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View Full Version : Will Tony Hills ever get involved


truesteelerfan
05-14-2009, 01:37 PM
This article is a few months old, but I was curious about our OL with the potential of losing Max next year, and the uncertainty of if Colon will be able to ever be the elite Tackle we need him to be.

This article explains to me why we drafted him, yet all I've heard until now was that he has been a disappointment for us. Does anybody know why that impression has been given? What has he done wrong?

I love his potential, obviously the coaches have something in mind for our future at the tackle position (RIGHT???) since Colon, Starks, Essex, etc all have short deals-is the future HIlls?

:hunch:


Iíll tell you one thing Ė heís really big. When I went down to work him out, and Iíve seen him, and watched him on tape, I really was surprised at how big he was. He has long arms. As a former tight end, heís a pretty good athlete. His strength probably needs to develop a little bit, but he is athletic, heís big, and if you have those two things thatís a good start.


He's big. At least in the areas that matter most for a T (6'6", long enough arms) rather than just a sheer big weight number like the shorter (6'3") more stumpy Colon. He was fairly raw and hadn't had much regular contact last camp in quite some time. Give him a year with the Steelers strength and conditioning coach and let's see what happens to a 24 year old 'underdeveloped' 300 pounder.Strength may be an issue for the time being and more than likely still in 2009, but the unteachable gifts like long arms and a huge frame are there. Period.

He was well on his way to being a 1st or 2nd round draft pick. It's accurate that scouts dinged him for his strength as a right tackle and for his foot speed as a left tackle. But that shouldn't fool you from the fact that talent wise, he was rated near the top of his class as a junior and was named a 1st Team All American despite missing the final few games of the 2006 season.

Bottom line is we won't know until we see him back in pads going up against Deebo and Wood in the spring and summer. No point in speculating endlessly until we hear who the Steelers have selected with their draft picks come April. Instead, let me just ask some basic questions:

1) How easy or hard is it to fall from a Day 1 pick in the National Football League to a 4th or 5th rounder? I'll answer. Very easy. The trend I've been seeing in the last couple of years is teams going the Bill Parcells route - i.e. building from the inside out; from offensive line out to the perimeter. Teams have been reaching BIGtime for offensive linemen in Round 1 as a result of strict adherence to this mindset.

Once more. Eight tackles in Round 1 last year? Are you freakin' kidding me?

Then, the T position seems to get abandoned for a round or two as teams decide that the elite crop is long gone. And as a consequence of all these early picks used on Tackles, there were all these great players from varied positions available in Rounds 2 and 3. Don't believe me? Check out Round 2 and Round 3 of last year's Draft. Notice anything?

Only a small handful of Tackles taken between pick #26 and #130 in the fourth round when Hills finally came off the board.

2) So given that there's this very hard to explain gap between when pick #26 and the next Tackle was taken, is it possible that the 'talent' gap between Duane Brown, Sam Baker, Jeff Otah et al is not nearly as big as their divergent draft statuses might suggest?

3) And is it possible that some of that separation in the first place is an artificial byproduct of NFL teams trying to minimize a dynamic volatile variable like injury concerns in an already unscientific and unformulaic endeavor like the NFL draft?

4) Do the Rooneys and the Steelers army of scouts feast on finding value where others do not?

5) Is Dan Rooney, Kevin Colbert and the other top personnel brass of the organization short sighted?

6) Obviously not so then would it be fair to say that they were 110% aware that Smith, Essex, Starks, and Colon would all be FAs after the 2008 season?

7) Of course. Is is then also possible that Hills got every bit of extra attention that was realistically possible to help him learn the complexities of the game without actually shoving him into the fold on a SB winning team? In other words, was Hills given more attention than say a Trai Essex in preparation for 2009 and beyond perhaps?

To me, the team's decision with regards to Max Starks should tell the story. Free Agency begins on February 27th. Will we even take our chances and just re-sign him, like I suggested could be the case with Marvel in the earlier paragraphs? Is there any animosity between Starks and the organization after what went down last year? Will Starks be willing to seek middle ground before testing the waters? He did after all get to prove himself much more in 2008 and than in 2007 when he only was inserted into the lineup around the Mud Bowl Game half way or so through the season.

If we do not or if Starks refuses to re-sign, will teams jump out of the gate right away and make an offer to him? Or will interest be minimal like last year? If so, the Steelers will have tougher decisions to make in the Draft. If other teams are smart, they'll hold tight and force the Steelers move. We'll get into all the scenarios soon enough, but there's absolutely everything possible in play with Starks, including even the off chance of him being slapped with the franchise tag, something the organization has stayed away from historically.


Anyway, it's a complicated situation that we'll do our best to sift through from the sidelines. But let it be known that Tony Hills, our 4th round selection from the University of Texas in last year's draft, is my sub-plot of the offseason and my surprise guy for the team if not this coming year, 2010 for sure. Even if it's just some part-time contributions, good and bad, I think he will be a much bigger part of our immediate future in 2009 than one might think. By the way, before I conclude, UT is not kiddy 'project' land for OL talent in the NFL. I could provide a laundry list of guys who have been churned out of that program along the offensive line. And Hills was highly regarded within that accomplished Longhorns fraternity.

If his leg's healed even more this past year and he's ready to go physically (the knee hasn't bothered him one lick since arriving in Pittsburgh), don't be shocked if the Steelers head into 2009 having Hills be a big part of their either their primary or contingency plans along the offensive line.

PS. He's been around Champions for the past year. And Mike Tomlin. He's good

steelreserve
05-14-2009, 01:52 PM
I hope he turns out to be good, or at least able to help. But for some reason, there's almost no information about him ever.

All you hear is an occasional quote like "He's still a longshot and hasn't impressed much" or "He's a long way from ready to play tackle in the NFL." And the quote is always from some vague unnamed "source close to the situation."

So I guess it's just wait and see, because publicly, nobody is saying dick.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-14-2009, 02:59 PM
I said last year in preseason that Hills has all the tools in terms of size and athleticism, but lacked a good kick slide and punch. Even if you watch his college tape, he blocks with his chest and shoulder pads, instead of using his hands and arms.

I belive Tony Hills can be a starter, but would like to see him get some experience at RT before trying to move him to LT. I would have no problem in 2010 seeing Essex, Hills, Colon and a rookie as our OT's, but more than likely there will be some veterans cast off in August after some rookie OT's establish themselves.

I expect to see another 5-6 OT's go in next seasons 1st round. (Okung, Williams, Bulaga, Black, Reynolds) and every year we see 6 blue chip OT's taken, there are always some vets getting released because of it.

tony hipchest
05-14-2009, 03:11 PM
I said last year in preseason that Hills has all the tools in terms of size and athleticism, but lacked a good kick slide and punch. Even if you watch his college tape, he blocks with his chest and shoulder pads, instead of using his hands and arms.

I belive Tony Hills can be a starter, but would like to see him get some experience at RT before trying to move him to LT. I would have no problem in 2010 seeing Essex, Hills, Colon and a rookie as our OT's, but more than likely there will be some veterans cast off in August after some rookie OT's establish themselves.

I expect to see another 5-6 OT's go in next seasons 1st round. (Okung, Williams, Bulaga, Black, Reynolds) and every year we see 6 blue chip OT's taken, there are always some vets getting released because of it.pat and tim have been having bob wiley on regularly leading up to his clinic breaking down all types of protections. today they are gonna break down the slide and punch for the fans.

the other day they broke down all the 5-7 man fronts and who is responsible for who in the different protection schemes (including rb).

really good stuff. i had to sit in the driveway to finish listening.

anyways, hills development will save us millions. if hes got the tools, this is really larry z's opportunity to prove hes up for the task.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-14-2009, 03:19 PM
pat and tim have been having bob wiley on regularly leading up to his clinic breaking down all types of protections. today they are gonna break down the slide and punch for the fans.

the other day they broke down all the 5-7 man fronts and who is responsible for who in the different protection schemes (including rb).

really good stuff. i had to sit in the driveway to finish listening.

anyways, hills development will save us millions. if hes got the tools, this is really larry z's opportunity to prove hes up for the task.

Tony, can you listen for where Bob Wiley is coaching now?? Is he in the CFL, NCAA, NFL? (thought he was in Canada now).

Also, can you listen if Wiley mentions anything about a "post foot" in pass blocking? Its basically an anchor or post that the O lineman establishes to make the rusher go one way.......but an interior lineman almost plays with even weight on both feet. I wonder if Bob thinks the center should have a "post foot"?

I am such a fan of letting Hills get some experience this year, but think it only happens if Colon gets hurt as I doubt Hills will dress on gameday.

pancake
05-14-2009, 03:33 PM
It would be great if Hills developed into a good starting tackle. I think Colon would be a better guard than tackle.

billybob
05-14-2009, 03:50 PM
I think we are not quick to insert someone new into our line , but prefer to bring them along slowly , nurturing them so to speak . Most fans are the only ones to think we need to slam a new guy into the line up . If he was ready , i have no reason to believe they would not have placed him already . Change for the sake of change , and the fans don't like something about our team , is no reason to shake things up . In my opinion , if he was ready , he would have been put into action . That tells me only one thing , he was not ready , bottom line . He has the same chance as anyone else in camp to make his claim to be a starter , and it appears he has not done so .
Coaches coach , players play , and fans speculate , and scrutinize all the decisions the coaches and front office makes . He will have yet another chance in this summers camp to state his case , as will others . The competition will all be there , and the team will make the decision as to who best fits our scheme of things we want to accomplish . We all know what that is ! #7 . If Hills wants a job , and he does not know what it takes to get it by now ,and he does not get it , i would not even care if they sent him packing . As weak as the media , and fans have our line pegged out to be , he must not be all that great if he isn't playing now , right ?:banging:

pancake
05-14-2009, 04:13 PM
I think we are not quick to insert someone new into our line , but prefer to bring them along slowly , nurturing them so to speak . Most fans are the only ones to think we need to slam a new guy into the line up . If he was ready , i have no reason to believe they would not have placed him already . Change for the sake of change , and the fans don't like something about our team , is no reason to shake things up . In my opinion , if he was ready , he would have been put into action . That tells me only one thing , he was not ready , bottom line . He has the same chance as anyone else in camp to make his claim to be a starter , and it appears he has not done so .
Coaches coach , players play , and fans speculate , and scrutinize all the decisions the coaches and front office makes . He will have yet another chance in this summers camp to state his case , as will others . The competition will all be there , and the team will make the decision as to who best fits our scheme of things we want to accomplish . We all know what that is ! #7 . If Hills wants a job , and he does not know what it takes to get it by now ,and he does not get it , i would not even care if they sent him packing . As weak as the media , and fans have our line pegged out to be , he must not be all that great if he isn't playing now , right ?:banging:


I don't think anyone wants him playing if he is not ready. I am hoping he developes into a nice steal... :drink:

billybob
05-14-2009, 05:01 PM
I don't think anyone wants him playing if he is not ready. I am hoping he developes into a nice steal... :drink:

He will have a fair shot to make his dream come true . Being big , and having long arms , or short ones for that matter , has nothing to do with" fitting " the bill as far as the talent our coaches look for . Drive , heart , stamina , ability to come back play after play , showing improvement , and being able to be coached , is what i believe some of the things our staff uses to evaluate a player . Course i am not sure how they do their jobs . I am not one of them . He could only be a one position guy for all i know . I don't have all the answers . I know there is no need to throw him into the fire at this point . Maybe he is in training . This will be his second camp , am i correct ? We will find out how far he progressed , if any , soon enough . I think we ralley around guys that have the ability to be interchangable , at multiple positions . Maybe thats why .

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-14-2009, 05:54 PM
Almost no offensive tackle is going to start as a rookie unless they are:
1. drafted by a lousy team with OT needs
2. an extremely good OT.

Hills being a guy coming off injury that didnt look strong or have good technique wasnt gonna start. He probably will not play much this year either. But, if he progresses well. He has a shot to play an important role in 2010.

slashsteel
05-14-2009, 06:12 PM
I think Hills will be lucky to even make the roster as he will have a fight on his hands. And could get caught up in a numbers squeeze....

billybob
05-14-2009, 06:14 PM
Almost no offensive tackle is going to start as a rookie unless they are:
1. drafted by a lousy team with OT needs
2. an extremely good OT.

Hills being a guy coming off injury that didnt look strong or have good technique wasnt gonna start. He probably will not play much this year either. But, if he progresses well. He has a shot to play an important role in 2010.

