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Steeldude
06-16-2009, 03:57 PM
this guy constantly harasses and antagonizes the police and border patrol in his videos. he will lie and exaggerate the incident in the hopes of fooling the gullible.

Ku-p2U0dKX0

theplatypus
06-16-2009, 04:37 PM
What a tool

Godfather
06-16-2009, 05:49 PM
Don't taze me bro!

SteelersMongol
06-16-2009, 10:27 PM
Moron who's got 2 much time in his hand.

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 01:04 PM
I'm curious when that video was made. An AR-15 is sort of overkill to be walking around the street with. If it was right after 9-11 I get it.

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 02:23 PM
I'd be pretty concerned if I saw cops carrying bazookas in my area, maybe I'm crazy.

Steeldude
06-17-2009, 02:59 PM
I'm curious when that video was made. An AR-15 is sort of overkill to be walking around the street with. If it was right after 9-11 I get it.

he is at phoenix international airport

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 04:07 PM
he is at phoenix international airport

Maybe PHO is rough but they don't carry AR-15s in SD or LA airports. Assault weapons are generally poor weapons of choice in highly populated areas.

The_WARDen
06-17-2009, 04:11 PM
Maybe PHO is rough but they don't carry AR-15s in SD or LA airports. Assault weapons are generally poor weapons of choice in highly populated areas.

Unless you subscrive to the philosophy of 'Kill them all and let god sort'em out'

SteelersinCA
06-17-2009, 11:24 PM
I do not.

tony hipchest
06-18-2009, 12:21 AM
lol.

i didnt see nothing harrassing about it. i found it kinda funny. the airport cop seemed like kind of a dick to me.

i was freaking harrassed by a cop the other day. i got a ticket for going 45 in a 35. it was 4pm and i was stopping by wal-mart on my way home from work to pick up some groceries.

its bad enough the last time i was ticketed in this damn po-dunk town was 20 year ago for riding a skateboard in the street, but this bastard had the nerve to ask me where i was going!

its 4pm... im in my company ride wearing a company polo,,, its pretty obvious that in this thriving metropolis of 35,000 people, i am either going home, going to work, going to wal-mart (i got pulled over right before an entrance to the parking lot), or going to a freaking bar. what does it f'in matter anyways?

i gotta get rid of these texas plates. nm "officers" just love ticketing texans (and i cant blame them, but i was sure mr. bigdick was gonna let me off with a warning once he realized i was a local).

i coulda dropped a few names, but its just not my style.

plus the 45 year old douche on patrol, *snickers* probably needs to go home and tell his wife and 2 kids how he protected the community from the evil republic of texas.

(and yes, i was speeding, but i was keeping pace with "traffic" right behind 2 cars with NM plates).

I do not.

"hippie lib..." :wink02:

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
06-18-2009, 12:46 AM
(and yes, i was speeding, but i was keeping pace with "traffic" right behind 2 cars with NM plates).





and he was just doing his job... no harassment there.

tony hipchest
06-18-2009, 01:14 AM
and he was just doing his job... .writing me a ticket was his job. asking me where i was going was none of his business.

and it was every bit within my right to tell him as much. wtf did he expect me to say?

"to the local bank to rob it"?

"to my crack dealers house"?

'i was chasing that speeding vehicle with NM plates"?

dont let barney fife fool ya.

it was straight up profilin'. but he was too old, proud, and new on the job, to let it slide.

like i said, i could easilly named drop or make a call to his supervisor, but i got caught "fair n square".

its all part of the "game" right?

which brings us back to the main topic of the thread...

no harassment there

SteelersinCA
06-18-2009, 02:09 AM
'i was chasing that speeding vehicle with NM plates"?



I love it!

What makes people think you can't video a cop or have the right to ask them questions? I debate with myself regularly when I see a cop speeding if I should try to effectuate a citizens arrest on them. They have to follow the same laws we do. They do not get a special pass because they have a badge. (unless the lights are on and they are in pursuit) I love how people slow down when cops come up on them, I match speed with them, if they can do it why can't I? When he pulls me over I'll tell them I'm arresting him for speeding!!! Then when you get hauled into court you request their dispatch logs to show they weren't on a call or in pursuit and speeding just like you. It's great fun. I can't wait to try it, alas I haven't been pulled over yet. :sigh:

steelwall
06-18-2009, 04:27 AM
it was straight up profilin'. but he was too old, proud, and new on the job, to let it slide.
]


On what bases do you feel you were profiled? Because of your plates? Just curious....

Steeldude
06-19-2009, 08:18 AM
i didnt see nothing harrassing about it. i found it kinda funny. the airport cop seemed like kind of a dick to me

demanding answers, mocking and lying about the officer's actions is not harassment?

Steeldude
06-19-2009, 08:21 AM
What makes people think you can't video a cop or have the right to ask them questions

what makes people think cops need to answer pointless questions?

in case anyone wants to know, the guy filming is known for harassing police officers and trying to instigate fights/arguments.

Steeldude
06-19-2009, 08:26 AM
They have to follow the same laws we do

lmao...who told you that?

I match speed with them, if they can do it why can't I

simple answer, you are not a cop. he could be pacing traffic or on a call. also, he does not need to have his lights on to speed. turning the lights on is not always a good idea. it's at the officer's discretion.

Steeldude
06-19-2009, 08:37 AM
here is another video involving this same nut. here he is harassing the border patrol and a deputy who arrives a little later. the action doesn't really start until about 2:30 mark

the nut is the man holding the sign at 2:41

kantS-kzIWU

in this video below he and his group harass the deputy who arrives on the scene. the deputy is polite and courteous throughout the incident.

qtEW_O2berk

btw, the guy is a pastor :rofl:

SteelersinCA
06-19-2009, 12:23 PM
lmao...who told you that?



simple answer, you are not a cop. he could be pacing traffic or on a call. also, he does not need to have his lights on to speed. turning the lights on is not always a good idea. it's at the officer's discretion.

Maybe I missed the set of laws written specifically for police? Can you send me a link? You did notice how I said if they aren't on a call right?

Do you get equally upset when police ask citizens pointless questions? If I saw a police officer walking down my street with an AR-15, I would not hesitate to ask why he was carrying it and is there something I should be aware of. I think that is well within my right as a citizen. If he doesn't want to answer, fine that's on him, but I have every right to ask. The police aren't some secret organization that doesn't have to answer to the citizens they swear to protect.

SteelersinCA
06-19-2009, 01:18 PM
Here are some BPA "harassing" the BP, those nuts. :rolleyes:

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/printDS/240188

SteelersinCA
06-19-2009, 01:27 PM
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Here's the BPA and DPS harassing your "nut." Hmmmm.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/04/17/20090417borderbeating0417-ON.html

What started as a business trip to San Diego has turned Tempe resident Steven Anderson into online crusader as his emotional video detailing his detention and abuse at the hands of Border Patrol agents and state Department of Public Safety officers has made its way around the Internet.

Anderson has a history of run-ins with authorities, several of which he has chronicled on youtube.

In the most recent video, both agencies say they are conducting internal investigations into an incident that took place Tuesday night at a checkpoint on Interstate 8 about 70 miles east of Yuma.

According to Anderson's video, which has been viewed more than 100,000 times since it was posted on youtube.com on Wednesday, the trouble started when he refused to consent to Border Patrol agents searching his car.

“I have the right to travel in this country without being stopped and searched and grilled and interrogated,” Anderson said. The 27-year-old is a pastor at Faithful Word Baptist Church.

Laura Boston, a Border Patrol agent from the Yuma sector, said a K-9 unit alerted officers that drugs or people could be concealed inside Anderson's car, giving the federal officers probable cause to search the vehicle. Anderson refused to move his car or roll down his windows, Boston said.

Anderson, skeptical that the dog detected anything, refused the search, setting of a 90-minute standoff that wasn't resolved until agents broke out the windows of Anderson's car and took him to the ground forcefully.

Anderson said he required 11 stitches to his face, and that he was shocked repeatedly with a Taser while he was lying prone on the ground.

Boston said Border Patrol agents called in DPS officers after Anderson was blocking a lane of traffic, and that DPS officers were carrying the Tasers.

Bart Graves, a DPS spokesman, said the department is conducting an internal investigation but that preliminary reports indicated the officers followed proper procedure.

Anderson said it was Border Patrol agents who were angry with him for refusing to consent to the search, and they used the most force after he was taken from his car.

“Why the violence? Why the excessive brutal force? I think it was just to punish me because I didn't like the things I said to them,” Anderson said. “I told them, ‘no.' I stood my ground. So they decided to punish me by brutalizing me.”

Anderson said his attorney entered a not-guilty plea at a court proceeding on Friday where he was arraigned on two misdemeanor counts of resisting a lawful order.

DPS also cited a 1976 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that upheld the constitutionality of checkpoints near border areas, and that the stop on Interstate 8 is in compliance with the law.

Anderson said the issue was now the force with which Border Patrol agents and DPS officers enforced that law.

“What I did not comply with was being interrogated or searched. Does that 1976 Supreme Court case give them the right to beat the hell out of somebody?” Anderson asked. “What they did to me was totally unnecessary. They're not even claiming I fought back.”

