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lilyoder6
06-05-2009, 08:37 AM
As i said in my other post, congrats to Kobe! He finally put up as many points in a game as LBJ was averaging...

and how did that avg work out for lebron???

xfl2001fan
06-05-2009, 09:00 AM
and how did that avg work out for lebron???

Considering how his teammates played, it wasn't too bad. If not for what he was averaging...the games would never have gotten past 6 games.

revefsreleets
06-05-2009, 09:19 AM
It's funny how the team performance matters when you bring up LBJ's stats, but the team performance doesn't seem to matter when you bring up Kobe's. This thread is ABOUT individual performance. The other thread is about the teams.

I wasn't aware that the Lakers won the whole thing after one game. If Kobe scores 50 points a game, averages 10 assists and 15 boards a game, and the Lakers lose 4-1, will HIS performance "not count"?

SteelersinCA
06-05-2009, 11:19 AM
It's funny how the team performance matters when you bring up LBJ's stats, but the team performance doesn't seem to matter when you bring up Kobe's. This thread is ABOUT individual performance. The other thread is about the teams.

I wasn't aware that the Lakers won the whole thing after one game. If Kobe scores 50 points a game, averages 10 assists and 15 boards a game, and the Lakers lose 4-1, will HIS performance "not count"?

You know it won't matter to Kobe. I think it doesn't really matter in the discussion either. I think championships bring players to a whole different level.

SteelersinCA
06-05-2009, 12:13 PM
By the way XFL, I know I said magic's opinion didn't really matter to me , but you said when a HOFer talks you listen. Magic said in his interview with Kobe aired last night during halftime that Kobe was the best player in the world. Thought you would be interested.

revefsreleets
06-05-2009, 12:20 PM
I would hope he'd say that...he WAS an ex-Laker. He's not (gasp!) biased or anything...

SteelersinCA
06-05-2009, 03:30 PM
Actually XFL posted something he said about Lebron to use in this discussion and said Magic had value, I discounted his opinion but XFL said his opinion had merit.

MACH1
06-05-2009, 06:36 PM
Unbelievable, all the kobe hate. :rolleyes:

Yes he is the best player on the planet!

Steel_12
06-05-2009, 06:41 PM
Was that before or after he demanded that the Lakers put better players around him? Before or after he had a temper tantrum and demanded a trade?

Can't recall...

And they've been in 2 finals back to back because of that...how you can blame somebody for wanting to win makes no sense.

Steel_12
06-05-2009, 06:44 PM
Even the announcers on during the game said he didn't have to play a lot of defense...but was instead able to conserve energy for the offensive end. Must be nice.

Not that Forbes means much...but since it's just dollars and cents that they are discussing:

Kobe got paid 21M in salary, which means that he's got 24M in endorsements.

Lebron is getting 14M in salary which means he's getting 26M in endorsements.

Lebron can't help the way that the salary cap is set up the way that he is...but Kobe is getting paid more based on time in the league...Lebron is being paid as much as he can and still makes more in endorsements (despite the fact that his Microsoft endorsement ended last year.)

I don't want to assume...what did you mean by Must be nice?

Steel_12
06-05-2009, 06:45 PM
As i said in my other post, congrats to Kobe! He finally put up as many points in a game as LBJ was averaging...

81 points...tell LBJ to come within 20 of that

Steel_12
06-05-2009, 06:48 PM
By the way XFL, I know I said magic's opinion didn't really matter to me , but you said when a HOFer talks you listen. Magic said in his interview with Kobe aired last night during halftime that Kobe was the best player in the world. Thought you would be interested.

lol he also said Kobe was Bird's favorite player...guess that means nothing too since he was a Laker...oops, he was a Celtic...he's biased like Magic, huh revefsreleets? :blah:

40, 8 and 8 in the finals...GREAT performance!

xfl2001fan
06-05-2009, 07:18 PM
I don't want to assume...what did you mean by Must be nice?

While Lebron was averaging 38, 8 and 8...he still spent the majority of this time covering 2 of the Magics 3 best players. He didn't have the luxury of paying less attention on defense to conserve energy for offense.

That being said, 40, 8 and 8 is a great game by the 2nd best player in the NBA. :flap:

MACH1
06-05-2009, 07:38 PM
While Lebron was averaging 38, 8 and 8...he still spent the majority of this time covering 2 of the Magics 3 best players. He didn't have the luxury of paying less attention on defense to conserve energy for offense.

That being said, 40, 8 and 8 is a great game by the 2nd best player in the NBA. :flap:

The second best player in the NBA went LeFishing. :laughing:
The best is still playing.

revefsreleets
06-06-2009, 08:51 AM
Kobe had a LBJ-type game, but it was only one game.

Let's see if he can keep that up throughout the whole series...

Steel_12
06-06-2009, 02:56 PM
While Lebron was averaging 38, 8 and 8...he still spent the majority of this time covering 2 of the Magics 3 best players. He didn't have the luxury of paying less attention on defense to conserve energy for offense.

That being said, 40, 8 and 8 is a great game by the 2nd best player in the NBA. :flap:

I figured that's what you meant...When was LeBron on Turk? He guarded Lewis most of the time. Plus, Cleveland had the best defense in the NBA...why was he trying to do too much? Seems to me he didn't trust his teammates on defense if you think he had to cover 2 of their players. I know they sucked on offense but the major reason they won 66 games was because of TEAM defense.

lol...even Lil Wayne agrees the Kobe is the best hooper in the world...so you know it's true :thumbsup:

SteelersinCA
06-08-2009, 12:29 AM
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revefsreleets
06-08-2009, 08:51 AM
His numbers are sliding down...29 points, 8 assists, and 4 boards...

lilyoder6
06-08-2009, 10:32 AM
His numbers are sliding down...29 points, 8 assists, and 4 boards...

and the wins keep stacking... but i wouldn't think lebron would know of that

revefsreleets
06-08-2009, 10:46 AM
Again, that's irrelevant. This is Kobe v Lebron, not Cavs v Lakers.

Since they aren't playing each other, we can only compare stat lines.

After 2 games (averages) against exact competition:
LBJ 42 points, 5 boards, 6.5 assists
Kobe 34.5 points, 6 boards and 8 assists.

MACH1
06-08-2009, 12:44 PM
The most important stat.

Kobe 2-0 in the FINALS

LBJ sofa surfing

Steel Head
06-08-2009, 01:15 PM
I changed my mind, Kobe is better than Lebron. Kobe is about to win a championship again while Lebron is pouting like a baby

I think Lebron needs to get out of Loserville (aka Cleveland) before he wins a title

SteelersinCA
06-08-2009, 01:19 PM
Again, that's irrelevant. This is Kobe v Lebron, not Cavs v Lakers.

Since they aren't playing each other, we can only compare stat lines.

After 2 games (averages) against exact competition:
LBJ 42 points, 5 boards, 6.5 assists
Kobe 34.5 points, 6 boards and 8 assists.

Don't forget that Kobe is doing it in the finals. It is isn't EXACTLY the same, only 3 other people have scored 40+pts in the Finals and LBJ isn't one of them.

xfl2001fan
06-08-2009, 01:30 PM
I figured that's what you meant...When was LeBron on Turk? He guarded Lewis most of the time. Plus, Cleveland had the best defense in the NBA...why was he trying to do too much? Seems to me he didn't trust his teammates on defense if you think he had to cover 2 of their players. I know they sucked on offense but the major reason they won 66 games was because of TEAM defense. What games were you watching in the Orlando series? Lebron covered Turk...he only covered Lewis when Cleveland went with their "small" lineup and Lebron was playing the 4.

It wasn't that he didn't trust his teammates, he didn't cover 2 players at the same time...so that comment is too far out there. I don't even know why I responded.

lol...even Lil Wayne agrees the Kobe is the best hooper in the world...so you know it's true :thumbsup:

Oh, well in that case...:flap:

SteelersinCA
06-08-2009, 01:38 PM
It's a good song, put it on your ipod.

xfl2001fan
06-08-2009, 01:51 PM
I changed my mind, Kobe is better than Lebron. Kobe is about to win a championship again while Lebron is pouting like a baby

I think Lebron needs to get out of Loserville (aka Cleveland) before he wins a title

Who's better:

Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Ariza, Fisher, Walton (etc...)

or

Z, Varejao, Williams, West (etc...)

