PDA

View Full Version : Baltimore ranked 7th among greatest of all time


mesaSteeler
06-27-2009, 02:16 PM
(Poor little rat bird has his panties all in wad. Makes my day it does to listen to a rat bird whine. Now some of you newbies who never saw the 1976 defense may favor the 2008 Steelers defense over the 1976 defense but as someone who saw both I still favor the 1976 defense.

"In the 1976 season alone, the Steelers' defense was dominant, perhaps the best defense of all time. After the Steelers started 1-4 and lost their quarterback, Terry Bradshaw, the Steelers defense took over. In eight of the next nine games, the defense didn't allow a single touchdown, shutting out opponents five times including three consecutive. During this nine game stretch the Steelers allowed a total of two touchdowns and five field goals. The defense also allowed an average 3.1 points per game and the team had an average margin of victory of 22 points. Eight of the Steelers starting eleven defensive players were selected for the Pro Bowl, and four were eventually selected to the Hall of Fame. In 2008, the NFL Network named "The Steel Curtain" the second best nickname in NFL history."

Now I would choose the 2008 Steelers defense as the second best defense of all time. Or if you prefer 1976 as 1 and 2008 as 1A.

However if you want to brighten your day by reading the pathetic whine of a rat bird then read on. It gives me such a delicious feeling of schadenfreude to know we are so deep into their heads.

PS. By the way I posted a link to an NFL network interview with Mike Tomlin over in the media section that I'm sure yunis will enjoy. - mesa)

NOBODY ASKED ME BUT...
Back to current article
http://www.ravens24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=56&id=3535&view=archive
NFL Network disses Ravens' 2000 Defense ~ June 24, 2009
Baltimore ranked 7th among greatest of all time
By Mark Considine
( mconsidine_99@yahoo.com )

I waited with baited breath for the NFL Network’s presentation of the Top Ten Best Defenses of All-Time, totally expecting to see the Ravens in the top 3.

Well to my surprise and disgust, they had the 2000 Ravens defense, the team that holds the record for the least amount of points given up over a 16 game season, won a Super Bowl, had one Hall of Famer (“HOF’er”) and another lock on the way, ranked SEVENTH all time!!!!!!

They had teams like the Gritts Blitz ranked above the Ravens, the New York Giants of the 50’s, the Kansas City Chiefs of the late 60’s, and of course to piss me off completely they had the Steelers of the 70’s ranked number one.

I have never liked “all-time” rankings. It seems logic is almost always left out. For example, the knock on the Ravens is that the quarterbacks they faced were not as good as the quarterbacks the other teams faced.

Upon hearing that I felt somewhat compelled to go back and look at the teams the NFL Network ranked in their top 6 defenses and determine which HOF QB’s they played – but why bother?

The most glaring omission here is that every defense that played in the 70’s and before were allowed to mug the receiver all the way down the field, and in the 50’s and 60’s, offensive linemen couldn’t use their hands to block. We always hear what a beast Deacon Jones was yet while offensive linemen were striking the elbows pointed out pose, Jones could get away with head slapping them, temporarily disorienting them before running towards the quarterback seemingly unabated.

But that makes too much sense I guess for the lazy network.

And let’s not forget that these are the same people who voted the 2000 Ravens linebacker corps as the 10th all time, behind some shocking choices, citing the “beef” in front of them as the reason for their success. So wouldn’t that logic also fall on the Steelers’ linebackers who were voted top 3?

Well just for fun let’s compare some of the individual stats of the 2000 Ravens and the Steelers of the 70’s beginning with Ray Lewis’ career stats versus Jack Lambert’s career stats.

Lewis has been selected to ten Pro Bowls and been named an Associated Press All-Pro eight times. He won the NFL Defensive Player of the Year in 2000 and 2003 – the sixth player to win the award multiple times. Lewis was also the second linebacker to win the Super Bowl MVP (Chuck Howley won in SB V) and the first linebacker to win the award on the winning Super Bowl team.

