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tony hipchest
04-18-2009, 04:38 PM
i love nba playoffs and this year could be even better and more exciting than last.

i'll definitely be taking in a heavy dose of l. james and d. howard, and be following the spurs pretty closely. i havent seen much of g. oden so i will be watching the trailblazers too.

final 4-

cavs over orlando
lakers over spurs (hoping for a rockets upset over lakers in rd.2)

cavs over lakers in 6. congrats cleveland... you finally have something to celebrate. :thumbsup: enjoy it, because it will never be in football.

Steelman16
04-18-2009, 04:48 PM
Nice to see the Celts lose, even if they were Garnett-less. Rondo did a good job, but I'm glad they lost.

I'm looking forward to the Blazers too - Roy's been my boy since his first year at UW. :thumbsup:

SteelersinCA
04-18-2009, 07:07 PM
You'll be watching Oden on the bench Tony, Kobe will dominate in the Finals and bring the trophy back to where it belongs.

lilyoder6
04-18-2009, 07:53 PM
watching derrick rose explode in his playoff debut in the win over the celtics were nice...

i am liking the trailblazers as well.. got a good young team.. oden just needs to stay healthy...

all in all tho.. the lakers are sick... be fun to watch a kobe-lebron finals.. and the lakers will win b/c
A. kobe is THE best player in the league and lebron is second
B: outside of 23 and 24.. lakers have the better talent

xfl2001fan
04-19-2009, 06:33 PM
A. kobe is THE best player in the league and lebron is second
B: outside of 23 and 24.. lakers have the better talent

Kobe's a better shooter, Lebron is a better scorer. Lebron is (also) more focused this year...but the fact that your "B* statement is true probably has a lot to do with it.

Kobe doesn't do nearly as much to make the Lakers a better team as Lebron does with the Cavaliers.

Fordy
04-19-2009, 06:39 PM
I was hoping the Jazz gave the Lakers a better game..

mcmac
04-19-2009, 06:50 PM
Im a celtics fan but I know we are in trouble since KG not going to play but I have know problem with the Cavs winning the NBA title this year Im a big Lebron J fan.

lilyoder6
04-19-2009, 11:25 PM
Kobe's a better shooter, Lebron is a better scorer. Lebron is (also) more focused this year...but the fact that your "B* statement is true probably has a lot to do with it.

Kobe doesn't do nearly as much to make the Lakers a better team as Lebron does with the Cavaliers.

maybe inside the paint lebron is a better scorer.. but his perimeter shooting still needs to improve... and kobe is a better clutch player

and i do think lebron is focused, but u have to warrant the argument that kobe is just as focused... he needs to prove that he can win a championship w/o shaq

revefsreleets
04-20-2009, 08:43 AM
Look at the stats, and you'll see who the better player is. Kobe is the best pure scorer in the league, but Lebron is a MUCH more complete player. He is probably the strongest player in the NBA, he scores, he rebounds, he assists, and he plays really solid defense now.

Check out those stats, by the way:

Scoring- LeBron 28.4 PG
Kobe 26.8

Assists- LeBron 7.2 PG
Kobe 4.9

Rebounds- LeBron 7.6 PG
Kobe 5.2 PG


Add in the fact that Kobe has peaked, and LeBron just keeps getting better, and there really is no comparison.

lilyoder6
04-20-2009, 09:45 AM
Look at the stats, and you'll see who the better player is. Kobe is the best pure scorer in the league, but Lebron is a MUCH more complete player. He is probably the strongest player in the NBA, he scores, he rebounds, he assists, and he plays really solid defense now.

Check out those stats, by the way:

Scoring- LeBron 28.4 PG
Kobe 26.8

Assists- LeBron 7.2 PG
Kobe 4.9

Rebounds- LeBron 7.6 PG
Kobe 5.2 PG


Add in the fact that Kobe has peaked, and LeBron just keeps getting better, and there really is no comparison.

u must be high...
kobe did just win the mvp last yr..

kobe is THE BEST on ball defender
kobe is a better ft shooter... by 76%
lebron prob gets more boards b/c he a foward and his bigs are bitches, kobe has 2 7ft'ers that attack the board real good.. and u could even throw in odom

lilyoder6
04-20-2009, 09:49 AM
u can argue all u want bout how good lebron is... which is by the way.. but kobe is better.. plain and simple...

revefsreleets
04-20-2009, 10:36 AM
And LJ will be this years MVP.

lilyoder6
04-20-2009, 10:46 AM
And LJ will be this years MVP.

the sad thing.. is i think that D-Wade is playing out of his mind this past yr.. but he won't be able to pass kobe and LJ...

i as well do think lebron will win the mvp this yr.. but that still don't change the fact kobe is still better

revefsreleets
04-20-2009, 11:06 AM
If you could ask every GM in the NBA which player they'd rather take RIGHT NOW, and all but one (Lakers) would say LeBron.

SteelersinCA
04-20-2009, 02:06 PM
I don't think it's a fair comparison. LBJ HAS TO do more, the rest of the players on that team are absolute garbage. Kobe can dish the ball all around and people will score, see yesterday's game.

Going by MVP definition, LBJ is the most valuable player to his team, but that doesn't mean he is the best player. The award is MVP not best player.

I don't think it would be as lopsided as you believe with the query to the GMs.

lilyoder6
04-20-2009, 02:51 PM
I don't think it's a fair comparison. LBJ HAS TO do more, the rest of the players on that team are absolute garbage. Kobe can dish the ball all around and people will score, see yesterday's game.

Going by MVP definition, LBJ is the most valuable player to his team, but that doesn't mean he is the best player. The award is MVP not best player.

I don't think it would be as lopsided as you believe with the query to the GMs.

i don't think so either.. i think it will be 50-50 on who they who take.. and ur analysis of the 2 teams is right

tony hipchest
04-20-2009, 03:15 PM
If you could ask every GM in the NBA which player they'd rather take RIGHT NOW, and all but one (Lakers) would say LeBron.

actually they did ask phil jackson and he said d. howard. then of course the takling heads had to dissect this comment and speculate whether zenmaster phil was just trying to get in labrons head. :confused:

revefsreleets
04-21-2009, 07:44 AM
This all rminds me of when LJ was drafted...about 60% of the people on the board I was on said he'd be a bust. He's been underappreciated from the start. His first ever game he scored 25, had 9 assists, 6 boards and 4 steals. He also had to play out of position for nearly 2 years because the Cavs had no PG.

I wouldn't say LBJ has no one around him. Mo Williams is a great guard. Z is one of the best scoring/shooting centers in the game. They are pretty deep. But, yeah, he definitely doesn't thave the supporting cast that other players around him do.

As far as who GM's would take, only an idiot would take a 30 year old in his peak versus a 24 year old who's already as good or better and who is also STILL IMPROVING EVERY YEAR.

I won't argue LBJ vs Kobe anymore...no point in it. Just like everything, these things sort them out over time...

RoethlisBURGHer
04-21-2009, 10:26 PM
Wait, the rest of the Cavs are garbage?

In 2007, that would be true outside of Z and Gibson.

Mo Williams is one of the best point guards in the NBA. The addition of him to the team has been absolutely huge.

Z is a good center. He's not physical like a Howard or Shaq, but you be physical when your feet is more pins, screws, and rods than bone.

Delonte West is a good ball player. He gives the team a third ball handler to go with James and Williams.

Varejao is very underrated. He's a gritty player who isn't afraid to take a charge. He's also become an efficient scorer in the paint.

tony hipchest
04-21-2009, 10:35 PM
i wont take nothing away from Anal Raper. he is a great player and has the hardware to prove it. he is clutch and when he is "on" (which is often) there is no stopping him.

HOWEVA... labron is one of the most explosive and fun players to watch in a LOOONG time.

ive seen many players called the next MJ from h. minor (the unlv dude?), to stackhouse, to kobe etc....

ive seen only 1 player perform like the "next". and that is LB.

i'll admit that i am biassed because ive never been a fan of the silver spoon atheletes such as kobe, jeter, brady, j. gordon, and to a certain degree t. woods.

you give inherently great talent, the best (or cheatingest) coaches/supporting teammates / equipment/ training, and of course they are going to succeed.

what i appreciate is the atheletes who are self made and succeed w/o those things.

MJ and shaq made phil jackson. not vice versa.

kobe is a great talent and a great beneficiary.

but instead of this thread turning into a tired manning vs. brady thread (or a-rod vs. jeter, or gordon vs. earnhardt sr.) :yawn: we can actually discuss actual basketball games bein played in the '09 nba playoffs.

oh, and FWIW i dont think kobe actually committed rape (99% sure the anal sex was consentual) and labron destroyed the pistons in game 2 = "a man amongst boys".

and as a fan of the Western Conference and the non-existant Supersonics, i am being fairly objective here.

MACH1
04-21-2009, 11:39 PM
This all rminds me of when LJ was drafted...about 60% of the people on the board I was on said he'd be a bust. He's been underappreciated from the start. His first ever game he scored 25, had 9 assists, 6 boards and 4 steals. He also had to play out of position for nearly 2 years because the Cavs had no PG.

I wouldn't say LBJ has no one around him. Mo Williams is a great guard. Z is one of the best scoring/shooting centers in the game. They are pretty deep. But, yeah, he definitely doesn't thave the supporting cast that other players around him do.

As far as who GM's would take, only an idiot would take a 30 year old in his peak versus a 24 year old who's already as good or better and who is also STILL IMPROVING EVERY YEAR.

I won't argue LBJ vs Kobe anymore...no point in it. Just like everything, these things sort them out over time...

All I have to say is when was the last time LBJ scored 82 points in a game?

Lakers are killing the Jizz again.

xfl2001fan
04-22-2009, 06:45 AM
All I have to say is when was the last time LBJ scored 82 points in a game?

Lakers are killing the Jizz again.

How many Triple Doubles does Kobe have in his career?

LBJ/Kobe play two different positions in two different offenses. How may times have we heard Kobe was a ball-hog/selfish player during his career? How many times have we heard about LBJ's Selfishlessness? Oh yeah, one's a great team player/scroer, the other is a great shooter. You decide.

Back to the playoffs that are actually happening (Kobe vs King should happen in the finals...but we're not there yet.)

I walked away from the third quarter of the Cavs game feeling like the game was closer than the score indicated...and then the starters sat...and it becamse that reality. But still, 77-50 after three quarters is pretty much a clinic in how to play basketball if you look at it from the Cavs perspective.

Houston-Portland matchup is a good thing for the Lakers, because those two teams will absolutely kill each other trying to win...and by the time one of them actually wins and has to play LA, they'll be hurting bad. To bad for D-Mutumbo, 18 years in the NBA, that's not how he should have gone out.

Now that Garnett and Powe are done, so are the Celtics. They just don't have enough talented Bigs left to contend with Orlando...or for that matter, Chicago.

Atlanta is one of those teams that I think is better than their record would indicate...and judging by how they're playing, they could pose problems for the Cavs.

San Antonio is all but done. Denver is playing decent, but I don't know that they can get out of the West, even if LA somehow lost before the WCF.

If I've left anyone out, it's because I haven't been impressed by them, or haven't had a chance to watch their games.

MACH1
04-22-2009, 08:17 AM
How many Triple Doubles does Kobe have in his career?

Kobe has three rings, an mvp, and not only is he a great shooter he has become a great team player. He is unstoppable when he decides to take over a game, lebron not so much.

lilyoder6
04-22-2009, 08:57 AM
when they asked lebron who was his top 5 athletes growing up.. he said he was 1 of them.. someone is full of himself...

mo is good.. not great.. if he was great u would of heard his name b4 he went to the cavs...

and kobe not a great team player?? who u think lead the olympic team this past summer.. KOBE, who evryone looked up too.. KOBE.... who taught the other players how to play better defense,, KOBE

again.. they do play different offenses and have different personel.. that is y stats aren't evrything...

revefsreleets
04-22-2009, 09:16 AM
That's interesting. Almost everything I'VE read said that the Olympic team was LeBron's team. That he was the leader on and off the floor.
As usual, I don't just spray bullshit out there based on my opinions, I'll bring some juice with me. How's this?

http://www.nba.com/usabasketball/james_20080730.html
James was a not-so commanding leader in 2006 before Bryant and Kidd joined the team, and deferred to them somewhat last year, but as they prepare for the 2008 Olympics, he has clearly taken the reigns as an informal captain of the squad (no formal captain will be named).
"He's talking a lot more," said Chris Bosh, who played on the '06 team. "He's been very active and very vocal."
As can be seen in this video, Krzyzewski wants LeBron to lead


But, as I said, I'm done with this one...think whatever you want.

xfl2001fan
04-22-2009, 09:34 AM
Kobe has three rings, Say thank you Shaq. Because without him, Kobe doesn't get any of those.
an mvp, More of a life-time achievement award than one particular season. He had been passed over on seasons when he'd played better. Here in a few days, Lebron will have matched Kobe in that department anyways.
and not only is he a great shooter he has become a great team player. He is unstoppable when he decides to take over a game, lebron not so much. Lebron is not unstoppable when he decides to take over a game? How so? He may not ever score 82 points, but it that will be from lack of trying to score. Kobe is becoming a good team player, Lebron is a great team player. There's a huge difference. Kobe has always had (and still has) a better supporting cast than Lebron.

Lebron is a far better team player than Kobe could dream of. A few years ago, it was almost considered a Fault of Lebrons that he gave his teammates so many opportunities to succeed.

when they asked lebron who was his top 5 athletes growing up.. he said he was 1 of them.. someone is full of himself...

mo is good.. not great.. if he was great u would of heard his name b4 he went to the cavs...

and kobe not a great team player?? who u think lead the olympic team this past summer.. KOBE, who evryone looked up too.. KOBE.... who taught the other players how to play better defense,, KOBE

again.. they do play different offenses and have different personel.. that is y stats aren't evrything...

Why would he be full of himself? Maybe he's being honest. Look at what he does on the floor w/ and w/o the ball. He's faster than most of the Guards, stronger than most of the forwards, can start at 4 positions on the floor...and could probably play some center (though not as effectively). He is a beast as an athlete.

