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View Full Version : What does Coach Tomlin See in Mr Arians?


Slanted August
05-11-2009, 07:21 PM
Trib & Planet Steeler Refugee looking for a new home...

Guys, (and Gals)

I am new here so I apologize if this topic has beaten to death but as smart as a guy as Tomlin is why does he keep B.A.?

I do want to state that I am like a lot of other Steeler fans and have a hard time sitting back and being satisfied as we just won another Super Bowl. Maybe I am coming across as one of those Steeler fans who can never be pleased and always needs somethign to b!tch about.

With the way teams prepare and study tendancies I am shocked how Bruce calls a game with situational downs. Again, I know am nothing more than a fan but how many times you see them line up at the three yard line only to have the poor running back caught in the backfield. If you were to take the Steelers, Colts, and Pats* and place the ball on the three yard line we would be lucky to score 3 out of 10 attempts while the others would probably stick it in the endzone probably around 7-10 times.

I know I have heard the arguement that the coaches coach and the players play but who is ultimately responsible for that execution and preparation? Could it be that simple like we did not have the personnel?

Its no secret that our Oline is average at best but what about some roll outs and true 4-5 wide receiver sets and screens (OK forget the screens).

What can we do to improve or what would you like to see more of?

tony hipchest
05-11-2009, 07:36 PM
I do want to state that I am like a lot of other Steeler fans and have a hard time sitting back and being satisfied as we just won another Super Bowl. Maybe I am coming across as one of those Steeler fans who can never be pleased and always needs somethign to b!tch about.

?stay tuned and good luck....

stillers4me
05-11-2009, 07:37 PM
I am new here so I apologize if this topic has beaten to death but as smart as a guy as Tomlin is why does he keep B.A.?

You are asking to be beaten to death by even daring to even ask this question. :chuckle:

sackmaster56
05-11-2009, 07:40 PM
I agree. I don't like the way he calls it on 3rd & short. May as well tell the other team what we're doing. Really doesnt make sense when we have some of the best hands in the league in Heath and Hines(MVP) not to mention Santonio(MVP). Wake Up Bruce!!!! Big Ben can keep just about any play alive and give you a great chance at scoring. Use this!!!

srk173
05-11-2009, 08:14 PM
I don't like some of the calls he makes in certain situations but you can't argue the final product!

fansince'76
05-11-2009, 08:35 PM
I do want to state that I am like a lot of other Steeler fans and have a hard time sitting back and being satisfied as we just won another Super Bowl.

I'm not, but I'm also one of the ones who are old enough to have lived through and remember the entire "drought" (1980-2005) and don't take it for granted that a SB win is in the cards every couple of years. That's just me, though.

truesteelerfan
05-11-2009, 08:37 PM
I don't know if we can't argue with the final product....I mean we're an average offense statistically right? I mean, we have some superstars on the offensive side of the ball, yet we are only average in yards, points, etc.

SteelersMongol
05-11-2009, 09:04 PM
But he did help us 2 get the 6th, didn't he?

pancake
05-11-2009, 09:08 PM
But he did help us 2 get the 6th, didn't he?

Thats the only reason his job is safe... IMO

HometownGal
05-11-2009, 09:16 PM
Maybe I am coming across as one of those Steeler fans who can never be pleased and always needs somethign to b!tch about.



Took the words right outta my mouth.

I have no problem with Bruce Arians. Have you forgotten that Ben has the option on every down to change the play if he sees something across the line that doesn't look right? I've been a Steelers fan for a lot of seasons and I've always trusted our FO and our HC to do what they feel is best for the team - that is why they make the big moola.

If Coach T has every confidence in Arians, and obviously he does, who am I - a fan with no NFL coaching experience - to question his judgment?

billybob
05-11-2009, 09:48 PM
We don't have the " bus " anymore , and teams don't respect our short yardage running game either , they snub our o-line , so the only thing left to do is go out and draft a "TANK " . Things will change now Steel Brother .

billybob
05-11-2009, 09:54 PM
Can a Tank , do what a Bus used to do ? Ask yourself that 10 times . If a Tank can't carry as many people as a Bus , it surely should be able to plow them over .:tt03:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2009, 10:28 PM
Can we at least wait until the first preseason loss to complain about playcalling. :doh:

BlastFurnace
05-11-2009, 11:42 PM
B.A. is good in my book. If Mike T. likes him...I'm fine with him as well.

B.A. looks like a genius compared to some of the people who have called plays in the past...Joe Walton and Ray Sherman come to mind.

OneForTheToe
05-11-2009, 11:47 PM
Can we at least wait until the first preseason loss to complain about playcalling. :doh:


IDK, Gonzo. I hear some of those plays at the OTAs were pretty predictable.:flap:

X-Terminator
05-12-2009, 12:15 AM
Maybe I am coming across as one of those Steeler fans who can never be pleased and always needs somethign to b!tch about.

Yeah, pretty much. It is the staple of the average Steelers fan. Even going 19-0 would not be good enough for this type of fan.

billybob
05-12-2009, 12:20 AM
Can we at least wait until the first preseason loss to complain about playcalling. :doh:

Arians lover , Arians lover , El Gonzo is an Arians lover !!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl::rofl:

billybob
05-12-2009, 12:24 AM
I'm sorry buddy , i could not resist the temptation . :rofl: :tt03: :rofl: :wave:

Steelers & I
05-12-2009, 12:45 AM
Well I guess someone should go ahead and shut down the forum then. If we as fans, are forbidden from questioning the coaching staff, any play call, the draft choices, the play of the offensive linemen, the re-signing and releasing of certain players, because the front office always knows best, then where's the point in having a chat forum?

Here's an idea, this is the ONLY acceptable response to ANYTHING regarding a Steelers player, coach, the front office, transactions, and news. :cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

billybob
05-12-2009, 12:52 AM
Well I guess someone should go ahead and shut down the forum then. If we as fans, are forbidden from questioning the coaching staff, any play call, the draft choices, the play of the offensive linemen, the re-signing and releasing of certain players, because the front office always knows best, then where's the point in having a chat forum?