Getting to a championship takes a team effort. Lebron can't help that his teammates failed to perform up to standard throughout the last series...but he sure as hell worked his ass off in those 6 games.

Steel Head
06-08-2009, 02:23 PM
Who's better:

Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Ariza, Fisher, Walton (etc...)

or

Z, Varejao, Williams, West (etc...)

Getting to a championship takes a team effort. Lebron can't help that his teammates failed to perform up to standard throughout the last series...but he sure as hell worked his ass off in those 6 games.

yes, Kobe has a better supporting cast than Lebron but it's not that great

If Cleveland can't get any good players to go there, Lebron should skip town

SteelersinCA
06-08-2009, 02:50 PM
He will skip town if that's the case. Not even the most ardent LBJ fan boys will deny that.

xfl2001fan
06-08-2009, 03:11 PM
He will skip town if that's the case. Not even the most ardent LBJ fan boys will deny that.

Even the Front Office knows they have to upgrade the talent to keep LBJ.

lilyoder6
06-08-2009, 08:29 PM
Who's better:

Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Ariza, Fisher, Walton (etc...)

or

Z, Varejao, Williams, West (etc...)

Getting to a championship takes a team effort. Lebron can't help that his teammates failed to perform up to standard throughout the last series...but he sure as hell worked his ass off in those 6 games.

but but.. the cavs had the best record in the nba

tony hipchest
06-08-2009, 09:54 PM
yes, Kobe has a better supporting cast than Lebron but it's not that great

:chuckle:

gasol- drafted 3rd overall by the hawks
odom- drafted 4th overall by the clippers
bryant- drafted 13th overall by the hornets

jerry west is no dummy.

tony hipchest
06-08-2009, 09:58 PM
It's a good song, put it on your ipod.

i'll have to clear some room...

pqDeKVEWnC0

:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

SteelersinCA
06-08-2009, 10:39 PM
your video link = fail, shaq rapping = fail

tony hipchest
06-08-2009, 11:00 PM
my bad.

tell us more about lil wayne and your ipod then...

:toofunny:

SteelersinCA
06-09-2009, 12:04 AM
Nah, I'll let the ABC announcers keep saying how Kobe is the best player in the world. You can put whatever you want on your ipod.

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-09-2009, 12:23 AM
:chuckle:

gasol- drafted 3rd overall by the hawks
odom- drafted 4th overall by the clippers
bryant- drafted 13th overall by the hornets

jerry west is no dummy.

Yeah, and LBJ is playing with:
-an extra from "the Munsters" at center
-Krusty the clown at the 4
- and a bunch of guys like Williams, Gibson, Wallace, West and Szerbiak that went missing in the playoffs.

Honestly, I thought I saw the 2009 Cleveland Cavs team photo on a milk carton.

James is hands down the best player, but he needs a wingman like Pippen to Jordan, Kareem or Worthy to Magic, McHale to Bird, Moses Malone to Dr. J, Shaq to Kobe, Wade to Shaq and the list goes on.

Steel Head
06-09-2009, 11:55 AM
:chuckle:

gasol- drafted 3rd overall by the hawks
odom- drafted 4th overall by the clippers
bryant- drafted 13th overall by the hornets

jerry west is no dummy.

who cares where they are drafted?

Odom is not that good and very inconsistent

Gasol is good but not an all-star

Steel Head
06-09-2009, 11:56 AM
Even the Front Office knows they have to upgrade the talent to keep LBJ.

why did those idiots ever get rid of Boozer?

revefsreleets
06-09-2009, 12:11 PM
Sometimes blind squirrels DO find nuts.

Boozer IS on the Cavs radar. They didn't "let him go", they released him from the last year of his contract in order so that he could sign their very fair 39 million dollar deal.

He promptly reneged, signed an offer sheet from Utah, and Cleveland couldn't match it because they were over the salary cap.

The fact that they'd consider taking back a player who totally screwed them over shows just how serious they are about winning a championship.

SteelersinCA
06-09-2009, 03:36 PM
You would want him back? Serious or desperate?

revefsreleets
06-09-2009, 03:43 PM
There's been talk. He HAS to have a big who can take a little pressure off him. I've heard Bosh, Rasheed Wallace, Boozer...hard to say what's real and what's just speculation, but I'm thinking part of keeping 'Bron in Cleveland is giving him the tools he needs to win. I thought Mo would be enough but he disappeared in the semi's...whe you get shut-down by Rafer Alston, you've officially disappeared....

tony hipchest
06-09-2009, 08:16 PM
who cares where they are drafted?

are you kidding me? you do know why professional sports leagues hold drafts right?

you do know that the lakers went out and traded for all three of these high 1st round draft picks, right?

yet youre gonna compare their talent to some scrubs the cavs field a team with? z and wallace might be adequate in this discussion if they were in the prime of their careers, but even then, to call it close is absurd.

lilyoder6
06-09-2009, 08:26 PM
are you kidding me? you do know why professional sports leagues hold drafts right?

you do know that the lakers went out and traded for all three of these high 1st round draft picks, right?

yet youre gonna compare their talent to some scrubs the cavs field a team with? z and wallace might be adequate in this discussion if they were in the prime of their careers, but even then, to call it close is absurd.

i know for a fact they basically robbed the grizzlies when they traded for gasol.. i mean wow, lakers ser robbed them..

lilyoder6
06-09-2009, 08:28 PM
There's been talk. He HAS to have a big who can take a little pressure off him. I've heard Bosh, Rasheed Wallace, Boozer...hard to say what's real and what's just speculation, but I'm thinking part of keeping 'Bron in Cleveland is giving him the tools he needs to win. I thought Mo would be enough but he disappeared in the semi's...whe you get shut-down by Rafer Alston, you've officially disappeared....

imo.. i think of the ones u just named... wallace would be the best bet.. u alrdy have lebron who atks the paint, so u wouldn't need another big who would be in the paint to get in lbj way...

thus leaves wallace, who has a nice perimeter shot and can score away from the paint... and when lbj is not in the game, wallace can still atk the paint when need be

tony hipchest
06-09-2009, 08:51 PM
i know for a fact they basically robbed the grizzlies when they traded for gasol.. i mean wow, lakers ser robbed them..:yep: i think so. could very well prove to be a champion calibur trade.

oh and i meant big ben in the above post, not r. wallace.

lilyoder6
06-10-2009, 01:54 AM
:yep: i think so. could very well prove to be a champion calibur trade.

oh and i meant big ben in the above post, not r. wallace.

oh.....

but i do think that rasheed is a FA this yr.. and still would be a good fit for the cavs.. lol

xfl2001fan
06-10-2009, 07:10 AM
are you kidding me? you do know why professional sports leagues hold drafts right?

you do know that the lakers went out and traded for all three of these high 1st round draft picks, right?

yet youre gonna compare their talent to some scrubs the cavs field a team with? z and wallace might be adequate in this discussion if they were in the prime of their careers, but even then, to call it close is absurd.

Where they're drafted is irrelevant. Only Kobe Bryant was traded for early on...Gasol had already proven to be a good inside presence...and I thought Lamar Odom came over in FA. Maybe I'm wrong. I honestly don't know. Regardless, he was also a proven veteran when he came to the Lakers...so his draft position (as well as Gasol's) is irrelevant.

xfl2001fan
06-10-2009, 07:19 AM
I seem to recall when Lebron had that ugly fourth quarter against Orlando, several Kobenites jumped his case.

just 10 points in the second half and went only 4 of 15 from the field after the first quarter. He also missed five free throws, points that could have given the Lakers that 3-0 lead.

That came from the game recap on ESPN.

Let me guess, it's OK for Kobe to have a crappy 2-4th quarter....but not for Lebron to have a so-so 4th quarter.

Just not on Tuesday night. This time, given a reprieve on the same play, given another chance on a night of several crunch-time mistakes, Bryant couldn't even maintain possession. After the foul he stomped around, nearly stepping on Gasol, whom he never did offer a hand. He didn't pick his teammates up, he let his teammates down, whatever direction you want to use it was appropriate. (From the Daily Dime)

So Lebron is a crybaby? He didn't talk to the guys who beat him (in a series where his teamamtes generally failed to show up)...Kobe ignored his own teammate because he was pouting so hard on the court...after he screwed the pooch.

