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Dino 6 Rings
06-04-2009, 01:06 PM
Steelers' Roethlisberger Is Making Hall of Fame Company

Media bias never ceases to amaze me with the impact it has on viewers. I have come to believe we’re all lemmings of one form or another, or one of the proverbial Buffaloes that follows the herd over the cliff. Put it on TV, let it come from a sports announcer, read it in a paper, we believe it. If you were to listen to ESPN, FoxSports, or other media outlets, athletes like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are great quarterbacks, yet Ben Roethlisberger has to fight just to get into the discussion.

In addition, the media perpetuates labels. Remember when Ben went 13-0 as a rookie? And the announcers used the phrase “he manages the game”? Wrongfully, it’s stuck with him, despite a 32 TD, 104.1 passer rating season one year ago and two Super Bowl titles in five yars. Some of my other favorites are how Ben’s play isn’t “pretty” or it is “blue collar.”

After winning his second Super Bowl title this past February, there has finally been some collective, positive national media attention paid to Ben’s total work of effort to date. Take for instance Michael Wilbon of The Washington Post and ESPN: “If I had to win a game to save my own life I'd take Roethlisberger over everybody who played in the NFL this season, and that includes everybody named Manning. It's difficult to understand why the praise is so grudging.” - Big Ben Strikes Again - Michael Wilbon

Michael, I’ll tell you why the praise is so grudging. We’re lemmings, and too few of the media see Ben as the truly great Quarterback he’s become - a future Hall of Fame QB, based on his current trajectory and accumulated stats. And all one has to do is compare him with current, and future Hall of Fame quarterbacks to see that at this stage in his career, he’s either equal to, or better than most of them.

When you look at the following statistical comparisons, Ben fits right into the quarterback Hall of Fame crowd. Following are comparisons of Ben to Troy Aikman, John Elway, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Dan Marino. Albeit not a comparison to all QBs in the Hall, it does provide a modern-era sampling of some of the best QBs the NFL has known. Ben has played for 5 seasons, and as such I’m using the first 5 seasons of their respective careers as a point of comparison to level set the comparison.

REGULAR SEASON STATISTICAL COMPARISONS


Games Won

No QB in NFL history has won more games in his first five seasons than Ben Roethlisberger.

Ben Roethlisberger – 51
Tom Brady and Dan Marino – 48
John Elway – 46
Peyton Manning - 42
Troy Aikman – 38
Joe Montana - 28
Completion Percentage

Of these Hall of Fame quarterbacks, Ben ranks second in Completion percentage.

Joe Montana – 63.5%
Roethlisberger – 62.4%
Peyton Manning – 62.1%
Troy Aikman – 62.0%
Tom Brady – 61.6%
Dan Marino – 60.6%
John Elway – 54.1%

Passing Yardage

I find this stat particularly interesting. Pittsburgh is historically a run first offense, yet Ben is ranked third in passing yardage among these QBs. His passing attempts are lower than every QB on the list save for Montana, yet he’s ranked third in overall yardage. See Yards/Attempt and Yards/Completion below.

Peyton Manning – 20,618
Dan Marino – 19,422
Ben Roethlisberger – 14,974
John Elway – 14,835
Tom Brady – 13,925
Troy Aikman – 13,627
Joe Montana – 11,979

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/192254-steelers-roethlisberger-is-making-hall-of-fame-company

Dino 6 Rings
06-04-2009, 01:06 PM
TD Passes

In the scoring category, Ben is again ranked third among these Hall of Fame quarterbacks with 101 TDs thrown in his first five seasons. Equally as interesting is that his TD% is 5.3%, second on the list only to Dan Marino.

Dan Marino – 168 (TD% = 6.7)
Peyton Manning – 138 (TD% = 4.9)
Ben Roethlisberger – 101 (TD% - 5.3)
Tom Brady – 97 (TD% = 4.8)
John Elway – 85 (TD% = 3.9)
Joe Montana – 78 (TD% = 4.7)
Troy Aikman – 69 (TD% = 3.6)
Interceptions

Interceptions are an area where Ben is often criticized. Yet in this comparison of Hall of Fame quarterbacks, he is ranked fourth (not last), and threw 8, 11, and 31 fewer interceptions in his first 5 seasons as compared to Elway, Marino, and Manning, respectively. Also, it’s interesting to note that Peyton Manning had an interception percentage of 3.5 as compared to Ben’s 3.6.

Joe Montana – 44 (INT% = 2.7%)
Tom Brady – 52 (INT% = 2.6%)
Troy Aikman – 66 (INT% = 3.4%)
Ben Roethlisberger – 69 (INT% = 3.6%)
John Elway – 77 (INT% = 3.6%)
Dan Marino – 80 (INT% = 3.2%)
Peyton Manning – 100 (INT = 3.5%)
Yards per Attempt

Further evidence below that Ben gets the most out of his throws, averaging nearly 8 yards per attempt, a full yard per attempt above Brady and Elway.

Ben Roethlisberger – 7.9
Dan Marino – 7.8
Joe Montana and Peyton Manning – 7.3
Troy Aikman – 7.1
Tom Brady and John Elway – 6.9
Yards per Completion

Dan Marino – 12.8
John Elway – 12.7
Ben Roethlisberger – 12.6
Peyton Manning – 11.8
Troy Aikman – 11.4
Tom Brady – 11.2
Joe Montana – 7.3
Passer Rating

Obviously Dan Marino was off the charts as a pure passer. Roethlisberger keeps excellent company ranking third among the HoF quarterbacks.

Dan Marino – 94.1
Joe Montana - 90
Roethlisberger - 89.4
Tom Brady – 87.5
Peyton Manning – 85.6
Troy Aikman - 81
John Elway – 74.1

Dino 6 Rings
06-04-2009, 01:07 PM
Sack Percentage

This is the other common area of critique when it comes to Ben, his sack numbers. So many factors contribute to this number – OL performance, the health of the running back corps, the QB play, his awareness of the pocket, strength of schedule, etc. Ben’s sack numbers have increased steadily over the past five seasons as follows – 30, 23, 46, 47, and 46. The Steelers offensive line has also diminished in skill and experience along the same five year curve and has contributed to the rise in sacks. Last year’s running back corps was decimated most of the season. And yes, “he may hold the ball too long,” but that is also his strength in making big plays (see yards/completion, yards/attempt, yardage, TDs, etc).

Dan Marino – 2.6%
Peyton Manning – 3.7%
Joe Montana – 5.4%
Tom Brady – 5.5%
John Elway – 6.2%
Troy Aikman – 6.8%
Ben Roethlisberger – 9.2%
Regular Season Statistical Summary

When you consider all of these statistical categories, there is no question Ben belongs with this group. Of the nine categories, Ben finishes first two times, second once, thired four times, fourth once, and seventh (last) only once. Clearly Ben’s numbers are better than average across the board against this group of exceptional peers.

POST SEASON COMPARISONS

Hall of Fame quarterbacks are expected to lead their teams to the playoffs, and ultimately to championships. We all know that unless a QB is an exceptional QB, like Dan Marino, not having Super Bowl titles is a big detractor to Hall of Fame consideration. In comparing the list of Hall of Fame QBs and their postseason performances, Ben again rises to the top.

Playoff Games Played

Ben leads the list in terms of playoff games played by the end of year five.

Ben Roethlisberger – 10
Tom Brady – 9
John Elway – 8
Troy Aikman – 7
Dan Marino and Joe Montana – 5
Peyton Manning – 3
Playoff Wins

Only Tom Brady, who was a perfect 9-0 in his first 5 years in playoff games, surpasses Ben's 8 playoff vicotories in his first five seasons.

Tom Brady – 9
Ben Roethlisberger – 8
Troy Aikman – 6
John Elway and Joe Montana – 4
Dan Marino – 3
Peyton Manning – 0

Dino 6 Rings
06-04-2009, 01:07 PM
Playoff TDs Thrown

Ben Roethlisberger - 15
Troy Aikman and Dan Marino - 13
Tom Brady and John Elway - 11
Joe Montana - 10
Peyton Manning - 1
Total TDs thrown is a bit skewed, seeing as each of th eplayers played in a varied number of total playoff games. So to differently compare the QBs' TD effiiciencies, see th enext section, TD%.

Playoff TD Percentage

Troy Aikman - 7.0%
Joe Montana - 6.0%
Dan Marino - 5.6%
Ben Roethlisberger - 5.4%
John Elway - 4.4%
Tom Brady - 3.6%
Peyton Manning 1.0%
Playoff Interception %

Due to the varied nature of total number of games played, I've included on the interception percentages here, versus the total number of interceptions thrown.