Lambert was elected to 9 Pro Bowls, won the Defensive Player of the year once, had 23.5 sacks to Ray’s 33.5, 1479 tackles versus Ray’s 1636, and the same number of interceptions that Ray has at 28.

Ray Lewis is still playing and will improve upon what is obviously a better career, unless you are a towel waving moron who wants to compare Super Bowl wins, thus completely suggesting the game is a one man sport and not that of a 53 player team.

Just go back and stand under the power lines!

Then you could look at Peter Boulware and compare his stats to Jack Ham, who one pundit called the best outside linebacker of all-time and obviously never heard of Lawrence Taylor.

Peter Boulware had 70 career sacks in 8 seasons, 4 Pro Bowls, and won Defensive rookie of the year. Where Jack Ham had 25 sacks in his 11 seasons, 8 Pro Bowls, and 21 fumble recoveries to Boulware’s 5. Basically, two totally different players excelling in different phases of the game, but to say one was marginally better than the other would be tough to argue.

Now I could compare Jamie Sharper to Dirt Winston, but you’d just change the channel (as perhaps I should have while watching this program).

One interesting thing I did find out while looking into the stats of each player, is that if you added up all of the career sacks of each player from each team, you would find that the Steel Curtain front 7 players had total of 295.5 sacks throughout their careers and the Ravens had 294.5 sacks collectively among each player throughout their careers. These of course are just the stats for the starting front seven.

Moving to the secondary and excluding comparisons to marginal players, you could move onto star cornerbacks. I would lose a lot of respect if I tried to compare Chris McAlister to Mel Blount as Blount dominated throughout his career. CMac is a Pro Bowler but it ends there. However, as I stated earlier, Blount was allowed to make contact all the way down the field which does make covering a lot easier.

As far as the safeties go, I would take Rod Woodson as my safety over anyone the Steelers had.

So all in all upon dissecting the teams through statistical analysis, it is hard to conclude that one defense is better than the other. I suppose you could use things like the number of championships and longevity as part of your argument. That said an intelligent NFL fan would be mindful that free agency and the salary cap didn’t exist in the late seventies making the argument for the Steelers even less relevant.

But can we really assume such intelligence from a Pennsylvania mining town education?

On whole, the NFL Network presentation left a ton to be desired, even dismissing things like number of defensive snaps per game. I feel pretty confident saying that the Ravens defense spent more time on the field because that 2000 Trent Dilfer led offense is nowhere near the Steelers offense of the late 70’s.

But hey, that’s just me.

And as I say, “nobody asked me” anyway.

LVSteelersfan
06-27-2009, 02:46 PM
Sour grapes is cool. Ray Lewis is the most overrated linebacker in the league. Without that beef up front he would have still been good, but he certainly isn't in the top 10 of all time without it. Mr. pileon top after the front 4 take care of business. They are going to do the top 10 linebackers of all time this week with Woodson doing the analysis. I bet he puts Ray Ray number one. That will make me ill.

devilsdancefloor
06-27-2009, 03:03 PM
Wow! does that guy need a tissue? he cant think of anything so makes fun of pittsburgh education system. Andy Russell was a better LB then either ratbird LBer's! Id take mike wagner over woodson at safety as well. :noidea: sounds like sour grapes to me over something that doesnt matter.

rick723
06-27-2009, 03:27 PM
KMA Blogger, Murdering Ray the Knife is only half as good as they say anyhoo. I remember Krider blowing his dumb azz up at least two times a game. The play is over and knifeman falls on the pile they credit him a tackle. He smokes the pole

RoethlisBURGHer
06-27-2009, 03:29 PM
Sour grapes. What else would you expect from a fan of a team who's main color is purple?

fansince'76
06-27-2009, 03:47 PM
I waited with baited breath for the NFL Network’s presentation of the Top Ten Best Defenses of All-Time, totally expecting to see the Ravens in the top 3....

....I have never liked “all-time” rankings.

Then why the hell did you bother to watch it, numbnuts? :rolleyes:

And anyone who thinks Boulware was anywhere even in the same universe as far as being a comparable LB to Ham is concerned is someone who never actually saw Ham play. I'd be willing to bet this is another punk 19-20-year-old kid and Ham was already retired for the better part of a decade before the best part of him ran down his mother's leg.

For example, the knock on the Ravens is that the quarterbacks they faced were not as good as the quarterbacks the other teams faced. Upon hearing that I felt somewhat compelled to go back and look at the teams the NFL Network ranked in their top 6 defenses and determine which HOF QB’s they played – but why bother?

You wouldn't bother, because the results of such research wouldn't support your argument, dumbass. For example, the '70s Steelers faced the likes of Roger Staubach (twice) and Fran Tarkenton in the SB, while the 2000 Ravens faced Kerry "Sooperboozer" Collins. There really is no argument to be made there.

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-27-2009, 04:04 PM
I waited with baited breath for the NFL Network’s presentation of the Top Ten Best Defenses of All-Time...

I have never liked “all-time” rankings

:rofl:

Uh...yea...
Your'e an idiot. Thanks for proving to us that Tim Lumber isn't the exception to the rule.:thumbsup:

Dino 6 Rings
06-27-2009, 05:56 PM
Also this moron doesn't point out that the rankings were based on more than just a Single Season of greatness, hence the reason the 85 Bears weren't he top team. One "very good" Season does not a DOMINANT Defense make. Hence, the 70s Steelers are the Best Defense Ever.

CantStop85
06-27-2009, 07:36 PM
I don't think the Ravens 2000 defense should be rated above the Steelers 1976 defense, but I do think it should be top 3...top 5 at the least. That defense was pretty sick.

wadester47
06-27-2009, 08:02 PM
sorry , just threw up a little

SteelCityKing
06-27-2009, 08:07 PM
boo hoo! why don't you go and make your own "all-time" list dude? let's see what other people have to say about it. i'm sure it'll be written on purple paper with black marker and a letter head of a raven. grow up punk and quit crying over spilt milk.

SteelCityKing
06-27-2009, 08:08 PM
Also this moron doesn't point out that the rankings were based on more than just a Single Season of greatness, hence the reason the 85 Bears weren't he top team. One "very good" Season does not a DOMINANT Defense make. Hence, the 70s Steelers are the Best Defense Ever.

amen brother. =)

wootawnee
06-27-2009, 08:40 PM
Ray Lewis cannot come close to the way Lambert could get to the sidelines..........Running backs did not have a chance agoinst Jack to the sidelines......He owned them........He was a fast shuffler......Ray can't cover the pass near the way Lambert did........This guy is a big Homer like most of us are........

JHSilverback
06-27-2009, 08:49 PM
Hell the only reason why the stats are so high for the ravens defense is due to the fact that their offense can barely stay on the field...I would love the stat showing how long the offense stayed on the field compared to how long their defense had to stay on the field

CantStop85
06-27-2009, 08:53 PM
Hell the only reason why the stats are so high for the ravens defense is due to the fact that their offense can barely stay on the field...I would love the stat showing how long the offense stayed on the field compared to how long their defense had to stay on the field

lol wut?

If anything you're making an argument FOR the Ravens. The less time the offense is on the field = the more time the defense is on the field = greater fatigue for the defense + greater opportunity of giving up yardage or big plays.

:doh:

JHSilverback
06-28-2009, 12:43 AM
lol wut?

If anything you're making an argument FOR the Ravens. The less time the offense is on the field = the more time the defense is on the field = greater fatigue for the defense + greater opportunity of giving up yardage or big plays.

