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View Full Version : Big ben in top three QB's?


onefortheotherhand
05-02-2009, 01:15 AM
NFL network is always hatin on big ben and saying that hes not in the top 3 QB's and im gettin annoyed bout it

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady(if that knee doesn't affect him which hopefully it will) are a obvious choices but is their anyone else who wins games like ben? is clutch like ben? makes all the big throws like ben? who scrambles and dodges defenders like theres no tommrow? wellllll i dont think so :doh:

ShutDown24
05-02-2009, 01:33 AM
At this point in all of their careers, and I'm not even being a homer - completely objectively, I think I might have Ben number one right now. At least sharing the spot with Brady in my opinion.

Crushzilla
05-02-2009, 01:41 AM
Brady has the three rings and the touchdown record.

Manning will break all of the QB records.

After that, though, I can't think of who else it can be.

The two super bowls and 4th quarter dominance are more than enough.

Ben will continue to be overshadowed by the defense. Those not in the know will continue to insist that he was handed those two Super Bowls by LeBeau.

Let them think what they want; we know what's really going on.

scsteeler
05-02-2009, 01:55 AM
If you rate the QB's just on Passing Yardage and TD's then Ben will no rank very high. Now if you rate him on what I think is important to a winning team like willing to be ok with handing the ball of to the RB's in order to shorten the game, make the big throws when needed, driving the team in for a needed TD when the game is on the line. Willing to take the hit in order to make a play and winning games overall I would say he is in the Top 2 QB's and number 1 based on just coming off a Super Bowl win and game winning drive.

Terry Bradshaw did not start getting his just due until he won his 3rd Super Bowl and I guess Ben will have to do the same. I see the Ben having 4 SB wins if not 5.

Hey It may not mean much but he gets my vote as the best QB in the NFL right now.

steelreserve
05-02-2009, 03:49 AM
Oh, hell. They'll never give Ben that kind of honor. It'll go Brady, Manning, and then if there's any question, they'll make sure the next honor goes to someone like Chad Pennington or Trent Green.

steeltheone
05-02-2009, 05:10 AM
Who really cares as long as we keep winning? At the end of the day, he will get his recognition.

stillers4me
05-02-2009, 05:23 AM
Fantasy footaball stats has ruined what really matters. Winniing.

And Ben....wins....games. Period.

Galax Steeler
05-02-2009, 06:29 AM
I don't see why Ben would not rank in the top three. The man has proven time and time again that he can get it done when he needs to. So why not give Ben the props.

AllD
05-02-2009, 06:46 AM
Bradshaw never had huge stats in the regular season. What made him one of the top 3 QBs of all time is his 4-0 stat in Super Bowl wins.

This current Steeler team reminds me a lot of the 1970s team. The team arose from the garbage pile in 1972 with the biggest play in NFL history until SB XLIII. Some characteristics of dominance were true back then also such as the Steel Curtain, LBers, Franco, Swann and Stallworth. The team started off as a tough running team and then evolved into a well balanced, but with a flying circus passing game.

All Ben needs is a SB MVP and his legendary status will be galvanized. It is so close I can smell it. If we stay healthy, history will be made.

steelwall
05-02-2009, 06:55 AM
Fantasy footaball stats has ruined what really matters. Winniing.

And Ben....wins....games. Period.

Yeap.

Dragonrider
05-02-2009, 07:24 AM
couldn't agree more stillers4me and AIID

scsteeler
05-02-2009, 07:45 AM
Bradshaw never had huge stats in the regular season. What made him one of the top 3 QBs of all time is his 4-0 stat in Super Bowl wins.

This current Steeler team reminds me a lot of the 1970s team. The team arose from the garbage pile in 1972 with the biggest play in NFL history until SB XLIII. Some characteristics of dominance were true back then also such as the Steel Curtain, LBers, Franco, Swann and Stallworth. The team started off as a tough running team and then evolved into a well balanced, but with a flying circus passing game.

All Ben needs is a SB MVP and his legendary status will be galvanized. It is so close I can smell it. If we stay healthy, history will be made.

I somewhat stated this in my earlier comment. Bradshaw did not win MVP until his 3rd SB win.

Kaeg
05-02-2009, 08:01 AM
If you really want Ben to be considered the number 1 QB by the media, it's very simple..........Knock off Brady and have him join the *Patriots.

Hotrodder07
05-02-2009, 08:31 AM
Ben will not be considered to be elite until he wins his 3rd or 4th ring. They don't love him like Brady and Manning because he's not the conventional quarterback. He's not a dropback and get the ball away quick kind of guy. He doesn't throw for 350+ yards a game. What he is, is a winner. He knows how to win games, and he always has. Without this guy, we would have been no where near Superbowl XLIII last year.

It's all about statistics now, and that is probably because of how big Fantasy Football has become. He doesn't have to throw 35 times a game, because our run game is usually pretty strong. So then the media says he "Manages the Game." It makes me mad, but oh well, let 'em think what they want. Let this be motivation to you Ben!

fansince'76
05-02-2009, 08:35 AM
NFL network is always hatin on big ben and saying that hes not in the top 3 QB's and im gettin annoyed bout it

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady(if that knee doesn't affect him which hopefully it will) are a obvious choices but is their anyone else who wins games like ben?

Just out of curiosity, who did NFLN name as #3? Romo, Brees or Rivers, who between them collectively have 2 fewer rings than Ben? :coffee:

CPanther95
05-02-2009, 08:43 AM
Ben is underrated as often as Rhomo is overrated.

skinart82
05-02-2009, 08:56 AM
Nothing makes me madder than THIS debate! Brady is a wimp, he wouldn't take a hit if the superbowl was on the line...and the little pretty boy is afraid of getting his uniform dirty. Manning even thinks about pressure and those feet almost ware a hole in the ground and then he wines and pouts about it. Don't even get me started on romo, this little punk needs to win A playoff game before he even gets ranked above John Kitna for Christ sake. Rivers is about as reliable as a glass nail, and they think he's some tuff guy for playing A game with a hurt knee....try winning it all with a broke thumb or a torn shoulder or a bum knee! And personally if you have to throw for 300+ yards a game....YOUR DEFENSE SUCKS!!! There will never be another QB like Ben and I thank God he is a Steeler!

onefortheotherhand
05-02-2009, 09:39 AM
ben is like the definition of a franchise QB he wins games any way he can and it may not be pretty but he does what he has too

RoethlisBURGHer
05-02-2009, 10:27 AM
Ben Roethlisberger, IMHO, is the best QB in the NFL.

He's the PERFECT quarterback for this team. He's tough, he's smart, he makes the big plays when the big plays need made.

IMHO, when his career is over (a long time and quite a few more Super Bowl rings.....and a few SB MVP's away)...the big highlight play of his career will be the winning TD pass to Holmes in SB XLIII.

steeltheone
05-02-2009, 10:42 AM
You can't down Brady . He is a winner period. Same as Ben.

SteelersMongol
05-02-2009, 10:52 AM
At least McFarlane's thinks so. :wink02:

http://www.starworldtoys.com/shop/catalog/images/mcf_nfl3pack_qbs.jpg

CPanther95
05-02-2009, 11:16 AM
They should've added McNabb and Rhomo and made it a 5 pack. Then the "Choking Hazard" warning on the bottom right would make more sense.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-02-2009, 11:33 AM
Who really cares as long as we keep winning? At the end of the day, he will get his recognition.

Ahhhhhh........the voice of reason. :thumbsup:

I honestly dont think Ben is top 5 in the NFL and he may not make a pro bowl in the next few years........but he may win another Lombardi and that is all that counts.

Psyychoward86
05-02-2009, 11:36 AM
Who really cares as long as we keep winning? At the end of the day, he will get his recognition.

This......Those analysts are just mad because Ben doesnt always do well on their fantasy teams.

stillers4me
05-02-2009, 11:42 AM
They should've added McNabb and Rhomo and made it a 5 pack. Then the "Choking Hazard" warning on the bottom right would make more sense.

:toofunny:

STEELAMANIA
05-02-2009, 12:42 PM
If the Steelers defense was a weak defense then the Steelers offense would be a Rams, Colts, Broncos, shoot-out offense trying to outscore the other team by throwing the ball every down. Because of the DEFENSE the Steelers have, the Steelers stay balanced on offense and can pound the ball in the 4th to run out the clock instead of Ben throwing the ball for 200 yards in the 4th qtr to play catchup like other teams qbs who have no DEE. Steeler football is not a shoot-out scoring contest, fantasy football, flag football crap in which a qb can muster up 4000 or 5000 yards a season to make his stats look good.

Stlrs4Life
05-02-2009, 12:51 PM
I don't care what they say, we know what we got in Ben. A proven winner, that's all that matters.

fansince'76
05-02-2009, 01:28 PM
I don't care what they say, we know what we got in Ben. A proven winner, that's all that matters.

And a big, selfish, overpaid spoiled brat, right? :rolleyes:

Ben needs to sit. He is not a Team player, and nothing but a big Over paid Spoiled Brat. Ben hasn't looked good since, I don't know when. Maybe against the Bungles.

bigjamesharrison2
05-02-2009, 01:35 PM
Unfortunately, he will never be there in the minds of fans, other than the steelers. He isn't flash enough and takes to many sacks. But at least he wins the super bowls.

OX1947
05-02-2009, 01:39 PM
QBs in the NFL are judged by titles. Stats mean nothing in the NFL unless you win titles. Up until Manning won in 06, he was considered a choker, that with an up standing disposition and stats up the ying yang. If Big Ben keeps winning Super Bowls and throwing for 17 TDs a year, he will be considered one of the best.

Vincent
05-02-2009, 02:45 PM
I don't give a @#$% what talking heads say about anything.

Put Ben behind the Caucasians and all the holding they do and he's undefeated and has a perfect game every outing. Cassel proved that much.

Put Marsha behind our line and he's out of the league in a year.

Ben is a winner. Period. @#$% statistics. Give us Ws. I think when all is said and done, he'll be the best of all time in terms of wins and rings.

Rek
05-02-2009, 04:24 PM
Manning = 1 SB, Big Ben = 2 SB

Manning < Big Ben

It's simple logic really.

St33lersguy
05-02-2009, 08:07 PM
Q: is their anyone else who wins games like ben?
A: no
Q: is clutch like ben?
A: no
Q: makes all the big throws like ben?
A: no
Q: who scrambles and dodges defenders like theres no tommrow?
A: no

Big Ben is the best QB in the NFL. Who has won 50 games in his 1st 5 years
Elway? no
Favruh? no
Golden boy? no
Peyton? no
Big Ben? yes

St33lersguy
05-02-2009, 08:11 PM
They should've added McNabb and Rhomo and made it a 5 pack. Then the "Choking Hazard" warning on the bottom right would make more sense.

True, although it makes sense with Peyton on the end given all his playoff chokes.

steel striker
05-02-2009, 09:05 PM
This really ticks me off and, as usual the talking heads have no idea what a real clutch qb is. Oh wait they saw the best clutch qb in the super bowl with that winning drive but, they are blind for there love of Warner. If they can't name Ben in the top three now they have lost their minds. I'm sure the so called experts will still rate guys like Romo who has not even won a playoff game ahead of Ben. Well atleast we know the truth Ben is a big time clutch qb and, I'm glad he is on our team.

Edman
05-02-2009, 09:46 PM
Don't bring up the SB's argument around the pundits. Somebody will come up with the ol' Trent Dilfer < Dan Marino argument. Difference here is that Roethlisberger is not Trent Dilfer. A perennial journeyman loser before he stepped on board with a team with a record setting defense.

And if Ben is such an overrated bum, why did the Steelers have such a hard time winning in the playoffs? I know plenty of stacked Steelers teams that faltered in the playoffs because we lacked the QB that could pick up some of the slack when teams shut down our running game.

Anyway, I don't care what Ben's statistics or what awards he wins. As long as he wins.

fansince'76
05-02-2009, 09:54 PM
Don't bring up the SB's argument around the pundits. Somebody will come up with the ol' Trent Dilfer < Dan Marino argument.

The Trent Dilfer argument was always bunk to begin with, but it went completely out the window this past February 1st when Ben became a multiple SB winner. Journeyman/caretaker QBs like Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, etc., etc., don't have more than one ring.

Hammer Of The GODS
05-02-2009, 10:15 PM
You can't down Brady . He is a winner period. Same as Ben.

HUH? Brady plays on a team that has been CAUGHT cheating to get where they are. NOT THE SAME AS BEN!

EFF Brady!

I don't give a @#$% what talking heads say about anything.

Put Ben behind the Caucasians and all the holding they do and he's undefeated and has a perfect game every outing. Cassel proved that much.

Put Marsha behind our line and he's out of the league in a year.

Ben is a winner. Period. @#$% statistics. Give us Ws. I think when all is said and done, he'll be the best of all time in terms of wins and rings.

Excellen post. When the whole world was watcing the SuperBowl and the REFS were "accountable" and actually calling the holding Marsha got his ARSE handed to him!


EFF THOSE GD CHEATING ASS patriots!

onefortheotherhand
05-03-2009, 12:22 AM
pats been eatin them CHEATIES

MongoSteeler
05-03-2009, 02:14 AM
Lets just hold off on that argument for another year. Let's see how gunshy Brady has become with that knee and how Peyton does without Marvin. We all know that Big Ben does whatever it takes to get the win, and if that's not enough to put him in the top 3, oh well, I guess we'll just collect #7 with our ragtag offense lead by a lesser calibre quaterback who may never make it into everyone elses top whatever........
To all Steeler Fans he'll always be Number 1.

steelwall
05-03-2009, 03:35 AM
At least McFarlane's thinks so. :wink02:

http://www.starworldtoys.com/shop/catalog/images/mcf_nfl3pack_qbs.jpg

Bammmm!!! put that in your pipes and smoke it haters...:laughing:

Edit: to rephrase the warning lable in the bottom right....

Caution do not choke on all the rings....b!ches....

steelerchad
05-03-2009, 07:32 AM
I would put Ben at #3 in the league right now behind Brady and P. Manning. The fact is he's got alot more career left than either of thos e2 guys. He's only 5 years in and don't forget he came out of college as a junior. This guy already has 2 rings in 5 years, which should be the ultimate factor in judging a QB's worth (winning).

There will be those that say the defense has aided him and I would agree, but they should also consider that he hasn't had the o-line protection that the other 2 have had. This is a much larger factor when looking at a QB's stats. The defense can help you win games and even put you in good field position, but rarely can they help you pile up offensive passing stats like yards, TD's, and comp. %. In fact, they may also hurt yardage totals by giving you a short field.

Also, something that many probably don't know is that in the 5 years Ben's been in the league only P. Manning has been in the top 5 in QB rating more. Ben has been in the top 5 in this stat 3 times. Even Brady has only been in the top 5 twice.

Passer rating is not the end all for evaluating a QB, but it's a heck of alot fairer than just using yards, TD's, or comp. %. It rolls up all the stats into 1 number.

In my opinion, this guy is #3 now, with upside to end up at number 1 with 2 more rings and 5 or 6 more solid seasons.

I think Payton's run is done as the Colt's are on the downside of their run in my opinion. Brady may also be done coming off of the kneee injury. Palmer is still not the same after a similar injury and I believe Brady's supporting cast continues to get weaker. Especially since they can't steal signals anymore.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-03-2009, 08:01 AM
Why would the sports casters rank Big Ben a top 3 when his own fans......Were calling for Lefy to replace Ben in the middle of the year last year on several post on this board???

I personally think he should be 4th
Manning
Brady
Warner
Big Ben

Steely McSmash
05-03-2009, 09:45 AM
This is a stupid arguement and I think it makes you all dumber for taking part in it.

CPanther95
05-03-2009, 11:03 AM
Fixed:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e286/CPanther95/mcf_nfl3pack_qbs2.jpg

Rek
05-03-2009, 11:08 AM
This is a stupid arguement and I think it makes you all dumber for taking part in it.

Good to know. We'll consult your opinion at the next forum meeting.

stillers4me
05-03-2009, 11:37 AM
Fixed:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e286/CPanther95/mcf_nfl3pack_qbs2.jpg

It took me a minute to find what you did...........still LMAO! :applaudit:

Rek
05-03-2009, 11:48 AM
Fixed Again:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3576/3496995615_8a8e8da78c_o.jpg

CPanther95
05-03-2009, 11:55 AM
Even better.

Steelman16
05-03-2009, 01:11 PM
It's not an accurate representation.

Pretty Boy still has too much dirt on his uniform. :chuckle:

austinfrench76
05-03-2009, 01:14 PM
Brady has his rings and Manning has his records but, in the heat of battle at the end of the game I would take BEN over ANY other QB in th league. Even if we don't win, IMO, he gives you th ebest chance. I'm dead serious, I take him over any other QB in the league right now and maybe behind Elway and Favre, ever!

ben2hines=6
05-03-2009, 02:34 PM
big ben will never get the respect he deserves...he is top three and by far the toughest SOB in the league...nobody takes the hits and continues to play at his level....ill take the brees arguement i hear a lot but the arguement i cant take hearing is tony homo

Mags87
05-03-2009, 02:53 PM
big ben will never get the respect he deserves...he is top three and by far the toughest SOB in the league...nobody takes the hits and continues to play at his level....ill take the brees arguement i hear a lot but the arguement i cant take hearing is tony homo

i love drew brees. He's a great person and one hell of a gunslinger. But Big Ben is all the QB i'll ever need (at least on the pro level, my school needs a QB bad!)

St33lersguy
05-03-2009, 05:06 PM
big ben will never get the respect he deserves...he is top three and by far the toughest SOB in the league...nobody takes the hits and continues to play at his level....ill take the brees arguement i hear a lot but the arguement i cant take hearing is tony homo

I won't. Drew Brees is just a passer. he has nowhere near the toughness nor heart Big ben does

St33lersguy
05-03-2009, 05:12 PM
Fixed Again:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3576/3496995615_8a8e8da78c_o.jpg

:toofunny:

Psyychoward86
05-03-2009, 05:21 PM
Brees has an infinitely better O-line protecting him and a lot more weapons (That's not to say that we dont, but the Saints just happen to have THAT many). He got sacked 13 times in 635 pass attempts on his way to his finest season. Coincidence? I think not. Brees wouldnt be able to breath behind our O-line.

triphahn
05-03-2009, 05:58 PM
There are other QB's out there with better stats but Ben is just a flat out winner the most important stat of all. I think the game winning drive in the superbowl cemented him as one of the top three.

St33lersguy
05-03-2009, 06:41 PM
Brees has an infinitely better O-line protecting him and a lot more weapons (That's not to say that we dont, but the Saints just happen to have THAT many). He got sacked 13 times in 635 pass attempts on his way to his finest season. Coincidence? I think not. Brees wouldnt be able to breath behind our O-line.

Plus Ben would put up drastic numbers with that kind of offensive supporting cast

ben2hines=6
05-05-2009, 05:37 PM
ben is undoubtably a better qb, im just saying that ill take that arguement from somebody, ill argue them to the bone about it but i can understand where that person may be coming from...yes if ben had his protection his numbers would sky rocket, the arguement" but if brees had his defense behind him he would have a super bowl or two"....u can only laugh at the ben haters nemore

LVSteelersfan
05-05-2009, 09:06 PM
You know why Ben doesn't get the credit he deserves? Because he can't get the ball in the end zone on almost every trip into the red zone. Until he can do that on a consistent basis, he will not get his due. Not that it is a proper measuring tool, but Brady, Manning, Brees, McNabb get the ball in the freakin end zone when the get inside the 20. It is not Ben's fault necessarily. A lot of it has to do with Arians and his stupid red zone playcalling. True Steeler fans know what Ben truly is and that is all that matters.

Steel Head
05-05-2009, 09:23 PM
Ben is definitely top 3, maybe top 2, maybe best player in the NFL

NEPAsteeler
05-05-2009, 09:54 PM
Ben is Ben. We know what he does for the Steelers and that's all that matters.

paw-n-maul-u
05-05-2009, 10:29 PM
You know why Ben doesn't get the credit he deserves? Because he can't get the ball in the end zone on almost every trip into the red zone. Until he can do that on a consistent basis, he will not get his due. Not that it is a proper measuring tool, but Brady, Manning, Brees, McNabb get the ball in the freakin end zone when the get inside the 20. It is not Ben's fault necessarily. A lot of it has to do with Arians and his stupid red zone playcalling. True Steeler fans know what Ben truly is and that is all that matters.

not to burst your bubble ... but you didnt completely think through this whole statement.

Ben's rookie year he had the #1 TD percentage in the NFL ... NUMBER ONE.

and in 2007 ... he had the #2 ... NUMBER TWO. Sure, you can argue this year that he was in the bottom half of the league, but does that really matter? He has a piece of Jewelry that will comfort him, I'm sure.

He get's the ball in the endzone, and he does it when it counts<<<(which is MOST important).

Did Peyton manning lead a game winning drive vs. the steelers in 2005? NO

Did Tom Brady lead a game winning drive vs. the giants in the Superbowl? NO

Did Ben Roethlisberger lead a game winning drive vs. the cardinals in the superbowl? YES

I mean you can nit pick at stats (if you know them :chuckle:) all you want ... but the fact of the matter is, Ben is the most clutch quarterback in the NFL. Period. He's clutch in the biggest of big games, and if he slipped up on ANY of the steelers game winning drives that he engineered this year, the Steelers don't have a first round bye and could have lost the division title, or even the superbowl.

He's the tits and ass. top three for sure, and until Peyton gets back to the big game, and Brady shows no sign of ill-effects from his COMPLETELY reconstructed knee, I don't know how you CANT put him in the top three.

LVSteelersfan
05-05-2009, 11:38 PM
not to burst your bubble ... but you didnt completely think through this whole statement.

Ben's rookie year he had the #1 TD percentage in the NFL ... NUMBER ONE.

and in 2007 ... he had the #2 ... NUMBER TWO. Sure, you can argue this year that he was in the bottom half of the league, but does that really matter? He has a piece of Jewelry that will comfort him, I'm sure.

He get's the ball in the endzone, and he does it when it counts<<<(which is MOST important).

Did Peyton manning lead a game winning drive vs. the steelers in 2005? NO

Did Tom Brady lead a game winning drive vs. the giants in the Superbowl? NO

Did Ben Roethlisberger lead a game winning drive vs. the cardinals in the superbowl? YES

I mean you can nit pick at stats (if you know them :chuckle:) all you want ... but the fact of the matter is, Ben is the most clutch quarterback in the NFL. Period. He's clutch in the biggest of big games, and if he slipped up on ANY of the steelers game winning drives that he engineered this year, the Steelers don't have a first round bye and could have lost the division title, or even the superbowl.

He's the tits and ass. top three for sure, and until Peyton gets back to the big game, and Brady shows no sign of ill-effects from his COMPLETELY reconstructed knee, I don't know how you CANT put him in the top three.

I was not really busting on Ben. Last year and his lack of red zone production made it look to the media like it was his fault. I was blaming it on Arians, not Ben. If he would quit throwing those really STUPID INTs which he tends to do a little bit too much, then he would be respected much more. I love Ben as much as any true Steeler fan. But people who don't follow the Steelers closely and the media have this perception he is a big lumbering oaf who makes too many mistakes to be in the top 3 in the league. I don't agree with them. Ben is the man. He is just not a media darling. And probably never will be.

Pi Kapp Steeler
05-05-2009, 11:47 PM
i think if we get this Oline fixed , you will see a lot out of jaw dropping stats from ben in the next couple of years.

X-Terminator
05-06-2009, 12:05 AM
I was not really busting on Ben. Last year and his lack of red zone production made it look to the media like it was his fault. I was blaming it on Arians, not Ben. If he would quit throwing those really STUPID INTs which he tends to do a little bit too much, then he would be respected much more. I love Ben as much as any true Steeler fan. But people who don't follow the Steelers closely and the media have this perception he is a big lumbering oaf who makes too many mistakes to be in the top 3 in the league. I don't agree with them. Ben is the man. He is just not a media darling. And probably never will be.

And any real Steelers fan should give a shit what the media thinks because...?

They can fall in love with Brees, Romo, Palmer, whoever...but until they actually win something meaningful, they ain't shit in my eyes, especially Choke-mo. And yet, they will all be mentioned before Ben, when in reality they couldn't carry his jockstrap. Ben will never be about the sexy stats - he'll probably never throw for 40 TDs and 4500 yards like those guys do. But he has 2 things that those guys will never have - championship rings. Ben wins games, period, and there is no other QB in the league I want with the game on the line and the ball in his hands. Not even Brady or P. Manning.

Brady (if healthy)
P. Manning
Ben

End of discussion.

paw-n-maul-u
05-06-2009, 01:57 AM
I just wonder how many more years it takes before it becomes obvious that it is

#1 Ben

#'s 2-32 Everyone else

I think that if Ben gets another ring in the next 3 years, w/ Peyton and Brady missing out, it shouldn't even be a competition.

mmalone
05-06-2009, 02:13 PM
It is not Ben's fault necessarily. A lot of it has to do with Arians and his stupid red zone playcalling. True Steeler fans know what Ben truly is and that is all that matters.


arians is the problem and its not just in the redzone. it is how he gets us into these awful 3rd and 4 situations. then gets ben clobbered on the 3rd down blitz and then the punt team comes out... 1st and 2nd downs he usually runs parker into the line and 3rd down he forces ben to pass. well the defenses see this easily. The OL has no chance. there is no trickery or counter plays to the blitzes. watch Tom Brady, no running back usually, you know he will pass, but he always has the counter blitz man open or a short pass over the middle option available and then a medium-short slant man coming from somewhere. the blitz doesnt have time to work on brady often. ben has to wait for three receivers to go 20 yards down the field most of the time without any short outlets. when mewelde is in he at least is an outlet and it usually works for him on a counter play, but what maybe 2 times a game you see it?? it is frustrating.

Cheppy
05-06-2009, 03:05 PM
At this point in all of their careers, and I'm not even being a homer - completely objectively, I think I might have Ben number one right now. At least sharing the spot with Brady in my opinion.

Same here.. There isn't anyone else I'd rather have behind center in a big game than Ben. So great to have him as our qb.

Peyton Manning is one of the most overrated players in history. If he's not playing the Broncos or Chiefs in the playoffs then he plays that sap sucka he is. Everything has to be perfect for that guy. Once there's a little pressure put on him he starts to get happy feet and plays like someone who's afraid. Textbook example was the epic 05 division playoff game that will forever live in Steelers lore. And I seem to remember him throwing his whole offensive line under the bus during the postgame conference too. (overrated & a douche)

Shit, the main reason the Colts won it all in 06 was because their run defense all of a sudden played out of their minds during the stretch run. And one need not to look any further for proof of Manning being grossly overrated then when he was voted super bowl mvp. 1 td, 1 int, 1 fumble lost, qb rating of 81.8. Dominic Rhodes, 113 rushing yds, 1td. Joke..

I'd like to see how well he'd play with our offensive line in front of him. (brady too for that matter) Does any analyst or so-called "expert" ever bring that point up? Of course not..

stlrtruck
05-06-2009, 03:09 PM
Ben is Ben. We know what he does for the Steelers and that's all that matters.

Wins Super Bowls - and you're right, that's all that matters!!!! :thumbsup: :drink:

Stover4Prez
05-06-2009, 04:01 PM
I agree with most of you that Big Ben is a strong contender for number three. And he does have a lot of qualities that you need in a QB to perform under pressure, but he is only as good as he is because of the team he is on. Your defense is sick, and your running game is solid taking a ton of pressure of Ben.

While you argue stats don't matter, he led the league last year in fumbles and fumbles lost as a QB, was 4th worst in INTs and the middle of the pack for a majority of the passing and rushing categories. Now I agree that he brings a good amount of intangibles and toughness to your offense, but I think the unbiased statistics are what keep him out of the #1 QB discussion.

As a Raven's fan I definitely have a ton of respect for him, but I don't think as soley a QB, he is number 1 yet. Time will tell of course....

Cheppy
05-06-2009, 04:05 PM
I agree with most of you that Big Ben is a strong contender for number three. And he does have a lot of qualities that you need in a QB to perform under pressure, but he is only as good as he is because of the team he is on. Your defense is sick, and your running game is solid taking a ton of pressure of Ben.

While you argue stats don't matter, he led the league last year in fumbles and fumbles lost as a QB, was 4th worst in INTs and the middle of the pack for a majority of the passing and rushing categories. Now I agree that he brings a good amount of intangibles and toughness to your offense, but I think the unbiased statistics are what keep him out of the #1 QB discussion.

As a Raven's fan I definitely have a ton of respect for him, but I don't think as soley a QB, he is number 1 yet. Time will tell of course....

You think Brady or Manning would play nearly as well with the Steelers offensive line in front of them? The answer is a resounding no. Big game, I'll take Ben over anyone with the possible exception of Brady. Manning, please...

Vincent
05-06-2009, 04:20 PM
big ben will never get the respect he deserves..

Bradshaw didn't either. And here we are. Bradshaw is where? Stabler is where? Pastorini is where? Ben is just turning 27. What lies ahead? OMG.

i cant take hearing is tony homo

With the passage of the "hate crime" bill, that'll buy you 10 years in the "pokey" (if you catch my drift).

CPanther95
05-06-2009, 05:04 PM
With the passage of the "hate crime" bill, that'll buy you 10 years in the "pokey" (if you catch my drift).

That's why I call him Rhomo. Sounds the same, but it's still in there. :chuckle:

stlrtruck
05-07-2009, 06:21 AM
I agree with most of you that Big Ben is a strong contender for number three. And he does have a lot of qualities that you need in a QB to perform under pressure, but he is only as good as he is because of the team he is on. Your defense is sick, and your running game is solid taking a ton of pressure of Ben.

While you argue stats don't matter, he led the league last year in fumbles and fumbles lost as a QB, was 4th worst in INTs and the middle of the pack for a majority of the passing and rushing categories. Now I agree that he brings a good amount of intangibles and toughness to your offense, but I think the unbiased statistics are what keep him out of the #1 QB discussion.

As a Raven's fan I definitely have a ton of respect for him, but I don't think as soley a QB, he is number 1 yet. Time will tell of course....

You're right in that having a great defense has helped Ben out. And while he continues to take his lumps, do you think Flacco would have performed so well without the help of the ravens defense?

And really, I could care less if his stats are the best in the league. I think we'd both agree I'd rather have more Super Bowls than the #1 player in any position. This is a team sport and it requires all 53 men on the roster knowing their role and playing it out 110%.

I would say he'll never get to the top 3 because he's not the "fantasy" QB that Manning, Brees, Rivers, and Brady represent.

Dino 6 Rings
05-07-2009, 07:29 AM
SuperBowl.

1st and 20 at their own 12 yard line. 2:24 left in the game, down by 3.

1-20-PIT 12 (2:24) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes to PIT 26 for 14 yards (29-D.Rodgers-Cromartie).
2-6-PIT 26 (2:00) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to 85-N.Washington (47-A.Francisco).
Two-Minute Warning
3-6-PIT 26 (1:56) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes to PIT 39 for 13 yards (58-K.Dansby).
1-10-PIT 39 (1:33) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 85-N.Washington to 50 for 11 yards (24-A.Wilson).
1-10- (1:08) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger scrambles up the middle to ARI 46 for 4 yards (56-C.Okeafor, 58-K.Dansby).
Timeout #2 by PIT at 01:02.
2-6-ARI 46 (1:02) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes to ARI 6 for 40 yards (47-A.Francisco).
Timeout #3 by PIT at 00:49.
1-6-ARI 6 (:48) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to 10-S.Holmes.
2-6-ARI 6 (:42) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN. The Replay Assistant challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld.
(Kick formation) 3-Je.Reed extra point is GOOD, Center-61-J.Retkofsky, Holder-17-M.Berger.

Dino 6 Rings
05-07-2009, 07:30 AM
Enough Said. Debate over.

mmalone
05-07-2009, 08:12 AM
ding - exactly, ben goes no huddle, arians can't run parker up the middle, parker looks good. ben looks great the steelers move up the field. the OL looks solid, ben is on his feet. the defense doesnt know what the next arian play is. we win the super bowl..... its Arians..... not parker, not ben, not the OL its the play calling.....

stlrtruck
05-07-2009, 08:28 AM
ding - exactly, ben goes no huddle, arians can't run parker up the middle, parker looks good. ben looks great the steelers move up the field. the OL looks solid, ben is on his feet. the defense doesnt know what the next arian play is. we win the super bowl..... its Arians..... not parker, not ben, not the OL its the play calling.....


Maybe that's what the OL needs. Go No-Huddle so the OL doesn't have time to think about it. Just read and react!

mmalone
05-07-2009, 09:02 AM
here is a normal arians series of plays, he does these every game at least twice a quarter if he has time.. any defense playing us doesnt have to review much film on us, its the same every week. our offense is to easy to read. until we go no huddle.

1st quarter ravens championship game.. follow this: Pittsburgh Steelers at 10:20 BAL PIT
1st and 10 at PIT 36 (10:20) W.Parker left guard to PIT 38 for 2 yards (T.Pryce, R.Lewis).
2nd and 8 at PIT 38 (9:37) W.Parker right tackle to PIT 37 for -1 yards (H.Ngata).
3rd and 9 at PIT 37 (8:53) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 29 for -8 yards (H.Ngata).
4th and 17 at PIT 29 (8:25) (Punt formation) M.Berger punts 42 yards to BLT 29, Center-J.Retkofsky. J.Leonhard MUFFS catch, and recovers at BLT 27. J.Leonhard to BLT 27 for no gain (W.Gay).

Rek
05-07-2009, 02:26 PM
here is a normal arians series of plays, he does these every game at least twice a quarter if he has time.. any defense playing us doesnt have to review much film on us, its the same every week. our offense is to easy to read. until we go no huddle.

1st quarter ravens championship game.. follow this: Pittsburgh Steelers at 10:20 BAL PIT
1st and 10 at PIT 36 (10:20) W.Parker left guard to PIT 38 for 2 yards (T.Pryce, R.Lewis).
2nd and 8 at PIT 38 (9:37) W.Parker right tackle to PIT 37 for -1 yards (H.Ngata).
3rd and 9 at PIT 37 (8:53) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 29 for -8 yards (H.Ngata).
4th and 17 at PIT 29 (8:25) (Punt formation) M.Berger punts 42 yards to BLT 29, Center-J.Retkofsky. J.Leonhard MUFFS catch, and recovers at BLT 27. J.Leonhard to BLT 27 for no gain (W.Gay).

So basically you're saying BA sucks, FWP sucks, Big Ben sucks, and the O-line sucks...:coffee:

Stover4Prez
05-07-2009, 03:00 PM
You're right in that having a great defense has helped Ben out. And while he continues to take his lumps, do you think Flacco would have performed so well without the help of the ravens defense?

And really, I could care less if his stats are the best in the league. I think we'd both agree I'd rather have more Super Bowls than the #1 player in any position. This is a team sport and it requires all 53 men on the roster knowing their role and playing it out 110%.

I would say he'll never get to the top 3 because he's not the "fantasy" QB that Manning, Brees, Rivers, and Brady represent.

I agree with everything you said. You all have the number 1 team no doubt, but Big Ben isn't going to get #1 QB recognition until he becomes a more superstar impact player. Now before everyone gets up in arms, he is spectacular down the stretch in the last 5 minutes of games to put together game winners. My argument is that if he could play consistently like that throughout the game, there would be little reason for a nail biting clutch performance. Reduce the turnovers, thus putting less pressure on the D, and the margin of victory will go up as will his position in the QB argument. Of course at the end of the day, #1 and #2 were sitting home in February, so who really cares!

The_WARDen
05-07-2009, 03:27 PM
Bradshaw never had huge stats in the regular season. What made him one of the top 3 QBs of all time is his 4-0 stat in Super Bowl wins.

This current Steeler team reminds me a lot of the 1970s team. The team arose from the garbage pile in 1972 with the biggest play in NFL history until SB XLIII. Some characteristics of dominance were true back then also such as the Steel Curtain, LBers, Franco, Swann and Stallworth. The team started off as a tough running team and then evolved into a well balanced, but with a flying circus passing game.

All Ben needs is a SB MVP and his legendary status will be galvanized. It is so close I can smell it. If we stay healthy, history will be made.

If his name was Manning, he would've already had an MVP from that last drive in the SB.

fansince'76
05-07-2009, 03:33 PM
If his name was Manning, he would've already had an MVP from that last drive in the SB.

Or Brady, or Rivers, or McNabb, or Brees, or Romo....

