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View Full Version : Steelers players who won't be HOFers, but were every bit as good as current HOFers


BlastFurnace
05-31-2009, 01:47 PM
Perhaps one day, these guys will make it, but it doesn't look good right now for them.

1. Levon Kirkland - IMO, the 2nd best MLB the Steelers have ever had behind Lambert. Was the best MLB in football for about 5 years. He was a freak of nature...cound run down any RB, Cover out of the backfield, hit like a ton of bricks. One of my favorite Steelers of all time. Probably didn't do it for long enough, but was awesome when he did. It's a shame he couldn't control his weight.

2. Donnie Shell - Isn't in the HOF, but should be. One of the best 3 safeties the Steelers ever had. His tackle of Earl Campbell..knocking Earl out of the game with broken ribs...is legendary. He was great at covering and run support...and did it for a very long time.

3. LC Greenwood - Another member of the 70's defense that is getting squeezed by the voters. Every bit as good as any DE that played in his era and did it for a long period of time. Great pass rusher and great against the run in...arguably, the most famous D'line that ever played the game.

4. Carnell Lake - Could cover, run support, hit, blitz as good as any safety I have ever seen play. Allowed the Steelers flexibility on defense with all he could do. Did his part to save the Steelers season in 1995 by switching positions and played it at Pro Bowl level. Did it again in 1997 and played just as well. Should be a HOF'r.

5. Dermonti Dawson - Best Center in Football for many years. How he hasn't gotten in by now, is beyond me. I know Center is not a sexy position, but this is ridiculous. I hold out hope for Dermonti, but it may be awhile before this happens.

There are probably others, but these are the one's I immediately thought of.

ben2hines=6
05-31-2009, 03:18 PM
dawson will def. get in eventually

triphahn
05-31-2009, 04:12 PM
Look at my avatar to see who I put at top. All great players. Kirkland was incredible.

Galax Steeler
06-01-2009, 04:00 AM
I have to agree I think Dawson will definetly get in. He was one heck of a player for the steelers.

BlastFurnace
06-01-2009, 06:22 AM
I have to agree I think Dawson will definetly get in. He was one heck of a player for the steelers.

I probably should have left Dermonti off this list. I think he will get in, but it sure takes a while for players at his position to get the recognition they deserve.

xfl2001fan
06-01-2009, 06:34 AM
I probably should have left Dermonti off this list. I think he will get in, but it sure takes a while for players at his position to get the recognition they deserve.

I disagree. He should have been at the top of your list. The current group of Hall of Farce voters are a bunch of douce bags...and I have no faith that they'll put him in.

MDSteel15
06-01-2009, 08:19 AM
Look at my avatar to see who I put at top. All great players. Kirkland was incredible.

He wasn't great, he was a freak of nature!!!! Somebody that big should never be able to do the things he did.... Love Levon :tt03:

fansince'76
06-01-2009, 09:25 AM
Dermonti Dawson - Best Center in Football for many years. How he hasn't gotten in by now, is beyond me.

Simple: zero rings. Thanks again, Neil. A secondary factor, and most likely the main reason L.C. still isn't in there is due to "Steelers saturation," and that many HoF voters seem to feel that you can't have "too many" players from one team in there (see also: Jerry Kramer/Lombardi Packers). But the biggest strike against Dirt is still having no rings.

MasterOfPuppets
06-01-2009, 12:36 PM
Simple: zero rings. Thanks again, Neil. A secondary factor, and most likely the main reason L.C. still isn't in there is due to "Steelers saturation," and that many HoF voters seem to feel that you can't have "too many" players from one team in there (see also: Jerry Kramer/Lombardi Packers). But the biggest strike against Dirt is still having no rings.
dwight stevenson ......former dolphin center, only played 8 years and went to 5 probowls....it took him a few years, but he got in. bruce mathews i believe was a first ballot guy.

triphahn
06-01-2009, 04:25 PM
Simple: zero rings. Thanks again, Neil. A secondary factor, and most likely the main reason L.C. still isn't in there is due to "Steelers saturation," and that many HoF voters seem to feel that you can't have "too many" players from one team in there (see also: Jerry Kramer/Lombardi Packers). But the biggest strike against Dirt is still having no rings.

I have heard from others that the voters are looking at the Steelers having too many players in the HOF.

LambertLunatic
06-01-2009, 09:09 PM
LC Greenwood is a tough one to judge. This isn't to diminish what he's done, but I have to wonder how good he would've been if he didn't line up next to perhaps the best DT ever and the great Jack Ham playing LB on his side. The really great players get double teamed, but LC was never double teamed because offenses HAD to double up on Mean Joe. LC was very successful, but how much of that was because of his own greatness, and how much was because offenses were more afraid of Joe and Ham? It's impossible to know for certain.LC Greenwood

BlastFurnace
06-01-2009, 09:16 PM
LC Greenwood is a tough one to judge. This isn't to diminish what he's done, but I have to wonder how good he would've been if he didn't line up next to perhaps the best DT ever and the great Jack Ham playing LB on his side. The really great players get double teamed, but LC was never double teamed because offenses HAD to double up on Mean Joe. LC was very successful, but how much of that was because of his own greatness, and how much was because offenses were more afraid of Joe and Ham? It's impossible to know for certain.LC Greenwood

Carl Eller got in due to the fact that he benefited from playing next to Alan Page and was on the same as Jim Marshall. Minnesota had a very good set of LB'rs and secondary as well. I think Greenwood was every bit as good as Eller.

PeckerWood
06-01-2009, 09:59 PM
How many centers that ever played the game could pull like Dawson?

revefsreleets
06-02-2009, 10:06 AM
Dirt Dawson not being in the HOF is a travesty. He should have been unanimous first ballot. IMO he was better than Webster, an even more complete player, and just an upstanding citizen in general (which means nothing to a HOF that allows dirtbags like LT and Mike Irvin in).

I'll always remember Dawson for something that most likely never even made TV. At the HOF game against Tampa (98? 99? something like that) At halftime, they had a bunch of little kids come out and play flag football. He went out on the 50 and shook each and every kids hand. I was sitting right there and I could hear him encouraging those kids. It was just astounding to see an NFL player out there doing that. To me he'll always be one of the truly "Good Guys" of the NFL.

Steel Head
06-02-2009, 10:21 AM
Dawson nearly made it last year in his 2nd year of eligibility. He will be inducted within the next few years

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-02-2009, 10:23 AM
Donnie Shell was an undrafted signee who went on to be a

1) five time pro-bowler...
2) five time All-Pro Selection...
3) team MVP in 1980
4) key player in the Steelers winning 4 Super Bowls
5) NFL strong safety career leader in interceptions at his retirement...with 51.


Shell should have been in a long time ago. Long before the bigger names of Stallworth & Swann.

revefsreleets
06-02-2009, 10:42 AM
I've given up on Shell and Greenwood. They definitely fall under the "There are too many Steelers from those teams in" category.

Which is wrong, by the way, but it's too late now...

MACH1
06-02-2009, 10:50 AM
Greg Lloyd
Louis Lipps

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-02-2009, 11:22 AM
I've given up on Shell and Greenwood. They definitely fall under the "There are too many Steelers from those teams in" category.

Which is wrong, by the way, but it's too late now...

The fact that Dan Hampton is in the HOF but LC Greenwood isnt...is a travesty.

BlastFurnace
06-02-2009, 11:42 AM
Greg Lloyd
Louis Lipps

Louis won't get in because of the David Woodley, Mark Malone, Dave Campbell, Bubby Brister combination of QB's he had throwing to him.

Talk about a bad break in your career.

I don't think Lloyd is a HOF'r. He was great for us in our system, but I honestly don't see him ever getting serious consideration.

BlastFurnace
06-02-2009, 11:48 AM
Donnie Shell was an undrafted signee who went on to be a

1) five time prow-bowler...
2) five time All-Pro Selection...
3) team MVP in 1980
4) key player in the Steelers winning 4 Super Bowls
5) NFL strong safety career leader in interceptions at his retirement...with 51.


Shell should have been in a long time ago. Long before the bigger names of Stallworth & Swann.

That's what I thought when I started this thread. Shell was a great safety for many years.

What is your opinion on Lake? He's another one I feel is overlooked because he wasn't flamboyant enough. I thought Lake was the best Safety in football for nearly his entire tenure with us. Rod Woodson said the same many times.

I know he didn't play for us, but the biggest sham of anyone who has ever been on our sideline that is not in the HOF is Dick LeBeau.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-02-2009, 01:08 PM
That's what I thought when I started this thread. Shell was a great safety for many years.

What is your opinion on Lake? He's another one I feel is overlooked because he wasn't flamboyant enough. I thought Lake was the best Safety in football for nearly his entire tenure with us. Rod Woodson said the same many times.



I loved Lake...one of my all-time favorite players to wear the black & gold. But I am something of a "purist"...and a bit of a HOF snob.
Lake only had 16 interceptions in a 12 year career and that is the kiss of death for a defensive back hoping to make the HOF.
Those characteristics that we all loved in Lake such as his versatility and run support ability show up in the fact that not only did he play 2 positions but as a defensive back he had 17 fumble recoveries.... But those who dont follow the Steelers will never vote for a player that doesnt have "the numbers" to justify his membership.

Dino 6 Rings
06-02-2009, 05:47 PM
Does Dick Lebeau count? I consider him a Steeler!!!

BlastFurnace
06-02-2009, 05:56 PM
Does Dick Lebeau count? I consider him a Steeler!!!

I didn't even think of him at first, but he has so much Steeler in him and with the fan base, I don't see how he wouldn't be.

Dick LeBeau should have been in a long time ago.

Cheppy
06-02-2009, 06:10 PM
Add this man to the list once he reitres:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a45/77717/1096937074_43257e4501.jpg

revefsreleets
06-02-2009, 06:13 PM
Aaron Smith has as much chance of making the HOF as you do, Cheppy.

Let's not lose sight here, people. The HOF is for the best of the best of the best.

BlastFurnace
06-02-2009, 07:13 PM
Aaron Smith has as much chance of making the HOF as you do, Cheppy.

Let's not lose sight here, people. The HOF is for the best of the best of the best.

Bruce Smith is the only 3-4 DE that I think will make it in the near future and that is because he was a high profile player that got a lot of sacks.

Aaron Smith is a HOF to Steelers fans, but I don't think hardly anyone knows who he is beyond the teams he plays against and the Steeler Nation.

RoethlisBURGHer
06-02-2009, 11:49 PM
Dirt Dawson should be getting into the Hall of Fame, most likely in the next two years.

There is no way they can deny him, especially since the only other Steeler of that era to get in so far is Rod Woodson, and I don't see any others getting in.

And as for LeBeau, he should be in as a player at the moment and then should get in as a coordinator also.

JackHammer
06-03-2009, 01:44 AM
How many centers that ever played the game could pull like Dawson?

Zero.

Cheppy
06-03-2009, 12:31 PM
Aaron Smith has as much chance of making the HOF as you do, Cheppy.

Since I know your reading comprehension skills are extremely lacking let me familiarize you with the thread topic:

"Steelers players who won't be HOFers, but were every bit as good as current HOFer"
(notice how i put the key word in bold for you)


Let's not lose sight here, people. The HOF is for the best of the best of the best.

So you're saying Aaron Smith isn't hall of fame worthy? It's shameful that even someone who's a Steelers "fan" underrates Smith & how valuable he's been & is to this team. A huge reason why the Steelers' linebackers have been successful is the play of the defensive line & in particular none moreso than Aaron Smith. He perpetually is taking on two people at a time to help the linebackers make plays yet he doesn't just occupy bodies. Even with going against two (sometimes three even) blockers the man still makes plays on his own. He's an absolute behemoth against the run & for an end in a 3/4 scheme it's pretty incredible how much pressure he's been able to generate on quarterbacks over the years. In ten years he's compiled 42 sacks. (last season, his 10th, he had 5.5 & twice in his career he racked up 8) Taking into account he's a defensive end in a 3/4 scheme you can pretty much double that sack total if he was playing end in a 4/3 scheme. (while also being a flat-out phenomenal player against the run) But really, such conjecture shouldn't be needed to explain how great of a player he is. (especially to someone who calls himself a steelers "fan")

To even further elaborate on how great & important Smith is, the times when Casey Hampton (who's still awesome) went down for long stretches Chris Hoke (solid as hell) stepped in & the defense didn't miss a beat. Now go back to the 07 season when Smith missed the final 5 regular season games & the one playoff game. Their run defense (a staple of the team) suffered tremendously & it was clearly evident. Offensive linemen were able to get a better push, hats were being put on our linebackers on a considerably more frequent basis & their record in that span reflected that.

You talk about the hall of fame being for the "best of the best". Well, in his time Aaron Smith has been the best 3/4 defensive linemen in football. Hell, probably of all-time. When it's all said & done one could make a case for Richard Seymour but I'd take Smith over him.

It's insane that even in Steelers Nation (a fan community who knows all to well about our beloved Steelers being underrated) a player of Smith's caliber, a player who doesn't talk & just gets the job (generally speaking a thankless job no less) done better than anyone else at his position doesn't get the respect he deserves.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-03-2009, 12:51 PM
Since I know your reading comprehension skills are extremely lacking let me familiarize you with the thread topic:

"Steelers players who won't be HOFers, but were every bit as good as current HOFer"
(notice how i put the key word in bold for you)




So you're saying Aaron Smith isn't hall of fame worthy? It's shameful that even someone who's a Steelers "fan" underrates Smith & how valuable he's been & is to this team. A huge reason why the Steelers' linebackers have been successful is the play of the defensive line & in particular none moreso than Aaron Smith. He perpetually is taking on two people at a time to help the linebackers make plays yet he doesn't just occupy bodies. Even with going against two (sometimes three even) blockers the man still makes plays on his own. He's an absolute behemoth against the run & for an end in a 3/4 scheme it's pretty incredible how much pressure he's been able to generate on quarterbacks over the years. In ten years he's compiled 42 sacks. (last season, his 10th, he had 5.5 & twice in his career he racked up 8) Taking into account he's a defensive end in a 3/4 scheme you can pretty much double that sack total if he was playing end in a 4/3 scheme. (while also being a flat-out phenomenal player against the run) But really, such conjecture shouldn't be needed to explain how great of a player he is. (especially to someone who calls himself a steelers "fan")

To even further elaborate on how great & important Smith is, the times when Casey Hampton (who's still awesome) went down for long stretches Chris Hoke (solid as hell) stepped in & the defense didn't miss a beat. Now go back to the 07 season when Smith missed the final 5 regular season games & the one playoff game. Their run defense (a staple of the team) suffered tremendously & it was clearly evident. Offensive linemen were able to get a better push, hats were being put on our linebackers on a considerably more frequent basis & their record in that span reflected that.

You talk about the hall of fame being for the "best of the best". Well, in his time Aaron Smith has been the best 3/4 defensive linemen in football. Hell, probably of all-time. When it's all said & done one could make a case for Richard Seymour but I'd take Smith over him.

It's insane that even in Steelers Nation (a fan community who knows all to well about our beloved Steelers being underrated) a player of Smith's caliber, a player who doesn't talk & just gets the job (generally speaking a thankless job no less) done better than anyone else at his position doesn't get the respect he deserves.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I would be more ashamed of not letting someone else have an opinion.

Smith falls into the same category as Carnell Lake....I LOVE both as a player and since I follow the team...I appreciate what they have done. But outside of Steeler fans, Pittsburgh sportswriters and a few enlightened members of the sports community, the vast majority of voters will look at "numbers" and "popularity"...not contribution.

What the voters will see is that In his 10 year career Aaron has 281 solo tackles...95assists....and 42.0 sacks.

That averages out to 28 solo...9.5 assists...and 4.2 sacks a season. Granted, this in no way shows the true value of Smith's contribution to our team...but the sad fact is that 95% of those who will vote for the HOF will not take into consideration that he is a 3-4 DE...and that his play freed up our LB's to rack up some gaudy numbers.

Simply put...we can appreciate Aarons contribution but we shouldnt think for a second that his numbers will convince the HOF voters that he belongs in the hallowed hall.

Steel Head
06-03-2009, 12:52 PM
Bruce Smith is the only 3-4 DE that I think will make it in the near future and that is because he was a high profile player that got a lot of sacks.

Bruce Smith is being inducted this summer.

And he played the majority of his career as a 4-3 DE

Cheppy
06-03-2009, 12:54 PM
ISmith falls into the same category as Carnell Lake....I LOVE both as a player and since I follow the team...I appreciate what they have done. But outside of Steeler fans, Pittsburgh sportswriters and a few enlightened members of the sports community, the vast majority of voters will look at "numbers" and "popularity"...not contribution.

What the voters will see is that In his 10 year career Aaron has 281 solo tackles...95assists....and 42.0 sacks.

That averages out to 28 solo...9.5 assists...and 4.2 sacks a season. Granted, this in no way shows the true value of Smith's contribution to our team...but the sad fact is that 95% of those who will vote for the HOF will not take into consideration that he is a 3-4 DE...and that his play freed up our LB's to get rack up some gaudy numbers.

Simply put...we can appreciate Aarons contribution but we shouldnt think for a second that his numbers will convince the HOF voters that he belongs in the hallowed hall.

Uh, you're preaching to the choir guy. Did you somehow miss this part of my post?

Since I know your reading comprehension skills are extremely lacking let me familiarize you with the thread topic:

"Steelers players who won't be HOFers, but were every bit as good as current HOFer"
(notice how i put the key word in bold for you)

I mean, do I have to put everything in bold?:hunch:

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-03-2009, 01:02 PM
Uh, you're preaching to the choir guy. Did you somehow miss this part of my post?



I mean, do I have to put everything in bold?:hunch:

I think its you that has the reading comprehension problems....Smith DOES NOT belong in the hall.

I thought I was clear in that. (Now its in bold since you seem to like that.)

We can appreciate his contribution and it takes nothing away from my respect for him...but as I said...He doesnt have the numbers to warrant an induction.

Cheppy
06-03-2009, 01:19 PM
I think its you that has the reading comprehension problems....Smith DOES NOT belong in the hall.

I thought I was clear in that. (Now its in bold since you seem to like that.)

Actually:

I would be more ashamed of not letting someone else have an opinion.

Smith falls into the same category as Carnell Lake....I LOVE both as a player and since I follow the team...I appreciate what they have done. But outside of Steeler fans, Pittsburgh sportswriters and a few enlightened members of the sports community, the vast majority of voters will look at "numbers" and "popularity"...not contribution.

What the voters will see is that In his 10 year career Aaron has 281 solo tackles...95assists....and 42.0 sacks.

That averages out to 28 solo...9.5 assists...and 4.2 sacks a season. Granted, this in no way shows the true value of Smith's contribution to our team...but the sad fact is that 95% of those who will vote for the HOF will not take into consideration that he is a 3-4 DE...and that his play freed up our LB's to rack up some gaudy numbers.

Simply put...we can appreciate Aarons contribution but we shouldnt think for a second that his numbers will convince the HOF voters that he belongs in the hallowed hall.

There's not one sentence in there that you state he doesn't belong. All I'm reading there is what the HOF voters will be looking for. (you even talk about a few enlightened sports writers) And, well, duh:laughing: (hence my preaching to the choir comment) You basically rendered your own post moot.

We can appreciate his contribution and it takes nothing away from my respect for him...but as I said...He doesnt have the numbers to warrant an induction.

Considering his position & everything I stated in my previous post, he does.

St33lersguy
06-03-2009, 03:07 PM
it's a shame that all those guys aren't in the hall of fame yet that drugclown Michael Irvin among others are

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-03-2009, 05:26 PM
Actually:



There's not one sentence in there that you state he doesn't belong. All I'm reading there is what the HOF voters will be looking for. (you even talk about a few enlightened sports writers) And, well, duh:laughing: (hence my preaching to the choir comment) You basically rendered your own post moot.



Considering his position & everything I stated in my previous post, he does.

I was trying to be polite in my first post to counter your rudeness to the previous poster....I can see that it worked SO well.:doh:

Your rude behavior aside. You have not posted one legitimate reason nor one relevant stat that would convince a person that you have a legitimate argument. But then, rudeness is often a poor substitute for facts.

Cheppy
06-03-2009, 05:48 PM
I was trying to be polite in my first post to counter your rudeness to the previous poster....I can see that it worked SO well.:doh:

I'll buy that for a dollar.

Your rude behavior aside. You have not posted one legitimate reason nor one relevant stat that would convince a person that you have a legitimate argument. But then, rudeness is often a poor substitute for facts.

So you're saying Aaron Smith isn't hall of fame worthy? It's shameful that even someone who's a Steelers "fan" underrates Smith & how valuable he's been & is to this team. A huge reason why the Steelers' linebackers have been successful is the play of the defensive line & in particular none moreso than Aaron Smith. He perpetually is taking on two people at a time to help the linebackers make plays yet he doesn't just occupy bodies. Even with going against two (sometimes three even) blockers the man still makes plays on his own. He's an absolute behemoth against the run & for an end in a 3/4 scheme it's pretty incredible how much pressure he's been able to generate on quarterbacks over the years. In ten years he's compiled 42 sacks. (last season, his 10th, he had 5.5 & twice in his career he racked up 8) Taking into account he's a defensive end in a 3/4 scheme you can pretty much double that sack total if he was playing end in a 4/3 scheme. (while also being a flat-out phenomenal player against the run) But really, such conjecture shouldn't be needed to explain how great of a player he is. (especially to someone who calls himself a steelers "fan")

To even further elaborate on how great & important Smith is, the times when Casey Hampton (who's still awesome) went down for long stretches Chris Hoke (solid as hell) stepped in & the defense didn't miss a beat. Now go back to the 07 season when Smith missed the final 5 regular season games & the one playoff game. Their run defense (a staple of the team) suffered tremendously & it was clearly evident. Offensive linemen were able to get a better push, hats were being put on our linebackers on a considerably more frequent basis & their record in that span reflected that.

You talk about the hall of fame being for the "best of the best". Well, in his time Aaron Smith has been the best 3/4 defensive linemen in football. Hell, probably of all-time. When it's all said & done one could make a case for Richard Seymour but I'd take Smith over him.

It's insane that even in Steelers Nation (a fan community who knows all to well about our beloved Steelers being underrated) a player of Smith's caliber, a player who doesn't talk & just gets the job (generally speaking a thankless job no less) done better than anyone else at his position doesn't get the respect he deserves.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Being willfully ignorant is a strange phenomenom. You can go back to spooning Revs now.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-03-2009, 05:51 PM
I'll buy that for a dollar.


Being willfully ignorant is a strange phenomenom. You can go back to spooning Revs now.

If by ignorance you mean that I provided stats and facts...to counter your "I'm right so everyone else is stupid" immature attitude....then I'll take it.

Here ya go...:binky:....that should settle you down a bit.

You may go now.:wave:

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-03-2009, 05:56 PM
I hate the off season..it brings out all the tools who would rather puff out their chest on a message board then partake in actual Steelers talk.:noidea:

Every year its the same thing.

Cheppy
06-03-2009, 06:00 PM
If by ignorance you mean that I provided stats and facts...to counter your "I'm right so everyone else is stupid" immature attitude....then I'll take it.

So I didn't provide facts or stats? Unreal.. And to even further bolster my stance I'm sure if you were able to compile his tackles for losses they would be impressive too. And again, you're failing to wrap your mind around the position the man plays & what it entails. You just copy & paste stats without fully understanding their context.

You are ignorant.


Here ya go...:binky:....that should settle you down a bit.

You may go now.:wave:

Any Steeler fan worth their salt would be able to recognize the man's accomplishments & importance to a defense that has been consistently great during his tenure. Shameful & ingnorant...

Cheppy
06-03-2009, 06:01 PM
I hate the off season..it brings out all the tools who would rather puff out their chest on a message board then partake in actual Steelers talk.:noidea:

Every year its the same thing.

Wow.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-03-2009, 06:13 PM
So I didn't provide facts or stats? Unreal.. And to even further bolster my stance I'm sure if you were able to compile his tackles for losses they would be impressive too. And again, you're failing to wrap your mind around the position the man plays & what it entails. You just copy & paste stats without fully understanding their context.

You are ignorant.

Any Steeler fan worth their salt would be able to recognize the man's accomplishments & importance to a defense that has been consistently great during his tenure. Shameful & ingnorant...

*Sigh*

I provided his stats (what you want to call cut and paste)...and broke it down for you.

As much as you want to twist those stats to make them seem more than they are...it doesnt change a thing.

