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mesaSteeler
05-31-2009, 01:10 AM
Steelers' rookie tries to overcome obstacle
Buzz up!
By Scott Brown, TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Sunday, May 31, 2009
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_627495.html

Scott Brown is the Steelers beat writer. He can be reached via e-mail. Also check out Brown's blog and Steelers Q&A.
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Mike Tomlin knows a thing or two about motivating players.

So it probably shouldn't come as any surprise that the Steelers coach regularly tells rookie center A.Q. Shipley, "Man, those arms are looking short."

The length of Shipley's arms is a big reason why 225 players were selected before the Moon Area High School graduate in April. And Tomlin's daily reminders of that supposed shortcoming are his way of telling Shipley to stiff-arm the doubters.

"He tells me he's going to tell me that every day until I make this team," Shipley said after an offseason practice at the Steelers' South Side facility, "because he doesn't care how long my arms are, which is awesome."

While his arm span is a little under 30 inches considered short for an NFL offensive linemen a spot on the Steelers' 53-man roster is not out of his reach.

Justin Hartwig appears entrenched as the starter at center. But the eighth-year veteran is entering the final year of his contract, and the Steelers may need a successor sooner rather than later.

It is too early to tell whether Shipley is the Steelers' center of the future, but he has been among the first-year players who have pleasantly surprised offensive coordinator Bruce Arians during offseason practices.

"I'm pleased with all of the rookies on offense," Arians said, "Every single one is showing progress and possibilities. This is a hard team to make. (But) I wouldn't count out any of them making our team."

It's not wise to count Shipley out.

Despite hearing questions about his size since he started playing football, the Coraopolis native blossomed into a premier center at Penn State.

A three-year starter in college, Shipley won the 2008 Rimington Trophy, which is given to the top center in the country, and anchored the best offensive line in the Big Ten.

The 6-1, 305-pounder excelled at the NFL Scouting Combine in February, ranking among the top offensive linemen in the 225-pound bench press, several speed drills and vertical leap. He also scored a 40 out of 50 on the Wonderlic aptitude test.

Yet, his slide on the second day of the draft made it clear that teams were more concerned about other measurables namely, Shipley's height and the length of his arms.

By way of comparison, centers Alex Mack and Eric Wood both drafted in the first round this year have arms measured at 33 inches.

Shipley, selected in the seventh round, may have emerged from the draft with a bruised ego. But his feelings were soothed by the fact that he was drafted by his hometown team.

"I've worked my whole life to play in the NFL, and to get picked up by the team I fell in love with is almost surreal at times," Shipley said. "But now it's a business. I have to make the team and show them I can play here."

One thing that will help Shipley in his quest to do that is the edge with which he plays. It is a product of all of those questions he has heard about what he supposedly doesn't have or can't do.

"I think I'll have that chip on my shoulder the rest of my life," Shipley said. "I've been out to prove (critics) wrong, one for myself, two for my family and three just to prove everyone wrong."

Pi Kapp Steeler
05-31-2009, 03:38 AM
I love how we get these guys with a chip on there shoulder. Makes them want outshine the whole league day in day. Keep up the good work Ship we , because we neeeeed a back up Center.

GBMelBlount
05-31-2009, 06:12 AM
While his arm span is a little under 30 inches — considered short for an NFL offensive linemen — a spot on the Steelers' 53-man roster is not out of his reach.

:chuckle:

Galax Steeler
05-31-2009, 08:35 AM
I like the way this guy talks. Sounds like he is ready to make some noise in Pittsburgh. I hope he makes the team and can improve our offensive line.

triphahn
05-31-2009, 05:24 PM
Mack and Wood are at 33 inches and Shipley is at 30. Does any one else think too much is being made out of arm length.

MasterOfPuppets
05-31-2009, 05:32 PM
it sure would be nice if they also gave a progress report for the position competition.....i mean how is legursky's progress compared to shipley....etc...etc.....

Sharkissle29
05-31-2009, 08:03 PM
Mack and Wood are at 33 inches and Shipley is at 30. Does any one else think too much is being made out of arm length.

This is also what got me thinking...sure 3 inches makes a difference, but is it really that big of a difference?

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-31-2009, 08:37 PM
Mack and Wood are at 33 inches and Shipley is at 30. Does any one else think too much is being made out of arm length.

Shipley is 29-3/4
Mack 33
Wood 33-3/4

But, Mack and Wood are also 3 inches taller and have larger frames to put more weight on and play at 10-15lbs heavier than Shipley. Is too much being made out of arm length...........I believe yes. Shipley can overcome that, but he wont have the size and power of the other 2.

At the end of the day, both Mack and Wood should be and can be bigger and more powerful inline blockers than Shipley. Shipley uses his quickness to cut guys off and try to seal lanes. All are good centers, but IMO.....Mack and Wood are more physical maulers, while Shipley is a quicker technician that will have trouble moving guys like Shaun Rogers, Ty Warren, Jamaal Williams, etc.

steelax04
06-01-2009, 02:26 PM
...while Shipley is a quicker technician that will have trouble moving guys like Shaun Rogers, Ty Warren, Jamaal Williams, etc.

Could bring up some interesting "David and Goliath" battles... hopefully his quickness could get him a jump on them before their tonnages get going in the wrong direction.

BlastFurnace
06-01-2009, 05:48 PM
Ok...stupid question....

Do you measure arm length from the armpit or do you measure arm length from the shoulder blade?

MasterOfPuppets
06-01-2009, 09:23 PM
Ok...stupid question....

Do you measure arm length from the armpit or do you measure arm length from the shoulder blade? well when i got measured for a tux, they went from the shoulder...:noidea:

stlrtruck
06-02-2009, 08:40 AM
Here's a question. Didn't Mike Webster have short arms too?

LukesDad88
06-02-2009, 02:23 PM
ranking among the top offensive linemen in the 225-pound bench press, several speed drills and vertical leap. He also scored a 40 out of 50 on the Wonderlic aptitude test.

That's what matters to me. Good attitude, skills, and smart. He will be a part of this team.

Steel Head
06-02-2009, 02:41 PM
poor Shipley

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu6/keevin33/normal_626201325.jpg

revefsreleets
06-02-2009, 05:04 PM
Nick Mangold is also a Center who was considered too light and not physical enough out of college because he was only 300 lbs.

Well, he's still only 300 pounds, but he's rapidly becoming one of the best centers in the NFL.

Arm length isn't going to matter as much for him because he's a center. It's not like he only has 10" arms or something...

Steel Head
06-02-2009, 05:43 PM
Nick Mangold is also a Center who was considered too light and not physical enough out of college because he was only 300 lbs.

Mangold was considered the best center prospect in decades, not sure what you are talking about

revefsreleets
06-02-2009, 05:59 PM
Mangold was considered the best center prospect in decades, not sure what you are talking about

Ah, no he wasn't. Otherwise he wouldn't have hung around until #29. There were plenty of questions about his toughness, his size, his strength and his physicality. And OSU's line gets questioned every year based on their team performance which tends to get the individual performances lost in the fray.

Anyway, the point is that any ONE deficiency can be overcome if you can master all the other aspects of playing a position.

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-02-2009, 06:06 PM
The NFL draft expert, Mike Mayock has examined Nick Mangold as the best prospect at center regarding last 15 years

http://news.about-knowledge.com/nick-mangold/


The centers are as usual a workmanlike group. No superstars here, but the center can be the weak point or the strong point on any line. There are a couple of very good centers and one who may be a future Hall of Famer in Nick Mangold.
ESPN/Scout: Mangold will need to continue to improve his lower body strength in order to match up better versus bigger, stronger NT's in the NFL. However, he possesses the frame to add bulk and has the work ethic to do so. Mangold also owns all the other physical and mental abilities that it takes in order to develop into a very good starting center in the NFL and very soon. Mangold is clearly the best center prospect in the 2006 class and we expect him to come off the 2006 draft board in the late in the first round or early in the second round.

http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/2006/players/centers.htm

Steel Head
06-02-2009, 06:18 PM
The NFL draft expert, Mike Mayock has examined Nick Mangold as the best prospect at center regarding last 15 years

http://news.about-knowledge.com/nick-mangold/


The centers are as usual a workmanlike group. No superstars here, but the center can be the weak point or the strong point on any line. There are a couple of very good centers and one who may be a future Hall of Famer in Nick Mangold.
ESPN/Scout: Mangold will need to continue to improve his lower body strength in order to match up better versus bigger, stronger NT's in the NFL. However, he possesses the frame to add bulk and has the work ethic to do so. Mangold also owns all the other physical and mental abilities that it takes in order to develop into a very good starting center in the NFL and very soon. Mangold is clearly the best center prospect in the 2006 class and we expect him to come off the 2006 draft board in the late in the first round or early in the second round.

http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/2006/players/centers.htm

thanks for the link

that dude is always wrong

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-02-2009, 06:29 PM
thanks for the link

that dude is always wrong

I wouldn't say "always". He had Laurinitis going in the top 20, Cowher to the Browns, Willie Parker being traded before the draft, Dennis Dixon being a KR/WR (like Cribbs) and Mangold a fledgling center in the 2006 draft.

Now he also has the Steelers running more this season because of the additions of Summers and Urbik. and he also thinks Brian Orakpo will be a bust because he is a 1 trick pony of a pass rusher. Could definately be right about those :rolleyes:

revefsreleets
06-02-2009, 06:55 PM
Ahhhh....what fun.

Always wrong...

http://nfldraft.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=3795&PT=7&PR=2&type=scoutingreport#scouting

When blocking in-line, he does not always show the pop to get good movement in his drive blocks. At times, he will give ground to a bull rushing nose tackle and may need help in those situations in the pros.

http://www.sportspool.com/football/draft/398.php


Nick Mangold is a good size man but really needs to work on strength training
to succeed at the next level. Nick does not have a wide base and tends to struggle when head-to-head against massive nose tackles. Sometimes releases too quickly when blocking and doesn’t get a great push in the run game. Mangold may not be a great fit in just any scheme.

Nick Mangold is a probable starter in the middle in his career. He might just suit a zone blocking scheme.


http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootballleague/p/nickmangold.htm

A middle round pick that has great potential. He will not start right away but if he could learn behind a great mentor, then the sky is the limit.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospects/nick_mangold.html

Mangold lacks the ideal size and strength to play center in the NFL. He has the frame to add more weight, and will have to do so to succeed in the NFL. He is on the lean side, and that combination of a lack of size and strength will give him fits in the league. He puts himself in great position but often loses out to bigger tackles because of his inability to drive them off the line.





I could go on, but why? I was there. I lived it, reading and hearing about all these prognosticators doubting this guys skill. It was ridiculous.

"Always wrong".

Always wrong...

By the by, I was always a strong proponent of Mangold, having watched him play every down as a Buckeye. Interesting that I get (wrongly) blasted even when I play Devil's advocate.

But that's cool...

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-02-2009, 11:58 PM
Again, selectively posting partial information to further your dillusional view. Par for the course.

BTW, you forgot this quote in one of the links you posted.

Mangold is an excellent center prospect, and will be the first center off the board.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospects/nick_mangold.html

and this one....

He never seems to get tired as the game wears on and rarely makes a mistake with mental errors. He is able to block well on the move and can reach and get good hits on linebackers and safeties.....athletic interior lineman who has been one of the nation’s most consistent blockers over his outstanding career.
http://nfldraft.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=3795&PT=7&PR=2&type=scoutingreport#scouting

and another one....

He can make all the blocks! A devastating run blocker that blows defenders backwards. Has been a star on the offensive line the past three years, making 21 straight starts. This center will make all the calls before the snap and allow the line to play as a cohesive unit. He has the desired size you look for in a lineman, and even better, he has that nasty streak you look for.

http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootballleague/p/nickmangold.htm

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-03-2009, 12:07 AM
http://nfldraft.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=3795&PT=7&PR=2&type=scoutingreport#scouting

http://www.sportspool.com/football/draft/398.php

http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootballleague/p/nickmangold.htm

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospects/nick_mangold.html


By the by, I was always a strong proponent of Mangold, having watched him play every down as a Buckeye.
...

Hey Nostradamus, contrats on being a strong proponent of Mangold. 3 of these websites you posted links to called him one of the nations best blockers in his career and had him pegged as a 1st round pick. The other one is a dark horse site.

Thinking that Mangold was gonna be a good NFL player is like thinking that breathing is good for a persons health. It's pretty obvious......that is why he was a 1st round pick.

revefsreleets
06-03-2009, 09:57 AM
He was selected 29th. 3 picks from the second...and, what, 6 picks form where Laurinaitis was selected? It makes a difference when it suits your argument, and doesn't matter when it suits mine?

And, again, you two nitwits are using PERFECT 20/20 hindsight simply to tear me down, while my point was that at the time, SOME were saying that Mangold was "too this" or "too that" to succeed in the NFL. I'm not going to pour over old websites searching for this crap just to please two people who get pleasure glaoting over pyrrhic "victories" over me, especially when you yourself have posted some proposterously stupid things (like saying that Arians has a better 3rd and long success rate than 3rd and short). And, unlike my "projection" that Parker would get traded, which was really just a lark, you were serious!

Back on track here, if the ONLY problem Shipley hasit short arms, it can be overcome by stepping up other aspects of his game. No matter what, there will always be naysayers and negative nellies, and if he's the real deal he'll be able to overcome the adversity and be a real asset to the team.

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-03-2009, 10:26 AM
Mangold was pretty much the concensus #1 center in the 2006 draft and I openly hoped the Steelers would somehow get him at the end of the 1st round. They got Holmes and that was a great move trading up.

You make it out like everybody was saying Mangold was a bust.......it just wasnt true.

As for Shipley, I personally think he has a 10 year career in front of him, but thought he fit better with a team where he either plays in a zone system(Denver, Wash, Ind, Hou, etc) or an NFC team with more 4-3 defenses. Now that he is a Steeler, I hope he pans out for us.

revefsreleets
06-03-2009, 10:37 AM
You make it out like everybody was saying Mangold was a bust.......it just wasnt true.



Wrong.

Done with this one now...

MDSteel15
06-03-2009, 11:07 AM
Damn, just when this was getting funny! :noidea: :chuckle: :laughing: :rofl:

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-03-2009, 11:11 AM
Wrong.

Done with this one now...

Of course you are done with this one now. After making a wrong assumption that Mangold was not highly regarded, you make a halfhearted effort at selectively posting info that tries to prove your point. Then you call somebody a name or 2 and quit.

BTW, here is the pre draft opinions on Nick Mangold from 2006, where you say he wasnt highly regarded.

LUDWIG AT LARGE remembers NFL draft analyst Mike Mayock calling Mangold the finest pro prospect at center in the last 15 years. http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/chickludwig/entries/2008/10/09/nick_heavy_metal_mangold_a_rea.html

Mel Kiper said...: Nick Mangold from Ohio State had a great week at the Senior Bowl, and he now is the No. 1 center in the draft.
http://forum.signonsandiego.com/archive/index.php/t-57702.html

Todd McShay had Mangold going #23 to Tampa in his 2006 Mock draft

Tony Pauline said this of Mangold "Ohio State center Nick Mangold is a terrific fit for the Jets and can play the pivot for a decade." http://www.jetsinsider.com/news.php?storyid=1732

If Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Todd McShay and Tony Pauline all had Nick Mangold as the #1 center in the 2006 draft and either had him as a 1st round talent or the best in the past 15 years.............I think you are the one that is wrong.

BlastFurnace
06-03-2009, 11:19 AM
The Steelers need to be careful with Shipley if they try to put him on the Practice Squad. That is how they lost Hank Fraley and he could have been Dawson's replacement when he retired.