How many other players could do that in the history of the NBA...or for that matter, across all of sports? Especially when you consider how much better trained/prepared athletes are today compared to decades ago.

tony hipchest
04-22-2009, 10:05 AM
Houston-Portland matchup is a good thing for the Lakers, because those two teams will absolutely kill each other trying to win...and by the time one of them actually wins and has to play LA, they'll be hurting bad. To bad for D-Mutumbo, 18 years in the NBA, that's not how he should have gone out.

.

agreed. i only caught the highlights but that looked like it was the game of the week. sucks for mutombo to shred his knee. ive always been a fan, regardles of which team he played for. he's one of the good guys. to play basketball AND do the voice of cookie monster for sesame street for so many years is really impressive. he's all about the kids.

dont be so quick to write off san antonio. they are slipping a bit and getting long in the tooth, but they are about as battle tested as it gets.

dwight howard was named defensive mvp yesterday. youngest man to ever win it. orlando/cavs will be one hell of a series.

oh, and kobe and labron should just square off in a dunk and skills contest and settle this debate once and for all. id pay to see it.

xfl2001fan
04-22-2009, 05:08 PM
agreed. i only caught the highlights but that looked like it was the game of the week. sucks for mutombo to shred his knee. ive always been a fan, regardles of which team he played for. he's one of the good guys. to play basketball AND do the voice of cookie monster for sesame street for so many years is really impressive. he's all about the kids.

dont be so quick to write off san antonio. they are slipping a bit and getting long in the tooth, but they are about as battle tested as it gets.

dwight howard was named defensive mvp yesterday. youngest man to ever win it. orlando/cavs will be one hell of a series.

oh, and kobe and labron should just square off in a dunk and skills contest and settle this debate once and for all. id pay to see it.

Where did you see that Mutombo does the voice of cookie monster? He sounds like him, but the voice of Cookie Monster is actually Frank Oz and/or David Rudman. (They've shared duties.)

Regardless, Mr. Finger Wag is about as class a person as you'll ever hear about and a true hero amongst the sports figures. The NBA is a much lesser place without his presence there.

The only reason why I write off San Antonio is because Timmy and Ginobli are hurt. I didn't mean to infer that they were never going to be a good team again, but I think they can be discounted from this season's playoffs.

I can live with Dwight Howard being the defensive MVP. He's easily the best defender on Orlando...and his presence in the middle helps change how teams attack them. Orlando is not a team you want to get into a jump-shooting contest with...and he helps force that.

I, for one, am not looking forward to a Cavs/Orlando series...because of all the teams in the East, IMO they are the team that is our worst possible matchup. I think we have a better chance at a healthy Boston team than we do Orlando. As a basketball fan though...that is probably the best scenario in the Eastern Finals this season. Two teams with young and exceptionally talented players leading their team...and both guys give the impression of being fun-loving.

lilyoder6
04-22-2009, 05:09 PM
That's interesting. Almost everything I'VE read said that the Olympic team was LeBron's team. That he was the leader on and off the floor.
As usual, I don't just spray bullshit out there based on my opinions, I'll bring some juice with me. How's this?

http://www.nba.com/usabasketball/james_20080730.html
James was a not-so commanding leader in 2006 before Bryant and Kidd joined the team, and deferred to them somewhat last year, but as they prepare for the 2008 Olympics, he has clearly taken the reigns as an informal captain of the squad (no formal captain will be named).
"He's talking a lot more," said Chris Bosh, who played on the '06 team. "He's been very active and very vocal."
As can be seen in this video, Krzyzewski wants LeBron to lead


But, as I said, I'm done with this one...think whatever you want.


u read what u want to read...

and that article.. just said that lebron was a leader at a young age... but it also said that jason kidd and kobe were leaders...

lilyoder6
04-22-2009, 05:20 PM
just like kobe bryant learned from micheal jordan,
lebron is learning from kobe ..
kobe is the teacher and lebron is the student .
simple as that...




lebron will be the best player in the league 1 day, but as of right now kobe is the best... and i'm expecting lebron to win the mvp this yr.. but the fact still remains that kobe is still the better player...


and when the game is on the line, u take ur lebron and i'll take my kobe and the championship

tony hipchest
04-22-2009, 05:34 PM
Where did you see that Mutombo does the voice of cookie monster? He sounds like him, but the voice of Cookie Monster is actually Frank Oz and/or David Rudman. (They've shared duties.)

.

:laughing:................:wink02:

as long as parker and duncan can take the court, they can always pull out a miracle. not likely w/o manu, BUT i wont write them off for this season quite yet.

lilyoder6
04-22-2009, 06:38 PM
i think orlando needs to get there head out of there asses and start playing..

and be interesting 2 see what d-wade can do and how long he can cry the team

xfl2001fan
04-23-2009, 06:22 AM
:laughing:................:wink02:

as long as parker and duncan can take the court, they can always pull out a miracle. not likely w/o manu, BUT i wont write them off for this season quite yet.

If the Spurs were in the East, I might agree with that assessment. Unfortunately, even in a "down year", the West is still brutal. I think that if Duncan were 100%, I'd be less inclined to write them off. From what I've seen though, he's just not there right now...and unfortunately, there really isn't time to rest him.

and when the game is on the line, u take ur lebron and i'll take my kobe and the championship

Kobe has the better supporting cast...always has. However, since Shaq left, he has yet to win a ring. At 24 years old, Kobe isn't in Lebron's league at 24.

revefsreleets
04-23-2009, 07:59 AM
Hmmmm....interesting developments...

LBJ finished second for Defensive Player of the Year. D Wade 3rd. Howard won. Where is Kobe?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090421/sp_nm/us_nba_howard_1

As far as being the leader of the Olympic team, pretty much all the players acknowledged it LeBron, as well as Coach K...but, Hell, what do they know? A couple kids here say that the REAL leader was Kobe, so....I guess we should disregard this: "he has clearly taken the reigns as an informal captain of the squad (no formal captain will be named)."


That's pretty funny, though..."Read what you want to read". I will. I'll continue to read articles that have quotes from his fellow players and his coaches. I'll continue to cite sources. I'll continue to cite stats and facts.

MACH1
04-23-2009, 08:15 AM
u read what u want to read...

and that article.. just said that lebron was a leader at a young age... but it also said that jason kidd and kobe were leaders...

Its all homer talk from a browns fan.
:flap:

xfl2001fan
04-23-2009, 09:21 AM
Its all homer talk from a browns fan.
:flap:

Rev is a Browns fan? Because that's who lilyoder was talking to in that conversation. I can't wait to see his response to you saying that.

Rev: I'll be the first to support your indoctrination into the Browns Fanhood Family!
*************************
Regardless, Kobe got props for stepping up as a defensive player (first and foremost), but (as Revs stated) the players felt like Lebron was taking charge as if he were the Captain.

On the Cavs, Lebron is the Captain, but when Z talks, the other players still listen (to include James) because of his time on the team/in the league. Of course, that will apply to Kidd and (to a lesser extent) Kobe...based on the fact that they'd been in the league longer than many of the other players on our Olympic team.

lilyoder6
04-23-2009, 09:35 AM
Kobe has the better supporting cast...always has. However, since Shaq left, he has yet to win a ring. At 24 years old, Kobe isn't in Lebron's league at 24.

i don't think u can compare the two... the game is totally different than when kobe came into the league and when lebron came into the league...

and i wasn't talking bout supporting cast... i said when the game is on the line... rev can have lebron and i'll take kobe and the championship.... kobe is clutch and will win the game... lebron is 50-50 on winning the game

lilyoder6
04-23-2009, 09:43 AM
Hmmmm....interesting developments...

LBJ finished second for Defensive Player of the Year. D Wade 3rd. Howard won. Where is Kobe?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090421/sp_nm/us_nba_howard_1

As far as being the leader of the Olympic team, pretty much all the players acknowledged it LeBron, as well as Coach K...but, Hell, what do they know? A couple kids here say that the REAL leader was Kobe, so....I guess we should disregard this: "he has clearly taken the reigns as an informal captain of the squad (no formal captain will be named)."


That's pretty funny, though..."Read what you want to read". I will. I'll continue to read articles that have quotes from his fellow players and his coaches. I'll continue to cite sources. I'll continue to cite stats and facts.

When asked about his team's leaders on Tuesday, Coach Mike Krzyzewski mentioned the two obvious ones, Jason Kidd and Kobe Bryant,

and LEBRON WAS A A A A A Captain.. that is what is was saying.. SO WAS KOBE AND KIDD... i mean shit.. there are more than 1 captain on a team... but if u would of watched any of the shows of the redeam team.. they say kobe is the one and then lebron...

and U Can ask anyone in the league, player, coach, who the best on ball defender is... and they will say kobe...


have u ever listen to a lebron interview??? he knows that he is one of the best.. but he also acknoledges that kobe is better...

MACH1
04-23-2009, 09:47 AM
Rev is a Browns fan? Because that's who lilyoder was talking to in that conversation. I can't wait to see his response to you saying that.

Rev: I'll be the first to support your indoctrination into the Browns Fanhood Family!
*************************
Regardless, Kobe got props for stepping up as a defensive player (first and foremost), but (as Revs stated) the players felt like Lebron was taking charge as if he were the Captain.

On the Cavs, Lebron is the Captain, but when Z talks, the other players still listen (to include James) because of his time on the team/in the league. Of course, that will apply to Kidd and (to a lesser extent) Kobe...based on the fact that they'd been in the league longer than many of the other players on our Olympic team.

I was talking about you, homer.

How's that for your answer. :wink02:

Kobe has the better supporting cast...always has.

He hasn't always had a supporting cast. After the team break up with shaq, who played on those teams for 2-3 tears after? Answer nobody. I don't think anyone is left from those teams cept for Walton and possibly Odem.

Kobe isn't in Lebron's league at 24

So your telling me that LJ is a one man team and can do it ALL by himself. After all he has no supporting cast, right.

xfl2001fan
04-23-2009, 09:59 AM
I was talking about you, homer.

How's that for your answer. :wink02:But, the comment you quoted wasn't a conversation to me. That conversation piece had nothing to do with me at all. So, it makes no freaking sense to use that.



He hasn't always had a supporting cast. After the team break up with shaq, who played on those teams for 2-3 tears after? Answer nobody. I don't think anyone is left from those teams cept for Walton and possibly Odem.

What did LA do during those years when there was nobody but Kobe? How'd they play?

So your telling me that LJ is a one man team and can do it ALL by himself. After all he has no supporting cast, right.

I don't recall saying he has no supporting cast, only that Kobe's is better. Lebron has been doing more with less...and I believe that if you were to trade Kobe for Lebron...the Cavs would have been (and still would be) worse than they are...and the Lakers would see a significant improvement.

One of the biggest issues with Kobe isn't talent, but "Want To". When he "wants to" play D, he can really lock a guy down...when he "wants to" take over a game, you'd be hard pressed to find a better shooter. Teams respond as their leader...which is why the Lakers have had some games just fall apart on them defensively. They have the talent to be the absolute best in the league across the board (offensively, defensively)...but their desire, work ethic and (overall) their "want to" is not consistent.

Lebron doesn't have that "want to" issue. His team has responded. We may not be as talented as the lakers, but we make up for it with desire and real "team" work.

I wonder if some of Kobe's desire issues stem from the fact that he's already played well over 1000 games to this point in his career.

lilyoder6
04-23-2009, 11:28 AM
and I believe that if you were to trade Kobe for Lebron...the Cavs would have been (and still would be) worse than they are...and the Lakers would see a significant improvement.



ur not going to know that for sure... BUT

to say kobe on the cavs and them being worse still???

umm kobe has been there and done that.. like mach1 said

kobe was avg 35.1 and 31.6 ppg in the 2 seasons i know he HAD no one on the team that played good ball

and for ur ? about what kobe did when he had no 1 on the team...

he made he playoffs 2 out of 3 times...

revefsreleets
04-23-2009, 12:02 PM
James single-handedly took the Cavs to the finals 2 years ago.

xfl2001fan
04-23-2009, 12:19 PM
This post was off-topic from the OP.

I'll try to keep this thread about the CURRENT Playoffs, matchups, etc...

For a Kobe Vs Lebron, see:

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=593920#post593920

SteelersinCA
04-23-2009, 03:01 PM
If you could ask every GM in the NBA which player they'd rather take RIGHT NOW, and all but one (Lakers) would say LeBron.

Sorry Rev, wrong again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2009-02-14-kobe-vs-lebron_N.htm

It is a shame that teh 2 best don't play each other more often though.

xfl2001fan
04-23-2009, 03:28 PM
Right now...as opposed to an article "posted" on 14 Feb...which means that the survey had to have taken place (at the latest) in January...

If you're going to build a team, you build it around Lebron or Dwight. You add a Kobe because he'll be good for a couple of year.

SteelersinCA
04-23-2009, 03:30 PM
Right now...as opposed to an article "posted" on 14 Feb...which means that the survey had to have taken place (at the latest) in January...

If you're going to build a team, you build it around Lebron or Dwight. You add a Kobe because he'll be good for a couple of year.

You really think LeBron or Kobe has significantly gotten better or worse since January?

He said Right NOW, not starting a franchise right now. Do you think if you had to pick a player you wouldn't take the player you thought to be the best? Besides he said all would take Lebron, clearly not the case.

xfl2001fan
04-23-2009, 04:47 PM
You really think LeBron or Kobe has significantly gotten better or worse since January?

He said Right NOW, not starting a franchise right now. Do you think if you had to pick a player you wouldn't take the player you thought to be the best? Besides he said all would take Lebron, clearly not the case.

You're right, I retract my previous statement. (Well, I won't change it, but you get the idea.)

SteelersinCA
04-23-2009, 05:44 PM
You're right, I retract my previous statement. (Well, I won't change it, but you get the idea.)

We're on the same page, just different sides of it! :drink:

lilyoder6
04-24-2009, 01:35 AM
the spurs and mavs series is getting very interested...

i didn;t think the mavs had that much left in the tank..

but i guess missing manu is rly big

xfl2001fan
04-24-2009, 07:10 AM
the spurs and mavs series is getting very interested...

i didn;t think the mavs had that much left in the tank..

but i guess missing manu is rly big

Between Manu out and Timmy being hurt...the Spurs really don't have much of a chance, even against the Mavs. The Spurs are veteran/gritty enough to make nearly any matchup interesting...but I just think there's too much missing. Which sucks, because I really enjoy the way that they play.

revefsreleets
04-24-2009, 07:58 AM
Sorry Rev, wrong again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2009-02-14-kobe-vs-lebron_N.htm

It is a shame that teh 2 best don't play each other more often though.

