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revefsreleets
07-08-2009, 08:44 AM
First off, I have stated many times that I am very much against "Hate Crime Laws". They seem stupid and redundant...why would it be WORSE to pick a victim based on race or sexual orientation? If someone gets tied to a post and beaten to death, the penalty should be as harsh as possible regardless of the motivation. It doesn't make the crime "better" if it was white on white, and it doesn't make it worse if it's motivated by something else.

That being said, this stupid POS law is on the books, so my question is, WHY is it not applied in any sort of realistic and consistent fashion. Read this story and tell me how this is NOT a hate crime, and ask yourself if it was 50 white kids and a black family would the case be the same? I guarantee you it would not...in fact, Jesse and Al would have been in Akron calling for the death penalty for the white kids.

http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/50172282.html

Akron police investigate teen mob attack on family By Phil Trexler
Beacon Journal staff writer



Akron police say they aren't ready to call it a hate crime or a gang initiation.
But to Marty Marshall, his wife and two kids, it seems pretty clear.
It came after a family night of celebrating America and freedom with a fireworks show at Firestone Stadium. Marshall, his family and two friends were gathered outside a friend's home in South Akron.
Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.
The Marshalls, who are white, say the crowd of teens who attacked them and two friends June 27 on Girard Street numbered close to 50. The teens were all black.
''This was almost like being a terrorist act,'' Marshall said. ''And we allow this to go on in our neighborhoods?''
They said it started when one teen, without any words or warning, blindsided and assaulted Marshall's friend as he stood outside with the others.
When Marshall, 39, jumped in, he found himself being attacked by the growing group of teens.
His daughter, Rachel, 15, who weighs about 90 pounds, tried to come to his rescue. The teens pushed her to the ground.
His wife, Yvonne, pushed their son, Donald, 14, into bushes to keep him protected.
''My thing is,'' Marshall said, ''I didn't want this, but I was in fear for my wife, my kids and my friends. I felt I had to stay out there to protect them, because those guys were just jumping, swinging fists and everything.
''I'm lucky. They didn't break my ribs or bruise my ribs. I thank God, they concentrated on my thick head because I do have one. They were trying to take my head off my spine, basically.''
After several minutes of punches and kicks, the attack ended and the group ran off. The Marshalls' two adult male friends were not seriously hurt.
''I don't think I thought at that moment when I tried to jump in,'' Rachel Marshall said. ''But when I was laying on the ground, I was just scared.''
Marshall was the most seriously injured. He suffered a concussion and multiple bruises to his head and eye. He said he spent five nights in the critical care unit at Akron General Medical Center.
The construction worker said he now fears for his family's safety, and the thousands of dollars in medical bills he faces without insurance.
''I knew I was going to get beat, but not as bad as I did,'' Marshall said. ''But I did it to protect my family. I didn't have a choice. There was no need for this. We should be all getting along. But to me, it seems to be racist.''
Akron police are investigating. Right now, the case is not being classified as a racial hate crime. There were no other reports of victims assaulted by the group that night.
The department's gang unit is involved in the investigation, police said.
''We don't know if it's a known gang, or just a group of kids,'' police Lt. Rick Edwards said.
The Marshalls say they fear retaliation at home or when they go outside. They are considering arming themselves, but they're concerned about the possible problems that come with guns.
For now, they are hoping police can bring them suspects. They believe they can identify several of the attackers.
''This makes you think about your freedom,'' Marshall said. ''In all reality, where is your freedom when you have this going on?''

MACH1
07-08-2009, 09:02 AM
If the circumstances were switched around, they would be calling it a lynch mob.

stlrtruck
07-08-2009, 09:20 AM
Welcome to reverse racism. I saw a good serving of this in the Navy. And while people want to turn their head to it, it is becoming more common.

If minorities do something it's for their freedom, their rights. But if a majority group does the exact same thing it's based on hate! This countries moral and ethic compass is so screwed up!

