.

xfl2001fan
04-15-2009, 06:16 PM
At the end of the day, is it really our job to take care of the Mexicans? I don't want to sound like a sole-nationalist here...but if the rest of the world is really so upset over America...let's just pull the great majority of our troops back to become our own personalized border patrol. Nobody in or out...

Crushzilla
04-15-2009, 06:22 PM
At the end of the day, is it really our job to take care of the Mexicans? I don't want to sound like a sole-nationalist here...but if the rest of the world is really so upset over America...let's just pull the great majority of our troops back to become our own personalized border patrol. Nobody in or out...

No, I agree.

It is a problem; such drastic enforcement of the border would only make matters worse.

tony hipchest
04-15-2009, 09:50 PM
Which is why I go back to exempting the military from posse-comitatus within a certain mileage of the border.. say, 5 miles of any US, Mexican border. Let the Spec. Forces do some "training" there.

After all, Force Recon, Green Beret's, Navy Seals, and the Air force's SOFs need to keep themselves up to date in live fire situations don't they?
im not exactly sure what youre talking about preacher. not to be flip, but have you ever been to el-paso/juarez? imagine a city of about 2 mil. divided in half by a 15 foot river. maybe st. paul and minneapolis :noidea:

are you suggesting a 10 mile stretch of city (including downtown) running 5 miles deep be turned into a militarized zone for "testing"? the same can be said for san diego/tuijana.

i just went to the NCAA sun bowl in december. it is literally a quarter mile from the poorest region in juarez which happens to be about the poorest region in all of mexico. i looked ath the shantytown and took it in as i was about to watch my pitt panthers play and drink 8 dollar beers.

you do know that fort bliss is probably within 5 miles of juarez? (think patriot missle batteries)

the entire base is being torn down and a completely new one built (at the cost of 2-3 bil)-

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/030208dntexelpaso.3acac1e.html

The base, a 1.12-million-acre spread that's larger than Rhode Island and abuts White Sands in New Mexico, will be the nation's fourth-largest Army installation in population by 2013, only slightly smaller than Fort Hood.

And the area will also benefit from local troops returning home from Iraq, including the recent homecoming of the 4th Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division.
the population going from about 20,000 to 90,000 including spouses and children. this expansion has nothing to do with juarez (although im sure it will act as a deterrent).

still, the base is there to conduct army busines, not INS, dept of homeland security, or boarder patrol business. :noidea: and i still cant see turning downtown elpaso into a battle zone.

Dino 6 Rings
04-16-2009, 11:33 AM
i am not a fan of the lack of reading comprehension and people being driven blind by radical propoganda and rhetoric.

lets try this again...

:hatsoff:

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced — and of those, 90 percent — 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover — were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

:hatsoff:

tony hipchest
04-16-2009, 01:14 PM
In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced — and of those, 90 percent — 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover — were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, :chuckle: 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

:hatsoff:this proves absolutey nothing pertaining to the point or article, other than your reading comprehension is lacking or you are hell bent on muddying the FACTS and offer up a diversion.

we will try this again... FACT IS-

Federal agents say about 90 percent of the 12,000 pistols and rifles the Mexican authorities recovered from drug dealers last year were talking about drug dealers and cartel raids. this isnt about random street crime where a kid robs the corner store for 500 pesos or a man kills someone after a ballroom brawl or a woman shoots her cheating husband. this article is about the INFLUX of guns travelling across the boarder as if its an epidemic.

a trend... a "pattern" has developped.

A review of cases over the last two years show a pattern: the drug cartels hire people in need of cash with no criminal records to buy guns from legal sources

In 2008, the Mexican government seized more than 20,000 weapons from suspected drug dealers. Since Congress lifted the ban on assault rifles in 2004, more and more of the weapons recovered in Mexico have been military-style rifles like the AK-47s or the AR-15, the authorities in both countries say.