HometownGal
05-07-2009, 03:55 PM
here is a normal arians series of plays, he does these every game at least twice a quarter if he has time.. any defense playing us doesnt have to review much film on us, its the same every week. our offense is to easy to read. until we go no huddle.

1st quarter ravens championship game.. follow this: Pittsburgh Steelers at 10:20 BAL PIT
1st and 10 at PIT 36 (10:20) W.Parker left guard to PIT 38 for 2 yards (T.Pryce, R.Lewis).
2nd and 8 at PIT 38 (9:37) W.Parker right tackle to PIT 37 for -1 yards (H.Ngata).
3rd and 9 at PIT 37 (8:53) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 29 for -8 yards (H.Ngata).
4th and 17 at PIT 29 (8:25) (Punt formation) M.Berger punts 42 yards to BLT 29, Center-J.Retkofsky. J.Leonhard MUFFS catch, and recovers at BLT 27. J.Leonhard to BLT 27 for no gain (W.Gay).

Want to tell me what this thread has to do with Bruce Arians? :doh::banging:

It's getting closer to football season - I see the B & M'ers are sprouting. :rolleyes:

mmalone
05-07-2009, 03:58 PM
So basically you're saying BA sucks, FWP sucks, Big Ben sucks, and the O-line sucks...:coffee:

1st quarter ravens championship game.. follow this: Pittsburgh Steelers at 10:20 BAL PIT
1st and 10 at PIT 36 (10:20) W.Parker left guard to PIT 38 for 2 yards (T.Pryce, R.Lewis).
2nd and 8 at PIT 38 (9:37) W.Parker right tackle to PIT 37 for -1 yards (H.Ngata).
3rd and 9 at PIT 37 (8:53) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 29 for -8 yards (H.Ngata).
4th and 17 at PIT 29 (8:25) (Punt formation) M.Berger punts 42 yards to BLT 29, Center-J.Retkofsky. J.Leonhard MUFFS catch, and recovers at BLT 27. J.Leonhard to BLT 27 for no gain (W.Gay).

not at all.. BA and his play series i posted does stink... but look at the drives in the ravens game or any game when we need to score. ben rolls down the field, the sb at the end when ben rolls down the field. no huddle-no arians .

The series of high school plays i posted you can find numerous times in every game of the year. there is no deception, no trickery, no blitz counter plays. watch manning or brady and the palys they call, there is always an outlet short over the middle, off the side to the RB or a quick slant. they never hold the ball forever. arians has all the receivers running 20 yards down the field.. ben has to wait for the play to unfold and the OL to hold forever, and its usually on a 3rd and 8 and the blitz is on..... you tell me.... is it not arians??

stlrtruck
05-07-2009, 04:01 PM
I agree with everything you said. You all have the number 1 team no doubt, but Big Ben isn't going to get #1 QB recognition until he becomes a more superstar impact player. Now before everyone gets up in arms, he is spectacular down the stretch in the last 5 minutes of games to put together game winners. My argument is that if he could play consistently like that throughout the game, there would be little reason for a nail biting clutch performance. Reduce the turnovers, thus putting less pressure on the D, and the margin of victory will go up as will his position in the QB argument. Of course at the end of the day, #1 and #2 were sitting home in February, so who really cares!

I hear what you're saying but that truly isn't going to happen because of the people we have on the O-line. I personally belive that the more bumps a QB takes over the course of the year, the more prone he is to turning it over. With Ben holding on to the ball, trying to make plays it's a do or die situation. When he makes the plays, it's lights out and everyone jumps for joy. When he can't outrun the pressure, he's prone to either throwing it up or getting it knocked out of his hands.

What I saw from him late last year was he stopped trying to heave the long ball all the time when he was in trouble and just took the sack.

And you're right, if my #5 QB in the league is winning more Super Bowls than the #1 and #2, then who cares what stats he puts up. I mean really isn't the bottom line about the W's, the rings, and the Lombardis?

mmalone
05-07-2009, 04:02 PM
if ben had good offensive plays he would be #1

Dino 6 Rings
05-07-2009, 05:03 PM
If his name was Manning, he would've already had an MVP from that last drive in the SB.

I think they couldn't give it to Ben because stats wise, Warner had the better game, (minus the fumble at the end and the INT returned 99 yards)

Warner has 3 of the top QB performances ever in the Super Bowl. Couldn't very well give the MVP to the QB of the other team who's stats didn't add up.

But when you went to the receivers, Holmes had the better game over Fitzgerald.

Ben 21/30 for 256 yards 1 TD 1 INT
Warner 31/43 377 yards 3 TD 1 INT 2 Fumbles

Holmes 9 catches 131 yards 1 TD
Fitz 7 Catches 127 yards 2 Tds.

So technically, Holmes had more yards and more catches, Fitz had the better yard per catch average, but still, Holmes made the biggest play on offense in the game.

So you couldn't give it to Ben over Warner, and could give it to Holmes over Fitz.

I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

fansince'76
05-07-2009, 05:15 PM
I think they couldn't give it to Ben because stats wise, Warner had the better game, (minus the fumble at the end and the INT returned 99 yards)

Warner has 3 of the top QB performances ever in the Super Bowl. Couldn't very well give the MVP to the QB of the other team who's stats didn't add up.

Don't see why not, considering the fact that they gave the MVP to Golden Boy for SB XXXVI (http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/history/boxscore/sbxxxvi), even though Warner had 220 more passing yards than he did (365 vs. 145) and Vinatieri wound up winning the stinking game with his foot. :coffee:

CPanther95
05-08-2009, 01:19 PM
The haters will always find something to knock Ben.

'04: QBRating #5 (Manning #1, Brady #9) He wins his first 16 games and they use the AFCCG loss to say he doesn't have what it takes to win the big games.

'05: QBRating #3 (Manning #1, Brady #6) He's #3 in season, and despite horrendous SB statistics, he still finished with the #1 postseason QBR (#2 Manning #3 Brady, #4 Hasselbeck). Haters focus on the SB game and say his defense won him his ring.

'06 - Broke his face, lost his appendix (I'm giving him a Mulligan here.)

'07 QB Rating #2 (Brady #1, Manning #4). Again, lost a big playoff game.

'08 Bad QB Rating - won the SB, and performed well in the SB - but "his defense got him all the way to the SB"


Meanwhile, Rhomo finishes with a QBR that ranks #5, #5 and #8 - melts down at the end of the year - can't win a single playoff game - yet ranked by some morons as the #3 QB in the NFL. Go figure.

The_WARDen
05-08-2009, 02:46 PM
I think they couldn't give it to Ben because stats wise, Warner had the better game, (minus the fumble at the end and the INT returned 99 yards)

Warner has 3 of the top QB performances ever in the Super Bowl. Couldn't very well give the MVP to the QB of the other team who's stats didn't add up.

But when you went to the receivers, Holmes had the better game over Fitzgerald.

Ben 21/30 for 256 yards 1 TD 1 INT
Warner 31/43 377 yards 3 TD 1 INT 2 Fumbles

Holmes 9 catches 131 yards 1 TD
Fitz 7 Catches 127 yards 2 Tds.

So technically, Holmes had more yards and more catches, Fitz had the better yard per catch average, but still, Holmes made the biggest play on offense in the game.

So you couldn't give it to Ben over Warner, and could give it to Holmes over Fitz.

I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

All I'm saying is that Rhodes & Addai both had 100 yard games (or close to it) and were the main reason that the Dolts beat Da Bears...yet Manning gets the MVP.

The NY defense holds the best offense that the NFL has seen since the Greatest Show on Turf to 14 points...Manning has 1 drive and gets the MVP.

I also didn't know that "outplaying" your counterpart was a criteria for getting MVP.

The_WARDen
05-08-2009, 02:48 PM
Don't see why not, considering the fact that they gave the MVP to Golden Boy for SB XXXVI (http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/history/boxscore/sbxxxvi), even though Warner had 220 more passing yards than he did (365 vs. 145) and Vinatieri wound up winning the stinking game with his foot. :coffee:

I guess outplaying your counterpart doesn't matter if you're named Brady.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
05-09-2009, 09:07 PM
I can easily imagine Brady or Manning giving the old "slow jog" as Nick Harper scoops and scores.

FSUBoo
05-10-2009, 12:48 AM
Lol very true

steelwall
05-10-2009, 01:06 AM
I can easily imagine Brady or Manning giving the old "slow jog" as Nick Harper scoops and scores.


:chuckle: yeap... however, even if Brady would go after the tackle they'd get the defender for roughing the passer. :doh:

St33lersguy
05-10-2009, 09:34 AM
The NY defense holds the best offense that the NFL has seen since the Greatest Show on Turf to 14 points...Manning has 1 drive and gets the MVP.


and is crowned as elite only because of that one drive.

St33lersguy
05-10-2009, 09:46 AM
'08 Bad QB Rating - won the SB, and performed well in the SB - but "his defense got him all the way to the SB"


That was only because he was injured all year, played behind a s***ty OL that got him knocked down every other dropback, and a needle brained OC content with ben getting hit as much as he did. Put Gaydy, the Mannings (both the QB who has grat passing stats, & the Manning that sucks), and Tony Homo, and those guys will sit out atleast 8 games every year. Interesting how big ben leads a Montanaesque game-winning drive playing with broken ribs while Homo sits out a month because his pinky is sore

55BaileyFan
05-10-2009, 07:34 PM
I know I'm gonna get critized but I'm gonna put a different set of QB in my top 3. I'm basing it not on SB but how much they effect their teams.

1. Tom Brady (not even explaining it)
2. Ben Roethlisberger (2SB in his 5 years)
3. Chad Pennington (1-15 to playoff team)

I know, no Peyton Manning but if he is so good why does he have one ring and Eli who isn't anywhere near as good matches him? And did it in less time.

tmacsteelerfan
05-10-2009, 07:50 PM
I agree Peyton than Brady but nobody else after that wins games like Ben or is as clutch as Ben. I like the play of Drew Brees and he could be in there but Ben already has 2 rings.

Also the people who mention Philip Rivers in the converstation should never be aloud to talk football again. he might have the stats but almost every game his mistake will cost them the game plus he's got a candy arm. but you know how most analyis don't look past the stats.

The Duke
05-10-2009, 08:35 PM
I know I'm gonna get critized but I'm gonna put a different set of QB in my top 3. I'm basing it not on SB but how much they effect their teams.

1. Tom Brady (not even explaining it)
2. Ben Roethlisberger (2SB in his 5 years)
3. Chad Pennington (1-15 to playoff team)

I know, no Peyton Manning but if he is so good why does he have one ring and Eli who isn't anywhere near as good matches him? And did it in less time.

Interesting. I've always thought highly of Chad. He always seems to get criticized for his weak arm, but seems to get the job done with it. When it comes to stats he has the only one that really matters besides wins- Completion %

only thing that hurts him is, his bad playoffs performances. That alone gets him out of the top 5 for me. Top 10 definitely

and he's also injuy prone....

steelcurtain4392
05-12-2009, 08:42 PM
Bradshaw never had huge stats in the regular season. What made him one of the top 3 QBs of all time is his 4-0 stat in Super Bowl wins.

This current Steeler team reminds me a lot of the 1970s team. The team arose from the garbage pile in 1972 with the biggest play in NFL history until SB XLIII. Some characteristics of dominance were true back then also such as the Steel Curtain, LBers, Franco, Swann and Stallworth. The team started off as a tough running team and then evolved into a well balanced, but with a flying circus passing game.

All Ben needs is a SB MVP and his legendary status will be galvanized. It is so close I can smell it. If we stay healthy, history will be made.

with 2 in his first 4 years he's looking much like terry isnt he? :tt03:

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 09:21 PM
Ben is better than Peyton.

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 09:27 PM
Also the people who mention Philip Rivers in the converstation should never be aloud to talk football again. he might have the stats but almost every game his mistake will cost them the game plus he's got a candy arm. but you know how most analyis don't look past the stats.

I'm not sure you should be allowed to talk football again...

I'd take Rivers over Manning. He played pretty inspired football in the 07 playoffs when his knee was all jacked up. And what do you know, his team beat the overrated Manning's Colts that year. In the 08 playoffs, same matchup, same result. He's shown more guile & fortitude in 5 years than Manning has in 11.

With that said, he's a douchebag and I took great joy in watching Woodley slam his face into the Heinz Field turf:tt02: