View Full Version : And So It Begins (Bush vs. Young)

01-11-2006, 08:12 AM

Great article, and calls the QB question to mind about Vince Young. I've made it no secret that I think he's a QB project in the NFL, but I give him a lot of credit for what he did in 2005. Entering this year, nobody considered him an NFL QB candidate, and he's proven a lot of us wrong...whether he can make a go of it or not is another matter.

PS The article is a little long

01-11-2006, 02:02 PM
Jaworski's take on it...

Vince Young? Let's Hold The Hype

I watched him, just like everyone else did, in the Rose Bowl. Vince Young was phenomenal in that game, he did some things that I've never seen a college quarterback do and he won the national championship for Texas.

But in the NFL, Vince Young is going to meet a whole different animal: Defenses with high levels of sophistication, players who are just as fast as he is, and coordinators who have eaten up young quarterbacks many, many times over the years.

I'm not saying Young won't ever be a great NFL quarterback. I just want to hold the hype for now, because when people talk about Young revolutionizing the game like Randall Cunningham, hey, Randall never reached a Super Bowl and, in fact, had his greatest success late in his career when he learned to play from the pocket.

Before Young revolutionizes anything, he must learn to play the quarterback position. He must be a maestro of the position, not a running back playing quarterback.

Check out this stat: Of the 12 starting quarterbacks in this year's playoffs, they averaged 4.32 yards rushing PER GAME. Did I make that clear enough?

These run-around, mobile quarterbacks, yeah, they make plays, but that does not give you consistent play from the quarterback position.

When I project this guy into the NFL game, I don't see it yet. He has all kinds of athletic ability, but he needs to learn to play quarterback.

01-11-2006, 08:08 PM
that's all bullshit. just old ppl in denial that running qbs are gonna start taking over. vick damn near got to the superbowl running, look what happened when they tried to make him a pocket qb this year. look what happened to mcnabb this year trying to be a pocket passer. young is a playmaker whether anyone wants to believe it or not. what's the difference in throwing a ten yard pass or running a ten yards? it's still a first down. what's the difference between a 40 yard pass and a 40 yard run? not a damn thing, the ball still going down the field. and he may not win a superbowl but that doesn't mean he ain't good or isn't a success. marino never won a superbowl yet he's "great"

anyway i'd take vince over bush, cause bush showed everyone what he's gonna be like with a fast defense, and that's decent. everyone is fast in the nfl so him avg 10 yards a carry is gonna be like 4 yards a carry. when the titans draft vince he'll sit a year behind his mentor mcnair and will learn everything he needs to and when he's winning games after games i'm gonna pull this thread up and say i told ya'll so

01-11-2006, 08:16 PM
Relax, dude. You had to know this was coming...if nothing else, I prepared you for a little of it.

It looks like he'll be drafted in the 1st as a QB, so that's already proving all of us wrong. If you are that confident of his skills, than you really have nothing to worry about...

01-13-2006, 09:18 PM
Nonsense...trade the first pick for less expensive OL and additional picks. Before you dismiss it, think about it. Drafting Bush makes no sense, as he is NOT what the Texans need.

01-14-2006, 05:15 PM
I dont know why there is so much talk about running quarterbacks not making it? I mean i hate Michael Vick. But theres this one fella i heard of named Steve Young. He ran, and i heard he was pretty good:busted:

01-14-2006, 05:50 PM
I dont know why there is so much talk about running quarterbacks not making it? I mean i hate Michael Vick. But theres this one fella i heard of named Steve Young. He ran, and i heard he was pretty good:busted:

Yup, but he was an accurate passer who understood the position and all it's aspects...he was a QB who was athletic, not an athlete playing QB.

01-14-2006, 10:10 PM
And, they classify young as a running qb. I would call him a balanced qb, i mean look at his completion percentage. He was 4/4 to start out in the rose bowl. Then at the end of the first i think it was around 7/9 or something. Look at those stats, hes got both!! hes great as both!

01-15-2006, 12:37 AM
i thought this was a good article, even though i pretty much hate the writer of the article. i read it last night and it pretty much convinced me that texans are gonna take the best player available vince young

Some people involved in Houston Texans management sound as if they've talked themselves into making a far worse mistake than I did.

All I risked was getting trampled by a stampede of Longhorns e-mail telling me how I should be fired for picking Matt-Reggie-LenDale to out-Heisman Texas 35-17.

I felt pretty good about my prediction when a fourth Trojan who'll make NFL Pro Bowl teams -- Dwayne Jarrett -- slam-dunked the ball over the goal line to give "my" team a 38-26 lead. But Vince Young basically yawned, and grinned, and proceeded to make Matt-Reggie-LenDale-Dwayne look like third-rounders. Texas reigns, 41-38.

Lord (and the Longhorns) have mercy, did I ever underestimate Vincent Paul Young Jr.

An NFL personnel director who encouraged me to pick USC told me on Thursday: "That's the closest thing I've seen to Michael Jordan since he left Chicago. I watched this kid every game this year, and he just got better and better and better until you finally step back and say, 'I've never seen anything like him.' I don't want to hear another word about David Carr. The Texans will never live it down if they don't take Vince Young."

Never, ever.

This young man has a 6-foot-5, 235-pound blend of talent and intangibles never before seen in a quarterback. I don't want to hear another word comparing Young with Michael Vick or Daunte Culpepper or Randall Cunningham. He's in another stratosphere as a passer/runner/leader.

Young could eventually do for the Texans what he did for couldn't-win-the-big-one Mack Brown. Shrug, grin, watch this. Follow him, Texans, to the top.

But I'm preaching to a shrieking choir in Houston. Young is their native son -- a legendary product of Madison High School -- and Texans fans are like NASA rockets ready to launch on team management if it sticks with its original plan to take Reggie Bush.

Bush made it official Thursday: He's turning pro and he said he wouldn't mind at all if Houston took him with the No. 1 pick. After all, didn't it look suspiciously like the Texans gave it their all to lose the "Bush Bowl" in the season finale against San Francisco -- and win Reggie?

Indeed, if Reggie Bush avoids knee surgery, he'll be a Hall of Famer.

But Texans fans are right: Their team would be crazy not to take Vince.

"If they don't," says Houston Chronicle columnist Richard Justice, "they'll need an armed perimeter around the stadium to keep fans from storming it. Vince is all anyone is talking about."

So how in the name of Vince Young are so many national insiders, beginning with ESPN's Chris Mortensen and Mel Kiper, saying the Texans will take Bush?

Because that's what general manager Charley Casserly is saying. That's what advisor Dan Reeves indicated after a month of evaluating (and endorsing) quarterback David Carr. And according to Texans insiders, that's what the team's next head coach said he wanted when he was interviewed for the job.

The Houston Chronicle has reported that Denver offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak (who was recommended by Reeves) will be hired as soon as the Broncos' season ends.

Kubiak, Reeves and Casserly are traditional, conservative, by-the-book pro football men who obviously are thinking: So this kid had one great game against a bunch of guys who won't make it in our league. Running quarterbacks have always gotten hurt or gotten you beat in the National Football League, and that little wristy, sidearm flip of Vince Young's and his very average arm strength won't get it done against the likes of Champ Bailey and Sean Taylor.

We have a former No. 1 overall pick in David Carr, who has the talent but just needs some coaching and some blocking. We need the next Gale Sayers or Marshall Faulk. We need Reggie Bush.

Sound, but shortsighted, logic.

Which brings us to the man with the deciding vote: owner Bob McNair. Team sources say there's no way he'll allow his franchise to pass on a homegrown quarterback who could instantly turn Texans tickets into the hottest in town. Roger who?

Texans business staffers have half-joked that the team could double ticket prices the moment Young is selected on draft day. What an astonishing turnaround that would be for a Reliant Stadium that often felt more like a half-empty library during this season's home games.

Madison Avenue analysts are projecting Young could quickly become the NFL's most marketable star -- its LeBron, a Michael Vick who can live up to the hype.

Yet McNair won't insist on Young just to sell a few more tickets and make his two sons who graduated from Texas happy. No, McNair knows all that really matters is winning. Winning sells.

And McNair knows this about Vince Young: Above all else, he's a leader and a winner. His high school and college teammates believed in and followed him. That won't change in the pros.

And the Texans can risk letting Young fall to (and turn around) the New Orleans Saints? Or -- their worst nightmare -- the Tennessee Titans?

The Titans were the Houston Oilers -- until owner Bud Adams got a better deal and moved them to Nashville, Tenn. The last thing a Houston football fan wants to see is Vince Young win Bud Adams his first Super Bowl. That would haunt the Texans franchise for a long time.

The Titans pick third, after New Orleans. Titans quarterback Steve McNair has been a big brother to Young, and would love to teach him the ropes while playing one more season. Bob McNair cannot allow that to happen.

Furthermore, the Texans' owner cannot allow his team to sentence Reggie Bush to life as a Texan. Bush could be a combination Sayers/Faulk and still never quite live up to what Texans fans believe Young could be. Imagine Reggie flashing and dashing for, say, 65 yards on 15 carries in his rookie debut, and getting booed.

No, the Texans simply must take Young -- and trade Carr. That's the educated guess: That Carr will be paid the $8 million bonus that keeps him from becoming a free agent, then he'll be traded, possibly to Miami, hopefully for a first-round pick. Carr isn't bad. But he isn't Vince. He isn't much of a leader.