Some local law enforcement officials complain that the A.T.F., which has about 2,500 special agents watching 78,000 gun dealers nationwide, is overwhelmed.

anyways good job arguing against the FACTS that the federal agents and ATF are presenting in this article :thumbsup: unless youre calling my source who is also your source a liar. :hunch:

federal agent research and tracking > mexican govt. supplied data. im not saying its wrong just that youre confusing terroristic mexican cartels with the common criminal. apples and oranges. this isnt "colors" or "boys in da hood" style steet crimes and turf wars. LA crips and bloods are childs play compared to whats going on down there and are really the donkeys and worker bee's for these cartels.

hell mexico has just about put all the biker gangs out of business of manufacturing meth, and nobody coulda forseen that happening.

tony hipchest
04-16-2009, 01:18 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-03-31-mexicoguns_N.htm

MEXICO CITY — There is one gun store in Mexico. Only one. And not just anybody can shop here.
The "Directorate for Arms and Munitions Sales," as the store is called, is run by the Mexican army and occupies two rooms in an olive-green, heavily guarded building near the army's headquarters.

Prospective customers need a permit from the army that can take months to get. And once they buy a gun, there are reams of rules: how much ammunition they can buy each month; where they can take the gun; who they can sell it to.

To some shoppers, the irony is clear: Mexico has some of the toughest gun-control laws in the world, yet the country's drug cartels are armed to the teeth with illegal weapons that are smuggled over the border from the United States.


"I would dare say that Mexico has some of the strictest regulations about gun ownership in all the world, and we're right next to a country ... that has some of the easiest ones," said Lt. Col. Raúl Manzano Vélez, director of the military's civilian gun sales. "That creates a huge vacuum between the countries and feeds weapons trafficking."

MACH1
04-16-2009, 03:00 PM
So your saying since Mexico can't police their own country, drug cartels or not. We as Americans should lose our right to own firearms because of what another country can't do?

"I would dare say that Mexico has some of the strictest regulations about gun ownership in all the world, and we're right next to a country ... that has some of the easiest ones," said Lt. Col. Raúl Manzano Vélez, director of the military's civilian gun sales. "That creates a huge vacuum between the countries and feeds weapons trafficking."

Seems that gun control is working out real well for them. Now who in mexico has all the firearms? The law abiding citizen or the criminals?

tony hipchest
04-16-2009, 03:13 PM
We as Americans should lose our right to own firearms

who said this? its just panic and fear mongering and i most certainly didnt say or imply it.

im saying i recognize there is a huge problem and the guns rights lovers are completely oblivious to it or simply dont give a shit.

serious questions here...

what are your thoughts of americans selling military style weaponry to terrorist?

is a terrorist only bad if they kill americans or is terrorism bad across the board?

what happened to the global war on terror?

MACH1
04-16-2009, 03:30 PM
who said this? its just panic and fear mongering and i most certainly didnt say or imply it.

im saying i recognize there is a huge problem and the guns rights lovers are completely oblivious to it or simply dont give a shit.

serious questions here...

what are your thoughts of americans selling military style weaponry to terrorist?

is a terrorist only bad if they kill americans or is terrorism bad across the board?

what happened to the global war on terror?

I'm not trying to fear monger, just a question on where you stood. I could have worded it better.

A terrorist is a terrorist no matter who they try to kill!

A military STYLE weapon is just that, style, not the total functionality of a military firearm(lookalikes or not fully automatic). And I seriously doubt a foreign terrorist is going to walk into the local gun shop and fill out all the paper work and sit back and wait for a background check. Homegrown nut jobs are a different story. But at this point its their right to own a gun just as much as it is ours.

tony hipchest
04-16-2009, 04:15 PM
I'm not trying to fear monger, just a question on where you stood. I could have worded it better.

A terrorist is a terrorist no matter who they try to kill!

A military STYLE weapon is just that, style, not the total functionality of a military firearm(lookalikes or not fully automatic). And I seriously doubt a foreign terrorist is going to walk into the local gun shop and fill out all the paper work and sit back and wait for a background check. Homegrown nut jobs are a different story. But at this point its their right to own a gun just as much as it is ours.no im talking about the glenn beck types and nra groups that are painting the doomsday picture that obama is going to take away everyones guns. The cartels got hundereds of millions to spend. theyre hiring americans to buy the guns for them.

this is whats scary-

Noting there are about 1,500 licensed gun dealers in the Houston area, he added: “You can come to Houston and go to a different gun store every day for several months and never alert any one.”