Sorry, CA, as usual, you've twisted this all up due to your overall inability to understand complex concepts. Let me simplify:

The article asked "Who is better".

I asked "Which player would you take".

I realize you are...um...challeneged, but the question answers itself. If you had to choose between two players who are (even the article basically called it a tie) essentially even, any GM worth his salt would take the youger player WHO IS STILL IMPROVING.

We know what Kobe is. He's peaked or is peaking. Nobody has a clue how good James will end up being.

So, sorry, once again, you are wrong.

Keep trying kid!

lilyoder6
04-24-2009, 08:25 AM
Between Manu out and Timmy being hurt...the Spurs really don't have much of a chance, even against the Mavs. The Spurs are veteran/gritty enough to make nearly any matchup interesting...but I just think there's too much missing. Which sucks, because I really enjoy the way that they play.

the spurs are just sad the pheonix suns are not in the playoffs so they can take them out again... :sofunny:

lilyoder6
04-24-2009, 08:30 AM
I asked "Which player would you take".

I realize you are...um...challeneged, but the question answers itself. If you had to choose between two players who are (even the article basically called it a tie) essentially even, any GM worth his salt would take the youger player WHO IS STILL IMPROVING.

We know what Kobe is. He's peaked or is peaking. Nobody has a clue how good James will end up being.


see that ? about which player a gm would take is a loaded ?
just like how ppl say u can't compare the 2 careers of kobe and lebron b/c kobe has bout 8 yrs on him... and what not..

i think it's unfair 2 choose a player if ur basing on age...

i think ppl should add a limit on how many yrs u can have the person, both young and both in there prime....

it just sucks that these two are at the different end of their careers.. the nba could of rly used these rivalry for the next 5-10 yrs

SteelersinCA
04-24-2009, 09:04 AM
I realize you are...um...challeneged

At least spell it right if you are going to resort to insults!! :rofl:

If you are building a franchise you take the younger player, if you jsut want to win right now you take the best. Fair enough, Jr.?

tony hipchest
04-24-2009, 09:49 AM
Between Manu out and Timmy being hurt...the Spurs really don't have much of a chance, even against the Mavs. The Spurs are veteran/gritty enough to make nearly any matchup interesting...but I just think there's too much missing. Which sucks, because I really enjoy the way that they play.theyre almost dry and boring, but so technically sound. i love how they run plays exactly how its drawn up by the coach.

which is wierd cause i like my BB more phrenetic, explosive and playground style.

but yeah, they got spanked bad last night. hate to say or see it, but they may not recover in this series.

revefsreleets
04-24-2009, 09:55 AM
Interesting that several of the GM's abstained. Too close to call?

I take James if I want to win championships for the next 10 years. I take James if I want to win right now as well. IMO more complete player, and, again, the numbers bear that out...

But this is silly and objective...there is no right answer, but I sure hope they do get to square off in the Finals...

xfl2001fan
04-24-2009, 09:59 AM
see that ? about which player a gm would take is a loaded ?
just like how ppl say u can't compare the 2 careers of kobe and lebron b/c kobe has bout 8 yrs on him... and what not..

i think it's unfair 2 choose a player if ur basing on age...

i think ppl should add a limit on how many yrs u can have the person, both young and both in there prime....

it just sucks that these two are at the different end of their careers.. the nba could of rly used these rivalry for the next 5-10 yrs

But when you make these comparisons...you have three "logical" options. You can say the
1 - "as is"
2 - go with their "Prime."
3 - From the outset

1 -" As is" makes a reference to comparing a player either at/near his peak...or a guy who has yet to reach it...unfair

2 - Lebron hasn't hit his Prime, unfair.

3 - If you take them from the get go, it's hard core Lebron, no questions asked...because looking at Kobe's first years, he couldn't even start. Even if you compare his first year as a starter and go from there, it still doesn't compare.

It's hard to say that it's unfair, because Kobe wasn't ready to play in the NBA from day 1...whereas Lebron was.

Even when Kobe finally was ready to be a full-time NBA starter (season 3?)...he still couldn't match what Lebron was doing his Rookie season...let alone match what Lebron was doing in his third season.

The only time the comparative talent level for teammates was remotely even with Kobe/Lebron...Lebron led his team to the Eastern Finals (and even the Championship) whereas Kobe lost to the Suns in the first round.

So call "unfair" all you want, but you aren't exactly playing "fair" either.

xfl2001fan
04-24-2009, 10:03 AM
theyre almost dry and boring, but so technically sound. i love how they run plays exactly how its drawn up by the coach.

which is wierd cause i like my BB more phrenetic, explosive and playground style.

but yeah, they got spanked bad last night. hate to say or see it, but they may not recover in this series.

I enjoy their technicality far more than the chaoticicsm most teams employ. They have their star players...and yet stick with the fundamentals to get it right. I want my "professional" athletes to know how to play and execute fundamentally sound basketball (or any sport for that matter). At the end of the day, when those skills erode that you needed to excel in the "explosive playground style" of basketball (speed and agility primarily) you're left with your fundamentals and veteran savvy....which is why the Spurs have been so consistently good for so long.

lilyoder6
04-24-2009, 01:02 PM
But when you make these comparisons...you have three "logical" options. You can say the
1 - "as is"
2 - go with their "Prime."
3 - From the outset

1 -" As is" makes a reference to comparing a player either at/near his peak...or a guy who has yet to reach it...unfair

2 - Lebron hasn't hit his Prime, unfair.

3 - If you take them from the get go, it's hard core Lebron, no questions asked...because looking at Kobe's first years, he couldn't even start. Even if you compare his first year as a starter and go from there, it still doesn't compare.

It's hard to say that it's unfair, because Kobe wasn't ready to play in the NBA from day 1...whereas Lebron was.

Even when Kobe finally was ready to be a full-time NBA starter (season 3?)...he still couldn't match what Lebron was doing his Rookie season...let alone match what Lebron was doing in his third season.

The only time the comparative talent level for teammates was remotely even with Kobe/Lebron...Lebron led his team to the Eastern Finals (and even the Championship) whereas Kobe lost to the Suns in the first round.

So call "unfair" all you want, but you aren't exactly playing "fair" either.


i posted a artcile in the lebron vs kobe thread.. it's a good read.. and it shows that kobe was off to a better start


and lebron was drafted to a shitty shitty team that had no 1.. so it's easy 2 start from day 1
kobe was traded to the lakers who had 2 great guards in play when kobe was there... thats hard to break the starting lineup

xfl2001fan
04-24-2009, 01:08 PM
i posted a artcile in the lebron vs kobe thread.. it's a good read.. and it shows that kobe was off to a better start


and lebron was drafted to a shitty shitty team that had no 1.. so it's easy 2 start from day 1
kobe was traded to the lakers who had 2 great guards in play when kobe was there... thats hard to break the starting lineup

No, Kobe wasn't off to a better start, Shaq got them rings. When you are drafted out of HS, the expectation is you can play. Otherwise, why wouldn't you go to college. Kobe's first year as a starter still doesn't compare to James rookie season, What "Great" Guards did the Lakers have again?

**********EDIT**********ADDITION**********

Let's keep this thread where it belongs...if you're going to answer this, please do so in the Kobe vs Lebron thread where it does belong. I know how the conversation slid into where it's at...but I'd like to keep that stuff over there...and current playoff talk here.

xfl2001fan
04-24-2009, 02:06 PM
It will be interesting to see how fired up the Cavs are tonight, especially with the Lakers losing in Utah.

Let the road to 16 continue!

SteelersinCA
04-24-2009, 04:18 PM
Interesting that several of the GM's abstained. Too close to call?

I take James if I want to win championships for the next 10 years. I take James if I want to win right now as well. IMO more complete player, and, again, the numbers bear that out...

But this is silly and objective...there is no right answer, but I sure hope they do get to square off in the Finals...

Hey you made a reasonable post, I like it Rev!!! :applaudit:

Several did abstain but 12-7 said Kobe was better. Depending on how you look at your question (I think it's fair to say the context of this thread turned into "who is better" at the time of your "ask a GM right now" query, which led me to post the article. Had the context been "who would you rather build a team around" the article and the initial question posed by you would be entirely irrelevant. That would be like saying in 1999 who would you pick Jordan on Kobe.

It is, however, apparent that the GMs would not unanimously (save 1) pick Lebron RIGHT NOW as you thought, fair enough?

SteelersinCA
04-24-2009, 04:19 PM
It will be interesting to see how fired up the Cavs are tonight, especially with the Lakers losing in Utah.

Let the road to 16 continue!

As a Lakers fan I hope the Cavs are concerned about the Lakers losing to Utah, the more distractions and less focused they are the better.

If I were you, I'd be hoping they didn't care.

xfl2001fan
04-24-2009, 04:37 PM
As a Lakers fan I hope the Cavs are concerned about the Lakers losing to Utah, the more distractions and less focused they are the better.

If I were you, I'd be hoping they didn't care.

That's funny, because Magic Johnson said in a recent interview that he paid very close attention to what the Celtics were doing in the playoffs. If they won big, he wanted to win big, if they lost, he wanted to jump ahead hard. If LA lost and Boston won, it was all about working that much harder to make up the "lost" ground.

I agree with that sentiment.

This is the perfect time to get ahead of the Lakers. Pound the Pistons into submission, get your rest one...and prepare for the next opponent. Knowing that LA has to play (at least) 2 more games against a very physical Utah team is a great thing! Try to get into the Lakers head that when/if we do meet in the finals, that we will be the better rested team.

SteelersinCA
04-24-2009, 04:55 PM
That's funny, because Magic Johnson said in a recent interview that he paid very close attention to what the Celtics were doing in the playoffs. If they won big, he wanted to win big, if they lost, he wanted to jump ahead hard. If LA lost and Boston won, it was all about working that much harder to make up the "lost" ground.

I agree with that sentiment.

This is the perfect time to get ahead of the Lakers. Pound the Pistons into submission, get your rest one...and prepare for the next opponent. Knowing that LA has to play (at least) 2 more games against a very physical Utah team is a great thing! Try to get into the Lakers head that when/if we do meet in the finals, that we will be the better rested team.

Hey if you want to take advice from Magic, the man who had HIV then was magically cured, be my guest :flap:

MACH1
04-24-2009, 05:03 PM
That's funny, because Magic Johnson said in a recent interview that he paid very close attention to what the Celtics were doing in the playoffs. If they won big, he wanted to win big, if they lost, he wanted to jump ahead hard. If LA lost and Boston won, it was all about working that much harder to make up the "lost" ground.

I agree with that sentiment.

This is the perfect time to get ahead of the Lakers. Pound the Pistons into submission, get your rest one...and prepare for the next opponent. Knowing that LA has to play (at least) 2 more games against a very physical Utah team is a great thing! Try to get into the Lakers head that when/if we do meet in the finals, that we will be the better rested team.

Maybe the loss to utah will get them to pull their heads out and start focusing on the games. Its like they think they can turn it on and off at will. Don't get a lead and put it on cruise control. :banging:

xfl2001fan
04-24-2009, 05:14 PM
Maybe the loss to utah will get them to pull their heads out and start focusing on the games. Its like they think they can turn it on and off at will. Don't get a lead and put it on cruise control. :banging:

I don't know...name one game against Utah where they looked like they had their act together? After giving 100+ the first two games, they held Utah to 88, but could only manage to score 86. Don't get me wrong, when they play like a team...concentrate on defense and run the Triangle offense the way Phil coaches it, they are terrific. But I didn't see it in the first two games...and now want to go back and watch the last game too.

Hey if you want to take advice from Magic, the man who had HIV then was magically cured, be my guest :flap:

If a HOF player is talking, it's generally wise to listen. You don't have to agree, but you should at least listen. As for your comment, my wife does that too. When she can't win an argument, she finds something else to talk about and deflects away. :flap:

SteelersinCA
04-24-2009, 05:33 PM
If a HOF player is talking, it's generally wise to listen. You don't have to agree, but you should at least listen. As for your comment, my wife does that too. When she can't win an argument, she finds something else to talk about and deflects away. :flap:

I was unaware we were arguing....:noidea: FWIW there is a lot of merit to not overlooking your present competition as well. I'm sure there are some HOF people that have said that, I'm too lazy to look up quotes at the present. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

xfl2001fan
04-24-2009, 05:42 PM
I was unaware we were arguing....:noidea: FWIW there is a lot of merit to not overlooking your present competition as well. I'm sure there are some HOF people that have said that, I'm too lazy to look up quotes at the present. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I doubt that any Cavs player/coach is overlooking Detroit. They were a huge burden for us to get by in the past...and the only real difference between this team and the ones from the past is Chauncey Billups is gone. Sheed can still shoot threes, Tayshaun is still one gangly defender and Hamilton is exhaustion waiting to set in.

Those three alone you could (almost) build a team around. (I'm not a fan of Sheed's "headcase" issues.)

tony hipchest
04-24-2009, 05:50 PM
:shout:-HEY!

:nono: no talking actual basketball in my manning vs. brady.... i mean kobe vs. labron thread!

SteelersinCA
04-24-2009, 06:07 PM
You forgot:shout: OUTRAGE!

MACH1
04-24-2009, 06:18 PM
:shout:-HEY!

:nono: no talking actual basketball in my manning vs. brady.... i mean kobe vs. labron thread!

http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/cheese_info_center.jpg

:chuckle:

revefsreleets
04-25-2009, 01:41 PM
Don't look now, but the 6ers are taking care of business against the Magic.

xfl2001fan
04-25-2009, 02:11 PM
Don't look now, but the 6ers are taking care of business against the Magic.

I figured that the Magic (essentially a 3-ball team) wouldn't go far in the playoffs (even with Howard) but I have to admit, I wasn't going to pick the scrappy Sixers to be the team to beat them.