Here's an idea, this is the ONLY acceptable response to ANYTHING regarding a Steelers player, coach, the front office, transactions, and news. :cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

Even your avitar exclaims that you have an attitude .:rofl: You want to step outside sir ? :rofl: Don't give me , " it didn't start outside " line either ! :rofl:

Preacher
05-12-2009, 01:12 AM
Well I guess someone should go ahead and shut down the forum then.

So let's get this right. Those of you who want to kvetch about everything B&G should be able to post in all the threads you want concerning anythign and everything. However, if someone chooses NOT to kvetch about team or the coaches, THEY should keep silent and not speak THEIR opinion about it being asinine to complain? Really?


If we as fans, are forbidden from questioning the coaching staff, any play call, the draft choices, the play of the offensive linemen, the re-signing and releasing of certain players, because the front office always knows best, then where's the point in having a chat forum?

No one is saying it is forbidden. In argumentation what you did is called a Red Herring. In Psychology it is called a cognitive distortion. Here it is called "typical" for anyone who wants things to complain about and are upset when others point out that the complaining sounds juvenile.

The point in having THIS forum, according to the advertising, is "Intelligent Discussions." That seems to preclude "Arians Sucks" threads. However, thread asking, "Was it Ben or Arians who managed the clock poorly at teh end of the first half" seems to fit the "intelligent discussion" criteria.

Please tell me you understand the difference. In other words, THINK before someone posts. El Gonzo is the perfect example... He ripped on Mahan . . . but was THOUGHTFUL in doing it. THAT is what the forum is for.

Not beating the same horse OVER AND OVER with the SAME ARGUMENTS...

Here's an idea, this is the ONLY acceptable response to ANYTHING regarding a Steelers player, coach, the front office, transactions, and news. :cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

And here, you are being an outright blinded ass. Every person here has criticized or questioned the team and the FO at some point.

What you don't seem to understand is the WAY which some people do it is quite ignorant, as if that person has THE TRUTH and God-forbid anyone else challenge them on the fact that "arians sucks" or that on a certain play in a certain situation, they should have called "THAT" play.

May I suggest something? If you or ANYONE ELSE is really THAT TALENTED that you KNOW what should be called, go start coaching little league football. That way, in about 15 years you can work up to college and then maybe the pro's yourself.

If not, then realize, chances are, the FO DOES KNOW MORE THAN YOU.

Steelers & I
05-12-2009, 01:19 AM
Even your avitar exclaims that you have an attitude .:rofl: You want to step outside sir ? :rofl: Don't give me , " it didn't start outside " line either ! :rofl:


You're going to have to get an 8 year old to type something for you that makes a little sense. I have no freaking idea as to what you're attempting to convey with that mess.

billybob
05-12-2009, 01:35 AM
You're going to have to get an 8 year old to type something for you that makes a little sense. I have no freaking idea as to what you're attempting to convey with that mess.

I can add 40 more to that , i was just taken back by your reply to the thread . I was just messin with you , guess i was having a laugh on myself . Sorry sir . You wanna put out that smoke ? :rofl:

billybob
05-12-2009, 01:44 AM
So let's get this right. Those of you who want to kvetch about everything B&G should be able to post in all the threads you want concerning anythign and everything. However, if someone chooses NOT to kvetch about team or the coaches, THEY should keep silent and not speak THEIR opinion about it being asinine to complain? Really?



No one is saying it is forbidden. In argumentation what you did is called a Red Herring. In Psychology it is called a cognitive distortion. Here it is called "typical" for anyone who wants things to complain about and are upset when others point out that the complaining sounds juvenile.

The point in having THIS forum, according to the advertising, is "Intelligent Discussions." That seems to preclude "Arians Sucks" threads. However, thread asking, "Was it Ben or Arians who managed the clock poorly at teh end of the first half" seems to fit the "intelligent discussion" criteria.

Please tell me you understand the difference. In other words, THINK before someone posts. El Gonzo is the perfect example... He ripped on Mahan . . . but was THOUGHTFUL in doing it. THAT is what the forum is for.

Not beating the same horse OVER AND OVER with the SAME ARGUMENTS...



And here, you are being an outright blinded ass. Every person here has criticized or questioned the team and the FO at some point.

What you don't seem to understand is the WAY which some people do it is quite ignorant, as if that person has THE TRUTH and God-forbid anyone else challenge them on the fact that "arians sucks" or that on a certain play in a certain situation, they should have called "THAT" play.

May I suggest something? If you or ANYONE ELSE is really THAT TALENTED that you KNOW what should be called, go start coaching little league football. That way, in about 15 years you can work up to college and then maybe the pro's yourself.

If not, then realize, chances are, the FO DOES KNOW MORE THAN YOU.

Way to talk pop , could you please pass the potatoes ?

Steelers & I
05-12-2009, 01:47 AM
So let's get this right. Those of you who want to kvetch about everything B&G should be able to post in all the threads you want concerning anythign and everything. However, if someone chooses NOT to kvetch about team or the coaches, THEY should keep silent and not speak THEIR opinion about it being asinine to complain? Really?

No, you got that wrong. That's your assumption, not mine. Those words were not typed by me. I don't have a problem with anything that is discussed in these forums. It's you a few others who seem to always police what someone should and shouldn't say.



No one is saying it is forbidden. In argumentation what you did is called a Red Herring. In Psychology it is called a cognitive distortion. Here it is called "typical" for anyone who wants things to complain about and are upset when others point out that the complaining sounds juvenile.

The mans post didn't sound anymore juvenile then calling the Steelers offensive linemen "turnstiles". So I suppose if he wanted to jump on board with that notion, then he would receive pats on the back from those of you who like to "complain" about the "complaining".

The point in having THIS forum, according to the advertising, is "Intelligent Discussions." That seems to preclude "Arians Sucks" threads. However, thread asking, "Was it Ben or Arians who managed the clock poorly at teh end of the first half" seems to fit the "intelligent discussion" criteria.

First of all Preacher, I didn't start this thread so check yourself at the door.

Please tell me you understand the difference. In other words, THINK before someone posts. El Gonzo is the perfect example... He ripped on Mahan . . . but was THOUGHTFUL in doing it. THAT is what the forum is for.

Ok, I'll keep that in mind when I post, thoughtfullness, just as you did with this particular post. I simply said that someone should be able to post their beliefs, whether right or wrong, without someone confronting them with "The front office is always right card".