SteelersinCA
07-08-2009, 09:57 AM
Whats the ORC define a hate crime as?

revefsreleets
07-08-2009, 10:01 AM
Ohio Revised Code qualifies any crime committed motivated by race, color, religion or national origin as a hate crime.

This IS a hate crime...but why aren't they treating it as such? This is a major reason why this stupid-assed law needs taken off the books yesterday.

stlrtruck
07-08-2009, 10:18 AM
Ohio Revised Code qualifies any crime committed motivated by race, color, religion or national origin as a hate crime.

This IS a hate crime...but why aren't they treating it as such? This is a major reason why this stupid-assed law needs taken off the books yesterday.

Come on Rev you know the answer to that question. If you're a white victim then it wasn't hate.

revefsreleets
07-08-2009, 10:24 AM
Come on Rev you know the answer to that question. If you're a white victim then it wasn't hate.

We had it coming to us?

KeiselPower99
07-08-2009, 10:42 AM
Its complete bullshit. I hate to say it but White people get shit on every possible chance presented. Racism is racism regardless how is doing it or receiving it.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
07-08-2009, 10:50 AM
not racist at all but these are the things that bother me..
another example of reverse racism is this.
a college in my area has on their home page "a great black college"..... now.. its open to anyone.... what if the college i went to said..."a great white college" on their home page? they would proubably be shut down

Its a one way street... and it needs to stop..

SCSTILLER
07-08-2009, 11:03 AM
Sounds like a hate crime to me! First off they shouted "This is a black world, this is our world" then attacked a group of whites. Would they have attacked the same family if they were black? NOPE! I do agree with you Rev's, hate crimes are total BS! A crime is a crime!

I agree with everyone, turn the tables. White kids yell "This is a white world" and attack a family of blacks, game over. Sharpton, Jackson, NAACP, and the gang would all be there. It is complete BS.

BIGBEN, you are completely right. I saw on BET they had a black pocker tournament (was flipping channels) on their station, now imagine if it was WET (white entertainment television) and it was a white pocker tournament, GAME OVER! RACISM< RACISM< RACISM!

It is not an even playing field anymore!

KeiselPower99
07-08-2009, 12:20 PM
BET is the ultimate show of racism out there. IF there was a White Entertainment Channel or a White history month everyone would be outraged.

X-Terminator
07-08-2009, 12:37 PM
Textbook definition of a hate crime.

As many of you know, I am black...and I disagree with the whole notion of "hate crimes." All crime of this nature is based on hate, and it shouldn't matter who is on the giving end nor the business end. There is clearly a double-standard when it comes to racism in this country, and it's going to get to the point where "white guilt" will be replaced with anger and hatred. I do NOT want to see that happen, so it's time for black people to stop screaming "racism" at every turn. It's nothing but a crutch, IMO, and it takes away from real racism toward blacks which definitely still exists and always will exist. On top of that, it's getting a little bit tedious having to constantly explain that not every black person is a thug or a criminal, when I shouldn't have to go to such lengths.

Godfather
07-08-2009, 12:59 PM
On top of that, it's getting a little bit tedious having to constantly explain that not every black person is a thug or a criminal, when I shouldn't have to go to such lengths.

:drink:

I agree 100% that you shouldn't have to go to those lengths.

Funny thing is with all the white people who whine about double standards, isn't it a double standard that black people are judged collectively by the worst individuals, while white people don't get blamed for white criminals? Isn't it a double standard that what Nifong did to the Duke lacrosse players is common in the criminal justice system, but it's only grounds for disbarment when the victims are white?

Double standards are a two-way street. And they're going to be around as long as people (both black and white) only complain when their own ox gets gored.

revefsreleets
07-08-2009, 01:15 PM
Hence my reason for posting this. "Hate Crime" is a stupid idea to begin with, but when it's not going to be equally enforced, than even supporters of something so stupid should be scratching their head and asking why it's in place if it isn't going to be utilized in EVERY instance of racially motivated crime.