If the Hornets can pull off a victory, that leaves one 3-0 team left. I was figuring that Orlando and LA would be two teams to do that...

Boston isn't a surprise...because KG and Powe are out.

xfl2001fan
04-26-2009, 07:11 PM
Aaaand...the Cavaliers are the first to wait for the 2nd round opponent. No need to look past Detroit...they blew by them in the 2nd half of the game and never looked back. Meanwhile Cavs fans invested "The Palace" with their cheers and chants of MVP, eventually drowning out the so called home crowd.

Chicago keeping it interesting with Boston...Philly making a series out of Orlando and the Heat/Hawks could very well go all 7.

LA should close out the series at home with the next game...but Utah has scored a lot of points there. SA is all but done and I don't think NO get's past game 6. POR/HOU has the makings of a nice 7 game stretch, with the poor winner having to face a fairly rested Lakers team. Ouch.

lilyoder6
04-26-2009, 09:14 PM
lets go bulls... i am wanting this upset so bad right now

xfl2001fan
04-29-2009, 08:00 PM
Rondo not suspended (rightfully so) and Howard is suspended (again, rightfully so). Personally, the shot Howard took at that other dude...I think he deserved more than a 1 game suspension.

WTF were the Bulls thinking in not doubling down on Pierce at the end of the 4th and during overtime? With KG out and Allen fouled out, there are really only two guys who are going to beat you at that point. Rondo and Pierce.

SteelersinCA
04-29-2009, 08:23 PM
The entirety of Boston and the greater New England area for that matter sucks.

lilyoder6
04-30-2009, 12:17 AM
brad miller needs to be shot... that over grown monkey..

The Duke
04-30-2009, 10:32 PM
Derrick Rose is quickly becoming one f my favorite NBA players

This Bulls- Celtics series has been amazing!!

xfl2001fan
04-30-2009, 10:38 PM
D-Rose has impressed me. I really thought he was overhyped as the season had progressed, but watching him play...

I actually prefer the Celtics to win..but if the Bulls can take out Orlando, all the better...because Orlando is the one team that concerns me in the East. The Cavs just don't seem to match up well with them IMO.

SteelersinCA
04-30-2009, 11:48 PM
Go Bulls, Screw New England.

xfl2001fan
05-01-2009, 12:07 AM
The only reason why I would root for Boston is because I thought they had the best chance of knocking off Orlando....but if the Bulls keep playing like this, who knows.

lilyoder6
05-01-2009, 12:09 AM
this series betwen the celtics and bulls is becoming one of the better series as of late...

i mean 5 out of 6 games have gone to OT...
i am going full force here for the bulls

xfl2001fan
05-01-2009, 12:11 AM
What's crazy is that there were 7 OT periods. That's a lot in an entire playoffs...but in one freaking series?

SteelersinCA
05-01-2009, 01:11 AM
I don't like the Bulls, but it would be great if they win.

xfl2001fan
05-01-2009, 08:31 AM
I don't like the Bulls, but it would be great if they win.

I actually don't care for them either way (now that MJ is gone.) Used to hate those guys when he was there. I'm not a particularly big fan of Joakim Noah though. And this has nothing to do with OSU/Gators championship game...because I'm a quasi-fan of Al Horford. Yeah it's silly, but there it is.

SteelersinCA
05-01-2009, 10:06 AM
I actually don't care for them either way (now that MJ is gone.) Used to hate those guys when he was there. I'm not a particularly big fan of Joakim Noah though. And this has nothing to do with OSU/Gators championship game...because I'm a quasi-fan of Al Horford. Yeah it's silly, but there it is.

Why did you hate the Bulls when MJ was there? :noidea:

xfl2001fan
05-01-2009, 10:29 AM
Why did you hate the Bulls when MJ was there? :noidea:

I'm a Cavs fan. We were NEVER getting out of the East with him there. Was he talented? Absolutely, but I wanted my team to win...and it wasn't going to happen. Mark Price, Brad Daugherty...such great talent...so little results.

55BaileyFan
05-01-2009, 02:03 PM
GO ROCKETS

SteelersinCA
05-01-2009, 02:13 PM
I'm a Cavs fan. We were NEVER getting out of the East with him there. Was he talented? Absolutely, but I wanted my team to win...and it wasn't going to happen. Mark Price, Brad Daugherty...such great talent...so little results.

I was merely jesting, I know why you hate the bulls.

xfl2001fan
05-01-2009, 02:34 PM
GO ROCKETS

Just out of curiosity, is there a particular reason why you root for the Rockets?

SteelersinCA
05-07-2009, 12:35 PM
Lakers/Rockets is gonna be a good series. I like chippy games, it's intense. Although I saw nothing wrong with Kobe repeatedly telling Battier he can't guard him.

tony hipchest
05-07-2009, 01:58 PM
Lakers/Rockets is gonna be a good series. I like chippy games, it's intense. Although I saw nothing wrong with Kobe repeatedly telling Battier he can't guard him.
yeah it is. i even had to throw on my yao ming jersey for support (hey, when you find an $80 swingman jersey on the sales rack at foot locker for $11, its a deal too good to pass up).

artest looked like he was gonna take over the game. i thought it was a pretty lame call to throw him out, however d. fisher was justifiably tossed for his hines ward block.

SteelersinCA
05-07-2009, 03:46 PM
Yeah for sure D fish should have been tossed, but it was still fun to watch. Kobe vs Artest might get fun!

RoethlisBURGHer
05-07-2009, 04:10 PM
Kobe should be suspended for throwing that elbow to Ron Ron's throat.

Artest was fouling Kobe, but there was no need for throwing that elbow like Kobe did.

That elbow thrown by Kobe was potentially more harmful than the one that was thrown by Dwight Howard in the first round against the Sixers.

But the NBA won't suspend Kobe, Kobe can kill someone on the court and wouldn't get called for a tech.

SteelersinCA
05-07-2009, 06:25 PM
Well let's not get crazy, I'm not so sure it was thrown at his throat. If you watch the replay Artest had his arm over kobe's shoulder. Kobe threw an elbow, I don't think he had any idea it would wind up in Artest's throat. I haven't heard one experienced NBA commentator say he should be suspended, fined, but not suspended.

xfl2001fan
05-07-2009, 06:43 PM
Well let's not get crazy, I'm not so sure it was thrown at his throat. If you watch the replay Artest had his arm over kobe's shoulder. Kobe threw an elbow, I don't think he had any idea it would wind up in Artest's throat. I haven't heard one experienced NBA commentator say he should be suspended, fined, but not suspended.

Yeah, after watching the replay, his elbow landed at shoulder level...not above it. It was high (and dangerously so) but not that high. Artest mugging him from behind wasn't helping matters at all, he was pushing on the back of Kobe's head.

That being said, if I'm a Lakers fan, I'm a bit worried. Battier was playing great defense on Kobe...and he still hit 60%. He won't (likely) be able to reproduce those crazy shots at that level again.

Fisher was blatant violence. He absolutely should be suspended.

xfl2001fan
05-07-2009, 09:36 PM
Aaaand the Cavs are off the hook tonight.

SteelersinCA
05-07-2009, 10:41 PM
Yeah, after watching the replay, his elbow landed at shoulder level...not above it. It was high (and dangerously so) but not that high. Artest mugging him from behind wasn't helping matters at all, he was pushing on the back of Kobe's head.

That being said, if I'm a Lakers fan, I'm a bit worried. Battier was playing great defense on Kobe...and he still hit 60%. He won't (likely) be able to reproduce those crazy shots at that level again.

Fisher was blatant violence. He absolutely should be suspended.

Worried? Did you see the first game, they shot like the Bengals play football and almost won. The only person playing well in game 2 was Kobe, I guess Gasol had a decent game. The Rockets are the toughest match up for the Lakers, but everyone knew that. I don't think his defense was that great, sure he was on him the whole time, but just putting a hand in his face ain't stopping Kobe.

lilyoder6
05-07-2009, 11:20 PM
i just love what artest said to kobe right before he got injected... what a joke

SteelersinCA
05-08-2009, 10:17 AM
I think Fisher getting suspended helps the Lakers, he is too slow to guard the Rockets guards.

tony hipchest
05-08-2009, 10:34 AM
your probably right. still sends a good message that he was suspended.

and after the game they give kobe a flagrant 1 foul, yet artest was the one ejected? wtf.

kinda reminds me of the days where shaq was still allowed to mug people with 5 fouls cause he was a superstar and almost certain he wouldnt foul out.

tonights a good playoff evening. penguins game 4 and rockets/lakers right after. :tt02:

i may have to get me some good beer!

SteelersinCA
05-08-2009, 06:44 PM
your probably right. still sends a good message that he was suspended.

and after the game they give kobe a flagrant 1 foul, yet artest was the one ejected? wtf.

kinda reminds me of the days where shaq was still allowed to mug people with 5 fouls cause he was a superstar and almost certain he wouldnt foul out.

tonights a good playoff evening. penguins game 4 and rockets/lakers right after. :tt02:

i may have to get me some good beer!

What do you consider good beer?

SteelersinCA
05-08-2009, 10:47 PM
That foul on vujacic on wafer was hilarious wafer jumped right into him, what a joke.

tony hipchest
05-08-2009, 11:03 PM
That foul on vujacic on wafer was hilarious wafer jumped right into him, what a joke.i agree. spending more effort to "draw a foul" as opposed to "making a shot" is pretty weak sauce imo. but thats the name of the game nowadays. unfortunately the refs call was the right one.

rockets are getting spanked, and i figured this was the make or break game for them.

im conceding this series to the lakers.

as for good beer, i didnt splurge tonight (other than the shrimp on the barbie).

busch light it was.

as far as the good beer, i was thinking of some guiness, sierra nevada, roswell alien ale, or atleast some samuel adams.

imo almost all beer is "good beer" but coors light and IC light are amongst some of the crappiest i dont include on the list.

SteelersinCA
05-08-2009, 11:36 PM
Roswell alien ale, hmm I'll have to try that.

tony hipchest
05-09-2009, 12:11 AM
Roswell alien ale, hmm I'll have to try that.

if you can find it in your area, it is pretty damn good for a micro-brew. a very mainstream flavor.

nothing obscure or catchy about it (other than the name) .

i put it right there with michelob amber bock or yeungling as far as some of my own personal favorites go.

lilyoder6
05-09-2009, 08:57 AM
it was a good game last night.. and the lakers ran away with it...

wonder if yao will be able to play on sunday,..
that could hurt the rockets a lot if yao is out

SteelersinCA
05-09-2009, 09:49 PM
Yao broken foot, series over.

revefsreleets
05-10-2009, 06:55 AM
I'm beginning to wonder if the Nuggets can take the Lakers? They are very fast and play good defense. It'd be a shame if we don't get the Kobe/LeBron match-up that just about everyone wants, especially after watching James single-handedly beat the Hawks last night in the 4th quarter.

55BaileyFan
05-10-2009, 07:37 PM
Yao is out so my ROCKETS are done.

tony hipchest
05-10-2009, 10:11 PM
what a game between the celts and magic. boston showed the heart of a champion as baby davis nailed a buzzer beater to win by 1 and tie the series 2-2.

we got a series now.

on the flipside was the lakers showing the heart of an earthworm. pretty shitty of them to just decide to take the day off. i would be pretty concerned with that lacidasical effort if i was a lakerfan. kobe with only 15 points and no foul shots? :jawdrop:

in the meantime LBJ was putting on a clinic in michael jordan 101 the night before. the cavs are definitely the hungry team and seemed determined to sweep the entire playoffs. they got the "eye of the tiger".

i would definitely give the rockets a chance with mcgrady, yao, and dikembe. unfortunately i think theyre running on emotion and the lakers are running on being able to "flip the switch".

i definitely give the nuggets a chance. if the lakers think they can sleepwalk into the finals they will get punched in the mouth, and not know what hit them. kudos to the zenmaster for getting off an f-bomb in post game presser before it could be bleeped out. "give them some f--king credit." (in regards if he was embarrassed to lose to the rockets). :thumbsup:

i see nothing that says this isnt the cavs championship to lose.

'melo vs. 'bron would be a great series, and one i could appreciate the outcome either way. g. karl is a hell of a coach.

lilyoder6
05-11-2009, 07:44 AM
on the flipside was the lakers showing the heart of an earthworm. pretty shitty of them to just decide to take the day off. i would be pretty concerned with that lacidasical effort if i was a lakerfan. kobe with only 15 points and no foul shots? :jawdrop:

in the meantime LBJ was putting on a clinic in michael jordan 101 the night before. the cavs are definitely the hungry team and seemed determined to sweep the entire playoffs. they got the "eye of the tiger".



well the hawks are no rockets....

but it's typical lakers.. phil will get in there ass and they will come out in game 5 and dominate and kobe put up another 30/40 point game

revefsreleets
05-11-2009, 12:04 PM
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with a LeBron/Melo finals.

But it ain't Kobe/LeBron.

xfl2001fan
05-12-2009, 08:04 AM
well the hawks are no rockets....

but it's typical lakers.. phil will get in there ass and they will come out in game 5 and dominate and kobe put up another 30/40 point game

So much faith in an organization that constantly underperforms. It's really sweet.

So, a Yao-less, McGrady-less Rockets are still better thant he Hawks? Even if they are, who's better between the Lakers and the Cavs? Somehow, when I think of inside dominance, Scula doesn't make my top 20 big-men in the league. Not that it matters, because the Lakers didn't play inspired ball.

You talk about the Hawks like they're a crappy team. They took Boston to 7 games last year (how many did Kobe's team last?)

Kobe can be great almost any time he wants...but he's not great all the time. Lebron never turns it off...so he doesn't have to worry about turning it on...there are times when he (instead) turns it waaay up.

This is why Lebron is better than Kobe.

lilyoder6
05-12-2009, 08:20 AM
So much faith in an organization that constantly underperforms. It's really sweet.

So, a Yao-less, McGrady-less Rockets are still better thant he Hawks? Even if they are, who's better between the Lakers and the Cavs? Somehow, when I think of inside dominance, Scula doesn't make my top 20 big-men in the league. Not that it matters, because the Lakers didn't play inspired ball.

You talk about the Hawks like they're a crappy team. They took Boston to 7 games last year (how many did Kobe's team last?)
Kobe can be great almost any time he wants...but he's not great all the time. Lebron never turns it off...so he doesn't have to worry about turning it on...there are times when he (instead) turns it waaay up.

This is why Lebron is better than Kobe.

i just said the rockets are better than the hawks... so slow ur roll there skippy...


at least the lakers were in the NBA championship last yr unlike the cavs

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 08:28 AM
You means the same Cavs who were in it 2 years ago?

The same Cavs that also took the best team in the NBA last year to seven games in the East semi's? Lakers only managed 6.

lilyoder6
05-12-2009, 11:26 AM
You means the same Cavs who were in it 2 years ago?

The same Cavs that also took the best team in the NBA last year to seven games in the East semi's? Lakers only managed 6.

the same team who got swept in the finals.. who looked lost

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 11:32 AM
the same team who got swept in the finals.. who looked lost

They made the finals and lost. If it matters how many games they did it in, then the Cavs must've been better than the Lakers last year because they took the Celts to 7. If it doesn't matter how many games, then the Lakers going to the finals last year means just about as much as the Cavs going two years ago.

lilyoder6
05-12-2009, 03:53 PM
They made the finals and lost. If it matters how many games they did it in,

in most cases.. u are correct but when u get beat down and swept.. that does mean something.. win at least 1 game.. ur in the finals

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 04:09 PM
in most cases.. u are correct but when u get beat down and swept.. that does mean something.. win at least 1 game.. ur in the finals

Wasn't fair...5 against 1.

Won't be that this time. Christ, will the Lakers even make it past the mediocre and depleted Rockets? If so, can they beat Denver?

This is the Cavs year. It's LBJ's coming out party as the best player in the NBA.

Game.
Set.
Match.

SteelersinCA
05-12-2009, 11:40 PM
The rest of the NBA better hope the Lakers don't play every game like this game 5. The rockets may have woken the sleeping beast. 40 pts at the end of the 3rd, can Houston just forfeit??

tony hipchest
05-12-2009, 11:56 PM
sleepwalking... yes, but hardly a "beast".

as for waking a giant, it looks like the lakers figured they might as well go out and actually try to earn their paychecks.

the rest of the league better hope they dont have to roll out a team w/o its top 2 stars.

the problem with the lakers is they think everyone should just forfeit. this series is over next game, but if the lakers were as good as advertized and hyped it shouldnt hav egone beyond 5.

in other news-

the celts and magic are gettin it on. that has turned into one hell of a series. i think one of those teams may actualy have a chance of stealing a game from the cavs.

lilyoder6
05-13-2009, 12:08 AM
Wasn't fair...5 against 1.

Won't be that this time. Christ, will the Lakers even make it past the mediocre and depleted Rockets? If so, can they beat Denver?

This is the Cavs year. It's LBJ's coming out party as the best player in the NBA.

Game.
Set.
Match.

can the cavs actually play a good team in the playoffs???

i think any team would of loved the easy path to the conference finals like the cavs have had...

lilyoder6
05-13-2009, 12:10 AM
as for waking a giant, it looks like the lakers figured they might as well go out and actually try to earn their paychecks.


the celts and magic are gettin it on. that has turned into one hell of a series. i think one of those teams may actualy have a chance of stealing a game from the cavs.

well the cavs will actually have to go earn there paychecks for the 1st time in the playoffs.. when conference finals come.. they will actually play a good team...



and i was upset that the magic let that game go.. no fg in the last 5:30... boy oh boy

tony hipchest
05-13-2009, 12:30 AM
can the cavs actually play a good team in the playoffs???

i think any team would of loved the easy path to the conference finals like the cavs have had...
are you calling the jazz and rockets "good"?

just cause they smacked the lakers a few times doesnt mean they are good. it just exposes some of the lakers weaknesses.

what you just said is akin to patriot fans trying to diminish steelers sb victories against the seahawks and cardinals.

revefsreleets
05-13-2009, 06:23 AM
Last time I checked, the Cavs haven't lost a playoff game yet. In fact, they've won EVERY game by double digits, which has never been done before.

So, you can dismiss the level of competition if you like, but the Cavs aren't. They are going out every night and doing what they should be doing, which is respecting their opponent, playing hard, and taking care of business.

SteelersinCA
05-13-2009, 10:05 AM
sleepwalking... yes, but hardly a "beast".

as for waking a giant, it looks like the lakers figured they might as well go out and actually try to earn their paychecks.

the rest of the league better hope they dont have to roll out a team w/o its top 2 stars.

the problem with the lakers is they think everyone should just forfeit. this series is over next game, but if the lakers were as good as advertized and hyped it shouldnt hav egone beyond 5.

in other news-

the celts and magic are gettin it on. that has turned into one hell of a series. i think one of those teams may actualy have a chance of stealing a game from the cavs.

We are saying the same thing. The Lakers main problem is they aren't getting any scoring from their bench, and this is the first time where Bynum has done much of anything. If they return to even a shadow of the team they were when Bynum got injured, they'll be in the finals. We can give all the excuses in the world as to why they haven't but if they play inspired bball, they are the best team in the league, no one really denies that.

lilyoder6
05-13-2009, 10:09 AM
Last time I checked, the Cavs haven't lost a playoff game yet. In fact, they've won EVERY game by double digits, which has never been done before.

So, you can dismiss the level of competition if you like, but the Cavs aren't. They are going out every night and doing what they should be doing, which is respecting their opponent, playing hard, and taking care of business.

not that hard to do.. when u are playing teams that are not that good.. i mean the piston were under 500.. and the hawks were not as good as they were last yr...

u can try and say the lvl of competition has nothing to do with it.. but evryone knows that the pistons and hawks weren't playoff teams this yr..

lilyoder6
05-13-2009, 10:10 AM
are you calling the jazz and rockets "good"?

just cause they smacked the lakers a few times doesnt mean they are good. it just exposes some of the lakers weaknesses.

what you just said is akin to patriot fans trying to diminish steelers sb victories against the seahawks and cardinals.

i'm saying the jazz and rockets are better than teams 4-8 of the eastern conference..

western conference harder than eastern conference

xfl2001fan
05-13-2009, 09:06 PM
not that hard to do.. when u are playing teams that are not that good.. i mean the piston were under 500.. and the hawks were not as good as they were last yr...
Yes, the Pistons are a shell of their former selves without Chauncey...but they still have Sheed, Prince and Hamilton...and they're still a dangerous trio.

You say that Atlanta wasn't as good as last year...maybe last years playoffs, they were overachieving? Maybe they're as good as indicated? Either way, they're a very talented team capapble of scoring against almost any team...and were 32-10 at home. This includes a home win over the Lakers.

u can try and say the lvl of competition has nothing to do with it.. but evryone knows that the pistons and hawks weren't playoff teams this yr..

Do you work hard at making stupid comments like this? If they weren't playoff teams this year, then what were the Cavaliers doing sweeping them? Do we get a free pass to the finals...and those games not count? They were playoff teams...the only argument you could make about them is that Phoenix should have been in over Detroit...there isn't a single team in the West (after Phoenix) that would have gotten into the East playoffs. So, I'll give you that Detroit maybe shouldn't be in...but Atlanta earned their playoff bid. They had a better record than the Suns did. They would have just missed out in the West...but such is life.

Regardless of level of competition, 8 straight by 10+ points has NEVER been done before. Not even Michael Jordan's Bulls were able to pull that off. And they're considered one of the greatest dynasties ever in the history of the NBA. Celtics, Lakers of old? Nope, those dynasties couldn't pull it off either. In the entire History of the NBA...it's never been done until this season's Cavs led by the most dangerous player on the planet. (Those bolded words, were from the TNT crew when describing Lebron James, not Kobe Bryant.)

fansince'76
05-13-2009, 09:12 PM
Regardless of level of competition, 8 straight by 10+ points has NEVER been done before. Not even Michael Jordan's Bulls were able to pull that off. And they're considered one of the greatest dynasties ever in the history of the NBA. Celtics, Lakers of old? Nope, those dynasties couldn't pull it off either. In the entire History of the NBA...it's never been done until this season's Cavs led by the most dangerous player on the planet.

Which is surprising considering the absolute cakewalk to the finals the Lakers had almost annually in the West back in the '80s. Don't get me wrong, the Kareem/Magic Showtime Lakers were great, but they had zero competition in the West for pretty much that entire decade.

SteelersinCA
05-13-2009, 10:14 PM
Yes, the Pistons are a shell of their former selves without Chauncey...but they still have Sheed, Prince and Hamilton...and they're still a dangerous trio.

You say that Atlanta wasn't as good as last year...maybe last years playoffs, they were overachieving? Maybe they're as good as indicated? Either way, they're a very talented team capapble of scoring against almost any team...and were 32-10 at home. This includes a home win over the Lakers.



Do you work hard at making stupid comments like this? If they weren't playoff teams this year, then what were the Cavaliers doing sweeping them? Do we get a free pass to the finals...and those games not count? They were playoff teams...the only argument you could make about them is that Phoenix should have been in over Detroit...there isn't a single team in the West (after Phoenix) that would have gotten into the East playoffs. So, I'll give you that Detroit maybe shouldn't be in...but Atlanta earned their playoff bid. They had a better record than the Suns did. They would have just missed out in the West...but such is life.

Regardless of level of competition, 8 straight by 10+ points has NEVER been done before. Not even Michael Jordan's Bulls were able to pull that off. And they're considered one of the greatest dynasties ever in the history of the NBA. Celtics, Lakers of old? Nope, those dynasties couldn't pull it off either. In the entire History of the NBA...it's never been done until this season's Cavs led by the most dangerous player on the planet. (Those bolded words, were from the TNT crew when describing Lebron James, not Kobe Bryant.)

OK, I have to stop you, the Cavs haven't won anything yet. You can't start comparing the 2009 Cavs to teams that won multiple titles just because they have beat teams by 10+ pts. If the Cavs don't win this year no one is going to be saying the Cavs belong in the same discussion as the Lakers, Celtics, or Bulls. (except maybe Cavs apologists) The Cavs in the same discussion as legitimate dynasties, come on. Win something first.

tony hipchest
05-13-2009, 10:29 PM
OK, I have to stop you, the Cavs haven't won anything yet. You can't start comparing the 2009 Cavs to teams that won multiple titles just because they have beat teams by 10+ pts. If the Cavs don't win this year no one is going to be saying the Cavs belong in the same discussion as the Lakers, Celtics, or Bulls. (except maybe Cavs apologists) The Cavs in the same discussion as legitimate dynasties, come on. Win something first.i dont think its so much about the cavs. unfortunately, i think the kobe vs. labron argument has seeped back into this thread.

denver is spanking the mavs. kinda sucks, cause the mavericks is about the only thing outta dallas that i like. since gary payton is out of the league, jason kidd is probably my favorite player (loved him and k. mart w/ the nets). i hate to see dallas go out like this, but dont mind it being to the nugs.

i just hope the lakers overlook denver.

you gotta admit... the cavs have got something going on. im definitely not a cavsfan, but appreciate the HELL out of what labron is bringing to the game.

he deserves a championship. now all he's got to do is go out and earn it. i think he will.

SteelersinCA
05-13-2009, 10:57 PM
i dont think its so much about the cavs. unfortunately, i think the kobe vs. labron argument has seeped back into this thread.

denver is spanking the mavs. kinda sucks, cause the mavericks is about the only thing outta dallas that i like. since gary payton is out of the league, jason kidd is probably my favorite player (loved him and k. mart w/ the nets). i hate to see dallas go out like this, but dont mind it being to the nugs.

i just hope the lakers overlook denver.

you gotta admit... the cavs have got something going on. im definitely not a cavsfan, but appreciate the HELL out of what labron is bringing to the game.

he deserves a championship. now all he's got to do is go out and earn it. i think he will.

I don't mind Lebron, I just don't want him to win it in the shitstain of America a.k.a. Cleveland. Lakers are the best team IF they decide to play. I don't think anyone is going to beat them.

fansince'76
05-13-2009, 11:09 PM
denver is spanking the mavs. kinda sucks, cause the mavericks is about the only thing outta dallas that i like. since gary payton is out of the league, jason kidd is probably my favorite player (loved him and k. mart w/ the nets). i hate to see dallas go out like this, but dont mind it being to the nugs

After what Cuban said to K-Mart's mother, I'm glad the Mavs got bounced.

tony hipchest
05-13-2009, 11:25 PM
After what Cuban said to K-Mart's mother, I'm glad the Mavs got bounced.
i wish like hell cuban owned the pittsburgh pirates.

he went overboard but he is a fan like you and i. he doesnt seperate his fandom from his ownership and i can appreciate that.

to his credit, he did make amends. what he did was unprofessional and most definitely childish, but as a passionate fan, i understand it.


and to show no bias, ive been a k. mart fan ever since he was a rookie w/ the nets, and definitely dont view him as a thug. dude has always played balls out (although i could talk some significant crap about the tacky lipstick tatoo on his neck, i find it insignificant).

but the mavs had their chance[s] and i am more than happy to see the nugs (and g. karl) get theirs.

lilyoder6
05-14-2009, 12:46 AM
Regardless of level of competition, 8 straight by 10+ points has NEVER been done before. Not even Michael Jordan's Bulls were able to pull that off.

thats not that hard to do i bet when u are playing not so good teams.. i bet that if the bulls had the chance to play the pistons and the hawks this yr.. they prob would of won all 8 by 20+ points...

compition so far for the cavs have been non-existant... now if they can do this agaisnt either the celtics or the magic.. then i will give them credit b/c they are good playoff teams...

tony hipchest
05-14-2009, 09:15 PM
lakers were down 21-5 with 3 minutes left in the 1st quarter.

that is pathetic.

another great game with boston/orlando. game 7 should be an excellent one.

tony hipchest
05-14-2009, 11:46 PM
lakerfans-

how does it feel to know ron artest is earning more respect than kobe bryant is freely given?

lilyoder6
05-14-2009, 11:59 PM
lakerfans-

how does it feel to know ron artest is earning more respect than kobe bryant is freely given?

wow.. a home team;s fans rooting for there own player instead of the opposing team's player... thats unheard of.. PLZ

tony hipchest
05-15-2009, 12:24 AM
wow.. a home team;s fans rooting for there own player instead of the opposing team's player... thats unheard of.. PLZlol. gun to my head, if i had to claim one, "my team" is the seattle supersonics. yep, im a payton, kemp, schrempf, mcmillan, gill fan.