Don't get me wrong, I believe that the Steelers front office is nearly always right but they're not ALWAYS right. I don't feel the need to post their numerous mistakes, I'm sure you're aware of them. Maybe, just maybe, the thread originator may be hitting on something that ultimately will turn out to be another front office mistake.

Not beating the same horse OVER AND OVER with the SAME ARGUMENTS...

Once again, I didn't start the thread but I chose to view it. If you had a problem with the the thread title, then maybe you should have just moved on. That's what I would do under those circumstances.


And here, you are being an outright blinded ass.Every person here has criticized or questioned the team and the FO at some point.

As they say on the Geico commercial, "I KNOW'. Some question, even criticze, the front office with no retribution, I guess it's a cool gig if you can get it.

What you don't seem to understand is the WAY which some people do it is quite ignorant, as if that person has THE TRUTH and God-forbid anyone else challenge them on the fact that "arians sucks" or that on a certain play in a certain situation, they should have called "THAT" play.

I feel you, lmao. Maybe they should take lessons from you Sir! From here on out, this particular post by Preacher should be used as a guide by ALL who want to criticize ANYTHING about the Steelers.

May I suggest something? If you or ANYONE ELSE is really THAT TALENTED that you KNOW what should be called, go start coaching little league football. That way, in about 15 years you can work up to college and then maybe the pro's yourself.

Where have I said that I'm a viable candidate? Well, WHERE???

If not, then realize, chances are, the FO DOES KNOW MORE THAN YOU.

Just brilliant. :thumbsup:

billybob
05-12-2009, 02:51 AM
We all have been through a lot of Arians and o-line threads . Everyone wants to blame Arians for his play calling , some drop the dime on the o-line . Some say the injuries to our running backs had something to do with our poor play . Some brave people even blame Big Ben , cause he holds on to the ball too long , and moves around so much , you would have to build a cage to know where he would be next time you glanced . The thing is , i think everyone would be correct . We had so many things wrong with our offense , that the opposing defense did not know how to defend our pathetic offense. They could not even defend their pathetic drive to score the winning touchdown in superbowl 43 . The defense held their own , and you hear nothing offensive about their stance they played in our successful quest for # 6 . Not even the quick lapse in the 3rd ,4th quarter could bring any wrath upon that unit . Only the offense has that distinction . Maybe this year we can have a team that plays up to all of our expectations. I hope not , because i look forward to # 7 .:tt02: :tt02: :tt02: :tt02: :tt02: :tt02: :tt02:

Preacher
05-12-2009, 03:49 AM
[quote]

No, you got that wrong. That's your assumption, not mine. Those words were not typed by me. I don't have a problem with anything that is discussed in these forums. It's you a few others who seem to always police what someone should and shouldn't say.




The mans post didn't sound anymore juvenile then calling the Steelers offensive linemen "turnstiles". So I suppose if he wanted to jump on board with that notion, then he would receive pats on the back from those of you who like to "complain" about the "complaining".



First of all Preacher, I didn't start this thread so check yourself at the door.



Ok, I'll keep that in mind when I post, thoughtfullness, just as you did with this particular post. I simply said that someone should be able to post their beliefs, whether right or wrong, without someone confronting them with "The front office is always right card".

Don't get me wrong, I believe that the Steelers front office is nearly always right but they're not ALWAYS right. I don't feel the need to post their numerous mistakes, I'm sure you're aware of them. Maybe, just maybe, the thread originator may be hitting on something that ultimately will turn out to be another front office mistake.



Once again, I didn't start the thread but I chose to view it. If you had a problem with the the thread title, then maybe you should have just moved on. That's what I would do under those circumstances.




As they say on the Geico commercial, "I KNOW'. Some question, even criticze, the front office with no retribution, I guess it's a cool gig if you can get it.

[

I feel you, lmao. Maybe they should take lessons from you Sir! From here on out, this particular post by Preacher should be used as a guide by ALL who want to criticize ANYTHING about the Steelers.



Where have I said that I'm a viable candidate? Well, WHERE???



Just brilliant. :thumbsup:

Let me restate some things... because as I read through them, I realize how condenscending it sounded... and it wasn't intended as so...

1. I personally get frustrated because it seems that some people are not happy (this is a general statement, not intended towards you in particular) unless they are complaining.

I'm sure you, S & I, know what I mean. We all have that one friend that whenever we hang out with them, it is all about how this or that is bad. See a great movie? Well, it wasn't so great because blah blah blah. Eat at a great restaurant? Well, it wasn't so great because you can eat at so and so at half the price blah blah blah. You know what I mean?

It seems like the same thing happens here. Sure, don't click on a thread. But go back to the season, and how many threads were on teh board at the same time with seperate renditions of Arians sucks? And THEN, how many times does it pop up into other threads? I know people feel a certain way. But there comes a point when enough is enough. That was my major point on this issue.

2. My problem with teh beginning of this thread is the assumption that BA sucks and therefore, if Tomlin is smart, why doesn't he get rid of him? It is a common assumption that we, who are on the outside know a heck of a lot more than those on the inside. It shows a lack of perspective and that, in my estimation, is juvemile. I coulda and shoulda said it a different way.... I accept your rebuke. Thanks.

3. You know, I don't like nor dislike BA. I would be fascinated to see a statistical analysis of his calls last year, why he called what he did when he did. Now, I for one, called the O line turnstyles last year. However, I did in the midst of providing REASONING for it. That is my main point. I have no idea what threads like this (I understand he prefaced it with not knowing whether it was already discussed) do to further ANY discussion.

4. Quote:
The point in having THIS forum, according to the advertising, is "Intelligent Discussions." That seems to preclude "Arians Sucks" threads. However, thread asking, "Was it Ben or Arians who managed the clock poorly at teh end of the first half" seems to fit the "intelligent discussion" criteria.
First of all Preacher, I didn't start this thread so check yourself at the door.

I was simply answering a question as to why to have this forum. The advertised reason is for "intelligent discussions."

5. My point about thoughtfulness goes back to the idea of furthering a discussion. . . or adding to it in a different way.... Like Tony does:
http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/cheese-iditozobel.jpg

:rofl:


Seriously... I have no problem with people asking question of the FO. I question certain draft picks... IT is the broken record in multiple threads that has gotten so annoying over the last few years.

