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mesaSteeler
04-26-2009, 05:13 PM
AFC North draft analysis
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth
April 26, 2009 5:56 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's James Walker

With a significant gap between the four division teams in 2008, the Cincinnati Bengals and Cleveland Browns attempted to play catch up, while the Pittsburgh Steelers and Baltimore Ravens looked to extend their dominance.

Plenty of fresh faces were added to AFC North rosters during the 2009 NFL draft.
The names are well-known: Rey Maualuga, Andre Smith, Michael Oher, Alex Mack, Evander Hood, Brian Robiskie. As with every year, some of these players will blossom and others will flame out.

Here is a breakdown of the best and worst moves in the division:

Best move

Although neither the Steelers nor the Ravens made flashy slections, both of their first-round picks were solid moves in taking defensive tackle Evander Hood and offensive tackle Michael Oher, respectively.

These two AFC North teams realize games are won in the trenches. Despite picking late in the first round, the Ravens and Steelers got solid value picks, which will help them continue to control the line of scrimmage. Not coincidentally, the Cincinnati Bengals and Cleveland Browns also picked a pair of offensive linemen to try to catch up and win the line of scrimmage. But we will get to those picks later.

Baltimore needed to help second-year quarterback Joe Flacco in some fashion this weekend, and they did by getting added protection. Baltimore traded up three spots to land Oher of Mississippi at No. 23. He has a tremendous story of overcoming hardship and the Ravens like his mental and physical toughness.

If coached up properly, Hood also could develop into a solid starter within a couple years for Pittsburgh. After losing just one starter (cornerback Bryant McFadden) from last year's Super Bowl team, there wasn't much of a chance any pick would start right away, particularly on Pittsburgh's top-rated defense. But Hood is a physically strong player who gives the Steelers depth and options on the defensive line, where all three starters are over the age of 30.

Riskiest move

The Bengals continued their trend of taking risks high in the draft, starting in the first round with Smith.

Without a doubt, the Alabama left tackle was one of the best players in the country during the college season. He has tremendous talent. But a suspension in the bowl game, a poor NFL combine and not-so-great pro day led to questions about his work ethic and decision making. The Bengals will invest a lot of guaranteed money in Smith, which raises even more questions. Add the fact that Virginia left tackle Eugene Monroe, a much safer pick, was still available at No. 6 and that will add a lot of pressure for Cincinnati's selection of Smith to pan out.

Cincinnati also took another player with somewhat similar issues in Georgia Tech defensive end Michael Johnson in the third round. He has tremendous first-day ability, but apparently every NFL team feels he has second-day motivation. Again, it will be up to the coaches to get the best out of Johnson at all times.

This is the ultimate boom or bust draft for the Bengals. They probably drafted more pure, athletic talent than any team in the division, which could turn out to be all that matters. But players like Smith and Johnson will need to be constantly monitored, and there has to be some reason every team passed on USC linebacker Rey Maualuga as well. Perhaps many general managers felt he was overrated, which remains to be seen.

Overall, these draft picks have the potential to either lead to Cincinnati's resurgence or add to its recurring problems.

Most surprising move

It is becoming an annual trend in Pittsburgh: The Steelers once again did not select an offensive lineman on the first day of the NFL draft.

The last time it happened was 2002 with former guard Kendall Simmons. The run of centers went before Pittsburgh's No. 32 pick in the first round as Mack (No. 21) and Louisville's Eric Wood (No. 28 to Buffalo Bills) were off the board. Pittsburgh felt center Max Unger and offensive tackle Eben Britton didn't fit in the first round and passed on several more offensive line prospects in the second round, where it traded out of the pick.

Pittsburgh's struggles with running the ball and protecting the passer last year were well documented. The Steelers finally took Wisconsin guard Kraig Urbik with one of their three third-round picks.

File it away

Under new coach Eric Mangini and first-year general manager George Kokinis, the Browns did a lot of wheeling and dealing in their first draft together. With a focus on depth they made an NFL-high three trades in the first round before landing University of California center Alex Mack.

The Browns got three players and the Jets' first- and second-rounders for Cleveland's No. 5 overall pick, which turned out to be USC quarterback Mark Sanchez. The Browns continued their trading ways by picking up two six-round picks to move to No. 19 and again to No. 21, where they eventually took Mack.

This 2009 draft could eventually be judged by the way its trades led to two potential franchise quarterbacks. The Browns gave up the No. 5 overall pick, which turned out to be Sanchez, and the No. 17 pick to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, which turned out to be quarterback Josh Freeman.

If quarterbacks Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson don't pan out in Cleveland, and Sanchez and/or Freeman are future NFL stars, expect many Clevelanders to utilize revisionist history down the road.

Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns, Baltimore Ravens, Pittsburgh Steelers, NFL draft 09, AFC North, New York Jets, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Crow-Magnon
04-26-2009, 05:51 PM
I can't argue with too much of that. Both the Steelers and the Ravens do tend to draft prospects that will "win games in the trenches." Which is why, over the past decade, they have both been more succesful on a year-to-year basis than either Cincinnati or Cleveland.

