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thumper
06-24-2009, 12:01 PM
For those who have the attitude of "But we won the Super Bowl so there are no problems or concerns" with this team, let's look at it this way.

I contend the 4th-worst yard per carry average in the league is a real sign of problems. Yes, they OVERCAME the flaws that led to their anemic rushing came, but the horrid rush is a major source for concern, especially when considering the team prioritizes the running game as they do.

So for those who contend the 4th-worst ypc is not an issue since we won the SB, let's look at it this way: If a 100 meter spinter won the world title - and did so with his one arm in a sling, beating the odds - should he work on getting that arm healed so he doesn't have to wear a sling next year, or should he not worry about it since he won the title with his arm in a sling?

Honestly, those who think the rushing game is not a something that needs fixed are people who would say that the sprinter with his arm in a sling doesn't have to heal his arm and can run with his arm in a sling the next year too.

That is how silly that thinking is.

Pgh's rush was pathetic. And the cause was a weak line and poor play calling (running the single back sets sending Willie up the middle with no blocking is NOT what I'd call quality play calling, especially when the opponent knows what is coming,)

Here's hoping the staff doesn't think that heading into this season, they can do so with the team's arm "still in a sling" and think they team can overcome such a disadvantage. I believe Pgh's ypc #s were the lowest of any Super Bowl winner in the modern era.

Rushing out of the single back, two TE set simply sucks. The #s clearly illustrate this in an overwhelming fashion.

FIX the obvious weakness. Do not just sit on your hands when there is such a glaring problem. Our D and Big Ben can't save our asses to the degree they did last year. Don't enter 2009 with an arm in a sling. They will NOT win another ring with the 4th-worst ypc in the league ever again.

tony hipchest
06-24-2009, 12:04 PM
already posted:

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=36386

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-24-2009, 12:05 PM
Mods...

Can we please move this "new" thread into the other threads with the same topic.

Thank you.

revefsreleets
06-24-2009, 12:23 PM
Ridiculous. It just NEVER ends...every year, the same silly stuff, over and over and over and over...

Indo
06-24-2009, 12:31 PM
:jerkit:

thumper
06-24-2009, 12:49 PM
Ridiculous. It just NEVER ends...every year, the same silly stuff, over and over and over and over...

You mean we win a Super Bowl every year while putting up such a weak rushing attack such as 4th-worst in the league? I don't recall that EVER happening before.

Psyychoward86
06-24-2009, 12:54 PM
:yawn:. Funny thing, it keeps getting harder and harder to contain these "Arians sucks" threads.

mulldog24
06-24-2009, 01:06 PM
I agree it is an issue but one that we did address with the signing of starks,Kemoeatu,drafting Urbik,and tendering Colon. These are all maulers and should be able to jell during OTA's and camp plus drafting Summers and Mendy being healthy again will also help. Remember, Parker got 1200+ yds in 2007 with Arian's system so I think we will be a better offense this year. If we are able to keep the same O-line all season without injuries Ben could also put up 32 td's like he did in 2007.

steel9guy
06-24-2009, 01:09 PM
Use a fullback again that would help.

tony hipchest
06-24-2009, 01:10 PM
You mean we win a Super Bowl every year while putting up such a weak rushing attack such as 4th-worst in the league? I don't recall that EVER happening before.do you remember having the #1 rushing attack in the league and not even reaching the superbowl?

:jerkit:

thumper
06-24-2009, 01:25 PM
:yawn:. Funny thing, it keeps getting harder and harder to contain these "Arians sucks" threads.

"Calling Mr. Straw man. Mr. Straw man argument please come to the front desk."

Show me where I asserted that Arians "sucks."

Do I think running Parker up the middle in a single back set for so many early downs is wise? No. Did I say "he sucks?" No. Stop the sophomoric, shallow perceptions and interpretations.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-24-2009, 01:33 PM
"Calling Mr. Straw man. Mr. Straw man argument please come to the front desk."

Show me where I asserted that Arians "sucks."

Do I think running Parker up the middle in a single back set for so many early downs is wise? No. Did I say "he sucks?" No. Stop the sophomoric, shallow perceptions and interpretations.

Can you please tell me why you felt the need to make ANOTHER thread with the same arguement as the previous thread?

Dino 6 Rings
06-24-2009, 01:35 PM
Thumper come on.

We all pretty much agree, our running game, as an entire part of our offense wasn't up to snuff and where we would like it to be. We pretty much all agree having Mendy, Willie and Moore plus Hank in the backfield can only help our chances of having a better more productive running game to go with our passing attack.

We pretty much all agree that the defense should be just as good as last year, although we pretty much are all waiting to see how Gay does replacing McFadden.

We pretty much all agree, that Arians drove a lot of us crazy last year, but play by play, game by game, not too many of us can point to specific situations and call out "this was a mistake". Except that 3rd down pass with under 2 mins to play in the Colts game. And the entire Philly game. Otherwise, we had a Very Balanced attack.

The running game must improve, we know that, it would be great if we got over 150 on the ground every game with 250+ in the air every game. That would be fantastic. I don't think anyone here would actually be against that type of production.

The Return Game MUST improve.

The Coverage Game must stay as good or Improve even more.

Kicker is a Lock
Punting must Get Better
QB is a Lock
OL is what it is and we get what we paid for.
DL is the same with some hard core youth now.
LBs. Same minus Foote plus Timmons
Secondary, two great safeties, one awesome (butter fingers) corner, One to prove his worth.
RBs, we've got 5 on the roster now, or is it 6? Anyway, as a Unit, they must and with Tomlin as the Coach I believe Will improve.
WRs, our biggest concern is the #3 guy. Really. Much better than having to replace Plax when he left.
Long Snapper, Remember that needs taken care of.
TE, Pretty Freaking Solid.
Dude 3 spots in from the Kickers Left on the Opening Kick off, Locked IN!

Did I miss anything?

tony hipchest
06-24-2009, 01:38 PM
Did I miss anything?

cheerleaders?

thumper
06-24-2009, 01:54 PM
I agree it is an issue but one that we did address with the signing of starks,Kemoeatu,drafting Urbik,and tendering Colon. These are all maulers and should be able to jell during OTA's and camp plus drafting Summers and Mendy being healthy again will also help. Remember, Parker got 1200+ yds in 2007 with Arian's system so I think we will be a better offense this year. If we are able to keep the same O-line all season without injuries Ben could also put up 32 td's like he did in 2007.

Oh goodie. Someone who actually wants to DISCUSS the ISSUE (instead of ad hominem and straw man content. Thank you for reacting to what I asserted instead of twisting it into someone I did not. A sincere thank you.

Now, to the issue at hand. You feel that by re-signing the same guy back it will go towards making them a better unit. (And drafting Urbik.) I understand, and partially agree with, your point. I was glad they signed most of the guys back. But I believe there is a lack of talent on this OL. Think of what was lost compared to what has replaced it. Please understand I realize we had to lose what we did, and I was against signing Faneca back with top $, so I'm not complaining on what we lost, just that I am not confident that the bodies who replaced what we lost are any where near the talent, hence play did and will suffer. And I am not one of these "power running game or bust" guys; QBs win rings. But at the same time, a total lack of a rushing game is too much to overcome. Anyone remember what it took for John Elway - arguably the best QB of all time - to finally get over and win rings? A productive running game. Yes, Ben proved last season that he could win a ring in spite of a crap rushing game, but odds are not in his favor that he can do it again.

So, what did we lose vs. what we replaced? We all know we had a decent rushing game up until last season, but the slow erosion of talent would be a major reason for the trend.

From left to right:

Lost: Marvel Smith. Replaced: Starks. I'm not down on Starks. I'm glad they resigned him to a long term deal. But no one is going to assert he can match the play of Smith. (A healthy Smith, that is). I'd say Smith was a 9 and Starks is a 6.

Lost: Faneca. Replaced: Kemo. I'm a Kemo fan. He is the only guy on the OL that adds a nasty tude, and that is needed on a OL. If everyone is mellow like Starks, it just doesn't do the trick. That being said, no one will contend that Kemo is as good as Faneca. I rate AF a 9. Kemo a 7.

Lost: Hartings. Replaced: Hartwig. A 10 replaced by a 5. Not good.

Lost Simmons. Replaced: Stapleton. A 5 replaced with a 6. Hope rookie can be an upgrade. Hope he wins starting job.

Lost Starks (benched). Replaced: Colon. I don't know. I guess they like Colon's scrappy tude. But he's no tackle. To stumpy and short. I don't see why they don't feel they need to upgrade here.

I hope more time together gets these guys to block better. But when I watch a team that can run the ball like the Giants, Panthers, etc. it looks nothing like our team. Nothing. Our backs get the ball, have guys waiting for them before they even get to the line of scrimmage.

Of course, some of it is the play calling as well. And, can someone tell me why they barely ever use screen plays, etc.? Well, maybe because they stink at them. But why do they stink at screen plays? It would do so much to help slow down the pass rush if they ran plays that hurt teams when they blitzed etc. But they don't do it. Why?

DISCLAIMER: Making valid points does not automatically make me a Arians' hater!

(I shouldn't need to say that but some how, I do)

mmalone
06-24-2009, 01:59 PM
DISCLAIMER: Making valid points does not automatically make me a Arians' hater!

(I shouldn't need to say that but some how, I do)

It is a rough board here when you try to talk about plays and strategy.....

or which player plays better in certain play calls.

it is like a hate crime...

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-24-2009, 02:08 PM
Oh goodie. Someone who actually wants to DISCUSS the ISSUE (instead of ad hominem and straw man content. Thank you for reacting to what I asserted instead of twisting it into someone I did not. A sincere thank you.

Now, to the issue at hand. You feel that by re-signing the same guy back it will go towards making them a better unit. (And drafting Urbik.) I understand, and partially agree with, your point. I was glad they signed most of the guys back. But I believe there is a lack of talent on this OL. Think of what was lost compared to what has replaced it. Please understand I realize we had to lose what we did, and I was against signing Faneca back with top $, so I'm not complaining on what we lost, just that I am not confident that the bodies who replaced what we lost are any where near the talent, hence play did and will suffer. And I am not one of these "power running game or bust" guys; QBs win rings. But at the same time, a total lack of a rushing game is too much to overcome. Anyone remember what it took for John Elway - arguably the best QB of all time - to finally get over and win rings? A productive running game. Yes, Ben proved last season that he could win a ring in spite of a crap rushing game, but odds are not in his favor that he can do it again.

So, what did we lose vs. what we replaced? We all know we had a decent rushing game up until last season, but the slow erosion of talent would be a major reason for the trend.

From left to right:

Lost: Marvel Smith. Replaced: Starks. I'm not down on Starks. I'm glad they resigned him to a long term deal. But no one is going to assert he can match the play of Smith. (A healthy Smith, that is). I'd say Smith was a 9 and Starks is a 6.

Lost: Faneca. Replaced: Kemo. I'm a Kemo fan. He is the only guy on the OL that adds a nasty tude, and that is needed on a OL. If everyone is mellow like Starks, it just doesn't do the trick. That being said, no one will contend that Kemo is as good as Faneca. I rate AF a 9. Kemo a 7.

Lost: Hartings. Replaced: Hartwig. A 10 replaced by a 5. Not good.

Lost Simmons. Replaced: Stapleton. A 5 replaced with a 6. Hope rookie can be an upgrade. Hope he wins starting job.

Lost Starks (benched). Replaced: Colon. I don't know. I guess they like Colon's scrappy tude. But he's no tackle. To stumpy and short. I don't see why they don't feel they need to upgrade here.

I hope more time together gets these guys to block better. But when I watch a team that can run the ball like the Giants, Panthers, etc. it looks nothing like our team. Nothing. Our backs get the ball, have guys waiting for them before they even get to the line of scrimmage.

Of course, some of it is the play calling as well. And, can someone tell me why they barely ever use screen plays, etc.? Well, maybe because they stink at them. But why do they stink at screen plays? It would do so much to help slow down the pass rush if they ran plays that hurt teams when they blitzed etc. But they don't do it. Why?

DISCLAIMER: Making valid points does not automatically make me a Arians' hater!

(I shouldn't need to say that but some how, I do)

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thumper
06-24-2009, 02:17 PM
We all pretty much agree, our running game, as an entire part of our offense wasn't up to snuff and where we would like it to be.


Do we? I read posts where ppl were making claims that our rushing game was fine, and the # were bad purely from playing good teams, etc. And that our D and Ben equates to us not needing a rushing game, etc. That's what I read.


We pretty much all agree having Mendy, Willie and Moore plus Hank in the backfield can only help our chances of having a better more productive running game to go with our passing attack.

I'm not all that confident that the above alone will do it. What I saw last season were backs getting hit before the got to the LOS. It doesn't matter what back you send in there; if they are getting mobbed at the LOS no back short of Barry Sanders - maybe - can make that work.

We pretty much all agree that the defense should be just as good as last year, although we pretty much are all waiting to see how Gay does replacing McFadden.

We were very fortunate - and good - last year on D. It is rare for a D to put a season together as quality as the last one if you put up such a dominant performance. Remember the '85 Bears? Was the '86 Bears D as good? Remember the 2000 Ravens? Was the 2001 Raven's D as good? A couple of key injuries and all of a sudden the D won't be as good. I do feel that Timmons on the field makes us even better and am excited to see how that plays out. No matter what, the D should be very good., even if not as "record setting" as last year.

We pretty much all agree, that Arians drove a lot of us crazy last year, but play by play, game by game, not too many of us can point to specific situations and call out "this was a mistake". Except that 3rd down pass with under 2 mins to play in the Colts game. And the entire Philly game. Otherwise, we had a Very Balanced attack.

Hmmm. I don't know. Too many wasted downs with runs up the middle when it seemed every knew would not work. Especially in certain game. Yes, we won all Ravens games, but in the first half of those games, was it really wise to rush right up the middle so many downs? The first game in Pgh, in the 1st half was especially painful. That's the one where Ben said, "I am sick of being booed" because they were so anemic on offense.

The running game must improve, we know that, it would be great if we got over 150 on the ground every game with 250+ in the air every game. That would be fantastic. I don't think anyone here would actually be against that type of production.

Thing is, I am not asking for 150 yards per game; I would settle for plays where defenders weren't on our back before they got to the LOS. However they have to change that, it must happen. Go back and watch teams that have a good OL and/or play calling run the ball. Then watch our games. There is a huge difference. Their backs get to run in holes...holes! When do you see holes in our rushing game?


The Return Game MUST improve.

A given. And using a player other than a stumpy running back will ensure it.

The Coverage Game must stay as good or Improve even more.

Kicker is a Lock
Punting must Get Better

Better punting is a lock, without question.

QB is a Lock
OL is what it is and we get what we paid for.

Well, yes and no. NYG never had to pour $ into their OL; they just paid attention to the unit when they drafted. A huge part of our problem is the fact they simply ignored the position for year after year when drafting. Of the quality players that we lost, where did they get drafted? Marvel, a high 2nd pick. Faneca a first rounder. Hartings was a first rounder. And when we had those guys our rushing game was great. Now we have all ham and eggers and we got the 4th-worst ypc average in the entire NFL on a team that has always put an emphasis on rushing the football. And our solution? Virtually ignore the OL for 5 years.


DL is the same with some hard core youth now.
LBs. Same minus Foote plus Timmons
Secondary, two great safeties, one awesome (butter fingers) corner, One to prove his worth.
RBs, we've got 5 on the roster now, or is it 6? Anyway, as a Unit, they must and with Tomlin as the Coach I believe Will improve.
WRs, our biggest concern is the #3 guy. Really. Much better than having to replace Plax when he left.

If Sweed won't do the job, McDonald will. I have no worries about the WRs.

Long Snapper, Remember that needs taken care of.
TE, Pretty Freaking Solid.
Dude 3 spots in from the Kickers Left on the Opening Kick off, Locked IN!

Did I miss anything?

Nope. I just hope they can bring the rushing average per carry to middle of the pack. Not 4th-worst.

The_WARDen
06-24-2009, 02:36 PM
Wahoo...post #542 about this garbage.

The Steelers are NOT a running team any longer...come to accept that and you're life will be so much easier.

The offense is focused around Ben more now as well it should be when you have a franchise QB.

:popcorn:

stiller39
06-24-2009, 02:38 PM
Good pt. ironman! Teams game plan to stop our run game. Because they do, other plays work well. Some of our run game problems can be attributed to our line and blocking and poor play calls but teams are ready to stop the run game. If we can still run when they do that here comes #7!!

ARKIESTEEL
06-24-2009, 03:26 PM
#1 rushing offense + #1 defense = 0 super bowl wins

I seem to recall all of the 90's very well. We might not have always been #1 in both of them but we was always right up near the top and would have like the 25th or worse pass offense which lead to deep in the play offs and no rings.

revefsreleets
06-24-2009, 03:41 PM
"This board has a fever, and the only prescription is......MORE duplicate threads about the same thing!"

http://www.daveheinzel.com/blog/cowbell.jpg

Psyychoward86
06-24-2009, 03:46 PM
Can you please tell me why you felt the need to make ANOTHER thread with the same arguement as the previous thread?

We're all thinking the same thing. Nobody needs to say it: Thumper does not like Arians. Keep it in the other thread. This topic is like spam in your email.

thumper
06-24-2009, 04:13 PM
We're all thinking the same thing. Nobody needs to say it: Thumper does not like Arians. Keep it in the other thread. This topic is like spam in your email.

Sophomoric and superficial deductions where no proof statements reside. Straw man arguments are so middle school.

thumper
06-24-2009, 04:14 PM
"This board has a fever, and the only prescription is......MORE duplicate threads about the same thing!"

http://www.daveheinzel.com/blog/cowbell.jpg

Why are you allowed to have a political tag line where political comments are not allowed to reside?

thumper
06-24-2009, 04:16 PM
Wahoo...post #542 about this garbage.

The Steelers are NOT a running team any longer...come to accept that and you're life will be so much easier.

The offense is focused around Ben more now as well it should be when you have a franchise QB.

:popcorn:

If the Steelers are no longer a rushing team, why is it they still rush the ball more than most teams, in terms of # of attempts? How strange.

revefsreleets
06-24-2009, 04:20 PM
Sophomoric and superficial deductions where no proof statements reside. Straw man arguments are so middle school.

How about redundancy? What are your feelings on repetitive superfluous, pleonastic and supernumerary arguments?

Dino 6 Rings
06-24-2009, 04:22 PM
You posted it Twice Rev, now That's FUNNY!

revefsreleets
06-24-2009, 04:23 PM
I could go on and post the same message a few more times if you'd like....after all, what's good for the goose...

Dino 6 Rings
06-24-2009, 04:26 PM
Knock Knock

Who's there

Knock Knock

Who's there

Knock Knock

Who's there

Knock Knock

Who's there

Knock Knock

Who's there

HometownGal
06-24-2009, 04:28 PM
C'mon thumper - hasn't this subject already been beaten into the ground??? :banging: :rolleyes:

Enough is enough already.

Thread closed.

:yawn:. Funny thing, it keeps getting harder and harder to contain these "Arians sucks" threads.

Not to fret - any new threads on the same redundant subject(s) will be given the lethal injection.