Steelers & I
05-12-2009, 04:49 AM
Let me restate some things... because as I read through them, I realize how condenscending it sounded... and it wasn't intended as so...

1. I personally get frustrated because it seems that some people are not happy (this is a general statement, not intended towards you in particular) unless they are complaining.

I'm sure you, S & I, know what I mean. We all have that one friend that whenever we hang out with them, it is all about how this or that is bad. See a great movie? Well, it wasn't so great because blah blah blah. Eat at a great restaurant? Well, it wasn't so great because you can eat at so and so at half the price blah blah blah. You know what I mean?

It seems like the same thing happens here. Sure, don't click on a thread. But go back to the season, and how many threads were on teh board at the same time with seperate renditions of Arians sucks? And THEN, how many times does it pop up into other threads? I know people feel a certain way. But there comes a point when enough is enough. That was my major point on this issue.

2. My problem with teh beginning of this thread is the assumption that BA sucks and therefore, if Tomlin is smart, why doesn't he get rid of him? It is a common assumption that we, who are on the outside know a heck of a lot more than those on the inside. It shows a lack of perspective and that, in my estimation, is juvemile. I coulda and shoulda said it a different way.... I accept your rebuke. Thanks.

3. You know, I don't like nor dislike BA. I would be fascinated to see a statistical analysis of his calls last year, why he called what he did when he did. Now, I for one, called the O line turnstyles last year. However, I did in the midst of providing REASONING for it. That is my main point. I have no idea what threads like this (I understand he prefaced it with not knowing whether it was already discussed) do to further ANY discussion.

4.

I was simply answering a question as to why to have this forum. The advertised reason is for "intelligent discussions."

5. My point about thoughtfulness goes back to the idea of furthering a discussion. . . or adding to it in a different way.... Like Tony does:
http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/cheese-iditozobel.jpg

:rofl:


[QUOTE]Seriously... I have no problem with people asking question of the FO. I question certain draft picks... IT is the broken record in multiple threads that has gotten so annoying over the last few years.

Well the guy is new to the forum so we'll have to cut him a little slack. He doesn't understand that we've had like 1000 threads which entail Arians bashing. I do however understand your point of view, some of the same old stuff gets old but again, the thread originator is new to the forum and in my opinion, it wasn't a pleasant welcoming. I just believe that people should be able to post in any manner that they choose to, so long as they're not cursing or taking personal jabs at other members.

I did my share of Arians bashing but I don't recall starting ANY of the threads. I mean seriously Preacher, it was a hot topic that many wanted to debate, too hot for some, who were banned, and too monotonous for others. I'll also mention that I came to Arians defense when he called, what I considered to be, a good game. I had no problems with Arians during the last few regular season games and the playoff run so I essentially backed off, I even ate a little crow when the Steelers front office kept him on board. So be it, the debate was still fun.

steelwall
05-12-2009, 05:03 AM
No secret we had trouble punching it in 3 yards out, but to become one dimmentional in those situations is not the answer. There was a couple times whe we got stuffed 1st down 2nd down and 3rd, perhaps he was thinking they would be expecting a pass on that down.

But that was last year, we have added players that should help in these situations this year. Our players should be able to cross the goiline 3 yards out, it's not entirely BA's fault.

Tomlin could have taken over the play call as well.

3rd and (goal or shorter, statisticly running it in is more succesful).....but had we passed the ball everytime in goalin situations and suffered a higher amount of interceptions, thus negating even a feild goal, people would be calling for Arians' head then too.

fansince'76
05-12-2009, 07:19 AM
Yep, this "argument" took the predictable turn. Anyone who doesn't bitch and squawk about the team in some form or fashion is obviously a Kool-Aid drinking cheerleader and/or a "lemming" incapable of "independent thought." Tiresome to say the least. :coffee:

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 09:07 AM
I've SEEN this happen:

-1st and goal on the one. We run and get stuffed. The fans say "We should have passed! Arians sucks!"
-1st and goal on the two. We pass and it's incomplete. The fans say "We should have run, because that's Steelers football! Arians sucks!"

The team puts up good numbers, the fans say it's in spite of Arians. The Steelers have a bad game, and it's all Arians fault.


20/20 hindsight is perfect. That's a big part of this.

tony hipchest
05-12-2009, 09:11 AM
lets ask ben.

hey ben... what does coach tomlin see in mr. ariAns?


http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0518/photo/ben_roethlisberger_cheese2_275.jpg

thank you ben.

BlastFurnace
05-12-2009, 09:50 AM
I can't wait to see this years rookie class in action. Especially Mike Wallace.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 10:11 AM
Arians lover , Arians lover , El Gonzo is an Arians lover !!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl::rofl:

Yes, I heard he called some great plays at that OTA and am happy that we are on this topic in ....................May??? :screwy:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 10:12 AM
I can't wait to see this years rookie class in action. Especially Mike Wallace.

Maybe wait a year. I dont think the #5 WR on the team is gonna make much of an impact this season.

SteelMember
05-12-2009, 10:43 AM
Maybe wait a year. I dont think the #5 WR on the team is gonna make much of an impact this season.

Maybe not at wideout, but I don't think the bar has been set that high in the return game. Improved? Yes, but not outstanding. He will have to prove he can catch and hold on to the ball in the NFL. College players have the luxury sometimes of being the fastest man on the field. In the NFL, almost everyone is fast, and BIGGER.

I've SEEN this happen:

-1st and goal on the one. We run and get stuffed. The fans say "We should have passed! Arians sucks!"
-1st and goal on the two. We pass and it's incomplete. The fans say "We should have run, because that's Steelers football! Arians sucks!"

The team puts up good numbers, the fans say it's in spite of Arians. The Steelers have a bad game, and it's all Arians fault.


20/20 hindsight is perfect. That's a big part of this.

And even if Arians is out at some point, these same things will happen.
Insert Name Here Sucks!

Hammer67
05-12-2009, 11:39 AM
stay tuned and good luck....


:toofunny: Noobs...

Hammer67
05-12-2009, 11:50 AM
As much as I love these threads, do we really need another? Aren't there enough to dig up and post to?

