PDA

View Full Version : Reports On Sweed Are Good


mesaSteeler
05-19-2009, 12:27 AM
Reports On Sweed Are Good
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/05/18/reports-on-sweed-are-good/
Posted May 18, 2009 9:56PM By JJ Cooper (RSS feed)

If there's one 2008 Steeler draftee who is being counted on more than any other, it's Limas Sweed.

Even a year after he was drafted, first-round pick Rashard Mendenhall will be the No. 2 tailback, but even if he fails at the job, Mewelde Moore and Tank Summers are available to step in. Third-round pick Bruce Davis and fourth-round pick Tony Hills will need extremely impressive training camps just to make the gameday roster, fifth-round pick Dennis Dixon is likely the No. 3 quarterback while sixth-round pick Ryan Mundy is battling for a roster spot.

But Sweed is the No. 3 receiver heading into training camp and the Steelers need him to replace Nate Washington. We saw last year that he can get open. We saw that he can throw a block (when motivated), but we also saw that he sometimes has a problem with hanging on to the ball.

And according to ESPN's John Clayton, he's starting to catch the ball.

Reports from the minicamp are very encouraging about Sweed. It's still too early to determine if he's ready to make a big jump, but he will be closely monitored in training camp to see if he can be a real factor in Year 2. He's got a chance.

Any expectations for Sweed to step in and dominate as a rookie were unrealistic, something that was obvious before the 2008 season began. But it's not too much to ask a second-year receiver to be ready to contribute significantly. Shaun McDonald gives the Steelers someone who could fill in if Hines Ward goes down with an injury, and Mike Wallace could eventually prove to be a deep threat, but the Steelers passing game will need a lot of Sweed this year. Hopefully he's ready to step up.

Mizark70
05-19-2009, 12:38 AM
I hope to see him do well this year. We need him to do well.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-19-2009, 12:57 AM
This is the funny thing. All the haters talking about his drops and that he is a bust will fade into the woodwork if Sweed is productive in his 2nd season. Very similar to how they did in Lawrence Timmons 2nd year.

When are fans gonna learn that the game isnt that easy and young guys need time to make the transition?

Its why I really dont expect anything from Frank Summers, Keenan Lewis, Mike Wallace this year.......but am hopeful for Urbik, because Stapleton is just so below average at best.

MasterOfPuppets
05-19-2009, 01:33 AM
This is the funny thing. All the haters talking about his drops and that he is a bust will fade into the woodwork if Sweed is productive in his 2nd season. Very similar to how they did in Lawrence Timmons 2nd year.

When are fans gonna learn that the game isnt that easy and young guys need time to make the transition?

Its why I really dont expect anything from Frank Summers, Keenan Lewis, Mike Wallace this year.......but am hopeful for Urbik, because Stapleton is just so below average at best.don't worry...i've got a list of the bashers... :wtf: ....i'll be stompin em like c0ckroaches as they try to board the sweeeeeed wagon...:tt03:

pancake
05-19-2009, 03:45 AM
This is the funny thing. All the haters talking about his drops and that he is a bust will fade into the woodwork if Sweed is productive in his 2nd season. Very similar to how they did in Lawrence Timmons 2nd year.

When are fans gonna learn that the game isnt that easy and young guys need time to make the transition?

Its why I really dont expect anything from Frank Summers, Keenan Lewis, Mike Wallace this year.......but am hopeful for Urbik, because Stapleton is just so below average at best.

I agree... but I still have high hopes for Summers, RB's have been known to catch on quickly.

Galax Steeler
05-19-2009, 04:32 AM
don't worry...i've got a list of the bashers... :wtf: ....i'll be stompin em like c0ckroaches as they try to board the sweeeeeed wagon...:tt03:

Just kick them off the wagon one by one.:toofunny:

MasterOfPuppets
05-19-2009, 04:54 AM
lets see.....galaxy....galaxy....:mg: ....ok, your clear to board...but i got my eye on you...:eye:

theplatypus
05-19-2009, 07:31 AM
If our O-line can get it together this year the Steelers will be epic.

Kindjunior
05-19-2009, 07:35 AM
I think Sweed will be fine, the transition to the NFL for WR's is one of the hardest to make IMO.

Detective
05-19-2009, 08:41 AM
I think it's a tough transition for any position in the NFL.. everybody has their problems in their first year. Holmes had fumbling issues as a rookie.. catching is just something Sweed needs to work on. Once he settles down, I think he's gonna be a great player.. hopefully in a few years when Ward hangs it up, he'll be starting material.

Indo
05-19-2009, 09:27 AM
For the record----and before the Sweed-Bashers jump on the bandwagon---let me just say that I HAVE been a fan of Sweed and believe that he will have a break-out season



S W E E E E D !

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-19-2009, 10:02 AM
In the middle of all this, if we step back and look at what is going on...I think that we are all potentially missing what may be an important stepping stone of Steelers History.

I think we are seeing the first part of a "changing of the guard" for our WR corps. Holmes, Sweed, Wallace, McDonald....are probably part of a phasing-in of our "future" at the position.

I for one am going to pay alot of attention to what is going on with these young guys, there is enough talent there to warrant a GREAT deal of hope for the next several years.

Steelerfreak58
05-19-2009, 10:07 AM
I think Sweed is going to surprise many Steeler fans this year.

revefsreleets
05-19-2009, 11:14 AM
Wow...."basher"? That's a bit harsh.

I don't think he had his head in the game...and until he proves differently, I'll continue to be skeptical. I don't question his talent or ability, as I've watched him play on several occasions for Texas, but the drops, the mental errors, the stupid penalties, and checking out where the endzone is before he catches the ball are all red flags for me. Sorry, but, what did Yogi Berra say? Something like "Baseball is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical".

That works for football, too. If he buckles down, he'll be fine, but he has GOT to get his head wrapped around the professional game of football...

mulldog24
05-19-2009, 11:18 AM
I like Sweed alot and think it's just a matter of getting more reps.The more time with the starting unit he gets the more comfortable he will be.The receiver position is very hard to learn so it will take time but Sweed will be fine!:thumbsup:

steeldawg
05-19-2009, 11:25 AM
sweed will get it done this year....very talented i think wants he get his head right he will do big things.

steeldawg
05-19-2009, 11:27 AM
but its not the passing game im worried about.... can we run the ball this year ? can we get those 3rd and 1 's ,4th an 1's this year? those are the concerns i have

Steel Head
05-19-2009, 11:44 AM
did they report that Sweed learned to catch yet?

that would be cool

steeldawg
05-19-2009, 11:45 AM
yes sweed is catching the ball

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
05-19-2009, 11:48 AM
I look at it like this....If Sweed had caught that ball in the Baltimore game the entire attitude on Sweed would be completley different. All would say hes i great and going to be even greater...
Lets face it....a lot is put on that 1 drop.

Steel Head
05-19-2009, 11:56 AM
I look at it like this....If Sweed had caught that ball in the Baltimore game the entire attitude on Sweed would be completley different. All would say hes i great and going to be even greater...
Lets face it....a lot is put on that 1 drop.

you didn't watch the Chargers playoff game?

steeldawg
05-19-2009, 11:57 AM
i agree with you bigben that play certainly has defined sweed to this point. I feel good about sweed though and i think once fans see more of him they will change their minds

Vincent
05-19-2009, 01:31 PM
Recall Burress' first year. Recall his first catch.:banging: Sweed isn't a bonehead. And I think he has the tools to be another Burress for us, but with a great additional feature - a functioning brain. :chuckle:

STEELAMANIA
05-19-2009, 01:55 PM
Ben likes tall receivers!!!!!!

fansince'76
05-19-2009, 01:59 PM
Ben likes tall receivers!!!!!!

SWEEEEEEEEEED! :chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-19-2009, 02:42 PM
can we get those 3rd and 1 's ,4th an 1's this year? those are the concerns i have

My guess is no. Not much will have changed in that department.

The great thing to remember is that we still have that dominant defense to lean on when we cant get the tough yards and have to punt away the football. :thumbsup:

Steel Head
05-19-2009, 02:47 PM
My guess is no. Not much will have changed in that department.

We drafted a short yardage running back and a road-grader at right guard

They should help us convert 3rd and 1's

BehindSteelCurtain
05-19-2009, 10:10 PM
WR is very hard to trasit as a rookie. Let's face it, guys in the NFL hit much harder and it's something that is always in your head. As you gain more experience that fear goes away. I think his drop against the Ravens was just a coincidence.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-20-2009, 01:07 AM
We drafted a short yardage running back and a road-grader at right guard

They should help us convert 3rd and 1's

Remember that in November and we can revisit then. My guess is that Summers will be in track pants, Urbik will be starting RG and we will still be throwing short passes on 3rd and 2.

scsteeler
05-20-2009, 08:42 AM
This is the funny thing. All the haters talking about his drops and that he is a bust will fade into the woodwork if Sweed is productive in his 2nd season. Very similar to how they did in Lawrence Timmons 2nd year.

When are fans gonna learn that the game isnt that easy and young guys need time to make the transition?

Its why I really dont expect anything from Frank Summers, Keenan Lewis, Mike Wallace this year.......but am hopeful for Urbik, because Stapleton is just so below average at best.

I think Sweed will be fine. Sweed was a rookie last year and did not get to play much and I think nerves got him in the playoffs but that will change this year. This guy will be better.

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 09:44 AM
Remember that in November and we can revisit then. My guess is that Summers will be in track pants, Urbik will be starting RG and we will still be throwing short passes on 3rd and 2.

Fire Arians!

Nonsense. If we TRULY upgrade the OL, and we TRULY have a short yardage back, Arians will adjust his gameplan accordingly. If not, he'll continue to take what's given to him. And he'll continue to have the full faith and confidence of his players, his coach and the FO.

But he'll also, I'm sure, continue to get flack from the millions of internet posters who know better than Tomlin, Colbert and the Rooney's, and are so clearly and obviously better suited to control the Steelers offense. :headshake:

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-20-2009, 11:13 AM
Fire Arians!

Nonsense. If we TRULY upgrade the OL, and we TRULY have a short yardage back, Arians will adjust his gameplan accordingly. If not, he'll continue to take what's given to him. And he'll continue to have the full faith and confidence of his players, his coach and the FO.