Anderson said he plans on meeting with attorneys Monday to explore his legal options.

In the past several months, Anderson has posted several youtube videos in which he confronts authorities.

In February, he posted a video showing an encounter he claims was at a checkpoint at the New Mexico border. He keeps his windows rolled up. He questions the agents why he's being stopped.

In March, he shot a video entitled “Another Cop Harrasses me for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON *Minnesota” (sic).

In January, he posted another video shot at Sky Harbor International Airport. He walks up to a Phoenix police officer and ask him about his machine gun. When the officer replies that it's none of my business, Anderson says, “It's none of my business? Don't you work for me since I'm a citizen of Phoenix and of the United States? … How would you feel is somebody walked up to your car with a machine gun? Huh? You don't want to answer me?”

Steeldude
06-19-2009, 05:36 PM
steelersinca, actually it's his fault. the dog was alerted to something in his trunk and he refused a search. the border patrol is not required to have a search warrant. he also refused to answer any questions. instead he decided to block traffic.

this pastor lied about being beaten. he was tased as a result of refusing to follow a lawful order to exit the vehicle and resisting arrest.

but i am sure you overlooked that.

this pastor was on multiple radio shows. whenever a person called in that exposed his lies or antagonistic behavior, he became upset. one radio host had to cut his mic and stop the discussion because of his rude behavior.


Maybe I missed the set of laws written specifically for police

oh so you are saying it's legal for civilians to carry loaded assault rifles in public? you are also saying it's legal for civilians to do pit maneuvers? you are also saying civilians can wear kevlar vests? try applying some common sense and it won't be such a mystery to you :smile:

Do you get equally upset when police ask citizens pointless questions

i don't get upset and neither was the officer. he knew what the pastor was trying to do so he ended it quickly and went about his job.

I think that is well within my right as a citizen

nobody is saying you can't ask, but it doesn't have to be answered. do you start mocking officers and stating lies about them when they don't answer your pointless question??

You did notice how I said if they aren't on a call right

and how would you know they are on call or not? sirens aren't required. so if the cop is on call going 85MPH and so are you, it means you are speeding illegally.

AR-15

what difference does it make? perhaps something was on alert at airports and they didn't feel like panicking the public with a reason why. perhaps a VIP(senator etc..) was flying in? you aren't required to know why. unless you have found a rule that says a cop must tell a citizen what kind of gun he is carrying and his responsibilities for the day

SteelersinCA
06-19-2009, 07:13 PM
steelersinca, actually it's his fault. the dog was alerted to something in his trunk and he refused a search. the border patrol is not required to have a search warrant. he also refused to answer any questions. instead he decided to block traffic.

Really it's his fault he got beat? These agents knew who he was, knew he had filmed them before and knew he never once caused them harm or even threatened harm. Why do they feel the need to tase him? Can they not pull him from the car without tasing him and beating him? So, if i refuse to get off of a bench the cops can just beat me up and tase me, huh? You don't think that's a problem? His fault, what a crock of shit.

this pastor lied about being beaten. he was tased as a result of refusing to follow a lawful order to exit the vehicle and resisting arrest.
but i am sure you overlooked that.

Then why wasn't he charged with resisting arrest, he was charged with blocking traffic, even if he is peaceably resisting arrest it doesn't give the cops the right to beat him and tase him. Could you imagine all the sit down protesters in the 60s getting tased for just sitting there? Care to rethink that?

this pastor was on multiple radio shows. whenever a person called in that exposed his lies or antagonistic behavior, he became upset. one radio host had to cut his mic and stop the discussion because of his rude behavior.

Was it people like you calling in and telling him it's his fault he got beat? I'd get upset too. What lies are there to expose. He presented no risk of harm or injury to the police and they beat him. Force is only justified if they feel their safety is in jeopardy. Care to point out how he EVER put their safety in jeopardy?

oh so you are saying it's legal for civilians to carry loaded assault rifles in public? you are also saying it's legal for civilians to do pit maneuvers? you are also saying civilians can wear kevlar vests? try applying some common sense and it won't be such a mystery to you :smile:

Have you ever read your states Penal code? There are provisions in there for law enforcement. Here's a hint, the penal Code applies to ALL citizens and ALL police officers. Here's an excerpt from the CA penal code on carrying weapons:

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:(1) The sale to, purchase by, or possession of short-barreled shotguns or short-barreled rifles by police departments, sheriffs' offices, marshals' offices, the California Highway Patrol, the Department of Justice, or the military or naval forces of this state or of the United States for use in the discharge of their official duties or the possession of short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles by peace officer members of a police department, sheriff's office, marshal's office, the California Highway Patrol, or the Department of Justice when on duty and the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties and the peace officer has completed a training course in the use of these weapons certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training.

See how that works? Still waiting on you to provide me with the law book written specifically for Police. The same laws apply to everyone.

i don't get upset and neither was the officer. he knew what the pastor was trying to do so he ended it quickly and went about his job.

He looked plenty upset to me.

nobody is saying you can't ask, but it doesn't have to be answered. do you start mocking officers and stating lies about them when they don't answer your pointless question??

Oh I get it. You mean like when they pull you over for speeding and ask you where are you coming from and where are you going? Pointless questions like that? How do you think a cop would react if Joe Citizen told them it's none of your business. It is none of their business by the way and you don;t have to answer those questions just like the cop doesn't have to answer them either.

and how would you know they are on call or not? sirens aren't required. so if the cop is on call going 85MPH and so are you, it means you are speeding illegally.

Do you also agree that a police officer speeding at 85 mph who is not on a call is breaking the law? Or do you think police are above the law at all times???? :banging:

what difference does it make? perhaps something was on alert at airports and they didn't feel like panicking the public with a reason why. perhaps a VIP(senator etc..) was flying in? you aren't required to know why. unless you have found a rule that says a cop must tell a citizen what kind of gun he is carrying and his responsibilities for the day

Nor does it matter that the citizen asks, videotapes or gets upset at the officer. What difference does that make? You get upset because someone EXERCISES their constitutional rights, I want to know if you get upset when the police violate citizens' rights? Oh wait never mind, I got my answer, he deserved it. :coffee:

Steeldude
06-20-2009, 01:49 AM
Really it's his fault he got beat?

point out when is the video he is being beaten.

These agents knew who he was, knew he had filmed them before and knew he never once caused them harm or even threatened harm

they recognize him by his face or name? since when does not harming them in the past equate to not smuggling drugs etc...?

Why do they feel the need to tase him

any number of reasons. it's obvious he isn't cooperative. hence refusing to lower his window, refusal to exit vehicle, refusal of lawful orders, resisting arrest...

Can they not pull him from the car without tasing him and beating him

again you bring up beating. when in the video is he shown being beaten? i suppose they could wrestle him out which could possibly cause more damage.

if i refuse to get off of a bench the cops can just beat me up and tase me, huh

what's the scenario? is it going to be a comparable analogy or one a liberal would you use when he desperately tries to make a point?

His fault

who refused the lawful order to exit the vehicle? who refused to be arrested? it's called force continuum. they tried verbal orders and they were ignored.

There are provisions in there for law enforcement

then there you go. you didn't answer my question. here they are again. oh so you are saying it's legal for civilians to carry loaded assault rifles in public? you are also saying it's legal for civilians to do pit maneuvers? you are also saying civilians can wear kevlar vests?

Was it people like you calling in and telling him it's his fault he got beat?

no, it was people asking why he lied about the video he said shows him being beaten. why he lied about not receiving medical attention, but yet this video shows them applying medical attention. in video he says he answered their questions, but in the video you posted he said he didn't answer there questions. the pastor can't get his lies straightened out.

He presented no risk of harm or injury to the police and they beat him

how do you know he presented no risk of harm or injury to the police? can you see the future? and again, when in the video is he shown being beaten? are you going to keep pasting that lie?

Care to point out how he EVER put their safety in jeopardy

refusing lawful orders shows the officers he is not willing to cooperate in a verbal stage. again, it's called force continuum. he was tased, big deal. would he have been tased if he cooperated with the deputy's lawful order?

ask you where are you coming from and where are you going

very relevant question. are you on your way to an emergency ie death of a family member etc...

He looked plenty upset to me

that would be your opinion. i see an officer who tells the man he does not ahve to answer his questions. are you upset that the officer exercised his rights?

How do you think a cop would react if Joe Citizen told them it's none of your business

he would write him a ticket for speeding. are you suggesting the cop would start mocking the driver and stating a lie about him like the pastor did to the officer?

Do you also agree that a police officer speeding at 85 mph who is not on a call is breaking the law

yes, it's against the law and he should be reprimanded for it.

you didn't answer my question. here it is again. do you start mocking officers and stating lies about them when they don't answer your pointless question???

just like the cop doesn't have to answer them either

exactly, so why does the pastor start mocking the officer and demanding to be given an answer? why does he lie by saying he is harassing people with a machine gun? care to answer?

videotapes or gets upset at the officer

nobody said he couldn't upset. but what is the point of harassing and lying about the officer because he didn't want to answer the man's pointless question?

I want to know if you get upset when the police violate citizens' rights

it's wrong and he should be punished for it, but i don't know if i would get upset. i rarely get upset over anything.

you don;t have to answer those questions

i have no problem answering any questions. you seem to though.

this pastor is well known for lying and exaggerating stories involving law enforcement

SteelersinCA
06-20-2009, 02:45 AM
You just don't get it do you? You can't use a taser on someone who is peaceably resisting. What part of that are you not getting?

Force continuum, huh? You mean this? Please show me where he was violent or threatening??????

http://www.policetest.info/FORCE_CONTINUUM_POLICE_USE_OF_FORCE.htm

Level Four

Pepper Spray, Baton, Taser. When the suspect is violent or threatening, more extreme, but non-deadly measures must be used to bring the suspect under control, or affect an arrest...


Looks like they missed a step, but that's OK right, I bet they were REALLY frustrated by his harassment, so they could just skip whatever step they wish.

Steeldude
06-22-2009, 12:29 PM
"Looks like they missed a step, but that's OK right"

those are also recommended/general guidelines. they apply to most, but not play to all situations. certain situations call for different tactics/measures. ever heard of the term "officer's discretion"? if the officer feels that wrestling with him to pull him out the car(small environment) would have caused more harm than good to the arrestee and harm to the arresting officers, he may choose a different tactic etc... perhaps the courts will agree with the pastor, but they may also agree with the deputies. the pastor has shown to be a liar, deliberately antagonistic and defiant in the past when dealing with law enforcement.

all could have been avoided by simply obeying a lawful order to exit the vehicle.

lol...i notice you once again refused to answer my questions. standard

SteelersinCA
06-22-2009, 07:51 PM
I got all I needed to know from you when you asked how I knew he presented no harm to the police officer and if I could see the future, according to that logic the cops can just shoot anyone because no one can see the future and see that a person who has no weapons and who has taken a defensive posture could switch to a harmful demeanor so it's ok to use force because you just never know.

Like I always say when someone tries the wah wah wah you ignored my questions tack, I'll answer any question you want as long as you promise to do the same. I love the liberal tag you place on me too, keep em coming!!

Steeldude
06-22-2009, 09:02 PM
I got all I needed to know from you when you asked how I knew he presented no harm to the police officer

and you didn't answer...lmao.

according to that logic the cops can just shoot anyone...

no, because they don't know if they have a gun. did you notice none of the BP agents/officers drew their guns or used deadly force? you are the one advocating the ability to read minds, not me. the deputy doesn't know for 100% certainty what he is capable of. the man has blocked an interstate for an extended amount of time, refused to answer questions, refused lawful orders and resists arrest by keeping himself locked in his car. i don't think the officer found him as a threat on a life and death scale, but wrestling him out of a small confined area isn't always easy to do. in the end it all comes down to what the judge thinks.

I'll answer any question you want as long as you promise to do the same

point out one i missed. then i will gladly point out the questions you purposely refused to answer...again.

I love the liberal tag you place on me

i didn't tag you as a liberal. i said "or one a liberal would you use when he desperately tries to make a point". i merely asked if you were going to use an analogy like a liberal would do.

tony hipchest
06-22-2009, 09:57 PM
very relevant question. are you on your way to an emergency ie death of a family member etc...


if it is so relevant, why did the bicycle officer with a car take 10 minutes to ask me? i mean i know filling out one of those citation certificates can be kinda challenging, but if i were responding to a family member on a life or death situation they most likely woulda been dead.

he would write him a ticket for speeding. where do i gotta go to meet these magical peace officers? they sound so nice and understanding. :hug:

i went out to the lake this weekend with extended family including 2 who are veteran officers (well, one is a detective) and they both liked my new company ride. they both said i might wanna lose the texas plates though. i laughed.

when i told them that i was just ticketed they said i shoulda given them a call. :hunch:

anyways they brought the boat and jet-ski's. yes, we had a few brews on the boat and we even fished w/o a license.

being that it was "off duty investegative work" it was all good.

plus, none of them harrassed me for public indecency me when i dropped trow, and moon bathed infront of the campfire late at night, or mooned the boat with them and the kids the next day as it cruised the shore line.

just like in real life, some cops are cool, and some will get their panties in a bunch over nothing.

SteelersinCA
06-22-2009, 10:11 PM
I purposely refuse to answer all questions that don't warrant an answer.

Let's do this though, you find all the incidents you can of citizens harassing police officers and when you are satisfied you have found all you can, I bet I'll quadruple it with police officers harassing citizens.

Remember, just because it is a relevant question in your mind doesn't make it any more their business. If you are speeding does it really matter where you are going to or from, are you now suggesting that in that magical book of laws written explicitly for police there are exceptions to the speeding laws too? You don't have to answer that, I already know the answer.

Steeldude
06-23-2009, 02:27 PM
"where do i gotta go to meet these magical peace officers?"

are you saying you have never seen an officer writing a ticket to someone caught speeding? refusing to answer where you are going or where you are coming from is not going to stop the ticket.

if it is so relevant

are you implying the question is irrelevant?

i mean i know filling out one of those citation certificates can be kinda challenging, but if i were responding to a family member on a life or death situation they most likely would a been dead

was that the reason you were speeding? also, not all officers ask those types of questions.

Steeldude
06-23-2009, 02:41 PM
I purposely refuse to answer all questions that don't warrant an answer

in other words, questions that ruin your illogical pattern of thinking. i knew you wouldn't answer them. lmao...so typical.

are you now suggesting that in that magical book of laws written explicitly for police there are exceptions to the speeding laws too

another absurd comment. an officer may let you go if you are on an emergency like a sibling being in the hospital dying etc... that doesn't mean it's a written rule to allow you to speed without the fear of penalties.

also, where do you get magical book of laws? have i stated any magical laws? no. so what are you going on about? or is that a comment to make you feel that the hole you are in isn't getting deeper?

You don't have to answer

it's been answered, as usual. unlike you, i do not fear questions. let me know when you gather the courage to answer questions. ok? :smile:

tony hipchest
06-23-2009, 02:47 PM
also, not all officers ask those types of questions.

then it must not be that relevant.

SteelersinCA
06-23-2009, 02:53 PM
then it must not be that relevant.

Now, you're being "illogical' Tony! Careful, you'll get accused of not answering questions and being in a hole next....:rolleyes:

SteelersinCA
06-23-2009, 03:00 PM
refusing to answer where you are going or where you are coming from is not going to stop the ticket.

are you implying the question is irrelevant?

You don't have to answer shit about where you were going or where you are coming from, what part of that do you not get? You make it sound like refusing to answer whatever question a cop asks you is somehow a violation of the law. Give me a break, you don't have to answer ANY QUESTIONS, EVER. Just because you'd like to know, or you think it's relevant, doesn't mean the cop has the right to know the answer. Talking to you is like talking to a wall.

How does where you are going or where you are coming from relevant to speeding? You are either speeding or you aren't. pretty simple. Just because a police officer may find your reason for speeding acceptable to "let you go" does not make the question any more relevant or give the officer any more right to know the answer.

in other words, questions that ruin your illogical pattern of thinking. i knew you wouldn't answer them. lmao...so typical.

let me know when you gather the courage to answer questions. ok? :smile:

Typical of what? Liberal that you aren't labeling me as? Just so you'll shut up about me not answering your asinine questions, make a list, I promise I'll answer them in my next post, but only on the condition you answer mine. Fair enough, ok ,go.

Steeldude
06-23-2009, 05:23 PM
then it must not be that relevant.

so if a question isn't asked that means it's not relevant? :rofl:

Steeldude
06-23-2009, 06:22 PM
You don't have to answer shit about where you were going or where you are coming from, what part of that do you not get

when did i say you did?

Give me a break, you don't have to answer ANY QUESTIONS, EVER

not true. ever heard of a terry stop?

How does where you are going or where you are coming from relevant to speeding

looks like i have to answer the same question again. if you are speeding because a loved one is dying at the hospital or wherever, then the cop might let you off because of the circumstances. your hasty/urgent concern for your loved one is relevant to your speeding.

Just because a police officer may find your reason for speeding acceptable to "let you go" does not make the question any more relevant or give the officer any more right to know the answer

i didn't say he is required to know the answer or be given that answer, but the question is relevant to the situation. by "acceptable" do you also mean applicable? it's a common question that many officers ask. just like "do you know how fast you were going". i certainly feel that question is relevant to the situation, but it doesn't mean i have to answer it or that he needs to know. relevant can be a subjective term at times. i am sure we can both nitpick a point or find a loophole to keep it going.

relevant - (adj) bearing upon or connected with the matter in hand

make a list, I promise I'll answer them in my next post

scroll back. it's not hard to do.

but only on the condition you answer mine

i always do

tony hipchest
06-23-2009, 07:28 PM
so if a question isn't asked that means it's not relevant? :rofl:only if a question that is asked, makes it relevant. :tap:

i just realized that i wasnt clear in my initial post that the dumbass didnt ask me where i was going until after he issued the citation and let me go. by that point it was totally irrelevant. if you know the cops in my town (and many, many others), had i refused to answer, rolled up the window and drove away, i woulda been pulled over again.

SteelersinCA
06-23-2009, 07:55 PM
not true. ever heard of a terry stop?


What questions do you have to answer at a terry stop? Ever heard of the 5th amendment? Last time i checked Terry didn't trump the constitution.

Steeldude
06-25-2009, 05:52 PM
What questions do you have to answer at a terry stop?

you could google it. an officer can ask you, depending on the situation, to identify yourself. if you refuse to answer you could be detained or arrested.

Ever heard of the 5th amendment?

i sure have, but don't be so quick to think that it protects you from all questions.

Last time i checked Terry didn't trump the constitution.

you wouldn't be saying that if you knew what the fifth means and how it is applied. look up HIIBEL v. SIXTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT OF NEVADA, HUMBOLDT COUNTY. that should help explain terry stops/stop-identify laws.

SteelersinCA
06-25-2009, 06:18 PM
Again, just because you can be detained or arrested does not mean you have to answer any questions. Are you beginning to see why I don't feel the need to answer your questions?

I know perfectly well what a terry stop is. If the police have reasonable suspicion to suspect crime is afoot they can stop you for a brief detention to ascertain why you are there. It is a standard lower than probable cause for arrest. However, you still do not have to answer their questions. You can stand there silently and let them search you. If they find nothing they cannot arrest you because they still do not have probable cause.

From your case: "In turn, the law requires the person detained to “identify himself”, but does not compel the person to answer any other questions put to him by the officer.'

One can identify them self by providing their ID silently. I'll repeat, you don't have to answer any questions!

Nor does it give free reign to the police to randomly stop people walking down the street and ask to identify themselves.

Steeldude
06-26-2009, 12:38 PM
just because you can be detained or arrested does not mean you have to answer any questions

ok, then just because you can be arrested for robbing a bank does not mean you cannot rob it. getting it yet? no one is saying you have to answer, but there could be penalties for refusing to answer.

One can identify them self by providing their ID silently

and that would be answering the cop's question of who you are.

Nor does it give free reign to the police to randomly stop people walking down the street and ask to identify themselves

never said it did.

If they find nothing they cannot arrest you because they still do not have probable cause

but if you refused to be searched you could be arrested.

I'll repeat, you don't have to answer any questions

a cop asks you to identify yourself in a terry stop...you either answer or you may be arrested. we all know people have the free will to do anything. you can go 150MPH in a school zone if you want; but guess who is going to jail as a result?

Are you beginning to see why I don't feel the need to answer your questions

i already know why. it's because they expose your ignorance.

SteelersinCA
06-26-2009, 02:47 PM
Since you bring up ignorance let's look at this more clearly to see who is being ignorant. I'll bold the important parts.

What makes people think you can't video a cop or have the right to ask them questions? I debate with myself regularly when I see a cop speeding if I should try to effectuate a citizens arrest on them. They have to follow the same laws we do. They do not get a special pass because they have a badge. (unless the lights are on and they are in pursuit) I love how people slow down when cops come up on them, I match speed with them, if they can do it why can't I? When he pulls me over I'll tell them I'm arresting him for speeding!!! Then when you get hauled into court you request their dispatch logs to show they weren't on a call or in pursuit and speeding just like you. It's great fun. I can't wait to try it, alas I haven't been pulled over yet. :sigh:

This was my first post you seem to have taken issue with, notice how I lay out all the issues you use to twist your "questions I don't answer" in the very beginning. Keep track.

what makes people think cops need to answer pointless questions?

lmao...who told you that?

This is your response, cops need to answer pointless questions. Who decides whether it's pointless, you? I think it to be very un-pointless (I made up a word so you can follow) if a police officer is carrying an assault weapon, I know I'm not in the minority on that.

The "lmao..who told you that" is in response to my statement that police have to follow the same laws we do.

Maybe I missed the set of laws written specifically for police? Can you send me a link? You did notice how I said if they aren't on a call right?

Do you get equally upset when police ask citizens pointless questions? If I saw a police officer walking down my street with an AR-15, I would not hesitate to ask why he was carrying it and is there something I should be aware of. I think that is well within my right as a citizen. If he doesn't want to answer, fine that's on him, but I have every right to ask. The police aren't some secret organization that doesn't have to answer to the citizens they swear to protect.

oh so you are saying it's legal for civilians to carry loaded assault rifles in public? you are also saying it's legal for civilians to do pit maneuvers? you are also saying civilians can wear kevlar vests? try applying some common sense and it won't be such a mystery to you :smile:

nobody is saying you can't ask, but it doesn't have to be answered. do you start mocking officers and stating lies about them when they don't answer your pointless question??

and how would you know they are on call or not? sirens aren't required. so if the cop is on call going 85MPH and so are you, it means you are speeding illegally.

what difference does it make? perhaps something was on alert at airports and they didn't feel like panicking the public with a reason why. perhaps a VIP(senator etc..) was flying in? you aren't required to know why. unless you have found a rule that says a cop must tell a citizen what kind of gun he is carrying and his responsibilities for the day

See what you have done? You have twisted a very simple and correct statement in a pitiful attempt to fit into your ignorance. The police do have to follow the same laws we do. There is not separate book of laws for them. For instance there is a law, let's call it Law A. It applies to ALL citizens meaning police have to follow it too.

Further I said very clearly in my first post, "if they are not on call...request dispatch logs." Yet you still want me to answer your question how do you know they aren't on call? Why do I have to answer questions I have already answered because you lack the ability to read and/or follow along with the discussion?

Have you ever read your states Penal code? There are provisions in there for law enforcement. Here's a hint, the penal Code applies to ALL citizens and ALL police officers. Here's an excerpt from the CA penal code on carrying weapons:

See how that works? Still waiting on you to provide me with the law book written specifically for Police. The same laws apply to everyone.

Oh I get it. You mean like when they pull you over for speeding and ask you where are you coming from and where are you going? Pointless questions like that? How do you think a cop would react if Joe Citizen told them it's none of your business. It is none of their business by the way and you don't have to answer those questions just like the cop doesn't have to answer them either.

I then provide you with an example of Law A and how it applies to everyone regardless of whether they carry a badge. Do you dispute that? EVERYONE HAS TO FOLLOW LAW A!!!! There are no seperate laws for police and citizens.

then there you go. you didn't answer my question. here they are again. oh so you are saying it's legal for civilians to carry loaded assault rifles in public? you are also saying it's legal for civilians to do pit maneuvers? you are also saying civilians can wear kevlar vests?

1.how do you know he presented no risk of harm or injury to the police? can you see the future? and again, when in the video is he shown being beaten? are you going to keep pasting that lie?

2.very relevant question. are you on your way to an emergency ie death of a family member etc...

3.yes, it's against the law and he should be reprimanded for it.

i have no problem answering any questions. you seem to though.


How did I not answer your question exactly? I said the police have to follow the same laws as everyone else. Is that an answer in your mind? Can you show me 1, just 1, law that does not apply equally to police and citizens? Your question was answered, you do not like the answer therefore you twist it to make it appear I have not answered your question. If Law A says you cannot carry a sawed off shotgun unless you are a police officer acting under proper police authority, that law applies equally to citizens and police. It is still Law A, there isn't a separate law for police and citizens. Understand that police don't have special laws? You see that your question was answered?

1-3 I included for fun.

Using your un-ignorant (another made up word for following purposes) logic in #1 police can just shoot whoever they are investigating because, hey they can't see the future the guy MAY pull out a weapon even though he is peacefully complying.

#2 You consider those to be relevant questions much like I consider why are you carrying an assault rifle around my neighborhood to be an equally relevant question. Still both parties are free to not answer and if it is none of my business why is it the officer's business?

#3 That was your response for if the officer was speeding, he should be reprimanded. Why isn't it he should get a speeding ticket? Can a citizen request a reprimand instead of a ticket?

ok, then just because you can be arrested for robbing a bank does not mean you cannot rob it. getting it yet? no one is saying you have to answer, but there could be penalties for refusing to answer.

i already know why. it's because they expose your ignorance.

Identifying yourself is not answering questions. How many officers do you know that are satisfied with someone producing an ID and not asking any follow up questions? Can you imagine how angry the officers would be? Terry stops apply to very limited circumstances when police have reasonable suspicion you are involved in a crime, we aren't talking about everyday things here for the normal person walking down the street.

:horror::confused: Just because you can be arrested doesn't mean you cannot do it??? Let's try it without the double negatives please! I didn't not go = I went. So you are saying; because you can be arrested you can rob a bank?? Come again?

Must be my ignorance.

SteelersinCA
06-26-2009, 05:54 PM
You can go on and on about your rights. You don't even have to pull over. Bottom line is cops are going to do what they need/want to and all you can do is piss and moan about it. Don't want them to search your car? Fine, don't let them. They will hold you until a K9 unit shows. They will walk the dog around your car, and if he so much as pisses on your tire, that means he alerted to a body or drugs in the car. Now they are going to tear your car apart. Good luck with the SteelersCA VS Law enforcement case you seem to be so anxious to jump in to. Then again, you might actually stand a chance in the blue state of CA.

I have plenty of cases daily vs law enforcement. Although I have never seen one so blatant as you describe. I am saddened that you feel the only place one can enjoy the protection of their rights is in a "blue state."

By the way, along with not taking a field sobriety test, don't blow into the machine on the side of the road. Careful on taking that advice though, you might be accused of exercising your rights.