If the Texans take Young, it sounds like they'll also hire the offensive coordinator he came to believe in at Texas -- Greg Davis. No one knows better how to tailor an offense around Young's extraordinary gifts than Davis.

Davis knows there's one big difference between Young and Vick: Young is pass-first and runs only when he has to. Vick runs because he wants and needs to -- because that's what his shortsighted fans expect. Basically, if tight end Alge Crumpler isn't immediately and obviously open, Vick takes off.

Vick is still the NFL's most dangerous broken-field runner. But he's playing the wrong position. At what appears to be a shade under 6 feet, Vick has trouble seeing over Young-sized defensive linemen, and he still doesn't have much feel or rhythm for reading his progressions and finding and hitting open receivers.

Again, Young is 6-5, which allows him to get away with passing mechanics that will offend most NFL coordinators and draft geeks. But what amazed me most about the USC-Texas game was that Young repeatedly made the right decision and flicked quick-release passes that hit receivers right in the hands.

Remember, USC coach Pete Carroll was a highly respected NFL defensive coordinator, and he had 32 days to prepare for Young. He should have blitzed more. But even Carroll was intimidated by this kid's freakish ability.

The amazing thing about Young is that he throws and runs so effortlessly that you underestimate his velocity and quickness. He doesn't look like he's throwing hard -- but the ball sure gets there in a hurry. He doesn't look like he can get that 6-5 frame in gear too quickly -- yet he eases past blitzing linebackers and cornerbacks as if they're standing still. No defender ever seems to nail him with a good shot. He hits them harder than they ever hit him. He's stronger and more athletic than Culpepper.

He's deceptively Jordanesque.

I still say USC would win 7 of 10 games against Texas. Yet Vince Young overcame USC's 574 yards and 38 points with play after extraordinary play -- climaxing on fourth-and-5 from the 9-yard line. Make it or lose the national championship. Young glanced at one-two-three covered receivers, then took off from his 16 and beat the entire USC defense to the corner of the end zone untouched.

MJ over Cleveland's Craig Ehlo.

And some commentators are chortling that the Texans must wish LenDale White had gained another half-yard on that late fourth-and-2 so USC had won and the Texans could take Bush? No, the Texans should drop to their knees and give thanks they "won" the first pick the year In-Vince-ible was available.

Am I overreacting to one game? No. I've seen the light and the future: Vince Young of the Houston Texans.


01-15-2006, 04:24 PM
The lines are drawn...we all know where we all stand. It's in Vince's hands now. Can he prove his critics wrong in the NFL? We'll see...

01-15-2006, 09:31 PM
well i feel sorry for him cause he's gonna get booed a lot

Reggie Bush has long been assumed the top pick in the NFL draft, but after Vince Young's performance in the Rose Bowl, the Trojans wanted some assurance before the Heisman Trophy winner agreed to forgo his senior season.

USC sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen that coach Pete Carroll gave his blessing for Bush to turn pro only after being assured by Texans owner Bob McNair that the running back would be the No. 1 pick in the draft.

Young, a Texas native, led his Longhorns to a victory over the favored Trojans in the national championship and ignited a public frenzy demanding Houston select the quarterback instead of Bush.

However, the Texans appear to be sticking with their initial plan of drafting the running back -- a preference of the top candidate to become their head coach.

A Broncos source told Mortensen that Gary Kubiak, Denver's offensive coordinator and the favorite for the Texans' head coaching post, believes current Houston quarterback David Carr can flourish with a new offense headlined by Bush and wide receiver Andre Johnson.

Kubiak, a Houston native, is widely considered the likely successor to Dom Capers, who was fired as Texans coach on Jan. 2, one day after finishing a 2-14 season with a loss at San Francisco.

However, under NFL tampering rules, the Texans cannot comment about or finalize any moves involving Kubiak until the Broncos' season is over. Denver advanced to the AFC Championship Game with a 27-13 win over the New England Patriots on Saturday.


01-16-2006, 10:27 AM
I just don't get this...the texans have a proven NFL RB, and the last thing they need is a giant signing bonus and contract for another one who's unproven. If they pick up Bush, they should trade Davis for more picks...

02-06-2006, 08:40 AM
Nonsense...trade the first pick for less expensive OL and additional picks. Before you dismiss it, think about it. Drafting Bush makes no sense, as he is NOT what the Texans need.
I totally and 100% Agree with you. USC had 6 injured starters in the Rose Bowl that didnt play. And lossed Mike Patterson, Shaun Cody, Manual Wright and Lofa Tatupu to the draft last year, VY actually scored less points than Fresno State ! I dont think hes NFL ready either, and think he'll develop into a A. Brooks Steve McNair type