But he'll also, I'm sure, continue to get flack from the millions of internet posters who know better than Tomlin, Colbert and the Rooney's, and are so clearly and obviously better suited to control the Steelers offense. :headshake:

I have never called for Arians firing. I have said the he has an offensive philosophy and is seemingly too stubborn to deviate from it it. When Arians "adjusts his gameplan accordingly" and increases short yardage conversions call me...........until then :coffee:

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 11:24 AM
Well, as I said, IF we truly found a short yardage back and IF we've upgraded our run blocking, then I'm quite positive, since BA is obviously not an idiot, he'll adjust accordingly in order to play to our new strengths, just as he adjusted last year to play to our strengths and minimize our weaknesses last year.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but perhaps we didn't run the ball much in short yardage last year because a guy who couldn't even make the Bengals roster, and was cut from the Steelers to clear a few hundred thou in cap space was our short yardage back?

Maybe? Just maybe?

Cheppy
05-20-2009, 11:34 AM
he'll adjust accordingly in order to play to our new strengths, just as he adjusted last year to play to our strengths and minimize our weaknesses last year.

He made some great in-game adjustments last year. Like that Eagles game, he clearly minimized a weakness of ours (o-line) by doing nothing but 5-7 step drops, all game. Not just a half, the entire game. And all of those outside runs called that utilized Parker's speed were extremely effective against the Ravens...

Don't bother Gonzo. The man's delusional.

Cheppy
05-20-2009, 11:41 AM
We drafted a short yardage running back and a road-grader at right guard

With that in mind I don't see how they won't improve in that area. Though, they really only have to go up from last season. I wonder if they'll run the "I" some & use The Tank as a fullback.

43Hitman
05-20-2009, 11:53 AM
I agree... but I still have high hopes for Summers, RB's have been known to catch on quickly.

Hey, you stole my avatar!

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 11:56 AM
He made some great in-game adjustments last year. Like that Eagles game, he clearly minimized a weakness of ours (o-line) by doing nothing but 5-7 step drops, all game. Not just a half, the entire game. And all of those outside runs called that utilized Parker's speed were extremely effective against the Ravens...

Don't bother Gonzo. The man's delusional.
That's two games.

There were 17 others. I remember some very well called games that BA was responsible for. Did you conveniently NOT see those 17 games, or are you another one of these dolts who blame the coaches for mistakes and credit the players for the successes?

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-20-2009, 12:01 PM
since BA is obviously not an idiot, he'll adjust accordingly in order to play to our new strengths, just as he adjusted last year to play to our strengths and minimize our weaknesses last year.


Maybe? Just maybe?

No, the man is not an idiot, but I am guessing very proud of his offensive philosophy. It took verbal pleas to the media by Parker and members of the offensive line to run the football and committ to establishing the run, before the Steelers would do it towards the end of the season.

When you can show me a Bruce Arians offense at any point in his career in the NFL, that has been successful on 3rd and short or 4th and short situations..........then I will believe that he is going to try and use those things you mentioned (like a short yardage back/formations). Until then, I expect more of the same on 3rd and 4th and short yardage.

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 12:04 PM
I'm tired. I'll post other peoples arguments for awhile:

Bruce Arians stars in strange Steelers win
Before reading this article, please read our Steelers-Chargers post-game analysis found here.

This website has been critical of Steelers’ Offensive Coordinator Bruce Arians for most of the season. In our opinion, Arians has failed to make in-game adjustments to counter the constant blitz schemes that the Steelers have faced. As team after team followed the same script when playing the Steelers, Arians seemed to stubbornly refuse to implement the quick passes that are the obvious counter-attack to constant blitzing. In the game earlier this year against the Philadelphia Eagles, Arians didn’t implement this strategy even after the Eagles’ 50th blitz and sack of Ben Roethlisberger (I believe the Eagles sacked Roethlisberger 700 times during that game, but I could be mistaken). We, along with most Steelers fans, were shocked when the Steelers came out in the second half of that game, and showed no sign of offensive adjustments of any type.

With this as background, we felt compelled to give Arians kudos for a job well done. In the Steelers’ odd 11-10 win over the San Diego Chargers, it was really Bruce Arians who was the hero of the game.

Some fans may ask, “how was Arians the hero of a game in which Ben Roethlisberger passed for 308 yards, Willie Parker ran for 115 yards, and Hines Ward had 124 yards receiving”? Well, the answer is simple. Bruce Arians called a nearly perfect game, and he is the reason that each of the above players had the exceptional performance that they did.

In the passing game, Arians had Roethlisberger executing the quick slant pass as effectively as I’ve seen any quarterback execute it. It is that particular play that is the bread and butter play for Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. In fact, the Patriots use that play as a defacto running game.

Rothlisberger repeatedly got rid of the ball quickly in the face of a Chargers’ blitz. Usually, the recipient of those quick passes were Santonio Holmes or Matt Spaeth. In fact, it was this strategy which was responsible for Spaeth catching 6 passes during the game. Steelers Today has always believed that Arians under-utilizes the tight end, we were pleasantly surprised to see Spaeth play such an active role in the offense.

Arians called a diverse game that resulted in Big Ben completing passes to 7 different receivers. That is a very rare statistic for the Steelers offense.

Besides calling a brilliant passing game, Arians also used the running game to eat up the clock and to wear down the Chargers’ defense. Willie Parker’s 115 yards, and the Steelers 36:31minute - 23:29 minute time of possession advantage, is proof of this fact.

Arians also showed a willingness to keep experimenting until he found something that worked. Early in the game, he had Willie Parker attempt to gain short yardage, only to watch him get stuffed. Mewelde Moore met with the same fate. So Arians gave little-used running back Gary Russell an opportunity on third down. Not only did Russell gain the needed yardage, but when called upon to do it again later in the game, Russell did it again. By showing flexibility, Arians may have found a new third down back. Moreover, he has found a way to give valuable playing time to a back who has shown potential, but has been given few chances to prove himself.

The Steelers offense failed to get into the endzone. But that does not mean that they weren’t dominant. Bruce Arians called a near-perfect game, and the offense dominated the Chargers to a much greater degree than was reflected on the scoreboard.

Ben Roethlisberger, Willie Parker, Hines Ward, Matt Spaeth, Troy Polamalu, and James Harrison all had excellent games on Sunday. But in our opinion, the game ball for this win goes to Bruce Arians. Way to go, Bruce!

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-20-2009, 12:14 PM
A post was made that basically said they were less concerned with Sweed and more concerned with converting 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 situations.

I basically stated my opinion that I doubt that will happen, for reasons previously stated. Let's not make this into an Arians arguement thread........those are so played.

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 12:16 PM
I was given the Eagles game. I handed back the San Diego game, and now you want to move on?

OK. That's cool. We have a whole summer and then a new season to argue about Arians.

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 12:33 PM
Hmmmm...okay. How about 3rd down conversion percentages under Arians?

2008- Steelers ranked 14th. No great shakes, about average, but still in the top half of the league.
2007- Hmmmmm...we were 103 of 220, or 47%. What! That's 3rd best in the NFL! Must be a typo.

So, with arguably one of the worst OL's in the NFL, we STILL managed to land in the top half of the league in 3rd down percentage last year, in spite of Arians awful play calling. I'm guessing 2007 was probably just a fluke.

I'm sure the haters will want to dissect this more, but I'm not sure they keep stats like % by yardage needed.

Cheppy
05-20-2009, 12:41 PM
That's two games.

There were 17 others. I remember some very well called games that BA was responsible for. Did you conveniently NOT see those 17 games, or are you another one of these dolts who blame the coaches for mistakes and credit the players for the successes?

I think you underestimate how great the defense & Ben was last year. What very well called games are you referring to? And don't bother mentioning the season finale against the browns. That was the game that they dusted off the i-formations & ran all over the Browns. (the same i-formation that fater the game arians said he ran alot all year:lol:, that was a head scratching statement)

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 12:46 PM
I think you underestimate how great the defense & Ben was last year. What very well called games are you referring to? And don't bother mentioning the season finale against the browns. That was the game that they dusted off the i-formations & ran all over the Browns. (the same i-formation that fater the game arians said he ran alot all year:lol:, that was a head scratching statement)

Why don't you bother reading the previous posts before you just randomly chime in with your extremely myopic and jaundiced opinion of BA? You have your Eagles game, and I have my Chargers game. Funny how you dismiss the Browns game, though...was that a game that Ben called or something?

Speaking of, I also like how you give all the credit to Ben. Perhaps I wasn't so far off with my earlier guess that you're another of those loss = coach and win = player type guys.

Cheppy
05-20-2009, 12:48 PM
I'm tired. I'll post other peoples arguments for awhile:

Bruce Arians stars in strange Steelers win
Before reading this article, please read our Steelers-Chargers post-game analysis found here.

This website has been critical of Steelers’ Offensive Coordinator Bruce Arians for most of the season. In our opinion, Arians has failed to make in-game adjustments to counter the constant blitz schemes that the Steelers have faced. As team after team followed the same script when playing the Steelers, Arians seemed to stubbornly refuse to implement the quick passes that are the obvious counter-attack to constant blitzing. In the game earlier this year against the Philadelphia Eagles, Arians didn’t implement this strategy even after the Eagles’ 50th blitz and sack of Ben Roethlisberger (I believe the Eagles sacked Roethlisberger 700 times during that game, but I could be mistaken). We, along with most Steelers fans, were shocked when the Steelers came out in the second half of that game, and showed no sign of offensive adjustments of any type.

With this as background, we felt compelled to give Arians kudos for a job well done. In the Steelers’ odd 11-10 win over the San Diego Chargers, it was really Bruce Arians who was the hero of the game.

Some fans may ask, “how was Arians the hero of a game in which Ben Roethlisberger passed for 308 yards, Willie Parker ran for 115 yards, and Hines Ward had 124 yards receiving”? Well, the answer is simple. Bruce Arians called a nearly perfect game, and he is the reason that each of the above players had the exceptional performance that they did.

In the passing game, Arians had Roethlisberger executing the quick slant pass as effectively as I’ve seen any quarterback execute it. It is that particular play that is the bread and butter play for Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. In fact, the Patriots use that play as a defacto running game.

Rothlisberger repeatedly got rid of the ball quickly in the face of a Chargers’ blitz. Usually, the recipient of those quick passes were Santonio Holmes or Matt Spaeth. In fact, it was this strategy which was responsible for Spaeth catching 6 passes during the game. Steelers Today has always believed that Arians under-utilizes the tight end, we were pleasantly surprised to see Spaeth play such an active role in the offense.