Godfather
07-08-2009, 01:26 PM
Hence my reason for posting this. "Hate Crime" is a stupid idea to begin with, but when it's not going to be equally enforced, than even supporters of something so stupid should be scratching their head and asking why it's in place if it isn't going to be utilized in EVERY instance of racially motivated crime.

I agree with that 100%. Bias crimes are a form of terrorism, but we should lower the boom in all cases. Why pass up any available tool that can keep scum behind bars longer?

steelreserve
07-08-2009, 01:31 PM
Welcome to reverse racism. I saw a good serving of this in the Navy. And while people want to turn their head to it, it is becoming more common.

It pisses me off that people even use the term "reverse racism" at all. Racism is racism, period. It's no different if it's a black guy being racist again a white guy. And quite honestly, calling it reverse racism is equivalent to saying that white people are the only ones who are normally racist, which I don't appreciate at all.

If you ask me, it couldn't be farther from the truth -- beyond a certain segment of rednecks, white people seem to have pretty much found better things to do than be racist. Now compare that to a huge number of all-black neighborhoods around the country, where there's no small risk of getting beaten up, robbed or even killed for being white -- and at the very least, most people will give you dirty looks just for walking down the street. How the hell is that "reverse" racism?

Note: I'm not trying to single you out as an idiot for using that term or anything -- I know it's become widespread enough that people barely even think about it anymore. It's just the word itself that I object to.

stlrtruck
07-08-2009, 01:36 PM
Textbook definition of a hate crime.

As many of you know, I am black...and I disagree with the whole notion of "hate crimes." All crime of this nature is based on hate, and it shouldn't matter who is on the giving end nor the business end. There is clearly a double-standard when it comes to racism in this country, and it's going to get to the point where "white guilt" will be replaced with anger and hatred. I do NOT want to see that happen, so it's time for black people to stop screaming "racism" at every turn. It's nothing but a crutch, IMO, and it takes away from real racism toward blacks which definitely still exists and always will exist. On top of that, it's getting a little bit tedious having to constantly explain that not every black person is a thug or a criminal, when I shouldn't have to go to such lengths.

Well stated. This country was a great country when a man/woman was judged by their words/actions and not the color of their skin!

:drink:

I agree 100% that you shouldn't have to go to those lengths.

Funny thing is with all the white people who whine about double standards, isn't it a double standard that black people are judged collectively by the worst individuals, while white people don't get blamed for white criminals? Isn't it a double standard that what Nifong did to the Duke lacrosse players is common in the criminal justice system, but it's only grounds for disbarment when the victims are white?

Double standards are a two-way street. And they're going to be around as long as people (both black and white) only complain when their own ox gets gored.

And this will never end until people start looking at people as individuals. Unfortunately there are some people that can't get past the stereotypes that have been put in place by several facets of our society.

revefsreleets
07-08-2009, 02:05 PM
Bear in mind, there is a difference between racism and prejudice: We are ALL prejudiced, meaning we all make judgments before we have all the facts. That does not necessarily translate into racism. Prejudice is a snap-judgment, racism is the persistence of that judgment after a more rational calculation has been made.

I would even go as far as saying the prejudice is a defense mechanism, and a good one. If I see a big group of skinheads, or a group of obviously black gang members, I feel pretty much exactly the same way: En garde.

However, that passes unless there is some other reason to be defensive. This segues into other areas, obviously, notably racial profiling in re terrorists and the like. We weaken our natural instinctual defenses when we let political correctness trump common sense.

mcmac
07-08-2009, 06:15 PM
Damn home boy can we at least have one channel, hell you got ABC,CBS,NBC are you pissed off because we have 1 channel? BET is 4 everybody,white people come on the show 2

TheWarDen86
07-08-2009, 06:25 PM
If the circumstances were switched around, they would be calling it a lynch mob.

Not to mention that the Feds would be getting involved. No Al Sharpton I guess?

mcmac
07-08-2009, 07:23 PM
I was hoping the story ended with a few of the 'black world' laying on their back with fatal gun shot wounds.

My buddy was in front of his barbar shop with his little boy after a hair cut when two blacks (thats as nice as I can be) came up and held a knife to his face, knocked his boy on the ground as they stole his wallet and beat the piss out of him. He's got a nice 4-5" gash on his face now. It might be time for a concealed weapon permit..

edit:

If this situation was the opposite and it was a group of white skin heads who attacked a black family, I would've hoped for the same out come. We don't have room in this world for the loose cannons to go around killing, stealing, and provoking violence. We all have enough problems as it is already.

My 'hatred' or 'racism' isn't based on color, but ones actions. Someone who causes unnecessary harm to someone deserves punishment regardless of color, or beliefs.

I think you wanted to call them the N word is that right?

Godfather
07-08-2009, 07:34 PM
Not to mention that the Feds would be getting involved. No Al Sharpton I guess?

They didn't step in with when the Razzoo's bouncers killed a black guy on Bourbon Street. Not even after the first two bouncers got jury nullification acquittals and the DA gave up.

TheWarDen86
07-08-2009, 07:50 PM
They didn't step in with when the Razzoo's bouncers killed a black guy on Bourbon Street. Not even after the first two bouncers got jury nullification acquittals and the DA gave up.

That wasn't a crowd of 30+ on 3 or 4.

If this police department doesn't do anything and the Fed's DON'T get involved, I will be pissed. Same as I would if it were reversed.

I just think that there would be more outrage and official reaction if it were reversed. Take for instance, the fact that I've only seen this story on here. Not in my local paper or anywhere else. Do you think it would be the same if it was 30+ whites on a black family? You bet your ass it wouldn't.

fansince'76
07-08-2009, 08:27 PM
I think you wanted to call them the N word is that right?

Way to put words in people's mouths.

mcmac
07-08-2009, 08:40 PM
Way to put words in people's mouths.

Well what the hell did you think he wanted to say?

fansince'76
07-08-2009, 08:42 PM
Well what the hell did you think he wanted to say?

He didn't say it, so why the hell make an issue of it besides to obviously race-bait?

mcmac
07-08-2009, 08:48 PM
He didn't say it, so why the hell make an issue of it besides to obviously race-bait?

Guess what genius he cant say it ! or can he?

fansince'76
07-08-2009, 08:50 PM
Be nice to get a newb that wasn't a complete jackass around here for a change....

TheWarDen86
07-08-2009, 09:12 PM
Be nice to get a newb that wasn't a complete jackass around here for a change....

:toofunny:

I feel your pain Buddy.

MasterOfPuppets
07-08-2009, 09:57 PM
Be nice to get a newb that wasn't a complete jackass around here for a change....
if they start off as jackasses, odds are it's not going to get better... i myself like to subscribe to the "nip it in the bud" theory....:popcorn:

43Hitman
07-08-2009, 10:02 PM
if they start off as jackasses, odds are it's not going to get better... i myself like to subscribe to the "nip it in the bud" theory....:popcorn:

That is quite profound my friend...:applaudit:

Preacher
07-08-2009, 10:27 PM
sssqBjaTzOU

X-Terminator
07-08-2009, 10:31 PM
Be nice to get a newb that wasn't a complete jackass around here for a change....

Not technically a noob since he's been here since last October...but no less a jackass.

