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View Full Version : Unger/Gilbert vs. Hood/Urbick.... Better value?


tony hipchest
04-29-2009, 09:52 PM
looking how the draft unfolded we couldve easilly had our pick of unger/robinson/britton/beatty and j. gilbert in the second.

instead we go with hood and urbick. from a talent and grade standpoint it seems urbick has just as good of a shot to be a pro-bowl lineman as any of the others i listed, plus he essentially landed us an additional 3rd round pick at the expense of our 4th rounder.

ziggy seems like a sure bet, whereas j. gilbert was littered with unknowns.

so as the draft played out it proved that for those uf us who wanted mack or wood, it wouldnt have been a reach at #32 whereas the other 4 i list wouldve. gilbert proved to be a reach at #64 (not a big one) and woulda been a huge reach at #32.

on the flipside, z. hood fell to us, and we were able to move back and not reach for urbick.

im wondering if the majority sees it like me, that we totaly maximized value in this draft, or if there are those who still wished we woulda gone with the gilbert/other OL combo.

(personally i was hoping oher was gonna continue to fall a bit).

ShutDown24
04-29-2009, 10:08 PM
I am much happier with Ziggy Hood and Kraig Urbik than I would have been with Jarron Gilbert and Max Unger.

I think Hood has the talent and work ethic to be an amazing 3-4 DE for YEARS to come.

SunshineMan21
04-29-2009, 10:08 PM
Personally, I was hoping for Oher as well, and if it was possible I would have traded up.

But in our situation, with the picks that we had, I think we did quite well. I prefer Hood to Gilbert and I'm a big Urbick fan--might have taken Beatty/Britton/Loadholt over him, but in the third he was a great value.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-29-2009, 10:30 PM
I agree with Shutdown 24. I didnt want Max Unger as a Steeler.

I personally mocked for Eben Britton and Jarron Gilbert, then Donald Washington in the 3rd. Could have moved Colon to RG and then have either Tony Hills or Britton play RT.

7willBheaven
04-30-2009, 12:06 AM
I have no problem with how they did things...they moved down what like 14 spots from #64 to...then moved up like 40+ spots when they traded their 4th rounder...that there alone (the 4th rounder moving up) is a huge plus...and they won in this deal even going by the draft trade value chart thing.

As far as the picks...in reality i never looked into either of them much before the draft...but since they have been drafted i really like what i see. And think both of them (along with some of the other picks) will be very good players. Though i def wouldnt have minded Oher...i would have easily given up our 1st and a 5th rounder like the Ravens didnt...hell even our 4th rounder i would have been up...but oh well...i'm still happy with things.

MasterOfPuppets
04-30-2009, 01:08 AM
hindsight bein 20./ 20, sure makes it a lot easier to knock the prospects....so what if we don't take urbik in the 3rd, and someone else picks him in the 5th ? would anyone still be thinking he's 3rd rd value ?

tony hipchest
04-30-2009, 01:13 AM
hindsight bein 20./ 20, sure makes it a lot easier to knock the prospects....so what if we don't take urbik in the 3rd, and someone else picks him in the 5th ? would anyone still be thinking he's 3rd rd value ?


well, just about nobody agrees that the raiders 2nd round safety was 2nd round value, despite the fact that he was infact drafted in the 2nd round. :noidea:

from what ive seen and read, as top 2-4 guard prospect, there was no way urbick was going to slip into the 5th.

SunshineMan21
04-30-2009, 02:15 AM
Yeah, I was under the impression that we took Urbick right around where he was projected.

I agree with El-Gonzo Jackson . . . I didn't want Unger. Not that he's a bad player, but he didn't really fit our scheme--more of a zone blocking guy.

I basically wanted a tackle--that's my only criticism of how the FO handled the first two rounds--but given that we would have had to either trade up or pass on Hood to get Oher, Beatty, or Britton, I understand the FO's decision.

Although, it's interesting to speculate that we were trying to grab Beatty, Loadholt, or Unger in the second round . . . Colbert has publicly said that we were trying to trade up, but failing that, traded down. This makes me think that one of the O-linemen they had rated higher than Urbick was available for part of the second but once he was off the board they decided Urbick was the best remaining guy anyway.

55BaileyFan
04-30-2009, 09:14 AM
I agree with Shutdown 24. I didnt want Max Unger as a Steeler.

I personally mocked for Eben Britton and Jarron Gilbert, then Donald Washington in the 3rd. Could have moved Colon to RG and then have either Tony Hills or Britton play RT.

I'm glad we didn't get Donald Washington. He had one decent not good college year and thought hey I love money lets go to the NFL. He'll be out of the league in 3 years. I liked the Urbik pick, I think he was one of the better guards in the draft. I wasn't a huge fan of the Hood pick. I liked Connor Barwin of Cincy and Ron Brace of BC.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-30-2009, 10:17 AM
I'm glad we didn't get Donald Washington. He had one decent not good college year and thought hey I love money lets go to the NFL. He'll be out of the league in 3 years. I liked the Urbik pick, I think he was one of the better guards in the draft. I wasn't a huge fan of the Hood pick. I liked Connor Barwin of Cincy and Ron Brace of BC.

Maybe you are right with the Washington assessment. I just thought that he was a more physical run support CB and the knock on Keenan Lewis was that he wasnt physical in coming up to support the run.

I like Lewis a ton as a cover guy and think he is probably one of the top 3 cover guys in the draft. As for Hood. He may finally bring a to the DE position a guy with size and motor to collapse the pocket on 3rd downs and get after the QB......which I find pretty cool.

ShutDown24
04-30-2009, 04:50 PM
I liked Connor Barwin of Cincy and Ron Brace of BC.

I liked Brace a ton too, but I liked Hood just a little more going into the draft. Now, looking back on it I'm really glad we got Hood instead of trying to get Brace in the second round or making an extreme reach for him in the first.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-30-2009, 06:04 PM
I liked Brace a ton too, but I liked Hood just a little more going into the draft. Now, looking back on it I'm really glad we got Hood instead of trying to get Brace in the second round or making an extreme reach for him in the first.

Brace was really less than impressive at the Senior Bowl week. He was a guy that had a bull rush and was hard to move, but looked to get tired fast because he was so heavy. Hood is way more active and dynamic, but both are different players.

Hood is better than Keisel and an active DE. Brace looked to be another version of the Cardinals Gabe Watson. A big space eater and not much more.

triphahn
04-30-2009, 08:35 PM
At this point you can't compare Hood to Gilbert. Gilbert has potential but Hood is way more solid coming out of college. I really never liked Unger for the Steelers. Just hope Shipley develops.

ShutDown24
04-30-2009, 08:41 PM
Brace was really less than impressive at the Senior Bowl week. He was a guy that had a bull rush and was hard to move, but looked to get tired fast because he was so heavy. Hood is way more active and dynamic, but both are different players.

Hood is better than Keisel and an active DE. Brace looked to be another version of the Cardinals Gabe Watson. A big space eater and not much more.

Pretty much agree. I think I like Brace a little more than you do, but I'm much happier with Hood than I would have been with the alternative.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-01-2009, 01:16 AM
Pretty much agree. I think I like Brace a little more than you do, but I'm much happier with Hood than I would have been with the alternative.

I liked Brace if we could have got him in the 2nd round. Could probably be the replacement for Hampton if we cant sign him in 2010. I just dont think he brings more value to the D line than Hood.

paw-n-maul-u
05-12-2009, 04:19 AM
Honestly, what does it even matter if there is supposed "better value" with Unger/Gilbert than Hood/Urbik.

Honestly, I don't evaluate the draft as to whether or not it is going to make Mel Kiper happy and give us a good draft grade; the only thing extra that would immediatley come out if we had gone a different route, is maybe a two second blurb from one of the talking heads regarding how we got a "steal" etc etc.

Sure, Unger might have been able to come in and immediately supplant stapleton, not to mention give us a long term option at Center.

However, Unger was the weakest of all the top Centers in the draft, I don't think he could hold his own like Wood or Mack could vs. the big boys.

I look at it like this, when we got Urbik, he was still in the top five guards available in the whole draft.

Had we gone OC/G first then DT ... and Picked a DT in the third, It would have been like the tenth best DT.

potatoes potatoes,

steelwall
05-12-2009, 06:15 AM
The fact is getting out of the 32nd 2nd round and getting 3, 3rd rounders prob saved us a good deal of money....we got alot of proven vetrens that will need to be signed this year. And with out losing major players in FA, I'm not unhappy saving money and getting some quality picks, 2 of which has a chance to start at some point this year on a superbowl winning team... I'm fine with it.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 08:12 AM
in case you haven't figured it out yet, Gilbert doesn't fit the 3-4

tony hipchest
05-12-2009, 09:58 AM
in case you haven't figured it out yet, Gilbert doesn't fit the 3-4

:toofunny:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 10:32 AM
:toofunny:

What Tony??.............Pat Kirwin said Gilbert is a 5-technique and a poster here said he isnt. Steelersfever members always know more than your boy Pat. :rulez:

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 10:58 AM
What Tony??.............Pat Kirwin said Gilbert is a 5-technique and a poster here said he isnt. Steelersfever members always know more than your boy Pat. :rulez:

Maybe he is laughing because he wanted the Steelers to draft Gilbert at #32 and he fell all the way to #68? :noidea:

Maybe he should have emailed Colbert the video of Gilbert jumping out of a swimming pool? I mean he jumped out of a swimming pool man! He is teh awezzomes

tony hipchest
05-12-2009, 11:42 AM
:point:

Maybe he is laughing because he wanted the Steelers to draft Gilbert at #32 and he fell all the way to #68? :noidea:

Maybe he should have emailed Colbert the video of Gilbert jumping out of a swimming pool? I mean he jumped out of a swimming pool man! He is teh awezzomes


in case you haven't figured it out yet, Gilbert doesn't fit the 3-4

care to elaborate mr. football scout? or are you too teh awzzzzzomes? :yawn:

while youre at it, explain why gilbert doesnt fit the 3-4 but hood does. :hatsoff:

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 11:54 AM
while youre at it, explain why gilbert doesnt fit the 3-4 but hood does. :hatsoff:

yeah, Hood isn't exactly a prototypical 3-4 DE but he seems like he is the tougher guy in the trenches when compared to Gilbert

We don't need some finesse guy at DE, we need someone who is tough and won't get pushed around

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 12:53 PM
yeah, Hood isn't exactly a prototypical 3-4 DE but he seems like he is the tougher guy in the trenches when compared to Gilbert

We don't need some finesse guy at DE, we need someone who is tough and won't get pushed around

Gilbert was not a "finesse guy". He played DT at SJSU and recorded more tackles behind the LOS than anybody else in the NCAA. Yes, even more than Tyson Jackson. Gilbert was the most dominant player at the East West Shrine game and I personally had a mock of Eben Britton #32, Jarron Gilbert #64, Donald Washington #96.

Gilbert is more of a pure 3-4DE than Hood, but John Mitchell coveted Hood for his motor and character. I am fine with Ziggy Hood, but to say Jarron Gilbert doesnt fit a 3-4 is just incorrect.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 01:17 PM
Gilbert is more of a pure 3-4DE than Hood, but John Mitchell coveted Hood for his motor and character. I am fine with Ziggy Hood, but to say Jarron Gilbert doesnt fit a 3-4 is just incorrect.

Well I wasn't high on Unger and Gilbert before the draft so I definitely prefer Hood and Urbik

tony hipchest
05-12-2009, 01:27 PM
Gilbert was not a "finesse guy". He played DT at SJSU and recorded more tackles behind the LOS than anybody else in the NCAA. Yes, even more than Tyson Jackson. Gilbert was the most dominant player at the East West Shrine game.not to mention he was the collegiate pool jumping champion, and runner up to "jumping over car guy" for All-Collegiate Athelete of the year award. he was also on the 2008 olympic team for the underwater handstand event. :sofunny:

his combine work out showed explosion and power. i think any knocks on him coulda been coached out of him, especially on a team like the steelers where he was granted time to sit and learn.

if we werent so lucky to have z. hood drop in our laps, im certain j. gilbert woulda been taken at #64.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 01:37 PM
Well I wasn't high on Unger and Gilbert before the draft so I definitely prefer Hood and Urbik

Agree, I was not an Unger or Levitre fan. I would rather have had Wood, Mack or Urbik. I was fine with getting Gilbert in the 2nd round, but the Steelers would have to judge his attitude and motor. They clearly coveted Hood, so it made drafting Gilbert unnecessary.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 01:38 PM
his combine work out showed explosion and power. i think any knocks on him coulda been coached out of him, especially on a team like the steelers where he was granted time to sit and learn.

if we werent so lucky to have z. hood drop in our laps, im certain j. gilbert woulda been taken at #64.

The question about Gilbert was strength of opposition and motivation/intensity. The interviews would have unearthed that and I think the Bears got a deal at the top of round 3 on him.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 01:55 PM
Agree, I was not an Unger or Levitre fan. I would rather have had Wood, Mack or Urbik. I was fine with getting Gilbert in the 2nd round, but the Steelers would have to judge his attitude and motor. They clearly coveted Hood, so it made drafting Gilbert unnecessary.

who would you rather have:

Wood and Gilbert or Urbik and Hood?

Too bad Wood didn't fall to us, I think we would have definitely taken him

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 02:20 PM
who would you rather have:

Wood and Gilbert or Urbik and Hood?

Too bad Wood didn't fall to us, I think we would have definitely taken him

I think Wood and Gilbert. Could have got Tyronne Green or Duke Robinson in the 4th round and got a good guard.

Wood
Gilbert
Lewis
Robinson
Summers
Burnett

would have been fine by me.

Galax Steeler
05-12-2009, 06:18 PM
I think Wood and Gilbert. Could have got Tyronne Green or Duke Robinson in the 4th round and got a good guard.

Wood
Gilbert
Lewis
Robinson
Summers
Burnett

would have been fine by me.

The guy you listed at no.5 is the one I wanted and we landed him hope he proves he is worth a roster spot when season comes around.

MasterOfPuppets
06-16-2009, 08:41 PM
I think Wood and Gilbert. Could have got Tyronne Green or Duke Robinson in the 4th round and got a good guard.

Wood
Gilbert
Lewis
Robinson
Summers
Burnett

would have been fine by me.
i liked our draft, but i woulda been thrilled with that scenerio