Tom Brady - 1.0%
Peyton Manning 1.9%
Troy Aikman - 2.1%
Joe Montana - 3.6%
Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisberger - 4.3%
John Elway - 4.8%
Playoff Completion Percentage

Troy Aikman - 71.1%
Tom Brady - 62.5%
Joe Montana - 60.5%
Dan Marino - 56.0%
John Elway - 51.6%
Peyton Manning - 47.6%
Playoff QB Rating

Troy Aikman - 111.2
Joe Montana - 89.8
Tom Brady - 88.9
Ben Roethlisberger - 87.2
Dan Marino - 79.4
John Elway - 71.8
Peyton Manning - 59.1

Playoff Super Bowl Titles Won

Tom Brady - 3
Ben Roethlisberger and Troy Aikman - 2
Joe Montana - 1
John Elway, Dan Marino, and Peyton Manning - 0

Post-Season Statistical Summary

Of these six statistical categories, Ben again proves to make himself at home with this elite list of QBs. He ranks first again twice, second twice, third once, fourth twice, and fifth once. Clearly he belongs in the same discussion with these other quarterbacks.

Dino 6 Rings
06-04-2009, 01:08 PM
SUMMARY


It's almost silly at this point the lack of respcet Ben receives by fans and the media alike. There's no question, he's earned the respect that he's been missing. One of the silliest notions fans mutter is that Ben is great only because of the Steelers defense. True, the Steelers have had a great defense, but did any of them throw the balls that Ben threw? No one questioned Montana's supporting cast, or Brady's, or Aikman's - all of whom were necessary to getting their teams to Super Bowl victories. Ben, as you consider the stats laid out here, is as good a passer (or better) as any of these Hall of Fame quarterbacks at this point in his career.

In fact, based on these numbers alone, you can make the argument that in his first five years, Ben has surpassed the first five year output of Brady in many ways, and certainly all-around has outperformed Peyton's first five years.

Let the media treat the quarterbacks equally and fairly. Clearly Brady and manning were pre-ordained to be loved. And for some reasons, Ben was destined to be questioned (as Bradshaw was before him). But thankfully, numbers do not lie. Anyone with an objective eye who looks at Ben's performance as compared to these Hall of Fame quarterbacks cannot argue that he doesn't belong among the elite at this point in his young, illustrious career.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/192254-steelers-roethlisberger-is-making-hall-of-fame-company

bigjamesharrison2
06-04-2009, 01:21 PM
Great article. You certainly did your research. It's true that Ben doesn't get the recognition he deserves. Unfortunately, there
isn't a whole lot we can do about it. I suppose we'll just have
just let Ben show them how good he is...

Dino 6 Rings
06-04-2009, 01:32 PM
Great article. You certainly did your research. It's true that Ben doesn't get the recognition he deserves. Unfortunately, there
isn't a whole lot we can do about it. I suppose we'll just have
just let Ben show them how good he is...

Its not my research, just posting from the link.

The_WARDen
06-04-2009, 01:33 PM
Clearly though, he's no Carson Palmer or Tony Romo!

Cheppy
06-04-2009, 01:33 PM
Thanks for this. Really puts things into perspective.

STEELtownHAVOX
06-04-2009, 01:51 PM
He's such a game manager...lol

Give It To Abercrombie
06-04-2009, 02:07 PM
You really need to put some more thought and detail into your posts. Geesh. Hardly anything there. :wink02:

Give It To Abercrombie
06-04-2009, 02:12 PM
Ben will go down in history in that discussion. I think two things hurt him the most that led to his current state of 'overlooked'. First, he played like absolute s*** in his first Superbowl. I know, he was a freaking stud in the playoff games leading up to it (save it, you'd be preaching to the choir), but I guarantee that had an effect being his first Superbowl was won in spite of his play. Second is timing. The press would have to get off their knees and crawl out from underneath Tom Brady's desk before they noticed what Ben has been doing.

slippy
06-04-2009, 02:35 PM
nice post. but under "suber bowl titles won" montana is listed as having one. i think he has three!

Steelerfreak58
06-04-2009, 02:47 PM
Ben will be in the HoF with out a doubt. I also truly believe he will have a few more rings around those fingers as well.

DACEB
06-04-2009, 02:48 PM
nice post. but under "suber bowl titles won" montana is listed as having one. i think he has three!

i believe those stats are first 5 years

Dino 6 Rings
06-04-2009, 03:02 PM
i believe those stats are first 5 years

Yes this is all based upon the FIRST FIVE YEARS in the league as a starter.

slippy
06-04-2009, 03:07 PM
sorry.

fansince'76
06-04-2009, 03:36 PM
Clearly though, he's no Carson Palmer or Tony Romo!

Or Brett Favre! :chuckle:

Pi Kapp Steeler
06-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Yesterday on NFL live they were talking about carson palmer not being as great of a leader as he should be. They asked Herm Edwards who do you think are the best Leaders under center and Ben was 2nd behind the golden boy.

The media is starting to accept Ben in baby steps.

rbryan
06-04-2009, 04:39 PM
I think if Ben wins another 3 or 4 SB's the media just might grace him with half the praise they give the golden boy.

Is it me or has everyone else in the country forgotten that the patsies/golden boy were caught cheating red handed???

Everytime I hear some jock sniffing scribe slurping Brady's sack it makes me sick.

St33lersguy
06-04-2009, 05:04 PM
Peyton Manning – 20,618
Dan Marino – 19,422
Ben Roethlisberger – 14,974
John Elway – 14,835
Tom Brady – 13,925
Troy Aikman – 13,627
Joe Montana – 11,979

Dan Marino – 168 (TD% = 6.7)
Peyton Manning – 138 (TD% = 4.9)
Ben Roethlisberger – 101 (TD% - 5.3)
Tom Brady – 97 (TD% = 4.8)
John Elway – 85 (TD% = 3.9)
Joe Montana – 78 (TD% = 4.7)
Troy Aikman – 69 (TD% = 3.6)
Game manager my butt. I didn't realize he was ahead of all those guys in those passing stats

Tom Brady – 9 *
Ben Roethlisberger – 8
Troy Aikman – 6
John Elway and Joe Montana – 4
Dan Marino – 3
Peyton Manning – 0

Tom Brady - 3 *
Ben Roethlisberger and Troy Aikman - 2
Joe Montana - 1
John Elway, Dan Marino, and Peyton Manning - 0

That's better

Galax Steeler
06-05-2009, 04:27 AM
Nice read thanks for sharing.

TDLP
06-05-2009, 05:04 AM
You guys have overlooked one thing: Brady had to make these plays with someone shouting defensive set-ups in his ear every down. That probably put him off a fair bit. Give him a chance, honestly...

WeegiesWarriors
06-05-2009, 07:02 AM
If Phil Simms warrants Hall of Fame status then Ben will be a shoe-in barring injury.

If Ben can get to 95 career wins he's a lock. 14 guys have 95+ career wins and only 5 are not in.

2 of the 5 are Favre and Manning whom will eventually get there. The other 3 are Ken Stabler, Dave Kreig, and Drew Bledsoe. The Super Bowl wins will kick in from there to seperate Ben from those 3.

Plus as the original post(s) suggests... his stats "aint" bad either.

St33lersguy
06-05-2009, 02:49 PM
If Phil Simms warrants Hall of Fame status then Ben will be a shoe-in barring injury.

If Ben can get to 95 career wins he's a lock. 14 guys have 95+ career wins and only 5 are not in.

2 of the 5 are Favre and Manning whom will eventually get there. The other 3 are Ken Stabler, Dave Kreig, and Drew Bledsoe. The Super Bowl wins will kick in from there to seperate Ben from those 3.

Plus as the original post(s) suggests... his stats "aint" bad either.

Does Dave Kreig really have 95 wins? He has a great shot if he can keep it up. Bledsoe doesn't have enough good seasons compared to down seasons & Dave Kreig fumbled the ball way too much to warrant an induction

rich4eagle
06-05-2009, 04:51 PM
Steelers' Roethlisberger Is Making Hall of Fame Company

Media bias never ceases to amaze me with the impact it has on viewers. I have come to believe we’re all lemmings of one form or another, or one of the proverbial Buffaloes that follows the herd over the cliff. Put it on TV, let it come from a sports announcer, read it in a paper, we believe it. If you were to listen to ESPN, FoxSports, or other media outlets, athletes like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are great quarterbacks, yet Ben Roethlisberger has to fight just to get into the discussion.

In addition, the media perpetuates labels. Remember when Ben went 13-0 as a rookie? And the announcers used the phrase “he manages the game”? Wrongfully, it’s stuck with him, despite a 32 TD, 104.1 passer rating season one year ago and two Super Bowl titles in five yars. Some of my other favorites are how Ben’s play isn’t “pretty” or it is “blue collar.”

After winning his second Super Bowl title this past February, there has finally been some collective, positive national media attention paid to Ben’s total work of effort to date. Take for instance Michael Wilbon of The Washington Post and ESPN: “If I had to win a game to save my own life I'd take Roethlisberger over everybody who played in the NFL this season, and that includes everybody named Manning. It's difficult to understand why the praise is so grudging.” - Big Ben Strikes Again - Michael Wilbon

Michael, I’ll tell you why the praise is so grudging. We’re lemmings, and too few of the media see Ben as the truly great Quarterback he’s become - a future Hall of Fame QB, based on his current trajectory and accumulated stats. And all one has to do is compare him with current, and future Hall of Fame quarterbacks to see that at this stage in his career, he’s either equal to, or better than most of them.

When you look at the following statistical comparisons, Ben fits right into the quarterback Hall of Fame crowd. Following are comparisons of Ben to Troy Aikman, John Elway, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Dan Marino. Albeit not a comparison to all QBs in the Hall, it does provide a modern-era sampling of some of the best QBs the NFL has known. Ben has played for 5 seasons, and as such I’m using the first 5 seasons of their respective careers as a point of comparison to level set the comparison.

REGULAR SEASON STATISTICAL COMPARISONS


Games Won

No QB in NFL history has won more games in his first five seasons than Ben Roethlisberger.

Ben Roethlisberger – 51
Tom Brady and Dan Marino – 48
John Elway – 46
Peyton Manning - 42
Troy Aikman – 38
Joe Montana - 28
Completion Percentage

Of these Hall of Fame quarterbacks, Ben ranks second in Completion percentage.

Joe Montana – 63.5%
Roethlisberger – 62.4%
Peyton Manning – 62.1%
Troy Aikman – 62.0%
Tom Brady – 61.6%
Dan Marino – 60.6%
John Elway – 54.1%

Passing Yardage

I find this stat particularly interesting. Pittsburgh is historically a run first offense, yet Ben is ranked third in passing yardage among these QBs. His passing attempts are lower than every QB on the list save for Montana, yet he’s ranked third in overall yardage. See Yards/Attempt and Yards/Completion below.

Peyton Manning – 20,618
Dan Marino – 19,422
Ben Roethlisberger – 14,974
John Elway – 14,835
Tom Brady – 13,925
Troy Aikman – 13,627
Joe Montana – 11,979

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/192254-steelers-roethlisberger-is-making-hall-of-fame-company

Great post! If you think the media is filling your brain with feces about football...........just think about politics. We boomed under Clinton and Peace. He is abhorred. Everything went in the crapper under Bush and we could not win a war against NO ONE and never a bit of media consternation.

But OH my Obama now our new President is under scrutiny for everything every day....especially FISCAL matters.................after he inherited the biggest fiscal disaster since the great depression............and still the media CANNOT get the guts to say HOW bad the last ADMIN was:tt02::tt02:

Dino 6 Rings
06-05-2009, 05:10 PM
Great post! If you think the media is filling your brain with feces about football...........just think about politics. We boomed under Clinton and Peace. He is abhorred. Everything went in the crapper under Bush and we could not win a war against NO ONE and never a bit of media consternation.

But OH my Obama now our new President is under scrutiny for everything every day....especially FISCAL matters.................after he inherited the biggest fiscal disaster since the great depression............and still the media CANNOT get the guts to say HOW bad the last ADMIN was:tt02::tt02:

Ummm....yeah...politics in the Locker Room please.

triphahn
06-05-2009, 07:39 PM
When he stepped in for an injured Maddox and went 15-1 his rookie season I thought he was special. But really when he made the saving tackle against the Colts in the playoffs that was when I really started believing he was a player of destiny. The next great Steelers quarterback.