MasterOfPuppets
07-09-2009, 01:54 AM
It pisses me off that people even use the term "reverse racism" at all. Racism is racism, period. It's no different if it's a black guy being racist again a white guy. And quite honestly, calling it reverse racism is equivalent to saying that white people are the only ones who are normally racist, which I don't appreciate at all.
. i've always kind of associated the term more with the way government deals with the issue of racism. by "reverse" , i think it means what they can get away with,BECAUSE, of thier race. ... i mean how long would a tv network get away with being called "white entertainment television , or the united caucasion college fund, or the white miss america beauty pagent, before the term racist gets thrown at them and they get the plug pulled on them. what about losing out on a job to a minority, even though your 10 times more qualified just because your skin color just ain't the right shade ? isn't that the kinda shit the black man has fought to overcome ? wasn't laws put into place to stop this kinda stuff ? yet here it still is , they just put the shoe on the other foot. that to me is where the term "reverse" comes in. if we're going to stamp out racism and discrimination they sure as hell are going about it the wrong way . all they're doing is fanning the flames in a different, or "reversed" direction. if your gonna make laws to level the playing field, then make the shit apply TO ALL races .

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
07-09-2009, 02:33 AM
what about losing out on a job to a minority, even though your 10 times more qualified just because your skin color just ain't the right shade ?

This is why I wish there wasn't a place to mark "race" or "gender" on a job or school application. If your grades, qualifications, experience, etc. are up to standard, you get in. It should be that simple.

As others have stated having a double standard only fuels racism. Like when I get in a discussion with a black person about Obama, I get called a "racist" for disagreeing with him.

Someone else mentioned the fact that they hated having to explain the fact that all black people aren't thugs. I think the problem is that being a "thug" or whatever is so prolific in black culture and media (mostly rap music). Being thug, drug dealer, etc. is glorified in black music and white people are force fed this image through music videos and lyrics.

African American is another term that annoys the shit out of me. If you never lived in Africa, you aren't African. I am not a Polish American, I am an American.

X-Terminator
07-09-2009, 03:35 AM
:drink:

I agree 100% that you shouldn't have to go to those lengths.

Funny thing is with all the white people who whine about double standards, isn't it a double standard that black people are judged collectively by the worst individuals, while white people don't get blamed for white criminals? Isn't it a double standard that what Nifong did to the Duke lacrosse players is common in the criminal justice system, but it's only grounds for disbarment when the victims are white?

Double standards are a two-way street. And they're going to be around as long as people (both black and white) only complain when their own ox gets gored.

This is why I wish there wasn't a place to mark "race" or "gender" on a job or school application. If your grades, qualifications, experience, etc. are up to standard, you get in. It should be that simple.

As others have stated having a double standard only fuels racism. Like when I get in a discussion with a black person about Obama, I get called a "racist" for disagreeing with him.

Someone else mentioned the fact that they hated having to explain the fact that all black people aren't thugs. I think the problem is that being a "thug" or whatever is so prolific in black culture and media (mostly rap music). Being thug, drug dealer, etc. is glorified in black music and white people are force fed this image through music videos and lyrics.

That was me who mentioned that, and I agree that the image of black people is not helped by the glorification of the "thug culture." But again, not all of us are like that - even if they may listen to that kind of music (which I personally do not - I generally listen to rock and metal), and it is most definitely a double-standard. The vast majority of black people just want to live their lives, provide for their families and basically be left alone. Lord knows I get tired of pointing that out. It almost got to the point where I wanted to hold a sign that said "I am not a thug, I don't own a gun, I am at least partially educated and have a good job. So you can unclench your asshole any second now!"

However, it does not change the fact that, as I said earlier, most of us need to stop crying "racism" at every turn, when it clearly is not justified. A white person criticizing Obama is NOT racist - that's just ridiculous. But the day he was elected, I expected that to happen - he will basically get a free pass to do whatever he wants without much criticism, because they don't want to be labeled a racist. And if I criticize him, I get bashed for it and called names as well, or at the very least be questioned - even by members of my own family. So when anything about Obama comes up when I'm around my family or back in my own neighborhood, I don't say anything. But I have never been one to follow in lockstep with the masses. I march to the beat of my own drum, I have a mind of my own, and I refuse to apologize for that.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
07-09-2009, 04:21 AM
But I have never been one to follow in lockstep with the masses. I march to the beat of my own drum, I have a mind of my own, and I refuse to apologize for that.

Very well said sir.