Hey Jackson , whats up . You would not be referring to Urbik would you , almost no offensive lineman period , does that apply to guards also ? :coffee:

Davison_K
05-14-2009, 06:37 PM
Almost no offensive tackle is going to start as a rookie...Hey Jackson , whats up . You would not be referring to Urbik would you , almost no offensive lineman period , does that apply to guards also ? :coffee:

Not to jump in here or anything, but I think "Jackson" was quite clear that he was referring to offensive tackles. No where in his entire message did he even mention "offensive lineman period"

Before you try and trap someone make sure you actually read their post?:noidea: I know you are big on keeping the current O-line intact. We haven't had continuity on that line since Hartings retired and its obvious. Whether its the starting 5 for Super Bowl XLIII or a completely different group, I just hope they keep Ben off his ass and the running lanes open. :coffee:

As for the Hills debate, the above article is the first I have read on him probably since he was drafted. I would really like to see him step up and the writer has an interesting theory in his whole drop off between the "elite" tackles and the tackles drafted in the later rounds. I would really like to see a spark or something during the preseason. As of now I feel like he is another one of those "project players" that never panned out.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-14-2009, 06:48 PM
Hey Jackson , whats up . You would not be referring to Urbik would you , almost no offensive lineman period , does that apply to guards also ? :coffee:

Yo BB, I think you already know the answer. IMO, OT is a tougher adjustment because they are left out on islands to handle speed pass rushers. Also, centers have a tough transition as rookies because they normally make all the line calls. Guards have the easiest transition because they basically are just mauling the guys in front of them.

Normally, I would say that Urbik would be a longshot to be a starter, but I think its more like the case being that the Steelers are so thin at guard and Stapleton is not that good.

I think if the Steelers believed Willie Colon could play guard, then Tony Hills would be getting a look at RT this season if he was ready.

Now, if Anthony Collins(RD3) and Carl Nicks (RD4) were drafted like I wanted last year, we would have a starting LT this year that isnt making $8million and a 2nd year guard that us just a mauler at RG. But, we would not have Bruce Davis and Tony Hills.

billybob
05-14-2009, 07:00 PM
If i were to invest into what Tomlin seems to be selling about players being able to be multi - demensional , I might not be as poor as i am . We have some players that seem to be playing out of position , at least according to some . Still the whole staff made it work for the benifit of the entire team . A natural position is not always applicable when injuries occur . I see their reasoning for having someone able to switch on a moments notice . I think it is actually sly on Tomlins part , or whoever started to push this issue .
Hills maybe needs to show a capability to flex , because there may be a need for it down the pike . Colon , Starks , a couple of the guys we resigned , all showed some ability to play out of position . Maybe they were not stellar , but quite managable none the less .
Ben is probably the only one on the team that could get away with playing one position . But i think he would not mind playing a free safety sometimes .

steelreserve
05-14-2009, 07:11 PM
I think Hills will be lucky to even make the roster as he will have a fight on his hands. And could get caught up in a numbers squeeze....

Numbers squeeze? As thin as we are at tackle, I just don't see that happening. I don't think we'd like to have Essex be the only backup tackle or Stapleton the only backup center. Which means that out of Hills/Capizzi/Shipley, whoever doesn't make the active roster has got a good shot at winding up on the practice squad so we can call them up when we need to.

Plus, if we're down to a final decision for one roster spot, we've got about a billion WRs and DBs, so we'd probably just throw away one of those.

billybob
05-14-2009, 07:42 PM
Not to jump in here or anything, but I think "Jackson" was quite clear that he was referring to offensive tackles. No where in his entire message did he even mention "offensive lineman period"

Before you try and trap someone make sure you actually read their post?:noidea: I know you are big on keeping the current O-line intact. We haven't had continuity on that line since Hartings retired and its obvious. Whether its the starting 5 for Super Bowl XLIII or a completely different group, I just hope they keep Ben off his ass and the running lanes open. :coffee:

As for the Hills debate, the above article is the first I have read on him probably since he was drafted. I would really like to see him step up and the writer has an interesting theory in his whole drop off between the "elite" tackles and the tackles drafted in the later rounds. I would really like to see a spark or something during the preseason. As of now I feel like he is another one of those "project players" that never panned out.

I don't believe i have ever had the pleasure to meet you sir , but i did read the post . Where i come from a tackle and a guard are offensive lineman . "period " . Mr. El , knew where i was going , and i can assure you he has enough knowledge to not allow himself to be trapped . Nor was i trying to do so .
Hills , as i stated , has a chance to prove himself in camp , as well as all of the other talent we have coming in . The reason you may not have heard about him is more than likely because he has not shown the progress our coaches desire , up to this point .

billybob
05-14-2009, 07:53 PM
Maybe he is one of the best kept secrets, or busts in the whole Steeler Nation .

billybob
05-14-2009, 09:16 PM
Since Hills does have the potential to be associated with the , God forgive me , "Mach 5 " , i do understand the principle behind the offensive line . Many do not want to recognize what that could represent to a new line , coming off the most meaningful drive , probably in their whole careers . They stayed steady on that drive .
Some want to tear that line to pieces . Our team has changed a lot since 1972 when i first proclaimed them my team . Not one time have i ever seen them make a move because i wanted them to . Course Mr. Art Senior was still around then .
After what this o-line has been through last season , and they are coming back signed , anyone who thinks they will not be in-tact the start of next season , may be on a trip . Somewhere into the twilight zone . With the progression of the AFC north , and the rest of the leaugue , that would be a huge mistake to change . Oh , we will change , i believe that . But not just for the sake of change itself . Tomlin must have had one hell of an interview , and held some of the beliefs that our fore fathers had in mind , to even sit at his desk now . When he steps on the field , you can almost read what he is thinking .
He is not solely in charge of drafting players , he is in charge of picking the right ones to play the right spots . His judgement can not be questioned now .
If you rip a structure apart each time you are not happy , that structure will never be complete . Unless Hills can step up , and be a contribution to our total structure as a team , i can actually see him leaving . It's not my decision , but i can actually see some broken hearts on the rise .
People seem to think you need to be big and bad to do an honorable job , but that is not always the case . Dependable , hard working , willingness to improve , showing improvement , maintaining a level of consistancy , and coming back , and trying even harder the next time .
We also seem to promote a certain level of loyalty toward the Steeler Tradition .
You can't assimulate that !!!!!

billybob
05-14-2009, 10:08 PM
Y a gotta know anywhere there is an o-line thread.................,ole billybob will be there .:rocket:

triphahn
05-14-2009, 10:46 PM
I think the fact that we did little in the draft to supplement our line and the fact that next year we free agents coming up on the line all point to Hills being ready to contribute this season.

Pi Kapp Steeler
05-15-2009, 08:50 AM
I think the fact that we did little in the draft to supplement our line and the fact that next year we free agents coming up on the line all point to Hills being ready to contribute this season.

Ya it is getting down to the wire for these "depths" guys to step up

thumper
05-15-2009, 04:58 PM
Hills stinks. He won't ever do anything. All he had was potential and he hasn't show a tick of improvement. He is weak and soft.

triphahn
05-15-2009, 05:14 PM
Hills stinks. He won't ever do anything. All he had was potential and he hasn't show a tick of improvement. He is weak and soft.

Where are you getting this info?

pancake
05-15-2009, 06:43 PM
Hills stinks. He won't ever do anything. All he had was potential and he hasn't show a tick of improvement. He is weak and soft.

I think the coaches believe different and their opinion counts. :blah:

Galax Steeler
05-16-2009, 05:12 AM
I hope Hills cracks the starting lineup soon. I hope we didn't waste a draft pick on him. If he don't get on the field much this year then he might start getting labeld a bust.

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-16-2009, 06:51 AM
Hills stinks. He won't ever do anything. All he had was potential and he hasn't show a tick of improvement. He is weak and soft.

Please provide some facts to back up this opinion.

billybob
05-16-2009, 09:57 AM
Please provide some facts to back up this opinion.

I would not mind thumping , the thumper .:rocket:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-16-2009, 10:49 AM
Please provide some facts to back up this opinion.

Yeah, I love the fans who write off a rookie 4th round pick after 1 season on the roster. :rofl: By that logic I guess we should have cut a 2nd day pick from Northern Colorado a few years back......huh? :wink:

tony hipchest
05-16-2009, 09:24 PM
Yeah, I love the fans who write off a rookie 4th round pick after 1 season on the roster. :rofl: By that logic I guess we should have cut a 2nd day pick from Northern Colorado a few years back......huh? :wink:damn, our roster would only comprise of ben, faneca, and hampton if we only relied on the rookies who showed something in their 1st year.

i listened to that interview (was interrupted by employees through most of it) but bob wylie coaches with tha saskatchewan roughriders.

they didnt talk at all about the anchor. the bulk of the conversation was about slide protection and the blocking angles the linemen need to take, and how the running backs read off of that to key their assignments.

i wish i could remember, but he did research breaking down all 500 or so sacks in a particular year (i think last or 07) and did a list of the top 5 reasons for giving up sacks.

billybob
05-16-2009, 09:43 PM
If Hills wants a spot , he has got to earn it . I think the reason he did not , is because he was not ready . Really it is quite simple .The current o-line lacks the glitter and style , but fit the blue collar work ethics that have made the Steelers a model for the entire league . I don't know that much about the cat , but i am sure , if he is the material we need , he has a fair shot to prove it . He needs to come big or stay at home !

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-17-2009, 10:48 AM
damn, our roster would only comprise of ben, faneca, and hampton if we only relied on the rookies who showed something in their 1st year.

i listened to that interview (was interrupted by employees through most of it) but bob wylie coaches with tha saskatchewan roughriders.

they didnt talk at all about the anchor. the bulk of the conversation was about slide protection and the blocking angles the linemen need to take, and how the running backs read off of that to key their assignments.

i wish i could remember, but he did research breaking down all 500 or so sacks in a particular year (i think last or 07) and did a list of the top 5 reasons for giving up sacks.

Cool Tony. Thanks!! That top 5 reasons for giving up sacks would be interesting to see, but I am willing to bet that , not moving feet, getting too high(poor base), overextending (lunging), poor punch or hand placement....would be in there. The other might be poor communication where guys get confused on who they have on blitz pickup.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-17-2009, 10:57 AM
.The current o-line lacks the glitter and style , but fit the blue collar work ethics that have made the Steelers a model for the entire league .!

You see Billybob, this is where I disagree. If the entire Steeler O line could be categorized as having a "blue collar work ethic", we would see:

- guys like Max Starks show effort on every play, rather than loaf or coast half the time, or at least spend one of his 5 years to develop a decent kick slide.
-We would also see Kemo work more on his technique, assignments and footwork, rather than just have that "now that was stupid" look on his face after being caught flat footed or other mistakes ...a la Chris Farley in Tommy Boy.

The 2 guys on the O line that most exemplify that blue collar work ethic are Hartwig, who is a solid technician and Colon who hustles his ass off more than anybody else on the O line. They are probably the 2 that get the most blame from the fans though.

These guys need improvement and as much as I hate hacking on the coach, I dont know that Coach Z is getting the most out of them as he can. A good coach can speed up development of a guy and I dont know if that is gonna happen with Hills, but hope so.

thumper
05-17-2009, 12:39 PM
Please provide some facts to back up this opinion.

He showed zero development and hustle the entire season. I don't think he even dressed for a game. The only reason he even made the roster was b.c the front office was smarting from the PR disaster of doing nothing to end Ben getting creamed every week. If they cut Hills, as they should have, the PR hit would have been even worse. Not that it helped all that much as it is.

Word is, he is soft and weak.

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-17-2009, 01:52 PM
He showed zero development and hustle the entire season. I don't think he even dressed for a game. The only reason he even made the roster was b.c the front office was smarting from the PR disaster of doing nothing to end Ben getting creamed every week. If they cut Hills, as they should have, the PR hit would have been even worse. Not that it helped all that much as it is.

Word is, he is soft and weak.

Perhaps you are confused as to the word..."facts"?

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-17-2009, 04:34 PM
Word is, he is soft and weak.
So what you are saying is that you have never seen any Texas games where Tony Hills played. Correct??

Also, I guess you just took somebodys "word " that he is weak and soft. He put up 225lbs 24 times in his pro day workout and spent all last season in the weight room.

I dont know if Tony Hills will ever be a starter for the Steelers, but I am not going to carelessly write him off without ever letting him get to his 2nd training camp because ....."word is" :coffee:

MasterOfPuppets
05-17-2009, 05:11 PM
So what you are saying is that you have never seen any Texas games where Tony Hills played. Correct??

Also, I guess you just took somebodys "word " that he is weak and soft. He put up 225lbs 24 times in his pro day workout and spent all last season in the weight room.

I dont know if Tony Hills will ever be a starter for the Steelers, but I am not going to carelessly write him off without ever letting him get to his 2nd training camp because ....."word is" :coffee: i agree .... i'll take the wait and see approach as far as hills is concerned.. i'm just amazed at the lack of patients for rookies, by the fans ......they tend to forget how polomalu looked lost at the beggining of his carrear...:doh:

thumper
05-18-2009, 05:23 PM
Perhaps you are confused as to the word..."facts"?

Umm, you need to understand what the words "vision" and "insight" mean. Those allow you to be quite further ahead. Ahh, some don't have it.

thumper
05-18-2009, 05:25 PM
i agree .... i'll take the wait and see approach as far as hills is concerned.. i'm just amazed at the lack of patients for rookies, by the fans ......they tend to forget how polomalu looked lost at the beggining of his carrear...:doh:

There's a difference between simple rookie seasons vs. not showing any flashes of ability or motivation whatsoever. Sweed sucked, but he still showed flashes that he could be good (i.e. getting several steps behind the DBs before dropping the ball.)

Hills showed nothing. Weak, unmotivated, sloppy, lazy, etc.

thumper
05-18-2009, 05:28 PM
So what you are saying is that you have never seen any Texas games where Tony Hills played. Correct??

Also, I guess you just took somebodys "word " that he is weak and soft. He put up 225lbs 24 times in his pro day workout and spent all last season in the weight room.

I dont know if Tony Hills will ever be a starter for the Steelers, but I am not going to carelessly write him off without ever letting him get to his 2nd training camp because ....."word is" :coffee:

When "word is" comes from tight sources, it means more than "He benched 225 24 times!"

Anyone over 300 Lbs who can't do 225 over 20 times (who actually plays football) is weaker than a wet piece of toilet paper. Brady Quinn hit 225 as well as Hills and he's a QB.

steelreserve
05-18-2009, 05:40 PM
Hills showed nothing. Weak, unmotivated, sloppy, lazy, etc.

True, he showed nothing, as in there was nothing to judge him by. I don't get how he could "show" any of those things without being on the field.

I guess Dixon sucks because he didn't beat out Big Ben last year. And Davis sucks because he didn't beat out Harrison. And Mundy sucks because he couldn't beat out Polamalu. And Mendenhall sucks because he got injured.

Come to think of it, all of our rookies must suck and we wasted the entire draft. I don't even need to see them play. They suck.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-18-2009, 06:08 PM
Anyone over 300 Lbs who can't do 225 over 20 times (who actually plays football) is weaker than a wet piece of toilet paper. Brady Quinn hit 225 as well as Hills and he's a QB.

So are you saying that Hills is weak because he benched 225 only 24 times, or what is your rationale for saying that he is weak?

Here are some other notable "weak" performers from this years combine and their bench press numbers from the combine:

Britton, Eben 24
Isdaner, Greg 24
Parker, Anthony 24
Tupou, Fenuki 24
Loadholt, Phil 24
Brewster, Robert 23
Monroe, Eugene 23
Caldwell, Antoine 23
Levitre, Andy 23
Kemp, Andy 23
Green, Tyronne 22
Unger, Max 22
Williams, Edwin 22
Kropog, Troy 21
Miller, Maurice 21
Johnson, Herman 21
Davis, C.J. 21
Oher, Michael 21

I guess by your logic......Monroe, Unger, Oher, Levitre, Loadholt, Britton and Caldwell are all busts and should be released because they are "weak and soft". :rolleyes:

86WARD
05-18-2009, 07:26 PM
True, he showed nothing, as in there was nothing to judge him by. I don't get how he could "show" any of those things without being on the field.

I guess Dixon sucks because he didn't beat out Big Ben last year. And Davis sucks because he didn't beat out Harrison. And Mundy sucks because he couldn't beat out Polamalu. And Mendenhall sucks because he got injured.

Come to think of it, all of our rookies must suck and we wasted the entire draft. I don't even need to see them play. They suck.

No...Davis sucks because he couldn't even contribute on special teams...:laughing:

billybob
05-18-2009, 10:38 PM
So what you are saying is that you have never seen any Texas games where Tony Hills played. Correct??

Also, I guess you just took somebodys "word " that he is weak and soft. He put up 225lbs 24 times in his pro day workout and spent all last season in the weight room.

I dont know if Tony Hills will ever be a starter for the Steelers, but I am not going to carelessly write him off without ever letting him get to his 2nd training camp because ....."word is" :coffee:

Hey Gonzo , whats up ? No different than a whole lotta people writing off the Mach 5 last season . Hills , as a rookie , barely had a chance last year . He should be in a position to impress this camp . Considering how bad our line was last season , he should be a shoo in this time around . As well as the Mach 5 performed last season , i would think they all should be replaced for this coming season . At least Max , Kemo , and Colon Should be gone this season . Who knows , maybe Hartwig too , what the heck , start a whole new line . That would make everyone happy .
Start a whole new line , thats the right thing to do . :rofl:

86WARD
05-18-2009, 10:51 PM
I agree BB. I think they are going to want to get a really good look at HIlls during camp this season.

Steely McSmash
05-18-2009, 11:07 PM
.... If the entire Steeler O line could be categorized as having a "blue collar work ethic", we would see:

- guys like Max Starks show effort on every play, rather than loaf or coast half the time, ......

No offense but Starks sounds like the Teamsters I worked with for a summer :rofl:


I take Blue collar to mean non-fancy guys who aren't full of themselves and are willing to get the job done.

I think the inevitable conclusion is that we won't know much about Tony Hills until training camp. The team did not add much at OT thru the draft so I assume they think they have some adequate depth there. Whether or not that includes Hills I don't think anyone can claim to know.

No one with any sense expected him to start lst year barring disasterous injuries.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-19-2009, 12:54 AM
I take Blue collar to mean non-fancy guys who aren't full of themselves and are willing to get the job done.

No one with any sense expected him to start lst year barring disasterous injuries.

By your definition, every O lineman in the NFL is "blue collar". My biggest issue with Starks has been the same thing that was scouted of him as a college senior. He has all the physical size and tools, but never seems motivated to put it together and be as dominant as he should be.

Supreme effort without talent is painful to watch.................superior talent without effort is a damn shame to see. That is what I have seen in Max Starks 5 year career. :banging:

steelreserve
05-19-2009, 11:02 AM
By your definition, every O lineman in the NFL is "blue collar".

Except Faneca.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-19-2009, 01:42 PM
Except Faneca.

Faneca is much more of a "blue collar" guy in the way he plays on the field when compared to Max Starks. Guys that work hard at their craft and are successful, deserve to get paid well. Guys that only work hard sometimes, or when they feel like it should not.

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-19-2009, 02:08 PM
Umm, you need to understand what the words "vision" and "insight" mean. Those allow you to be quite further ahead. Ahh, some don't have it.

You need to understand that since Hills was recovering from an injury and therefore his rookie year was a year to get him back into shape/learn the playbook....he is an unknown quanity.

But by all means if you have some special "insight" that the rest of us are not privy to...that allowed you to "see" Hills last year...please share it with us.

Since Hills never dressed last year..I would be very interested in knowing where you were when your "vision" and "insight" showed you that he was lazy and soft.

steelreserve
05-19-2009, 02:30 PM
Faneca is much more of a "blue collar" guy in the way he plays on the field when compared to Max Starks. Guys that work hard at their craft and are successful, deserve to get paid well. Guys that only work hard sometimes, or when they feel like it should not.

Well, yeah, I was referring more to the "full of himself" part. Even when Faneca was bitching, he still played hard for the most part.

Starks ... pretty much what you said.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-19-2009, 02:36 PM
Well, yeah, I was referring more to the "full of himself" part. Even when Faneca was bitching, he still played hard for the most part.

Starks ... pretty much what you said.

Yeah, I dont consider Faneca as full of himself, but he should have just kept his mouth shut and played out his contract without complaining in the media. In the end it worked out fine for him as he got the big contract.

Just funny how other vets in the last year of their contracts don't complain like he did.

I still think Hills is gonna end up playing OT for us in the next couple seasons. Too early to write him off or they would have done it in training camp like Fred Gibson or Orien Harris was.

fansince'76
05-19-2009, 02:41 PM
Yeah, I dont consider Faneca as full of himself, but he should have just kept his mouth shut and played out his contract without complaining in the media. In the end it worked out fine for him as he got the big contract.

Yep, he got to go to NY and watch his new team's season get almost singlehandedly tossed away by the "Amazing Pro Bowl Pick Machine" while we won another ring. But he got his huge payday, so everyone involved wound up happy. :thumbsup:

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-19-2009, 03:13 PM
So are you saying that Hills is weak because he benched 225 only 24 times, or what is your rationale for saying that he is weak?

Here are some other notable "weak" performers from this years combine and their bench press numbers from the combine:

Britton, Eben 24
Isdaner, Greg 24
Parker, Anthony 24
Tupou, Fenuki 24
Loadholt, Phil 24
Brewster, Robert 23
Monroe, Eugene 23
Caldwell, Antoine 23
Levitre, Andy 23
Kemp, Andy 23
Green, Tyronne 22
Unger, Max 22
Williams, Edwin 22
Kropog, Troy 21
Miller, Maurice 21
Johnson, Herman 21
Davis, C.J. 21
Oher, Michael 21

I guess by your logic......Monroe, Unger, Oher, Levitre, Loadholt, Britton and Caldwell are all busts and should be released because they are "weak and soft". :rolleyes:

For the record...Ryan Clady had 24 reps at the combine in 2008 (same year as Tony Hills)...guess his rookie stats should be thrown out the window since he must be "weak and lazy."