The federal system for tracking gun sales, crafted over the years to avoid infringements on Second Amendment rights, makes it difficult to quickly spot suspicious trends and to identify people buying for smugglers, law enforcement officials say.

As a result, in some states along the Southwest border where firearms are lightly regulated, gun smugglers can evade detection for months or years. In Texas, New Mexico and Arizona, dealers can sell an unlimited number of rifles to anyone with a driver’s license and a clean criminal record without reporting the sales to the government. i think its time the govt know who these guns are being sold to.

as for the military style weapons. they are military weapons, designed for the military. i mean all you have to do to turn a semi, back to fully auto is take it to a machine shop and have them file down the pin, right? thats whats going on in mexico.

so what would you think of all guns manufactured in the US being fitted with a trackable microchip? I mean the law abiding citezen wouldnt have anything to worry about, right? if you buy and register a gun, the govt already knows you have a gun at your location. :noidea:

Dino 6 Rings
04-16-2009, 04:17 PM
AK47s are not manufactured in the United States. They are made in China and Russia. And the AR-15s are sold directly to the Mexican Government.

What your argument insinuates is that there are truck loads of guns, being run across the border into Mexico, which are bought at Local Gun shops and Gun Shows legally and then sold on the black market to drug cartels.

Does that happen? Sure it does, does it happen at the Volume you suggest?

No.

The majority of guns come in from the Ocean, right into Mexican Ports, and are from other countries that don't care if they arm Mexican Gangs because in the long run, they turn those guns on each other and eventually on Americans.

Dino 6 Rings
04-16-2009, 04:21 PM
no im talking about the glenn beck types and nra groups that are painting the doomsday picture that obama is going to take away everyones guns. The cartels got hundereds of millions to spend. theyre hiring americans to buy the guns for them.


And here we have our difference of opinion. You suggest that the NRA and Beck and groups like that are painting a Doomsday Picture about Obama taking guns away, while you paint a Doomsday Picture of the US Guns in Mexico.

MACH1
04-16-2009, 04:25 PM
no im talking about the glenn beck types and nra groups that are painting the doomsday picture that obama is going to take away everyones guns. The cartels got hundereds of millions to spend. theyre hiring americans to buy the guns for them.

this is whats scary-

i think its time the govt know who these guns are being sold to.

as for the military style weapons. they are military weapons, designed for the military. i mean all you have to do to turn a semi, back to fully auto is take it to a machine shop and have them file down the pin, right? thats whats going on in mexico.

so what would you think of all guns manufactured in the US being fitted with a trackable microchip? I mean the law abiding citezen wouldnt have anything to worry about, right? if you buy and register a gun, the govt already knows you have a gun at your location. :noidea:

Not sure if I like the trackable chip thing, finger print censer maybe. That way only the person who legally owns it can fire it?

Vincent
04-16-2009, 04:38 PM
At the end of the day, is it really our job to take care of the Mexicans? I don't want to sound like a sole-nationalist here...but if the rest of the world is really so upset over America...let's just pull the great majority of our troops back to become our own personalized border patrol. Nobody in or out...

I agree entirely.

But...

The way I hear it from inside DC is that we allow mass illegal "immigration" because much of the money earned here goes back to families in Mexico. It is said that we really shut that down Mexico would explode into revolution that would spill over into the US. That's the excuse for the debacle on our side. Not sure I buy it, but it could splain some things. Ever wonder why NOBODY (NO-@#$%ing-BODY) will step up to fix this? And its bipartisan.

And...

Our most favored trade partner, the Chinese, flood North America with arms and ammo. Shutting down gun traffic from the US is but a drop in the ocean. Not saying don't do it, just pointing out the minimal impact.

And...

ANYTHING that abridges my right (and responsibility) to bear arms I am vehemently in opposition to.

What is at issue here is not what gets sold to whom in the US. Its what crosses the border. Enforce the border and this aspect of the problem goes away.

steelers4life66
04-16-2009, 05:02 PM
90% of the Guns in Mexico are NOT from the United States.

90% of the Guns in Mexico that are Tracable are from the United States (Most sold by the Mexican Military to the Cartels) 17% of the Guns are actual US Made guns.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/

The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

"These kinds of guns -- the auto versions of these guns -- they are not coming from El Paso," he said. "They are coming from other sources. They are brought in from Guatemala. They are brought in from places like China. They are being diverted from the military. But you don't get these guns from the U.S."

I am not a Fan of Biased reporting that is Agenda Driven.

The Agenda being to Disarm the Citizens of the United States that Legally Obtain weapons and never commit a crime with them.

Good post. Thanks for the info. They were putting all the blame on us.

tony hipchest
04-16-2009, 06:06 PM
AK47s are not manufactured in the United States. They are made in China and Russia. And the AR-15s are sold directly to the Mexican Government.

Does that happen? Sure it does, does it happen at the Volume you suggest?

No.

The majority of guns come in from the Ocean, right into Mexican Ports, and are from other countries that don't care if they arm Mexican Gangs because in the long run, they turn those guns on each other and eventually on Americans.
:link:

i know where ak-47's are from. (i dont even know why you brought it up). they are popular worldwide because they are simple, sturdy, easy to maintain, and reliable. you can drop them in swamps and mud and they still work.

and uzis are israeli. now tell me something i dont know.

And here we have our difference of opinion. You suggest that the NRA and Beck and groups like that are painting a Doomsday Picture about Obama taking guns away, while you paint a Doomsday Picture of the US Guns in Mexico.actually we have a difference of facts (even though the only ones you brought to the table came from the same source).

im painting a doomsday picture? more like the ATF and federal agents are. once again reading comprehension fails you. but being that youre on a streak, why end it?

What your argument insinuates is that there are truck loads of guns, being run across the border into Mexico, which are bought at Local Gun shops and Gun Shows legally and then sold on the black market to drug cartels. i see you are gonna just go gbmelblounts route and just completely make shit up. your interperative narrative was lame.

i didnt write the article, youre starting an argument with the lame usage of skewed facts that have nothing to do with the article, and the article descriptively shows EXACTLY how the guns are being smuggled across the boarder. so why would i insinuate "truckloads"?

i didnt suggest the volume. the freaking feds did! what part about this do you not understand? :dang:

anyways it seems you are ignorant to the situation that is actually going on down there and are too close minded about being informed. :hatsoff:

tony hipchest
04-16-2009, 06:30 PM
Not sure if I like the trackable chip thing, finger print censer maybe. That way only the person who legally owns it can fire it?
i like the print sensor idea. but what technology is closer to existing or cheaper? a chip that can be tracked by sattelite or the fingertip reader? :noidea:

im not sure if it would even work but why exactly dont you like the chip idea? (other than essentially inviting big brother inside your gun cabinet)

MACH1
04-16-2009, 06:35 PM
i like the print sensor idea. but what technology is closer to existing or cheaper? a chip that can be tracked by sattelite or the fingertip reader? :noidea:

im not sure if it would even work but why exactly dont you like the chip idea? (other than essentially inviting big brother inside your gun cabinet)

That and they don't need to know where I'm at all the time.
Takes all the fun out of those no tell em spots.:chuckle:

Just thinking... What would the fish cops do with that kind of technology. Might be bad for poachers, but at the same time I don't want one sneaking up on me when I'm hunting either.

Hines0wnz
04-26-2009, 11:57 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-03-31-mexicoguns_N.htm

This article shows that gun control doesnt work in a huge way. No wonder the cartels can take over towns in Mexico, no one else has any guns to defend themselves and the criminals know it.

Hines0wnz
04-27-2009, 12:19 AM
Given the lack of hard data from Mexico, we can't calculate a precise figure for what portion of crime guns have been traced to the U.S. Based on the best evidence we can find so far, we conclude that the 90 percent claim made by the president and others in his administration lacks a basis in solid fact. But we also conclude that the number is at least double what Fox News has reported, based on its reporters' mistaken interpretation of ATF testimony.

Whether the number is 90 percent, or 36 percent, or something else, there's no dispute that thousands of guns are being illegalIy transported into Mexico by way of the United States each year.

factcheck link (http://www.factcheck.org/politics/counting_mexicos_guns.html)