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mesaSteeler
05-09-2009, 10:52 AM
Wide gap between Ravens and Steelers
May 8, 8:29 AM
http://www.examiner.com/x-2962-Baltimore-Ravens-Examiner~y2009m5d8-Wide-gap-between-Ravens-and-Steelers

Tony Wisniewski
Go to Tony's Home Page

Baltimore Ravens Examiner


For Ravens to win North, Clayton could be the key

The opinion at One Winning Drive, in Owings Mills, differs greatly from the majoirty of the Ravens' fan base. "We got to the AFC Championship with the guys we have," said Ozzie Newsome.

While the Ravens did, in fact, get to the AFC Championship with the current receivers, they didn't fare so well--at least offensively.

In three games last season, the Pittsburgh Steelers out-received the Ravens 692 yards to 448 yards.

So, the question is, what will make this season any different? The Ravens have done little to atttempt to upgrade an already mediocre group. The Steelers, well, they're making moves--not huge ones--but moves none the less.

While it would make sense to do an overview of the entire AFC North, it's hard to put Cleveland and Cinncinnati in the same category as Baltimore and Pittsburgh. The aforementioned Browns and Bengals don't have the same caliber of defense as the Ravens and Steelers, and have not drafted near as well in the last five years. Although, the Bengals did a heck of a job in this year's draft and could close between them and the big dogs rather quickly if they continue to build their once putrid defense.

But this debate is about Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Let's take a look at how the receiving corps of these two heavyweights of the AFC North stack up:



BALTIMORE RAVENS

Additions- Marcus Maxwell, Isaiah Williams, Eron Riley (possibility of these minicamp attendees)
Subtractions- Terrance Copper
WR drafted since 2004- (8) Devard Darling, Clarence Moore, Derek Abney, Mark Clayton, Demetrius Williams, Yamon Figurs, Marcus Smith, Justin Harper.

Derrick Mason- While he's still productive, he's going on 36 and faces too much double-coverage.
Mark Clayton- Lacks the ability to make plays against the better teams.
Demetrius Williams- Even when healthy, he has done little to prove he's anything special.
Marcus Smith- Has yet to catch an NFL pass.
Yamon Figurs- With his woes in the return game, it's likely he won't make the team.
Justin Harper- Drafted in 2008, spent the season on the practice squad.
Ernie Wheelwright- Practice squad player who lacks NFL-type receiving skills.
Edward Williams- Great size at 6-4. Little speed. Spent last season on Titans practice squad.
Marcus Maxwell- Castoff from the Bengals practice squad.
Isaiah Williams- Undrated free agent from Maryland, likely is an extra body in camp.
Eron Riley- Could be a sleeper out of Duke. Went undrated. Great size, speed is a question.

PITTSBURGH STEELERS

Additions- Mike Wallace, Shaun McDonald, Brandon Williams
Subtractions- Nate Washington
WR drafted since 2004- (6) Fred Gibson, Willie Reid, Santonio Holmes, Dallas Baker, Limas Sweed, Mike Wallace

Santonio Holmes- At 25, he has become a bona fide number-one in the NFL.
Hines Ward- Has lost a step, but faces single coverage because of the other weapons on offense.
Shaun McDonald- Free agent addtiion has proven he is a very solid slot receiver.
Limas Sweed- Last year's second round pick has the tools to be a starter by year's end.
Dallas Baker- A black and gold version of Marcus Smith, but with better size.
Mike Wallace- Drated in this year's third round, he could fill the homerun void left by Nate Washington.
Martin Nance- Will likely spend the year on the practice squad.
Brandon Williams- Proved to be a capable return man in St. Louis, adds some depth to the corps.
Marvin Allen- A project from England will have a shot to make practice squad.

BlastFurnace
05-09-2009, 11:34 AM
Derick Mason plays like he is 25 against the Steelers. I can't wait until he retires.

Steely McSmash
05-09-2009, 11:59 AM
Marvin Allen- A project from England will have a shot to make practice squad.

I think this guy is history now that he doesn't get a free ride as the 9th euro practice guy.

Also missing

Goodman, Cedric
Foster, Jayson
Black, Steven
Grisham, Tyler

theplatypus
05-09-2009, 01:14 PM
I wonder how much affect the departure of Ryan will have on the Ravens defense.

Rek
05-09-2009, 01:50 PM
On NFL Network, both Jamie Dukes and Rod Woodson have the Ravens missing the playoffs, which is very interesting.