To quote the great AlfonZo Rachel of MachoSauceProductions:

"Skin color does not define your behavior, skin color does not put limits on you, and skin color does not make you a victim"

If you are a conservative you owe it to yourself to visit his youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/machosauceproduction

stlrtruck
07-09-2009, 07:47 AM
It pisses me off that people even use the term "reverse racism" at all. Racism is racism, period. It's no different if it's a black guy being racist again a white guy. And quite honestly, calling it reverse racism is equivalent to saying that white people are the only ones who are normally racist, which I don't appreciate at all.

If you ask me, it couldn't be farther from the truth -- beyond a certain segment of rednecks, white people seem to have pretty much found better things to do than be racist. Now compare that to a huge number of all-black neighborhoods around the country, where there's no small risk of getting beaten up, robbed or even killed for being white -- and at the very least, most people will give you dirty looks just for walking down the street. How the hell is that "reverse" racism?

Note: I'm not trying to single you out as an idiot for using that term or anything -- I know it's become widespread enough that people barely even think about it anymore. It's just the word itself that I object to.

I see your point. However, I believe the term is used to make a point that racism flows both ways and the fact remains that very little is done when it flows in the opposite direction. Our community systems are so out of balance that they choose to wear blinders unless the crime is towards minorities. I think the true problem has become that the blacks (in this case) feel they have a right to make such ignorant comments and take such violent actions. And yet our judicial systems chooses to take baby steps in calling this what it truly is - a hate crimem, or better yet just a pre-meditated crime (regardless of motive!).

I think you're right that many white people have found better things to do. But I'll take that one step farther. A lot of the educated people in this country have found better things to do and have learned that what they thought was wrong with the "other" person was what was more wrong with them and they've learned to accept "others" for who they are and the fact that they didn't fit the media profile.

The problem still remains in the uneducated or the areas where hatred is bred in them from conception. The media continues to play this up and as it becomes mainstream, the good that comes from the "others" is overlooked and swept to a 2 minute story or the back page. All the while, the minority racists continue to make front page news.

NOTE: I took no offense to anything you said there. It's all good! :drink:

revefsreleets
07-09-2009, 08:02 AM
In regards to the noob, I don't think it's longevity as much as it is post count. For some reason, they all seem to implode as they close in on that 100th post. This particular guy lost it around 30. Thumper lost his mind at 200. Either way, the over/under is probably a median of 100 posts.

Dino 6 Rings
07-09-2009, 08:19 AM
This story is on Drudge now, so that means it should be picked up by the bigger media and eventually Fox and I have a feeling, this could be labelled a "hate crime" if for no other reason than a sacraficial lamb to the 'whites' who cry "what about us"

revefsreleets
07-09-2009, 08:23 AM
Well, again, if we are going to have hate crime legislation, they might as well actually enforce it when it occurs.

SteelersinCA
07-09-2009, 09:35 AM
To me this is a far worse reflection of what is wrong with the system than what Stallworth got. It's a shame the authorities in Akron refuse to apply laws consistently and fairly.

revefsreleets
07-09-2009, 09:55 AM
There have been a couple police shooting with black victims that the black community has questioned (even after outside auditors cleared the cops of any wrongdoing). My guess is this is 100% politically motivated to "Keep the Peace".

That's wrong, though...you don't change the rules just to be politically correct.

steelpinstripe72
07-09-2009, 11:36 AM
what about losing out on a job to a minority, even though your 10 times more qualified just because your skin color just ain't the right shade ?

This, right here. Another thing is that employers say they first look at people because they're minorities (affirmative action), but apparently, it's only racial minorities that count for anything. I got told once that I'm not a minority...I was just like, "Excuse you? Seriously?" One of the reasons affirmative action needs to go...it just doesn't work.

SteelersMongol
07-09-2009, 08:23 PM
...Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family...

If they said all this words, then YES. It is a HATE CRIME, & they all should B addressed by Jesse Jackson & who else. :wink02: