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View Full Version : The Bigger Play- Holmes or Fleury?!


Preacher
06-13-2009, 02:00 AM
So Holmes catches the ball to win the SB, Fleury pushes across the goal face to flop in front of the shot and save a goal...

Which is the bigger play? Both of them saved a Championship win.

tony hipchest
06-13-2009, 02:12 AM
both holmes and harrison might share the title of greatest or most significant play in sb history.

fleury stopped a puck.

no question, it is holmes.

but oh what a save it was. it was 100% open net, and lidstrom had about 50% to shoot at by the time fleury reacted.

BlockMonsta
06-13-2009, 02:20 AM
Got give credit to Fleury for bouncing back after the other games in Detroit..Both huge play's.

Petesburgh66
06-13-2009, 02:36 AM
IMO, Holmes as he had the more difficult play to make.

wootawnee
06-13-2009, 02:45 AM
Holmes made a finess/skill play............Harrison made an all heart/effort play......

Me personally I would take the all heart/effort play all day any day over finness/skill.....

The warrior.........

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/nfl.james.harrison.run/images/15.new.1.jpg

JackHammer
06-13-2009, 04:59 AM
These are hairs that I'm not willing to split. They both came in the most enormous of moments and both were incredibly clutch. I'd say the Holmes catch is a great feat of hand-eye coordination(to make the catch) and body control(to stay in bounds), while the Fleury save was a great feat of reaction time(to read and react to that rebound) and body control(goalies aren't supposed to be able to get across the crease like that without getting up. He did all of that FROM the butterfly position. UNBELIEVABLE.). I hate to compare them because it's apple and oranges, but if I had to I'd really say that they're both on equal ground as absolutely EPIC game saving plays, and two of the GREATEST plays in the history of our great sports town, THE CITY OF CHAMPIONS!!!!

Galax Steeler
06-13-2009, 05:59 AM
They was both great plays but I give the edge to Holmes. That was one of the best plays I have seen in a long time. I have to admit that Fleury played one heck of a game last night. He made some great saves to help the Pens.

AllD
06-13-2009, 07:19 AM
It took Fleury to play his best game of the season to win Game 7. This team came of age in this game. It is a young and talented team which should keep them competitive for awhile. Just start at the top with ML and you know why. Very similar to the Rooneys style.

T Bradshaw
06-13-2009, 09:07 AM
Harrison, no doubt, the INT ws worth 14 points

There are so many idiots on the internet boards that dont understand this

How many time have you seen a LB return an INT 100 yards for TD? the play took 18 plus seconds

Psyychoward86
06-13-2009, 10:17 AM
Holmes' catch, mostly because i hardly watch any sports besides football.

T.Richardson
06-13-2009, 01:15 PM
Harrison, no doubt, the INT ws worth 14 points

There are so many idiots on the internet boards that dont understand this

How many time have you seen a LB return an INT 100 yards for TD? the play took 18 plus seconds

not many, but I have seen sooo many people return ints for TD's from 90+ yards. Holmes catch is a one in a lifetime opportunity. Its "The Catch II" behind Clarks catch for the 9ers to me.

But Harrisons play did help save the game for Pittsburgh though.

Indo
06-13-2009, 04:10 PM
I guess I'm a little confused...
the question was HOLMES or FLEURY --- not Harrison

and I have to agree with JackHammer above. It's apples and oranges. Without either one we are not The City Of Champions once again.

thumper
06-13-2009, 05:57 PM
So Holmes catches the ball to win the SB, Fleury pushes across the goal face to flop in front of the shot and save a goal...

Which is the bigger play? Both of them saved a Championship win.

Holmes by a land slide. First of all, it was more clear cut; that catch by Holmes won the Super Bowl. Second, as cool as Pens hockey is, it's not the NFL and it's not the Steelers, so there is no comparison. How many losses by the Pens ruins your week? None. Steelers? They can. Big difference.

RoethlisBURGHer
06-13-2009, 06:21 PM
Holmes catch by a hair.

The catch by Holmes won the Super Bowl. If he doesn't make that catch, we most likely lose the game.

However, if Fleury doesn't block that shot, the game is tied and goes to OT. It wasn't going to be the winning goal of Game 7, just the goal to tie it.

Preacher
06-13-2009, 06:23 PM
Holmes by a land slide. First of all, it was more clear cut; that catch by Holmes won the Super Bowl. Second, as cool as Pens hockey is, it's not the NFL and it's not the Steelers, so there is no comparison. How many losses by the Pens ruins your week? None. Steelers? They can. Big difference.


That is a little egocentric...

For those who are hockey first... many of them could probably care less about a Steelers loss.

Within its own confines, that save, with just a few seconds left on the clock, after 7 brutal games against this team, in a hostile arena, was HUGE. I don't know if the Pens are able to come back and win it in overtime if that goal is made.

Don't forget, in the SB, it is just the opposite. That was a second down pass. We had another shot at the endzone and THEN Jeff Reed to kick a field goal if we don't make it. WHile the catch was huge, it wasn't do or die, we had two more shots.

In the end, I give it to Holmes-- but it is close.

Tell you this much, The pictures of Holmes and his catch and Fleury and his save will be sitting side by side for quite sometime.

Godfather
06-13-2009, 06:47 PM
I'd give it to Flower by a hair because Flower's play ended the game whereas we still had to stop the Cardinals after the Catch.

The save was the equivalent of stripping the ball from Warner's hand.

Hammer Of The GODS
06-13-2009, 07:01 PM
I gotta go with "THE SAVE".

Why?

Simple, in the comparison of the two, Holmes had to have Ben make that pinpoint throw.

Fleury on the other hand made that save solo.

Play for play you gotta go with the guy who had no help. IMO

Great question though. Is sure is GREAT that we get to argue it. :thumbsup:

.

Preacher
06-13-2009, 07:06 PM
I gotta go with "THE SAVE".

Why?

Simple, in the comparison of the two, Holmes had to have Ben make that pinpoint throw.

Fleury on the other hand made that save solo.

Play for play you gotta go with the guy who had no help. IMO

Great question though. Is sure is GREAT that we get to argue it. :thumbsup:

.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

FUnny, When Mario played, I hated the penguins... I always considered Mario a whining prima dona (not to discount what he went through, and continued to play at his calibur... there is no discounting that). However, with these new kids, and the more physical style of the Penguins now-a-days, I have taken to liking them, behind my Vancouver Canucks.

steel striker
06-13-2009, 07:40 PM
I would say it was Holmes but, you have to give major props to Fleury for the way he shut the door on the wings in that game 7 especially at the end of the game. Both help bring championships to the burgh.

HometownGal
06-13-2009, 07:49 PM
Neither. I'd have to go with Rob Scuderi's humungous "save" with his skate in the waning seconds of Game #6 which preserved the Pens win and made Game #7 possible. :hatsoff:

wootawnee
06-13-2009, 07:57 PM
I would rather call it a Rothlisberger pass.......I think there are alot more people in the world who could have made that catch.......I think only one can throw that pass in that situation........Not to take anything away from Tone.......I think we should label it........http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/02/02/article-0-034482E6000005DC-716_468x385.jpg



"THE PASS"

wootawnee
06-13-2009, 08:05 PM
The last drive reminds me of Harrison's td.........There were like that many individual plays James had to do to get down the field and score........All into one play.....It was like a drive.........And it also reminds me of life in a way.......A long way to go with a bunch of hurdles the length of it......And in the end you are way tired......And it went way too fast......And at times it seems like it took forever to do........That play was epic........Ben's and Holmes was "just" in the end of the game to win.......That part is what made it so special........Other wise it is just a Td toss in the back corner of the endzone.............While Harrisons return was just plain epic.........Who ever had a return like that in all of football in any game?.......

JodieBoy75
06-14-2009, 06:35 AM
Hello All,

I'm new to this site, but want to put My 3 cents in. Both Plays were outstanding, but I have to go with Holmes here. Reason is simple, NHL has a playoff series with lots of chances to do something great. What S Holmes did was in one game with much more limited chances to be great! You think about it?

GBMelBlount
06-14-2009, 07:35 AM
I think Harrison's play, Ben's pass (& Scuderi's save) were ALL amazing........but I gotta go with Holmes.

It was all about Holmes making a full possession fingertip catch with both toes down AND in bounds.

THAT took incredible athleticism & complete focus, not just an athletic action or reaction.

Preach, Hammer, I love you both but I don't care whether the ball came out Ben's hand or Brady's ass, once the ball left Ben's hand it became an object that Holmes made an incredible play on......

Dino 6 Rings
06-14-2009, 01:38 PM
It was a great save by Fluery, but it was to prevent a tie, which could have cost them the game...also, it allowed the Pens to win game 7 on the road and return the favor of skating the cup around on the other team's ice...so for what it was, it was a gigantic save....

Holmes catch however, was on the game winning drive of the biggest game in the NFL with all the pressure of a huge game and he had just dropped the pass on the previous play so he was under a ton of pressure to make the play. Ben was scrambling and there were 3 guys in the area and it had to be a perfect pass and perfect catch and perfect toe tap...so as an actual physical acheivement it seems to me the TD in the Super Bowl was the better "play".

But both brought Titles to the City, which is Awesome!!!

Rek
06-14-2009, 09:29 PM
Holmes' catch, mostly because i hardly watch any sports besides football.

I'm partial to curling and synchronized swimming myself.

Preacher
06-15-2009, 12:08 AM
It was a great save by Fluery, but it was to prevent a tie, which could have cost them the game...also, it allowed the Pens to win game 7 on the road and return the favor of skating the cup around on the other team's ice...so for what it was, it was a gigantic save....

Holmes catch however, was on the game winning drive of the biggest game in the NFL with all the pressure of a huge game and he had just dropped the pass on the previous play so he was under a ton of pressure to make the play. Ben was scrambling and there were 3 guys in the area and it had to be a perfect pass and perfect catch and perfect toe tap...so as an actual physical acheivement it seems to me the TD in the Super Bowl was the better "play".

But both brought Titles to the City, which is Awesome!!!

See, that's just the thing though. this is game 7. Game 7's are like playing the SB AFTER you have just played the same team throughout the playoffs, and lost as many as you won. Furthermore, there was a massive scramble around the net, and that save came ONLY because the goalie, who HADN'T played his best in a couple previous games, was able to track and react. Don't forget, this is all done on SKATES... on ICE. So in actual physical achievement, neither player could have done it in the other sport.

For some reason, I am partial to the catch rather than the save. But that is because while hockey is my favorite sport, I am more partial to the steelers than any other team in any sport.

pancake
06-15-2009, 03:08 AM
These are hairs that I'm not willing to split. They both came in the most enormous of moments and both were incredibly clutch. I'd say the Holmes catch is a great feat of hand-eye coordination(to make the catch) and body control(to stay in bounds), while the Fleury save was a great feat of reaction time(to read and react to that rebound) and body control(goalies aren't supposed to be able to get across the crease like that without getting up. He did all of that FROM the butterfly position. UNBELIEVABLE.). I hate to compare them because it's apple and oranges, but if I had to I'd really say that they're both on equal ground as absolutely EPIC game saving plays, and two of the GREATEST plays in the history of our great sports town, THE CITY OF CHAMPIONS!!!!

Nice breakdown, I will agree with you.

El-Gonzo Jackson
06-15-2009, 12:18 PM
I would rather call it a Rothlisberger pass.......I think there are alot more people in the world who could have made that catch.......I think only one can throw that pass in that situation........Not to take anything away from Tone.......I think we should label it......

"THE PASS"

So.........Jackie Smith dropping a TD pass in Super Bowl should be blamed on Roger Staubach for not throwing a better pass???

Holmes catch and getting both feet down was much more difficult than Ben throwing the football out there after his first 2 reads were covered.

I still vote for Holmes. Fleury's save kind of reminded me of Clint Eastwood in "In The Line of Fire" diving to take a bullet. Not one of the most skillful saves I have ever seen, but rather despiration. If somebody with better hands (Zetterberg, Hossa, Datsyk, Franzen) gets to that puck, its a goal. Congrats to the Pens!!

ricksteelers55
06-15-2009, 01:31 PM
That is a little egocentric...

For those who are hockey first... many of them could probably care less about a Steelers loss.

Within its own confines, that save, with just a few seconds left on the clock, after 7 brutal games against this team, in a hostile arena, was HUGE. I don't know if the Pens are able to come back and win it in overtime if that goal is made.

Don't forget, in the SB, it is just the opposite. That was a second down pass. We had another shot at the endzone and THEN Jeff Reed to kick a field goal if we don't make it. WHile the catch was huge, it wasn't do or die, we had two more shots.

In the end, I give it to Holmes-- but it is close.

Tell you this much, The pictures of Holmes and his catch and Fleury and his save will be sitting side by side for quite sometime.

Yeah maybe but this site is Steelersfever right ? not Penguinsfever although a lot of people love both sports it is Steelers first here and so of course no loss by any other sports team will hurt as much as a steelers loss

Preacher
06-15-2009, 06:10 PM
Yeah maybe but this site is Steelersfever right ? not Penguinsfever although a lot of people love both sports it is Steelers first here and so of course no loss by any other sports team will hurt as much as a steelers loss

if you are talking about for an individual person, you are correct. BUt I am asking about which one is the greater play. That means which one meant more to its individual team, was that "snapshot moment" that makes or breaks a game, and is supported by athleticism, skill, and shear determination.

So who cares what "site" its on. I didn't ask about how it affected AN INDIVIDUAL. I asked about which one was the bigger play, PERIOD.

jjpro11
06-16-2009, 11:36 PM
i don't know if you can properly compare the two.. but i will say this.

when you add in all the circumstances, the odds of you ever seeing a save the magnitude of Fleury's again in your lifetime are slim to none... the desperation of diving across the goal crease to make the save, final seconds of the 3rd period in game 7 of the SCF, up by one goal, on the road, against the defending champs, shot was from Nick Lindstrom (future HOF and captain).. then you have the 2-0 deficit in the series, the horrible game 5, losing the best player in the world for the rest of the game.

now the circumstances surrounded with Holmes' catch are awesome as well. the long drive, the level of difficulty of the catch, dropping a TD immediately before it, and of course winning the Super Bowl with the catch. but we have seen a game winning catch in the SB before, and surely will again. for the perfect movie script, he makes the catch with no time left on the clock and down by 5 points.

Fleury's save was pretty much as good as it can possibly get other than a game winning goal in overtime or in the dying seconds of game 7. but to preserve a Stanley Cup victory, you will never see a better play.

XxKnightxX
06-17-2009, 10:57 AM
not many, but I have seen sooo many people return ints for TD's from 90+ yards. Holmes catch is a one in a lifetime opportunity. Its "The Catch II" behind Clarks catch for the 9ers to me.

But Harrisons play did help save the game for Pittsburgh though.

Sorry to make things bitter for you, but that sig should have a Braves Uniform on it. But yeah Homes Catch was more important since it was a historic TD grab in one of the biggest games in sports history. While Fleurys save is just as good, I like both to be really honest, especially with Fleury playing the way he was in Detroit , a place where he was getting pounded throughout the series.

Steel Head
06-17-2009, 11:21 AM
I'll go with Holmes

Dino 6 Rings
06-17-2009, 12:06 PM
To me, Fluery's last save diving to his right to block that shot, was more an act of desperation that a great single person play. Holmes catch was years of fine tuning his game and being perfect when he needed to be big perfect with every aspect of the catch.

They are both huge plays, but still, I go with the Holmes catch because it was done exactly how it was supposed to be done. Fluery...honestly...got kind of lucky.

Preacher
06-17-2009, 05:14 PM
To me, Fluery's last save diving to his right to block that shot, was more an act of desperation that a great single person play. Holmes catch was years of fine tuning his game and being perfect when he needed to be big perfect with every aspect of the catch.

They are both huge plays, but still, I go with the Holmes catch because it was done exactly how it was supposed to be done. Fluery...honestly...got kind of lucky.


But in the end, haven't both of them perfected their craft enough that you can call both situations reaction?

Dino 6 Rings
06-17-2009, 05:27 PM
But in the end, haven't both of them perfected their craft enough that you can call both situations reaction?

Maybe, but the first shot on Fluery, that was "craft" the second diving save...instinctive luck out of desperation.

7SteelGal43
06-17-2009, 06:01 PM
That is an extremely hard call imho. Thank goodness there is room in sports history for both plays. And, thank goodness both plays happened :D

7SteelGal43
06-17-2009, 06:03 PM
I'll go with Holmes

I'll go with both. And btw, Steel Head, your avatar is a tatoo on my upper left arm :tt03: GO STEELERS

7SteelGal43
06-17-2009, 06:10 PM
Holmes catch and getting both feet down was much more difficult than Ben throwing the football out there after his first 2 reads were covered.


hold the phone there, El Gonzo, I'll take nothing away from Holmes and his amazing amazing effort to make that catch. However, to say Bens pass wasn't equally as important to making that play possible......lesse, he had to throw it just out of fingertip range of defenders without putting it to far out so Holmes can catch it and keep both feet in bounds. Do you have any idea what a pinpoint accurate throw that had to be just for it be possible ?

stillers4me
06-17-2009, 06:14 PM
I'm extremely happy both plays happened and we canargue from now til the sun goes down which was better! It's good to be a Pittsburgh sports fan!

Cheppy
06-17-2009, 06:25 PM
James Harrison's 100 Yard Int Return.

Cheppy
06-17-2009, 06:26 PM
hold the phone there, El Gonzo, I'll take nothing away from Holmes and his amazing amazing effort to make that catch. However, to say Bens pass wasn't equally as important to making that play possible......lesse, he had to throw it just out of fingertip range of defenders without putting it to far out so Holmes can catch it and keep both feet in bounds. Do you have any idea what a pinpoint accurate throw that had to be just for it be possible ?

One of the most accurate & epic throws in NFL History. An absolute BB.

steelerdave1969
06-17-2009, 06:37 PM
Not much on hockey here.. so I would definitely say Santonio Holmes was the biggest and best play

Cheppy
06-17-2009, 08:57 PM
not many, but I have seen sooo many people return ints for TD's from 90+ yards. Holmes catch is a one in a lifetime opportunity. Its "The Catch II" behind Clarks catch for the 9ers to me.

It's the longest play in the 43 year history of the Super Bowl & you have to take into account that the Cards were on the goalline with just seconds left in the half, (& all of the momentum) it was a 14 point swing (& we won by just a 4 point margin) & the play was still in progress when the half ended. (if he didn't score we wouldn't have even gotten 3 points)

And it was a 100 yard run not made by a running back, wide reciever or defensive back, but by a linebacker. (the defensive player of the year no less)

It's as unique & significant of a play that there is.

KYsteelfan
06-17-2009, 10:41 PM
both were amazing. fleury deserves all kinds of credit for coming back and playing the way he did in game 6 and 7, and that save was spectacular. but i have to give it to holmes. he diesnt make that catch and theres a chance that we dont win at all. fleury saved the lead. i think holmes made the biggest play. but isnt it awesome that we get to debate which championship moment is the greatest? lol

wezx
06-18-2009, 05:12 PM
These types of debates always seem pointless to me. All the plays mentioned were amazing and absolutely necessary to achieve victory. Ranking them in order seems academic at best.

SteelersTilIDie
06-18-2009, 10:27 PM
equally big because they both essentially won a championship

BehindSteelCurtain
06-18-2009, 10:40 PM
There is no right or wrong answer. Both won the game.

Preacher
06-18-2009, 10:49 PM
These types of debates always seem pointless to me. All the plays mentioned were amazing and absolutely necessary to achieve victory. Ranking them in order seems academic at best.

There is no right or wrong answer. Both won the game.


Eactly BHC....


and the point of the thread, wezx... Is for discussion. This is a chat forum, and Pittsburgh just experienced to of the greatest plays in the biggest games of the existence of Pittsburgh, and that is saying A LOT when you have think about Pittsburgh historical sports teams.

tony hipchest
06-19-2009, 12:14 AM
i havent watched hockey nearly as religiously as the nfl and of course national media attention pales in comparrisson.

is fleurys save being called and debated as one of the greatest plays in nhl finals history?

unfortunately for hockey, it instantly took a back seat to the lakers and even tiger woods in the us open, whereas the sb was discussed and glorified for weeks.

with that being said, the turnout at the victory parade suggests the penguins winning was a pretty big deal.

the "bigger" play all depends on who it was biger for...

the nation?
the respective sport?
the team who almost left town?
the individual fan?
the community?

wezx
06-19-2009, 01:53 AM
Discuss away...just merely expressing the viewpoint that they are unrankable.

I meant no disrespect.