You have still not given ONE stat that supports your claim...in fact those stats that you gave support the claim that he DOESNT have the numbers to warrant a HOF induction.

Without the necessary stats your entire argument seems to hinge on your arbitrary logic of:

you can pretty much double that sack total if he was playing end in a 4/3 scheme.

Seriously?...You think under his HOF bust they will put..."[Would have had an average of 9 sacks a season IF he was a 4-3 Defensive End"

Riiiigggghhht.

Cheppy
06-03-2009, 06:23 PM
*Sigh*

I provided his stats (what you want to call cut and paste)...and broke it down for you.

As much as you want to twist those stats to make them seem more than they are...it doesnt change a thing.

You have still not given ONE stat that supports your claim...in fact those stats that you gave support the claim that he DOESNT have the numbers to warrant a HOF induction.

His sack stats & I'm sure without looking for myself, his qb pressures, tackles for loss, his stalwart play against the run are all enough to warrant induction and at the very least strong consideration. You can't look at those stats the same as you would a 4/3 end. I really don't understand how you're not getting that concept. (a steeler "fan" no less)



Seriously?...You think under his HOF bust they will put..."Would have had an average of 9 sacks a season IF he was a 4-3 Defensive End"

Riiiigggghhht.

Of course not.. I was merely trying to polarize the difference between his position and that of a 4/3 lineman. And there's a huge difference & to accurately judge Smith's play you have to take into account the position he plays & what it entails. (not too mention his worth to a perpetually awesome defense) Isn't that what one is supposed to do when evaluating any position in any sport in the world?

I've said this before but I don't come in here looking to pick fights. But goddamn, I really don't get how you're not able to grasp such a thing. Christ...

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-03-2009, 06:41 PM
I've said this before but I don't come in here looking to pick fights. But goddamn, I really don't get how you're not able to grasp such a thing. Christ...

You fail to understand that those who disagree with you may do so and still "grasp" what your saying.

They are not ignorant...they simply disagree. Try and wrap your mind around that simple fact.

Cheppy
06-03-2009, 08:09 PM
You fail to understand that those who disagree with you may do so and still "grasp" what your saying.

They are not ignorant...they simply disagree. Try and wrap your mind around that simple fact.

Oh my god............................. It's not that you just disagree with me, it's that you're copying & pasting numbers & comparing them to 4/3 defensive linemen while not taking into account that he plays a different position & he should be judged accordingly. So now I can come to the conclusion that you're either A: just extremely thick or B: are just disagreeing with me due to personal reasons while foregoing all the "logic" you've included in your own previous posts.

So unless you're going to stop being stupid or spiteful don't acknowledge me. Or do, I'm just saying.. (you could be a masochist for all i know though)

St33lersguy
06-04-2009, 09:58 AM
I think its you that has the reading comprehension problems....Smith DOES NOT belong in the hall.

I thought I was clear in that. (Now its in bold since you seem to like that.)

We can appreciate his contribution and it takes nothing away from my respect for him...but as I said...He doesnt have the numbers to warrant an induction.

Not trying to gang up on you just stating what I think. Just because his stats are not impressive doesn't mean he does not deserve to be in. Yes he will not get in because of his stats but you seem to be dismissing his importance and value to the team.

revefsreleets
06-04-2009, 11:04 AM
Chep's a real treat, ain't he?

Where the eff do these idiots come from, anyway, the Steelers.com board?

Anyway, Aaron Smith is a nice player. Important to the Steelers success, and a vital cog in their defense. But he won't even sniff the HOF, NOR SHOULD HE.

Only a myopic homer would consider Smith of HOF talent, or even mention him, even in a thread about players who are good enough for the hall but won't make it.

Cheppy
06-04-2009, 12:26 PM
Anyway, Aaron Smith is a nice player. Important to the Steelers success, and a vital cog in their defense. But he won't even sniff the HOF, NOR SHOULD HE.

He won't, but he should. See, to accurately evaluate a 3/4 defensive lineman you actually have to have a grasp at what the position calls for & know that by the position's nature a player isn't going to put up gaudy sack totals like a 4/3 defensive lineman would. Considering I have to explain this to a Steelers "fan" you're not only dumb as dishwater, but a disgrace.

Only a myopic homer would consider Smith of HOF talent, or even mention him, even in a thread about players who are good enough for the hall but won't make it.

Says the guy who favorably compared the Steelers' offensive coordinator (wink wink) to Bill Walsh:laughing: What gem will you bust out next? Seriously though, you're shameful.

Dino 6 Rings
06-04-2009, 12:44 PM
Cheppy,

Take it easy, relax. You obviously believe that Smith should be a HOF player, ok, that's great. All Revs and LLT Did was point out that he won't ever be because of stats and the fact the HOF Voters don't recognize things like "importance to the scheme" when considering HOF Votes. You're argument that they Should consider that, is valid, but it won't happen. That's all that's being said.

Think about our entire team right now, who on it, today has a chance at the Hall of Fame? Ben, Ward, Troy? Who else?

Farrior very slim. Harrison, needs about 5 more great years. Woodley, doubtful in that our Linebackers are replaced on a 5 - 7 year cycle. Holmes? Better step up his Regular Season Stats. Parker? Not if he doesn't have about 3 more 1000 yard seasons and win about 2 more SBs.

Ike Taylor? Heath Miller? Casey Hampton?

Its really hard to pick out the guys that will actually make the HOF From this team for sure. Bettis is from the old team. But then, who else?

Cheppy
06-04-2009, 01:02 PM
Cheppy,

Take it easy, relax. You obviously believe that Smith should be a HOF player, ok, that's great. All Revs and LLT Did was point out that he won't ever be because of stats and the fact the HOF Voters don't recognize things like "importance to the scheme" when considering HOF Votes. You're argument that they Should consider that, is valid, but it won't happen. That's all that's being said.

That's not all that's being said bro:

Let's not lose sight here, people. The HOF is for the best of the best of the best.

Smith DOES NOT belong in the hall.

He doesnt have the numbers to warrant an induction.

You have still not given ONE stat that supports your claim...in fact those stats that you gave support the claim that he DOESNT have the numbers to warrant a HOF induction.

Anyway, Aaron Smith is a nice player. Important to the Steelers success, and a vital cog in their defense. But he won't even sniff the HOF, NOR SHOULD HE.

Only a myopic homer would consider Smith of HOF talent, or even mention him, even in a thread about players who are good enough for the hall but won't make it.

Come on man.


And I never once said that he was going to make the hall of fame. I've even acknowledged that cold, hard fact. After all, the thread subject is Steelers players who won't be HOFers, but were every bit as good as current HOFer. Iunderstood that when I made my initial post.

Think about our entire team right now, who on it, today has a chance at the Hall of Fame? Ben, Ward, Troy? Who else?

I would say those 3, yes.


Farrior very slim. Harrison, needs about 5 more great years. Woodley, doubtful in that our Linebackers are replaced on a 5 - 7 year cycle. Holmes? Better step up his Regular Season Stats. Parker? Not if he doesn't have about 3 more 1000 yard seasons and win about 2 more SBs.

Ike Taylor? Heath Miller? Casey Hampton?

Its really hard to pick out the guys that will actually make the HOF From this team for sure. Bettis is from the old team. But then, who else?

Farrior was the fourth guy I considered but I don't see him getting inducted. Heath's blocking responsibilities will prevent him from getting in. Though, considering he's great at it in a perfect world that should help his cause. But I have no delusions.

revefsreleets
06-04-2009, 02:02 PM
The HOF is for the best of the best.

With a few exceptions, it's still that.

Aaron Smith is NOT the best of the best, nor does he have that kind of talent.

Jesus, what are you his brother-in-law or something? You've made a couple decent arguments here, spottily, here and there amidst the preponderance of junk postings, but this "argument" is really stretching credulity, dude.

I get that you hate me. I'm more than fine with that. But that doesn't give you a pass to make mentally retarded statements and then bash me for correctly addressing them as such.

Steel Head
06-04-2009, 02:04 PM
I'm a huge Aaron Smith fan but he does not belong in the hall of fame and will probably never even be nominated

Cheppy
06-04-2009, 02:38 PM
The HOF is for the best of the best.

With a few exceptions, it's still that.

Aaron Smith is NOT the best of the best, nor does he have that kind of talent.

Who's a better 3/4 lineman? Unless someone who plays that position gets double digit sacks every year (which is almost impossible) they're not worthy of hall of fame status? Essentially you're belittling the position (one that's the foundation of the steelers defense) & that's why, again, as someone who calls himself a Steelers "fan", you're a disgrace.

Jesus, what are you his brother-in-law or something? You've made a couple decent arguments here, spottily, here and there amidst the preponderance of junk postings, but this "argument" is really stretching credulity, dude.

I'm someone who understands the importance of the position, what it entails & the significant play of Smith & his integral contribution to what has been a perpetually awesome defense this decade. And your credibility went out the window the moment you favorably compared Arians to Bill Walsh. You're adept at copying & pasting your little stats though.

I get that you hate me. I'm more than fine with that. But that doesn't give you a pass to make mentally retarded statements and then bash me for correctly addressing them as such.

Mentally retarded statements? You correctly addressed something? Bizarro world:laughing: And I don't hate you guy, I don't hate anyone. But I value your opinion about as much as a girl named Jeannette who asked me where the Pittsburgh Steelers played. (true story)

St33lersguy
06-04-2009, 03:39 PM
why didn't someone name this thread "should Aaron Smith be in the HOF or not"?:chuckle:

BlastFurnace
06-04-2009, 04:19 PM
Lol...this thread has turned into a three headed monster.

revefsreleets
06-05-2009, 07:56 AM
Bwahaha! Who's better? You have GOT to be kidding me...

Right off the top of my head, there probably IS one HOF 3-4 DE playing right now, and that's Richard Seymour. His numbers AND importance to his unit far outshadow Smith's. Shaun Ellis is another guy who puts up much bigger numbers than Smith in a 3-4, practically twice as many tackles. Others of note, Luis Castillo of SD, Trevor Pryce...

If I spent a few minutes I could probably add a few names, but, again, why bother? You'll just tell me I'm wrong because you are always right, probably adding more ridiculous statements about how stats don't count.

Anyway, if we can get back to the topic, isn't this supposed to be about guys playing for the Steelers who are HOF caliber but probably won't make the Hall? Now that we've eliminated Smith from the list, can we get back to reality?

thumper
06-05-2009, 12:27 PM
Lake deserves it big time. Dirt deserves it and will get in. But Lake might not. I remember Lake changing games all by himself. Between Lloyd, Lake and Woodson, they would make the big plays when needed.

Dino 6 Rings
06-05-2009, 12:51 PM
Aaron Smith's Numbers:

145 Games Played
42 Sacks
7 Forced Fumbles
9 Fumbles Recovered
316 Tackles
112 assists
1 Int

St33lersguy
06-05-2009, 01:39 PM
Bwahaha! Who's better? You have GOT to be kidding me...

Right off the top of my head, there probably IS one HOF 3-4 DE playing right now, and that's Richard Seymour. His numbers AND importance to his unit far outshadow Smith's. Shaun Ellis is another guy who puts up much bigger numbers than Smith in a 3-4, practically twice as many tackles. Others of note, Luis Castillo of SD, Trevor Pryce...

If I spent a few minutes I could probably add a few names, but, again, why bother? You'll just tell me I'm wrong because you are always right, probably adding more ridiculous statements about how stats don't count.

Anyway, if we can get back to the topic, isn't this supposed to be about guys playing for the Steelers who are HOF caliber but probably won't make the Hall? Now that we've eliminated Smith from the list, can we get back to reality?

Either you are also a jets or do a lot of research.
Yes Smith's numbers are not hall of fame worthy but we should atleast appreciate his value and contribution to the team. I don't remember him for numbers I remember him for freeing all our LBs and doing the dirty work of the defense. I also remember in 2007 the jags running all over the steelers in the snow in his absence. Also the friggin rams were able to put up some good yardage late that year.

revefsreleets
06-05-2009, 02:33 PM
Not saying he's not valuable. In fact, he is VITAL to our run defense.

But we've gotten off track and stayed there.

Aaron Smith is not a HOF caliber player. Many, if not most NFL players (yes, even players on the Steelers), are not. He's not getting in, he won't be considered, and he's not as good as other DL who are in. In fact, after 80 years of playing NFL football, there are only 27 defensive lineman in the hall (that excludes 16 pre-modern lineman who played both ways). Even if we count them, that's only 43 total defensive linemen. Out of ALL those teams, and all those years, 43 total defensive linemen.

So can we move on now?

Cheppy
06-05-2009, 03:05 PM
Bwahaha! Who's better? You have GOT to be kidding me...

Right off the top of my head, there probably IS one HOF 3-4 DE playing right now, and that's Richard Seymour. His numbers AND importance to his unit far outshadow Smith's.

Like I said already, he's the one other guy that one could make a case for. But at the same time while the Patriots' base defense is a 3/4 they've been known to go to a 4/3 during games. (on a regular basis too) And next to Polamalu Smith is the most important player on the Steelers defense. Case in point, the 2007 collapse.

Shaun Ellis is another guy who puts up much bigger numbers than Smith in a 3-4, practically twice as many tackles. Others of note, Luis Castillo of SD, Trevor Pryce...

Shaun Ellis' numbers actually are impressive. But living in NY I have to settle for Jets games when they don't coincide with the Steelers & I've seen the guy play a ton of times over the years & he's not nearly as good of a run defender as Smith nor does he eat up blocks like him. (the two most important functions of a 3/4 lineman)

Let's just forget you even mentioned Castillo & Pryce. Pryce played in a 4/3 for 9 years & never has been on Smith's level when it comes to run defense. Castillo doesn't have the body of work of Smith, has only played a full season twice in 4 years & his 08 season wasn't anything to write home about.

If I spent a few minutes I could probably add a few names, but, again, why bother? You'll just tell me I'm wrong because you are always right, probably adding more ridiculous statements about how stats don't count.


Never said stats don't count & I think Smith's stats coupled with the fact that he's been the best run stuffer at his postion as well as being more adept at giving his linebackers space to makes plays than anyone at his postion (with the possible exception of seymour on both accounts) is enough to make him hall of fame worthy. See, I take stats into account but at the same time I'm not an automaton who doesn't have the capacity of 3 dimensional thinking. I can critique & acknowledge little things like, you know, run defense. (small part of a lineman's job i know)

And I'm well aware that you can add a few names. At this point I'm waiting for you to mention Tyson Jackson.

Anyway, if we can get back to the topic, isn't this supposed to be about guys playing for the Steelers who are HOF caliber but probably won't make the Hall? Now that we've eliminated Smith from the list, can we get back to reality?

Rev's reality is a place where Walsh & Arians can be favorably compared to one another. A place where Trevor Pryce has been a 3/4 lineman throughout his career. A place where a defensive lineman who has only played two full seasons has been better than Aaron Smith. A place where he thinks he's smart . A place where pop tarts grow on trees.

Sounds like a blissfully ignorant place to be in Revs. I almost envy you, almost.

revefsreleets
06-05-2009, 03:28 PM
Misrepresenting the Arians/Walsh comment repeatedly doesn't make it any different than what it originally was: Stating that the OC of the Steelers is NOT the problem. That it matters not who the OC is, with a crappy OL they won't realize their offensive potential no matter WHO the OC is.

Aaron Smith as a HOF caliber player is an asinine statement. You made it, and, to further show your ignorance, stuck by it. Calling me names is a nice deflection tactic, but it fails miserably.

Try again?

Please, try harder though...

Cheppy
06-05-2009, 03:31 PM
Misrepresenting the Arians/Walsh comment repeatedly doesn't make it any different than what it originally was: Stating that the OC of the Steelers is NOT the problem. That it matters not who the OC is, with a crappy OL they won't realize their offensive potential no matter WHO the OC is.

Aaron Smith as a HOF caliber player is an asinine statement. You made it, and, to further show your ignorance, stuck by it.

That's all you...

I guess in your "reality" by not addressing any of this:

Like I said already, he's the one other guy that one could make a case for. But at the same time while the Patriots' base defense is a 3/4 they've been known to go to a 4/3 during games. (on a regular basis too) And next to Polamalu Smith is the most important player on the Steelers defense. Case in point, the 2007 collapse.



Shaun Ellis' numbers actually are impressive. But living in NY I have to settle for Jets games when they don't coincide with the Steelers & I've seen the guy play a ton of times over the years & he's not nearly as good of a run defender as Smith nor does he eat up blocks like him. (the two most important functions of a 3/4 lineman)

Let's just forget you even mentioned Castillo & Pryce. Pryce played in a 4/3 for 9 years & never has been on Smith's level when it comes to run defense. Castillo doesn't have the body of work of Smith, has only played a full season twice in 4 years & his 08 season wasn't anything to write home about.


Never said stats don't count & I think Smith's stats coupled with the fact that he's been the best run stuffer at his postion as well as being more adept at giving his linebackers space to makes plays than anyone at his postion (with the possible exception of seymour on both accounts) is enough to make him hall of fame worthy. See, I take stats into account but at the same time I'm not an automaton who doesn't have the capacity of 3 dimensional thinking. I can critique & acknowledge little things like, you know, run defense. (small part of a lineman's job i know)

And I'm well aware that you can add a few names. At this point I'm waiting for you to mention Tyson Jackson.

you're absolved from being a moron?

revefsreleets
06-05-2009, 03:37 PM
Buh-bye! You and that moron racist steel 12 are now on my ignore list.

Can't take your retardation anymore...

Cheppy
06-05-2009, 04:23 PM
:laughing:

Dino 6 Rings
06-05-2009, 04:33 PM
People, lets not fight with each other.

One person makes a case, another disagrees, we move on.

I asked earlier, who on the current roster is getting into the HOF? Maybe 4 guys, if we are lucky. Throw in the Bus and maybe Faneca from the XL team, and that's about it. We aren't going to see the saturation of players from the Steelers into the HOF like from the 70s. Although we probably should. Ike Taylor has been a major part of our defense for years now. Same as Hampton, Farrior, but those guys aren't getting in.

Aaron Smith is pretty darn good.

Cheppy, do some side by sides with Aaron's numbers with Seymours or other current NFL DLinemen that are in a 3-4 defense.

CargoJon
06-05-2009, 08:15 PM
I think Casey Hampton is one of those guys I think with another couple of good seasons could go in.
4x pro bowler, 2x SB champ, one of the best of the best at the NT position.

HometownGal
06-06-2009, 04:05 PM
I'll buy that for a dollar.





Being willfully ignorant is a strange phenomenom. You can go back to spooning Revs now.

Me thinks you'd better cease with the condescending and ignorant remarks, Chippy. As I've said so many times that it's becoming a broken record - ATTACK THE POST, NOT THE POSTER. If you can't do that, don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

Ohhhhhkayyyyy!

http://s.bebo.com/app-image/7925626673/5411656627/PROFILE/i.quizzaz.com/img/q/u/08/04/14/alvin2.jpg

Cheppy
06-07-2009, 09:06 AM
Me thinks you'd better cease with the condescending and ignorant remarks, Chippy. As I've said so many times that it's becoming a broken record - ATTACK THE POST, NOT THE POSTER. If you can't do that, don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

Ohhhhhkayyyyy!

I was doing both & you're about a week late. Revs is guilty of this too. He's not going to get a warning?

http://s.bebo.com/app-image/7925626673/5411656627/PROFILE/i.quizzaz.com/img/q/u/08/04/14/alvin2.jpg

That's pretty bad:laughing:

Off Topic but why did the Av thread I created in the Feedback & Support section get deleted? What's up with that?

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-07-2009, 09:36 AM
Me thinks you'd better cease with the condescending and ignorant remarks,

Originally posted by Cheppy
I was doing both & you're about a week late.

Obviously you dont know what condescending means...since you responded with a condescending remark.

Seriously take her advise and chill out. People would love to hear from you if you quit chest puffing and talking down to people.

Cheppy
06-07-2009, 09:52 AM
Cheppy, do some side by sides with Aaron's numbers with Seymours or other current NFL DLinemen that are in a 3-4 defense.

The two to do it with would be Ellis & Seymour.

Aaron Smith
10 Seasons
145 Games
42 Sacks
7 Forced Fumbles
21 Passes Defended
310 Tackles
111 assists
1 Int

Best at the two primary functions of his position. Occupying blocks to help let linebackers make plays, run defense. In his first season he only played spottily in 6 games.

Shaun Ellis
9 Seasons
140 Games
61.5 Sacks
11 Forced Fumbles
15 Passes Defended
321 Tackles
142 Assists
1 Int

I go back to this:

But living in NY I have to settle for Jets games when they don't coincide with the Steelers & I've seen the guy play a ton of times over the years & he's not as good of a run defender as Smith nor does he eat up blocks like him. (the two most important functions of a 3/4 lineman)

But those numbers are really impressive & he's been a durable player. Those sack totals in particular make a strong case for his behalf.

Richard Seymour
8 Seasons
111 Games
39 Sacks
3 Forced Fumbles
26 Passes Defended
223 Tackles
134 Assists
2 Int

Again, I go back to this:

But at the same time while the Patriots' base defense is a 3/4 they've been known to go to a 4/3 during games. (on a regular basis too)

That's something to take into account. Also he has some durability issues. The one stat that sticks out to me is Passes Defended... Impressive.

Making a case for Smith it essentially comes down to how much stock one puts into the nuts & bolts of the position. (occupying blocks & run defense) Considering that's the main function of a 3/4 end, for me, I put a great amount of importance on'em.

Cheppy
06-07-2009, 10:00 AM
Obviously you dont know what condescending means...since you responded with a condescending remark.

I thought the use of a chipmunk was pretty condescending. (& not funny) And again, I get a warning but Revs doesn't?

HometownGal
06-07-2009, 06:23 PM
I was doing both & you're about a week late. Revs is guilty of this too. He's not going to get a warning?

Seems to me that YOU started the shit by throwing out an insult to revs. See below:

Since I know your reading comprehension skills are extremely lacking let me familiarize you with the thread topic:


If you are going to take aim with a venom filled dart around here, you'd better expect one back.



Off Topic but why did the Av thread I created in the Feedback & Support section get deleted? What's up with that?

I can't answer that as I don't recall deleting your thread in that forum and see no record of it. Try posting it again and we'll go from there.

Cheppy
06-08-2009, 05:13 PM
Seems to me that YOU started the shit by throwing out an insult to revs. See below:

He made a snide comment while not comprehending the context of my post. (& it wasn't an isolated incident)


If you are going to take aim with a venom filled dart around here, you'd better expect one back.

I do.. I welcome it even. And if I'm proved wrong on something I'll own up to it. But I think it's reasonable to expect the mods to be objective & not play favorites.

HometownGal
06-08-2009, 06:01 PM
He made a snide comment while not comprehending the context of my post. (& it wasn't an isolated incident)

Do you mean this comment, which is actually factual? I think you need to grow thicker skin if you think this is "snide".

Originally Posted by revefsreleets
Aaron Smith has as much chance of making the HOF as you do, Cheppy.



But I think it's reasonable to expect the mods to be objective & not play favorites.

The fave game is not played around here, as other members (some of them friends of mine) will attest to, as they've been called out and/or infracted when they've crossed the line. Might I suggest that when you stop :crying01: ing and put down the whine and cheese, you read the Board COC which is located in the Announcements forum at the top of the Index page?

I think it's reasonable to expect that members debate fairly and don't strut their shit around here like they're the co ck of the walk.

Cheppy
06-08-2009, 06:27 PM
Do you mean this comment, which is actually factual? I think you need to grow thicker skin if you think this is "snide".

I was referring to this one:

Let's not lose sight here, people. The HOF is for the best of the best of the best.

The one you quoted covers the part where he wasn't able to comprehend the context of my post for I never said he was making the hall. ("steelers players who won't be hof'ers")


The fave game is not played around here, as other members (some of them friends of mine) will attest to, as they've been called out and/or infracted when they've crossed the line. Might I suggest that when you stop :crying01: ing and put down the whine and cheese, you read the Board COC which is located in the Announcements forum at the top of the Index page?

No crying from my end. Just making accurate observations is all.

I think it's reasonable to expect that members debate fairly and don't strut their shit around here like they're the co ck of the walk.

It's not like I went out of my way to do so. I mean, multiple posts directed towards me disregarded entire paragraphs I wrote & it took a whole day before my basic, initial stance was understood. And that's their right just as it's theirs to be passionate & even abrasive towards me. (words on a messageboard don't hurt) It'd be one thing if it was just the three of us howling at the moon not even making an effort to back up our arguments. (though revs was walking that fine line) But that wasn't the case.

HometownGal
06-08-2009, 06:54 PM
I was referring to this one:

The one you quoted covers the part where he wasn't able to comprehend the context of my post for I never said he was making the hall. ("steelers players who won't be hof'ers")



C'mon man - grow a set. I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with revs' reply post, which was pretty direct, respectful and offered an opinion, which is the purpose of a sports message board. Nothing here should be taken as gospel.

Here is your reply to his post that you quote above as being "snide":


Who's a better 3/4 lineman? Unless someone who plays that position gets double digit sacks every year (which is almost impossible) they're not worthy of hall of fame status? Essentially you're belittling the position (one that's the foundation of the steelers defense) & that's why, again, as someone who calls himself a Steelers "fan", you're a disgrace.


Want more examples of your condescending attitude?

No crying from my end. Just making accurate observations is all.

Your observations couldn't be farther from the truth.


It's not like I went out of my way to do so. I mean, multiple posts directed towards me disregarded entire paragraphs I wrote & it took a whole day before my basic, initial stance was understood. And that's their right just as it's theirs to be passionate & even abrasive towards me. (words on a messageboard don't hurt) It'd be one thing if it was just the three of us howling at the moon not even making an effort to back up our arguments. (though revs was walking that fine line) But that wasn't the case.

Look Chepster - everyone's opinions are welcomed around here. No two posters are alike in their delivery and words on a message board can be misinterpreted quite easily. Don't look for a fight - that isn't going to get you very far here. Disagree respectfully and move on.

revefsreleets
06-09-2009, 09:52 AM
It's no biggie...the insults mean nothing to me, and since I don't really value Chep's opinion at all, I put him on ignore. This whole thing should be over already...

He who doth protest too much, and all that...

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-09-2009, 10:35 AM
It's no biggie...the insults mean nothing to me, and since I don't really value Chep's opinion at all, I put him on ignore. This whole thing should be over already...

He who doth protest too much, and all that...

I dont think HTG cared so much about WHO he was talking to as she was HOW he was talking to people.

revefsreleets
06-09-2009, 10:39 AM
Oh, I get that...

I'm not so subtly insinuating that perhaps people on this board should consider the source. Chep's not the best nor is he the brightest poster ever to grace this board. He's pretty much out to instigate, IMO, and if everyone just ignores him, he'll probably go away...

Cheppy
06-10-2009, 04:57 PM
Chep's not the best nor is he the brightest poster ever to grace this board.

I guess in your "reality" by not addressing any of this:

you're absolved from being a moron?

I guess I answered my own question. Two names, Luis Castillo, Trevor Pryce....

the insults mean nothing to me.

Obviously:laughing:

I put him on ignore.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-10-2009, 05:22 PM
I guess I answered my own question. Two names, Luis Castillo, Trevor Pryce....





Obviously:laughing:

You know, most people use the "chuckle" smilies when they say something that is actually...well...amusing.
:noidea:

Cheppy
06-10-2009, 05:28 PM
You know, most people use the "chuckle" smilies when they say something that is actually...well...amusing.
:noidea:

I was amused... Is this where you're going to kick me in the "vay-jay-jay" or are you going to copy & paste stats of 4/3 linemen & use them as a comparison to a 3/4 lineman again? (how was that a good subistitute for knowledge again?)

devilsdancefloor
06-10-2009, 08:28 PM
Wow this thread went to hell lol! Smith is a great Dlineman for us BUT sorry not HoF material sad to say. If Greenwood,Homles & White can not make it into the HOF then i really doubt Smith can. I KNOW they where a 4/3 but i am saying look i think greenwood and the gold shoes deserves to be there big time, but alas he is not.

Cheppy
06-10-2009, 09:08 PM
Wow this thread went to hell lol! Smith is a great Dlineman for us BUT sorry not HoF material sad to say. If Greenwood,Homles & White can not make it into the HOF then i really doubt Smith can. I KNOW they where a 4/3 but i am saying look i think greenwood and the gold shoes deserves to be there big time, but alas he is not.

Smith is a better player than Holmes or White ever was but I agree with you on L.C. But the thing is, is that's it's not about deserving to go in regards to has been inducted & who hasn't for what Smith does isn't even considered (generally speaking) when the voters cast their votes.

Take Heath Miller for instance. Obviously he has alot of football left but even so you know there's no way he's gonna get inducted. Yet, he's an adept pass catcher that's been utilized in the screen game & downfield throws (basically every pass pattern there is) but not to the point where he's going to compile the gaudy stats of players like Gates. Reason being is partly scheme but mainly because he's an exceptional blocker. He's so good that he takes on interior linemen & wins battles. But your average hall of fame voter won't take that into account. See where i'm going with this?

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-13-2009, 02:21 PM
I was amused...

Yes Alvin...you amuse yourself.

We are all already well aware of how much you think of yourself. You find yourself amusing. You find yourself intellectual. You find yourself informative.

I guess the rest of the forum just needs to lower themselves to the lowest common denominator....and "get you" the way that you do. :shake02:

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-13-2009, 02:22 PM
Wow this thread went to hell lol! Smith is a great Dlineman for us BUT sorry not HoF material sad to say. .


"nuff said

Couldn't agree more.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-13-2009, 02:34 PM
are you going to copy & paste stats of 4/3 linemen & use them as a comparison to a 3/4 lineman again? (how was that a good subistitute for knowledge again?)

Just another case of Rudeness over Truth.

Since you made the statement......How about you find this post that I supplied "stats of 4-3 linemen and used them as a comparison to a 3-4 lineman."

NEVER happened. There is no way around it.....Your a liar.

Lose an argument with grace instead of making things up.

Cheppy
06-13-2009, 05:00 PM
Yes Alvin...you amuse yourself.

We are all already well aware of how much you think of yourself. You find yourself amusing. You find yourself intellectual. You find yourself informative.

I guess the rest of the forum just needs to lower themselves to the lowest common denominator....and "get you" the way that you do. :shake02:

It's not being intellectual. http://www.rif.org/

Just another case of Rudeness over Truth.

Since you made the statement......How about you find this post that I supplied "stats of 4-3 linemen and used them as a comparison to a 3-4 lineman."

NEVER happened. There is no way around it.....Your a liar.

Lose an argument with grace instead of making things up.

I stand corrected. (see, i'm not above such a thing) What happened is that with all of the misplaced dreck that was being thrown my way I got you confused with Revs. What I should have referenced was this for starters:

I would be more ashamed of not letting someone else have an opinion.

Smith falls into the same category as Carnell Lake....I LOVE both as a player and since I follow the team...I appreciate what they have done. But outside of Steeler fans, Pittsburgh sportswriters and a few enlightened members of the sports community, the vast majority of voters will look at "numbers" and "popularity"...not contribution.

What the voters will see is that In his 10 year career Aaron has 281 solo tackles...95assists....and 42.0 sacks.

That averages out to 28 solo...9.5 assists...and 4.2 sacks a season. Granted, this in no way shows the true value of Smith's contribution to our team...but the sad fact is that 95% of those who will vote for the HOF will not take into consideration that he is a 3-4 DE...and that his play freed up our LB's to rack up some gaudy numbers.

Simply put...we can appreciate Aarons contribution but we shouldnt think for a second that his numbers will convince the HOF voters that he belongs in the hallowed hall.

An absolute waste of a post because you somehow got the idea in your head that I said he was going to the hall when in fact I never did. (again, for the 10th time, the thread tile is "Steelers players who won't be HOFers", & i was well aware of that when i made my initial post) And that's fine, misunderstanding the context of what people are saying on the net is commonplace. (i've done it myself) But you did it another time. Then to make matters worse, you then tried to make it seem like that was you defending your position & not the hall of fame voters. (which is a prime example of blatant backtracking)

But as I'm re-reading this dreck my last post does stand.

You kept on referring to his stats not being hall of fame worthy without judging them in the correct context: (which apparently you're still oblivious too)

*Sigh*

I provided his stats (what you want to call cut and paste)...and broke it down for you.

As much as you want to twist those stats to make them seem more than they are...it doesnt change a thing.

You have still not given ONE stat that supports your claim...in fact those stats that you gave support the claim that he DOESNT have the numbers to warrant a HOF induction.

Without the necessary stats your entire argument seems to hinge on your arbitrary logic of:

Seriously?...You think under his HOF bust they will put..."[Would have had an average of 9 sacks a season IF he was a 4-3 Defensive End"

Totally discounting the main functions of the position (run defense & occupying blockers) which he excels at arguably better than anyone who has played end in a 3/4 and the fact that by nature a person who plays that position are hard-pressed to even come close to matching the gaudy numbers of some of the great 4/3 linemen over the years.

Lose an argument with grace.

I think you should heed your own advice as you missed my "vay-jay-jay" by about two feet.

Cheppy
06-13-2009, 05:05 PM
"nuff said.

There was alot more worth discussing actually . (wait's for smith's totals to be copied & pasted again)

SteelersinCA
06-14-2009, 03:55 AM
Dang, there is a lot of bold in here. I dig it.

Rek
06-14-2009, 04:15 PM
Hmmmm....Here's my top ten list of players that should be in the hall of fame.

1) Kordell Stewart -- Enough Said.
2) Chad Scott -- No one could cover WRs like him.
3) (Tie) - Duce Staley & Najeh Davenport -- Best 1-2 RB combo the NFL has ever seen.
4) Mitch Berger -- If he doesn't make it to Canton, Ohio, there's something wrong.
5) Eric Pegram -- He made Jerome Bettis look good.
6) Troy Edwards -- Best 1st round pick ever by the Steelers. Definitely future HOFer.
7) Nate Washington -- Best hands of any receiver in the league (Next to Limas Sweed).
8) Neil O' Donnell -- He basically won Super Bowl XXX (for Dallas).
9) Anthony Smith -- I GUARANTEE you he will be in the Hall of Fame.
10) (Tie) -- Bam Morris & Tim Worley -- Doesn't get any better than those two.

:chuckle:

Psyychoward86
06-14-2009, 04:33 PM
Hmmmm....Here's my top ten list of players that should be in the hall of fame.

1) Kordell Stewart -- Enough Said.
2) Chad Scott -- No one could cover WRs like him.
3) (Tie) - Duce Staley & Najeh Davenport -- Best 1-2 RB combo the NFL has ever seen.
4) Mitch Berger -- If he doesn't make it to Canton, Ohio, there's something wrong.
5) Eric Pegram -- He made Jerome Bettis look good.
6) Troy Edwards -- Best 1st round pick ever by the Steelers. Definitely future HOFer.
7) Nate Washington -- Best hands of any receiver in the league (Next to Limas Sweed).
8) Neil O' Donnell -- He basically won Super Bowl XXX (for Dallas).
9) Anthony Smith -- I GUARANTEE you he will be in the Hall of Fame.
10) (Tie) -- Bam Morris & Tim Worley -- Doesn't get any better than those two.

:chuckle:


I sincerely endorse and support this post all the way :flap:

HometownGal
06-14-2009, 04:41 PM
Hmmmm....Here's my top ten list of players that should be in the hall of fame.

1) Kordell Stewart -- Enough Said.
2) Chad Scott -- No one could cover WRs like him.
3) (Tie) - Duce Staley & Najeh Davenport -- Best 1-2 RB combo the NFL has ever seen.
4) Mitch Berger -- If he doesn't make it to Canton, Ohio, there's something wrong.
5) Eric Pegram -- He made Jerome Bettis look good.
6) Troy Edwards -- Best 1st round pick ever by the Steelers. Definitely future HOFer.
7) Nate Washington -- Best hands of any receiver in the league (Next to Limas Sweed).
8) Neil O' Donnell -- He basically won Super Bowl XXX (for Dallas).
9) Anthony Smith -- I GUARANTEE you he will be in the Hall of Fame.
10) (Tie) -- Bam Morris & Tim Worley -- Doesn't get any better than those two.

:chuckle:

Thanks for the laughs Rek - I really need that today! :toofunny::rofl::laughing:

Rek
06-14-2009, 06:26 PM
I sincerely endorse and support this post all the way :flap:

Thanks for the laughs Rek - I really need that today! :toofunny::rofl::laughing:

What? I was serious, those guys deserve it! :tt03: :sofunny:

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-15-2009, 07:34 AM
Originally Posted by Cheppy
It's not being intellectual.

Uh...yeah...we know.

I stand corrected. (see, i'm not above such a thing)
....wait for it.
But as I'm re-reading this dreck my last post does stand

Priceless!!!!!:rofl:

An absolute waste of a post because you somehow got the idea in your head that I said he was going to the hall when in fact I never did.

Actually your argument was that he SHOULD BE in the HOF...and the reply was theat he shouldn't...but nice try at diversion


You kept on referring to his stats not being hall of fame worthy without judging them in the correct context: (which apparently you're still oblivious too)

...and AGAIN...most in this forum UNDERSTAND football. We UNDERSTAND the difference between a 3-4 and 4-3 defense, and the different responsibilities for a 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE.

Perfect post to show why you are a tool.

You came into this forum somehow thinking that YOU are the only one "enlightened" enough to fully understand the nuances of the game.,,and if anyone disagrees with you...well...they must not be able to judge stats in the "correct context"...and must be "oblivious" to the facts that only you understand.

I think you should heed your own advice as you missed my "vay-jay-jay" by about two feet.

Admitting you have one is half the battle.

As much as you want to preach reading comprehension...You failed to read the title of the social group that it was posted in...or you wouldnt have been in there.

Not all TROLLS are from other teams, you know.

BlastFurnace
06-15-2009, 08:55 AM
C'mon guys...only 4 more posts until 100.

revefsreleets
06-15-2009, 11:54 AM
Hmmmm....Here's my top ten list of players that should be in the hall of fame.

1) Kordell Stewart -- Enough Said.
2) Chad Scott -- No one could cover WRs like him.
3) (Tie) - Duce Staley & Najeh Davenport -- Best 1-2 RB combo the NFL has ever seen.
4) Mitch Berger -- If he doesn't make it to Canton, Ohio, there's something wrong.
5) Eric Pegram -- He made Jerome Bettis look good.
6) Troy Edwards -- Best 1st round pick ever by the Steelers. Definitely future HOFer.
7) Nate Washington -- Best hands of any receiver in the league (Next to Limas Sweed).
8) Neil O' Donnell -- He basically won Super Bowl XXX (for Dallas).
9) Anthony Smith -- I GUARANTEE you he will be in the Hall of Fame.
10) (Tie) -- Bam Morris & Tim Worley -- Doesn't get any better than those two.

:chuckle:

Forgot a few:

Mark Malone and Bubby Brister.
Alonzo Jackson
Scott Shields

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-15-2009, 12:24 PM
Forgot a few:

Mark Malone and Bubby Brister.
Alonzo Jackson
Scott Shields

Oh ....and never forget Jamain Stephens!!!! Only Steeler player to be cut at the end of the first day of a training camp!!!

I believe it was Greg Lloyd who watched "Stay-Puft" Stephens collapse during sprints, and "counted him out" like a boxing referee!!!!:chuckle:

....and it was the Bengals who promptly signed him to a contract shortly thereafter :rofl:

BlastFurnace
06-15-2009, 04:26 PM
How about the Washington brothers as our corners:

Sam from the 1980's and D'wayne from the 2000's.

Cheppy
06-15-2009, 05:59 PM
Uh...yeah...we know.

I'll spot you the cash if you want. (http://www.amazon.com/RIF-Guide-Encouraging-Young-Readers/dp/0385236328/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245106020&sr=1-2)


....wait for it.


Priceless!!!!!:rofl:

What makes this even funnier now:

He doesnt have the numbers to warrant an induction.

Is that I'm still right:laughing: (pats your flat head)



Actually your argument was that he SHOULD BE in the HOF...and the reply was theat he shouldn't...but nice try at diversion

Actually your original reply was this:

But outside of Steeler fans, Pittsburgh sportswriters and a few enlightened members of the sports community, the vast majority of voters will look at "numbers" and "popularity"...not contribution.

Simply put...we can appreciate Aarons contribution but we shouldnt think for a second that his numbers will convince the HOF voters that he belongs in the hallowed hall.

Thanks for doing the work for me:laughing: You then backpedaled like the rube that you are, saying I never provided stats or reasons (while incessantly using emoticons like a flustered child) which was flat-out incorrect & I never once wavered in my stance being fully aware that he'll never get inducted yet I myself believe he should. And I gave valid reasons as to why which you didn't bother to acknowledge.



...and AGAIN...most in this forum UNDERSTAND football. We UNDERSTAND the difference between a 3-4 and 4-3 defense, and the different responsibilities for a 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE.

He doesnt have the numbers to warrant an induction.

It's almost as if all I need to use is my mouse.


You came into this forum somehow thinking that YOU are the only one "enlightened" enough to fully understand the nuances of the game.,,and if anyone disagrees with you...well...they must not be able to judge stats in the "correct context"...and must be "oblivious" to the facts that only you understand.

The only one? That's not true at all. I'm not asking for yours or Revs opinion anytime soon though.


Admitting you have one is half the battle.

Zing!

As much as you want to preach reading comprehension...You failed to read the title of the social group that it was posted in...or you wouldnt have been in there.

Not all TROLLS are from other teams, you know.

I understand that's it's easier for you to think that. I mean, having someone(admittedly someone who can be an abrasive prick at times) force you to come to the realization that you're a moron has to be difficult. I say embrace your idiotic tendencies. Let that retarded flag fly! Finger Paint with feces. Let loose bra.

TheWarDen86
06-15-2009, 06:18 PM
Not all TROLLS are from other teams, you know.

Um, "ZING!"

:drink:

Amen.

Cheppy
06-15-2009, 06:19 PM
C'mon guys...only 4 more posts until 100.

We did it!

I'd like to throw Mitch Berger's name into hat.

Cheppy
06-15-2009, 06:20 PM
Um, "ZING!"

:drink:

Amen.

Oh, I saw that MTV doc on the Jersey shore & I'd rather clean toilets in an old folks home on Thanksgiving than be there in a social situation. Guido Hell On Earth.

TheWarDen86
06-15-2009, 06:22 PM
Oh, I saw that MTV doc on the Jersey shore & I wouldn't be caught dead there in a social situation. Guido Hell On Earth.


And guess where they all came from.

Cheppy
06-15-2009, 06:30 PM
And guess where they all came from.

Not from my circle I can tell you that. And Jersey has just as many guidos as Long Island does. The key is to not go where they gather.

Preacher
06-15-2009, 07:21 PM
Oh, I saw that MTV doc on the Jersey shore & I'd rather clean toilets in an old folks home on Thanksgiving than be there in a social situation. Guido Hell On Earth.

Yeah, stay real classy there.

bigoted much?

TheWarDen86
06-15-2009, 07:55 PM
Not from my circle I can tell you that. And Jersey has just as many guidos as Long Island does. The key is to not go where they gather.

Northern NJ, Staten Island and Western L.I. is where they come from. Seaside Heights is where they gather. We know them as "Bennys."
There are two stories to where that name came from:

"Bennys" was a local shore guy that rented beach umbrellas and the out-of-towners used to fill the beach with them and they all said : "Benny's"

The other belief is that it's an acronym for : Bayonne Edison Newark and New York.

Every summer they come down here and tear up our towns and kill themselves (and locals) on the Parkway. If there is a group of people on this Earth that I cannot stand, it is Patriots Fans....wait, I mean Bennys. :chuckle:

Psyychoward86
06-15-2009, 09:00 PM
This thread is a snorefest :yawn:

tony hipchest
06-15-2009, 09:19 PM
whats a guido?

:chuckle:

TheWarDen86
06-15-2009, 09:36 PM
whats a guido?

:chuckle:

Them are: :chuckle:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b215/acasula/Guidos_1.jpg

BlastFurnace
06-15-2009, 09:37 PM
Them are: :chuckle:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b215/acasula/Guidos_1.jpg

The one to the right looks like A-Rod with a new hair-du.

BlastFurnace
06-15-2009, 09:39 PM
This thread is a snorefest :yawn:

LOL...I started it with good intentions.

TheWarDen86
06-15-2009, 09:41 PM
The one to the right looks like A-Rod with a new hair-du.

I'm sure he thinks so too. :laughing:

tony hipchest
06-15-2009, 09:46 PM
Them are: :chuckle:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b215/acasula/Guidos_1.jpg

:chuckle:

dem r gotti

hey...

how do they get that tan in the northeast? i wont be that dark until mid-july atleast.

TheWarDen86
06-15-2009, 09:49 PM
:chuckle:

dem r gotti

I try not to hate, but I dis-like them very, very much. :laughing:

Cheppy
06-16-2009, 01:10 AM
bigoted much?

Against guidos? You bet your ass:laughing: Don't tell me you paint a tan on yourself in the winter?

HometownGal
06-16-2009, 07:43 AM
Guys - can we PLEASE cease with the name-calling and get back to the subject of the thread? :banging::banging::banging:

revefsreleets
06-16-2009, 09:19 AM
That picture, by the by, is from hot chicks with douchbags dot com, one of the greatest sites on the internet.

Many, if not most posters here will find their delicate sensibilities under assault there, though. It is a BRUTALLY sarcastic site.

Rek
06-17-2009, 10:19 AM
I'm calling it. This thread is dead. :tombstone

wezx
06-18-2009, 04:01 PM
Wow, I didn't realize Donnie Shell was not in the HOF...

revefsreleets
06-19-2009, 09:42 AM
I'm calling it. This thread is dead. :tombstone

It officially "jumped the shark" at the mention of Aaron Smith. But even Happy Days rolled on for a few more seasons, so....

Cheppy
06-19-2009, 02:42 PM
I pray he doesn't get hurt again and further proves me correct.

slashsteel
06-20-2009, 07:53 AM
Not defending any one poster.

I will say growing up I was taught two wrongs don't make a right.

If one poster starts in with slams and the other joins in you have two guilty parties.

( I have been guilty of jumping in to the fire, but try to refrain from feeding the hate on a consistent basis)

Not one of these posters looks ignorant for their opinions so I don't see the need for the hate flying around.

This thread is based on OPINION.

If someone thinks Aaron is deserved, I could see the logic in that. Especially what he has done for the team.

Some people think he doesn't have the numbers and I could see the logic in that.

HOF based inductions is based on career performance whether its in the regular season or post season.

I for one find it a shame that it is mostly stat based.

For there is players that were a force that in my opinion were deserved.

Aaron could be thrown into that way of thinking.

Maybe say a Greg Lloyd as well.

As well as a Kirkland.

I think Shell & Dirt one day will get in.

I don't always side with the popular opinion, the ones who know me know that.

Buy let us DEBATE WITHOUT THE HATE.

:tt:

:thumbsup:

revefsreleets
06-20-2009, 10:13 AM
Honestly, the thread is about people like Hines Ward. He'll have (close to) the right numbers. He'll have at least a couple rings, and a Super Bowl MVP. He's definitely a guy that will be close, and someone 10 years from now there will be legitimate debate both on Steelers boards and perhaps just football boards in general as to whether or not he should be in. My guess is that he will NOT get in, yet he'll have a legit case to be in. I hope I'm wrong, though...

Aaron Smith has no chance, and would never be mentioned in any legitimate and realistic discussion, not now, not later, and not ever, concerning the pro footbalkl HOF. I think there are like 40 DL in the HOF total from what, 80 years of playing? 5-7 DL on every team, 32 teams in the modern era? Thousands, maybe even 10's of thousands of DL's shuffled in and out of the NFL and 40-some have made it. They don't just let good players in, you have to be special. You have to be great!

Aaron Smith is a damned good DL. But he'll never even sniff the hall, nor does he have the playing skill or the requisite stats to even be considered. He's just not HOF-worthy, and THAT is what this thread is all about.

It's OKAY to have opinions and be opinionated, but there's a BIG difference between informed opinion and absurd assertions based on ignorance of the game and just blind homerism...hurling insults at me (and I have the dude on ignore, but can easily extrapolate that he's still doing it based on quotes and others responses) because I'm better informed and make a better case does NOT level the playing field.

Cheppy
06-20-2009, 01:49 PM
On his current pace Hines Ward will be in the all-time top 10 (at least) in receptions & receieving yards when it's all said & done. (his durability & style of play make me feel confident that he'll reach those plateaus) Couple that with the fact that in 14 playoff games he has over a 1000 recieving yards, over 70 receptions & a super bowl mvp trophy (i couldn't find his playoff td stats) & he should make it on those stats alone.

Honestly, the thread is about people like Hines Ward. He'll have (close to) the right numbers. He'll have at least a couple rings, and a Super Bowl MVP. He's definitely a guy that will be close, and someone 10 years from now there will be legitimate debate both on Steelers boards and perhaps just football boards in general as to whether or not he should be in. My guess is that he will NOT get in, yet he'll have a legit case to be in. I hope I'm wrong, though...

Stats, nothing but stats with this rube. You've just totally disregarded what separates Ward from every other past & present NFL reciever. The fact that he's the best blocking wide reciever in the history of the sport. It's Aaron Smith all over again only on the offensive side of the ball. You not being able to quanitfy, acknowledge or comprehend such important aspects of the game of football (yet you're better inofrmed:laughing:) has reached medical proportions.


Aaron Smith has no chance, and would never be mentioned in any legitimate and realistic discussion, not now, not later, and not ever, concerning the pro footbalkl HOF. I think there are like 40 DL in the HOF total from what, 80 years of playing? 5-7 DL on every team, 32 teams in the modern era? Thousands, maybe even 10's of thousands of DL's shuffled in and out of the NFL and 40-some have made it. They don't just let good players in, you have to be special. You have to be great!

Aaron Smith is a damned good DL. But he'll never even sniff the hall, nor does he have the playing skill or the requisite stats to even be considered. He's just not HOF-worthy, and THAT is what this thread is all about.

(insert every post made in this thread explaining what the main functions of the position are & watch them be conveniently ignored)

It's OKAY to have opinions and be opinionated, but there's a BIG difference between informed opinion and absurd assertions based on ignorance of the game and just blind homerism...hurling insults at me (and I have the dude on ignore, but can easily extrapolate that he's still doing it based on quotes and others responses) because I'm better informed and make a better case does NOT level the playing field.

What makes you so annoying is the fact that you throw around statements like proclaiming you have an informed opinion when throughout this entire excercise in futility you've disregarded the two main functions of the position. (literally, totally disregarded'em) All you do is go by stats which is as robotic & uninformed as it gets. (& now you're doing it with ward who's main claim to fame is something you can't copy & paste on messageboards)

It's the worst comedy routine I've ever been witness to.

Texasteel
06-20-2009, 02:13 PM
Honestly, the thread is about people like Hines Ward. He'll have (close to) the right numbers. He'll have at least a couple rings, and a Super Bowl MVP. He's definitely a guy that will be close, and someone 10 years from now there will be legitimate debate both on Steelers boards and perhaps just football boards in general as to whether or not he should be in. My guess is that he will NOT get in, yet he'll have a legit case to be in. I hope I'm wrong, though...

Aaron Smith has no chance, and would never be mentioned in any legitimate and realistic discussion, not now, not later, and not ever, concerning the pro footbalkl HOF. I think there are like 40 DL in the HOF total from what, 80 years of playing? 5-7 DL on every team, 32 teams in the modern era? Thousands, maybe even 10's of thousands of DL's shuffled in and out of the NFL and 40-some have made it. They don't just let good players in, you have to be special. You have to be great!

Aaron Smith is a damned good DL. But he'll never even sniff the hall, nor does he have the playing skill or the requisite stats to even be considered. He's just not HOF-worthy, and THAT is what this thread is all about.

It's OKAY to have opinions and be opinionated, but there's a BIG difference between informed opinion and absurd assertions based on ignorance of the game and just blind homerism...hurling insults at me (and I have the dude on ignore, but can easily extrapolate that he's still doing it based on quotes and others responses) because I'm better informed and make a better case does NOT level the playing field.

I think Ward may be hurt by all the Steelers that got in for the old teams. You look at the HOFers from the team of the 70s, and I still think there are a couple more that should be in, a more resent player will almost have to walk on water to get in. Especially with Goodell trying to get as many Patriots in as possible, man I hate that guy. I do think Ward will make it eventually.

I think your right about Smith. I love the guy, and the way he play, we can't do without him, but I don't think he will make it. How ever, I will dance a gig in my living room if he does, providing I can still stand up by the time that happens.

Cheppy
06-20-2009, 02:14 PM
but I don't think he will make it.

He won't.

slashsteel
06-20-2009, 05:34 PM
Implying someone is ignorant by not agreeing with you in regards to Aaron Smith is insulting.

So in this aspect you are just as bad as whatever he threw your way.

Saying you disagree would have been more than fine.

And I have to agree with Cheppy that Hines and Aaron both won't make it due to stats but are just as equally deserving for what they give to our team. Key ingredients in helping us win more often than not. Intangibles that can't be put on a stat sheet.

& If you think back when Smith was hurt, how did the run D fair at that time?


Casey and Aaron yearly shut down the run.

In a 3/4 that is what you must do first.

So I say that in that respect Aaron fits the title of this thread.

In closing you go ask someone like Dick Lebeau does he think Aaron deserves HOF consideration.

Ask him at training camp and report back.

I think I know what the answer would be.

And I don't think he would answer yes because he was a homer either....

Cheppy
06-20-2009, 05:46 PM
^:thumbsup:

Though I do think Ward's gonna make it both for his stats & unparrelled blocking. If I was a betting man Ward, Ben & Troy will be the players from this group to make the hall.

HometownGal
06-20-2009, 05:50 PM
Stats, nothing but stats with this rube. You've just totally disregarded what separates Ward from every other past & present NFL reciever. The fact that he's the best blocking wide reciever in the history of the sport. It's Aaron Smith all over again only on the offensive side of the ball. You not being able to quanitfy, acknowledge or comprehend such important aspects of the game of football (yet you're better inofrmed:laughing:) has reached medical proportions.

What makes you so annoying is the fact that you throw around statements like proclaiming you have an informed opinion when throughout this entire excercise in futility you've disregarded the two main functions of the position. (literally, totally disregarded'em) All you do is go by stats which is as robotic & uninformed as it gets. (& now you're doing it with ward who's main claim to fame is something you can't copy & paste on messageboards)

It's the worst comedy routine I've ever been witness to.

Are you going to cease with the name-calling or am I going to have to give you a 60 day timeout? :banging: Geez Chepster - how many times have I nicely asked you to knock it off??? :mad:

Cheppy
06-20-2009, 05:52 PM
Are you going to cease with the name-calling or am I going to have to give you a 60 day timeout? :banging: Geez Chepster - how many times have I nicely asked you to knock it off??? :mad:

It's OKAY to have opinions and be opinionated, but there's a BIG difference between informed opinion and absurd assertions based on ignorance of the game and just blind homerism...hurling insults at me (and I have the dude on ignore, but can easily extrapolate that he's still doing it based on quotes and others responses) because I'm better informed and make a better case does NOT level the playing field.

Are you profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfiltering kidding me right now?

stillers4me
06-20-2009, 05:55 PM
:popcorn:

Cheppy
06-20-2009, 05:57 PM
Implying someone is ignorant by not agreeing with you in regards to Aaron Smith is insulting.

So in this aspect you are just as bad as whatever he threw your way.

You should be a mod.

Preacher
06-20-2009, 05:58 PM
Against guidos? You bet your ass:laughing: Don't tell me you paint a tan on yourself in the winter?

"Guido" (or "Gino") is a slang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slang) term for a younger lower class or working class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_collar) Italian-American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian-American). The Guido stereotype is often portrayed as humorously thuggish with an overtly macho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macho) attitude and an unyielding pride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride) in his Italian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_people) ancestry.
In a wider sense (and not directly connected to the above term anymore) is the use of 'Guido' as a bouncer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouncer_%28doorman%29) slang term for an obnoxious club-going male.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_%28slang%29#cite_note-BNN-0)
Contents

[hide (javascript:toggleToc())]


1 Etymology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_%28slang%29#Etymology)
2 Style (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_%28slang%29#Style)
3 See also (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_%28slang%29#See_also)
4 References (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_%28slang%29#References)


[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guido_%28slang%29&action=edit&section=1)] Etymology

The term is likely derived from the proper name Guido (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_%28given_name%29), and is used in various cities associated with large Italian-American populations.
The stereotype is usually considered derogatory or an ethnic slur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_slur); however, it is, in many cases[specify (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)], used as a term for an Italian criminal in the Mafia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia) in areas where Guido culture is common[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)], much like the term "goombah (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/goombah)." In fact, "goombah" and "Guido" have often been used interchangeably[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]. However, in recent years, the term "Guido" has been applied to a certain clothing style rather than just a person of Italian ancestry[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)].

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guido_%28slang%29&action=edit&section=2)] Style

Clothing associated with the stereotype includes gold chains, working class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_collar) clothing such as plain T-shirts, muscle shirts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_shirt) or "guinea ts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_t)" (derived from the term "guinea (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/guinea)," an ethnic slur for Italians), leather jackets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather_jacket), sweat or tracksuits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracksuit), scally caps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scally_cap), unbuttoned dress shirts, and dress suits. Slicked-back hair or pompadours (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompadour_%28haircut%29) are a common stereotype, as are moustaches. Recently, heavily gelled spiked hair has become a common stereotype. The hairstyle is commonly referred to as the Blowout or Brooklyn Fade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowout_%28hair_style%29) "Brook", for short.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_%28slang%29#cite_note-1)

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guido_%28slang%29&action=edit&section=3)] See also



Any other race you'd like to insult? Any other ethnic slur you'd lke to throw out there?

fact is, you are on a PUBLIC website using a word CLOSELY associated with an ethnicity, though not always.

It is the same as if someone posted N****er or Sp*c.

Show some respect man.

HometownGal
06-20-2009, 06:13 PM
Are you profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfiltering kidding me right now?

No I'm not kidding you right now. I see from your filthy font that you haven't read the board COC. You'll have 60 days to read up on it and memorize it. :wave:

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-20-2009, 06:16 PM
You should be a mod.

Seriously ...how many more people need to tell you to knock it off before you get the hint that your attitude isnt warranted or wanted....????

Try using this forum as a means to meet other Steeler Fans instead of using it to inflate your ego. I mean, take a look...it's obviously NOT working. We are not seeing you as some sort of cultivated Steeler Fan who has graced us withy his knowledge and witty posts.

You might be the nicest person in the world.... but this forum may never know that because you are CHOOSING to take on a persona that is abrasive, pompous, and insolent.

What do you say that you start over...we are all willing to give the newer members a chance. Be yourself...be nice...and dont assume that you have the answers that the rest of us "uneducated cheppy worshipers" have been waiting and longing for.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-20-2009, 06:18 PM
Oops...looks like my advise was too late.:noidea:

Preacher
06-20-2009, 06:22 PM
Oops...looks like my advise was too late.:noidea:

GPeVbEg1DHE

:rofl:

Texasteel
06-20-2009, 08:53 PM
Oops...looks like my advise was too late.:noidea:

This guy was trying to get banned. Everybody was trying to save him and he kept swimming farther out to sea.

X-Terminator
06-21-2009, 08:31 AM
Dammit, I'm ALWAYS late whenever someone fully engages their self-destruct sequence. :doh:

Oh well. This guy has had it coming for a long time anyway. He didn't know when to shut his cyber-yapper and cut it out when he was asked at least 4 times to do so. Sucks to be him.

revefsreleets
06-22-2009, 08:52 AM
Implying someone is ignorant by not agreeing with you in regards to Aaron Smith is insulting.

So in this aspect you are just as bad as whatever he threw your way.

Saying you disagree would have been more than fine.

And I have to agree with Cheppy that Hines and Aaron both won't make it due to stats but are just as equally deserving for what they give to our team. Key ingredients in helping us win more often than not. Intangibles that can't be put on a stat sheet.

& If you think back when Smith was hurt, how did the run D fair at that time?


Casey and Aaron yearly shut down the run.

In a 3/4 that is what you must do first.

So I say that in that respect Aaron fits the title of this thread.

In closing you go ask someone like Dick Lebeau does he think Aaron deserves HOF consideration.

Ask him at training camp and report back.

I think I know what the answer would be.

And I don't think he would answer yes because he was a homer either....

Again, three things here:
1) INFORMED opinion. Aaron Smith is not HOF worthy. He's just not. If you start letting guys in based on intangibles, where do you draw the line? He doesn't have the stats, be it 3-4 OR 4-3 lineman (there are SEVERAL 3-4 DL with much better stat lines playing right now, and NONE of them with the possible exception of Seymore deserve to be mentioned as HOFers) to be considered. Opinion is fine, but you cannot seriously tell me that if my opinion that Mitch Berger deserved to be in the HOF it would carry as much weight as saying Jerome Bettis deserves to be in the HOF. As for LeBeau, my guess is that he would do the PC thing and say that ALL his defenders deserve to be in the hall. Hell, the guy himself is an all-time GREAT, and hasn't made it. HE is another guy this thread should be about, NOT Aaron Smith.
2) Insults are one thing, but calling attention to an ignorant posters ignorance is not the same as hurling some insults and dropping a couple eff bombs.
3) I don't need a lesson in the importance of Aaron Smith, his contributions or how good of a player he is. For the love of Christ, I'm SAYING he's a damned good football player. But he is NOT HOF WORTHY. Time will bear this out. He'll never be mentioned as a possible. He'll never make any final ballots. There will never be any articles written about how he was good enough and deserved to be in. There will never be any kind of public clamoring or outcry about it, even amongst Steeler faithful. It's just silly, and I pointed out the silliness of it...

Looks like the dude is banned now anyway, and no great loss...I was just surprised he surpassed 100 posts. These guys have a way of culling themselves out, and he had "ban" written all over him.

If I posted something as asinine, I would demand that somebody put me back in line, and, after the requisite (and called for) stats and facts and figures were piled up against me, I'd respectfully retract my earlier faulty conclusion. He did not.

wezx
06-22-2009, 10:51 AM
WOW...just read the last few pages...I guess I missed the fireworks!

Philosopher Ravi Zacharias is fond of saying that "when you throw mud at others, you're going to lose a lot of ground & you're hands are going to get dirty." Good advise!

I'm very glad there are active moderators on this forum. :thumbsup:

Dino 6 Rings
06-22-2009, 12:05 PM
Couple things.

First, I don't see how calling someone a Guido is that bad. I guess growing up in NJ making fun of Guidos has made me numb to the idea that they are real people. In the late 80s and early 90s you could spot them by their Black Reeboks and IROCs. Its like a nice way of calling someone an A-Hole I guess, which, for my money, is insulting, but kind of funny. Cause Guidos are pretty ridiculous. (disclaimer, mother is Italian, and I grew up with a Sicilian Step-Father so Yeah, I have a couple Guido's in my family.)

I think Ward is a clear Hall of Famer. The only debate is whether or not he is First ballot or 2nd.

Aaron Smith, sorry, not going to make it. Not unless he plays another 5 years at the same exact level he currently does and goes the pro bowl the next 5 straight seasons.

slashsteel
06-22-2009, 12:41 PM
But see that is just it..... thats YOUR opinion.

I say my opinion is every bit of informed as yours.

Hell Modell almost was voted in was he worthy?

I think Smith is HOF worthy and not every HOF member had the stats to back up their induction.

Some are based on post season performance.

Some on pro bowls.

Smith has two SB rings to his credit.

1 pro bowl in 2004

AFC Defensive Player of the Week in 2008 - Week 15

And since 2000

TOTAL DEFENSE (Fewest Yards Allowed)

1. Pittsburgh


277.8

RUSH YARDS PER GAME (Fewest Allowed)

1. Baltimore


88.4

2. Pittsburgh


89.0

Smith has a long run of excellence in regards to the run with Casey the duo has been exceptional which has highly contributed to team success. SB success.

Will Smith get inducted? Probably not.

But I am sure there is many of Pittsburgh personnel that just might agree with my spin on it.

We agree that he probably won't be inducted. But we will have to disagree on whether he is worthy or not.

And you say there is more deserved 3/4 ends playing right now?

Like who?

Who shuts down the run year after year better than Aaron that is a 3/4 end?

By stats are you referring to tackles or sacks?

They don't tell the whole story.

Read the title of this thread again.

Aaron fits that description to a tee.

revefsreleets
06-22-2009, 01:01 PM
Richard Seymour...maybe. But probably not.

So we have, what, now two people who consider Smith HOF worthy?

You just need to convince a couple hundred more people who actually vote and you're (and Smith) in like Flynn.

Never gonna happen, and there's a reason for that.

slashsteel
06-22-2009, 03:15 PM
There will be many worthy Steelers not inducted. The reason for that is how many are already in the HOF.

I never said it was going to happen. I said he was worthy IMO.

Two different monsters.

And I stated some reasons why he is worthy.

Now you are implying because people won't vote for him its because he isn't worthy.

There is some flaws in that way of thinking.

In that train of thought everyone who isn't inducted isn't worthy.

I guess this conversation has hit a road block. Because two opinions neither will change but yet both are informed opinions or not? ;)

revefsreleets
06-23-2009, 09:35 AM
I'm going by this:

A) Stats. Smith doesn't have gaudy enough stats, and probably never will. It's not the end-all, be-all, but stats matter.
B) Championships. LC Greenwood had 4, more sacks, and he's probably never getting in (he was a finalist in '06, so there is SOME hope). He also played in a 4-3 which is a "flashier" type defense for the lineman.
C) Probability. As I've pointed out, it takes more than being really super good, you have to be GREAT. Only 40-some lineman have made the hall, and 16 of those were pre-modern era, guys who played both ways. That means a scant 27 DL have made the hall. I don't have Aaron Smith rated as an all-time great. I doubt many do, in fact, I'm not sure anybody REALLY does. And that IS the criteria.
D) Extrapolating on that (because I think this is where the major disconnect comes in), there have been 10's of thousands of people who have played in the NFL over the years, but ONLY 247 have made the hall. That's a very small percentage. Only the best of the best of the best make the HOF. Do you REALLY have Aaron Smith in that group? Is he really as good as a Bruce Smith, or Deacon Jones? Reggie White of Jack Youngblood?
E) I did some searching to see who the 5 best DL in the game right now were, and could not find Aaron Smith on anyone's list. I found Shaun Rogers, Marcus Stroud, Rod Coleman, Julius Peppers, Jamaal Williams, and Richard Seymour, but no Aaron Smith. So how can a player be considered an all-time great if he's CONSISTENTLY not even considered top-5 playing right now?

MDSteel15
06-23-2009, 09:59 AM
Donnie Shell was an undrafted signee who went on to be a

1) five time pro-bowler...
2) five time All-Pro Selection...
3) team MVP in 1980
4) key player in the Steelers winning 4 Super Bowls
5) NFL strong safety career leader in interceptions at his retirement...with 51.


Shell should have been in a long time ago. Long before the bigger names of Stallworth & Swann.

:thumbsup: Totally agree with Shell... should have happened a long time ago! :banging:

MDSteel15
06-23-2009, 10:05 AM
Add this man to the list once he reitres:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a45/77717/1096937074_43257e4501.jpg

This is the most underrated defensive end in the past 20 years of the NFL! :drink:

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-23-2009, 10:09 AM
But see that is just it..... thats YOUR opinion.

I say my opinion is every bit of informed as yours.

.

The problem with Cheppy was never about his "opinion"...it was about a condescending attitude towards those who disagreed with him. Like I said in another thread...give your opinion...respect others opinions...and if you CAN'T respect others opinions then be prepared to be treated in like manner.

Poor Chep couldnt get that through his noggin.

I actually can see why Chep was making an argument for Smith...I even appreciate Cheppy's knowledge of what Smith brings to our team....Heck, I LOVE Smith myself...I just dont agree with his opinion that Smith is HOF worthy, and in Cheps mind that meant that I was not capable of "understanding"...and that I "didnt get it".

HTG puts it very well when she tells people..."if your going to throw darts..expect people to throw them back."

Chep gave his opinion...others gave their opposite opinion...Cheppy responded with condescending rudeness and then was treated accordingly.

revefsreleets
06-23-2009, 10:31 AM
I would also add that I agree that Smith is very underrated. He's a damned good DL, and has exceptional stats given that he plays on a 3-4 defense. It's also important to me that I not be seen as running the guy into the ground or undervaluing his contributions to the Steelers.

But he's not an all-time great defensive end.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-23-2009, 10:36 AM
Now you are implying because people won't vote for him its because he isn't worthy.

There is some flaws in that way of thinking.

In that train of thought everyone who isn't inducted isn't worthy.



I see where you are coming from and think I may be able to clarify.

There are three classifications of players who are not in the HOF.

1) Those who are deserving, have the numbers, but have been snubbed up to now.
example: Donnie Shell.

2) Those who dont have the gaudy numbers but whose contribution defies traditional qualifications.
example: Aaron Smith

3) Those who simply dont belong.
No example needed.


Aaron Smiths contribution does indeed go beyond his respectable stats...no argument. But I base my opinion on traditional qualifications for the HOF AND in the realization that the majority of those who vote will do the same.

MDSteel15
06-23-2009, 10:51 AM
I am definately not siding with the dearly departed Cheppy, :laughing: but if you look at our defensive play when Smith was hurt you can say he is huge factor in our D and maybe that is what he was looking at :noidea:

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-23-2009, 10:53 AM
I am definately not siding with the dearly departed Cheppy, :laughing: but if you look at our defensive play when Smith was hurt you can say he is huge factor in our D and maybe that is what he was looking at :noidea:

Problem was never his argument...it was his attitude.

tony hipchest
06-23-2009, 10:58 AM
Chep gave his opinion...others gave their opposite opinion...Cheppy responded with condescending rudeness and then was treated accordingly.not quite how i saw it, but it is what it is. i think alot of people get irked when their entire position (or opinion) is misrepresented with a post like this-

Aaron Smith has as much chance of making the HOF as you do, Cheppy.

Let's not lose sight here, people. The HOF is for the best of the best of the best.kinda funny how the one who told everyone not to lose sight, had lost sight themselves.

this thread isnt about r. seymour or other players who might make it 10-20 years down the road. its about steelers vs. current HOF'ers.

theres really not that many DL in the hall as it is, (with the most recent ones being r. white and b. smith). a. smith statistically doesnt stack up but what about someone like j. youngblood (who was a sack monster himself)? it can be said that smiths talent is just as responsible for steelers current success and dominance as youngbloods was for the 70's rams.

youngblood was responsible for deacon jones being traded, but would he bump lc greenwood out of the lineup were he a steeler? i think that is the intended discussion here.

just like assistant coaches, and special teamers, there simply isnt a place for 3-4 DE's in the hall. doesnt mean they need to be left out of the conversation altogether.

the steelers success is literally changing the way teams scout and draft. a third of the league is 3-4 now. when nfl network did its list of top 10 innovations, lebeaus zone blitz was #1. players like hampton, smith, and freaks like kirkland are integral to that, and deserve to be discussed.

after all, its off season.

revefsreleets
06-23-2009, 11:08 AM
kinda funny how the one who told everyone not to lose sight, had lost sight themselves.

I lost sight of nothing, but thanks again for letting shit from other threads cloud your otherwise pretty lucid sight in THIS forum. Not much better than Chep yourself in THAT regard...

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-23-2009, 11:15 AM
not quite how i saw it, but it is what it is. i think alot of people get irked when their entire position (or opinion) is misrepresented
.

I can only assume that you are not talking about me. I didnt misrepresent Cheppy's position. My first post to him was simply my opinion, and I was attacked and talked down to immediately.

If Cheppy had a problem with ONE person..he shouldnt have been an ass-hat to several.

fansince'76
06-23-2009, 11:20 AM
not quite how i saw it, but it is what it is.

Acting like a dick in just about every thread he posted in and telling a number of others repeatedly that they "didn't get it" simply because they didn't agree with his (in his mind only) exalted opinion had something to do with the vacation he got too.

slashsteel
06-23-2009, 05:04 PM
Do you REALLY have Aaron Smith in that group?

Overall if I am saying pass rush plus run D, probably not.

As people look at sacks more than pressures.

Aaron won't make a lot of lists. He is underrated.

Most fans will agree with that statement.


Good debate BTW, it was fun.

:tt02:

revefsreleets
06-24-2009, 09:21 AM
I'll amend this one more time.

IF Aaron Smith plays a few more years at a high level and IF Aaron Smith continue to put up the kinds of numbers he's pretty much consistently been putting up and IF Aaron Smith contributes to another 1-2 championship teams and IF Aaron Smith makes a couple more Pro Bowls it's POSSIBLE he could be considered a HOF worthy guy, and I'd still only concede that based on multiple Championships, as the hall gives considerable weight to winning titles.

That's an awful lot of if's, though.

As things stand now, I'm sticking with Shell, LeBeau and Ward as 3 guys that legitimately fit the original parameters of this thread.