ANyway, I have seen a few people say "I should be able to post my points without getting an argument" or some variation of the sorts. I have to say, if you want to come on a chat forum and post a point of view and not expect disagreements, discussion or outright slamming, you have a seriously warped view of what a forum is.

Dino 6 Rings
05-12-2009, 11:57 AM
I was a real BA hater earlier in the season. But now after watching the season DVD that I got, and each game's highlights, I see why we didn't run more often in typical running situations. We couldn't. We got stuffed more times in short yardage then I can ever remember. 3nd 1, stuff, 4th and 1, stuff, 1st and goal, stuff...all year long.

It got to the point where we passed, because it was the only thing that worked. Whether it was the new Oline still needing time to get to know one another, the actually blocking scheme, the running backs being banged up all year, or the fact that the passing, actually worked to move the sticks, I can't say, it may be a combination of all the above.

However, that said, I have to believe that we'll be running the ball often this year, I don't see us trailing in too many games, so we should have leads, and be able to kill the clock by running, running, running, passing, running, running, running, running, running, passing, in the later parts of games this year.

Also, with Parker Healthy, Moore still on the Roster, Mendenhall Healthy and now, The Tank, I see us getting a lot more production out of our running game.

Plus we still have 2 Super Bowl MVPs at the WR Spot, a young tall guy in sweed, a vet in McDonald and speed demon in Wallace, I see our passing game actually being Better this year.

I see a huge production in our future out of the offense, the kind we haven't seen in a long time. Both with Runs and Passes. A Nice Balanced attack that puts up lots of points.

yes my friends...BA isn't the "greatest" but he's getting the job done.

I GOT A FEELING!

Hammer67
05-12-2009, 12:04 PM
I was a real BA hater earlier in the season. But now after watching the season DVD that I got, and each game's highlights, I see why we didn't run more often in typical running situations. We couldn't. We got stuffed more times in short yardage then I can ever remember. 3nd 1, stuff, 4th and 1, stuff, 1st and goal, stuff...all year long.

It got to the point where we passed, because it was the only thing that worked. Whether it was the new Oline still needing time to get to know one another, the actually blocking scheme, the running backs being banged up all year, or the fact that the passing, actually worked to move the sticks, I can't say, it may be a combination of all the above.

However, that said, I have to believe that we'll be running the ball often this year, I don't see us trailing in too many games, so we should have leads, and be able to kill the clock by running, running, running, passing, running, running, running, running, running, passing, in the later parts of games this year.

Also, with Parker Healthy, Moore still on the Roster, Mendenhall Healthy and now, The Tank, I see us getting a lot more production out of our running game.

Plus we still have 2 Super Bowl MVPs at the WR Spot, a young tall guy in sweed, a vet in McDonald and speed demon in Wallace, I see our passing game actually being Better this year.

I see a huge production in our future out of the offense, the kind we haven't seen in a long time. Both with Runs and Passes. A Nice Balanced attack that puts up lots of points.

yes my friends...BA isn't the "greatest" but he's getting the job done.

I GOT A FEELING!

That was my arguement for him....if he didn't get creative against some of the defenses we were playing, then we lose more. The defense helped him, sure, but that O line as well as Parker's nagging injury really handicapped the playcalling last year, and they still won a SB.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 12:18 PM
Maybe not at wideout, but I don't think the bar has been set that high in the return game. Improved? Yes, but not outstanding.

!
Yeah, but the only thing is that Wallace is more of a straight line speed type guy, which is great as a kick returner, but not a punt returner. He is more of a Will Blackwell or Lee Mays guy in the return game.

I think we will see Shaun McDonald as the #4 WR, who can return kicks and punts active on gameday. I also think we might see Keiwan Ratliff or Joe Burnett as the gameday punt returner. I dont expect much from Wallace this year other than wearing sweatpants on the sidelines.

thumper
05-12-2009, 12:26 PM
I don't like some of the calls he makes in certain situations but you can't argue the final product!

Actually, you can. Our O underperforms. We are lucky to win a lot of games that we could win comfortably if our O wasn't so lame. Basically, they fart around most games and then turn to Ben to win it. If they didn't waste so many downs on single back runs up the middle with Willie, games could be well in hand instead of nail biters.

Hammer67
05-12-2009, 12:29 PM
Actually, you can. Our O underperforms. We are lucky to win a lot of games that we could win comfortably if our O wasn't so lame. Basically, they fart around most games and then turn to Ben to win it. If they didn't waste so many downs on single back runs up the middle with Willie, games could be well in hand instead of nail biters.


Lame? Not quite. The Lions and the Chiefs were lame. :thumbsup:

mmalone
05-12-2009, 12:30 PM
i still see a lot of bruce plays. where the receivers are running too far downfield and no has short outlets for ben in the play, then ben has to stand in there and wait for the play to unfold. of course adding pressure to the OL and Ben.

when a Manning (Colts), or brady drops back. they have a counter blitz outlet off the end. a quick slant over the middle. they have a lot of boom boom plays. we dont, but we should...

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 02:47 PM
Arians offense is predicated upon deep crosses, plays that take a little longer to develop, but end up confusing the DB's. That can be a fatally flawed philosophy if you have a less-than-perfect OL. Ben improvises which helps (and sometimes harms). Arians adjusts, but it's hard to change an offense in mid-season.

I also don't think as an OC you can say to yourself "Well, this OL probably sucks so I better only put 3 step drops and run plays in the playbook". You have to assume that your OL can do it's job, and you adjust accordingly.

I do expect them to run a LOT more. The interior line should be upgraded if Urbik cracks the lineup as far as run blocking is concerned. Mendenhall is a bit bigger than Parker. If Summers makes the team we have a big back who can pound. We can impose our will a little more this season, which will also make some of Arians creativity a little more creative if we can truly develop the power run game.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 02:55 PM
I do expect them to run a LOT more. The interior line should be upgraded if Urbik cracks the lineup as far as run blocking is concerned. Mendenhall is a bit bigger than Parker. If Summers makes the team we have a big back who can pound. We can impose our will a little more this season, which will also make some of Arians creativity a little more creative if we can truly develop the power run game.