Arians called a diverse game that resulted in Big Ben completing passes to 7 different receivers. That is a very rare statistic for the Steelers offense.

Besides calling a brilliant passing game, Arians also used the running game to eat up the clock and to wear down the Chargers’ defense. Willie Parker’s 115 yards, and the Steelers 36:31minute - 23:29 minute time of possession advantage, is proof of this fact.

Arians also showed a willingness to keep experimenting until he found something that worked. Early in the game, he had Willie Parker attempt to gain short yardage, only to watch him get stuffed. Mewelde Moore met with the same fate. So Arians gave little-used running back Gary Russell an opportunity on third down. Not only did Russell gain the needed yardage, but when called upon to do it again later in the game, Russell did it again. By showing flexibility, Arians may have found a new third down back. Moreover, he has found a way to give valuable playing time to a back who has shown potential, but has been given few chances to prove himself.

The Steelers offense failed to get into the endzone. But that does not mean that they weren’t dominant. Bruce Arians called a near-perfect game, and the offense dominated the Chargers to a much greater degree than was reflected on the scoreboard.

Ben Roethlisberger, Willie Parker, Hines Ward, Matt Spaeth, Troy Polamalu, and James Harrison all had excellent games on Sunday. But in our opinion, the game ball for this win goes to Bruce Arians. Way to go, Bruce!

No mention of the Chargers passing defense being ranked dead last huh? Convenient... But the offensive coordinator of the offense that failed to get into the endzone was the hero of the game:laughing: Not the defense which registered a safety. (which becomes even more important considering they only won by 1) Not the defense which held them to 62 rushing yards. Not the defense that held Rivers to 164 passing yards with no TD passess & 2 picks. No, it was Arians:laughing: Wow..

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 12:52 PM
No mention of the Chargers passing defense being ranked dead last huh? Convenient... But the offensive coordinator of the offense that failed to get into the endzone was the hero of the game:laughing: Not the defense which registered a safety. (which becomes even more important considering they only won by 1) Not the defense which held them to 62 rushing yards. Not the defense that held Rivers to 164 passing yards with no TD passess & 2 picks. No, it was Arians:laughing: Wow..

So it's okay to be critical of the Steelers O when they don't light up a top D (i.e. Eagles/Ravens) but any success must be dismissed when it occurs against defenses that they SHOULD have success against? And we're talking gameplan, not execution. If the Steelers would have executed the gameplan against the Chargers it would have been a 24 point blowout. Easier to just blame the coaches, though, eh?

Also, SD's defense was dramatically improved at the end of the season last year.

PS I didn't write that, it was juts a blog or something...but it was spot-on.

Cheppy
05-20-2009, 01:01 PM
Why don't you bother reading the previous posts before you just randomly chime in with your extremely myopic and jaundiced opinion of BA? You have your Eagles game, and I have my Chargers game.

Yeah, you have that Chargers game alright. You use someone elses thoughts & they still don't even help your argument. You're too much man:laughing: How about that Cowboys game? Or how about the AFC championship game where he ran the speedy Willie Parker up the middle all game instead of calling outside runs against a hobbled, aged & not particularly fast front seven. (i brought that up before but you conveniently didn't provide your "analysis" on it)

Funny how you dismiss the Browns game, though...was that a game that Ben called or something?

Finally running out of the "I" (the same i formation that by his own account he ran all year:laughing:) & the play of the defense were the biggest reasons for their victory.

Speaking of, I also like how you give all the credit to Ben. Perhaps I wasn't so far off with my earlier guess that you're another of those loss = coach and win = player type guys.

Again, I brought up the fact before of all the games won due in humongous part to Ben running the no-huddle and pulling out victories with his guile & unparalleled improvisational skills. (i bet he pulled out as many victories like that last season than elway has in any single season throughout his career) And again, you failed to provide your "analysis" or even have the common courtesy to acknowledge that point. You may find me abrasive but at least I have the common courtesy to address everything you say. (a fan who completely lacks objectivity no less)

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 01:07 PM
Back to the "Fire Arians" herd with you!

We get it. You don't like Arians. But you have do have those two games that you drag around, and you just deflect everything else to the contrary of your own extremely narrow focus with bullshit diversions. "Ben did this" and "The defense did that", none of which actually addresses the FACT that Arians called some outstanding games last year. How about being objective in that regard?

You're not practicing what you preach, there, grumpy.

Cheppy
05-20-2009, 01:28 PM
Back to the "Fire Arians" herd with you!

We get it. You don't like Arians. But you have do have those two games that you drag around, and you just deflect everything else to the contrary of your own extremely narrow focus with bullshit diversions. "Ben did this" and "The defense did that", none of which actually addresses the FACT that Arians called some outstanding games last year. How about being objective in that regard?

You're not practicing what you preach, there, grumpy.

How about that Cowboys game? Or how about the AFC championship game where he ran the speedy Willie Parker up the middle all game instead of calling outside runs against a hobbled, aged & not particularly fast front seven. (i brought that up before but you conveniently didn't provide your "analysis" on it)


Again, I brought up the fact before of all the games won due in humongous part to Ben running the no-huddle and pulling out victories with his guile & unparalleled improvisational skills. (i bet he pulled out as many victories like that last season than elway has in any single season throughout his career) And again, you failed to provide your "analysis" or even have the common courtesy to acknowledge that point. You may find me abrasive but at least I have the common courtesy to address everything you say. (a fan who completely lacks objectivity no less)

I'm waiting..

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 01:43 PM
We ran in the Ravens game to protect our lead. They have a dangerous defense, in spite your attempt to marginalize that fact to support your ever weakening arguments. Ward was injured. Parker always has shitty games against the Rats. We won, last time I checked.

That all you got? Some myopic and biased conjecture?

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 01:57 PM
Oh, wait...you asked about the Cowboys. OK....

Well, we ran the ball 26 times and passed it 33. Ben didn't have a particularly stellar game. The OL looked horrible. Ben was running around to save his life.

Was it BA's fault that the OL performed poorly? I bet it was in your eyes.

DACEB
05-20-2009, 02:09 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/177751-bruce-arians-love-him-or-hate-him

he is too insistent that “his” offense succeeds. Instead of doing what a good coach does and that is create the offense to fit his talent. Call the plays that hide the weaknesses of your players and put them into positions to succeed.

He sticks stubbornly to his philosophies, whether they are successful or not.

While he was the Offensive Coordinator in Cleveland, the Browns had trouble establishing the run and problems in short yardage situations. The Steelers, for the most part, have had the same issues the past two seasons.

steelreserve
05-20-2009, 02:10 PM
If there's one 2008 Steeler draftee who is being counted on more than any other, it's Limas Sweed.

Not if you ask me.

We're counting on Mendenhall to take over as the starting running back, if not now then soon. All we want Sweed to do is be the No. 3 receiver. And we have other options if he can't. No contest, although it's good to hear he's progressing.

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 02:25 PM
That's not a bad article, DACEB, because it explains a lot of things that I've said all along about BA. He DOES like to zone block. He DOES construct plays that have deep crossing routes. He does like to pass the ball.

BUT he also likes to run the ball. And running the ball for possession reasons is NOT a strength of the current Steelers. Parker is not a big powerful short yardage back. The article leaves out a lot, which is understandable because no author is going to write about the things that refute his point of view, and this guy isn't writing an objective article.

He doesn't think Arians is the right guy for the job.

I go back to this: The OL is the weak link. We hired BA knowing what he was and is, and he's having to adjust accordingly to fit. I expect that with an upgraded running OL (which I'm assuming we'll have) and Mendy/Summers as power backs, we'll run the ball more, or at leats more effectively. Then when Arians runs his own offense, we'll have more success.

Fact is, as long as the OL is mediocre, no matter WHO the OC is, he'll struggle.

This is very simple, IMO. I'm not the lemming some of you have me out to be. I think this is like learning math. We're trying to do trigonometry here, but we haven't mastered arithmetic first. Without solid line play up front, the very core of the offense, EVERYTHING else will suffer. Simple running plays that look good on paper and should work won't when they aren't executed. There's no trick that an OC can employ to fix basic football plays. You HAVE to be able to run the ball up the middle. You HAVE to be able to pass the football. Without execution at the line, both will be inherently difficult to do.

And it's quicker and more expedient to second guess the coach.

Cheppy
05-20-2009, 02:33 PM
We ran in the Ravens game to protect our lead.

A week before the fast Chris Johnson absolutely decimated the Ravens D yet Arians chose to run at the strength with a fast running back. So what you're saying is, is that makes sense to you?:laughing:

We won, last time I checked.

In spite of Arians. (well, that play he drew up where ben ran around & threw across his body to santonio which he subsequently took to the house was pretty impressive)

That all you got? Some myopic and biased conjecture?

Well considering for about the 3rd time you didn't address the point I made ("a week before the fast Chris Johnson absolutely decimated the Ravens D yet Arians chose to run at the strength with a fast running back") I know one thing I have you don't. Reading comprehension skills.

fansince'76
05-20-2009, 02:42 PM
A week before the fast Chris Johnson absolutely decimated the Ravens D....

And going back to Revs' point, behind a significantly better OL than ours. Not just a little better, a whole LOT better. Also, when your running game gets absolutely stuffed by the Colts' 25th-ranked run D, which really couldn't stop anyone else on the ground all year, there's a problem up front.

revefsreleets
05-20-2009, 02:42 PM
A week before the fast Chris Johnson absolutely decimated the Ravens D yet Arians chose to run at the strength with a fast running back. So what you're saying is, is that makes sense to you?:laughing:



In spite of Arians. (well, that play he drew up where ben ran around & threw across his body to santonio which he subsequently took to the house was pretty impressive)



Well considering for about the 3rd time you didn't address the point I made ("a week before the fast Chris Johnson absolutely decimated the Ravens D yet Arians chose to run at the strength with a fast running back") I know one thing I have you don't. Reading comprehension skills.

I see, I see...back to attacking me.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn....

What was Arians alternative, bring the Bus out of retirement? Run Parker up the middle? Pass every down? He ran with what he had. And it was effective enough to do the job.

You're boring. Like I said, you hate Arians and want him gone. But he's not going anywhere. I loved your crackerjack assessment that the Steelers don't like like him and don't trust him either, but keep him around because it's better to have a BAD coordinator than a NEW coordinator. Brilliant piece of thinking there on that one.