Baltimore's two biggest draft weaknesses have always been QB's and WR's. Hopefully last year was the end of their QB draft jinx. No WR drafted this go-around, although the Ravens did select a TE in the 5th round. Maybe a trade is in the works.

55BaileyFan
04-26-2009, 06:02 PM
Just because I love Hines Ward's big play ability and his hitting. I think that the Rey Maualuga pick offers Hines another Cincinnati linebacker that he can properly welcome to the NFL by breaking a bone in his body. Just to put that out there.

Steelerfreak58
04-26-2009, 06:56 PM
Just because I love Hines Ward's big play ability and his hitting. I think that the Rey Maualuga pick offers Hines another Cincinnati linebacker that he can properly welcome to the NFL by breaking a bone in his body. Just to put that out there.

Sadly that will probably get him a 15 yard penalty now.:doh:

Stlrs4Life
04-26-2009, 09:53 PM
Just because I love Hines Ward's big play ability and his hitting. I think that the Rey Maualuga pick offers Hines another Cincinnati linebacker that he can properly welcome to the NFL by breaking a bone in his body. Just to put that out there.


I do not want Ward out there to purposley hurt anybody.

Rek
04-26-2009, 09:59 PM
Ravens -- They are getting as old as the Steelers but lack the big-play ability depth-wise. Free agency also hit them a bit hard. Still a threat, but I don't think to the level of 2nd round of playoffs.

Bengals -- Lost TJ Whozy. CJ is a drama queen. Coaching staff sucks.

Browns -- Seriously? It's the Browns.

Looks like another AFC North Championship and possible SB appearance / win!

:tt::tt::tt::tt:

Rek
04-26-2009, 10:01 PM
I do not want Ward out there to purposley hurt anybody.

Me neither. But if the Bungels have their head down and are looking to put a lickin' on one of our guys, I hope Ward vaporizes them all.

Rek
04-26-2009, 10:02 PM
I can't argue with too much of that. Both the Steelers and the Ravens do tend to draft prospects that will "win games in the trenches." Which is why, over the past decade, they have both been more succesful on a year-to-year basis than either Cincinnati or Cleveland.

Baltimore's two biggest draft weaknesses have always been QB's and WR's. Hopefully last year was the end of their QB draft jinx. No WR drafted this go-around, although the Ravens did select a TE in the 5th round. Maybe a trade is in the works.

I'm not sure that I would be sold on Flacco if I was a Ravens fan. It would have to take a year or two more to make an accurate decision.

Crow-Magnon
04-27-2009, 07:25 AM
I'm not sure that I would be sold on Flacco if I was a Ravens fan. It would have to take a year or two more to make an accurate decision.

How can I argue that? Look at how many Steeler fans were talking about whether Big Ben was good enough to win it all last year? But Flacco has definitely shown promise, especially when he basically had one go-to WR last year (Mason) until Clayton started to come around. All I know is that compared to most Ravens QB's of the past, Flacco shows a lot of promise, especially with that cannon of an arm.

Ravens -- They are getting as old as the Steelers but lack the big-play ability depth-wise. Free agency also hit them a bit hard. Still a threat, but I don't think to the level of 2nd round of playoffs.

My hope is that with getting Oher in the draft, Birk in a trade and getting Yanda back from IR, the OL will be young, big and strong enough to protect Flacco without relying on a lot of blocking by Heap, L.J. Smith or Sypniewski. The play from TE was absent most of last year, which is a big change from years past when Ravens TE's were the most active receivers.

But with no WR's taken in the draft, I have a feeling a trade is in the works. I've heard a lot of chatter about a trade for Bouldin from the Cards, but I don't think that's going to happen. But I'm betting Ozzie is going to work out a deal for a WR with 3-4 years of experience.

paw-n-maul-u
04-27-2009, 07:49 AM
if you REALLY think about it. I mean really hard.

The steelers will be adding THIS list of players to the team that are either rookies, or barely played last year:

Sweed
Mendenhall
Mundy
Sepulveda
B. Davis
L.Timmons (even though his role was more than any of those combined, he still hasn't done what we all expect him to do)

Plus 9 draft picks. Two interior line players ... Two DE's... Two CB's ... and a burner at WR. And a tightend that can actually block unlike speath.

I call it a success on every level. the team won the superbowl without any of that talent last year ... not to mention losing two starters on the line for practically the whole season each (smith and simmons)

This is a very, very good team. With at least 10+ players added to the mix this year and last that have more than legit shots at making the opening day roster.

I think this is the last year for Fernando bryant ... carey davis ... Stapleton should eventually be replaced.


The only thing that disappoints me is that we didn't find anyone to replace W. Colon. But the time and place for taking an OT just wasn't in the cards yesterday, EX: I was high on Jammon (sp?) meredith from SC.

He was in kipers top ten available for about 3 rounds. Steelers had ample chanced to take him but obviously they know the board wayyyyy better than us.