Galax Steeler
05-09-2009, 02:47 PM
On NFL Network, both Jamie Dukes and Rod Woodson have the Ravens missing the playoffs, which is very interesting.

That would not hurt my feelings any.

Stover4Prez
05-09-2009, 04:44 PM
I wonder how much affect the departure of Ryan will have on the Ravens defense.

I don't think it is going to be a big impact. Marvin Lewis was the defensive mastermind and everyone was worried when he went to Cincy. Rex stepped up and everything was fine. Now Rex is gone and a new defensive mastermind will appear (hopefully!). Plus Ray is still there he is the glue of the defense. He might not be as fast and strong as he once was, but his determination and motivation to keep the other guys around him together as a defense makes a huge difference. If we had lost Rex AND Ray, I would be worried. I think we'll be just fine.

Of course I would like a wide reciever, but that's a whole other issue....

paw-n-maul-u
05-09-2009, 04:52 PM
There really is a big difference. I see us handling baltimore this year in one of the games and a close one at their.

losing scott, lots in the secondary, an O-line that I'm barely more impressed with than our own, and adding Oher isn't going to make a difference this year. and as it obviously mentions, a hugeeeeee talent disparity at the WR position.

I really hope they don't get anquan boldin.

Sophomore slump for QB's ... ehh, i dunno, I just feel the ravens are going to be a 10-6 team at best, even with the schedule

devilsdancefloor
05-09-2009, 05:06 PM
I wonder how much affect the departure of Ryan will have on the Ravens defense.

i would say a lot. plus ryan tried everything he could to pull a wiz with his ex players. i see them falling apart a bit on defense old/ missing pieces now.

Psyychoward86
05-09-2009, 07:39 PM
Yup, i agree. Very few things could make me worry about the Raven's receiving corp, unless they make a move like getting Boldin.

steelreserve
05-09-2009, 09:50 PM
Mark my words ... within the first week or two, Flacco gets a separated shoulder or breaks his throwing hand on a guy's helmet, and it's straight to 5-11 for them.

steelwall
05-09-2009, 10:02 PM
I'm not that worried if they do indeed get Boldin.... Yes big upgrade for them. But we'll be getting to Flacco the same as we did last year, and Boldin will be faceing alot of double teams. Given the absence of another threat at WR.. I see business as usual. I honestly think they don't get Boldin though... but hey... who knows....

wootawnee
05-09-2009, 11:59 PM
I don't think it is going to be a big impact. Marvin Lewis was the defensive mastermind and everyone was worried when he went to Cincy. Rex stepped up and everything was fine. Now Rex is gone and a new defensive mastermind will appear (hopefully!). Plus Ray is still there he is the glue of the defense. He might not be as fast and strong as he once was, but his determination and motivation to keep the other guys around him together as a defense makes a huge difference. If we had lost Rex AND Ray, I would be worried. I think we'll be just fine.

Of course I would like a wide reciever, but that's a whole other issue....

You think a couple of years slows you down..........It makes you faster and smarter....

Ravnet
05-10-2009, 12:42 AM
Our wide receivers are our only real weakness; there isn't a single other position on the field where we're really lacking sans complementary WRs to Mason.

The Rex Ryan thing is a joke; did you ever see the Ravens completely blowing games under Marvin Lewis or Mike Nolan? Sure, Rex was able to continue the tradition during his tenure, but Baltimore consistently dropped games to Pittsburgh, among other teams, because Ryan wasn't able to adjust effectively. We basically allowed Roethlisberger to shred us apart, and that was a trend present in every single damn game.

Furthermore, we've had key coaches like Mike Nolan, Mike Singletary, Mike Smith, Marvin Lewis, and Jack Del Rio all depart, but we've basically put up identical stats every single year.

"losing scott, lots in the secondary, an O-line that I'm barely more impressed with than our own, and adding Oher isn't going to make a difference this year"

This guy should honestly just be embarrassed. I'm not going to go into a debate with someone who doesn't know anything about our reserves, but I can say with confidence that virtually every single Ravens fan trusts that one of our four super talented LB backups can take over Scott's position. I guarantee one of McClain/Barnes/Gooden/Kruger can take Scott's place within the next year or two.

Lots in the secondary? Firstly, nice grammar, and secondly,what is that even supposed to mean? Last year we played without Chris McAlister for the entire season, and then we CHOSE to release him this year because of age/injuries; no loss, obviously. Samari was a starter last year, but the signing of Foxworth has bumped him back to a nickel because we IMPROVED at that position. We also played without our starter Dawan Landry last year, and he'll be back.