I really dont expect them to run a lot more. BA's offensive philosophy is more of "you can gain 4 yards by passing just as easily as running". I think he likes to mix up his run and pass well, but likes to run out of that single back set and use his TE-WR's more.

I think Shaun McDonald and Limas Sweed will factor more into his offensive scheme. Maybe now he might have the guys to run out of 3 and 4 WR sets, or throw quick passes against a spread out defense.?

Hammer67
05-12-2009, 02:55 PM
Also, let's not forget that Ben has had more of a say as to what is in the playbook and what gets called. Take that for what it's worth, but if your QB is comfortable inthe system, you have to like it.

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 03:09 PM
Tomlin is more conservative than even Cowher. If they CAN run more, he'll dictate that they DO run more.

Play dominant defense.
Play good ST.
Run the ball.

It's Cowher/Tressel/Tomlin ball...

Steelman16
05-12-2009, 03:15 PM
Tomlin is more conservative than even Cowher. If they CAN run more, he'll dictate that they DO run more.

Play dominant defense.
Play good ST.
Run the ball.

It's Cowher/Tressel/Tomlin ball...

Tomlin is conservative? :noidea:

What's wrong with running the ball if you CAN actually do it? All it would do is lessen the amount of hits Big Ben has to take every game.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 03:24 PM
Tomlin is more conservative than even Cowher. If they CAN run more, he'll dictate that they DO run more.
...

I dont know. I take Tomlin as a guy that likes to play strong defense and run the ball like you do, but I think he views his coaches as teachers, professionals and empowers them to do their jobs.

I think Tomlin will say they want to run the football, but gives Arians the space to do what he wants. During the course of a game, BA goes with the flow of the game and calls what he calls... I think the Cowher regime was pretty adamant about running, while the current regime would rather gain 4 yards any way they can. Including short passes to slot receivers, RB's, FB's, TE's.

Hines0wnz
05-12-2009, 03:24 PM
Offensive efficiency begins with the QB-OC relationship. Ben and Bruce get along well enough that Ben has the freedom to change a play which allows the evaluation of the situation for each down. If Tomlin didnt trust in them, he would have made a change. Yes, the debate is there that a SB win gains you job security but improvements can always be made. However, this team does not need to score 37 points a game to win when your D kicks the crap out of every team. Right Patsies? :chuckle: I highly doubt this team will have the same hangover it appeared to have coming off the SB XL win (mainly because Ben will be healthy) but instead will get everyone's best game as expected. BA frustrates me too but not every play by every team is successful either so as long as his plays arent costing Ws then I cannot have much a of a problem with him.

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 03:38 PM
They ran the ball 469 times in Cowher's last year.

They ran the ball 511 in Tomlin's first.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 03:55 PM
They ran the ball 469 times in Cowher's last year.

They ran the ball 511 in Tomlin's first.

Why do you have to go and only show the stats that are convenient for your point of view?? Comparing Cowhers final season (8-8) where they were behind a lot and threw more, to a season where Tomlin/Arians offense ran the most of his tenure does nothing for objective discussion.

If we look at the past 4 seasons, 2 of which the Steelers won a Super Bowl :banana: , we can see that there really is a mix of stats.

2005- under Cowher , 549 rushing att
2006- under Cowher, 469 rushing att
2007- under Tomlin, 511 rushing att
2008- under Tomlin, 460 rushing att

So, 2005 the rushing game is dominant and SBXL. 2006, team plays from behind a lot and throws more than they run. 2007, Tomlin is the new guy and establishes the run and good D. 2008, injuries, poor running game lead to passing more to gain yards.

You may be right that Tomlin and Arians try to establish the run more with a stable line and better health of the RB's this season. I just hope they find a way to convert short yardage somehow.

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 03:59 PM
Yeah, DAMN me for showing stats!

This will be the "rubber match" year for Tomlin.

My gut tells me he runs more.

stillers4me
05-12-2009, 04:36 PM
They ran the ball 469 times in Cowher's last year.

They ran the ball 511 in Tomlin's first.

They can run the ball 1000 times, but it doesn't mean they are getting anywhere by doing it. :coffee:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 04:40 PM
Yeah, DAMN me for showing stats!

This will be the "rubber match" year for Tomlin.

My gut tells me he runs more.

I just wondered why you showed one of Cowhers worst years instead of one where he ran a lot, or maybe both super bowl winning years. After looking at the stats, I think you may be right that with line health Tomlin/Arians may revert to running more.

I just think if you compare our last 2 coordinators....Whiz valued a power running game to setup the pass, while BA likes to spread the field and run out of that, or pass out of it. Tomlin lets BA call what he wants and I think his flow of the game leads to more passing than Cowherball or Tresselball.

Dino 6 Rings
05-12-2009, 04:52 PM
I just think we had a totally new Oline and that really played a part in our running game last season. Think about how different Our Oline is from the 05 season, plus Parker was hurt, Russell was stuffed as much as he gained yards, Moore had great games mostly because the Defense wasn't honoring the Running game when he was in and our Rookie was hurt.

The fact we ran at all and still won the Super Bowl, is just amazing.

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 04:53 PM
I don't like some of the calls he makes in certain situations but you can't argue the final product!

Sure you can. There's alot of room for improvement on offense, alot of room. If it wasn't for Roethlisberger's otherworldy improvisation skills they lose at least 3 more games last year. Case in point, the AFC Championship game. It should've never gotten as close as it did.

And I wonder why no team in the league has shown interest in attaining Arians' services considering he's the offensive coordinator of a Super Bowl champion and all. Actually I know why.. Because he's terrible at his job.

Dino 6 Rings
05-12-2009, 05:02 PM
Sure you can. There's alot of room for improvement on offense, alot of room. If it wasn't for Roethlisberger's otherworldy improvisation skills they lose at least 3 more games last year. Case in point, the AFC Championship game. It should've never gotten as close as it did.

And I wonder why no team in the league has shown interest in attaining Arians' services considering he's the offensive coordinator of a Super Bowl champion and all. Actually I know why.. Because he's terrible at his job.

AFC Championship game against the Ravens who are as good at stopping the run as we are. Recognize the competition we played against as well.

Texans 183 yards rushing
Browns 117 yards rushing
Eagles 33 yards
Ravens 69 yard
Jaquars 129 yards
Bengals 125 yards
Giants 95 yards
Redskins 64 yards
Colts 55 yards
Chargers 124 yards
Bengals 121 yards
Patriots 161 yards
Cowboys 70 yards
Ravens 91 yards
Titans 73 yards
Browns 176 yards
Chargers 165 yards
Ravens 52 yards
Cardinals 58 yards

Even with a couple crappy Yard games, like the Eagles and Colts, we still averaged 105.6 yards per game rushing.

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 05:09 PM
AFC Championship game against the Ravens who are as good at stopping the run as we are. Recognize the competition we played against as well.

Texans 183 yards rushing
Browns 117 yards rushing
Eagles 33 yards
Ravens 69 yard
Jaquars 129 yards
Bengals 125 yards
Giants 95 yards
Redskins 64 yards
Colts 55 yards
Chargers 124 yards
Bengals 121 yards
Patriots 161 yards
Cowboys 70 yards
Ravens 91 yards
Titans 73 yards
Browns 176 yards
Chargers 165 yards
Ravens 52 yards
Cardinals 58 yards

Even with a couple crappy Yard games, like the Eagles and Colts, we still averaged 105.6 yards per game rushing.

This post pretty much covers that:

i still see a lot of bruce plays. where the receivers are running too far downfield and no has short outlets for ben in the play, then ben has to stand in there and wait for the play to unfold. of course adding pressure to the OL and Ben.

when a Manning (Colts), or brady drops back. they have a counter blitz outlet off the end. a quick slant over the middle. they have a lot of boom boom plays. we dont, but we should...

And why wait till the end of the game to run the no-huddle? (most effective part of their offense in 08) Perplexing considering, as you just said, their opponent. And I remember there not being many outside runs called for Willie against an aged, not particularly speedy Ravens front 7 who hadn't had a bye in like 2 years & who just came off a brutal win over the Titans. And if memory serves me correct again I remember Chris Johnson carving them up all day on the edges. But instead of attacking a weakness with one of the fastest backs in the world let's just run right into the strength of their team. Makes sense to me.

T.Richardson
05-12-2009, 05:15 PM
ugh...this discussion again?

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 05:20 PM
Hey man, it's not like he's gone anywhere. It's something we'll have to deal with in 09.

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 05:25 PM
Yeah, and that's a damned good point right there.

What does the 6 time Super Bowl winning Steelers FO know about hiring OC's?

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 05:30 PM
Yeah, and that's a damned good point right there.

What does the 6 time Super Bowl winning Steelers FO know about hiring OC's?

And that makes Arians a good offensive coordinator how again?:laughing:

fansince'76
05-12-2009, 05:45 PM
And I wonder why no team in the league has shown interest in attaining Arians' services considering he's the offensive coordinator of a Super Bowl champion and all. Actually I know why.. Because he's terrible at his job.

Haven't seen anyone try to talk to LeBeau either, and he's the hands-down best in the league at his job. I'm sure someone with deeper pockets than the Rooneys could've stolen him away by now, if external job offers are the litmus test of the true worth of a coordinator.

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 05:47 PM
Haven't seen anyone try to talk to LeBeau either, and he's the hands-down best in the league at his job. I'm sure someone with deeper pockets than the Rooneys could've stolen him away by now, if external job offers are the litmus test of the true worth of a coordinator.

First off, even subtely hinting at Arians being on the same stratosphere as Lebeau is pure insanity. And considering his relationship with his players, where he's at in both his career & age (the man will be 72 in september, huge, huge factor) he has no desire to uproot himself. (as he's expressed publicly & considering that's public knowledge i'm sure the rest of the league is aware of this, did i mention his age?)

But that's neither here nor there. Arians did a terrible job last season. To say otherwise is wrong.

fansince'76
05-12-2009, 05:50 PM
Come again?:laughing:

Fixed it, but it should've been obvious what I meant anyway.

fansince'76
05-12-2009, 05:57 PM
Sure you can. There's alot of room for improvement on offense, alot of room. If it wasn't for Roethlisberger's otherworldy improvisation skills they lose at least 3 more games last year. Case in point, the AFC Championship game. It should've never gotten as close as it did.

So Sweed dropping a sure TD pass which would have effectively put that game away before halftime, and then, to add insult to injury, pulling the bonehead "fake injury" move that burned our final timeout and along with it, a chance to kick a FG to extend the lead was all Arians' fault?

T.Richardson
05-12-2009, 06:00 PM
So Sweed dropping a sure TD pass which would have effectively put that game away before halftime was Arians' fault?

yep.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-12-2009, 06:03 PM
I love it. The 6th Super Bowl victory has already been forgotten and the spoiled Steeler fans have already started to look for ways to try and tarnish it.

Gather round boys and girls......I wanna explain something :chair:

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 06:06 PM
And that makes Arians a good offensive coordinator how again?:laughing:

Did they fire him?

Do you know more than they do?

There seem to be 31 other teams who are less successful then the Steelers, yet we seem to have a hundred better GM's right here on SF? Gosh, maybe the Browns or Bungals or Rats should just hire one of you genius' to lead them to the promised land.

Laughably absurd.

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 06:06 PM
So Sweed dropping a sure TD pass which would have effectively put that game away before halftime was Arians' fault?

Er, no. But then again, if Polamalu didn't return that pick for a td (not just get a pick, but score) I'm not so sure they would've won. That whole second half was one of the most inept offensive displays I've ever seen. (especially from a play-calling standpoint) Right up there with their 08 games against the Eagles & Cowboys.

fansince'76
05-12-2009, 06:09 PM
First off, even subtely hinting at Arians being on the same stratosphere as Lebeau is pure insanity. And considering his relationship with his players, where he's at in both his career & age (the man will be 72 in september, huge, huge factor) he has no desire to uproot himself. (as he's expressed publicly & considering that's public knowledge i'm sure the rest of the league is aware of this, did i mention his age?)

But that's neither here nor there. Arians did a terrible job last season. To say otherwise is wrong.

And Arians is 57, which is by no means young. I'm not an Arians cheerleader - I honestly don't care if he stays or goes, but blaming all the offensive problems on him and him alone is wrong also.

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 06:09 PM
Did they fire him?

Do you know more than they do?

No, but I'm confident I know more than you do.

There seem to be 31 other teams who are less successful then the Steelers, yet we seem to have a hundred better GM's right here on SF? Gosh, maybe the Browns or Bungals or Rats should just hire one of you genius' to lead them to the promised land.

Laughably absurd.

So you're one of those fans who don't have the ability to be objective & thinks anything & everything is perfect about their team. It's cliche..

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 06:10 PM
And Arians is 57, which is by no means young. I'm not an Arians cheerleader - I honestly don't care if he stays or goes, but blaming all the offensive problems on him and him alone is wrong also.

I have not once blamed all of their offensive problems on him. But he's sure as shit the poster child. Actually, he and Willie Colon are the poster children.

fansince'76
05-12-2009, 06:11 PM
So you're one of those fans who don't have the ability to be objective & thinks anything & everything is perfect about their team. It's cliche..

And bitching and moaning about every aspect of a team that just won the SB is just as cliche.

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 06:13 PM
And bitching and moaning about every aspect of a team that just won the SB is just as cliche.

I've bitched about the defense, every coach besides Arians, Ben, the receivers, Jeff Reed? Ok...

fansince'76
05-12-2009, 06:13 PM
I have not once blamed all of their offensive problems on him. But he's sure as shit the poster child. Actually, he and Willie Colon are the poster children.

Makes sense - it was all Mahan's fault last offseason.

fansince'76
05-12-2009, 06:15 PM
Er, no. But then again, if Polamalu didn't return that pick for a td (not just get a pick, but score) I'm not so sure they would've won. That whole second half was one of the most inept offensive displays I've ever seen. (especially from a play-calling standpoint) Right up there with their 08 games against the Eagles & Cowboys.

Put in your resume, then. I'm sure you've drawn up some really neato-weato-plays in Madden that work just killer on the XBOX, huh?

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 06:19 PM
I'm glad I found yet ANOTHER guy who knows more than me about football, but, strangely, DISAGREES with the Steelers FO, who coincidentally, I share the view of...

Whatever.

Carry on.

mmalone
05-12-2009, 06:19 PM
The frustrating thing about arians is the plays are easy to read. not much deception in them. the steelers use to few counter blitz plays, moore is usually the only back to make those counter blitz plays. we had a great series the first quarter in the SB. watch it again, a lot of deception in the plays.. but that ended quickly again in the 3rd qtr..

then we go into the normal series of 1st, 2nd downs we run up the middle , ben has 3rd and 8 and he gets hit or the play dies and we punt... this senario happened all year and it was frustrating.

when ben goes no huddle and play action. everything seems smooth and quicker, ben is usually standing after most of those no huddle plays.

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 06:21 PM
Makes sense - it was all Mahan's fault last offseason.

If I blamed all of their woes on one PLAYER you'd have a leg to stand on. As it is...

But then again, I just made a comment that Arians and Colon are the poster children for the offensive struggles.I could've brought up Stapleton's proclivity to get manhandled or the line as a whole being overwhelmed on numerous occasions (part of that blame is on arians) or the abyssmal Mitch Berger. I really didn't think I had to though.

HometownGal
05-12-2009, 06:21 PM
And bitching and moaning about every aspect of a team that just won the SB is just as cliche.

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

It's truly sad that some of these goobers have nothing better to do than to nitpick at our OC who obviously played a part in the Steelers successes last season. :doh: :banging: It isn't even freakin' football season yet and the boo bird brigade is rapidly assembling. :rolleyes:

OneForTheToe
05-12-2009, 06:24 PM
What does Coach Tomlin See in Mr Arians?


He likes Coordinators who cant do their job. Quarterbacks who hold the ball too long. Running backs who are too small. And working for Owners who are too cheap ......






















Also, winning Super Bowls.:wave:

Cheppy
05-12-2009, 06:24 PM
Put in your resume, then. I'm sure you've drawn up some really neato-weato-plays in Madden that work just killer on the XBOX, huh?

Don't own a video game system, sorry. So you're still saying he did a good job last season? Rich...

I'm glad I found yet ANOTHER guy who knows more than me about football, but, strangely, DISAGREES with the Steelers FO, who coincidentally, I share the view of...

Whatever.

Carry on.

You think Arians is a good coordinator, i.e., I automatically know more than you do. But hey, he's on the Steelers, he's great no matter what! Wooo!

Slanted August
05-12-2009, 06:27 PM
Wow,

I only got to page three put I want to say that I am not here to fire everybody up and stir things up.

Preacher, I want to make myself clear as I stated in my original opening thread that I know that I am only a fan that never played football on any organized level. Maybe I can be viewed as not having a life because the Steelers are a big part of my life. Crap, I would rather have dinner with Tomlin than any other political, entertainment, etc figure that is out there just to talk Steeler football or football in general.

Here is one small example where a fan may question the OC (I am not trying to pick a fight but would love to see an opposing arguement that would make me a better fan of the game) When you look at that Philly game we on offense had no answer whatsoever for those blitz packages desgned by Jim Johnson ( a defensive scheme that he has used for years so its not like the offense would never have seen this on film).

I have seen detailed analysis of this game by Steeler fans showing video clips of the communication breakdown of the Oline. It would be one thing if a guard, etc got beat by his man but the zone blocking in that game became a complete debacle.

OK, directly you can say Zierlein did not have them prepared but the OC could not adjust. Please tell me that I am wrong so I can try to learn what is the real problem.

I simply believe you need to determine the root cause before you can determine the corrective action. If Ariens is an effective OC then what do you believe is the real problem? In my opening thread I am even asking if it is more personnel than OC strategy.

I guess I need to do an Ariens thread search because there is obvioussly a lot of history on this topic on this board.

fansince'76
05-12-2009, 06:29 PM
But hey, he's on the Steelers, he's great no matter what! Wooo!

If we don't win 50-0 every flipping week, and go 19-0 every fricking year, (fill in the blank) SUCKS! :coffee:

HometownGal
05-12-2009, 06:29 PM
OK - I think this thread has run its course (for the hundredth time).

Arians sucks.

No he doesn't.

Yes he does.

No he doesn't.

You suck.

No I don't.

Yes you do.

Yada, yada, yada, yada.