Every guy we got is basically a 4 year starter. with no durability OR character issues. Tough, hard working, steelers players. I love it.

This is going to be a good team for years to come.

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 07:53 AM
Baltimore had a good 1st pick (Oher) but the rest of their draft looks kinda weak. They didn't draft any playmakers on offense, i dont get it.

Cinci did okay and might be decent next year

Cleveland is stupid and will suck

I'm liking the Steelers draft more and more. If Urbik can step in and play well at RG, that will be a huge upgrade

Steelers win the division again

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 07:55 AM
I'm not sure that I would be sold on Flacco if I was a Ravens fan. It would have to take a year or two more to make an accurate decision.

you called it

SOPHMORE SLUMP BABY!!!!!!!!

revefsreleets
04-27-2009, 09:39 AM
I have no idea why everyone is saying the Browns draft was so weak. They added a couple starters on defense from the Jets, they added a versatile interior lineman, they got two good WR's and addressed that GLARING need. They added 11 players from this draft, and many will have an instant impact.

I give it an A.

Fire Haley
04-27-2009, 09:50 AM
I'm just glad the Browns didn't get Curry - or any other impact player on defense. They still suck.
Mangini is still an idiot - now they have a 3-way competition for QB? Bwahaha!

They traded down in a weak draft to get warm bodies. We will bulldoze them again.


After losing just one starter from last year's Super Bowl team, there wasn't much of a chance any pick would start right away

finally, someone gets it

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 09:51 AM
Baltimore had a good 1st pick (Oher) but the rest of their draft looks kinda weak. They didn't draft any playmakers on offense, i dont get it.

Cinci did okay and might be decent next year

Cleveland is stupid and will suck

I'm liking the Steelers draft more and more. If Urbik can step in and play well at RG, that will be a huge upgrade

Steelers win the division again

It's analysis like that that prevents you from ever being a professional/collegiate scout.

While I don't share Revs grade (I gave us a strong B/B+), we solidified our defensive front, picked up an OLB to pair with Wimbley, got two solid possession WRs with decent (but not great) speed and a Center/Guard who played well against the kind of NT (BJ Raji in the Senior Bowl) we face 4 games a year (Hampton/Ngata).

Fire Haley
04-27-2009, 09:55 AM
The Browns are now officially an expansion team filling their roster with scrubs to reload for another 5 Year Plan.


Have fun with that.

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 10:08 AM
The Browns are now officially an expansion team filling their roster with scrubs to reload for another 5 Year Plan.


Have fun with that.

Not quite.

Our offensive line is already in place, with our Journeyman Center likely to be replaced by Alex Mack. So we've upgraded there. Despite his dropsies, you've got to imagine that Braylon Edwards will play lights out this year (contract year) and teamed with a very polished Robiskie, should form a nice duo. Robert Royal/Steve Heiden are more blocking TEs who can make a catch, steady, but not spectacular.

So it's a question of how much Jamal Lewis has left in the tank (because we don't have a good backup plan on him) and whether or not BQ will win the QB battle.

Defensively, we improved our D-line by grabbing a the starting RDE from the Jets (who wanted more of a pass-rushing DE as opposed to a 3-4 DE) and a starting Safety to shore up those weaknesses. Keep in mind, these two starters came from a defense that was significantly better than the Browns. While some of the "experts" say that we reached for our OLB, they also agree that he's got some talent and a non-stop motor. He's a good character guy and (judging by his 28 Wonderlic score and being an Academic All-Wac) intelligent too. (Plus, he's got a nice athletic pedigree.)

Alex Hall (LOLB) showed flashes as a rookie last year, despite coming from a small college and that other USC linebacker will provide depth at the ILB spot.

Question marks are (still) HB, CB and QB. There are still some who think that BQ could be a good QB...and CB, well, we didn't do much to help ourselves there. However, that still puts at a significantly better position than most expansion teams...because you don't see OL/DL as the question marks. That's where expansion teams fail.

Crow-Magnon
04-27-2009, 10:13 AM
Baltimore had a good 1st pick (Oher) but the rest of their draft looks kinda weak. They didn't draft any playmakers on offense, i dont get it.

Cinci did okay and might be decent next year

Cleveland is stupid and will suck

I'm liking the Steelers draft more and more. If Urbik can step in and play well at RG, that will be a huge upgrade

Steelers win the division again

Ravens just picked up UDFA Eron Riley out of Duke.

Eron Riley's 2008 stats with a much worse offensive unit than what DHB had:
TD's:16
Receptions: 61
Yards: 693


DHB's 2008 Stats:
TD's: 5
Receptions: 42
Yards: 609

And DHB went to the Raiders as the # 7 pick in the draft. Way to go, Al! :toofunny:

steelerdave1969
04-27-2009, 10:26 AM
I do not want Ward out there to purposley hurt anybody.

I am not one that likes to see someone get hurt on purpose either, but to see a bone jarring hit like Ward does at times just lights my fire, whether it be by our Steelers' players or someone else's. I guess that is just my style of loving football to its fullest. .Smash Mouth Football Baby!!!

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 10:28 AM
It's analysis like that that prevents you from ever being a professional/collegiate scout.

While I don't share Revs grade (I gave us a strong B/B+)

Why would I waste my time analyzing the stupid Browns draft? If you search draft grades online, Browns are near the bottom with a C-

They passed up drafting an impact player by trading down. Mack was a reach where they took him and so was Robiskie. Their 3rd and 4th picks are freaking laughable, horrible picks

revefsreleets
04-27-2009, 10:38 AM
Why would I waste my time analyzing the stupid Browns draft? If you search draft grades online, Browns are near the bottom with a C-

They passed up drafting an impact player by trading down. Mack was a reach where they took him and so was Robiskie. Their 3rd and 4th picks are freaking laughable, horrible picks

Draft grades are about as reliable as power rankings.

It takes 3 years minimum to evaluate a draft, REALLY evaluate it.

I'd say judging by the TON of needs for that team, they did about as well as anybody in the draft.

By the by, here is what SI said about the Browns 3rd and 4th.
MM-The Browns take another receiver in the second round, again setting the stage to trade Braylon Edwards at some point if they get a worthy offer. Massaquoi was a productive receiver in the ultra-competitive SEC, and he was rising up the charts as of late. Massaquoi gives the Browns a pair of young players who are not divas at receiver, and both will come in hungry to prove themselves.

Vekuine is considered by some to be the most relentless performer available in this year's draft. He has a non-stop motor that allows him to be super-productive even though he may not be the most gifted athlete at that position. He should immediately improve the Browns paltry pass-rush and also be a demon on special teams.

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 10:44 AM
Draft grades are about as reliable as power rankings.

It takes 3 years minimum to evaluate a draft, REALLY evaluate it.

I'd say judging by the TON of needs for that team, they did about as well as anybody in the draft.

By the by, here is what SI said about the Browns 3rd and 4th.
MM-The Browns take another receiver in the second round, again setting the stage to trade Braylon Edwards at some point if they get a worthy offer. Massaquoi was a productive receiver in the ultra-competitive SEC, and he was rising up the charts as of late. Massaquoi gives the Browns a pair of young players who are not divas at receiver, and both will come in hungry to prove themselves.

Vekuine is considered by some to be the most relentless performer available in this year's draft. He has a non-stop motor that allows him to be super-productive even though he may not be the most gifted athlete at that position. He should immediately improve the Browns paltry pass-rush and also be a demon on special teams.


LOL. SI is the last source I would use for anything

here is a better one junior:


2009 NFL Draft Picks:

21. Alex Mack, C, California
A little early for Alex Mack? Maybe, but he's a heck of a prospect. He bolsters the front and makes the Browns running game potent again. Still, center wasn't nearly the team's biggest need, and there were tons of quality defensive players available. (Pick Grade: B)

36. Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State
There aren't too many quality receivers left on the board, so I get why the Browns drafted Brian Robiskie. He's talented and fills a need. But what is Cleveland going to do on defense? Was Eric Mangini too busy delivering pizzas to watch the Browns-Eagles Monday night game? (Pick Grade: B)

50. Mohamed Massaquoi, WR, Georgia
Brian Robiskie was at least a highly regarded prospect. Mohamed Massaquoi? Not so much. He has his problems. This poor grade isn't based on Massaquoi's talent though; it's more that Cleveland doesn't understand positional value. (Pick Grade: D)

52. David Veikune, DE/OLB, Hawaii
Horrible value. It's never good to take a mid-round prospect in the second round. Based on what Eric Mangini has done today, I can't say I'm surprised. (Pick Grade: D)

104. Kaluka Maiava, LB, USC
Unlike some of their Day 1 picks, the Browns found solid value here. Kaluka Maiava also fills a need. (Pick Grade: B)

177. Don Carey, CB, Norfolk State
Another solid Day 2 pick. Corner depth is needed, and Don Carey belongs in this draft range. (Pick Grade: B)

191. Coye Francies, CB, San Jose State
Coye Francies has major character issues, but he's a really talented player. A great gamble in Round 6. (Pick Grade: A)

195. James Davis, RB, Clemson
James Davis provides great draft value and fills a need. Davis should be able to take over for Jamal Lewis. (Pick Grade: A)

revefsreleets
04-27-2009, 10:46 AM
Source?

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 10:54 AM
Why would I waste my time analyzing the stupid Browns draft? If you search draft grades online, Browns are near the bottom with a C-

They passed up drafting an impact player by trading down. Mack was a reach where they took him and so was Robiskie. Their 3rd and 4th picks are freaking laughable, horrible picks

So because we didn't go with a Flashy, High Priced pick, we did terrible? Forget the fact that we addressed many needs with our draft/trades, right?