:doh:

actually nah I'm just stating in the article he compares the stats of Lambert and Ray...hence rays stats will be blown up due to the fact he was on the field more allowing him to make more tackles and everything else

have u seen the ravens d they give up huge plays all the time with all that jail house blitzing and the weak secondary they have(excluding ed reed)

so in no way am I making an argument FOR the Ravens...:doh:

Galax Steeler
06-28-2009, 07:30 AM
Blaaa Blaaa Blaaa next!!!!!!!!!:coffee:

AllD
06-28-2009, 09:29 AM
4 Super Bowl rings, enough said.

HometownGal
06-28-2009, 10:15 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rzJHDdHabLw/SZ1jvzCXJkI/AAAAAAAABus/Z832YgxnFXw/s400/crying+baby.jpg

That is all. :rolleyes:

Preacher
06-28-2009, 11:43 AM
Don't you all just love how we seem to be completely in the head of every other AFCN team? None of them will admit it, but they all compare themselves to . . . US.

Texasteel
06-28-2009, 11:53 AM
Wow! does that guy need a tissue? he cant think of anything so makes fun of pittsburgh education system. Andy Russell was a better LB then either ratbird LBer's! Id take mike wagner over woodson at safety as well. :noidea: sounds like sour grapes to me over something that doesnt matter.

Russell was and is completely underrated because of who he played with. Wagner is one of my favorite Steelers.

T.Richardson
06-28-2009, 11:53 AM
hmmm the dude fails to mention. Rod Woodson was a Steeler before he was a Raven, so why would he mention he would take Rod Woodson over any Steelers safety??

Also, he doesnt realize that the reaons why Ray's stats are skewed to his side is because Lambert played in less games, and play in 14 game seasons, while Ray played in 16 game seasons. Lambert played for 11 years, Ray played 13 years. The stats are skewed Rays side due to the fact that Lambert has played less games.

KingofSparta
06-28-2009, 02:09 PM
Want some french cries with your Waaa burger?

I've been the skull crusher in this debate on other forums where ignorant Ravens fans make ignorant comments about how they feel their defense should be ranked. To be honest, the 2008 Steelers and their record tying 14 games surrendering less than 300 yards are superior to the 2000 Ratbirds. I won't delve into the argument now, but the 2008 Steelers were statistically superior in nearly every meaningful category.

Yet they attempt to insult our intelligence? Yeah right: come get smacked in the face with a tank turret for your induction into reality. Your team was good, but they fall short of the 70's Steelers in every conceivable way.

ricksteelers55
06-28-2009, 07:55 PM
Ray Lewis cannot come close to the way Lambert could get to the sidelines..........Running backs did not have a chance agoinst Jack to the sidelines......He owned them........He was a fast shuffler......Ray can't cover the pass near the way Lambert did........This guy is a big Homer like most of us are........

Plus Jack never killed anyone

KingofSparta
06-28-2009, 09:05 PM
Plus Jack never killed anyone

Don't tell that to Jack though.

revefsreleets
06-29-2009, 09:44 AM
Why all the fuss? Seven sounds just about right...

Indo
06-29-2009, 11:57 AM
Plus Jack never killed anyone

You mean "...Off the Field". Right?

rich4eagle
06-29-2009, 08:21 PM
(Poor little rat bird has his panties all in wad. Makes my day it does to listen to a rat bird whine. Now some of you newbies who never saw the 1976 defense may favor the 2008 Steelers defense over the 1976 defense but as someone who saw both I still favor the 1976 defense.

"In the 1976 season alone, the Steelers' defense was dominant, perhaps the best defense of all time. After the Steelers started 1-4 and lost their quarterback, Terry Bradshaw, the Steelers defense took over. In eight of the next nine games, the defense didn't allow a single touchdown, shutting out opponents five times including three consecutive. During this nine game stretch the Steelers allowed a total of two touchdowns and five field goals. The defense also allowed an average 3.1 points per game and the team had an average margin of victory of 22 points. Eight of the Steelers starting eleven defensive players were selected for the Pro Bowl, and four were eventually selected to the Hall of Fame. In 2008, the NFL Network named "The Steel Curtain" the second best nickname in NFL history."

Now I would choose the 2008 Steelers defense as the second best defense of all time. Or if you prefer 1976 as 1 and 2008 as 1A.

However if you want to brighten your day by reading the pathetic whine of a rat bird then read on. It gives me such a delicious feeling of schadenfreude to know we are so deep into their heads.

PS. By the way I posted a link to an NFL network interview with Mike Tomlin over in the media section that I'm sure yunis will enjoy. - mesa)

NOBODY ASKED ME BUT...
Back to current article
http://www.ravens24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=56&id=3535&view=archive
NFL Network disses Ravens' 2000 Defense ~ June 24, 2009
Baltimore ranked 7th among greatest of all time
By Mark Considine
( mconsidine_99@yahoo.com )

I waited with baited breath for the NFL Network’s presentation of the Top Ten Best Defenses of All-Time, totally expecting to see the Ravens in the top 3.

Well to my surprise and disgust, they had the 2000 Ravens defense, the team that holds the record for the least amount of points given up over a 16 game season, won a Super Bowl, had one Hall of Famer (“HOF’er”) and another lock on the way, ranked SEVENTH all time!!!!!!

They had teams like the Gritts Blitz ranked above the Ravens, the New York Giants of the 50’s, the Kansas City Chiefs of the late 60’s, and of course to piss me off completely they had the Steelers of the 70’s ranked number one.

I have never liked “all-time” rankings. It seems logic is almost always left out. For example, the knock on the Ravens is that the quarterbacks they faced were not as good as the quarterbacks the other teams faced.

Upon hearing that I felt somewhat compelled to go back and look at the teams the NFL Network ranked in their top 6 defenses and determine which HOF QB’s they played – but why bother?

The most glaring omission here is that every defense that played in the 70’s and before were allowed to mug the receiver all the way down the field, and in the 50’s and 60’s, offensive linemen couldn’t use their hands to block. We always hear what a beast Deacon Jones was yet while offensive linemen were striking the elbows pointed out pose, Jones could get away with head slapping them, temporarily disorienting them before running towards the quarterback seemingly unabated.

But that makes too much sense I guess for the lazy network.

And let’s not forget that these are the same people who voted the 2000 Ravens linebacker corps as the 10th all time, behind some shocking choices, citing the “beef” in front of them as the reason for their success. So wouldn’t that logic also fall on the Steelers’ linebackers who were voted top 3?

Well just for fun let’s compare some of the individual stats of the 2000 Ravens and the Steelers of the 70’s beginning with Ray Lewis’ career stats versus Jack Lambert’s career stats.

Lewis has been selected to ten Pro Bowls and been named an Associated Press All-Pro eight times. He won the NFL Defensive Player of the Year in 2000 and 2003 – the sixth player to win the award multiple times. Lewis was also the second linebacker to win the Super Bowl MVP (Chuck Howley won in SB V) and the first linebacker to win the award on the winning Super Bowl team.

Lambert was elected to 9 Pro Bowls, won the Defensive Player of the year once, had 23.5 sacks to Ray’s 33.5, 1479 tackles versus Ray’s 1636, and the same number of interceptions that Ray has at 28.

Ray Lewis is still playing and will improve upon what is obviously a better career, unless you are a towel waving moron who wants to compare Super Bowl wins, thus completely suggesting the game is a one man sport and not that of a 53 player team.

Just go back and stand under the power lines!

Then you could look at Peter Boulware and compare his stats to Jack Ham, who one pundit called the best outside linebacker of all-time and obviously never heard of Lawrence Taylor.

Peter Boulware had 70 career sacks in 8 seasons, 4 Pro Bowls, and won Defensive rookie of the year. Where Jack Ham had 25 sacks in his 11 seasons, 8 Pro Bowls, and 21 fumble recoveries to Boulware’s 5. Basically, two totally different players excelling in different phases of the game, but to say one was marginally better than the other would be tough to argue.

