PDA

View Full Version : Is it really wise ?


billybob
05-11-2009, 01:12 PM
I know they're mixed feelings about our offensive line . I have defended them with all my might , and continue to do so .
My reasoning has been quite realistic , in that to keep interchanging personel , would not bring the coheisive qualities you want in such an integral part of your team .
I know that many , seem to lean toward replacing Stapleton with Urbik . I think that would only negate what strides they made last season , no matter how small they may have appeared to be, to some .
I realize that Stapleton is playing out of position , but i assure you , he will have the chance to hold onto his starting position . It will take a whole lot of quality learning , without the experience , for Urbik to wrench that spot from Stapleton . In no way am i saying that it is impossible , merely improbable . I have been wrong a lot , but not so much when it comes to the o-line , i feel very strongly about leaving the " Mach 5 " intact for one more season at the very least .
To change that line now would not be the wisest thing to do in my opinion . They have been referred to as the " weakest link " all too often . Would chucking in an inexperienced lineman in the NFL , really help toward defending our Superbowl title ?
Lets hear from the Nation .

tony hipchest
05-11-2009, 01:27 PM
i think urbick beats him out, and it ultimately makes hartwig a better player.

it will be like upgrading 2 positions. 3rd round linemen come in and start as rookies all the time in the nfl and he should be no different.

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-11-2009, 01:35 PM
Very wise in my opinion....as much as our tackles are demonized it was our interior line that gave up the most sacks.

LT: 14. Max Starks - 4 Sacks Allowed (11 Starts)
LG: 31. Chris Kemoeatu - 7.5 Sacks Allowed (16 Starts)
C: 32. Justin Hartwig - 6.5 Sacks Allowed (16 Starts)
RG: 26. Darnell Stapleton - 5 Sacks Allowed (12 Starts)
RT: 17. Willie Colon - 5.75 Sacks Allowed (16 Starts)

Out of those three in the middle...Hartwig has the less chance of losing his job. With one year left on his contract they will let him play out while either providing some reps for his future replacement or looking for the next Steeler center.

The two guards gave up 12.5 sacks between them, but it was obvious that Stapleton is the most ill-fitted to be a starter for our scheme. He only started 12 games, and once teams figured out that he didnt have the anchor or strength to stop bull-rushers he was exploited (see Superbowl).

If Hartwig isnt helping Stapleton with bigger D-linemen, he could better cover his own area or assist Kemo.

Even with Kemo having more sacks alllowed, his ceiling is much higher than Stapletons. Keep in mind, Stapleton was the backup Guard who couldnt beat out Simmons or Kemo at the beginning of the season, and only got the starting gig with the Simmons injury

Steelman16
05-11-2009, 01:48 PM
I agree with Tony. A stronger right guard would help Hartiwg.

Let's face it, Stapleton was a liability. Colon couldn't help him, since he had enough trouble on his own, so it came down to Hartwig having to compensate for Stapleton's lacks and the result of that was Hartwig giving up some plays and sacks. I love Stapleton, but he's not starter-materiel IMO. Urbik brings a bigger and stronger frame to the table, he has the ability to maul, and he has a good head on his shoulders.

So in my opinion it's wise. I think at this point Kemo is the bigger issue on the line. He needs to up his game to the next notch.

billybob
05-11-2009, 01:49 PM
i think urbick beats him out, and it ultimately makes hartwig a better player.

it will be like upgrading 2 positions. 3rd round linemen come in and start as rookies all the time in the nfl and he should be no different.

You have an opinion , that somehow i respect . I don't know why :rofl: . One thing i look at is how over the entire successes of our past teams , we have had some pretty stable lines , with as few as possible changes . That includes both sides of the ball . Would it hurt Urbik to watch for a year ?

The Duke
05-11-2009, 01:54 PM
Yes, it will be wise. But it won't happen immediately, and it will take some time to find cohesion with urbik

So in my opinion it's wise. I think at this point Kemo is the bigger issue on the line. He needs to up his game to the next notch.

If kemo and starks played up to their potential this line would be awesome

I'm rooting for no injuries so the line can continue improving :hope:

tony hipchest
05-11-2009, 01:55 PM
You have an opinion , that somehow i respect . I don't know why :rofl: . One thing i look at is how over the entire successes of our past teams , we have had some pretty stable lines , with as few as possible changes . That includes both sides of the ball . Would it hurt Urbik to watch for a year ?well, alot regarded him as the 2nd best guard in this years class. i dont think he was a 3rd round pick because he had 3rd round talent and potential, just that there isnt much of a premium for guards to be drafted in the 1st round.

if he is the 2nd best guard, he needs to be on the field asap. if he frees up hartwig to help kemo some, and is able to hold his side with colon, we may see a slight upgrad at 4 positions.

even if slight upgrade means giving up a half a sack less per game, that is huge.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:02 PM
. Would it hurt Urbik to watch for a year ?

Why does he need to watch for a year?? He was a 4-year starter at a team that is known for producing 13 NFL O linemen in the past 15 years. Urbik has probably played more O line in the past 4 years than Darnell Stapleton and produced more consistent play.


Over the past 15 years, 13 Wisconsin Badgers offensive linemen have been selected in the NFL draft.....come draft day, NFL teams have viewed Badgers linemen as a wise investment.

Kraig Urbik will be a nice addition to any NFL team. Urbik is the type of hard working, blue collar lineman that makes NFL running games look good. He is a relentless run blocker who plays with a real mean streak.

Urbik should be a very productive NFL player. He is very strong and has the ability to reach linebackers at the second level. He’ll need to work on keeping his technique solid during the game. He will probably slip a little during the draft as guards get devalued but will make a team very happy they drafted him.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/3/29/805304/g-kraig-urbik-wisconsin

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:06 PM
Yes, it will be wise. But it won't happen immediately, and it will take some time to find cohesion with urbik


If kemo and starks played up to their potential this line would be awesome

I'm rooting for no injuries so the line can continue improving :hope:

I saw Warren Sapp talk about young guys "finding their right speed". I think this is the problem with Kemo at times. He plays with too much intensity and then burns himself out.

When a 340 lb O lineman is tired he probably could get flat footed and look slow or lazy. The guy sometimes looks like a monster and the next a lazy slob.

billybob
05-11-2009, 02:06 PM
well, alot regarded him as the 2nd best guard in this years class. i dont think he was a 3rd round pick because he had 3rd round talent and potential, just that there isnt much of a premium for guards to be drafted in the 1st round.

if he is the 2nd best guard, he needs to be on the field asap. if he frees up hartwig to help kemo some, and is able to hold his side with colon, we may see a slight upgrad at 4 positions.

even if slight upgrade means giving up a half a sack less per game, that is huge.

I have no doubt in my mind that he could bring (Urbik), a strong influence to our line . I question whether to disrupt the continuity of that line , and throw him right in the fire so abruptly .

steelreserve
05-11-2009, 02:09 PM
Of course it's wise to bring in new guys. Most offensive lines have to replace one of their starters every season anyway just because of normal player turnover. If we can get a better guy in there, we should do it.

