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View Full Version : "Pastor" Rick Warren prayed to Isa - the "Jesus" of the Quran at Obama's inauguration


BrandonCarr39
05-12-2009, 11:58 AM
ILeKBexM4OI&eurl

theplatypus
05-12-2009, 04:29 PM
oh lord

revefsreleets
05-12-2009, 04:46 PM
He's a PC liberal. Why does this surprise anyone?

Preacher
05-12-2009, 06:54 PM
What a joke.

He used the name that is attached to the historical figure. Iesus, the greek name, Isa, the arabic name, and Jesus, the english name.

Someone is REALLY stretching. . .

Dino 6 Rings
05-13-2009, 12:01 PM
So then this begs the question, directed at Preacher, since its going to be a religious one...

Is Jehovah the same God as Allah just with a different way of saying the name?

Allah Akbar means "Allah (God) is Greatest" Not that Allah is Great. It clearly states that Allah is greatest, so then, using the Book of Islam's name for Jesus, is a direct recognition of Allah as either an equal god as Jehovah or is actually the greatest god, or is just Jehovah under a different name.

How do you interpret that?

Is Islam's belief that Jesus was nothing more than a prophet, and that Mohammad was the greatest and last of all the prophets, ok with you? Does it validate their point of view by having a Christian Preacher recognize their interpretation of the Christian Religion as false? Because that's what Islam does. It doesn't recognize Christ as the Son of God, thereby, it considers Christians False. Or as they say, Infidels.

Preacher
05-13-2009, 02:15 PM
Great questions.

What is happening, is a confusion between language and religious names of God.

Allah is ONLY the word, GOD in Arabic. However, because of the Hegemony of Islam in Arabic speaking countries, it is directly associated with the Islamic ideas about God. IT is much the same as what an American would think about "God" 3 hundred years ago. Whether it was Diest or Theist, it was still based on the Christian understanding of God.

It is the same with the name Jesus. It simply the WAY which Arabic translates the name into Arabic. THen, just like GOD, the religion itself attaches everything to it.

We as pastors are taught to be cross-cultural, to not import Americanism with Christianity, as it is ONLY Christianity that should transfer into a new culture (a goal, not ever truly achieved, yet a goal.

Furthermore, Muslims know what Christians believe about Jesus. They understand the doctrine of the Trinity better than many Christians do. They understand we believe Jesus is God better than some Christians. So when a Christian pastor says what he says, no, there is no confusion there. It is the same as translating the name Elisha into Al-Yasa...

So when a Christian talks about Allah or talks about Isa, he or she is talking about the CHristian God in the Arabic language.

tony hipchest
05-13-2009, 02:20 PM
:shout:- PANIC!!!

(good post preacher)

imagine if bill richadson were elected. he woulda prayed to Heyzoos. (Hey Zeus up in heaven????... :horror: )

Preacher
05-13-2009, 02:24 PM
:shout:- PANIC!!!

(good post preacher)

imagine if bill richadson were elected. he woulda prayed to Heyzoos. (Hey Zeus up in heaven????... :horror: )

Tony... Please let this one go. It isn't about Obama. IT is about Rick Warren. There is an entire culture of dislike and hatred for him. That is what the video was made from.

tony hipchest
05-13-2009, 02:27 PM
no, it is about obama. its about him being muslim, being sworn in w/ his hand on the koran, not wearing a flag lapel pin, or not having a flag on his campaign plane :blah:

its typical panic bs propoganda. (granted, i think and hope newmans purpose of posting was to show the absurdity of it all)

Preacher
05-13-2009, 03:37 PM
no, it is about obama. its about him being muslim, being sworn in w/ his hand on the koran, not wearing a flag lapel pin, or not having a flag on his campaign plane :blah:

its typical panic bs propoganda. (granted, i think and hope newmans purpose of posting was to show the absurdity of it all)

Tony. Sorry, you are out of your depth on this one.

it has NOTHING to do with Obama. There is a vast movement against Rick Warren claiming that he has left the Gospel. I know you have taken upon your self to champion Obama. But this battle is not yours. Go Google Rick Warren critics and see what I am talking about.

Dino 6 Rings
05-13-2009, 04:51 PM
I actually didn't see the Video cause I can't see them at work so I was just going by the post and what I read about it.

So Preacher, you think Allah is just the Arabic Translation for the Word God and not the name of a Different God the way Zues or Odin or Buddah would be considered a different entity than Jehovah?

Preacher
05-13-2009, 05:51 PM
I actually didn't see the Video cause I can't see them at work so I was just going by the post and what I read about it.

So Preacher, you think Allah is just the Arabic Translation for the Word God and not the name of a Different God the way Zues or Odin or Buddah would be considered a different entity than Jehovah?

The proper answer to every theological question is "yes".... and "no.'

So yes, that is correct.

However, when talking to an individual, you have to be careful, because just like in english, people will confuse the two and think of Allah as ONLY Muslim.

That is the mistake the guy is making in the video as well.

tony hipchest
05-13-2009, 06:11 PM
Tony. Sorry, you are out of your depth on this one.

it has NOTHING to do with Obama. There is a vast movement against Rick Warren claiming that he has left the Gospel. I know you have taken upon your self to champion Obama. But this battle is not yours. Go Google Rick Warren critics and see what I am talking about.
oh, ok. im not familiar with warren or his story. the 1st i ever heard of him was when he did the inaguration and havent heard anything of him since.

its natural to jump to conclusions based on some of the things posted here. and just like obamas association with bill ayers was used to link him to terrorism, and his association with jeremiah wright was used to link him with racism, it seeemed like this was being used to link him to islam.

not knowing the backdrop, it just seemed to insinuate obama asked him to throw in the arabic name for Jesus.

so i gather you dont believe warren has left the flock and the creator of the video is really reaching to smear him?

Dino 6 Rings
05-14-2009, 08:41 AM
The proper answer to every theological question is "yes".... and "no.'

So yes, that is correct.

However, when talking to an individual, you have to be careful, because just like in english, people will confuse the two and think of Allah as ONLY Muslim.

That is the mistake the guy is making in the video as well.

Ok. Thanks for your view.

I tend to believe that Allah is Not the same Diety as Jehovah. I believe Allah is something else. Just as Ra was not Jehovah, and Zues was not Jehovah, I believe Allah is Not Jehovah. (Yahweh). I understand it is common belief to associate that Allah is in fact just the arabic translation for God, but I don't believe its the Same God that the Jews pray to and that the Christians believe sent his only Son to earth to forgive us our sins.

Dino 6 Rings
05-14-2009, 08:44 AM
oh, ok. im not familiar with warren or his story. the 1st i ever heard of him was when he did the inaguration and havent heard anything of him since.

its natural to jump to conclusions based on some of the things posted here. and just like obamas association with bill ayers was used to link him to terrorism, and his association with jeremiah wright was used to link him with racism, it seeemed like this was being used to link him to islam.

not knowing the backdrop, it just seemed to insinuate obama asked him to throw in the arabic name for Jesus.

so i gather you dont believe warren has left the flock and the creator of the video is really reaching to smear him?

Tony, I see your point, that this is nothing more than a way for some to associate B.O. with Islam, as was tried before. However, some could see things like this as a way to back up B.O.'s comment that the US is no longer a "Christian nation". I think that statement has really upset some folks and they aren't going to forgive him for it.

Preacher
05-14-2009, 04:34 PM
oh, ok. im not familiar with warren or his story. the 1st i ever heard of him was when he did the inaguration and havent heard anything of him since.

its natural to jump to conclusions based on some of the things posted here. and just like obamas association with bill ayers was used to link him to terrorism, and his association with jeremiah wright was used to link him with racism, it seeemed like this was being used to link him to islam.

not knowing the backdrop, it just seemed to insinuate obama asked him to throw in the arabic name for Jesus.

so i gather you dont believe warren has left the flock and the creator of the video is really reaching to smear him?

No prob Tony.

And yeah, there are those who are SO ADAMANT about right belief that Jesus couldn't even be their pastor. Don't get me wrong, I think Orthodoxy is DANG important. But to the extant some take it, well, it is a little ridiculous.

Rick Warren threatens cultural fundamentalism because he chooses to break out of traditional church mentality and is not the typical church pastor. Believe it or not, there are a LOT of things I disagree with Rick Warren on. However, whoever put this video together is reaching WAY too far and in the end, is showing his own linguistic ignorance.

Preacher
05-14-2009, 04:57 PM
Ok. Thanks for your view.

I tend to believe that Allah is Not the same Diety as Jehovah. I believe Allah is something else. Just as Ra was not Jehovah, and Zues was not Jehovah, I believe Allah is Not Jehovah. (Yahweh). I understand it is common belief to associate that Allah is in fact just the arabic translation for God, but I don't believe its the Same God that the Jews pray to and that the Christians believe sent his only Son to earth to forgive us our sins.

Actually, you and I are in complete agreement, though it doesn't look like it. Let me explain.

Ra and Zeus were not names for the single, creator God of heaven and earth. They were names of specific diety's of Egypt and Greece. We would say they thought Zeus was A God. They thought Ra was A God. We would NEVER say that they were the SAME God as YHWH. Matter of fact, YHWH battled the gods of ancient egypt in the plague narrative.

The difference comes with Islam, in the fact that Allah IS AND IS NOT the proper name of their diety. Allah is the general word for ANYONES diety in some cases, and SPECIFICALLY ISLAM'S DIETY in others...

So, For the Christians, an some muslims would say "Christians believe YHWH is Allah."

Greeks believe "Zeus in an Allah"

Egyptians beleived "Ra was an Allah."


However, other Muslims, specifically arabic ones (and I think I confused this earlier, I apologize), use ALLAH as a Proper name and Al-illah (or some rendition of that) as the general name of God.

So when I say that Allah is the same as God, I am saying that the way you translate the general word God in English into say, Turkish, is by saying the word, Allah. But when you translate it into Arabic, you say, Al-ilah, for some people. Others may not recognize that distinction.

However, specifically with Islam, recognize that just like Christianity and Judiasm, they recognize YHWH. What they have done, is redefined His message. That is why the 3 western religions are so distinctive, because they all come from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They all recognize King David and the prophets too.

In essence, IMO, when a Hindhu faces GOD, they will be very suprised that it is not Vishnu. When a Muslim faces God, they won't be surprised at WHO He is, but WILL be surprised at TRUTH about Him.

does that make sense? I don't want to leave you with any idea that I am a universalist in any sense of the word. I just also want to be very fair with both the language AND the history of different beleif systems.