Cheppy
05-20-2009, 02:55 PM
And going back to Revs' point, behind a significantly better OL than ours. Not just a little better, a whole LOT better. Also, when your running game gets absolutely stuffed by the Colts' 25th-ranked run D, which really couldn't stop anyone else on the ground all year, there's a problem up front.

But Parker didn't even play in that game & it really wasn't until the last game of the regular season that he was at full speed. Also the Colts D is vastly different than the Ravens' & not just from a quality standpoint. They're a faster unit. Like I've said numerous times, the Ravens just came off a brutal game against the Titans, they hadn't had a week off since week 2 and their front seven are generally up their in age & not particularly fast. (not too mention they were banged up, particularly suggs)

Now I'm not saying it would've definitely been effective, but with all of that info, what Chris Johnson did to them a week before & the fact that they have one of the fastest backs in the league wouldn't you at least make an effort to attack their weakness? It's not they they tried & it didn't work, the outside run was hardly ever called. And this isn't a case of hindsight being 20/20. I was wondering this aloud as I was watching the game unfold.

fansince'76
05-20-2009, 03:00 PM
But Parker didn't even play in that game & it really wasn't until the last game of the regular season that he was at full speed. Also the Colts D is vastly different than the Ravens' & not just from a quality standpoint. They're a faster unit. Like I've said numerous times, the Ravens just came off a brutal game against the Titans, they hadn't had a week off since week 2 and their front seven are generally up their in age & not particularly fast. (not too mention they were banged up, particularly suggs)

Now I'm not saying it would've definitely been effective, but with all of that info, what Chris Johnson did to them a week before & the fact that they have one of the fastest backs in the league wouldn't you at least make an effort to attack their weakness? It's not they they tried & it didn't work, the outside run was hardly ever called. And this isn't a case of hindsight being 20/20. I was wondering this aloud as I was watching the game unfold.

Fair enough. I think we all can agree we'd like to see the offense perform more effectively this coming season. I think it will, as we don't appear to have the absolute meatgrinder of a schedule this year that we did last. Like I've said, I'm pretty much apathetic toward Arians - I honestly don't care if he stays or goes.

LVSteelersfan
05-20-2009, 03:50 PM
Can't wait to see how Sweed turns out. Arians I am not too happy with because the plays he calls in the red zone totally suck over and over and over. Hopefully it gets better in the red zone because we are stuck with him no matter what.

steelerdave1969
05-20-2009, 04:26 PM
The Steelers will be worlds ahead of the compition if Sweed can contribute as much as Nate Washington did last year. I think that Sweed has proven that he is a tough guy and can block, and I think he showed in college that he can catch, so we will be getting a key contributor this coming season and I for one look very much forward to seeing it.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-20-2009, 04:33 PM
Hmmmm...okay. How about 3rd down conversion percentages under Arians?

2008- Steelers ranked 14th. No great shakes, about average, but still in the top half of the league.
2007- Hmmmmm...we were 103 of 220, or 47%. What! That's 3rd best in the NFL! Must be a typo.

.

So what you are telling us is that in 2007 the Steelers had a great ability to convert on 3rd and short yardage situations?? :screwy:

That is odd...... I seemed to remember watching every game that season and all the complaining was that Faneca was distracted by his contract, Marvel Smith was hurt, Willie Colon was a new starter and Sean Mahan sucked........and we didnt have a back for goal line and short yardage situations.

But, if you have almighty "statistics" that say we suddenly had a great short yardage offense, then it must be true. :rolleyes: :rofl:

Psyychoward86
05-20-2009, 04:41 PM
So what you are telling us is that in 2007 the Steelers had a great ability to convert on 3rd and short yardage situations?? :screwy:

That is odd...... I seemed to remember watching every game that season and all the complaining was that Faneca was distracted by his contract, Marvel Smith was hurt, Willie Colon was a new starter and Sean Mahan sucked........and we didnt have a back for goal line and short yardage situations.

But, if you have almighty "statistics" that say we suddenly had a great short yardage offense, then it must be true. :rolleyes: :rofl:


Gonzo makes a good point. We werent whining about the offense as much back then because overall, it was cranking out the yards better than in '08. Parker went over 1,300 yards that season with only 2 TD's if anyone has forgotten.

lilyoder6
05-20-2009, 04:42 PM
i find it funny.. that sean mahan actually started 1 yr for us.. i think someone from the school of the blind would of done better...

and i doubt all the bickering bout the line in 07 was all 3rd down plays

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-20-2009, 05:04 PM
. We werent whining about the offense as much back then because overall, it was cranking out the yards better than in '08. Parker went over 1,300 yards that season with only 2 TD's if anyone has forgotten.

No, but we were whining about all the sacks given up, all the 3rd and long situations because of those sacks and we were whining about Parker not being a good goal line back, Davenport not being a good goal line back and there being no "I" formation.

Oh yeah, there was also the whining about FWP not being good in short yardage and the ".....but if you take away all of Parkers long runs, he doesnt get much yardage" arguements.

I dont need any statistics to remember that we couldnt convert in short yardage situations in 2007. I dont see it changing this season unless Ryan Powdrell lines up in front of Mendenhall in the I formation and they run behind Hartwig, Urbik and Colon.

steelreserve
05-20-2009, 05:31 PM
No, but we were whining about all the sacks given up, all the 3rd and long situations because of those sacks

Hey, that's not true. I was whining about all the 3rd and long situations because of Parker. And THEN the sacks that came on third and long.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-20-2009, 05:42 PM
Hey, that's not true. I was whining about all the 3rd and long situations because of Parker. And THEN the sacks that came on third and long.

Come on........be honest.

You were whining that his long runs made his runs for 0 yards look good. You wanted a nice even 4.4 yards every time he got the football. :wink: Just like Franco.

paw-n-maul-u
05-20-2009, 11:39 PM
So what you are telling us is that in 2007 the Steelers had a great ability to convert on 3rd and short yardage situations?? :screwy:

That is odd...... I seemed to remember watching every game that season and all the complaining was that Faneca was distracted by his contract, Marvel Smith was hurt, Willie Colon was a new starter and Sean Mahan sucked........and we didnt have a back for goal line and short yardage situations.

But, if you have almighty "statistics" that say we suddenly had a great short yardage offense, then it must be true. :rolleyes: :rofl:

obviously ... you can not read.

even the post you quoted had no mention of short yardage what-so-ever ... your argument does not make sense at all and is totally irrelevant to what you quoted.

The steelers have been more than respectable in third down situations the last couple years. If anything, that is a credit to BA and roethlisberger (for making plays where no plays should be made). The offensive line (or what some bumbling jibber jabber calls the "mach 5" bhahaha:toofunny:) is by far the weakest link of this team.

You cannot deny that. Ben, Parker (until injured), Holmes, and miller had some of their best seasons as pro's in 2007 under Arians. He honestly is not the problem, to disagree is ignorant ...
he does not make Colon fall start every other snap

he doesn't empower sean mahan with enough extra strength to not get consistently bull rushed and run over by the likes of ngata, j williams and the rest of the big crews up front every snap

He doesn't cause simmons and smiths injuries. He works with what he's got.

To nit-pick at particular plays (like the big ben qb draw in the playoffs) is so irrational, and to have your entire bias based on a handful of mishaps (that, if they had worked, would never have been heard of), is just ....

just ....

not worth any more of any ones time.

paw-n-maul-u
05-20-2009, 11:48 PM
Come on........be honest.

You were whining that his long runs made his runs for 0 yards look good. You wanted a nice even 4.4 yards every time he got the football. :wink: Just like Franco.

The first big battle royale I ever got into with someone on a board was about parker and his lack of consistency.

a nice even 4.4? why are you talking down so sarcastically to someone when obviously someone smarter then you in the front office thought it was important enough to draft a first round RB ... oh and bring in Mewelde Moore, oh and draft Frank Summers (who I think it is safe to say is far more of a "consistent" back than a "game changing" back) ...

Even with parkers stellar year in 2007 ... and ESPECIALLY in 2005 ... dear god, I don't even want to relive the statistics that I saw with his run deviation and how inconsistent he was ... 35 yards ...-1 ... 2 ... 1 ... 0 ...-1 ... 0 ... for a whopping average of 4 point something.

Sorry, I would trade ten willie parkers for one marian barber all day every day.

He got his big chance here

He got his first SB ring here

He set an NFL SB record here

He had his first 100 and 200+ yard games here

He would have (baring injuries) made his first probowl here

He won his SECOND SB here ....

... and he'll get his next big payday somewhere else.

Cheppy
05-20-2009, 11:52 PM
He honestly is not the problem, to disagree is ignorant ...

That's cute..


he does not make Colon fall start every other snap

he doesn't empower sean mahan with enough extra strength to not get consistently bull rushed and run over by the likes of ngata, j williams and the rest of the big crews up front every snap

He is supposed to prepare the offensive line for what the defense brings.. Not saying the o-line is a strength or anything but many times last season they looked more confused than physically overmatched.. You were saying something about ignorance again?


To nit-pick at particular plays (like the big ben qb draw in the playoffs) is so irrational, and to have your entire bias based on a handful of mishaps (that, if they had worked, would never have been heard of), is just ....

just ....

not worth any more of any ones time.

It's not particular "plays", it's a whole season to reference upon. You'd think someone who passionately proclaims that they're not ignorant (yeah, that's not a red flag or anything) would know this.

Then there's reality..

revefsreleets
05-21-2009, 09:30 AM
So what you are telling us is that in 2007 the Steelers had a great ability to convert on 3rd and short yardage situations?? :screwy:

That is odd...... I seemed to remember watching every game that season and all the complaining was that Faneca was distracted by his contract, Marvel Smith was hurt, Willie Colon was a new starter and Sean Mahan sucked........and we didnt have a back for goal line and short yardage situations.

But, if you have almighty "statistics" that say we suddenly had a great short yardage offense, then it must be true. :rolleyes: :rofl:

Amazing. You JUST said "show me where Arians has had success on 3rd down's" and I did! I showed a stat that showed we were 3rd in the league two years ago on 3rd down conversions! We converted nealy 50%! That's an amazing stat! Show's how successful our offense was in a KEY statistical category. And your response? Claim that the stat is meaningless? Are you effing kidding me? You are now trying to assert that your fuzzy and biased memory is more solid than black-and-white statistical facts?

Dude, you've got to back down on this one. It was asked, and it was answered, and you got this one wrong.

Or could it be that you actually think he had more success overall on third and long than he did on 3rd and short? That as the distance on 3rd down increased, so did Arians success rate? He was better on, say, 3rd and 4 than 3rd and 1? I absolutely guarantee you if he did, it'd buck every stat and trend ever, and we would have heard about it.

Look, we get it. A significant percentage of Steelers fans hate the OC. That's certainly nothing new. They hated Whis. They hated Mularkey. They hated Chan Gailey. They hated Kevin Gilbride. When we ran the ball, we didn't pass enough. When we passed a lot, we didn't run enough.

Many Steelers fans are petulant spoiled brats. They are never happy. They always want more. They complain long and loud and blame the coaches when things don't go well (when often it's lack of execution, or even just solid play from the opposition). We won the Super Bowl? Eh, who cares, we only finished 14th over in total offense, so we suck. We had the worst SB winning line ever? Blame the OC because it's clearly HIS fault that enough attention hasn't been paid to the OL.

It's silly and it gets tedious when you hear it year after year after year after year. The people complaining change, but the tired old complaints stay exactly the same...

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-21-2009, 10:38 AM
Amazing. You JUST said "show me where Arians has had success on 3rd down's" and I did! I showed a stat that showed we were 3rd in the league two years ago on 3rd down conversions! We converted nealy 50%! That's an amazing stat! Show's how successful our offense was in a KEY statistical category. And your response? Claim that the stat is meaningless? Are you effing kidding me? You are now trying to assert that your fuzzy and biased memory is more solid than black-and-white statistical facts?

Dude, you've got to back down on this one. It was asked, and it was answered, and you got this one wrong.

...

I have repeatedly said that I like the way Arians calls a game and think he is creative. I have also said repeatedly that he has never had an offense in the NFL that was productive on short yardage. I NEVER SAID "SHOW ME WHERE ARIANS HAS SUCCESS ON 3RD DOWNS".

For the record, here is what I said, verbatim. show me a Bruce Arians offense at any point in his career in the NFL, that has been successful on 3rd and short or 4th and short situations

Stats can lie and you know it. You may want to say my memory of the 2007 season is fuzzy and that is fine. But, I am sure the rest of the dedicated fans on this board can remember 2 seasons ago when we could not get the tough yards either.

Again, your arguements consist of 2 main things. 1. Manipulating statistics to best assert your opinion. 2. Attempting to put words in my (and other posters) mouth to rebutt my assertions.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-21-2009, 10:52 AM
obviously ... you can not read.

even the post you quoted had no mention of short yardage what-so-ever ... your argument does not make sense at all and is totally irrelevant to what you quoted.



Thank you skippy for also not reading. If you too the time to read back in this thread you would see that my opinion is that Arians is a good OC, is creative and calls a balanced and creative game.....but, his offensed have struggled to get the 3rd down and short yardage throughout his career.

Revs posted stats about 3rd down conversion in 2007, which we were undoubtely successful at, but the reality was most of those were not short yardage situations. Its why the talk of the 2008 offseason was all about getting a short yardage RB or goal line RB and that Mendenhall could be that.

Again, thanks for your input, but I can read quite fine thanks. Revs and I are having a worthy debate and while he and I disagree on some points, I can respect his ability to stay with the topic and not jump in without knowing the entire topic.....like others.

revefsreleets
05-21-2009, 11:00 AM
I have repeatedly said that I like the way Arians calls a game and think he is creative. I have also said repeatedly that he has never had an offense in the NFL that was productive on short yardage. I NEVER SAID "SHOW ME WHERE ARIANS HAS SUCCESS ON 3RD DOWNS".

For the record, here is what I said, verbatim. show me a Bruce Arians offense at any point in his career in the NFL, that has been successful on 3rd and short or 4th and short situations

Stats can lie and you know it. You may want to say my memory of the 2007 season is fuzzy and that is fine. But, I am sure the rest of the dedicated fans on this board can remember 2 seasons ago when we could not get the tough yards either.

Again, your arguements consist of 2 main things. 1. Manipulating statistics to best assert your opinion. 2. Attempting to put words in my (and other posters) mouth to rebutt my assertions.

This is common sense.

Are you stating that you believe that Arians had MORE success on 3rd and medium and long than he did on 3rd and short? I guarantee that's not the case. It probably reads something like:

3rd and 1-3: 75%
3rd and 3-10: 30%
3rd and 10+: 10%

To equal an overall stat of 47% conversions on 3rd down.

You DO understand simple statistics and how they work don't you?

The question was show me a Bruce Arians offense at any point in his career in the NFL, that has been successful on 3rd and short or 4th and short situations.

And I did. I'll do ya one better. In 2007 we were tied for 8th best on 4th down conversions with a 54% conversion rate. Are you gonna try and tell me those were 4th and longs? We were 7 of 13, and I bet 12 of those were 4th and 1's.

Dude, back down on this one. You're wrong and the stats DON'T lie.



And then this: Revs posted stats about 3rd down conversion in 2007, which we were undoubtely successful at, but the reality was most of those were not short yardage situations. Its why the talk of the 2008 offseason was all about getting a short yardage RB or goal line RB and that Mendenhall could be that.

I call bullshit. BS BS BS. You do NOT have a 47% conversion rate on 3rd down by converting 3rd and longs, you do it by converting MOSTLY high percentage short yardage 3rd downs and the stat is mitigated by failing to convert the low percentage 3rd and 6 and longers, which I guarantee we had plenty of as well.

This is a losing fight. Abandon this Titanic of an argument now...

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-21-2009, 11:15 AM
Revs, if you show me a link to that 4th down conversion rate of 54% I would be interested to see it.

I DO realize how simple statistics work. I took a few Stats classes in college and understand that "The average human being has 1 breast and 1 testicle, statistically speaking". My prof for intro stats said that.

I am not going to just take your extrapolation of 3rd down success to mean short yardage success when nobody was lauding the Steelers great ability to convert short yardage situations in 2007. In fact, just about every fan and analyst said we need to get better in that regard.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-21-2009, 11:26 AM
Here is a link to a website you have referenced in the past Revs. It hilights a week 9, 2007 game agains the Browns and shows the Steelers inability to run in short yardage situations.

Here is a comment that I thought was consistent with the entire 2007 season:

We’re ranked #2 in the NFL in rushing but it seems that against “good teams” or “good defenses” we struggle to run the ball at times.

Also, in key situations like I pointed out here…gaolline, important short yardage situations, etc… they seem to come up short or choose to pass the ball instead of run.

http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=1691

I dont entirely blame BA for this. I think one issue might be that he has had coach Zeirline as his O line coach wherever he goes in the NFL and have yet to see Coach Z have a strong line anywhere.

revefsreleets
05-21-2009, 11:43 AM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STAT S&season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=DOWN_4TH_PERCENTAGE&d-447263-n=1

54%. From NFL.com. It has an 11 next to us, but several teams are tied above us. We're actually ranked 8th overall (and in a tie there)


I am not denying that we have struggled at times converting 3rd downs, particularly last year. But, overall, as a trend, we are not as horrible as you'd like to think.

The REAL PROBLEM is you don't like passing on 3rd and short, and you don't really care whether it works or not. Fine. But you cannot deny the stats. 3rd and long is a lower percentage play than 3rd and 1. That's undeniable.


Kirwan has a chart on conversion percentages by distance here. I suggest you take a look at it. 3rd at 1? 67%. 3rd and 10 or more? 20%.

JUST as I suggested.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80ae2bf7&template=with-video&confirm=true

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-21-2009, 01:00 PM
I am not denying that we have struggled at times converting 3rd downs, particularly last year. But, overall, as a trend, we are not as horrible as you'd like to think.

The REAL PROBLEM is you don't like passing on 3rd and short, and you don't really care whether it works or not. Fine. But you cannot deny the stats. 3rd and long is a lower percentage play than 3rd and 1. That's undeniable.
url]

Revs, I love the civil debate rather than what normally goes on.

I know the 07 conversion rated was solid, but I also know we were not strong in short yardage situations running the football and often had to pass which was not that successful in short yardage situations.

its not that I dont like passing on 3rd down...its that I dont like that we HAVE TO PASS on 3rd down. Yes, I am a 30 year fan of the Steelers and a former O lineman and coach. I know the guys up front would like nothing more to pound the ball on 3rd and 2 from the I formation and impose their will in gaining a 1st down.

That has never been the strength of a BA run offense and maybe its the lack of a true FB, maybe its the fact that Zeirline is always his O line coach. We can debate that all day and not accomplish anything.

YOu categorize me as a BA hater and I am not. I appreciate his playcalling ability and play design creativity. I just dont like that he hasnt ever had offenses that are tough and can get the tough yards. I honestly hope Urbik and Colon become a nasty pair on the right side and hope they get a chance to gain the tough yards..........but history doesnt seem to indicate that.

revefsreleets
05-21-2009, 01:02 PM
We drafted a road grading G from a run-first team in the 3rd.

We drafted a gigantic monster of a RB who specializes in short-yardage in the 5th.

We'll be committed to running the ball more, and converting 3rd and short by doing so, next year. You can bank it.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-21-2009, 01:10 PM
We drafted a road grading G from a run-first team in the 3rd.

We drafted a gigantic monster of a RB who specializes in short-yardage in the 5th.

We'll be committed to running the ball more, and converting 3rd and short by doing so, next year. You can bank it.

I hope you are right.

triphahn
05-21-2009, 07:08 PM
Damn that was a bad ass debate. Awesome.

SteelerFanInATL
05-22-2009, 07:50 AM
I'm so tired of hearing about this. The only reason this comes up is because he droped a pass when he was wide open in the playoffs that would have clinched the game. Key thing about that was it was on NATIONAL TV. No one ever mentions the catch he made after that play on third down. As he was moving to his right comming across the middle, he caught a pass that was thrown behind him while sliding to the ground. Great thing about the play, it didn't hit him in the chest it was all hand. Jerry Rice, I say again, Jerry Rice had butterfingers his first year in the NFL.

SteelerFanInATL
05-22-2009, 07:57 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/177751-bruce-arians-love-him-or-hate-him

FWP is not the answer for short yardage which is a reflection on why we drafted 2 RB in the last 2 yrs

BubbyBrister
05-22-2009, 08:56 AM
Recall Burress' first year. Recall his first catch.:banging: Sweed isn't a bonehead. And I think he has the tools to be another Burress for us, but with a great additional feature - a functioning brain. :chuckle:

at least sweed hasn't spiked a ball without being downed for a first down catch.

revefsreleets
05-22-2009, 10:41 AM
Ahhhh...plexispike!

tony hipchest
05-22-2009, 02:28 PM
i love me a sweed debate almost as much as an arians debate.

sorry, im a bit strapped for time so in a nutshell, i think in 4 years we will look back and see that sweed was easilly one of the top 5 wr's selected in his class and well worth the late 2nd round pick we used on him.

landing him and mendenhall will be seen as a long term coup d'etas.

couldnt really study all the muddied 3rd down stats but a quick search (i.e. atlanta dan telling me what to post) revealed this informative research done by a colts fan, with great sortable charts-

3rd Down Offense: NFL Version

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/1/26/737395/3rd-down-offense-nfl-versi

see for yourselves and then draw your own conclusions. here are some interresting conclusions from the OP-

The best team at converting 3rd and short runs? The 0-16 Lions. At 82.4%, they were best in the league. The other interesting thing about this situation is the Titans finished 14th, and the Giants finished 18th, much lower than expected.

On 3rd and Middle, the team with the fewest rush attempts? The Steelers. That is very surprising, and should be noted going into this weekend's game. Impress your friends when they don't run the ball in this situation.
I mentioned in my last article that I thought the Colts easily would have had the best 3rd and long pass conversion percentage, but I was wrong. The Patriots actually had the exact same percentage (27/70). Interestingly enough, the 3rd best team? Matt Ryan and the Falcons. Never would have expected that.
3 of the 4 teams that played in the Championship games finished in the top 5 of most 3rd down attempts (Ravens, Steelers, and Eagles).
While the Colts destroyed every other team in 3rd down conversions (50.2%), the Saints and Patriots finished very close to each other for 2nd and 3rd (43.6% and 43.2%).

my own conclusions from the stats breaking down pass/run, in short, middle, long situations is that the steelers will not run the ball on 3rd and 4 or longer. when they do, they fail.

another conclusion is that even when they succeed .640 of the time on 3rd and short, they still elect to pass the ball more often than they run.

seems to be a situation of arians knowing he has no short ame to work with, as opposed to the steelers bein average, or above averae as some of the stats would suggest.

other observation is just like p. manning, i remember big ben being one of the tops in the league in converting 3rd and long passing attempts. the numbers in the chart support this.

revefsreleets
05-25-2009, 04:30 PM
Bravo! That's spot on.

Arians knows his offensive strengths and weaknesses better than we do. It's not "stubbornness", actually probably quite the contrary. He works with what he has and tries to make the best of the situation.

thumper
05-25-2009, 04:40 PM
Bravo! That's spot on.

Arians knows his offensive strengths and weaknesses better than we do. It's not "stubbornness", actually probably quite the contrary. He works with what he has and tries to make the best of the situation.

OK, that's nonsense. What does running in a single back formation, up the middle, have anything to do with "working with what he has?" Nothing. He chooses that shit formation because he likes it - but one problem - it sucks and we can't run worth crap using it.

Pgh was 23rd in the rush last year. 23rd. That is garbage.

tony hipchest
05-25-2009, 11:21 PM
yeah, lets be real here and not pat arians on the back too much.

he did a fine job of laying down in the bed he made.

it is no secret that tomlin is NOT a micromanager, and he gave both arians and lebeau plenty of leash to run the system they wanted to implement.

this worked to perfection with lebeau and the defense.

however, tomlin stepped in and pretty much directed that the steelers would get back to the smashmouth running game.

tomlin gave arians the ingredients to run his system, and what was passable as chicken salad still had a hint of flavor of chicken shit.

its no suprise that players like russell and davenport are gone.

while players like kreider and kuhn were shown the door, it is no suprise we are bringing in new players to potentially replace them.

im pretty sure arians was on the outside looking in when tomlin and colbert drafted the likes of mendenhall, and summers, while giving powdrell a chance.

if arians offense is gonna land us stallwarts such as spaeth, mchugh, and davis, then i am glad to see tomlin pull in the reigns.

parker essentially called out the offensive playcalling. whale tomlin put parker in his place, its no suprise parker was named the team captain the following week.

its no suprise that tomlin came out the week before the browns and the 1st playoff game with the chargers and pretty much told arians what type of game he was gonna call.

theres a definite message here. it is either tomlins way or the highway.

to this point, i will give arians credit for being smart enough to figure that out.

other than that, all credit goes to tomlin and lebeau for this teams success.

arians is a fine coordinator but i feel he needs a strong hand to tell him what to do and when to do it.

i couldnt ever see him as a head coach in this league.

Rotorhead
05-26-2009, 03:45 AM
It is funny everyone arguing about BA . . . I am absolutely not a fan of him as I feel he makes some really boneheaded calls (QB draw at the end of the game in our last playoff loss comes to mind) and I feel we could better use our personnel to improve our running game with a fullback. But we all know his offensive philosophy is more pass oriented, and I feel as we get better line protection and personnel to match his philosophy our offense will get better. I think our personnel were not built to suit his offensive style and we are working on that now. I really wish we would use our TE's more (it was the same with Cowher) but last season we just needed them to block and couldnt. I will be one of the first to admit I would like to see a different OC, however I cant argue with his success, we do have another ring afterall.

revefsreleets
05-26-2009, 02:02 PM
AGAIN, in his defense, if the Steelers don't like his system, then there's a super simple solution: Fire him. There have been some pretty good OC candidates that have popped loose in the last few years, and the Steelers had ample opportunity to hire one of them, but they've stuck with BA.

HIS offense runs a lot of H-back stuff, does run a lot of single back sets, and relies more on his WR's to do some blocking. Calling the single back "garbage" is interesting, though, as the single back set is very much in vogue throughout the NFL right now. It's a pretty versatile formation.

We were 23rd rushing last year because we lack the "Thunder" part of the "Thunder/Lightning" combo, and we have a pretty average OL.

MasterOfPuppets
05-26-2009, 03:08 PM
i've got no problem with the single back formation....IF ITS WORKING !!! ......i mean, if you run out of it 15 consecutive times for 15 yds ......then stick a fullback in for 3 straight attempts and get 15 yds ...... maybe its time to change your game plan, or philosophy alltogether. :doh:

revefsreleets
05-26-2009, 04:00 PM
BA DID change his gameplan on occasion to include a FB. He also runs empty sets and pro formations and I-formations and....

I don't even know why i bother sometimes...

scsteeler
05-26-2009, 04:18 PM
BA DID change his gameplan on occasion to include a FB. He also runs empty sets and pro formations and I-formations and....

I don't even know why i bother sometimes...


If you look at what BA has done as the OC he has adjusted to what he needs to do to make the offense effective. Most of us armchair coordinators can always say what needs to be done because we don't have to be blamed for the results. I just think you are going to have those the just don't like BA and those that understand that a lot of the things that are called are done so to take advantage of what is given to us. Last year Passing was needed in order to make the offense go.

I for one like Bruce A. and hope he is with us a few more years.

And yes why do you bother it is a never ending debate.

revefsreleets
05-26-2009, 04:30 PM
I have a 6 time Super Bowl winning organization on my side. THAT'S why I bother...

MasterOfPuppets
05-26-2009, 04:51 PM
BA DID change his gameplan on occasion to include a FB. He also runs empty sets and pro formations and I-formations and....

I don't even know why i bother sometimes...
but yet he always reverts back to what wasn't working. its like the no huddle offense.... they have success with it for 3 or 4 plays, then STOP using it .....:doh:

revefsreleets
05-26-2009, 05:20 PM
That's his offensive strategy. That's what he brings to the table. Just like Bill Walsh was a West Coast offense guy, Arians has "his" offense.

If the Steelers didn't like it, they should never have hired him. If they continued to dislike it, they should have fired him.

They have not.

Again, this comes down to the very simple question of do the Steelers know what they are doing or do some message board posters know better?

Cheppy
05-26-2009, 05:25 PM
I thought I heard it all with the Sporting News' recent qb rankings. But never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd hear Bruce Arians being mentioned in the same breath as Bill Walsh. Pure insanity:laughing:

lilyoder6
05-26-2009, 06:03 PM
walsh's offense got them 5 rings... BA offense needed a great defense, and a great last drive to win 1 SB

revefsreleets
05-26-2009, 06:13 PM
I thought I heard it all with the Sporting News' recent qb rankings. But never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd hear Bruce Arians being mentioned in the same breath as Bill Walsh. Pure insanity:laughing:

Bill Walsh resurrected and walking the Steelers sidelines would have netted them no more success than Arians has.

He'd have the same tools to work with, and would also be handicapped by the fact that HE'D also be running an offense that wasn't perfectly suited to HIS philosophy.

Chep, you're a good antagonist in that you're persistent, but you're really a one trick pony when it comes to actual...you know....um....CONTENT.

Why don't you spend some time coming up with some real substance and come back at me later? Your very boring and singular angle of attack is growing uber boring and tedious.

Cheppy
05-26-2009, 06:24 PM
Bill Walsh resurrected and walking the Steelers sidelines would have netted them no more success than Arians has.

:laughing: (wipes the tears rolling down my face)

He'd have the same tools to work with, and would also be handicapped by the fact that HE'D also be running an offense that wasn't perfectly suited to HIS philosophy.

There's also the little fact that he's genuinely the greatest offensive coordinator in history & a bonafide football genius.

Chep, you're a good antagonist in that you're persistent, but you're really a one trick pony when it comes to actual...you know....um....CONTENT.

Why don't you spend some time coming up with some real substance and come back at me later? Your very boring and singular angle of attack is growing uber boring and tedious.

You're not boring in the sense that you're narrowminded thinking is bad comedy fodder so I'll give you that. I'm not out looking to make fun of you at all but it takes minimal effort when we've gotten to a point where you put Bruce Arians on Bill Walsh's level. (:laughing:) Really, anyone could've said that & I would've said the same thing. But what do you know, Revs busts out another gem.

scsteeler
05-26-2009, 06:41 PM
I thought I heard it all with the Sporting News' recent qb rankings. But never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd hear Bruce Arians being mentioned in the same breath as Bill Walsh. Pure insanity:laughing:


If you look at some of the Old 49er games you will see that Montana took a beating in a lot of their wins and the run game was shut down and the passing game was the key to opening up the run.

Cheppy
05-26-2009, 07:33 PM
If you look at some of the Old 49er games you will see that Montana took a beating in a lot of their wins and the run game was shut down and the passing game was the key to opening up the run.

The most Montana was sacked in a single season was 35 times but that's neither here nor there. I think you're mistaking me for someone who doesn't advocate the philosophy of passing first to open up the run. The offense of the Niners during Walsh's tenure as coach is one of the top 5 offenses of all-time (at least) & one of the biggest reasons why was because of Walsh's innovations in passing offense. But it's not the philsophy that made Walsh great for if I'm not mistaken Sid Gillman was the first to employ that strategy & philsophy. It was how that philsophy was realized & executed.

By simplifying his playbook he was able to get his players,specifically his recievers, to focus on their route running & timing more than trying to digest a new set of plays in any given week. Thus making it easier for the offense as a whole to operate as a cohesive unit. Considering the man's success & what he contributed to the game of football it's absolutely absurd to insinuate Arians is somehow on that guy's level.

And I'll tell you what, Revs says that the Steelers don't have the players to fit in Walsh's philosophy & I disagree. Santonio's a burner & is excellent after the catch. It's well documented how savvy Hines is with the ball in his hands. Heath Miller is a great blocker (key to the west coast offense) & a more than capable reciever. Both Parker & Moore are fast & when utilized in the passing attack are dangerous options. (don't know enough about mendenhall yet) The Steelers sound like a perfect fit for Walsh actually:laughing:

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not campaigning for the west coast offense to come to Pittburgh or anything. But would I feel more confident in the offense if Bill Walsh (i can't believe this is even being discussed:laughing:) was the coordinator? That's like asking which would you prefer, getting a hummer from Liv Tyler or eating a booger sandwich.

We should create a poll & see where people stand on this utterly absurd subject.

Cheppy
05-26-2009, 08:07 PM
And I'll tell you what, Revs says that the Steelers don't have the players to fit in Walsh's philosophy & I disagree. Santonio's a burner & is excellent after the catch. It's well documented how savvy Hines is with the ball in his hands. Heath Miller is a great blocker (key to the west coast offense) & a more than capable reciever. Both Parker & Moore are fast & when utilized in the passing attack are dangerous options. (don't know enough about mendenhall yet) The Steelers sound like a perfect fit for Walsh actually:laughing:

And to further elaborate on that, I think utilizing the screen & short passes (both of which being staples of walsh's & both of which i know myself & many other steeler fans longed for many times last season) would've helped mask the difficulties the o-line had. Instead of dropping back & trying to figure out who's coming & from where they'd have more of an opportunity to hit people & less of an opportunity to contribute to Ben having a shorter career than he should. (basically have them think less)

Vincent
05-26-2009, 08:14 PM
We have the players. We have the QB. We lack an OC.

Ben plays what he calls "back yard football". So design the offense around a quick catch and the yards after the catch.

This year we have the ingredients for a West Coast offense and a pony backfield. We should be putting up 50 points a game. And with our defense, we should be 16-0. Anything less, put on the OC. No excuses.

tony hipchest
05-27-2009, 01:56 AM
WOW!

bill walsh being sunken down to the level of bruce arians??? :laughing:

i will MOST DEFINITELY need a map for that one. :rofl:

i wouldnt have batted an eye if norv turner were fired as the HC of the chargers and subsequently hired as the replacement for bruce arians.

(keep in mind, i am not an arians basher, although im sure some [deflection *cough*] will have something to say to the contrary).

turner isnt even on the same level of walsh, but what turner was able to do, was take the worst OL in the ENTIRE LEAGUE (not supposed worst OL to ever win a SB) and turn LT into a superstar.

"what???" "huh???"

tony hipchest
05-27-2009, 02:04 AM
Again, this comes down to the very simple question of do the Steelers know what they are doing or do some message board posters know better?you obviously know how to better run the governement right? lets not be hypcritical here.

the simple answer is NOT firing arians. that is the difficult solution.

the simple answer is the HC tightening the reigns ans showing the OC how things will be done (which is what we are seeing).

this is tomlins team, not arians.

he was given his long leash, but now he is being told where he can piss.

he is a good OC for the steelers... he just needs the proper guidance and directive.

tomlin is a very young and inexperienced HC who is quickly learning how to deal with this.

i have faith in tomlin, and i have faith in the rooneys. i have faith in lebeau.

i do not have faith in arians running his own show.

Cheppy
05-27-2009, 02:10 AM
WOW!

bill walsh being sunken down to the level of bruce arians??? :laughing:

It seems his delusions know no bounds. Amazing...

DACEB
05-27-2009, 06:52 AM
the simple answer is the HC tightening the reigns and showing the OC how things will be done (which is what we are seeing).

he was given his long leash, but now he is being told where he can piss.

he is a good OC for the steelers... he just needs the proper guidance and directive.

Illustrated by the changes in the offense toward the end of last season, orchestrated by Tomlin.

X-Terminator
05-27-2009, 07:02 AM
Nice job turning a thread about Limas Sweed into yet another free-for-all about Bruce Arians. Don't you people get tired of talking about this day after day after day? Sheesh! :doh:

DACEB
05-27-2009, 07:17 AM
Nice job turning a thread about Limas Sweed into yet another free-for-all about Bruce Arians. Don't you people get tired of talking about this day after day after day? Sheesh! :doh:

Hmmm, I wonder who was the first to inject BAs name into this thread??

GBMelBlount
05-27-2009, 08:50 AM
Anyway, I think Sweed has all of the physicality and talent to be a great NFL receiver.....it's just a matter of whether he makes the transition.

I personally feel that once he learns the system and develops a little more confidence, we will have a top shelf trio of receivers.

HometownGal
05-27-2009, 10:00 AM
OK folks - this thread has been hijacked to hell and back and we're getting away from the original topic (gee - what a shocker around here, huh? :rolleyes:)

This hijacking is brutally unfair to mesa who started this thread with intentions of a good discussion on Limas Sweed, but it is creeping into yet another flame war and the same redundant drivel.

Arians sucks.

No he doesn't.

Yes he does.

No he doesn't.

You suck for thinking Arians doesn't suck.

Well you suck for thinking I suck for thinking Arians doesn't suck.

:willy::willy::willy:

One more mention of Arians in this thread and it's going to be locked.

DACEB
05-27-2009, 10:09 AM
OK folks - this thread has been hijacked to hell and back and we're getting away from the original topic.

Hmmm, I wonder who was the first to inject BAs name into this thread??

One more mention of Arians in this thread and it's going to be locked.

Typical

fansince'76
05-27-2009, 10:12 AM
Typical

Sure, it's all directed at you. "Typical" indeed. :coffee:

HometownGal
05-27-2009, 10:16 AM
Typical

Typical what??? That we're damned sick and tired of perfectly good threads around here being ruined by hijacks that turn into flame fests?

DACEB
05-27-2009, 10:30 AM
Typical what??? That we're damned sick and tired of perfectly good threads around here being ruined by hijacks that turn into flame fests?

If your so sick and tired of it, then do something about it. It's plain to see who hijacked the thread, a person of your ilk.

Do something about the hijacker, not the one's that responded to the hijacker. Pretty simple!!

Like I said typical!!

fansince'76
05-27-2009, 10:31 AM
If your so sick and tired of it, then do something about it. It's plain to see who hijacked the thread, a person of your ilk.

Do something about the hijacker, not the one's that responded to the hijacker. Pretty simple!!

Like I said typical!!

"Ma, dem mean ol' mods are pickin' on me again!" :binky:

You have the "victim" bit down to an art form. But then, you always have. :coffee:

Again, "typical" indeed.

HometownGal
05-27-2009, 10:35 AM
If your so sick and tired of it, then do something about it. It's plain to see who hijacked the thread, a person of your ilk.

Do something about the hijacker, not the one's that responded to the hijacker. Pretty simple!!

Like I said typical!!

A person of my "ilk"? Are you freakin' serious? What an ignorant thing to say - something I really didn't expect from you.

OK - maybe I should ban him and everyone who kept snowballing this thread out of control after him, which would include you. Fair enough? :rolleyes:

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-27-2009, 10:40 AM
If I had to quess...I would say that the three starting WR's at the beginning of the year are going to be Ward, Holmes and McDonald. I think Sweed is coming along...but I also think that Tomlin knows how to light a fire under players butts to get them motivated. Sweed will answer the challenge and be starting by mid-season.

thoughts?

DACEB
05-27-2009, 11:02 AM
If I had to quess...I would say that the three starting WR's at the beginning of the year are going to be Ward, Holmes and McDonald. I think Sweed is coming along...but I also think that Tomlin knows how to light a fire under players butts to get them motivated. Sweed will answer the challenge and be starting by mid-season.

thoughts?

Agreed, the kid's a player, no doubt in my mind. Just can't come quick enough.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-27-2009, 11:03 AM
If I had to quess...I would say that the three starting WR's at the beginning of the year are going to be Ward, Holmes and McDonald. I think Sweed is coming along...but I also think that Tomlin knows how to light a fire under players butts to get them motivated. Sweed will answer the challenge and be starting by mid-season.

thoughts?

I think McDonald will be the #4 guy on the depth chart. Despite what some think of Sweed, I believe that he has the skills that made him an 2nd round pick, a year under the Steelers system and better size/speed than McDonald.

The only thing McDonald has on Sweed that would vault him ahead on the depth chart is experience and I think with Ward and Holmes solidified as the top receivers, its better to put talent ahead of experience at the #3 spot.

revefsreleets
05-27-2009, 12:40 PM
I have McD being #3 all year (barring injury). He's a proven possession-type receiver and that's actually somethuing we have really lacked at the #3 spot for quite some time. He's also shined on pretty bad teams...I'm anxious to see what he can do on a solid football team.

No offense to Sweed, but I just don't think he'll have the focus necessary to be a "go to" guy in the NFL.

(W/o mentioning names, I wasn't EVER saying that our OC was as good as Bill Walsh, simply stating that ANY OC would be challenged given the fact that he's asked to run power football with no power back and a subpar OL)

Texasteel
05-27-2009, 03:26 PM
I disagree, rev. Sweed has already shown that he can get open, wide open at times. I've watched him at Texas often enough to know that what we saw last year as far as his catching the ball, was not typical Sweed. He doesn't have the greatest hands in the world, but he is a lot better than we saw last year.

I think he will progress, and probably take the #3 spot fairly early.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-27-2009, 05:33 PM
I disagree, rev. Sweed has already shown that he can get open, wide open at times. I've watched him at Texas often enough to know that what we saw last year as far as his catching the ball, was not typical Sweed. He doesn't have the greatest hands in the world, but he is a lot better than we saw last year.

I think he will progress, and probably take the #3 spot fairly early.

I hope so too Tex. I watched several Texas games during Sweed's career and he isnt #6 on the all time Texas receiving list because he cant catch a football.

I also like the fact that when he gets in the endzone he normally just dropped the football and acted like he's been there before.
Here is a video from him in 2006. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBK10JNtH6E

lamberts-lost-tooth
05-27-2009, 07:26 PM
I think McDonald will be the #4 guy on the depth chart. Despite what some think of Sweed, I believe that he has the skills that made him an 2nd round pick, a year under the Steelers system and better size/speed than McDonald.

The only thing McDonald has on Sweed that would vault him ahead on the depth chart is experience and I think with Ward and Holmes solidified as the top receivers, its better to put talent ahead of experience at the #3 spot.

I actualy agree...I just think on day one...McDonald will be #3. and Sweed will "earn it" by mid season...making McDonald the #4 the rest of the year.

The one factor that I think may decide who is #3 on that first day, is Sweeds dramatics AFTER he missed the "big pass". Even with his talent, he is going to have to prove to Tomlin that he is mature enough to be #3...and that isnt going to be an overnight thing.

The Duke
05-27-2009, 07:29 PM
I think Sweed is coming along...but I also think that Tomlin knows how to light a fire under players butts to get them motivated. Sweed will answer the challenge and be starting by mid-season.

Yep, that sounds like tomlin. Let him still have to fight for it during the season, and at the same time we have a great #4 option for ben

McDonald's signing was brilliant!! can't believe he was a FA so long

Cheppy
05-27-2009, 11:27 PM
(W/o mentioning names, I wasn't EVER saying that our OC was as good as Bill Walsh, simply stating that ANY OC would be challenged given the fact that he's asked to run power football with no power back and a subpar OL)

Bill Walsh resurrected and walking the Steelers sidelines would have netted them no more success than the steelers offensive coordinator has. (see what i did there)

Sure, sure...

Anyways, it's not just the drop in the AFC Championship game that has me feeling a little leary about Sweed this coming season. It's all the reports from practice last year about him dropping passes on a regular basis. But with the signing of Mcdonald I'm not worried about the 3rd reciever spot. From the few times I've seen him play & everything I've read about him Mcdonald seems to be a better version of Cedrick Wilson. I can see him becoming a steady, positive force thus holding onto the 3rd reciever spot for the whole season.

revefsreleets
05-28-2009, 10:16 AM
I disagree, rev. Sweed has already shown that he can get open, wide open at times. I've watched him at Texas often enough to know that what we saw last year as far as his catching the ball, was not typical Sweed. He doesn't have the greatest hands in the world, but he is a lot better than we saw last year.

I think he will progress, and probably take the #3 spot fairly early.

My whole point is this: McD won't drop anything thrown his way. He's that type of receiver. Sweed can run around wide open all day long, but if he's going to drop half the balls tossed his way, what good would it do.

Kid is loaded with talent, but the jury is still out.

Psyychoward86
05-28-2009, 05:38 PM
Starting by midseason? I doubt that, but i can see him being a strong #3 receiver by week one. The starting lineup never seems to change for us in the middle of the season unless someone gets hurt. Continuity is golden, remember? :wink:

BlockMonsta
05-29-2009, 05:46 AM
He can get behind the D no question, the only question is his hands. But looking at what he did while at Texas I dont see why he wont become a great player in the NFL.

Texasteel
05-29-2009, 06:24 AM
My whole point is this: McD won't drop anything thrown his way. He's that type of receiver. Sweed can run around wide open all day long, but if he's going to drop half the balls tossed his way, what good would it do.

Kid is loaded with talent, but the jury is still out.

Point taken rev. and I can't argue with your logic. I do how ever still have a lot of faith in Sweed. This year will tell us a lot about this kid.

steelerdave1969
05-29-2009, 07:12 AM
I also think that Sweed will do fine. He is very talented and has the speed and seperation that it takes to get open in the NFL. With the size and atheleticism he has I think it is all up to him to fulfill his dreams.. I think that if he comes out and makes a good start vs the Titans on opening night then his season is gonna be a good/decent one for the Steelers no.3 guy

Aussie_steeler
05-29-2009, 07:32 AM
I hope so too Tex. I watched several Texas games during Sweed's career and he isnt #6 on the all time Texas receiving list because he cant catch a football.


Lets remember that these stats were compiled with an undiagnosed astigmatism. You go into your first nfl season suddenly with corrected vision which means that you see the world differently (your depth perception is suddenly very different) . Then you need to make further adjustments to secondaries that are of a much higher standard and speed than college ball. I would say that Sweed was hearing footsteps due to a reduction in his own confidence.

I guess Sweed was a little more out of his comfort zone than those days back in texas.

We are now 10 months down the line. Sweed would now be totally comfortable with the way he visually perceives the world and the hand eye co-ordination is back in sync. He practices daily against the best defence the modern era has seen. His confidence should be skyrocketing.

I personally think this all equates to a second year wide receiver who should be totally adjusted to life in the NFL and he would be the first to admit that there are no more excuses / reasons for some uncharacteristic plays .

I am guessing that Limas Sweed is physically operating at close to maximum potential. A couple of good catches under pressure and he will be off and running.

Now he just needs to work his way up the depth charts over the next few years. He may never be the #1 receiver on the roster ( if we keep Santonio) but he should be a very good #2 in a couple of years.

I am as keen as ever to see how the young guns on the steelers progress and mature. Breakout seasons are usually projected for 3rd & 4th year steelers and I expect no different from Sweed. ( He will not be an exception to the rule - Santonio was fortunately) A couple of catches a game that move the chains and we will all be happy.

tony hipchest
06-04-2009, 08:03 PM
Ten wide receivers poised to make a Breaston-like jump in '09

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d810736b9&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

I talked to Arizona Cardinals wide receiver Steve Breaston this week and he spoke like a polished receiver coming off a sophomore season in which he increased his receptions total by 69 (8 in 2007; 77 in 2008).

Granted, the injuries to Anquan Boldin provided some of the impetus for Breaston's meteoric rise, but talent and readiness were also part of his big improvement. Breaston credited his quantum leap to really learning the playbook last spring and, most importantly, taking advantage of the time to work on his routes and hands with Kurt Warner in the offseason.

Not many saw Breaston's 69-reception improvement coming. In fact, when NFL.com had its spring fantasy football draft for the magazine, no one picked him. Imagine if fantasy players saw his production on the horizon? What a steal in a fantasy draft -- or, more importantly, what a steal for the Arizona Cardinals, who were hoping he might come through if needed.

Let's look for the next receiver to make a jump in 2009, much like Breaston did during the '08 season. Here's my list of receivers who have a year or two of limited production but may be on the verge of something significant in 2009. First is a list of five wide receivers ready to make the jump from 20-32 catches to 60-80 receptions. The second group is a list of wide receivers ready to take the leap from 10-15 receptions to 50-60 receptions.

The circumstances have to be right, but these guys are poised for a big season. You might want to consider them somewhere in your fantasy draft while everyone else is thinking about the more obvious veterans or last spring's first-round picks.

Leaving sub-35 receptions for 60-80 catches
1. Josh Morgan, San Francisco 49ers: Morgan was one of the most impressive rookies I saw last summer on my camp tour, but he struggled to stay healthy and missed four games during his rookie season. The arrival of Michael Crabtree may suggest a reduced role, but Morgan is capable of delivering a solid season and may get some good looks due to coverage focused on Crabtree.

2. Mark Bradley, Kansas City Chiefs: The arrival of Matt Cassel will expand the passing game and the departure of Tony Gonzalez will raise the opportunities for other Chiefs receivers. Teams will roll their coverage to Dwayne Bowe, and Bradley should see a spike in his production as a result.



3. Jason Avant, Philadelphia Eagles: Unless you talk with an Eagles coach or Donovan McNabb, you might not realize how much this franchise likes Avant. One Eagles executive called him the best slot receiver in the NFL. With all of the attention focused on DeSean Jackson and rookie Jeremy Maclin, Avant should have a very productive year. He has improved his receptions totals in each of his three NFL seasons, from 7 to 23 to 32 last year.

4. Chansi Stuckey, New York Jets: Laveranues Coles is gone and the Jets didn't trade for or draft a receiver in the offseason. Stuckey caught 32 balls for 359 yards and three touchdowns last year, and the path is clear for him to start. He has just two career starts, so this is his chance to shine.

5. Harry Douglas, Atlanta Falcons: Douglas is another slot receiver who could easily explode as fellow second-year teammate Matt Ryan develops. Douglas didn't start a game in 2007, but he did grab 23 passes for 320 yards and one touchdown. With so many teams working the three-wide receiver packages and developing their own versions of what New England does with slot receiver Wes Welker, the opportunities will grow for Douglas. Keep in mind, Breaston saw plenty of passes while on the field at the same time as Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald.

Leaving sub-15 receptions for 50-60 catches
1. Limas Sweed, Pittsburgh Steelers: Sweed caught six balls for 64 yards and no touchdowns during the regular season in 2007, but the departure of Nate Washington and the Steelers' desire to grow the passing game open the door for Sweed to make a Breaston-like jump.


kirwan had sweed as the #1 wr in last years draft, so it makes sense that he isnt going to jump ship as quickly as some of the fans have.

Galax Steeler
06-05-2009, 04:29 AM
Ten wide receivers poised to make a Breaston-like jump in '09





kirwan had sweed as the #1 wr in last years draft, so it makes sense that he isnt going to jump ship as quickly as some of the fans have.

I hope he is right it would be nice to get Sweed about 40 or 50 catches this year.

Jaquila
06-06-2009, 07:04 PM
Ive been having high hopes for this guy since we drafted him and they getting higher=)
GO SWEED!=D

Jackal
06-09-2009, 12:11 PM
I will glady say "I told ya so" when the kid has a breakout year in one of the next two seasons.