:hunch:

but since i dont have a team to root for, i am an NBA fan and root for individual players.

(i actually wouldnt have minded too much if payton and malone won a ring with the lakers)

i did always root for the pacers right before before artest got there, and the kings before artest got there. :noidea:

SteelersinCA
05-15-2009, 09:13 AM
Kobe is getting zero help, what can you do, we all know 1 person can't win it by himself.

tony hipchest
05-15-2009, 09:26 AM
Kobe is getting zero help, what can you do, we all know 1 person can't win it by himself.we all know that, but somebody should explain it to kobe. remember him waving off k. malone in the all-star game? its an attitude he's always had.

lilyoder6
05-15-2009, 10:43 AM
we all know that, but somebody should explain it to kobe. remember him waving off k. malone in the all-star game? its an attitude he's always had.

do u actually beleive that kobe thinks he can win it by himself... if u do.. then u a sad sad lil man....

revefsreleets
05-15-2009, 11:39 AM
Lakers are.....Ch----ooooooo--------kiiiiiiiiing.....

They'll pull it off, but Denver will take them in the next series.

SteelersinCA
05-15-2009, 10:23 PM
If they don't wake up Denver might sweep them. The bench is pathetic. They aren't playing like the deep team everyone says they are.

lilyoder6
05-15-2009, 11:42 PM
the way the rockets are playing.. i could actually see them winning game 7.. even tho the lakers should win.. the rockets are playing real good w/o yao for some reason.. and the rockets are a good enough team to win

unlike the east, when u get to coast into the conference final if ur the #1 seed...

revefsreleets
05-18-2009, 10:16 AM
What a joke. The Cavs and Magic are the two best teams in the league now, and at full strength the Celts are right there as well. If they played in the West the finals would be....exactly what they are now: Cavs and Magic.

SteelersinCA
05-18-2009, 11:01 AM
I think the Lakers would be right there as well. I'm just hoping Bynum continues to come along, he has been anything but helpful except for the last game. I think the Lakers will be fine against Denver.

lilyoder6
05-19-2009, 11:26 PM
well i would have to say it looks like kobe and the lakers are done for.. No way they can beat the nuggets...


oh wait.. the lakers did win.. my bad.. b/c i thought i read somewhere the nugs were gonna destroy them

Fordy
05-19-2009, 11:32 PM
That play late in the 3rd quarter when Kobe drove on Dahntay Jones and took about 37 steps was quite amusing since no travel was called. I could care less who won, I just found that funny as hell. This was the 1st NBA game I watched in quite some time and probably the last..I love basketball but the NBA is so lame...

SteelersinCA
05-19-2009, 11:39 PM
Get used to it, they all walk to the rim.

MACH1
05-19-2009, 11:40 PM
That play late in the 3rd quarter when Kobe drove on Dahntay Jones and took about 37 steps was quite amusing since no travel was called. I could care less who won, I just found that funny as hell. This was the 1st NBA game I watched in quite some time and probably the last..I love basketball but the NBA is so lame...

Yeah and I thought I was watching football with all the tackles denver made, without so much as a whistle being blown. :shake02:

fansince'76
05-19-2009, 11:42 PM
Get used to it, they all walk to the rim.

Yep, I think they stopped calling traveling in the NBA around about the time Jordan broke into the league. Consistently calling it, anyway - ever since around that time it has pretty much depended on who's doing the traveling as to whether they call it or not....

SteelersinCA
05-20-2009, 01:12 AM
Yeah, Kobe and Lebron will never see a travel call.

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 08:00 AM
Two words: Crab dribble.

I never said that Denver was going to sweep the Lakers or anything...and it WAS in LA. Last I checked it was a best of 7 series, and the Lakers are only up 1-0.

SteelersinCA
05-20-2009, 11:15 AM
What's a crab dribble, never heard of it, but I'm not the biggest NBA fan.

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 11:42 AM
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/01/04/lebron-upset-his-crab-dribble-was-called-a-travel-in-final-sec/

This is the same situation as Jordan, who travelled pretty much every time he touched the ball, but, because it was Jordan, they never called it. LBJ ain't there yet, which is precisely why there is STILL an argument being made publicly that Kobe is better. James hasn't reached the critical mass appeal where he's just widely considered the best yet, but it's coming.

3 years from now only the hardest core Lakers fan will still be arguing that Kobe is better, and I'm talking totral overall legacy, not just season-to-season comparisons.

Hell, half the people arguing against LBJ probably barely ever see him play. But they'll see him soon. I expect him to approach triple/double numbers in every game from here on out. It's going to be a basketball clinic, INCLUDING rebounds and ASSISTS and blocks. Hell, James is even starting shoot better from the line, and his 3 ball game gets better all the time.

lilyoder6
05-20-2009, 03:56 PM
well i hope 3 yrs from now.. lebron would of finally surpassed kobe.. if not.. then either A. kobe has a fountain of youth stashed underneath his house to let him keep playing that good.. or B: lebron will have steeply declined in 3 yrs

SteelersinCA
05-20-2009, 10:29 PM
Same old cleveland story, no one on the team except lebron and he looks beat.

lilyoder6
05-21-2009, 12:19 AM
Same old cleveland story, no one on the team except lebron and he looks beat.

but but but.. the cavs are so good :sofunny:


this is what happens when ur b-ball team actually plays a team

revefsreleets
05-21-2009, 07:54 AM
I didn't realize the series was over after 1 game...

I also thought James played nowhere near his best, and, bear in mind, that's after he posted THIS stat line:

49 points
8 assists
6 boards
3 blocks
2 steals

In the 4th quarter they stopped moving the ball around and the Magic were essentially able to double or triple down on James, and he had little help from his other shooters. The time off clearly hurt them too, and they looked worn down and out of shape. As the announcers kept pointing out, they went 9 days with no way to simulate game conditions, and they were clearly fatigued because of it.

Last night was a wake up call, and I figured they'd lose 2-3 games heading into the finals anyway. Call last night one of two losses they'll suffer in this series.

Bad news for Lakers fans...even if you make it past Denver, you aren't beatring EITHER team from the East. As I've said all along, the Cavs and Magic are the two best teams in the NBA right now, and the REAL finals are going on right now.

xfl2001fan
05-21-2009, 11:43 AM
but but but.. the cavs are so good :sofunny:


this is what happens when ur b-ball team actually plays a team

I would chalk this up to a poor defensive half-time adjustment on the part of Brown. They should have continued with single coverage on Howard and not letting the open 3's. Yes, Howard was getting his...but at the half, we were up by 15. By trying to double down on Howard, you actually play into the hands of the Magic.

Poor shooting by West/Williams didn't help.

SteelersinCA
05-21-2009, 11:52 AM
That's the problem, if James has to provide half your points, it's not going to be pretty. Even if it wasn't his best, he was obviously tired coming into the 4th qtr. I don't think it's so much a question of 9 days off, you cannot convince me Lebron wasn't keeping his conditioning up. It's the fact that he has to do EVERYTHING on that team. The magic make him work, the question is how much does he have to give. I've never seen him look so tired.

I think you can't discount the fact that the Magic came from 16 back too. Lebron needs help and he ain't getting it from the Cavs.

SteelersinCA
05-21-2009, 11:56 AM
By the way, who in the hell was that man dressed in drag behind the Cavs bench? Black man, 70s hair style, white shirt, heavy makeup, I know you saw him and were like WTF.

xfl2001fan
05-21-2009, 12:06 PM
By the way, who in the hell was that man dressed in drag behind the Cavs bench? Black man, 70s hair style, white shirt, heavy makeup, I know you saw him and were like WTF.

Don't know, don't watch the fans.

As for Lebron being tired...I think it was more the cramps that were setting in that he was trying to fight/play through.

SteelersinCA
05-21-2009, 12:14 PM
He/SHe was right behind the bench, every time they showed the bench during a TO it was right there, anyway. Do you ever think maybe all this carrying the team will shorten Lebron's career? I hope not, I hope he has a long career somewhere other than Cleveland, but last night got me thinking how long can he do this? I never thought I'd see Lebron telling the HC to call timeouts, maybe it was the cramps and that was it, but man he looked abused out there.

revefsreleets
05-21-2009, 02:21 PM
He was dehydrated, too.

SteelersinCA
05-21-2009, 08:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6znkbMJJTyQ

SteelersinCA
05-22-2009, 12:07 AM
In other news the Lakers suck.

lilyoder6
05-22-2009, 12:24 AM
i say nike getting there shit back together after those 2 commercials..

and bout the lakers loss.. didn't watch it.. was working.. but i guess there was some bad decision making in the 4th.... good going.. lol.. oh well now to the pepsi center.. where WWE will not be at on mon,, :(

xfl2001fan
05-22-2009, 09:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6znkbMJJTyQ

I'll have to look at this when I get home late tonight. I have too many kids to watch commercials...it's time to change diapers, get drinks, snacks, use the latrine myself...

If I have to leave the room, I usually have my 9 year old daughter keep watch for me to let me know when the game comes back on...which means that the 9 year old, the 4 year old and the 3 yeard old all come running and shouting. :chuckle:

It's funny, ESPN put on a poll asking which was more surprising loss, the Cavs in Game 1 or LA in game 2...and I was looking for the option for "Neither" and/or "Push".

I wasn't all that surprised by either loss. I was miffed at the Cavs opening round loss...as well as Denvers...though I think I really would rather play the Lakers...and not just to shut up the Kobe fans.

lilyoder6
05-22-2009, 10:07 AM
It's funny, ESPN put on a poll asking which was more surprising loss, the Cavs in Game 1 or LA in game 2...and I was looking for the option for "Neither" and/or "Push".

I wasn't all that surprised by either loss. I was miffed at the Cavs opening round loss...as well as Denvers...though I think I really would rather play the Lakers...and not just to shut up the Kobe fans.

i think ppl knew that the den/la game was not going to be a sweep.. so any loss shouldn't be suprsing..

but the cavs dropping game 1 was a deal.. they were getting A lot of attention, and the fact they were unbeaten so far..

but it is what it is...

i just want dwight to get big.. haha

revefsreleets
05-22-2009, 10:11 AM
I expected the Magic to steal one, and I expect the Cavs to steal one in Orlando. Say:

Magic (In Cleveland)
Cavs (Tie it up at home)
Magic win at home
Cavs win in Orlando
Cavs win at home
Cavs steal this one to in Orlando to take the series

SteelersinCA
05-22-2009, 10:21 AM
good possibility rev, but watching the lakers in game 2 was like watching the cavs in game 1. Neither Kobe nor lebron are going to get it done on their own. But I gotta think the Magic are due for a cold spell from the 3 point arc soon, can they really keep draining 3's all season long and into the playoffs?

revefsreleets
05-22-2009, 10:31 AM
The second half, especially the 4th quarter, the Cavs were just lethargic. There was no movement, and subsequently no ball movement. To be quite honest, the Cavs are a MUCH better team when LBJ scores in the 20's and has 15 assists then when he scores in the 40's and has 8.

They were just tired. They didn't really play much D the second half, either, which is surprising since it's their trademark.

I think the Magic awoke the sleeping giant with that win...I expect a much better all around team effort tonight and from here on out.

xfl2001fan
05-22-2009, 12:11 PM
i think ppl knew that the den/la game was not going to be a sweep.. so any loss shouldn't be suprsing..

but the cavs dropping game 1 was a deal.. they were getting A lot of attention, and the fact they were unbeaten so far..

but it is what it is...

i just want dwight to get big.. haha

The way Denver has been playing (and in a related, but reversed sort of mentality) as well as the Lakers, Denver winning won't be a huge surprise. The Lakers are capable of being a dominant team...but they're not consistently interested in playing defense.

While Kobe is capable of being a great defensive player, offensive force...he has never struck me as a legit team leader in the sense that Chauncey is. Kobe's a better player...but Chauncey is a better teammate/facilitator.

As for the Cavs, Orlando is the one team that is our biggest matchup nightmare. Us losing didn't surprise me. Even watching the Boston/Orlando series, I knew that if Orlando got out of there, they'd be primed to "hit us in the mouth". They did. Now I'm just hoping Revs prediction comes true about waking the sleeping giant.

Better substitutions on the part of Brown...better player/ball movement by LBJ's supporting cast will go a long ways towards helping the Cavs.

I think the strategy of letting Dwight Howard score while playing better perimiter D should be our defensive focus. It worked great in the first half. Dwight dominated the middle, we were up by 15. When we started focusing on one player (instead of the team we were up against), we started to fall behind.

revefsreleets
05-22-2009, 12:29 PM
Where in the World is Sasha Pavlovich?

xfl2001fan
05-22-2009, 12:35 PM
He's a bit of a headcase...when his head's in the game, he's hot. But otherwise, he does (often) play timid as well. He's like the anti-AI...in that instead of a "no-guts, no-glory" mentality...he looks constantly for the safe play.

Defensively, he'd be a nice addition to help slow down Lewis, and Hedo...especially with West and Lebron in.

Hopefully Wallace will wake up his defensive presence as well...he actually looked very old out there.

Maybe Brown should strongly consider going small, allowing Lebron to play the 4 (and guard Lewis)...and just having Varejao, Z and Wallace split time at center.

tony hipchest
05-22-2009, 12:47 PM
i havent been able to see any of the 3 games in their entirety, but have follewd either at a sports bar or via espn.com on blackberry, but i must say, this final 4 has livved up to the hype i expressed in the OP. 3 great games so far, and many more to come until a champ is crowned.

no matter how it turns out (as long as the lakers dont win) this is a great year to be a basketball fan.

welcome to superstardom, carmello anthony. mirroring kobe has shown you have finally "arrived".

i hate it that ive had to miss al the pre and post game hype and analysis.

these 2 series are reminding me of the ones the pacers and knicks used to have with the bulls in the early to mid '90's.

xfl2001fan
05-22-2009, 01:37 PM
No doubt Tony. Although I would have preferred another Cavs victory...there's a lot of excitement in this particular round of playoffs...and the ATL/MIA, BOS/CHI, HOU/LAL matchups were a lot of fun to watch.