Having said that, it would be great to avoid a repeat of what we did last year. We ended up with four new starters and one second-year starter, and basically three guys playing out of position (if you count Starks despite the fact that he ended up sucking less at his new position). In fact, it was complete chaos and the more I think about it, the more I'm amazed those guys managed to block anybody at all.

Whether we do or don't replace anyone, I doubt the line will do quite as badly as that because there's no way we'll be in the same situation. At most we'll have one new guy. But we can help their odds by making sure we use the best of the guys we've got, and also using a more effective running back should work wonders. We'll see.

Steel Head
05-11-2009, 02:10 PM
We should start Shipley so he doesn't feel left out:

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu6/keevin33/normal_626201325.jpg

Steelman16
05-11-2009, 02:11 PM
Well, in the same sense...what continuity? We had one of the worst O-lines in the league. People tout the horrible Rams' line, but the fact is we allowed more sacks than they did. If we had Marc Bulger at QB instead of Big Ben, we'd have a losing record, and no Super Bowl.

The sheer fact that we actually won the Super Bowl has masked some of the issues IMO.

"Throwing him into the fire" might work for a quarterback to "learn for a year", but if you have a better lineman in the wings, and you allowed 47 sacks last year, and your rushing attack was less than par, how could you not start him?


EDIT: Hilarious comic, Steel Head! :toofunny:

tony hipchest
05-11-2009, 02:11 PM
:rofl: @ the t-rex

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:13 PM
I have no doubt in my mind that he could bring (Urbik), a strong influence to our line . I question whether to disrupt the continuity of that line , and throw him right in the fire so abruptly .

What do you think is better??? Maintaining the continuity of an underperforming group, or bringing in new talent in order to hopefully improve a situation??

IF continuity is so important, then why ever hold Presidential elections???? Just perpetually give the same government "time to gel together".

Steelman16
05-11-2009, 02:14 PM
IF continuity is so important, then why ever hold Presidential elections???? Just perpetually give the same government "time to gel together".

Tony, don't even think about it, cuz I know you are. :laughing:


:wink02::flap:

billybob
05-11-2009, 02:15 PM
:rofl: @ the t-rex

You laugh Tony , he will fit in somewhere !

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:16 PM
:sofunny: That T-rex probably started the need for HO's. The evolution of supply and demand.

tony hipchest
05-11-2009, 02:21 PM
Tony, don't even think about it, cuz I know you are. :laughing:


:wink02::flap:nope. not in the nfl section.

plus im still thinking about and laughing at the poor dinosaur who cant jack off. :chuckle:

billybob
05-11-2009, 02:22 PM
I think the Steelers excell in drafting coachable players . Once the coaches get their chance with these guys , you never know what can happen .

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:25 PM
im still thinking about and laughing at the poor dinosaur who cant jack off. :chuckle:

Yeah, but he can probably go down to the lake and get a blow hole job from a Brachiosaurus. :noidea:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:29 PM
I think the Steelers excell in drafting coachable players . Once the coaches get their chance with these guys , you never know what can happen .

Yeah, I just think that Urbik will come in and use his 4 year starter experience at Wisconsin, plus his superior size, strength and aggressiveness to beat out Stapleton at RG.

Best case scenario is that we improve our RG position and have an experienced backup in Stapleton. Worst case is we have an experienced, weaker guy at RG that is being pushed by a talented rookie trying to take his job.

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-11-2009, 02:30 PM
They say my arms are too short , but i rarely get called for holding . Don't give up the Ship .......

Does that make our new Center a....."Ship-rex"?
:noidea:

billybob
05-11-2009, 02:38 PM
Does that make our new Center a....."Ship-rex"?
:noidea:

You're too much ! ! Oh , and i did find your tooth . If you can describe it i will let you claim it . :rofl: :rofl: No , it isn't gold either .

billybob
05-11-2009, 02:42 PM
Yeah, I just think that Urbik will come in and use his 4 year starter experience at Wisconsin, plus his superior size, strength and aggressiveness to beat out Stapleton at RG.

Best case scenario is that we improve our RG position and have an experienced backup in Stapleton. Worst case is we have an experienced, weaker guy at RG that is being pushed by a talented rookie trying to take his job.

That is actually more how i see it playing out . I find it hard to believe that you sign all these guys , and then unseat them with even more unproven players . That does not seem to fit Tomlins bill .

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:51 PM
That is actually more how i see it playing out . I find it hard to believe that you sign all these guys , and then unseat them with even more unproven players . That does not seem to fit Tomlins bill .

Stapleton is still an undrafted free agent that is on his 1st contract. He never started a game until Simmons went down with an injury against Baltimore. Urbik on the other hand is a highly touted OG with a fantastic resume at Wisconsin the past 4 years.

I dont think the "unseating" of Stapleton is unreasonable. I dont think that sitting the better player, just because he has 12 fewer NFL starts than the incumbent........."seems to fit Tomlins bill".

BB, I may be totally off here, but I think Urbik will start at RG on opening day.

bigjamesharrison2
05-11-2009, 02:54 PM
Coach Tomlin...Thats what it allcomes down to, whether or not he thinks these rookies are ready to play as productive members of our team. I trust him to be able to make that decision.

billybob
05-11-2009, 03:00 PM
What do you think is better??? Maintaining the continuity of an underperforming group, or bringing in new talent in order to hopefully improve a situation??

IF continuity is so important, then why ever hold Presidential elections???? Just perpetually give the same government "time to gel together".

Did you not take civics in school ? That is a law in politics dude . Not football . I hope football never comes to that point . Tomlin is the president of this team . Of course he still has to go through the congress though .

bigjamesharrison2
05-11-2009, 03:08 PM
So who is the congress?

Steel Head
05-11-2009, 03:12 PM
BB, I may be totally off here, but I think Urbik will start at RG on opening day.

I think so too

but none of us have even seen him play at the pro level, so it's a wait and see

dont count out Essex either, he looked good last preseason

billybob
05-11-2009, 03:25 PM
Tomlin has his own take on this team . I have no doubt he had a hand in the selection of Urbik . I am sure if he distinquishes himself in camp , he will certainly have the chance to make an impact directly .
I am not promoting anyone , i can't anyway , but if Tomlin sees fit to make our team better , and Urbik can do that , i think Tomlin will do just that .
The " Mach 5 " has the job to lose . If you have a new " spark plug " to replace a bad one , so be it . It is harder than you think to do that .
My goal was to air out some of the pros and cons , of taking on that approach .
There was a lot of interesting input , and that was why i wanted to run this thread .
I still have to think in my heart of hearts , that we should not expect to see a member of last years o-line being filled in by a rookie this coming season .

billybob
05-11-2009, 03:28 PM
So who is the congress?

The front office .

Preacher
05-11-2009, 03:35 PM
I dont think the "unseating" of Stapleton is unreasonable. I dont think that sitting the better player, just because he has 12 fewer NFL starts than the incumbent........."seems to fit Tomlins bill".

BB, I may be totally off here, but I think Urbik will start at RG on opening day.

We're going to have to stop agreeing on the offensive line here... :chuckle:

What gets me, is that Stapleton ended up being an upgrade over Simmons. Sure he didn't beat Simmons out in the beginning. However, the play of the line changed for the better when Simmons left.

However, I think Urbik beats out Stapleton. I want it to happen EARLY in camp. Then we get that all-talked about consistency started right at the beginning of the year.

billybob
05-11-2009, 03:54 PM
We're going to have to stop agreeing on the offensive line here... :chuckle:

What gets me, is that Stapleton ended up being an upgrade over Simmons. Sure he didn't beat Simmons out in the beginning. However, the play of the line changed for the better when Simmons left.

However, I think Urbik beats out Stapleton. I want it to happen EARLY in camp. Then we get that all-talked about consistency started right at the beginning of the year.

I actually do have some common ground with " Preacher " . We are both human . All jokes asside , i think if you want to transplant a starter , you want to do it as soon as you can in training camp . Is that enough time for Urbik to make his move ? In my opinion , if he does not make his move in camp , you can not comprimise , or underestimate the time players spend , or have spent working along side eachother in the NFL . Chemistry is important .

billybob
05-11-2009, 04:17 PM
If the entire o-line remains intact , and helps bring home # 7 , i will push for the " Mach 5 " name to officially stick . Any objections ? If not , i will forever hold my peace .
The " Mach 5 " , a "legend in the making " !

wootawnee
05-11-2009, 04:34 PM
Kemo needs pushed by a dude like Russ Grimm.....But that's not happening in the Burgh.......Russ made them dudes hustle more......He just had that fire about him....The short yard running game went in the crapper when Russ and Faneca split......They were the best in the league.........The Best period......That is the picture.......It is a tough pill to swallow.........

billybob
05-11-2009, 05:18 PM
Kemo needs pushed by a dude like Russ Grimm.....But that's not happening in the Burgh.......Russ made them dudes hustle more......He just had that fire about him....The short yard running game went in the crapper when Russ and Faneca split......They were the best in the league.........The Best period......That is the picture.......It is a tough pill to swallow.........

So you are saying we need to ship kemo off to Arizona ? Our running attack faltered last season because of many factors . The would - be coach whiz , lost to the now coach , Tomlinator , but we need to ship Kemo out -a -here . They are going about Steeler football as usual . Thought this was an o-line thread , not a coach one .
Personel is the key . If these guys make it through training camp still intact , some minds will begin to change . I am so optimistic about our o-line , i have been called wreckless .
However , they did take it to the bank , and will be recieving their rings soon enough . They did not do it alone , but they did play their part , love em , or hate em . Improve , yes , but if it ain't broke , don't try to fix it . You may be sorry in the long run .

Preacher
05-11-2009, 05:47 PM
Kemo needs pushed by a dude like Russ Grimm.....But that's not happening in the Burgh.......Russ made them dudes hustle more......He just had that fire about him....The short yard running game went in the crapper when Russ and Faneca split......They were the best in the league.........The Best period......That is the picture.......It is a tough pill to swallow.........

Wow. Talk about needing a reality check.

Russ Grimm came to the Steelers in September of 2000, which means. Being nice and including that year, Russ Grimm was with the team for 6 years.

Now, in those six years, we went from an absolute dominant front line to what? In 2003 our line was horrid. in 2006 our line was COMPLETELY horrid. So he took a line that was 100 % effective from the previous line coach, and in the next six years, proceeded to downgrade by 33%. That is, 1 out of ever 3 seasons would be bad. He left us with a line that was aging without many backups that could really fill the spot. Our backup center under Grimm was cut FOR MAHAN. What does THAT tell you? He then went to the Cardinals AND WAS CUT AGAIN.

He built a one-dimensional offensive line that knew how to block for the run. During that SAME TIME, we put in two biggest pass intensive QB's since Bradshaw. Anyone see the disconnect here?

Sorry, Grimm does NOT get an atta-boy in my book. He was the beginning of the demise that we are now sifting through in Pittsburgh for the front line.

Funny thing, everyone wants to blame Z. However, he can only work with what he has been given, and he has been given a run blocking, aging, no backup O line and then told to defend against he pass, AND DO IT NOW.

I don't know if Z is the guy to do it. But he has inherited much of the problem. That O line would STILL be having problems if Grimm was here, maybe more.

billybob
05-11-2009, 06:30 PM
I think we have some interesting " future " prospects for our line . I still am not convinced we change them out at this point . Camp has not been closed yet , so i will remain optimistic . ( hell it ain't even started yet ) .
We have a lot of competition due to arrive in camp this summer . Our Young offensive line seems to draw more attention , than the elder line , although they have both had their critics .
We have not shown a true neglect of our needs , in my opinion . Steelers have maintained a level of excellence , that is currently unmatched in the Pro football world . One step at a time , while still remaining competitive , is something to be proud of .
Teams have looked at our history , and they try to duplicate what we have done . Some are getting close to catching up , but we still manage to stay at least a step ahead , and still make out .
We shored up our main weakness last season , and it showed big time ." Special Teams ".
Our next weakness seems to be our running game . Not the o-line par-say .
The Steelers can no doubt come back again this season , and be right back in the mix .
I agree with offensive line upgrades , but not just for the sake of change . In my eyes , you could be doing your whole team an injustice , if you take that approach .

steelreserve
05-11-2009, 06:33 PM
I've got a great idea, why don't we just go to Japan and get the five best sumo wrestlers. They'd probably be awesome at blocking. Or maybe they'd get called for holding all the time. But who knows, maybe if we were the Lions and had nothing to lose we'd try it. How many defenders are going to take on a guy who's 6-8 and an athletic 500 pounds?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akebono_Tar%C5%8D

Psyychoward86
05-11-2009, 07:00 PM
I like Urbik better on this one, just because he's bigger and stronger, but still a technician. Stapleton plays with heart, but i dont know if he can hang in there. After all, he's also playing out of position.

billybob
05-11-2009, 07:09 PM
I've got a great idea, why don't we just go to Japan and get the five best sumo wrestlers. They'd probably be awesome at blocking. Or maybe they'd get called for holding all the time. But who knows, maybe if we were the Lions and had nothing to lose we'd try it. How many defenders are going to take on a guy who's 6-8 and an athletic 500 pounds?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akebono_Tar%C5%8D

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That sounds realistic .

Preacher
05-11-2009, 07:12 PM
I've got a great idea, why don't we just go to Japan and get the five best sumo wrestlers. They'd probably be awesome at blocking. Or maybe they'd get called for holding all the time. But who knows, maybe if we were the Lions and had nothing to lose we'd try it. How many defenders are going to take on a guy who's 6-8 and an athletic 500 pounds?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akebono_Tar%C5%8D


Could you imagine them exploding off the line? WOW.

Not sure about pass game or normal run game, but I'd bet our short yardage game would be the best in the NFL!!!

billybob
05-11-2009, 08:20 PM
Could you imagine them exploding off the line? WOW.

Not sure about pass game or normal run game, but I'd bet our short yardage game would be the best in the NFL!!!

You would not even need a passing game with a line like that . That would be like praying to God for a running back that was guarenteed to make 3 yards per carry . You could run the ball every play . Have a first down on every fourth . Then you find out the other team prayed for a linebacker that was guarenteed to force a yard lost on every play . :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Thats too much .... i'm sorry .

billybob
05-11-2009, 09:33 PM
I'm sorry fellas , i lost it with the sumo remark . It has been a fun off-season though in general . Urbik will most definately get his shot at starting , and i believe that . I think Ship will have his shot too .
Just don't expect the " Mach 5 " to be dismantled that easily is all i am trying to get people ready to accept .
They carried the weight last season , and they did not come out on the short end of the stick . They had a gruesome schedule , and remained a viable line . I just think to break them up now , after all they were through , it's gonna take , well ........... a lot to make that occur .
They will be traveling into training camp at the top of the heap , king of the mountain ,but you don't have to be a wizzard to predict the outcome. The new guys will come in , like they always do , and try to show they belong in the starting line-up .
The coaches will look at them , and maybe try them in different positions ,and make their evaluations based on their performance .
Some will be asked to stay , and some will be cut loose . Some will be placed on injured reserve , and some will make it to the practice squad . After the season the " Mach 5 " has been through , this camp should not be considered a cake walk for them . I start with my predictions early , but the only thing wrong is i stay late too !
I mean late in the season .
I can actually picture the " Mach 5 " intact for the start of the season against the Titans . I relish that thought too ! ! ! ! ! ! !
The " MACH 5 " will survive ! ! ! ! !

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 10:23 PM
We're going to have to stop agreeing on the offensive line here... :chuckle:

What gets me, is that Stapleton ended up being an upgrade over Simmons. Sure he didn't beat Simmons out in the beginning. However, the play of the line changed for the better when Simmons left.

However, I think Urbik beats out Stapleton. I want it to happen EARLY in camp. Then we get that all-talked about consistency started right at the beginning of the year.

Well Padre, at least we still disagree that Stapleton was an upgrade over Simmons. :wink: The pass blocking might have got better, but Stapleton couldnt be counted on to get any push in the running game, where Simmons could. After watching Stapleton play weeks 5-8 last season, I knew he wasnt strong enough of a run blocker.

At least we both can agree that Urbik should be an upgrade over Stapleton and want to see it happen sooner than later.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 10:27 PM
Stapleton plays with heart, but i dont know if he can hang in there. After all, he's also playing out of position.

And the unfortunate thing is that if Stapleton cant handle 300lb DT's at guard. He isnt gonna be able to handle 330lb NT's if he plays center for us. He should make the roster as a backup this season, but dont think he is gonna stick around if Urbik, Shipley, Legursky, Hartwig can all play center.

billybob
05-11-2009, 10:31 PM
Well Padre, at least we still disagree that Stapleton was an upgrade over Simmons. :wink: The pass blocking might have got better, but Stapleton couldnt be counted on to get any push in the running game, where Simmons could. After watching Stapleton play weeks 5-8 last season, I knew he wasnt strong enough of a run blocker.

At least we both can agree that Urbik should be an upgrade over Stapleton and want to see it happen sooner than later.

you guys have high hopes for this kid . he has a lot of work to do to break into this line-up . Hope ya know that .

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 10:47 PM
you guys have high hopes for this kid . he has a lot of work to do to break into this line-up . Hope ya know that .

Billybob, all he has to do is beat out Stapleton......Hope ya know that. :wink:

Billybob, its not hope based on nothing. I watched around 4 Wisconsin games and also watched Urbik in the week of Senior Bowl in Mobile Ala. where I recorded and broke down his game.

Urbik has shown that he is just what the Steelers like in a guard. A big, nasty mauler. Here is what I posted back in January about him.

Levitre looks light and soft to me. Urbik a brawler, but not overly agile, Canfield plays high, but I think Mack, Canfield, Urbik, Wood, Caldwell are the better interior linemen in Mobile

Here is what a scout wrote: In the 1v1 battles going on at the North end zone, Ziggy Hood continued to dominate, but not if Kraig Urbik had anything to say about it. Urbik handled Hood's spin well and stood him up and displayed a nasty demeanor

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=31925&page=2

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 10:51 PM
Here is some video of #63 in case you were not able to watch any Wisconsin games this year.

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4853094/12936297

You guys are gonna love Urbik and Keenan Lewis. :excited:

Steely McSmash
05-11-2009, 11:14 PM
Wow. Talk about needing a reality check.

Russ Grimm came to the Steelers in September of 2000, which means. Being nice and including that year, Russ Grimm was with the team for 6 years.

Now, in those six years, we went from an absolute dominant front line to what? In 2003 our line was horrid. in 2006 our line was COMPLETELY horrid. So he took a line that was 100 % effective from the previous line coach, and in the next six years, proceeded to downgrade by 33%. That is, 1 out of ever 3 seasons would be bad. He left us with a line that was aging without many backups that could really fill the spot. Our backup center under Grimm was cut FOR MAHAN. What does THAT tell you? He then went to the Cardinals AND WAS CUT AGAIN.

He built a one-dimensional offensive line that knew how to block for the run. During that SAME TIME, we put in two biggest pass intensive QB's since Bradshaw. Anyone see the disconnect here?

Sorry, Grimm does NOT get an atta-boy in my book. He was the beginning of the demise that we are now sifting through in Pittsburgh for the front line.

Funny thing, everyone wants to blame Z. However, he can only work with what he has been given, and he has been given a run blocking, aging, no backup O line and then told to defend against he pass, AND DO IT NOW.

I don't know if Z is the guy to do it. But he has inherited much of the problem. That O line would STILL be having problems if Grimm was here, maybe more.

:iagree: Grimm was very Cowher-esque emotional type leader who got some seriously inconsistent performances out of his guys IMO.

billybob
05-11-2009, 11:29 PM
I have ya El , but for him to come into our program and " all he has to do , is unseat Stapleton " is shooting a little high in my beliefs . Never said i did not like him , only said he has a lot of work to do . People aim high sometimes , thats why they end up missing . I respect your football knowledge , but the process may need some evaluation . This kid would be well served with some time to adjust . I think that is just what he is going to get , barring any injuries . If i am wrong , it will still be a good thing for our team , right ? We have no need for a guy to step right in and play from jump street . That is what has me so astonished . You have five guys coming into this camp with jobs to preserve. Jobs they thought they secured last season . Do you think for one minute they want to keep their jobs ? You are damn right they do . They have the flavor in their mouths now , and if you think they will go down without a fight , you may want to reconsider your argument . They are not even that much older than the ones that want to take their jobs from them . I don't know about you brother , but i would be fightin for my job . I expect no less from each and everyone of , that's right , " MACH 5 "

devilsdancefloor
05-11-2009, 11:42 PM
to be honest urbik starts and RG and i think there wil lbe one hell of a battle for RT. I agree they have to gel and they got better as the year went on but with a road grader like urbik in the line up makes everyone better. I also think ship make the team he might not have "long arms" BUT he has heart and determination!

tony hipchest
05-11-2009, 11:45 PM
:iagree: Grimm was very Cowher-esque emotional type leader who got some seriously inconsistent performances out of his guys IMO.
:yep: fwiw grimm and the cardinals had one of the suckiest, sorriest running games in the league last year. if it werent for areana ball k. warner, and ultimate all-pro l. fitzgerald, they probably woulda had a pretty average passing game too.

faneca and jerome made grimm, not vice versa.

billybob
05-11-2009, 11:54 PM
:yep: fwiw grimm and the cardinals had one of the suckiest, sorriest running games in the league last year. if it werent for areana ball k. warner, and ultimate all-pro l. fitzgerald, they probably woulda had a pretty average passing game too.

faneca and jerome made grimm, not vice versa.

True that !:tt03:

MasterOfPuppets
05-11-2009, 11:56 PM
Wow. Talk about needing a reality check.

Russ Grimm came to the Steelers in September of 2000, which means. Being nice and including that year, Russ Grimm was with the team for 6 years.

Now, in those six years, we went from an absolute dominant front line to what? In 2003 our line was horrid. in 2006 our line was COMPLETELY horrid. So he took a line that was 100 % effective from the previous line coach, and in the next six years, proceeded to downgrade by 33%. That is, 1 out of ever 3 seasons would be bad. He left us with a line that was aging without many backups that could really fill the spot. Our backup center under Grimm was cut FOR MAHAN. What does THAT tell you? He then went to the Cardinals AND WAS CUT AGAIN.

He built a one-dimensional offensive line that knew how to block for the run. During that SAME TIME, we put in two biggest pass intensive QB's since Bradshaw. Anyone see the disconnect here?

Sorry, Grimm does NOT get an atta-boy in my book. He was the beginning of the demise that we are now sifting through in Pittsburgh for the front line.

Funny thing, everyone wants to blame Z. However, he can only work with what he has been given, and he has been given a run blocking, aging, no backup O line and then told to defend against he pass, AND DO IT NOW.

I don't know if Z is the guy to do it. But he has inherited much of the problem. That O line would STILL be having problems if Grimm was here, maybe more.hmmmm....2000.....:scratchchin: ....wasn't that the year the steelers finally decided that Olinemen weren't worth picking in the first few rounds? i believe someone else was hired around that same time...:scratchchin:

billybob
05-12-2009, 12:00 AM
hmmmm....2000.....:scratchchin: ....wasn't that the year the steelers finally decided that Olinemen weren't worth picking in the first few rounds? i believe someone else was hired around that same time...:scratchchin:

Max ?

billybob
05-12-2009, 12:13 AM
Billybob, all he has to do is beat out Stapleton......Hope ya know that. :wink:

Billybob, its not hope based on nothing. I watched around 4 Wisconsin games and also watched Urbik in the week of Senior Bowl in Mobile Ala. where I recorded and broke down his game.

Urbik has shown that he is just what the Steelers like in a guard. A big, nasty mauler. Here is what I posted back in January about him.

Levitre looks light and soft to me. Urbik a brawler, but not overly agile, Canfield plays high, but I think Mack, Canfield, Urbik, Wood, Caldwell are the better interior linemen in Mobile

Here is what a scout wrote: In the 1v1 battles going on at the North end zone, Ziggy Hood continued to dominate, but not if Kraig Urbik had anything to say about it. Urbik handled Hood's spin well and stood him up and displayed a nasty demeanor

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=31925&page=2

You ever watch him play against the Ravens , or the Eagles ? How about the Browns ? Titans ? San Diego ? He needs to adjust dude , mark my words .

Steelman16
05-12-2009, 12:57 AM
You ever watch him play against the Ravens , or the Eagles ? How about the Browns ? Titans ? San Diego ? He needs to adjust dude , mark my words .

How ya gonna watch him against those teams if he ain't playing? :noidea:

billybob
05-12-2009, 01:19 AM
How ya gonna watch him against those teams if he ain't playing? :noidea:

How can you say he is a powerhouse in the NFL ? You're gettin it now . Some think he can come struttin right into the house and start playin like he did in college , and knock out the starter , and take his job . You got it now . He ain't playin , and he won't play this season , barring any injury , or maybe he is that good .
He never faced the Ravens , Browns ,or even Bengals . He never even faced our own defense in practice with pads on . What is your point ?

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-12-2009, 05:31 AM
you guys have high hopes for this kid . he has a lot of work to do to break into this line-up . Hope ya know that .

Gotta be honest...I hope he has what it takes to move to RT this year and move Colon to RG.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 07:08 AM
to be honest urbik starts and RG and i think there wil lbe one hell of a battle for RT.

what's this battle at RT you are speaking of?

Colon is Tomlin's chosen one

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 07:10 AM
Gotta be honest...I hope he has what it takes to move to RT this year and move Colon to RG.

who is moving to RT? Urbik?

Urbik move to RT and Colon to RG? huh? That's highly unlikely to happen this year

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-12-2009, 08:01 AM
who is moving to RT? Urbik?

Urbik move to RT and Colon to RG? huh? That's highly unlikely to happen this year

I agree with you....I dont think it WILL happen...but I would love to see Urbik display the skills so that we can move Colon to RG.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 09:55 AM
You ever watch him play against the Ravens , or the Eagles ? How about the Browns ? Titans ? San Diego ? He needs to adjust dude , mark my words .

No, I watched Darnell Stapleton get stuffed in the hole by Teddy Bruschi the entire Patriots game.
I watched Stapleton get stuffed by Bryan Robinson and Darnell Dockett in the SB.
I watched Stapleton unable to handle the Colts Kenyutta Dawson (255lbs) last year.

On the flip side, I watched Urbik handle guys like Will Johnson of Michigan and Nader Abdallah of Ohio St in games, and Ziggy Hood, Ron Brace, Tim Jamison, Alex Maggee in the Senior Bowl week.

I will mark your words and we will see in training camp.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 09:56 AM
I agree with you....I dont think it WILL happen...but I would love to see Urbik display the skills so that we can move Colon to RG.

LLT, your best bet is to hope that Tony Hills can play RT, but I dont think its gonna happen this season.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 10:01 AM
LLT, your best bet is to hope that Tony Hills can play RT, but I dont think its gonna happen this season.

or maybe Essex

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 10:06 AM
or maybe Essex

True, but I think they belive Essex is a better pass protector than run blocker. That is why he got in vs Jacksonville when Smith went down at LT. RT is normally your strong side run blocker and Colon is better than Essex there.

I honestly hoped that Tony Hills was ready to play RT this year and Colon could move to RG, but I agree that Colon is pretty firmly the starter at RT.

steelreserve
05-12-2009, 10:25 AM
True, but I think they belive Essex is a better pass protector than run blocker. That is why he got in vs Jacksonville when Smith went down at LT. RT is normally your strong side run blocker and Colon is better than Essex there.

I honestly hoped that Tony Hills was ready to play RT this year and Colon could move to RG, but I agree that Colon is pretty firmly the starter at RT.

True, but isn't better pass protection what we need at RT? Our running game sucked on the right side anyway last year, and I don't know if that's going to improve this year with our current options. Our pass protection sucked on that side too because Colon got the most penalties in the league by awkwardly playing out of position. So if you ask me, if Essex would improve one of those two areas, that's better than nothing.

Who knows if he actually would be any better than Colon at that, though. I tend to think his better shot would be at guard. Although there's probably a reason Stapleton got the nod over him last year.

billybob
05-12-2009, 10:53 AM
[

I will mark your words and we will see in training camp.[/QUOTE]

ok , the bet is on Jackson .:rofl: 5 bucks good ?

Hammer67
05-12-2009, 11:57 AM
What do you think is better??? Maintaining the continuity of an underperforming group, or bringing in new talent in order to hopefully improve a situation??

IF continuity is so important, then why ever hold Presidential elections???? Just perpetually give the same government "time to gel together".


Absolutely...besides continuity is not the major factor in the success of the line...it's the talent of the people blocking, first and foremost. After talent and technique, then continuity can play a role, but they can develop that during the preseason.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 12:03 PM
True, but isn't better pass protection what we need at RT? Our running game sucked on the right side anyway last year, and I don't know if that's going to improve this year with our current options. Our pass protection sucked on that side too because Colon got the most penalties in the league by awkwardly playing out of position. So if you ask me, if Essex would improve one of those two areas, that's better than nothing.

Who knows if he actually would be any better than Colon at that, though. I tend to think his better shot would be at guard. Although there's probably a reason Stapleton got the nod over him last year.

Colon had something like 6 sacks allowed and 8 penalties on him the entire season. The Steelers are not going to put an inferior run blocker in Essex there to reduce 15 negative plays a season to maybe 10. IMO Essex is a valuable backup, but just that........a backup. I still cringe that we didnt draft Chris Canty or Brandon Jacobs that year, but instead took Essex.

Still think we are gonna see Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Urbik, Colon as the starting Mach 5 this year. Essex, Hills, Stapleton, Capizzi as reserves and if they keep 10 its between Shipley, Foster, Legursky, Parquet for that last spot.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 12:09 PM
[

I will mark your words and we will see in training camp.

ok , the bet is on Jackson .:rofl: 5 bucks good ?[/QUOTE]

5-bucks or bragging rights........BB. Its all good.

Its not a point that I vehemently need to defend, but objectively just think that after watching Urbik in college and watching Stapleton in the NFL. Urbik is the better OG. Tomlin always says starters are anointed in pads and I think we will see Urbik perform better in training camp.

A solid veteran like Hartwig will be a great mentor for an all big 10 guard like Urbik. I just hope they work together on the Mach 5 this year.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 12:20 PM
Still think we are gonna see Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Urbik, Colon as the starting Mach 5 this year. Essex, Hills, Stapleton, Capizzi as reserves and if they keep 10 its between Shipley, Foster, Legursky, Parquet for that last spot.

I agree except dont think both Hills and Capizzi will both make the team (maybe neither if Foster pans out)

thumper
05-12-2009, 12:21 PM
i think urbick beats him out, and it ultimately makes hartwig a better player.

it will be like upgrading 2 positions. 3rd round linemen come in and start as rookies all the time in the nfl and he should be no different.

OG is one of the easiest spots for rookies to start. Stap is no natural OG. Urbick is. And he plays with a mean streak, so I say he does crack the line up. They need another dude who is mean out there. Kemo is one. We need another.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 12:31 PM
I agree except dont think both Hills and Capizzi will both make the team (maybe neither if Foster pans out)

You may be right. The Steelers traditionally keep 9 O linemen, but I think with Starks, Colon and Hartwig's contracts expiring after this season, they keep 10 and plan for losing at least 1 of the 3.

I agree that keeping Capizzi might be a long shot. I think they belive Hills is a keeper. Foster seems like a practice squad guy to me, or at best he is the backup RT. He doesnt have the feet to play LT and his only advantage over Colon is height and reach.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 12:33 PM
He doesnt have the feet to play LT and his only advantage over Colon is height and reach.

Foster's other advantages over Colon might be actually being able to block people and also not taking stupid penalties

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-12-2009, 12:34 PM
You may be right. The Steelers traditionally keep 9 O linemen, but I think with Starks, Colon and Hartwig's contracts expiring after this season, they keep 10 and plan for losing at least 1 of the 3.

I agree that keeping Capizzi might be a long shot. I think they belive Hills is a keeper. Foster seems like a practice squad guy to me, or at best he is the backup RT. He doesnt have the feet to play LT and his only advantage over Colon is height and reach.

From what I have seen of Foster he seems to ...."lumber"...a little to much for a NFL OT. Seems a tad slow

steelreserve
05-12-2009, 12:42 PM
Colon had something like 6 sacks allowed and 8 penalties on him the entire season. The Steelers are not going to put an inferior run blocker in Essex there to reduce 15 negative plays a season to maybe 10. IMO Essex is a valuable backup, but just that........a backup. I still cringe that we didnt draft Chris Canty or Brandon Jacobs that year, but instead took Essex.

Talk about something that would've instantly made our offense dangerous from all directions. Ugh.

I'm no expert on judging how good of a run blocker Essex would be compared to Colon, so I'll just trust you on that one. It just seemed to me that the right side sucked at run blocking anyway with Colon there, so what's the difference. Although I do keep coming back to the fact that, if Essex was good enough to be the starter, he's had a shot at stepping up to win the job at four of the five OL positions -- sometimes more than once -- and he never has.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 12:47 PM
Foster's other advantages over Colon might be actually being able to block people and also not taking stupid penalties

If Ramon Foster has heavier feet and a poor kick slide(which he does), he will have to hold speed rushers even more often than Willie Colon. :banging:

Here is his scouting report and why he was an UDFA.

Ramon Foster, OL
-Might need to move inside because although he has a fair kick-slide in pass protection, he does not have the lateral quickness to stay with the quick outside rush. Hands are not quick enough to reset if he doesn't latch on initially. Waist-bender who loses his balance too often when extending his arms and not moving his feet in pass protection and blocking at the second level. Lumbers in space and does not change directions quickly. Poor recovery speed against twists and quick moves.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ramon-foster?id=81821#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis

There is your guy that is gonna push Hills and Capizzi off the roster.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 12:51 PM
There is your guy that is gonna push Hills and Capizzi off the roster.

I was just being hopefull. I've never seen him play, just read a recent article about him.

And since when was Capizzi ever on our roster?

Capizzi has been bumped around several team's practice squad. Stop acting like he is a fixture on our roster

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 12:57 PM
Talk about something that would've instantly made our offense dangerous from all directions. Ugh.

I'm no expert on judging how good of a run blocker Essex would be compared to Colon, so I'll just trust you on that one. It just seemed to me that the right side sucked at run blocking anyway with Colon there, so what's the difference. Although I do keep coming back to the fact that, if Essex was good enough to be the starter, he's had a shot at stepping up to win the job at four of the five OL positions -- sometimes more than once -- and he never has.

I LOVE watching physical run blocking....and Colon is the best the Steelers have. He is mean, nasty, violent, maintains a strong base and drives well with his feet. The problem is that most fans only see the mistakes and generalize about players. Colon gets 8-10 penalties all season and everbody thinks he sucks. They see a play get stuffed on the right side and blame the guy with the most penalties.

Against Dallas, the Steelers get stuffed on a goal line run and Colon gets blame. I rewind it and see that Spaeth missed the block, while Colon obliterated Marcus Spears.

Against the Giants, Colon makes a great block that springs Mewelde Moore for a 20 yard TD run and everybody cheers Moore and remembers that Colon had a holding call in the 4th quarter and he sucks.

The best O linemen on the Steelers are Hartwig, Colon and hopefully now Urbik. Kemo is inconsistent and hopefully improves, while Starks sadly has all the size and talent, but limited intensity and technique.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 01:02 PM
The problem is that most fans only see the mistakes and generalize about players. Colon gets 8-10 penalties all season and everbody thinks he sucks. They see a play get stuffed on the right side and blame the guy with the most penalties.

I think he sucks because of his pass protection. Defensive ends constantly get right around him for a free shot on Ben

The best O linemen on the Steelers are Hartwig, Colon and hopefully now Urbik. Kemo is inconsistent and hopefully improves, while Starks sadly has all the size and talent, but limited intensity and technique..

Colon is the worst imo

Kemo hopefully improves since he was only a 1st year starter

Hartwig and Starks are okay

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 01:08 PM
I was just being hopefull. I've never seen him play, just read a recent article about him.

And since when was Capizzi ever on our roster?

Capizzi has been bumped around several team's practice squad. Stop acting like he is a fixture on our roster

Therein lies the rub.

1. you say that neither Hills or Capizzi might make the team if Foster pans out, but have never seen him play. Yet, you ridicule anybody that considered Jarron Gilbert as a draft pick and have never seen him play either (only a youtube video)

2. Capizzi was on our roster when Marvel Smith was put on injured reserve. IF you watched him play the past few seasons in preseason you will see he is tall, with long arms, moves his feet well in run blocking, but otherwise looks stiff and doesnt bend his knees well in pass protection.

3. I am not acting like Capizzi is a fixture on the Steelers. He is merely the incumbent backup OT once Marvel Smith was on injured reserve(he wore #71 on the sidelines of SBXLIII) Now since Smith has gone............who is gonna take his place???

My guess is that Capizzi is supplanted by one of the OT's we drafted or signed in free agency. So far that is nobody, but training camp hasnt started yet.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 01:14 PM
I think he sucks because of his pass protection. Defensive ends constantly get right around him for a free shot on Ben



Colon allowed 5.75 sacks in 506 pass attempts last season. I guess 1% of the time = "constantly" in your mind. :rolleyes:

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 01:15 PM
Therein lies the rub.

1. you say that neither Hills or Capizzi might make the team if Foster pans out, but have never seen him play. .

I said I doubt both will make it. Hills has shown nothing yet and Capizzi has never made our roster but you are automatically penciling him in??? Seriously WTF is that? that's ridiculous


2. Capizzi was on our roster when Marvel Smith was put on injured reserve. .

Practice squad not roster


3. I am not acting like Capizzi is a fixture on the Steelers. He is merely the incumbent backup OT once Marvel Smith was on injured reserve(he wore #71 on the sidelines of SBXLIII) Now since Smith has gone............who is gonna take his place??? . LOL, you do know that we signed Capizzi from another team's practice squad to put on our practice squad as an insurance policy after Marvel Smith was put on IR. Essex is/was our backup LT

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 01:16 PM
Colon allowed 5.75 sacks in 506 pass attempts last season. I guess 1% of the time = "constantly" in your mind. :rolleyes:

LOL, here we go

Big Ben was constantly dodging sacks and running for his life back there. Everyone knows it, stop pretending like it didn't happen

tony hipchest
05-12-2009, 01:26 PM
And since when was Capizzi ever on our roster?

12/23/08 capizzi activated to 53 man roster. what part about that do you not understand?

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 01:36 PM
Capizzi was on the 53 man roster for SB XLIII.

Scouts inc ranked all 106 players in the Super Bowl and had Capizzi as #102

102. OT Jason Capizzi -- Steelers
He's a backup with very good size, but he plays tall and will struggle with leverage. He has very limited experience. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3849137

He was also on the active roster for the 2008 playoff loss to the Jaguars.

You do know that the Steelers picked Capizzi up off the Rams practice squad as backup OT??? I guess they didnt feel comfortable with Hills being the only backup OT if Exxex had to play guard.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 01:46 PM
LOL, here we go

Big Ben was constantly dodging sacks and running for his life back there. Everyone knows it, stop pretending like it didn't happen

Again, please let me know when constantly means 1 or 2% of the passing downs??

Also, please tell me how many times Greg Ellis beat Colon and sacked Ben of the 33 passing attempts vs. the Cowboys??? or how many times Colon gave up a sack or got beat vs. the Cardinals?? .........I know, "constantly". :rolleyes:

Many fans only see what they want to see and lock in on the mistakes. Funny how that "everyone knows it" and I assume you mean that Colon cant pass block............but for some reason the Steelers gave him a qualifying contract and assert his is the starting RT.

Next time there is a Steelers game this upcoming season, I challenge anybody to record it and break down every offensive play to see what actually happened..........instead of just complaining about the 5 mistakes the refs saw.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 01:51 PM
12/23/08 capizzi activated to 53 man roster. what part about that do you not understand?

for a game or 2 because of injuries

he was on our practice squad far more than our roster (a couple game)

steelreserve
05-12-2009, 01:52 PM
I LOVE watching physical run blocking....and Colon is the best the Steelers have. He is mean, nasty, violent, maintains a strong base and drives well with his feet. The problem is that most fans only see the mistakes and generalize about players. Colon gets 8-10 penalties all season and everbody thinks he sucks. They see a play get stuffed on the right side and blame the guy with the most penalties.

Nah, I wasn't blaming it on him because of that, it was because the overall stats for our adjusted line yards were horrible on that side. We actually averaged over 4.0 yards per running play to the left, but almost a full yard lower to the right. Can't find the stats right now, but that really stuck out in my mind. Obviously, part of the reason is having two huge guys on the left, part of it is Stapleton getting shoved around, and I don't know which side the tight end played on most often.

I don't really blame most of the sacks on any one lineman anyway, since it seemed like a ton of them were the result of two or more linemen getting confused, or trying to make up for someone else's mistake, thereby making a mistake themselves. You'd see a lot of the time where they'd double-team a guy and forget to pick up the blitzing linebacker, or where one of them would pop up and have no one to block while Parker had to get a defensive tackle.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 01:53 PM
Again, please let me know when constantly means 1 or 2% of the passing downs??.

wtf are u talking about 1 or 2 percent? that's stupid to look at how many sacks he gave up then say that's the only times Colon was beat. absolutely moronic

Colon gets beat constantly on passing downs.

I count 50 %

sherlock
05-12-2009, 01:57 PM
Gotta say that I think Colon is unjustifiably vilified amongst the o-line.
His biggest problem is the penalties he incurs......but no-one`s perfect.:noidea:

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 02:05 PM
Capizzi was on the 53 man roster for SB XLIII.


he was inactive

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 02:09 PM
wtf are u talking about 1 or 2 percent? that's stupid to look at how many sacks he gave up then say that's the only times Colon was beat. absolutely moronic

Colon gets beat constantly on passing downs.

I count 50 %

No, what is stupid and moronic is to state that Capizzi was never on our active roster in bold letters and then when proven wrong...........backpedal and then say it was only for a game or 2. Actually its very juvenile.

Guessing that Colon gets beat 50% of the time, without actually being able to document, prove or say you ever watched him for an entire game is again very juvenile and inaccurate.

I would honestly estimate that Colon gets beat with an outside speed rush, 5 out of 30 times a game, but recovers and stays with the rusher, which allows the QB to step up, or he has to rely on Ben evading the rusher.

The thing that I dont get is that if James Harrison beats Joe Thomas of Cleveland to the outside 5 times a game for a sack or QB pressure........Harrison is great!!! But, if Terrell Suggs beats Colon 5 times a game for a sack and some QB pressures....Colon sucks?? :screwy:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 02:12 PM
And since when was Capizzi ever on our roster?


I think you said this above........not anything about Capizzi being "active" or not.

As far as I can remember, being put on the active roster means you are part of the 53 man roster. Its OK to admitt you were wrong.....I have done it. My 4 year old does it too and we hug it out. :hug: , but I am sure when he is 14 he will learn the words stupid and moronic and never admitt it again.

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 02:20 PM
I think you said this above........not anything about Capizzi being "active" or not.

As far as I can remember, being put on the active roster means you are part of the 53 man roster. Its OK to admitt you were wrong.....I have done it. My 4 year old does it too and we hug it out. :hug: , but I am sure when he is 14 he will learn the words stupid and moronic and never admitt it again.

big deal

he was on our roster because of injuries

he was on our practice squad more weeks than he was on our roster

How many games was Capizzi actually in pads? 1, maybe 2, maybe 0???

Back to my original point, Capizzi is not a lock to make this team next year as you implied

tony hipchest
05-12-2009, 02:22 PM
for a game or 2 because of injuries...

...or 5.

but hey, why get bogged down with details and facts, right?

:hunch:

Hammer67
05-12-2009, 02:33 PM
Again, please let me know when constantly means 1 or 2% of the passing downs??

Also, please tell me how many times Greg Ellis beat Colon and sacked Ben of the 33 passing attempts vs. the Cowboys??? or how many times Colon gave up a sack or got beat vs. the Cardinals?? .........I know, "constantly". :rolleyes:

Many fans only see what they want to see and lock in on the mistakes. Funny how that "everyone knows it" and I assume you mean that Colon cant pass block............but for some reason the Steelers gave him a qualifying contract and assert his is the starting RT.

Next time there is a Steelers game this upcoming season, I challenge anybody to record it and break down every offensive play to see what actually happened..........instead of just complaining about the 5 mistakes the refs saw.

Good points...and, to add to that, I believe most of the pressure Ben recieved this year was from the middle of the line, forcing him to scramble to the outside...I think Colon has promise. Although, to be fair, he isn't the best right tackle in the game (or the AFC North for that matter)

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 02:35 PM
Back to my original point, Capizzi is not a lock to make this team next year as you implied

Nowhere in my post did I imply that Capizzi is a lock. Rather look at what I said and focus on the words "think" and "reserves". Based on who is on our roster right now I think Capizzi will beat out Ramon Foster as a backup OT.

It's just my opinion and I dont think its justified of being called "stupid and moronic". But, like Tony said.....why get bogged down with details and facts.


Still think we are gonna see Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Urbik, Colon as the starting Mach 5 this year. Essex, Hills, Stapleton, Capizzi as reserves...

Steel Head
05-12-2009, 02:37 PM
...or 5.

but hey, why get bogged down with details and facts, right?

:hunch:

that proves it, Capizzi is a lock for our roster

:screwy:

Hammer67
05-12-2009, 02:39 PM
why are you guys name calling over OL roster speculation?
:noidea:

:drink:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 02:41 PM
Good points...and, to add to that, I believe most of the pressure Ben recieved this year was from the middle of the line, forcing him to scramble to the outside...I think Colon has promise. Although, to be fair, he isn't the best right tackle in the game (or the AFC North for that matter)

Hammer, I agree. I said after breaking down film that Colon jumps offside because of his lack of height and arm length. I think he is a strong run blocker, with quick feet and a non-stop motor, that should have been moved to guard, but it doesnt look like the Steelers are thinking that way.

BTW, the more I look at things....if the Steelers keep 10 O linemen..it's between your guy Shipley, Parquet and Legursky to be there. Gonna be interesting camp in July. :excited:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 02:44 PM
why are you guys name calling over OL roster speculation?
:noidea:

:drink:
Hammer, its May......the choice was argue over OL roster speculation or another "Arians Sucks" thread. :doh: :chuckle:

BTW, I try to stay above name calling. The whole sticks and stones thing hasnt worked for me in 30 years.

Hammer67
05-12-2009, 02:53 PM
As long as you find it entertaining, then what works, works.

I think Shipley will surprise....although there are many doubters. (I should say that I "hope" he does)

After Faneca left, I need another OL jersey to buy. I hate wearing the typical Ben or Ward jerseys...I am a hog, and I promote them. Although, last year left me lacking a main man for the first time.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 02:58 PM
After Faneca left, I need another OL jersey to buy. I hate wearing the typical Ben or Ward jerseys...I am a hog, and I promote them. Although, last year left me lacking a main man for the first time.

Urbik is gonna wear #65 this year. You can change the name if you feel it.

Otherwise, just trade in that old Mahan jersey for #61 A.Q. Shipley. :chuckle:

WV-SteelerFan
05-12-2009, 04:06 PM
As long as you find it entertaining, then what works, works.

I think Shipley will surprise....although there are many doubters. (I should say that I "hope" he does)

After Faneca left, I need another OL jersey to buy. I hate wearing the typical Ben or Ward jerseys...I am a hog, and I promote them. Although, last year left me lacking a main man for the first time.

Not having anything to really add to this thread, (seeing as how (1) everything has been said & (2) It IS only May...lol) but I agree, it seems nobody likes wearing the jersey of a "lowly" lineman, etc...:thumbsup:

WV-SteelerFan
05-12-2009, 04:10 PM
As long as you find it entertaining, then what works, works.

I think Shipley will surprise....although there are many doubters. (I should say that I "hope" he does)

After Faneca left, I need another OL jersey to buy. I hate wearing the typical Ben or Ward jerseys...I am a hog, and I promote them. Although, last year left me lacking a main man for the first time.

Not having anything to really add to this thread, but, I agree...:thumbsup:... It seems nobody like wearing the jersey of a "lowly" lineman, etc.

steelwall
05-12-2009, 07:00 PM
Cohesion comes... no logic in keeping a player in who is out performed by another player at his position. I'm sure the guys would welcome Urbik if he is an ugrade.. These linemen want to protect the QB (after all that is their purpose)