Define Reach. He wasn't going to be available in the second round and, though there may have been better players available, how many fit a legit need for our team? I hate the term reach anyways. Mel Kiper said that he labeled Alex Mack as the 21st best player in the draft. Getting the 21st best player at the 21st spot seems like it's not much of a reach. Mel Kiper also said that he was a reach. Which is it. Was he the 21st best player, or was he a reach. So these "experts" all go around and contradict themselves and you choose to read the ones that show us in the worst possible light. Essentially, you're clueless too. Got it.

We got two proven NFL players by trading down. Not flashy, not Pro Bowlers, but proven starting caliber veterans on a defense that was better than the Browns. That's a good move here on earth. Maybe not in your little world, but that's ok. It wasn't flashy, they're not pretty big names (i.e. expensive) just quality guys.

You need to have a solid foundation of solid players before you can have an impact player. Big Ben is useless without the solid players around him. Before we can ever hope to have that kind of impact player, we need to build that foundation first. That's what this draft has started.

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 10:55 AM
Browns rebuild their team every 2 years, they are a joke franchise

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 11:07 AM
We got two proven NFL players by trading down.

really? how are they proven NFL players? :toofunny:

sounds like you are clueless to me

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 11:08 AM
really? how are they proven NFL players? :toofunny:

sounds like you are clueless to me

They're proven because they've started on a defense that played significantly better than the Browns defense did.

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 11:12 AM
Big Ben is useless without the solid players around him.

:toofunny:

Yep, you are definitely clueless

Let me guess, you still think the Browns made the right move by passing on Big Ben and drafting Kellen Winslow LMAO

isnt there a seperate website for people like u?

Fire Haley
04-27-2009, 11:16 AM
Mangini is desperately clinging to his security blankie of Jets players because he took one look at the Browns roster and knew he had a complete rebuild project on his hands.

I'd say Cincy has improved enough to keep the Browns in the cellar until their next 5 year Plan.

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 11:21 AM
:toofunny:

Yep, you are definitely clueless

Let me guess, you still think the Browns made the right move by passing on Big Ben and drafting Kellen Winslow LMAO

isnt there a seperate website for people like u?

OK, so what would Big Ben do if he were on the Browns team? Would he have won a superbowl last year and a few years ago? Go ahead and say no. We all know it's true. He's a damn good QB, don't get me wrong, but you still have to have a damn good team to win a Superbowl...and the Browns aren't there. How good would Big Ben be if the Lions had drafted him? Granted, I don't think they'd go 0-16 last year if they had Ben, but they'd still be a cellar dwellar because they don't have the proper foundation to their team (Lines). The Browns have improved both sides of their lines these last few years and now are building the other pieces around them.

As for Kellen Winslow, I'm glad we got rid of the WR. He's a loudmouth Jack@$$ and you'd know that if you knew anything about me on this site. I've posted as much. Can't wait to get rid of Braylon too. If he could catch consistently, he'd be great, but then again, if Ike could catch consistently, he'd be considered an all-world CB. Alas, these things aren't so...and Edwards get's more acclaim as a WR than Taylor does a CB. Life's unfair like that sometimes.

What website do you have in mind? Is it www.takesteelheadtoschool.com

tyler289
04-27-2009, 11:39 AM
Unless the Ravens get Boldin, their offense does not scare me.


I like the Oher pick, personally, and think their OL will be nasty. Steelers counter by taking Hood and getting better (younger) on the DL. These two teams really do compete off the field, LOL

Fire Haley
04-27-2009, 11:41 AM
Losing Rex Ryan will be their downfall.
You watch.

RayRay will be screaming at his coaches even more now.

Steely McSmash
04-27-2009, 11:41 AM
I have no idea why everyone is saying the Browns draft was so weak. They added a couple starters on defense from the Jets, they added a versatile interior lineman, they got two good WR's and addressed that GLARING need. They added 11 players from this draft, and many will have an instant impact.

I give it an A.

I agree. they should have traded down once more IMO to get better value at center. Could have used a RB as well. Still they got like a draft and a half.

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 11:43 AM
OK, so what would Big Ben do if he were on the Browns team? ]

He would change your team from the embarassment that it is and make you guys a winner

period

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 11:46 AM
He would change your team from the embarassment that it is and make you guys a winner

period

Blind faithful troll. Got it. Now that I've got you pegged, I'm done with you.

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 11:47 AM
Blind faithful troll. Got it. Now that I've got you pegged, I'm done with you.

then get lost you stupid Browns troll

find a loser board to post on

if you dont think Big Ben would improve any loser team you are a friggin idiot

get lost troll boy

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 12:01 PM
then get lost you stupid Browns troll

find a loser board to post on

if you dont think Big Ben would improve any loser team you are a friggin idiot

get lost troll boy

Despite my last comment...I didn't say he wouldn't improve us. I did say that he wouldn't make us a SB contender. He won't win (consistently) unless he's got the right pieces around him, same as with any QB in this league. Peyton doesn't win without a line, WR/HB/TE...and a semi-decent defense. Brady doesn't win without tapes and solid WRs. Ben doesn't win without semi-decent line, good HB/WR/TE and a great defense.

It takes more than a QB. Much much more than a QB to win. Otherwise, KC would have had far more SB appearances after Joe Montana arrived. Except, despite the fact that he improved the team, they still weren't SB worthy.

But you overlooked that portion didn't you. Big Ben would be a short term answer on any team to improve...but if you don't give him the pieces, his career will get cut short.

Fire Haley
04-27-2009, 12:22 PM
You know, if Sanchez turns out to be a winner the Browns will have PASSED on yet another franchise QB.

I can already hearing the screaming.

19ward86
04-27-2009, 12:28 PM
Bengals won the draft this year i believe, sucks to say, but it is probably true.

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 12:30 PM
You know, if Sanchez turns out to be a winner the Browns will have PASSED on yet another franchise QB.

I can already hearing the screaming.

There's scheme to consider too. Chad Pennington, no matter how good he plays, would be a terrible QB for the Steelers, because he can't hit the deep through consistently enough. What kind of QB is Sanchez...because the NFL is all about system players fitting in with a given scheme.

I don't like the odds when we haven't had a chance to see BQ. Then again, I don't like the QB competition, because DA has proven he's not the answer. Trade DA for a future pick (even a 5th/6th rounder next year) and give the reigns to BQ. We received our backup QB when we dropped to the 17th.

If we sign Sanchez, then we have to consider monetary value as well. Who do we have to get rid of to keep him? Since Savage overpaid for DA, BE, Stallworth, Rogers and (DE) Williams, we'd have quite the dilemma on our hands. Maybe, if Stallworth actually get's charged, we can recoup some of the money from signing him and free up some cap space.

thumper
04-27-2009, 12:44 PM
Analysis: It was thought that the Steelers would take the best offensive tackle available at the No. 32 spot, but Pittsburgh became yet another team that ignored the likes of Arizona's Eben Britton to select the defensive lineman Hood. The pick makes some sense, given the age of Steelers linemen Casey Hampton (32) and Aaron Smith (33), though Ben Roethlisberger probably won't cut down on his Advil supply while playing behind Pittsburgh's shaky o- line again in '09. The Steelers did address the line with its third-round pick, and though Urbik is listed by most services as a guard, he could eventually develop into a tackle at the next level. Wallace, more of a kick returner than receiver, was a third-round reach. Lewis is a big corner but is not viewed as being tough, and will need some polish. Like Wallace, Burnett's best chance as a return guy. The fire hydrant-like Summers is a fullback candidate.

Bottom Line: Steelers didn't need a ton of immediate impact players, but could have done better in shoring up the offensive line and secondary.

Grade: C+

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/wires/story/1020006-p4.html

I think this review may be being a little too kind of Pgh's failure at drafting some o-line quality, but they basically lay it out towards reality.

Crow-Magnon
04-27-2009, 01:06 PM
Losing Rex Ryan will be their downfall.
You watch.

RayRay will be screaming at his coaches even more now.

I will miss Ryan, but the same was said when Marvin Lewis left and when Mike Nolan left, too.

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 01:06 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/wires/story/1020006-p4.html

I think this review may be being a little too kind of Pgh's failure at drafting some o-line quality, but they basically lay it out towards reality.

Ahh, the Miami Herald...the experts on all things Pittsburgh football related. Great source. Then, to top it off, you give us a link to their breakdown of the NFC.

Now, there is a link to NFL Grades (http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2009/04/26/20/HA1D_050427.source.prod_affiliate.56.pdf) and it has every AFCN team with a B+ except for Cincy (with a B).

LVSteelersfan
04-27-2009, 01:09 PM
The existing O-line will perform just fine with a year of continuity plus the fact we are playing the likes of the Clowns twice, Bungles twice, Detroit Lions, Miami Dolphins, Oakland Raiders, Denver Broncos, Kansas City Chiefs (none of whom have decent defenses and that is over half our schedule). I don't think the line will be as bad as it was last year even though they probably won't be stellar. That defense will still be a monster to contend with. I think this year's team will be as good or better than last years and the offense is going to be much better.

Fire Haley
04-27-2009, 01:19 PM
There's scheme to consider too. Chad Pennington, no matter how good he plays, would be a terrible QB for the Steelers, because he can't hit the deep through consistently enough. .

No - Pennington would be terrible because he's no Big Ben.

2 Super Bowl Rings say you're wrong.

Hines0wnz
04-27-2009, 01:26 PM
There's scheme to consider too. Chad Pennington, no matter how good he plays, would be a terrible QB for the Steelers, because he can't hit the deep through consistently enough.

I'd love to see Pat White take his job later in the season.

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 01:34 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/wires/story/1020006-p4.html

I think this review may be being a little too kind of Pgh's failure at drafting some o-line quality, but they basically lay it out towards reality.

this guy runs a really good blog (and no, he's not a Steelers fan):

http://walterfootball.com/offseason2009pit.php



2009 NFL Draft Grade:

It all starts on Draft Day, and as you can see by how talented this class is, there's a reason the Steelers are Super Bowl contenders year in and year out.