Stomping around, my 3 year old does that when he throws a tantrum. Not my 30 year old...my 3 year old.

revefsreleets
06-10-2009, 09:13 AM
After 3 games against the same level of competition:

Kobe 33.3 PPG, 8 APG, 5 RPG

James 41.6 PPG, 7.3 APG, 5.3 RPG


So....um.....like....where is all this complete dominance by Kobe? I actually see LBJ's stat line as being better in 2 out of 3 categories, SIGNIFICANTLY higher points per game, and only .7 assists behind in the one category he's not leading.

Toss out the garbage argument that the Cavs are out of the playoffs (which is fine if you want to run with that in the NBA playoffs thread), and we have two players head-to-head against the exact same competition, and one clearly has better numbers than the other.

lilyoder6
06-10-2009, 11:09 AM
After 3 games against the same level of competition:

Kobe 33.3 PPG, 8 APG, 5 RPG

James 41.6 PPG, 7.3 APG, 5.3 RPG


So....um.....like....where is all this complete dominance by Kobe? I actually see LBJ's stat line as being better in 2 out of 3 categories, SIGNIFICANTLY higher points per game, and only .7 assists behind in the one category he's not leading.

Toss out the garbage argument that the Cavs are out of the playoffs (which is fine if you want to run with that in the NBA playoffs thread), and we have two players head-to-head against the exact same competition, and one clearly has better numbers than the other.

well like evryone else has said.. kobe has team-mates who can actually score..;. so kobe does not need to score 40+ points a game...
imo it's pointless to compare stats, b/c in lebron's case he has to do it all, and in kobe's case, he does not, he has gasol odom and fish who can score.. and at least 1 of them shows up evry game

Steel Head
06-10-2009, 11:21 AM
are you kidding me? you do know why professional sports leagues hold drafts right?.

so if the Cavs sign Kwamie Harris and Darko Milicic, what excuse will you use then?

stop whining

revefsreleets
06-10-2009, 11:31 AM
well like evryone else has said.. kobe has team-mates who can actually score..;. so kobe does not need to score 40+ points a game...
imo it's pointless to compare stats, b/c in lebron's case he has to do it all, and in kobe's case, he does not, he has gasol odom and fish who can score.. and at least 1 of them shows up evry game

I don't buy that argument...because if LBJ is a one-man team then they can double and triple down on him (which Orlando did ) which should make it harder to score more points, not easier.

The facts stand...this was the year the mantle was passed. Kobe WAS the best player in the NBA, now James is.

xfl2001fan
06-10-2009, 11:34 AM
well like evryone else has said.. kobe has team-mates who can actually score..;. so kobe does not need to score 40+ points a game...
imo it's pointless to compare stats, b/c in lebron's case he has to do it all, and in kobe's case, he does not, he has gasol odom and fish who can score.. and at least 1 of them shows up evry game

Why isn't Kobe destroying James on the assists then? Kobe gets 8 assists pere game with guys who can score consistently...Lebron gets 7.3 with guys who weren't scoring consistently.

Seems to me that's a point in Lebron's favor.

Kobe has guys that can actually score...meaning defenses can't key on him nearly as much. Lebron has to do it all...and does it. Another point in his favor.

SteelersinCA
06-10-2009, 12:07 PM
After 3 games against the same level of competition:

Kobe 33.3 PPG, 8 APG, 5 RPG

James 41.6 PPG, 7.3 APG, 5.3 RPG


So....um.....like....where is all this complete dominance by Kobe? I actually see LBJ's stat line as being better in 2 out of 3 categories, SIGNIFICANTLY higher points per game, and only .7 assists behind in the one category he's not leading.

Toss out the garbage argument that the Cavs are out of the playoffs (which is fine if you want to run with that in the NBA playoffs thread), and we have two players head-to-head against the exact same competition, and one clearly has better numbers than the other.

Like I said earlier it might be the same team they are facing but it is the finals. If it's all the same why have only 4 people in the history of the NBA scored 40+ pts in the finals? Kobe happens to be one of them.

revefsreleets
06-10-2009, 12:15 PM
I can't see how that's relevant. It's the talent level of these guys, not the name of the series.

But I get this...you're a Kobe supporter, so you gotta roll with what you can.

xfl2001fan
06-10-2009, 12:40 PM
Like I said earlier it might be the same team they are facing but it is the finals. If it's all the same why have only 4 people in the history of the NBA scored 40+ pts in the finals? Kobe happens to be one of them.

Nobody is questioning that Kobe is a talented scorer. There is more to basketball than scoring.

SteelersinCA
06-10-2009, 01:29 PM
I can't see how that's relevant. It's the talent level of these guys, not the name of the series.

But I get this...you're a Kobe supporter, so you gotta roll with what you can.

You can't see how it's relevant or you don't want to? It is a fact that only 4 people have ever done it, correct? If you want to look at it from a strictly #'s perspective there have been lots of teams that people have dropped 40 on in the playoffs, there have been lots of people that have dropped 40 in the playoffs. Those teams and players have been the finals, where only 4 people have ever scored 40 pts. Not to mention those 4 people have only done it ONCE a piece.

If you don't think the Finals, the Super Bowl, the World Series, etc are a different stage you're crazy. There is a reason it has only happened 4 times in the history of the NBA, the Finals are a different animal. I mean if we're just going to go by stat lines and how one person played against a different team then how can you think the Cavs stood a chance against the Lakers? The Lakers swept them in the regular season right? Why play the playoffs? It's just the same right?

By the way did the Cavs play the Magic with Jameer Nelson? Same talent level? Really? Take out an All-Star PG and it's the same talent level? Interesting.

SteelersinCA
06-10-2009, 01:31 PM
Nobody is questioning that Kobe is a talented scorer. There is more to basketball than scoring.

You miss the point entirely, Revs is comparing stat lines. Kobe is not averaging as many PPG as Lebron against the Magic, but beating him in the other 2 categories he lists. I'm saying you cant compare the stat lines because it's the finals. If anyone is advancing the scoring argument it's Revs.

revefsreleets
06-10-2009, 01:38 PM
LBJ is out-rebounding him as well. You do understand that makes it two out of 3 for LBJ, right? And on assists, after 3 games, Kobe is up by a whopping .7 APG? As already pointed out, if Kobe's talent around him makes sucha difference, he should be KILLING LBJ in that stat category. But he's not...

I DO think it makes a difference, too, what the name of the series is. If anything, I think Lebron, being the best player in basketball, possibly the best player ever, would have stepped it up even another level higher.

The name of the game does mean more to certain players. I think Kobe is playing at the highest level he can right now to prove a point. And his numbers aren't going to add up to Lebron's because he's simply not as complete of a player.

It's over for Kobe. He was. LBJ is. You'll eventually figure that out along with everyone else.

SteelersinCA
06-10-2009, 01:53 PM
I think Lebron, being the best player in basketball, possibly the best player ever, would have stepped it up even another level higher.



And we'll never know because he's watching like you and me, but what we do know is that Kobe is in ELITE company with the Logo, MJ and that fat slob Shaq as the only 4 people to drop 40+ in a Finals game.

revefsreleets
06-10-2009, 02:19 PM
I sincerely doubt that there are like hundreds of players who scored over 40 in the conference finals either. We already know nobody ever averaged 40 (like LBJ).

It doesn't really matter. Kobe needs to get his while he still can, and this is probably one of maybe 1-2 more chances for him. This is how he stacks up his legacy against the MJ's and Bird's and Magic's. LBJ has a LONG career ahead of him yet.

Steel_12
06-10-2009, 08:04 PM
:chuckle:

gasol- drafted 3rd overall by the hawks
odom- drafted 4th overall by the clippers
bryant- drafted 13th overall by the hornets

jerry west is no dummy.

Didn't Jerry West give Gasol to the Lakers for nothing?

lilyoder6
06-10-2009, 08:09 PM
Why isn't Kobe destroying James on the assists then? Kobe gets 8 assists pere game with guys who can score consistently...Lebron gets 7.3 with guys who weren't scoring consistently.

Seems to me that's a point in Lebron's favor.

Kobe has guys that can actually score...meaning defenses can't key on him nearly as much. Lebron has to do it all...and does it. Another point in his favor.

well thats when the triangle offense could come into play... they pass the ball around a lil bit more than the cavs do..

Steel_12
06-10-2009, 08:18 PM
I don't buy that argument...because if LBJ is a one-man team then they can double and triple down on him (which Orlando did ) which should make it harder to score more points, not easier.

The facts stand...this was the year the mantle was passed. Kobe WAS the best player in the NBA, now James is.

Orlando didn't double and triple until it was too late...they should've doubled him as soon as he touched it instead of letting him get in the lane and leaving their man. Ya'll are the only ones saying he is a one man team. That one man didn't win 66 games by himself in the regular season.

Fact is Kobe has 3 rings and is 2 wins away from a 4th while LeBron has none! The torch is passed when Kobe isn't on top anymore. Looks like he still is.

@XFL...Wilbon said, "Even Mariano Rivera blows saves"! Meaning the best closer doesn't do it every game. I don't recall saying he did. Either way, it doesn't happen often and you bet your kids that Kobe will redeem himself next game. LeBron hasn't been a closer in his short career so claiming he's the best really doesn't mean much. I'll take the guy who closes 17 out of 20 games rather than a guy who does it 5 out of 20. All of them big leads Cleveland gave up validates what I said.

Steel_12
06-10-2009, 08:21 PM
You can't see how it's relevant or you don't want to? It is a fact that only 4 people have ever done it, correct? If you want to look at it from a strictly #'s perspective there have been lots of teams that people have dropped 40 on in the playoffs, there have been lots of people that have dropped 40 in the playoffs. Those teams and players have been the finals, where only 4 people have ever scored 40 pts. Not to mention those 4 people have only done it ONCE a piece.

If you don't think the Finals, the Super Bowl, the World Series, etc are a different stage you're crazy. There is a reason it has only happened 4 times in the history of the NBA, the Finals are a different animal. I mean if we're just going to go by stat lines and how one person played against a different team then how can you think the Cavs stood a chance against the Lakers? The Lakers swept them in the regular season right? Why play the playoffs? It's just the same right?

By the way did the Cavs play the Magic with Jameer Nelson? Same talent level? Really? Take out an All-Star PG and it's the same talent level? Interesting.

LMAO...good points!

Steel_12
06-10-2009, 08:29 PM
LBJ is out-rebounding him as well. You do understand that makes it two out of 3 for LBJ, right? And on assists, after 3 games, Kobe is up by a whopping .7 APG? As already pointed out, if Kobe's talent around him makes sucha difference, he should be KILLING LBJ in that stat category. But he's not...

I DO think it makes a difference, too, what the name of the series is. If anything, I think Lebron, being the best player in basketball, possibly the best player ever, would have stepped it up even another level higher.

The name of the game does mean more to certain players. I think Kobe is playing at the highest level he can right now to prove a point. And his numbers aren't going to add up to Lebron's because he's simply not as complete of a player.

It's over for Kobe. He was. LBJ is. You'll eventually figure that out along with everyone else.

Again, the way LBJ has the ball in his hands more than Kobe he's supposed to have more dimes. It's not about the level of teammates, it's about the number of chances he has to make the pass. Kobe is changing his game to get those 8 assists because he's a pure SG. When he gets the ball, he's tryin to score. So him dishin out 8 dimes a game is very impressive! How can anybody not see that?

Ever? Let's at least wait til he's won't a ring (since that's what most Great players are judged by...not the Horry's or Kerr's of the NBA) or multiple MVPs or multiple scoring titles before you make that assumption.

lol it's over for Kobe? The man in the Finals? The man with the best team in the NBA? The man who can still put up 50 easily? It's over for him? lol WOW...

tony hipchest
06-10-2009, 09:36 PM
Didn't Jerry West give Gasol to the Lakers for nothing?

lol... no.

west was "retired' from the griz and a behind the scenes operator for the lakers when that trade went down.

he pretty much stole gasol from the griz for nothing.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

tony hipchest
06-10-2009, 09:42 PM
so if the Cavs sign Kwamie Harris and Darko Milicic, what excuse will you use then?

stop whining

great! now that we have established that you have no clue between the difference of established nba quality talent and a first round draft bust, what is your excuse for this lame and misinformed comment?

yes, Kobe has a better supporting cast than Lebron but it's not that great

:laughing:

stop being ignorant.

Steel Head
06-10-2009, 10:19 PM
great! now that we have established that you have no clue between the difference of established nba quality talent and a first round draft bust, what is your excuse for this lame and misinformed comment?

:laughing:

stop being ignorant.

whatever, keep crying about poor Lebron. you are probably the same type of person as he is, not man enough to shake your oppenent's hand at then end of the day

tony hipchest
06-10-2009, 11:08 PM
what i shake just left an apple shaped imprint on your cyber-forehead.

SteelersinCA
06-14-2009, 10:55 PM
They say stats aren't everything, but Kobe adds more to his collection:

1. Fourth player in NBA history to score 40 in a Finals game.
2. Third player in NBA history to average 30+pts and 8+ assts in the Finals.
3. Finals MVP.
4. 4th ring.

And as the announcers repeatedly stated, the best in the world.

There's always next year LBJ.

MACH1
06-14-2009, 11:05 PM
They say stats aren't everything, but Kobe adds more to his collection:

1. Fourth player in NBA history to score 40 in a Finals game.
2. Third player in NBA history to average 30+pts and 8+ assts in the Finals.
3. Finals MVP.
4. 4th ring.

And as the announcers repeatedly stated, the best in the world.

There's always next year LBJ.

And I'll add one more thing.

4 > 0

tony hipchest
06-14-2009, 11:16 PM
if labron were on the lakers they woulda beat the magic in 4...

:chuckle:

to give credit where credit is due, kobe is finally batman as opposed to robin.

MACH1
06-14-2009, 11:27 PM
The Cavs take the Magic in 6. Orlando is the second best team in the league this year, so you're watching the REAL finals starting tonight.

The real finals ended tonight. :flap:

At least you were right about one thing. The Magic are the 2nd place team.

SteelersinCA
06-15-2009, 02:32 AM
Kobe Bryant averaged 32.4 points and 7.4 assists per game against Orlando during the Finals. The only player to match or surpass Bryant's averages in each of those categories in an NBA Finals series was Jerry West, who averaged 37.9 points and 7.4 assists per game for the Lakers in their 1969 Finals loss to the Celtics. -Elias Sports Bureau.

lilyoder6
06-15-2009, 11:50 AM
where are the kobe haters at.. lol..

i'm suprised they didn't come on here and say that it wasn't kobe who won.. but something else...

revefsreleets
06-15-2009, 12:20 PM
Kobe is a great, great player.

Second best in the NBA.

Yeah, I was wrong about the Magic.

fansince'76
06-15-2009, 12:30 PM
And I'll add one more thing.

4 > 0

Are they gonna re-do the commercial with the "puppetized" Kobe and LeBron where Kobe gloats over his four championship rings? Gotta admit, that was a funny one. :chuckle:

lilyoder6
06-15-2009, 01:14 PM
Are they gonna re-do the commercial with the "puppetized" Kobe and LeBron where Kobe gloats over his four championship rings? Gotta admit, that was a funny one. :chuckle:

i was thinking that they were gonna do another puppet commercial...

like having kobe come home with the 4th ring and finals mvp and what not...

it be interesting to see if they do it and how they do it

xfl2001fan
06-15-2009, 01:41 PM
where are the kobe haters at.. lol..

i'm suprised they didn't come on here and say that it wasn't kobe who won.. but something else...

I don't deny that the 2nd best player in the league (Kobe) had better talent around him. I have never denied that...so I don't quite get where you're coming from with this statement.

MACH1
06-15-2009, 06:43 PM
Are they gonna re-do the commercial with the "puppetized" Kobe and LeBron where Kobe gloats over his four championship rings? Gotta admit, that was a funny one. :chuckle:

:laughing:

I kinda like the one where he's in two places at once. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
06-15-2009, 08:16 PM
where are the kobe haters at.. lol..

i'm suprised they didn't come on here and say that it wasn't kobe who won.. but something else...

what kobe haters?

you really didnt expect a bunch of nba fans to flock to a football board just because kobe was mentionned, did ya?

but here... i found a few for you-

www.celebrityrapists.com :chuckle:

i think anyone would be a fool to suggest the lakers coulda won that w/o kobe. not even close. he won and he earned it.

MACH1
06-15-2009, 08:52 PM
I don't deny that the 2nd best player in the league (Kobe) had better talent around him. I have never denied that...so I don't quite get where you're coming from with this statement.


4<0
Greatest player on the planet 4
Lecrybaby 0

Stats don't win championships.

tony hipchest
06-15-2009, 08:57 PM
Stats don't win championships. THATS RIGHT!

(...demanding a trade like Sheli Manning, does.) :sofunny:

i wonder where LeTrade's next stop will be...

SteelersinCA
06-15-2009, 09:26 PM
Eli demands a trade, wins title, Kobe demands trade, wins title, LBJ leaves Cleveland because they won't give him help, wins title. Common denominator?

tony hipchest
06-15-2009, 09:38 PM
. Common denominator?


:crying01:???

:hunch:

but LeCleveland is still there, last i heard. time will tell.

Steel_12
06-15-2009, 10:09 PM
LMAO...what's really funny is that all the HATERS said that he couldn't win the title without Shaq...Looks like LeBron can't win one without Shaq either LMAO!!!!

Kobe is the best in the world...top 5 all-time, top 2 shooting guards all-time. It's sad that some people can't admit it.

tony hipchest
06-15-2009, 10:41 PM
no... what is really funny is the most annoying thing about kobe is his fans.

they are clones of the tom brady, derrick jeter, jeff gordon, fans where the flavor of the week suddenly becomes the greatest of all time.

lilyoder6
06-16-2009, 12:15 AM
no... what is really funny is the most annoying thing about kobe is his fans.

they are clones of the tom brady, derrick jeter, jeff gordon, fans where the flavor of the week suddenly becomes the greatest of all time.

well i would say jeter is one of the best SS to play the game... maybe not best player but one of the best at his pos...

not rly a huge nascar fan.. but jeff is not a bad driver...


and whats funny is that lechoke still doesn't have a ring.. even tho "his" team had the best record in the nba... and he is supposingly the best player.. even tho.. most of the ppl who cover the nba say kobe's the best on the planet

SteelersinCA
06-16-2009, 12:15 AM
you're right, tom brady, derek jeter and jeff gordon are all flavors of the week, they haven't been at the top of their respective sports for that past several years. Excellent insight, keep it up!

tony hipchest
06-16-2009, 01:07 AM
Excellent insight, keep it up!

i will! thank you. :hatsoff:

when was the last time kobe was at the top of his respective sport?

just yesterday? lol. typical 'flavor of the week' clonespeak.

arent the yankees #1 right now?

wouldnt gordon have dozens of champs under the "old" scoring system?

isnt brady always the bestest and always ranked #1 when healthy?

doesnt kobes ass taste much more sweeter than shaqs?

i wouldnt know. perhaps you can tell me. :noidea:

:moon: :flap:

fansince'76
06-16-2009, 01:11 AM
isnt brady always the bestest and always ranked #1 when healthy?

Hell, he's ranked that when he's NOT healthy. :coffee:

lilyoder6
06-16-2009, 09:01 AM
i will! thank you. :hatsoff:

when was the last time kobe was at the top of his respective sport?

just yesterday? lol. typical 'flavor of the week' clonespeak.

arent the yankees #1 right now?

wouldnt gordon have dozens of champs under the "old" scoring system?

isnt brady always the bestest and always ranked #1 when healthy?

doesnt kobes ass taste much more sweeter than shaqs?

i wouldnt know. perhaps you can tell me. :noidea:

:moon: :flap:


they been talking about kobe bein the best for a while now... just not this post-season or "last week"

revefsreleets
06-16-2009, 09:28 AM
I think the real reason Lebron is obviously the best player in the game is a longer-term type deal, a "big picture" aspect to his game. LBJ is literally changing he way the game is played.

There are lots of players who can score. There always were. Anyone can run down the floor and toss up a lot of shots (aka the Allen Iverson method) in order to score a ton of points. That's exactly how Kobe scored 81 in a game. LBJ will never aim for that.

What he's done is brought team play back. I, for one, was getting bored stupid watch the NBA become a two-dimensional game where little defense was played, the slum dunk was king and the 3 was prince. Skills like passing were secondary, and it was all about scoring, dunking and looking good while you selfishly "got yours".

LBJ brought teamwork back. He's making assists sexy again. Playing defense can be flashy (just watch Lebron on one of his patented run-down rejections). He's demonstrating that a player can be great by concentration on all dimensions of the game, having great floor awareness, snagging boards, blocking shots, playing D, setting up teammates, playing good team ball, and, yes, even knocking down tre's and dunking on occasion.

Playing hard in all facets of the game, making yourself a complete player, putting the team first. These are the things that make a great player perhaps the greatest ever. It's why MJ will ALWAYS overshadow Kobe. And it's why LBJ has a chance to be the greatest ever.

People forget that Jordan was 28 before he won his first title. LBJ just turned 24. He'll get his...

xfl2001fan
06-16-2009, 10:09 AM
4<0
Greatest player on the planet 0
Whiny-cheating-throw-people-under-the-bus 4

Stats don't win championships.

Individuals don't win championships, teams do.

Why do you think MJ didn't win anything without Pippen? It wasn't because he was better with Pippen than he was without...it's because talent was brought in around him to make Chicago a better more dominant team. He didn't suddenly become a great player...he was already playing at a high level. It's amazing how easily everyone wants to overlook that facet. One player has NEVER won a championship, no matter how good he was. Never has happened, never will happen.

xfl2001fan
06-16-2009, 10:11 AM
Kobe is the best in the world
2nd best actually
...top 5 all-time,
Doubtful
top 2 shooting guards all-time.
Possibly
It's sad that some people can't admit it.
I'll agree it's sad that you can't admit these truths.

MACH1
06-16-2009, 10:57 AM
Individuals don't win championships, teams do.

Why do you think MJ didn't win anything without Pippen? It wasn't because he was better with Pippen than he was without...it's because talent was brought in around him to make Chicago a better more dominant team. He didn't suddenly become a great player...he was already playing at a high level. It's amazing how easily everyone wants to overlook that facet. One player has NEVER won a championship, no matter how good he was. Never has happened, never will happen.

And the REAL MVP won some more bling.

4>0 : 15>0

Most importantly 6>0

See the recurring theme there.

revefsreleets
06-16-2009, 11:07 AM
The argument didn't fly, and it still doesn't.

Otherwise we have:
Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino
Pat Burrell > Ted Williams
Dennis Rodman > Karl Malone

Faulty logic.

lilyoder6
06-16-2009, 11:52 AM
LBJ brought teamwork back. He's making assists sexy again. Playing defense can be flashy (just watch Lebron on one of his patented run-down rejections). He's demonstrating that a player can be great by concentration on all dimensions of the game, having great floor awareness, snagging boards, blocking shots, playing D, setting up teammates, playing good team ball, and, yes, even knocking down tre's and dunking on occasion.



bwhahahahaha..
he did not bring back team play or make assists sexy again...

that would be steve nash, chris paul, derron williams who brought the assists back... they are the one's who make it sexy.. not lbj...
all he does his go the rim and passeds out.. nothin sexy bout that...
now what nash and paul does.. is

revefsreleets
06-16-2009, 11:56 AM
We mock what we don't understand.

Found this fun little article:

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2008/10/16/nba-top-50-lebron-james-no-1/

Each stat has a meter which measures what percentile of NBA players who recorded 1,000 minutes of game time in '07-08 LeBron exceeds in said stat. For instance, in the first line, LeBron (the league's leading scorer) produces more points per game than 99% of the league. (It's actually 99.6%, but whatever.)

We all know LeBron can score and create, that's no revelation. But did you realize LeBron earns more rebounds than 85% of the league? More assists and steals than 96% of NBA players? More blocks -- as a small forwards -- than 85% of the NBA? Even shooting efficiency, his supposed weakness ... LeBron ranks in the 72nd percentile there. (I used True Shooting percentage, which is actually a disadvantage to LeBron compared to field goal or effective field goal percentage.)

See what I mean about King James as the only real video game player? If you created LeBron in NBA2k9 or whatever, you would be creating a fictional, idealized player. A player with these stats in this NBA, a man who scores more than anyone and gets more assists than all but 4% of his contemporaries ... that is a dream, not reality. But here he is, folks, carrying a team deep into the playoffs and not winning MVP awards. This is the white whale.

If you'd rather have Kobe taking your buzzer beaters, fine. If you'd pick Dwight Howard or Chris Paul first in some league reset draft, I won't begrudge your decision. But from my seat, it seems pretty damn clear who the best player in the NBA is and will be for foreseeable future. It's LeBron James.

http://www.blogcdn.com/nba.fanhouse.com/media/2008/10/lebronsbag-tz-425.jpg

Incidentally, the author has the top 3 players in the NBA as:
1. LBJ
2. Chris Paul
3. Kobe

MACH1
06-16-2009, 01:13 PM
The argument didn't fly, and it still doesn't.

Otherwise we have:
Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino
Pat Burrell > Ted Williams
Dennis Rodman > Karl Malone

Faulty logic.

The only faulty logic is that LePadmystats is the greatest player.

lilyoder6
06-16-2009, 01:43 PM
well he, and u can take leshit...

and i'll take kobe, best on the planet AND HIS 4 RINGS... takin my shots

xfl2001fan
06-16-2009, 01:53 PM
LMAO...what's really funny is that all the HATERS said that he couldn't win the title without Shaq...Looks like LeBron can't win one without Shaq either LMAO!!!!

Kobe is the best in the world...top 5 all-time, top 2 shooting guards all-time. It's sad that some people can't admit it.

The difference would be that when Shaq and Kobe were together, Shaq was their primary guy. Lebron needs a strong number 2. Prior to the post season, it looked like Mo Williams might be that guy...but then he disappeared during the playoffs. It wasn't that teams were guarding him better, he was consistently missing wide open shots that he hit with regularity during the regular season.

Lebron needs his Scottie Pippen.

Kobe had a strong supporting cast around him that didn't completely disappear during the playoffs. The one time that Kobe truly leads his team to a championship (because Kobe did lead this team) was when he was doing his best LBJ impression (trying for and exceeding a 30 point 7 assist 7 rebound average during a playoff series.)

Isn't it amazing how when he finally does what LBJ has been doing, he earns a ring as the leader of his team...and that his team didn't let him down by constantly missing wide open shots that they consistently hit during the regular season?

revefsreleets
06-16-2009, 02:37 PM
Why talk stats and facts when you can just toss out biased opinion and hyperbole? Why is Kobe the best? Because we say so, and that's that!

Anyway, all this talk about the Cavs getting Shaq is cute, but I ultimately hope it doens't happen for several reasons. First off, Shaq can still ball, but he's only about 80% of the player he used to be. Secondly, and most importantly, he's going to be nothing more than a 1 year hired gun. I'd rather see them pick up somebody like Bosh, or even that turncoat Boozer, someone with a few years left in the tank so Lebron can collect multiple rings. If you start bringing in Shaq-type guys, you end up having to replace them every year.

I doubt the Cavs will have any trouble finding a guy who wants to play with the best player in the NBA who might just be on his way to becoming the best player ever. They'll need to work on the salary cap after they sign LBJ, but they can cross that bridge when they come to it.

MACH1
06-16-2009, 03:06 PM
The difference would be that when Shaq and Kobe were together, Shaq was their primary guy. Lebron needs a strong number 2. Prior to the post season, it looked like Mo Williams might be that guy...but then he disappeared during the playoffs. It wasn't that teams were guarding him better, he was consistently missing wide open shots that he hit with regularity during the regular season.

Lebron needs his Scottie Pippen.

Kobe had a strong supporting cast around him that didn't completely disappear during the playoffs. The one time that Kobe truly leads his team to a championship (because Kobe did lead this team) was when he was doing his best LBJ impression (trying for and exceeding a 30 point 7 assist 7 rebound average during a playoff series.)

Isn't it amazing how when he finally does what LBJ has been doing, he earns a ring as the leader of his team...and that his team didn't let him down by constantly missing wide open shots that they consistently hit during the regular season?

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe_lat_1.jpg > http://ihatelebronjames.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/lebron-crybaby-banner-225x300.jpg

Steel_12
06-16-2009, 03:06 PM
no... what is really funny is the most annoying thing about kobe is his fans.

they are clones of the tom brady, derrick jeter, jeff gordon, fans where the flavor of the week suddenly becomes the greatest of all time.

Flavor of the week? And you talk about Kobe fans being annoying...how about his haters being ignorant? He's been dominating the game since the end of his 2nd year in the league. He's been great for a long time...saying a week just proves you have no clue what you're talking about. If anything, LeBron is the flavor of the week.

Steel_12
06-16-2009, 03:27 PM
The difference would be that when Shaq and Kobe were together, Shaq was their primary guy. Lebron needs a strong number 2. Prior to the post season, it looked like Mo Williams might be that guy...but then he disappeared during the playoffs. It wasn't that teams were guarding him better, he was consistently missing wide open shots that he hit with regularity during the regular season.

Lebron needs his Scottie Pippen.

Kobe had a strong supporting cast around him that didn't completely disappear during the playoffs. The one time that Kobe truly leads his team to a championship (because Kobe did lead this team) was when he was doing his best LBJ impression (trying for and exceeding a 30 point 7 assist 7 rebound average during a playoff series.)

Isn't it amazing how when he finally does what LBJ has been doing, he earns a ring as the leader of his team...and that his team didn't let him down by constantly missing wide open shots that they consistently hit during the regular season?

Shaq was the primary guy in many people's eyes and rightfully so but Kobe is the one that closed them games out. It takes a team, like you said, to win titles and Kobe was Equally responsible for these 3 titles as Shaq was. Especially the last title!

If you think Shaq is the answer to LeBron winning a title, I feel sorry for you. He will ruin that team just like he did Orlando, LA and he'll probably criticize Mike Brown like he did SVG.

Kobe has done many spectacular things BEFORE he got help. He's had plenty of games where his stats are ridiculous. That's where you Kobe haters get lost. He averaged 32, 8 and 8 when Shaq went down and kept them in the playoff hunt. During that 9 consecutive 40 point greatness that I witnessed, there was no stopping him (and he was 24 when he did that...same age as LeBron). He carried that team by doing everything! He was doing it BEFORE LBJ came into the league so all that bs you talkin now is just that, BULLSHIT!

Of course he wasn't going to win a title with bums on his team. But ya'll are quick to call him a crybaby because he wants help...you see how that worked out for him! He wants to win and will do what it takes to do so. That's why he's better than LeBron. It's not because we say so...he has the stats, the determination and the hardware to prove it. He's been the leader of that team since Shaq left but he finally realized it last year. He's been where LeBron is right now...he's been let down by his teammates...but he has the smarts to know that he has the power to get what he wants. LeBron needs to do it or he'll NEVER win a title.

Steel_12
06-16-2009, 03:31 PM
Why talk stats and facts when you can just toss out biased opinion and hyperbole? Why is Kobe the best? Because we say so, and that's that!

You must have missed every one of my posts because I state more than just bullshit.

lilyoder6
06-16-2009, 04:46 PM
Why talk stats and facts when you can just toss out biased opinion and hyperbole? Why is Kobe the best? Because we say so, and that's that!

Anyway, all this talk about the Cavs getting Shaq is cute, but I ultimately hope it doens't happen for several reasons. First off, Shaq can still ball, but he's only about 80% of the player he used to be. Secondly, and most importantly, he's going to be nothing more than a 1 year hired gun. I'd rather see them pick up somebody like Bosh, or even that turncoat Boozer, someone with a few years left in the tank so Lebron can collect multiple rings. If you start bringing in Shaq-type guys, you end up having to replace them every year.

I doubt the Cavs will have any trouble finding a guy who wants to play with the best player in the NBA who might just be on his way to becoming the best player ever. They'll need to work on the salary cap after they sign LBJ, but they can cross that bridge when they come to it.

that all nice and evrything.. but anyone they bring in will be a 1yr thing..
b/c ledip is goin to the nets or knicks


well u know what helps kobe, is that the ppl who actually cover basketball and know what they are talking about.. say kobe the best on the planet....

revefsreleets
06-16-2009, 04:54 PM
Who, like all the writers who voted him the MVP?

Kobe is still the best scorer in the league. And he plays great defense. James is a better team player, passer, rebounder, and has better floor awareness. He's already a better leader, and he's still just a kid.

Jesus, dude, keep up...Kobe was, James is.

This is Kobe's shining highlight moment, and then he starts the slow fade. James hasn't even gotten started yet.

SteelersinCA
06-16-2009, 05:37 PM
i will! thank you. :hatsoff:

when was the last time kobe was at the top of his respective sport?

just yesterday? lol. typical 'flavor of the week' clonespeak.

arent the yankees #1 right now?

wouldnt gordon have dozens of champs under the "old" scoring system?

isnt brady always the bestest and always ranked #1 when healthy?

doesnt kobes ass taste much more sweeter than shaqs?

i wouldnt know. perhaps you can tell me. :noidea:

:moon: :flap:

Actually Kobe has been an All-Star how many times 11-12? He was the MVP last year and won a title this year. People have been talking about him being the best in the league for years.

What do the yankees have to do with this? I thought you brought up Derek Jeter. Not trying to deflect are you? Jeter has been at the top of the game since he started, I believe he has made the All-Star game every year and leads voting this year as well. I'm not a Jeter, Yankees or baseball fan but his volumes of records and stats seem to confirm he is not a flavor of the week.

Again, I'm not an ASSCAR fan so I don't know what the old vs new scoring system is but I do know that I know who Jeff Gordon is and given my level of disinterest in ASSCAR and your apparent conviction for flavors of the week, I assume he's pretty much up there as well.

As far as tasting ass, I'll leave that to you, you seem to have a lock on it. :wave:

SteelersinCA
06-16-2009, 05:41 PM
The difference would be that when Shaq and Kobe were together, Shaq was their primary guy. Lebron needs a strong number 2. Prior to the post season, it looked like Mo Williams might be that guy...but then he disappeared during the playoffs. It wasn't that teams were guarding him better, he was consistently missing wide open shots that he hit with regularity during the regular season.

Lebron needs his Scottie Pippen.

Kobe had a strong supporting cast around him that didn't completely disappear during the playoffs. The one time that Kobe truly leads his team to a championship (because Kobe did lead this team) was when he was doing his best LBJ impression (trying for and exceeding a 30 point 7 assist 7 rebound average during a playoff series.)

Isn't it amazing how when he finally does what LBJ has been doing, he earns a ring as the leader of his team...and that his team didn't let him down by constantly missing wide open shots that they consistently hit during the regular season?

Critical distinction, not surprising you gloss over it. Jerry West and Kobe are the only 2 people to average 30+ and 7+ rebounds in the Finals. Kobe can't finally be doing what LBJ did because LBJ hasn't done it. You got that right? It's not an impression when the other person hasn't done it.

Remind me, when was the last time LBJ scored 40 in the Finals? Last time LBJ averaged 30+ pts and 7 reb and 7 assists in the Finals? Impression? Come on.

Steel_12
06-16-2009, 06:46 PM
Critical distinction, not surprising you gloss over it. Jerry West and Kobe are the only 2 people to average 30+ and 7+ rebounds in the Finals. Kobe can't finally be doing what LBJ did because LBJ hasn't done it. You got that right? It's not an impression when the other person hasn't done it.

Remind me, when was the last time LBJ scored 40 in the Finals? Last time LBJ averaged 30+ pts and 7 reb and 7 assists in the Finals? Impression? Come on.

"Why talk stats and facts when you can just toss out biased opinion and hyperbole? Why is Kobe the best? Because we say so, and that's that!" (c) Revefsreleets

LMAO...don't throw facts our there SteelersinCA...it's biased and hyperbole!!!

tony hipchest
06-16-2009, 07:11 PM
i love it how using analogies to make a simple point even easier to hammer into peoples thick concrete skulls is all of a sudden called "deflection".

then again, i guess im not working with the sharpest tools here either, where hyperbole and a hypothetical situation is looked at as diversion and distraction.

if one can understand the term context, and place the term 'flavor of the week" in it, they will see that it refers to "of the day" or "in the NOW". in other words, take the entire concept and put it into freaking historical perspective.

because they are freshest on peoples minds, tom brady is suddenly better than joe montana. jeff gordon is greater than earnhardt or petty. kobe is the greatest of all time...

:jerkit:

sydney crosby could win 3 more cups and i still probably wouldnt call him the greatest of all time. not as long as mario was in the building (who still has competition with gretzky and howe for the title).

maybe the best example of a flavor of the week athlete possibly correctly being called the greatest in the world in their time was mike tyson and even then theres a big argument that even at mikes peak, ali was better.

then MJ and jerry rice (and currently tiger woods).

according to fanboy logic, if i accept kobe as the best ever, i have to accept brady, gordon, and jeter, too.

sorry, i just aint there yet. its a shame real logic leaves people stumped and dumbfounded and stuttering "j-j-j-jeter".

kobe is no rice, payton, or woods in regards to his respective sport, but he is now tied with shaq and duncan for championships. good for him. :thumbsup:

xfl2001fan
06-16-2009, 09:14 PM
Critical distinction, not surprising you gloss over it. Jerry West and Kobe are the only 2 people to average 30+ and 7+ rebounds in the Finals. Kobe can't finally be doing what LBJ did because LBJ hasn't done it. You got that right? It's not an impression when the other person hasn't done it.

Remind me, when was the last time LBJ scored 40 in the Finals? Last time LBJ averaged 30+ pts and 7 reb and 7 assists in the Finals? Impression? Come on.

Kobe does his best Lebron impression by playing the all-round (team concept) game. Nice of you to gloss over it.

How many people in the history of the NBA Finals have averaged 22 points, 7 rebounds and 6.8 assists? How many did it at the age of 22?

Seriously, that's the best you can come up with? How many people have scored a triple double in their first playoff game? Lebron and Magic. I can post obscure stats too. Ain't this fun?

SteelersinCA
06-16-2009, 10:10 PM
They didn't think they were obscure when they were mentioning them on the Finals, unless you are saying the Finals are obscure. I guess 4 people in the history of the NBA could be considered obscure.

SteelersinCA
06-16-2009, 10:12 PM
i love it how using analogies to make a simple point even easier to hammer into peoples thick concrete skulls is all of a sudden called "deflection".


The analogy wasn't but switching from Jeter to the yankees sure seemed to be going down that path. You get that through your concrete skull? And then again, by your logic LBJ would be considered a flavor of the week correct? Just want to make sure you are playing fair and not just hating Kobe because you're a hater.

lilyoder6
06-16-2009, 10:33 PM
Who, like all the writers who voted him the MVP?

Kobe is still the best scorer in the league. And he plays great defense. James is a better team player, passer, rebounder, and has better floor awareness.i doubt that, kobe knows his shit, and going back to him teaching.. tells his team-mates what 2 do, where to be. and what the opp is doing He's already a better leader, and he's still just a kid. if he was a better leader, then he would of willed his team thru the trenches and won the series against the magic, if he was a better leader, he wouldn't of dipped out on his team and coaches, and let them take on the media by themselves

Jesus, dude, keep up...Kobe was, James is.

This is Kobe's shining highlight moment, and then he starts the slow fade. James hasn't even gotten started yet.

and the mvp, is like what someone else said,, just whoever the flavor is of that time

tony hipchest
06-16-2009, 11:29 PM
The analogy wasn't but switching from Jeter to the yankees sure seemed to be going down that path. You get that through your concrete skull? And then again, by your logic LBJ would be considered a flavor of the week correct? Just want to make sure you are playing fair and not just hating Kobe because you're a hater.
you must not have followed baseball when jeter won his last champ. anyways thats just minutia and besides the point.

of course, according to my own correct logic, labron would be considered a "flavor of the week".

in FACT, being that he is so young and hasnt won multiple crowns such as jordan, tiger, jeter, brady, gordon, rice, woods, etc. it would be fair to say he is "flavor of the day".

by the same token, the next high school phenom who is instantly crowned as the "next jordan" can be considered the "flavor of the hour".

im fine with that, as it is logical and it makes sense.

you all should try to quit taking things so litterally. when they say a "mans finest hour", they arent necessarilly talking about 60 minutes as an exact scientific measurement of time. it is a figure of speech used to illustrate a point.

calling it a deflection is simply a cop out.

with that being said, lebron passes the eyeball test and his talent and skills surpass even those that kobe brought to the table many years ago.

time will tell if labron is the next MJ or just another vince carter (sorry to use another analogy you may or may not get).

time will tell, especially if the cavs start bringing in all the horrys, fishers, malones, and paytons of the world to help him reach the finals. (not to mention having a shaq type player or trading for a gasol type player).

speaking of obscurities spoken by the talking heads during the finals, magic called gasol the best big man in the game today not named garnett.

his opinion is leaps and bounds above a steelers board poster suggesting the talent kobe has surrounding him vs labron is only slightly better.

SteelersinCA
06-16-2009, 11:41 PM
speaking of obscurities spoken by the talking heads during the finals, magic called gasol the best big man in the game today not named garnett.

his opinion is leaps and bounds above a steelers board poster suggesting the talent kobe has surrounding him vs labron is only slightly better.

If you've been following the thread, you'll also recall Magic said Kobe is the best player in the league right now. You aren't suggesting Magic is right about one and worthless about another are you?:drink:

tony hipchest
06-17-2009, 12:01 AM
If you've been following the thread, you'll also recall Magic said Kobe is the best player in the league right now. You aren't suggesting Magic is right about one and worthless about another are you?:drink:what i am definitely suggesting is that comparing the distance between labron and kobe vs. the distance between ilgauskas and gasol is like comparing the width of a razor blade to a canyon.

magic's biased opinion definitely carries a ton of weight, but he essentially said that gasol was better than tim duncan (or even d. howard) which i find boarder line retarded.

MACH1
06-17-2009, 12:42 AM
Here's a bitter pill to swallow.
This was an interview in 2008.

Larry “Legend” Bird drops mad love for KB24

Indiana Pacers president and NBA legend Larry Bird was on the Dan Patrick Show this morning, and the subject of clutch performers came up. Patrick asked Larry Legend if Kobe’s ability to hit big shots rivaled Michael Jordan. Bird responded with this:

“I think Kobe is the best player in our league and I think he’s been the best player for a long time, not to take anything away from anybody else. You know, somebody told me the other day that [Kobe] hasn’t won an MVP trophy, and it sort of made me feel like I want to go throw mine away, so that’s how much respect I have for the guy.”

For the record, Bird is a three-time NBA MVP, having won the award in 1984, 1985 and 1986.

Spin away.

And straight from the horses mouth.

Fv37ykpYk84

Ouch, thats gotta hurt

tony hipchest
06-17-2009, 12:46 AM
i heard to seal the deal as the mieux, bryant is gonna go chad johnson and legally change his name to "LeKobe". :laughing:

btw... back in '08 slinkies and legwarmers were all the rage. that is so, like, yesterday. omfg!

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 02:54 AM
what i am definitely suggesting is that comparing the distance between labron and kobe vs. the distance between ilgauskas and gasol is like comparing the width of a razor blade to a canyon.

magic's biased opinion definitely carries a ton of weight, but he essentially said that gasol was better than tim duncan (or even d. howard) which i find boarder line retarded.

I don't think it's a stretch at all to say Gasol is better than Howard. How good was Howard in the Finals? If he could make free throws or anything other than a dunk it wouldn't be close. A big man without so much as a post move just takes up space. Howard takes up space well. Other than that, not so much. Scoring 40 pts against Varejao and Ilgauskas doesn't impress anyone but Cavs fans.

lilyoder6
06-17-2009, 09:01 AM
i heard to seal the deal as the mieux, bryant is gonna go chad johnson and legally change his name to "LeKobe". :laughing:

btw... back in '08 slinkies and legwarmers were all the rage. that is so, like, yesterday. omfg!

hey now!!!!!!!!!!!

slinkies are awesome!!!

and if the women could pull off the legwarmers... more power to them

xfl2001fan
06-17-2009, 11:46 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FranchiseRankings-Lakers

How can Kobe be considered the best...when he's not even considered to be the best Laker ever?

Notice, when I post articles, I don't have to go back to 2008, 2007 or beyond...I find current media.

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 11:53 AM
Hollinger hates Kobe. In 2008 Hollinger had Kobe ranked 4th in MVP voting. Tony Hipchest has more credibility in my mind than Hollinger.

revefsreleets
06-17-2009, 11:58 AM
How can you use Magic? Like HE'S not gonna be completely biased?

This is all stupid anyway. In about 15 years there will be NO QUESTION as to who the better player was.

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 12:18 PM
I didn't bring up Magic on either occasion he was brought into this thread. Just merely pointed out what he says when someone brings him up. Just trying to understand how his opinion is good for one aspect of basketball and not the other.

revefsreleets
06-17-2009, 12:56 PM
If Magic played for the Cavs, or Lebron played for the Lakers, his answer would have been LBJ.

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 01:00 PM
Haven't we been through this?

revefsreleets
06-17-2009, 01:10 PM
I'm sure. But this stupid effing thread won't die, so it's doomed to repeat itself endlessly...

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 01:16 PM
I bet it dies soon, there won't be any more news or articles to post. If Lebron has another year like this year next year, it won't matter. Unless Kobe has a 2006 or 2008 year again.

xfl2001fan
06-17-2009, 01:23 PM
Hollinger hates Kobe. In 2008 Hollinger had Kobe ranked 4th in MVP voting. Tony Hipchest has more credibility in my mind than Hollinger.

And yet Hollinger's opinion has far more national credibility than yours does. He doesn't hate Kobe just because he placed him 4th. You just don't like his reasons for not giving Kobe the #1 or #2. I need to do some research on it...but I believe Hollinger was one of the few to vote for Kobe (as the #1) when Nash stole on of his 2 awards. Or does he hate Nash more?

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 01:40 PM
Hollinger is driven by stats almost to a fault. Let's be honest, do you buy Kobe as #4 last year? Does that not impact the credibility in your mind? He goes solely based on PER. making decisions based on stats alone is dumb, I think we all agree on that yes?

xfl2001fan
06-17-2009, 01:50 PM
Hollinger is driven by stats almost to a fault. Let's be honest, do you buy Kobe as #4 last year? Does that not impact the credibility in your mind? He goes solely based on PER. making decisions based on stats alone is dumb, I think we all agree on that yes?

I agree that Kobe wasn't the #4 last year. Lebron, Howard, Wade and Paul I believe were more valuable. Not necessarily better (though I obviously believe Lebron is better), but more valuable.

I'm also not saying that Hollinger is the be-all end-all expert on all things NBA (because that doesn't exist) but he still brings logical research when comparing players. He also is the first to admit that it overlooks defense...so that guys like Shane Battier or Bruce Bowen have more worth than his forumlas can create.

He looks at more than just stats. He looks at how those stats are accumulated...so that while AI might score 41 points in 30 minutes...his worth is less than Kobe scoring 30 in 30...because Kobe is likely to have a better shooting percentage.

He also breaks things down according to pace played, etc... It is a stat driven comparison...because it's nearly impossible to go video game and measure strength, agility, speed without an annual combine.

Lebron has a 98 speed, 94 agility, 85 strength, 92 IQ whereas Kobe has a 94 speed, 96 agility, 72 strength and 91 IQ. Blah blah blah. That's speculation. At least Hollinger is working with something real (actual performance).

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 01:58 PM
I agree that Kobe wasn't the #4 last year. Lebron, Howard, Wade and Paul I believe were more valuable. Not necessarily better (though I obviously believe Lebron is better), but more valuable.

I'm also not saying that Hollinger is the be-all end-all expert on all things NBA (because that doesn't exist) but he still brings logical research when comparing players. He also is the first to admit that it overlooks defense...so that guys like Shane Battier or Bruce Bowen have more worth than his forumlas can create.

He looks at more than just stats. He looks at how those stats are accumulated...so that while AI might score 41 points in 30 minutes...his worth is less than Kobe scoring 30 in 30...because Kobe is likely to have a better shooting percentage.

He also breaks things down according to pace played, etc... It is a stat driven comparison...because it's nearly impossible to go video game and measure strength, agility, speed without an annual combine.

Lebron has a 98 speed, 94 agility, 85 strength, 92 IQ whereas Kobe has a 94 speed, 96 agility, 72 strength and 91 IQ. Blah blah blah. That's speculation. At least Hollinger is working with something real (actual performance).


Last year as in 2008 when Kobe won the MVP. We are talking the same year right?

xfl2001fan
06-17-2009, 02:07 PM
Last year as in 2008 when Kobe won the MVP. We are talking the same year right?

Nope...sorry.

Last year, Lebron CP3 and then Kobe.

However, I had Kobe as MVP in other years that he didn't win it. I never felt like Nash was the MVP. One of those should have been Kobe's and the other (if I remember right) I had Dirk as the guy.

Steel_12
06-17-2009, 05:50 PM
If Magic played for the Cavs, or Lebron played for the Lakers, his answer would have been LBJ.

I guess Larry Bird played for the Lakers too then....

xfl2001fan
07-16-2009, 12:21 PM
http://lebron2010.com/?p=2387

2009 ESPY's

Lebron Named Best NBA Player

revefsreleets
07-16-2009, 12:55 PM
The ESPY's are voted on by the fans, so "they don't know nuthin!"

< Kobe Nuthuggers >

lilyoder6
07-17-2009, 04:38 AM
wow