Of course, there will be much less excitement from me should the Cavs drop the ball again tonight.

One of my coworkers claims responsibility for the Cavs loss. He's watched three Cavs games all season...LAL @ CLE, CLE @ ORL (the second time...where we could have lost by 85 points) and ORL @ CLE a few nights ago. He bet a Pepsi that the Cavs would win and wanted to watch it happen. He said he's picking the Cavs to win the next 4 and he won't watch a single one of them.

I promised him a case of Pepsi if the Cavs win the next 4. I'm not expecting to pay.

SteelersinCA
05-22-2009, 01:40 PM
Colin Cowherd said this years playoffs are setting viewership records.

xfl2001fan
05-22-2009, 02:02 PM
Colin Cowherd said this years playoffs are setting viewership records.

Is it any surprise? There have been some great moments in these playoffs...and they continue to get more exciting as each series plays out.

You've got the whole LA/CLE thing going on (and the changing of the guard/passing of the torch)...two other players (Dwight/Melo) trying to show that they belong in the conversation. Denver has a bunch of castoffs playing well together (much like Detroit several years ago). D-Wade carrying his team, ATL making it's noise, Dirk not going quietly into the night....Houston (despite injuries to T-Mac/Yao) playing hard. Boston's aging (and hurt) team hanging tough.

It's still anyones championship to win amongst the 4 teams left. Three teams led by the new age superstars...and one led by an aging superstar.

lilyoder6
05-22-2009, 08:15 PM
i would have to say... that mo williams should of gotten a T.. for throwing the ball at dwight howard..

and this game is looking like game 1 again... cavs blowing them out in the 1st... we'll just see how the adjustments work this time

xfl2001fan
05-22-2009, 10:34 PM
HOW MUCH MORE F*CKING CLUTCH CAN YOU F*CKING BE THAN THAT LAST SECOND (LITERALLY) THREE POINT SHOT? KOBE NEEDS TO STEP ASIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lilyoder6
05-22-2009, 10:36 PM
HOW MUCH MORE F*CKING CLUTCH CAN YOU F*CKING BE THAN THAT LAST SECOND (LITERALLY) THREE POINT SHOT? KOBE NEEDS TO STEP ASIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STFU KID.... that right there.. just shows u know nothing....

u should know more than anything else.. that was a chuck and pray shot...
i would say it was an awesome shot.. but u and i know that when he shot that, he was not confident that it was gonna go in

and now, i see we only going off of 1 thing??? the difference here.. is kobe is clutch night in and night out where lebron isn't...

i actually thought u were a good person to debate with, but i guess i was wrong.. i bet u would argue that someone who had a 1 hit wonder.. should be in the hof, based off on 1 thing

xfl2001fan
05-22-2009, 10:42 PM
STFU KID.... that right there.. just shows u know nothing....

u should know more than anything else.. that was a chuck and pray shot...
i would say it was an awesome shot.. but u and i know that when he shot that, he was not confident that it was gonna go in

and now, i see we only going off of 1 thing??? the difference here.. is kobe is clutch night in and night out where lebron isn't

Wrong thread (which is completely my fault.) Don't worry, I'll carry this over into the appropriate thread in just a moment.

lilyoder6
05-22-2009, 10:46 PM
but getting back to the cavs as a team..

this is the 2nd game in a row.. where they blew the magic out of the water from the beginning and let the magic come back and get this game... obv, the cavs stole this game./. but the cavs have got to find wtf is wrong, they can't keep giving up these leads.. it will hurt them in the long run

xfl2001fan
05-22-2009, 10:49 PM
And yet the Lakers are 1-1 as well. What we have is 4 evenly matched teams playing in their respective conferences. The Cavs figured something out this time, because they managed to win. Denver figured something out this time...because they managed to win (in LA no less.)

Edman
05-22-2009, 10:52 PM
This is the second game where the Magic lost on a buzzer beater.

They deserved to lose. Haven't they learned from the Celtics disaster that you never let a player take a last shot, especially a player like Lebron. Where was the Defense?

lilyoder6
05-22-2009, 11:01 PM
And yet the Lakers are 1-1 as well. What we have is 4 evenly matched teams playing in their respective conferences. The Cavs figured something out this time, because they managed to win. Denver figured something out this time...because they managed to win (in LA no less.)

i'm not talking about the lakers here...

the cavs are the one's who had 2 enornamous leads and blew them.. they just got lucky that lebron made the shot and tied the series..

and to saying that they figured something out is B.S... b/c it wouldn't of had to come down to the last second for them to win after having a 23 point lead

xfl2001fan
05-23-2009, 07:39 AM
i'm not talking about the lakers here...

the cavs are the one's who had 2 enornamous leads and blew them.. they just got lucky that lebron made the shot and tied the series..

and to saying that they figured something out is B.S... b/c it wouldn't of had to come down to the last second for them to win after having a 23 point lead

Because the Lakers couldn't build a 23 point lead. Is it a concern? Absolutely. However, if they continue to build 20+ point leads, then at least when Orlando get's on their runs, we know we'll be able to weather them. Orlando is (essentially) a typical 3-point shooting team. They are very streaky. The difference between them and most 3-point shooting teams, they have an absolute beast down low...and everyone else can shoot the three well (to include bench players.) So if Hedo is cold, they go to Lewis. If Lewis is cold, they can let Alston shoot. If Alston is cold, it's Pietrus. That's a lot of players to try and cover while also guarding the paint against Howard.

The Cavs just got lucky that they have a superstar on their team capable of making the clutch shot.

Didn't the Lakers have a 14 point lead that they blew? I mean, I know it's not 23 points...but that's still a big lead to blow. Especially for a team with Kobe, Gasol and Odom on it.

lilyoder6
05-23-2009, 10:07 AM
Didn't the Lakers have a 14 point lead that they blew? I mean, I know it's not 23 points...but that's still a big lead to blow.

ur right .. but it's a lot easier for a team to get on a run and cut into a 14 point lead.. than it is for a 23 point lead...

and the cavs have done this twice so far...
all i'm saying is that if they keep getting leads, and letting the opponent come back, it will hurt them.. and u should know this,.,

xfl2001fan
05-23-2009, 10:17 AM
ur right .. but it's a lot easier for a team to get on a run and cut into a 14 point lead.. than it is for a 23 point lead...

and the cavs have done this twice so far...
all i'm saying is that if they keep getting leads, and letting the opponent come back, it will hurt them.. and u should know this,.,

When have I failed to acknowledge it? Blowing a big lead is still blowing a big lead. Orlando is playing like they are on a mission. They may start slow, but they've been getting hot late in nearly every game. But it's either they're blowing a big lead, or blowing up the oppositions big lead in the playoffs. That's the biggest problem with a 3-point team.

God forbid that Lebrons supporting cast play like they did during the regular season though...becuase if Delonte/Mo can pickup their game a little bit more, these aren't contests. Credit to Orlando's defense (because they have played well) but the Cavs supporting cast has as much blame on themselves as Orlando's defense deserves credit.

The Cavs have blown two leads in the playoffs and have 1 loss. How have the other teams left done to this point? They've all had some adversity. This just so happens to be the first that Cleveland has faced. We didn't fare so well in the first game...and did just enough in the second. Whether you win by 1 or 40, it's a win. Whether you lose by 1 or 40, it's still a loss.

At the end of it all, the only thing that matters is who is holding up the championship. How they played along the way will likely be forgotten soon enough.

lilyoder6
05-23-2009, 10:32 AM
and i'm saying that they are not going to be holding up a championship if they are going to let teams come back in..

and i agree.. that the supporting cast for the cavs must went on vacation so far for these series.. mo has had some nice shots, but not like the 1st 2 series...

xfl2001fan
05-23-2009, 10:40 AM
Who is going to be holding up the championship trophy? The Cavs got to that 23 point lead and needed that 23 point lead in order to win it this last game.

The only team to not have a big lead in the series (to this point) is the Magic. Denver blew a big lead and lost. LA blew a big lead and lost.

Orlando never had a big lead.

The only thing that matters is winning. Win big, win small, it's still a win. However, Orlando has proven that it can score big...but is just as capable of digging itself into a big hole. You can't win a championship if you are going to constantly dig yourself into a big hole.

By all reasoning, after 2 games (in each series) not one team is title worthy. They've all made some big mistakes that championship teams aren't supposed to do.

Boston struggled last year playing several lengthy series before hosting the trophy. What are the odds that Orlando's shooters keep shooting lights out and the Cavs shooters keep shooting so poorly over the course of the rest of the series? A regression to the mean for Orlando coupled with a rise to the mean for Cleveland means these games aren't even close.

SteelersinCA
05-23-2009, 11:58 AM
Or you could say they are all title worthy and there are 4 great teams playing. Just because you don't blow someone out or sweep them doesn't mean you aren't title worthy.

The same thing you say about the Cavs could be said about the Lakers, bear in mind. The rest of the Lakers starting 5 ain't doing squat, and only in game 1 did the bench do anything. So far for the Lakers AND the Cavs it's been all Kobe and Lebron. Neither will hoist the trophy like that.

xfl2001fan
05-23-2009, 12:12 PM
Or you could say they are all title worthy and there are 4 great teams playing. Just because you don't blow someone out or sweep them doesn't mean you aren't title worthy.

The same thing you say about the Cavs could be said about the Lakers, bear in mind. The rest of the Lakers starting 5 ain't doing squat, and only in game 1 did the bench do anything. So far for the Lakers AND the Cavs it's been all Kobe and Lebron. Neither will hoist the trophy like that.

That's actually the point I was making. He's trying to discount the Cavs for our performance...but each series is tied up at 1-1, with three teams having blown big leads and one team having to scramble back from big defecits.

If the Cavs aren't going to win a championship based on how they've played, then none of the other teams will be able to either...because it's been two equally matched series.

Whomever wins these two series will likely have earned it through blood sweat and tears in 7 hard fought games`.

lilyoder6
05-23-2009, 02:52 PM
That's actually the point I was making. He's trying to discount the Cavs for our performance...but each series is tied up at 1-1, with three teams having blown big leads and one team having to scramble back from big defecits.

If the Cavs aren't going to win a championship based on how they've played, then none of the other teams will be able to either...because it's been two equally matched series.

Whomever wins these two series will likely have earned it through blood sweat and tears in 7 hard fought games`.

rly.. i never said i was discounting what the cavs did
all i said is that if they are going to keep blowing 20 point leads it will hurt them.. which is a concern for them i bet.. i would bet that mike brown is harping on this in the meetings
don't know how that statement turns out to me saying that i am discounting the cavs performance :noidea:

lilyoder6
05-23-2009, 02:56 PM
msn did an article bout the 4 teams and what they are doing good and what they are not doing good..

and this is from the cavs not doing good section.. and it's funny but true

After every catch, Varejao shouldn't be allowed to dribble the ball more than once.

one from the lakers
The FBI should be called in to find Sasha Vujacic's lost jumper.

lilyoder6
05-23-2009, 06:38 PM
on a side note..

i would like to see phil go with a line up with
bynum, gasol, odom, trevor, and kobe...

i would think that, this line could do some harm, esp in the rebound game

xfl2001fan
05-23-2009, 07:02 PM
on a side note..

i would like to see phil go with a line up with
bynum, gasol, odom, trevor, and kobe...

i would think that, this line could do some harm, esp in the rebound game

How do the defensive matchups work though? That's a solid offense...and very big.

lilyoder6
05-23-2009, 07:30 PM
How do the defensive matchups work though? That's a solid offense...and very big.

well if they would go starting lineup

SG K. Bryant SG D. Jones
SF T. Ariza PG C. Billups
FC P. Gasol PF K. Martin
SF L. Odom SF C. Anthony
C A. Bynum C N. Hilario


ariza is a big, but he not like huge to where he can't cover a lil man.. he did cover billups somewhat in game 1.. and got that steal...

basically ariza would just take fisher's spot and odom goes back into his role...
and kobe does like to roam on defense, if he does not have to defend a star

u could switch ariza and kobe if billups is killing u..

the only thing bad about this line-up would be, that would be able to use it at an excessive amount.. they would get tired, and outside of those 4, who they rly have has a big.. mmbenga or w/e his name is.. haha.. joke,,

it would rly rely on how good each big man is with endurance..

xfl2001fan
05-23-2009, 07:33 PM
well if they would go starting lineup

SG K. Bryant SG D. Jones
SF T. Ariza PG C. Billups
FC P. Gasol PF K. Martin
SF L. Odom SF C. Anthony
C A. Bynum C N. Hilario


ariza is a big, but he not like huge to where he can't cover a lil man.. he did cover billups somewhat in game 1.. and got that steal...

basically ariza would just take fisher's spot and odom goes back into his role...
and kobe does like to roam on defense, if he does not have to defend a star

u could switch ariza and kobe if billups is killing u..

I would probably switch Kobe and Ariza from the get go...Billups doesn't normally get hot early...which allows for Kobe to focus more on offense in the early going...maybe get a big lead. Can Odom "contain" Anthony without getting into foul trouble?

lilyoder6
05-23-2009, 07:37 PM
and.. i'm just gonna say.. that fisher has that shot release that is noticable from anywhere.. lol

lilyoder6
05-23-2009, 07:41 PM
I would probably switch Kobe and Ariza from the get go...Billups doesn't normally get hot early...which allows for Kobe to focus more on offense in the early going...maybe get a big lead. Can Odom "contain" Anthony without getting into foul trouble?

that would depend on how the other bigs,, gasol and bynum collaspe the paint and help out...

odom does move nicely for his size, i think he can hold his own, but would neep help on occassion

the real ? would that can dum-dum bynum stay out of foul trouble

and that is true... billups scored 20 of his 27 in the 2nd half of game 2...

if phil and the lakers were able to pull this off.. even for a good 5 min rotation.. i think it would be a nice offense...
it's like the opposite of what teams do, they go small with the shooters to catch up, where the lakers go big and kill u in the paint and atking the boards

b/c would still have ariza and odom who can somewhat shoot the 3..

lilyoder6
05-23-2009, 07:43 PM
and i would say.. that bynum needs to learn how to do a hook shot.. he needs to learn from gasol

xfl2001fan
05-23-2009, 07:52 PM
and that is true... billups scored 20 of his 27 in the 2nd half of game 2...
Yeah, I've watched my team deal with Billups for far too long. He tests the defense early and attacks late. Give him some looks early in the game and then switch it up late...he's smart enough to read nearly every defense you throw at him...but that split second hesitation is all most NBA players need to make a big play defensively.

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 01:12 AM
Clutch = "Kobe does that time and time and time and time and time again for game winners," Odom said of Bryant's 3-pointer. "It is routine -- for him."

xfl2001fan
05-24-2009, 06:19 AM
He put them up by 1 with 1:10 left...and it's a game winner? Did the game stop after that point?

Yes, it gave the Lakers the lead (in a back and forth game) and yes it was the last time that Denver lost the lead, but with how Denver's defense played (which is directly related to Lakers offense) after that point, all those other shots made that the Lakers hit (and that Denver couldn't hit) were a part of it.

This is the kind of BS that I refer to when I talk about hype. It's a GREAT shot...but it's not a game winner...because eventually, Denver would go on to score 97 points (which was one more than that shot gave LA.)

lilyoder6
05-24-2009, 09:15 AM
but after that 3 pt shot. he went on to make the FT..

the 3pt shot might of not been the game winner, but it was a dagger to the heart, and then the FT he made following the shot to seal the game, was just pushing that dagger deeper..

btw.. he did make that shot at an weird angle and nothing but net, that scary/.. but the best part was when he did his "face look" hahaha

xfl2001fan
05-24-2009, 10:26 AM
I didn't realize he got fouled, fell asleep watching the game. Regardless, then they were up by 2 with 1:09 left...which is PLENTY of time to score. It may have been a "dagger" but only if Denver let it be so. The real dagger came when Melo fouled out on a stupid inbound play.

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 08:10 PM
It doesn't have to be a buzzer beater to be a game winner. For as much hype as you complain about there is an equal amount of HATE going around. Fact.

lilyoder6
05-24-2009, 10:40 PM
well.. i would have to say that this game tonight was long as shit.. i did not expect to see any of it.. but i got to see the last min...

so i'm not going to be able to discuss this game, except the foul out by howard looked like he had all ball,

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 10:41 PM
Orlando played like poop still won by 10. All you need to know.

lilyoder6
05-24-2009, 10:43 PM
WOW...
just looked at the box score.. and THAT is horrific.. i mean west and mo, helped a lil.. but other than that
U only have 4 other ppl score and 3 OF THEM ONLY scored 4 points.. WOW..

xfl2001fan
05-24-2009, 10:46 PM
Orlando played like poop still won by 10. All you need to know.

James supporting cast shot 18-50...it's going to take more than Lebron to beat this team in the Playoffs. And most of those were wide open jumpers. We got outcoached again...because for some reason, Brown doesn't realize that Z/Varejao combo doesn't work against this team...we need to play small.

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 10:47 PM
Like I said Orlando played just as bad, Hedo went 1-12 from the floor.

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 10:49 PM
James supporting cast shot 18-50...it's going to take more than Lebron to beat this team in the Playoffs. And most of those were wide open jumpers. We got outcoached again...because for some reason, Brown doesn't realize that Z/Varejao combo doesn't work against this team...we need to play small.

James shot worse than 18-50 percentage wise, 18-50 is 36% 12-36 is 33%, maybe James should shoot better???? :hunch:

xfl2001fan
05-24-2009, 10:57 PM
James shot worse than 18-50 percentage wise, 18-50 is 36% 12-36 is 33%, maybe James should shoot better???? :hunch:

Well, since James shot 11 of 28 (39.3%), I would think that he wasn't the biggest issue. Mo Williams and Z need to shoot better. (Three point shots are included in the FG attempted/made).

lilyoder6
05-24-2009, 10:58 PM
i feel bad for the magic pg,, the one thats injured.. uhh.. whats his name???

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 10:59 PM
Well, since James shot 11 of 28 (39.3%), I would think that he wasn't the biggest issue. Mo Williams and Z need to shoot better. (Three point shots are included in the FG attempted/made).

Are or are not, cause lebron hurt the 3pt% and the FT% But why don't you want to look at the total shooting? You feel better just looking at FG% or what? Easy to blame the rest of the team when you're a lebron fan I guess. He shot worse than they did, especially when you factor in he's the go to guy. They expect him to make shots, no one expects West, williams to do much. When your team lives and dies by James, which they do, he is always the biggest issue/reason.

xfl2001fan
05-24-2009, 11:05 PM
Are or are not, cause lebron hurt the 3pt% and the FT% But why don't you want to look at the total shooting? You feel better just looking at FG% or what? Easy to blame the rest of the team when you're a lebron fan I guess. He shot worse than they did.

3 pointers are included. His three point percentage was terrible...he took several stupid shots...and struggled to get into an offensive rhythm as a shooter. Then again, he still managed 41 points despite his struggles. His team still failed to produce anything of importance...and he needed those guys. Of the other Cavs not named Lebron, only Delonte was worth anything out there.

xfl2001fan
05-24-2009, 11:06 PM
i feel bad for the magic pg,, the one thats injured.. uhh.. whats his name???

You talking about Jameer Nelson...or that guy Pietrus who looked like he hurt his back on a hard foul (by West) in the open court.

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 11:08 PM
3 pointers are included. His three point percentage was terrible...he took several stupid shots...and struggled to get into an offensive rhythm as a shooter. Then again, he still managed 41 points despite his struggles. His team still failed to produce anything of importance...and he needed those guys. Of the other Cavs not named Lebron, only Delonte was worth anything out there.

11-28 does not include his 3PT% check the box score again. James shot worse than the rest of the team.

lilyoder6
05-24-2009, 11:09 PM
You talking about Jameer Nelson...or that guy Pietrus who looked like he hurt his back on a hard foul (by West) in the open court.

jameer nelson is the one i'm talking about... he is a rly good pg for them, they did find a nice replacement from houston..

oh well.. he has to be happy the team is winning

lilyoder6
05-24-2009, 11:11 PM
3 pointers are included. His three point percentage was terrible...he took several stupid shots...and struggled to get into an offensive rhythm as a shooter. Then again, he still managed 41 points despite his struggles. His team still failed to produce anything of importance...and he needed those guys. Of the other Cavs not named Lebron, only Delonte was worth anything out there.

mo had 15 points.. and outside of him and west.. Z had 9 points, and then only 3 other ppl score.. and all 3 score only 4 points.. that is horseshit.. lol...

and 18 points from FT shooting is not bad..

lilyoder6
05-24-2009, 11:13 PM
11-28 does not include his 3PT% check the box score again. James shot worse than the rest of the team.

ummm... the 3pt shots, are included in the FG made and attempts...

b/c if u would add his 18 points from the FT, and the 22 (11*2) plus 1 3 pt shot.. that would equal 43 points.. but he got 41 points

xfl2001fan
05-24-2009, 11:16 PM
11-28 does not include his 3PT% check the box score again. James shot worse than the rest of the team.

You know what, I am wrong. I always thought they included it and did a breakout for three pointers so you could see the difference.

In that case,

12 of 36 for James (33%)

22 of 68 for his team. 32.3%

While he wasn't helping their cause (much), they weren't doing anything to help him either. And the team (minus Lebron) still shot worse.

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 11:17 PM
My bad, he still shot like doo doo :poop:

lilyoder6
05-24-2009, 11:19 PM
You know what, I am wrong. I always thought they included it and did a breakout for three pointers so you could see the difference.

In that case,

12 of 36 for James (33%)

22 of 68 for his team. 32.3%

While he wasn't helping their cause (much), they weren't doing anything to help him either. And the team (minus Lebron) still shot worse.

u were right..

and there was no help from any cav.. mo and west did a decent job.. but evryone else was SHIT

xfl2001fan
05-24-2009, 11:20 PM
My bad, he still shot like doo doo :poop:

Still did better than his team, still scored 41 points. You're the one who (earlier) said that points are points. He's scoring, his teammates aren't. You can't win anything outside of the regular season if your team isn't helping.

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 11:22 PM
Still did better than his team, still scored 41 points. You're the one who (earlier) said that points are points. He's scoring, his teammates aren't. You can't win anything outside of the regular season and series against the Pistons and Hawks if your team isn't helping.

Hey if you're going to shoot 19 shots less than the rest of your team I expect you to have an equal proportion of the points which he did, 39% ain't much better than 36%, but you are right it is more. Starting to feel like every other playoff year in Cleveland huh?

xfl2001fan
05-24-2009, 11:23 PM
Hey if you're going to shoot 19 shots less than the rest of your team I expect you to have an equal proportion of the points which he did, 39% ain't much better than 36%, but you are right it is more. Starting to feel like every other playoff year in Cleveland huh?

This was the one team that I feared in the playoffs. The matchups are all wrong for us.

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 11:24 PM
This was the one team that I feared in the playoffs. The matchups are all wrong for us.

As a Lakers fan, it's the only team I fear too.

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 11:28 PM
By the way, Mo WIlliams sounds like he's punch drunk, I can't believe the verbal diarrhea coming from his mouth.

lilyoder6
05-24-2009, 11:30 PM
orlando would be scary for anyone.. b/c they have the best big man in the game in dwight howard,, and it's seems evryone not name howard can shoot the 3

SteelersinCA
05-24-2009, 11:34 PM
Howard has played like below standard with the exception of the first half of game 1 as well.

lilyoder6
05-24-2009, 11:52 PM
lebron saying that they fatigued, but it ain't an excuse..

umm.. yinz had a whole week of to rest, u should not be as tired as the magic

MACH1
05-25-2009, 12:32 AM
Fatigued? Please, they had a whole week of rest! It's not like they had to play a game 7 and turn around and play two days later.

tony hipchest
05-25-2009, 12:47 AM
yeah, i dont wanna hear no fatigue BS either.

i must say i am pleasantly shocked with the cleveland james' dropping 2 of the 1st 3. i never saw that coming. theyre very fortunate its not 3-0.

although the NBA would hate it (and would never allow it to happen), i would have no problem with a rating killing matchup of denver vs. orlando.

howard was completely robbed on that block of james' jumper.

james was given the benefit of the doubt with that block that was in the cylinder.

whether its a team i root for, or not, i HATE when the nba darlings are given the benefit of the calls.

xfl2001fan
05-25-2009, 07:27 AM
I didn't stay up to watch the interviews, did Lebron really use the Fatigue excuse? Him, maybe...because he's played a lot of games these past few season. But Mo, Delonte and company? I'm not buying it.

Tony - Gotta agree with you on the two "blocks". (I assume you are referring to James uncalled goaltending when he came from behind in the 1st quarter and knocked the ball away.)

Still, at the end of the day, I think the Refs are just bad all around...and not just in favor of one team or another. Saw several uncalled travels for each team.

lilyoder6
05-25-2009, 09:39 AM
I didn't stay up to watch the interviews, did Lebron really use the Fatigue excuse? Him, maybe...because he's played a lot of games these past few season. But Mo, Delonte and company? I'm not buying it.

Tony - Gotta agree with you on the two "blocks". (I assume you are referring to James uncalled goaltending when he came from behind in the 1st quarter and knocked the ball away.)

Still, at the end of the day, I think the Refs are just bad all around...and not just in favor of one team or another. Saw several uncalled travels for each team.

the other one, i think he is talking about is when howard fouled out, and lebron had 2 shoot 3 FT's...

and i agree.... the Refs blow in these finals this yr... so many fouls not being called... to many shit fouls being called... it's all over the place

xfl2001fan
05-25-2009, 10:35 AM
the other one, i think he is talking about is when howard fouled out, and lebron had 2 shoot 3 FT's...

and i agree.... the Refs blow in these finals this yr... so many fouls not being called... to many shit fouls being called... it's all over the place

Tony mentioned two blocks, one by James and one by Howard. I knew about the one that Howard fouled out in...I was questioning whether he and I were in agreement that James 1st block (1st quarter) was really an uncalled goaltend.

SteelersinCA
05-25-2009, 11:24 AM
I saw a bunch of travels too, it was kind of like, really we're going to allow 4 steps tonight huh? I ahve to say this, I'll give credit for Lebron for putting the ball in the hope, but when he drove the lane last night it was plain ugly, bowling over people it was just sheer strength, no finesse at all, but like I said ball in hoop.

xfl2001fan
05-25-2009, 12:00 PM
I saw a bunch of travels too, it was kind of like, really we're going to allow 4 steps tonight huh? I ahve to say this, I'll give credit for Lebron for putting the ball in the hope, but when he drove the lane last night it was plain ugly, bowling over people it was just sheer strength, no finesse at all, but like I said ball in hoop.

When you're missing your J's...finesse goes out the window, do what you got to, to keep the score close and hope one of your teammates gets hot.

tony hipchest
05-25-2009, 12:10 PM
the other one, i think he is talking about is when howard fouled out, and lebron had 2 shoot 3 FT's...

and i agree.... the Refs blow in these finals this yr... so many fouls not being called... to many shit fouls being called... it's all over the place

Tony mentioned two blocks, one by James and one by Howard. I knew about the one that Howard fouled out in...I was questioning whether he and I were in agreement that James 1st block (1st quarter) was really an uncalled goaltend.you both nailed the exact 2 plays i was talking about.

im not even complaining about james not being called for the goal tend. it was a spectacular play where he showed his blazing speed and charged down the length of the court. he did the exact same thing earlier the series.

my beef was howard making the same type of spectacular play and when there was no doubt it was clean, still getting the whistle.

even the TNT crew was puzzled by the reffing (which i admit, has always been crap). i dont even worry about travelling no more. im more pissed when they DO call it, because everyone knows you can take three steps, skip, hop, and then lunge with the ball in your hands.

but i think howard has earned the status where he can "just play" like the other superstars.

btw, reggie miller is doing a kick ass job in the studio.

xfl2001fan
05-25-2009, 12:16 PM
Tony - You ought to know by now that "Bigs" don't really count as superstars...even if Howard has an athletic dominance not seen in over 20 years from a Big.