By the way, even with the most depleted secondary in the NFL, the Ravens placed second in the statistical rankings. It's not even a debate as to whether we improved, if you watched the AFCCG last year, then you saw how we were playing a full unit of third stringers against the Steelers.

Comparing your offensive line to ours simply isn't plausible. Oher, Gaither, Grubbs, and Yanda are quite possibly the best young unit in the league, and the addition of an all-world center like Matt Birk is a downgrade from Brown in the long-term, but an upgrade for 2009.

Neither of our teams have gotten considerably better, but both squads have addressed the majority of their problems, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that either will fall off with a much easier schedule. No one is going to read this, but it must be said.

steelwall
05-10-2009, 12:52 AM
Neither of our teams have gotten considerably better, but both squads have addressed the majority of their problems, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that either will fall off with a much easier schedule. No one is going to read this, but it must be said.


By your own rational.... We should beat your team twice again this year, 3 times if you see us in the playoffs... :noidea: I can live with that. :thumbsup:

Ravnet
05-10-2009, 01:06 AM
By your own rational.... We should beat your team twice again this year, 3 times if you see us in the playoffs... :noidea: I can live with that. :thumbsup:

Yes, you should be able to as you're still the better team, but with a little bit of luck and a few breaks, we can get past Pittsburgh.

paw-n-maul-u
05-10-2009, 01:37 AM
Our wide receivers are our only real weakness; there isn't a single other position on the field where we're really lacking sans complementary WRs to Mason.

The Rex Ryan thing is a joke; did you ever see the Ravens completely blowing games under Marvin Lewis or Mike Nolan? Sure, Rex was able to continue the tradition during his tenure, but Baltimore consistently dropped games to Pittsburgh, among other teams, because Ryan wasn't able to adjust effectively. We basically allowed Roethlisberger to shred us apart, and that was a trend present in every single damn game.

Furthermore, we've had key coaches like Mike Nolan, Mike Singletary, Mike Smith, Marvin Lewis, and Jack Del Rio all depart, but we've basically put up identical stats every single year.

"losing scott, lots in the secondary, an O-line that I'm barely more impressed with than our own, and adding Oher isn't going to make a difference this year"

This guy should honestly just be embarrassed. I'm not going to go into a debate with someone who doesn't know anything about our reserves, but I can say with confidence that virtually every single Ravens fan trusts that one of our four super talented LB backups can take over Scott's position. I guarantee one of McClain/Barnes/Gooden/Kruger can take Scott's place within the next year or two.

Lots in the secondary? Firstly, nice grammar, and secondly,what is that even supposed to mean? Last year we played without Chris McAlister for the entire season, and then we CHOSE to release him this year because of age/injuries; no loss, obviously. Samari was a starter last year, but the signing of Foxworth has bumped him back to a nickel because we IMPROVED at that position. We also played without our starter Dawan Landry last year, and he'll be back.

By the way, even with the most depleted secondary in the NFL, the Ravens placed second in the statistical rankings. It's not even a debate as to whether we improved, if you watched the AFCCG last year, then you saw how we were playing a full unit of third stringers against the Steelers.

Comparing your offensive line to ours simply isn't plausible. Oher, Gaither, Grubbs, and Yanda are quite possibly the best young unit in the league, and the addition of an all-world center like Matt Birk is a downgrade from Brown in the long-term, but an upgrade for 2009.

Neither of our teams have gotten considerably better, but both squads have addressed the majority of their problems, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that either will fall off with a much easier schedule. No one is going to read this, but it must be said.

oh snap ... it's on like donkey kong.

I guess I exaggerated a little in my explication of why I thought the ravens were inferior to the Steelers. If I had known a troll was creeping like the rat(bird)s you are, then I would have sufficiently beefed up my argument for the humor of no one but my own.

ok, on with the show, I guess I'll address my absurd bart scott comment first. I'm sure you guys have a bunch of thooper thweet talented linebackerths ... Barnes, gooden, mcclain and kruger combined for .... HALF of the production of Lawrence Timmons, who actually IS a "super talented" linebacker

The steelers lose larry foote to the lions on a silly one year deal.

The jets sign scott to a mega million multi year contract.

Also, Gooden, who gets first crack at the job, is coming off a season ending injury, not that I need to tell you. Shouldn't you be more concerned with that certain all-pro LB that isn't even participating in your OTA's? :noidea:

Now onto your "improved" seconday? bahahahahaha. Ok, really tho.

Bravo Domonique Foxworth, you got signed to a contract far exceeding your performance and value. Explain to me how signing him is an "upgrade"? I'm not one to put too much into stats, but Rolle almost had more INT's in half of a season last year than Foxworth has had in his whole career. I mean, he was so good, that the falcons let him go. Quick name a falcons corner!!! And now on to dawan landry. Ohhhhhhh dawan landry, who hasn't picked off a ball since 2006 AND is coming off of a season ending injury ... find me a ravens fan that would rather have dawan landry back then keeping jim leonard.


Scott and Leonard were so bad, that Rex Ryan signed them this offseason, that old fool!!!!

Do YOU even know your own team? And don't even get me started on losing rex ryan, If there is any team in the league that would feel the pain of losing a great D-coordinator like Ryan, it is the steelers. Even with the way Tomlin has taken control of this team, I don't want to imagine the day that Dick Lebeau hangs up the headset.

Ok, hmmm, what else was there? Matt birk aka alan faneca aka pete kendall aka jeff saturday aka won't be any sort of upgrade, if not a downgrade. BUMP

I know there was something else I said that was reallllly dumb, some dumb comment I made. Oh well, it will come to me. Oh ya, how the ravens O-line was barely better than the steelers. Look up the facts big guy, the ravens gave up a handful or two less sacks than the steelers, hardly something to brag about. Actually I'm done with this.

QB-steelers
RB-push
O-line-ravens
TE-Steelers (unless you want to poke the lion and argue how great todd heap has been, haha, or better yet, how great LJ smith will be:toofunny:)
WR-steelers
D-line-I would say push, but I mean, nah, -steelers
LB's- with scott it's close, without him, its steelers easy
CB-steelers
Safety: ... if it was just troy and reed, it's a push, I could make an arguement for either. But getting landry back off season injury, losing your best depth with leonard, its steelers all the way.

I'm sorry boss hog, you embarass yourself, and don't even seem to know as much as you would like to sound you do. I stopped taking you seriously when you knocked on my grammar. in a steelers chat room, a ravens fan corrected me on my grammar. shucks. I hope you respond ratbird, I'm looking forward too it.

tony hipchest
05-10-2009, 01:51 AM
You think a couple of years slows you down.......You guys are morons....It makes you faster and smarter....Ray Lewis had his best season in the NFL last year....The new 30 is 40 and you all are like the media, pawns guys over the hill like Ray and Hines And Brett, saying they should hang em up.......Lets do some Oklahoma drills....We'll see who wants to hang em up.......You Panseys......We will break you in half.....You make me sick......You want to talk all tough cause your computer is dead, Come on ......We will take you on in some Oklahomas right now.....Then you will shut the up......Children, I am sorry for the language,but that is how it is in the trenches.....One day you might understand........Just ask Your beloved Jack......Happy Painting.........and God Bless........I love you.....

:huh: woah..... wow.... bob ross?

*exits strange moment* :cya:

steelwall
05-10-2009, 01:55 AM
I'm sure you guys have a bunch of thooper thweet talented linebackerths ...
.


:toofunny:

wootawnee
05-10-2009, 04:02 AM
Yeah......Bob Ruled......

wootawnee
05-10-2009, 04:08 AM
Read Books

paw-n-maul-u
05-10-2009, 04:12 AM
ok, from experience, I have never met a steelers fan that calls ray lewis "ray ray"

That is strictly ratbird jargon, I smell two trolls in one thread, one of which seems to have down syndrome, not that it should surprise anyone.

like stanley from the office said "there are two black men in this office and one have them has done time, have you lost your damn mind?" (I apologize if that was mildly racist, which I am not, just enjoy good humor)

wootawnee
05-10-2009, 05:03 AM
Work on the screens coach....

wootawnee
05-10-2009, 05:06 AM
Get your hands softer Ike......

Stover4Prez
05-10-2009, 10:49 AM
If I had known a troll was creeping like the rat(bird)s you are, then I would have sufficiently beefed up my argument for the humor of no one but my own.


I find it interesting that when an intelligent dissenting view from another fan is posted on this board, the "troll" label is thrown out almost immediately.

Anyway, your argument here is that the Ravens haven't improved over last year and the gap has gotten bigger between the Steelers and the Ravens. Once again, I have to go with the fact that if you think we haven't improved, that we are at least the team we were last year. I don't see much on the Steelers side that has made them that much better this year, so it appears that we have the same matchup this year.