Now I could compare Jamie Sharper to Dirt Winston, but you’d just change the channel (as perhaps I should have while watching this program).

One interesting thing I did find out while looking into the stats of each player, is that if you added up all of the career sacks of each player from each team, you would find that the Steel Curtain front 7 players had total of 295.5 sacks throughout their careers and the Ravens had 294.5 sacks collectively among each player throughout their careers. These of course are just the stats for the starting front seven.

Moving to the secondary and excluding comparisons to marginal players, you could move onto star cornerbacks. I would lose a lot of respect if I tried to compare Chris McAlister to Mel Blount as Blount dominated throughout his career. CMac is a Pro Bowler but it ends there. However, as I stated earlier, Blount was allowed to make contact all the way down the field which does make covering a lot easier.

As far as the safeties go, I would take Rod Woodson as my safety over anyone the Steelers had.

So all in all upon dissecting the teams through statistical analysis, it is hard to conclude that one defense is better than the other. I suppose you could use things like the number of championships and longevity as part of your argument. That said an intelligent NFL fan would be mindful that free agency and the salary cap didn’t exist in the late seventies making the argument for the Steelers even less relevant.

But can we really assume such intelligence from a Pennsylvania mining town education?

On whole, the NFL Network presentation left a ton to be desired, even dismissing things like number of defensive snaps per game. I feel pretty confident saying that the Ravens defense spent more time on the field because that 2000 Trent Dilfer led offense is nowhere near the Steelers offense of the late 70’s.

But hey, that’s just me.

And as I say, “nobody asked me” anyway.

76 steeler D was the best ever ...........:tt03::tt03::tt03::tt03::tt03:

Ravens Super Bowl D not far behind nor teh Bears 85 D

KingofSparta
06-29-2009, 09:26 PM
Don't forget to show a little love to the 2008 Steelers Defense. They may have had the worst fourth quarter outing in Super Bowl history, but consider the following:

1976 Steelers:
9.86 Points Per Game, 3.8 Yards Per Play, 4.5 Yards Per Pass, 3.2 Yards Per Rush
The "Wow" Factor: 28 points surrendered in the last 9 games of the season, 5 of which were shutouts.

1985 Bears:
12.38 Points Per Game, 4.4 Yards Per Play, 4.8 Yards Per Pass, 3.7 Yards Per Rush
The "Wow" Factor: Gave up only 10 points in the entire postseason en route to winning Super Bowl 20.

2000 Ravens:
10.31 Points Per Game, 4.3 Yards Per Play, 5.3 Yards Per Pass, 2.7 Yards Per Rush
The "Wow" Factor: Set (and hold) the NFL Record for Fewest Points Allowed in a 16 Game Season and Fewest Rushing Yards Allowed

2008 Steelers
13.94 Points Per Game, 3.9 Yards Per Play, 4.3 Yards Per Pass, 3.3 Yards Per Rush
The "Wow" Factor: Tied an NFL Record with 14 consecutive games holding opponents to under 300 yards.

Aside from the points per game factor and the nostalgia factor of placing the 1976 Team on its own untouchable pedestal, the 2008 Steelers were at least statistically every bit as good as the 76 group and were at least statistically superior to both the 85 Bears and the 2000 Ravens. I realize that there is far more to any analysis of the NFL's All Time Great Single Season Defenses, that the rules of the game have changed, and other factors, but aside from everyone being a Steelers fan and homer (like me and everybody else on here) I do strongly believe that the 08 Steelers deserve to be mentioned among those greats. I could conceivably make a strong case for them being 2nd on the list.

KingofSparta
06-29-2009, 09:38 PM
The teams above were listed in chronological order by the way, not by any formal ranking system that I used.

Except for the 1976 Steelers of course. They own that spot. :helmet: