PDA

View Full Version : Is Ben Roethlisberger being sacked into an early retirement?


mesaSteeler
05-15-2009, 11:01 PM
Is Ben Roethlisberger being sacked into an early retirement?
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Is-Ben-Roethlisberger-being-sacked-into-an-early?urn=nfl,163385
By MJD

"Ben Roethlisberger gets sacked too much, and the Steelers should be concerned about that" was one of the most popular themes of last season. As it turned out, the Steelers survived any problems with their offensive line, and then went on to give a big Lombardi Trophy-sized middle finger to everyone who said their pass blocking wasn't good enough.

But it was good enough last year. The dangers of Ben Roethlisberger(notes) getting sacked a lot, however, might not be so short-term.

There was some interesting work done at pro-football-reference.com earlier this week about how the number of sacks a quarterback takes early in his career can affect how (or if) he plays later in his career. Here's a little bit about how the research went:

I pulled all quarterbacks debuting since 1970 who threw at least 1,000 passes by age 26, and had a career yards per pass attempt of 6.0 or higher through age 26, and then looked at their sack rates. Some of those quarterbacks are still active, so I excluded any that were age 36 or younger and still playing last year.

That left a nice, even forty quarterbacks. The correlation coefficient between sack percentage through age 26, and the player’s age in their last season in the NFL, is -0.335. This negative correlation means that the quarterbacks who took a higher percentage of sacks at a young age did tend to retire at an earlier age.

You can go read more details about the research here, but the bottom line is that guys who get sacked as much as Ben Roethlisberger (and only three guys in history have been sacked more than Ben Roethlisberger through age 26) aren't nearly as likely to be starting quarterbacks past their 33rd birthday. The four names closest to Roethlisberger's on the "number of times sacked through the age of 26" are Neil Lomax, David Carr(notes), Tim Couch(notes), and Tony Banks.

Obviously, Large Benjamin is ten times the quarterback any of those guys are, but he's not superhuman. Longevity will be an issue if they can't keep him off his back.

Gracias, JJ Cooper at the FanHouse.

Psyychoward86
05-15-2009, 11:18 PM
Interesting analysis. And i do hope we protect Ben in the coming years. I dont think we'll have a QB as good as Ben in a long time after he's gone. We need to keep him upright. Starting with the run game. Because really, our O-line problems are a bit overrated. Oftentimes it's BB's "team first" attitude that gets him sacked so much.

tony hipchest
05-15-2009, 11:24 PM
The four names closest to Roethlisberger's on the "number of times sacked through the age of 26" are Neil Lomax, David Carr(notes), Tim Couch(notes), and Tony Banks.
.

in the infamous words of jeff spicoli...

"...those guys are fags!!!!"

fansince'76
05-15-2009, 11:29 PM
Elway was sacked a record 516 times and he stuck around for 16 seasons. However, it would be nice to get back down to around 25-30 sacks allowed per season like Ben's first two years rather than 45-50 like the last three.

Psyychoward86
05-15-2009, 11:33 PM
Elway was sacked a record 516 times and he stuck around for 16 seasons. However, it would be nice to get back around 25-30 sacks allowed per season like Ben's first two seasons rather than 45-50 like the last three.

I think that's realistic, but boy will it take some time. I wouldnt have to hold my breath on every pass play anymore.

tony hipchest
05-15-2009, 11:36 PM
ben was sacked by a crown victoria, and it couldnt keep him down.

i'm more worried about mack trucks and the cheap shots goodell seems to allow only against the steelers as opposed to a typical football sack.

a good running back gets 'sacked' about 20 times a game and ben is much tougher than a good running back.

mesaSteeler
05-16-2009, 12:35 AM
I am concerned, like the writer of the article, about the cumulative effects of all of these hits that BB is taking. As Psyychoward86 stated a power running game would do wonders in helping BB's longevity.

wootawnee
05-16-2009, 02:10 AM
in the infamous words of jeff spicoli...

"...those guys are fags!!!!"