Pittsburgh drafted for positions of high value with its first two selections. Evander Hood should be able to take over for Aaron Smith soon, while Kraig Urbik could make a strong push at right guard.

The Steelers made a number of great value picks that filled needs in Day 2, including Mike Wallace (receiver for Hines Ward's eventual departure), Keenan Lewis (corner depth needed), Joe Burnett (more corner depth and return specialist) and Frank Summers (power back). A.Q. Shipley was a steal in Round 7. He could push Justin Hartwig out of the starting center gig.

Grade give on 4/27/09: A+



2009 NFL Draft Picks:

32. Evander Hood, DE/DT, Missouri
Aaron Smith's successor. This is a good spot for Evander Hood, who fills a need. With Alex Mack off the board, this was the right move. (Pick Grade: A)

79. Kraig Urbik, G, Wisconsin
Kraig Urbik is solid value and fills a position of need. Ben Roethlisberger has to love this selection. (Pick Grade: A)

84. Mike Wallace, WR, Ole Miss
The Steelers needed receiving depth. Mike Wallace is a solid talent and presents good value here. Based on these picks, it's no surprise that the Steelers are contenders year in and year out. (Pick Grade: A)

96. Keenan Lewis, CB, Oregon State
Keenan Lewis was a fringe second-round prospect and he fills a need. Another very nice choice by the Steelers. (Pick Grade: A)

168. Joe Burnett, CB, Central Florida
Another corner? Well, it's a need, and Joe Burnett fits this draft range. He can also be a return specialist. (Pick Grade: B)

169. Frank Summers, RB, UNLV
I mocked Frank Summers to the Steelers a round later. He can be the power, goal-line back they've been looking for since Jerome Bettis retired. (Pick Grade: B)

205. Ra'Shon Harris, DE/DT, Oregon
More depth up front is never a bad idea. This is Ra'Shon Harris' draft range. (Pick Grade: B)

226. A.Q. Shipley, C, Penn State
One of the top picks in the entire 2009 NFL Draft in terms of draft and positional value. A.Q. Shipley could have been a third-round pick, and he could be an upgrade over Justin Hartwig. (Pick Grade: A)

241. David Johnson, TE, Arkansas State
Heath Miller's contract is coming up, so David Johnson is a bit of insurance. Johnson provides OK depth here. (Pick Grade: B)

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 01:49 PM
I'd love to see Pat White take his job later in the season.

One of my best friends is a Dolphins fan and a WVU fan. He LOVES that draft choice. I think White has the potential to be a decent QB in the NFL. He doesn't have the arm strength that Vick did...but then again, he's far more accurate. Plus, with the Wildcat becoming somewhat prominent in the NFL, you've found the perfect guy to run it.

Ravnet
04-27-2009, 02:15 PM
Losing Rex Ryan will be their downfall.

Right, because losing Marvin Lewis, Mike Nolan, Jack Del Rio, Mike Smith, and Mike Singletary hurt us so damn badly.

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 02:17 PM
Right, because losing Marvin Lewis, Mike Nolan, Jack Del Rio, Mike Smith, and Mike Singletary hurt us so damn badly.

How many Super Bowls did you win after losing those guys?

Ravnet
04-27-2009, 02:19 PM
How many Super Bowls did you win after losing those guys?

How many Super Bowls did we win with Rex Ryan?

Anyway, your point is entirely irrelevant; more importantly, our defense didn't fall off at all.

Fire Haley
04-27-2009, 02:32 PM
You just hope you can replace Bart Scott.

Who is your D coordinator now anyway?

The_WARDen
04-27-2009, 02:37 PM
You just hope you can replace Bart Scott.

Who is your D coordinator now anyway?


Ray Ray....

Fire Haley
04-27-2009, 02:38 PM
duh - I knew that!

Will the Ratbirds be getting glitter helmets like the Jags now too?

Ravnet
04-27-2009, 02:42 PM
You just hope you can replace Bart Scott.

Bart Scott was a true legend, and replacing him looks to be an impossible task.

Steel Head
04-27-2009, 02:43 PM
Bart Scott was a true legend

most overrated player ever?

most pregame talk with least showing on the field?

Ravnet
04-27-2009, 02:50 PM
most overrated player ever?

I agree that he was overrated, and therefore his loss wasn't at all monumental...

xfl2001fan
04-27-2009, 02:53 PM
Bart Scott was a true legend, and replacing him looks to be an impossible task.
Are you in need of a sarcasm smiley because you followed this up with:
I agree that he was overrated, and therefore his loss wasn't at all monumental...

X-Terminator
04-27-2009, 02:55 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/wires/story/1020006-p4.html

I think this review may be being a little too kind of Pgh's failure at drafting some o-line quality, but they basically lay it out towards reality.

You really are dense, aren't you? Why in the hell should we care what the Miami frickin Herald thinks? That would be like the Post-Gazette giving their expert analysis on the New York Giants draft.

Ravnet
04-27-2009, 02:55 PM
Are you in need of a sarcasm smiley because you followed this up with:

Yes; sarcasm doesn't translate over the internet.

Rek
04-27-2009, 04:40 PM
[QUOTE=Crow-Magnon;597543]How can I argue that? Look at how many Steeler fans were talking about whether Big Ben was good enough to win it all last year? But Flacco has definitely shown promise, especially when he basically had one go-to WR last year (Mason) until Clayton started to come around. All I know is that compared to most Ravens QB's of the past, Flacco shows a lot of promise, especially with that cannon of an arm.

It's ok. You've had starters like Tony Banks and Kyle Boller, we've had Kordell, Mike Tomzack, and Jim Miller. :sofunny:
I'd call it a draw.

Crow-Magnon
04-28-2009, 08:57 AM
[QUOTE=Crow-Magnon;597543]How can I argue that? Look at how many Steeler fans were talking about whether Big Ben was good enough to win it all last year? But Flacco has definitely shown promise, especially when he basically had one go-to WR last year (Mason) until Clayton started to come around. All I know is that compared to most Ravens QB's of the past, Flacco shows a lot of promise, especially with that cannon of an arm.

It's ok. You've had starters like Tony Banks and Kyle Boller, we've had Kordell, Mike Tomzack, and Jim Miller. :sofunny:
I'd call it a draw.

Sorry, but you seem to be forgetting the stellar Scott Mitchell, the "Water Buffalo", and that wunderkind Stoney Case. :laughing:

Fire Haley
04-28-2009, 10:18 AM
I know one thing - either the Browns or Jets fans are gonna be swallowing the Drano with the Sanchez pick.
It's a win/win either way to me.

Browns passed on Sanchez and Crabtree and a host of others - their boards are in full alibi mode.

Browns blunder continues because they could have asked for Denver's #1 next year and settled for way less.



Meanwhile, Harrison and Woodley's newest cincy competition

http://morningbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/2l9lh50.jpg

xfl2001fan
04-28-2009, 10:31 AM
I know one thing - either the Browns or Jets fans are gonna be swallowing the Drano with the Sanchez pick.
It's a win/win either way to me.

Browns passed on Sanchez and Crabtree and a host of others - their boards are in full alibi mode.

Browns blunder continues because they could have asked for Denver's #1 next year and settled for way less.

Meanwhile, Harrison and Woodley's newest cincy competition

I like this. There's no possible way for the Browns to win this because...

We passed on Sanchez (a QB with 16 starts that has Bust written all over him) and Crabtree (a supposed non-diva that talks about himself in third person) to get more draft picks and save money, but it's a bad thing. Rrrriiiight.

Denver's #1 next season (a Kyle Orton led offense) for what? What would we have given up for their #1 next year? Until such time that there is a rookie wage scale, #1 picks aren't worth near as much as 2s and 3s. You save a boat load by trading down and you also have the benefit of getting more chances to get the crapshoot known as a draft right. And this is a bad thing. Rrrrriiight.

Tell me where the blunder is? We don't want divas (or players who refer to themselves in first person) and we don't want QBs with no game experience. We want to address the lines and get them right. We want to build a foundation so that when we do find a QB that's worth hanging on to, he has all the tool necessary to compete.

And that picture is just NASTY. :sofunny:

rbryan
04-28-2009, 10:40 AM
The Browns were smart to pass on both of those players IMO. The Sanchez hype is amusing to me, seems better suited to be a spokesmodel than a QB.....but what do I know.

Bottom line....if you're going to miss as badly as the Browns usually do on draft day, you might as well lessen the blow by missing on 2nd and 3rd rounders instead of the colossal financial blunder of missing on a 1st rounder.

Fire Haley
04-28-2009, 10:44 AM
if you're going to miss as badly as the Browns usually do on draft day, you might as well lessen the blow by missing on 2nd and 3rd rounders instead of the colossal financial blunder of missing on a 1st rounder.

Good point.

Or Mangini is already gunshy of making decisions after the Favvvvvvre debacle.

rbryan
04-28-2009, 10:50 AM
The Favre debacle set the Jets back 5 years IMO.

Its NY.......what do you expect. Style over substance is the norm. They had to make some kind of splash, even if if it was the wrong move. Sanchez will keep the fans happy......for this year. The Jets will worry about the future when it gets here.

revefsreleets
04-28-2009, 11:46 AM
I know one thing - either the Browns or Jets fans are gonna be swallowing the Drano with the Sanchez pick.
It's a win/win either way to me.

Browns passed on Sanchez and Crabtree and a host of others - their boards are in full alibi mode.

Browns blunder continues because they could have asked for Denver's #1 next year and settled for way less.



Meanwhile, Harrison and Woodley's newest cincy competition

http://morningbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/2l9lh50.jpg


GET IN MAH BELLY!

rbryan
04-28-2009, 12:29 PM
Notorious BIG

Dude needs some underarmor.... 4XL.

I see no reason whatsoever for the decision to go topless..