Now, while you did come out on top, you can't say that the Steelers are that much better than the Ravens. You take out 1 play in the first 2 games, and we win the AFC North, not you. The championship game was a different story and we didn't have any gas left in the tank. Yes you are the champs. And yes you have a great team, but the gap between our two clubs is not that big. I'll take last years chances again no problem because both regular season games were decided on breaks, not pure dominance.

See ya in the fall.....

steelreserve
05-10-2009, 03:07 PM
Now, while you did come out on top, you can't say that the Steelers are that much better than the Ravens. You take out 1 play in the first 2 games, and we win the AFC North, not you. The championship game was a different story and we didn't have any gas left in the tank. Yes you are the champs. And yes you have a great team, but the gap between our two clubs is not that big. I'll take last years chances again no problem because both regular season games were decided on breaks, not pure dominance.

I get it, it was all because of luck, huh? So where were the Ravens when it was time to make the game-changing play? Oh, that's right -- they were right there on the field, not making the play.

Rarely is there one lucky break that's so devastating that you can't overcome it by playing well for the rest of the game. This was not the Tuck Rule. Winners make plays, not excuses.

Psyychoward86
05-10-2009, 03:38 PM
Wth is wootawnee talking about...

bigjamesharrison2
05-10-2009, 03:50 PM
Wth is wootawnee talking about...

I have no idea....:noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
05-10-2009, 04:20 PM
Wth is wootawnee talking about...
he didn't get his meds...don't worry , its taken care of....

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5678/straightjacket.jpg (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=straightjacket.jpg)

pancake
05-10-2009, 05:54 PM
I don't think the Ravens are any closer than they were last year, but I am not sure the Steelers have widen the gap. With that said, it's Steelers division to lose.

:tt:

Galax Steeler
05-11-2009, 04:46 AM
The ratbirds lost some key players so I could see where they might be a little softer then last year.

Preacher
05-11-2009, 05:29 AM
Um people...

Dissenting views do not equal trolls. They offered valid football opinions without flaming or even much baiting.... (shut up tony).

lilyoder6
05-11-2009, 08:40 AM
i don't know how the defense will be the same.. they did lose some key peices in the defense and til season starts.. u won't know how much they will be affected.. if at all

Steel Head
05-11-2009, 09:36 AM
Remember after Big Ben's record breaking rookie season, all the haters kept saying it was a fluke and you heard the words "Sophomore Slump" the whole offseason???

Well Big Ben went on to have an amazing year 2 and win the SB.

Joe Fluke-o is no Big Ben. He will hit the Sophomore Slump and the Ravens will suck

stlrtruck
05-11-2009, 10:33 AM
Joe Fluke-o is no Big Ben. He will hit the Sophomore Slump and the Ravens will suck

But they already suck :toofunny:

steelax04
05-12-2009, 11:01 AM
Um people...

Dissenting views do not equal trolls. They offered valid football opinions without flaming or even much baiting.... (shut up tony).

But Ravens fans are the masters of baiting, so it was implied. :jerkit:

CantStop85
05-12-2009, 01:02 PM
Now, while you did come out on top, you can't say that the Steelers are that much better than the Ravens. You take out 1 play in the first 2 games, and we win the AFC North, not you. The championship game was a different story and we didn't have any gas left in the tank. Yes you are the champs. And yes you have a great team, but the gap between our two clubs is not that big. I'll take last years chances again no problem because both regular season games were decided on breaks, not pure dominance.

Moot point...Bengals are going to sweep both the Ravens and the Steelers and take the division. :chuckle:

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 03:39 PM
The KEY difference here is that the Ravens have been swept a full 3 times in a season. This happened to the Browns, too, when they experienced the same thing. They have become the Steelers little bitches, whether they know it or not. Just like when the Steelers play the Browns, they'll feel that little tug at the back of their collective head, that little voice saying "We cannot beat these guys. We cannot beat these guys".

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 08:00 PM
The ratbirds lost some key players so I could see where they might be a little softer then last year.

Yup, and they still have the same terrible receiving corp, Pryce & Lewis are a year older & they lost their longtime douche-D-coordinator. I actually wouldn't be shocked if the Bengals finished in 2nd place.

Um people...

Dissenting views do not equal trolls. They offered valid football opinions without flaming or even much baiting.... (shut up tony).

Thank you for that.

steelwall
05-12-2009, 08:14 PM
But Ravens fans are masterbaiting, so it was implied. :jerkit:

Edit:

Fixed...

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 08:52 PM
Joe Fluke-o is no Big Ben. He will hit the Sophomore Slump

And there's that.


But they already suck :toofunny:

And that.