LOL...........No shirt....No shoes.....No dice......


http://www.emphatic.com/bobg/spicoli.jpg
http://dudespaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/spicoliinfasttimesatridgemonthigh1.jpg

paw-n-maul-u
05-16-2009, 02:59 AM
sean penn's most epic performance ...

I feel that a 2011 line of

Starks?
Kemo
Shipley
Urbik
Colon?

will be much improved from our current line. I have really high hopes for shipley

Galax Steeler
05-16-2009, 05:22 AM
Elway was sacked a record 516 times and he stuck around for 16 seasons. However, it would be nice to get back down to around 25-30 sacks allowed per season like Ben's first two years rather than 45-50 like the last three.

That is alot of sacks hopefully Ben won't see that many.

WeegiesWarriors
05-16-2009, 07:56 AM
20 years ago QBs were being sacked by any means possible. To the knees, the head, neck, and by whatever force necessary. They were even allowed to be hit well after the throw was made. Hell Bradshaw was picked up and spiked on top of his head.

I'm just saying there are too many variables at play to scientifically analyze this. Rules have changed such that defenders rarely hit a QB in the head or on the knees. Not that it's easy taking a sack in today's NFL; but a guy's career is more likely to get cut short by taking a shot on the knees time and time again than in the chest. The repercussions of taking a cheap shot on a QB is much higher today than even 10 years ago.

I would rather not see a sack, but the one's Ben takes he usually is able to protect himself as he is about to get hit.

stillers4me
05-16-2009, 08:52 AM
ben was sacked by a crown victoria, and it couldnt keep him down.

I believe it was actually a Chrysler New Yorker. :flap:

Ben said himself that most of the hits are no big, deal. He's learned how to absorb them and only a few of them actually hurt. :sofunny:

It's the long term effects of behing faceplanted into a windshield (from the wrong side!) that actually has me worried. The average person would be using it as an excuse for disabilty benefits. That's gotta hurt.

triphahn
05-16-2009, 11:33 AM
What I notice is that while Ben does take some hits a lot of his sacks are being pulled down as he is running from a defender. He does not take to many hard sacks as he is very elusive and big. He has the heart of a champion. He will be fine.

wootawnee
05-17-2009, 11:27 PM
sean penn's most epic performance ...

I feel that a 2011 line of

Starks?
Kemo
Shipley
Urbik
Colon?

will be much improved from our current line. I have really high hopes for shipley

Justin isnt going anywhere......He is leading those young bucks just fine.........

Steel Head
05-17-2009, 11:40 PM
according to some people here, Willie Colon is good LOL

The Duke
05-18-2009, 01:01 AM
Justin isnt going anywhere......He is leading those young bucks just fine.........

Yeah, he is. but it's more of a contract issue. if shipley works out hartwig is 100% gone

according to some people here, Willie Colon is good LOL

He is. Believe me, I HATED him too before. why? because of his penalties more than anything. once I got past that I realized the effort this guy puts on his work, being undersized for the position and everything

he's probably our best young lineman

Fire Haley
05-18-2009, 04:11 AM
A fanhouse blog?

Written by some Steeler hater fan?

Ha Ha!


What garbage.

Steel Head
05-18-2009, 08:21 AM
He is. Believe me, I HATED him too before. why? because of his penalties more than anything. once I got past that I realized the effort this guy puts on his work, being undersized for the position and everything

he's probably our best young lineman

penalties don't bother me as much as people running right around him and getting a free shot on Ben

He has a long way to go still

steelreserve
05-18-2009, 11:46 AM
I'm not worried about his sack total at all. It's just getting tackled.

A starting running back gets "sacked" 30 times a game and does just fine, and more often than not it's in a big dogpile, which you don't see much on a sack. This is just another example of our safety and liability-crazed society being scared to death and overanalyzing everything. Maybe we should strap the QB into a child seat while we're at it.

Also, the other QBs on that list didn't last long because they were journeyman QBs who played for shitty teams and it was time to retire anyway, or (in Couch's case) it wasn't so much a retirement as nobody wanted him.

MJ5150
05-18-2009, 12:14 PM
I think it has already taken some time off his playing days. He's going to be one messed up dude when he retires.

-Mike

Steely McSmash
05-18-2009, 12:47 PM
I'm not worried about his sack total at all. It's just getting tackled.

A starting running back gets "sacked" 30 times a game and does just fine, and more often than not it's in a big dogpile, which you don't see much on a sack. This is just another example of our safety and liability-crazed society being scared to death and overanalyzing everything.

Avg career of a RB is 4 years not coincidentally.

Application of statistics to individuals is poor practice in general. Even beyond ordinary individuals, statistics cannot describe Ben is my personal opinion. Having gone through all these trials and coming out the other end with 2 rings, unquestioned team leadership and a lot of experience is a lot different than taking the same punishment with no rewards, QB controversies and having losing seasons.

steelreserve
05-18-2009, 01:58 PM
Avg career of a RB is 4 years not coincidentally.

Yeah, and the average career of any NFL player, period, is 3 1/2 years. Kickers, of all positions, have the shortest career length. Most players just aren't good enough to stick around for long. So there's really no point to that kind of stat.

Out of all non-special teams positions, quarterbacks get tackled the least, or have less big collisions, than any other position except maybe cornerback. Linebackers and running backs? They 're probably involved in 50 hits or collisions a game, and even among the longest-serving, almost all of them are done by their early or mid-30s. THAT'S a position where hits take a toll on your body. Even if you're an unlucky quarterback, you'll rarely be tackled hard that many times in an entire season. And you won't get beat up day after day in practice either.

I really don't think 4 or 5 hits a game is anything to worry about unless one of them happens to be a freak injury or an unusually large percentage of them result in a concussion. It's no coincidence that out of all the regular positions, quarterback is the only one where guys regularly play into their 40s.

LVSteelersfan
05-18-2009, 03:32 PM
I'm more concerned about the jerks who body slam QBs straight back into the ground and hit the back of their helmet on the ground and cause concussions. If Ben can stay away from concussions and knee injuries, I think he will be around awhile. But you never know when a career ending injury can happen to anyone. QB should be a priority in the next few drafts just in case something happens to Ben. Get a clipboard holder who can actually come in and play the game if needed. I know that it is easier said than done though. I am not so sure about our backups at QB at this point. Dixon reminds me too much of the Kordell Stewart experiment.

wootawnee
05-19-2009, 01:45 AM
Come on you pansies........What did the burgh turn into a whitecollar town since I left.?..........Try wheeling concrete for 40 years and let me know how it turned out.........Bradshaw got piledrived on his mellon and he started throwing way better touch passes......Those hits knock some sense into ya..........New rule....Drink 3 beers before you post.......Then you will tell the truth.....Like tailgating......LOL...

http://www.appletreeblog.com/wp-content/2007/09/steel-worker.jpg

http://renovatemyspace.com/1974/122807hConcrete500.jpg

http://image03.webshots.com/3/5/49/92/19954992HfJqrSpjwO_fs.jpg

Edman
05-19-2009, 09:29 AM
A vast majority of the time Ben is getting sacked is when he's getting pulled down by defenders. Ben's reckless style isn't going to change.

Still, it would be nice to limit the sacks. And there's still those late hits and cheap shots he gets.

revefsreleets
05-19-2009, 10:49 AM
1st off, Ben is huge. He's 10-15 lbs heavier than "protypical" (although QB's keep getting larger...I remember reading that Dante Culpepper was bigger than all of but about 5 OL in the HOF). He's also really athletic, more so than he's given credit for. Finally it comes down to the kinds of sacks he takes. Those blindside hits from behind are worth 20 routine "grab and pulls" that he goes through.

Nobody is happy that he gets hit as much as he does, but the fact is, as long as he remains a gunslinger, it doesn't matter what line he plays behind, he's going to take some hits. He's a pretty tough hombre, too, which will help.