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onefortheotherhand
07-18-2009, 08:19 PM
as a native michigander the lions are usually in my top three favorite teams, however whenever anyone says something about the lions its usually something bad and demeaning.

so i'd like to ask you guys if you think the lions will improve and if you think any of their draft picks will contribute

CantStop85
07-18-2009, 08:39 PM
so i'd like to ask you guys if you think the lions will improve and if you think any of their draft picks will contribute
I'm pretty sure improving is their only option after an 0-16 season.

Psyychoward86
07-18-2009, 09:44 PM
I think Pettigrew's got good odds of being able to contribute immediately. In the case that Stafford wins the starting job, he'll need a security blanket to throw to, and Pettigrew would be great for him in the short passing game. Safety Louis Delma is underrated and he might be able to help that crappy secondary quickly. Runningback Aaron Brown I think has great chances of being the starting kick returner.

You cant forget what they did in FA either. Buchanon from the Bucs is a good corner, and I dont think he'll do too bad. The biggest thing they've done by far in FA though is the boost in the linebacker corp, trading for Julian Peterson and signing Larry Foote were great moves. That's a great change to the Lion's linebacker corp. Think about it: Ernie Sims, Julian Peterson, and Larry Foote. All of a sudden the 2nd tier of the Lions defense looks promising.

MasterOfPuppets
07-18-2009, 10:19 PM
I'm pretty sure improving is their only option after an 0-16 season.

:toofunny: yeppers...no place to go but up.... although they could defend thier winless record ...:scratchchin: .... yeah i think they might win 2 or 3 games ... but they should still be in the running for that coveted first draft pick...:chuckle:
rams
bengals
browns
9'ers
they could win 2 out of those 4...

Psyychoward86
07-18-2009, 10:57 PM
uh, ok, 2-3 games is just a a dumb insult to the Lions. They have some talent here and there and the schedule isnt too hefty. Probably 6 wins is a good ballpark estimate. More isnt out of question.

fansince'76
07-18-2009, 11:42 PM
The Dolphins went from 1-15 in '07 to 11-5 last year, so anything's possible, particularly with a last-place schedule.

MasterOfPuppets
07-19-2009, 12:27 AM
uh, ok, 2-3 games is just a a dumb insult to the Lions. They have some talent here and there and the schedule isnt too hefty. Probably 6 wins is a good ballpark estimate. More isnt out of question.
so tell us what games they're most likely to win ....remember the other shitty teams added "talent" as well. thier season most likely hinges on a rookie qb, that i didn't find to be all that impressive in college. not to mention an entirely new coaching staff and system. but as 76 eluded to, in this nfl anyone can do a 360.

* Sun 9/13 at New Orleans 1:00 pm
* Sun 9/20 Minnesota 1:00 pm
* Sun 9/27 Washington 1:00 pm
* Sun 10/4 at Chicago 1:00 pm
* Sun 10/11 Pittsburgh 1:00 pm
* Sun 10/18 at Green Bay 1:00 pm
* bye
* Sun 11/1 St. Louis 1:00 pm
* Sun 11/8 at Seattle 4:05 pm
* Sun 11/15 at Minnesota 1:00 pm
* Sun 11/22 Cleveland 1:00 pm
* Thu 11/26 Green Bay 12:30 pm
* Sun 12/6 at Cincinnati 1:00 pm
* Sun 12/13 at Baltimore 1:00 pm
* Sun 12/20 Arizona 1:00 pm
* Sun 12/27 at San Francisco 4:05 pm
* Sun 1/3 Chicago 1:00 pm

this guy sums it up pretty well, as to why the lions will continue to be bottom feeders despite the few upgrades they may have made....

Other than quarterback, left tackle is the most important position on the field; you can't win if you don't protect your quarterback.

The incumbent player at that position is Jeff Backus, a sieve of all sieves who has given up 9.5, 15.5 and 9.25 sacks in the past three years. And if that wasn't bad enough, Backus had been whistled for 27 penalties in that span, a pretty embarrassing number.

Backus would be less of a liability at guard, so it made all the sense in the world for the Lions to draft Michael Oher at No. 20 or William Beatty at No. 33. Unfortunately, they opted for positions of lesser importance, while the Giants and Ravens, two of the more successful organizations in the NFL, came away with the two tackles.

With Backus penciled in on the blind side, the Lions have all but guaranteed themselves one of the worst pass protection schemes in the league. Right tackle Gosder Cherilus was horrific in 13 starts, surrendering six sacks and getting called for eight penalties. Cherilus will have to hold off the newly acquired Jon Jansen, who really struggled with the Redskins last year.

Looking at the top of the page, it's evident that the Lions made numerous acquisitions this offseason, but did they do enough positive things to vastly improve their pathetic stop unit?

In terms of stopping the run, I'd say no. There's still a huge void at defensive tackle. The Lions attempted to fill it with the 6-2, 345-pound Grady Jackson. However, Jackson, who turned 36 in January, really struggled with the Falcons last year. And it gets worse - there's a good chance Jackson will be suspended for the first four games of the season for taking StarCaps. Detroit also drafted the 330-pound Sammie Lee Hill in the fourth round, but there's no telling if he's going to pan out.

SteelersMongol
07-19-2009, 01:00 AM
Oh man, I'd love 2 C the Lions finally start kicking some butts around.

so tell us what games they're most likely to win ....remember the other shitty teams added "talent" as well. thier season most likely hinges on a rookie qb, that i didn't find to be all that impressive in college. not to mention an entirely new coaching staff and system. but as 76 eluded to, in this nfl anyone can do a 360.

* Sun 9/13 at New Orleans 1:00 pm
* Sun 9/20 Minnesota 1:00 pm
* Sun 9/27 Washington 1:00 pm
* Sun 10/4 at Chicago 1:00 pm
* Sun 10/11 Pittsburgh 1:00 pm
* Sun 10/18 at Green Bay 1:00 pm
* bye
* Sun 11/1 St. Louis 1:00 pm
* Sun 11/8 at Seattle 4:05 pm
* Sun 11/15 at Minnesota 1:00 pm
* Sun 11/22 Cleveland 1:00 pm
* Thu 11/26 Green Bay 12:30 pm
* Sun 12/6 at Cincinnati 1:00 pm
* Sun 12/13 at Baltimore 1:00 pm
* Sun 12/20 Arizona 1:00 pm
* Sun 12/27 at San Francisco 4:05 pm
* Sun 1/3 Chicago 1:00 pm

this guy sums it up pretty well, as to why the lions will continue to be bottom feeders despite the few upgrades they may have made....

From this they could easily B 5-11. As 4 the rest, it looks not that easy.

The Duke
07-19-2009, 01:56 AM
The Dolphins went from 1-15 in '07 to 11-5 last year, so anything's possible, particularly with a last-place schedule.

0-16 to 16-0! you heard it here first :chuckle:

I honestly can't see them beating anyone in their division. except MAYBE chicago on the final week of the season if they are resting for the playoffs

other than that I could see them beating the rams or 49ers. but that's about it....

MasterOfPuppets
07-19-2009, 02:45 AM
is curry, northcut,and johnson, really upgrades over williams, furry, and macdonald ? :noidea: ...to me it seems like they traded 3 average receivers for 3 average more expensive receivers (3 yrs 9 mill for johnson ??? )....although they did give the idiot jones the shaft on the williams trade....:laughing:

Veteran Additions:
RB Maurice Morris, WR Dennis Northcutt, WR Ronald Curry, WR Bryant Johnson, TE Will Heller, OT Daniel Loper, OT Jon Jansen, DE Jason Hunter, DT Grady Jackson, OLB Julian Peterson, ILB Larry Foote, ILB Cody Spencer, CB Phillip Buchanon, CB Eric King, CB/S Anthony Henry, S Marquand Manuel.
Draft Picks:
QB Matt Stafford, TE Brandon Pettigrew, FS Louis Delmas, LB DeAndre Levy, WR Derrick Williams, DT Sammie Lee Hill, RB Aaron Brown, OT Lydon Murtha, OLB Zack Follett, TE Dan Gronkowski.
Offseason Losses:
QB Jon Kitna, QB Dan Orlovsky, QB Drew Henson, RB Rudi Johnson, FB Moran Norris, FB Jon Bradley, WR Shaun McDonald, WR Mike Furrey, TE Dan Campbell, TE Michael Gaines, TE John Owens, OT George Foster, OT Junius Coston, OT Jon Dunn, G Edwin Mulitalo, C Andy McCollum, DE Corey Smith, DT Cory Redding DT Shaun Cody, DT Langston Moore, OLB Ryan Nece, OLB Alex Lewis, ILB Paris Lenon, CB Leigh Bodden, CB Travis Fisher, CB Stanley Wilson, S Dwight Smith.

CantStop85
07-19-2009, 06:31 AM
is curry, northcut,and johnson, really upgrades over williams, furry, and macdonald ? :noidea: ...to me it seems like they traded 3 average receivers for 3 average more expensive receivers (3 yrs 9 mill for johnson ??? )....although they did give the idiot jones the shaft on the williams trade....:laughing:

I do think they're moving in the right direction as far as turning over the roster, getting rid of the overpaid Cory Redding, the over-the-hill veterans (Mike Furrey, Dan Campbell, George Foster, Andy McCollum, Travis Fisher, Dwight Smith), and the never-have-beens (Shaun Cody, Dan Orlovsky, Drew Henson).

Not to mention they won't have Jon "the voice of God" Kitna starting behind center anymore.

I'm not really sold on their draft picks yet, but I think the general infusion of youth into the lions alone will win them a couple of games. Right now I would put them down for 4-12.

steelreserve
07-20-2009, 11:38 AM
I'm predicting they'll win at least three games. It's pretty rare to have a season with two wins or less, and nobody's done it back-to-back since the Buccaneers in 1985-86. To do that badly, you've got to be bad AND unlucky.

Over the past 10 years, the average performance for a team that went 4-12 or worse is a 3.7-win improvement the next year. Throw out the Dolphins' performance last year as an anomaly, and the average is still about 3.5 wins better. Part of it is probably the result of getting better draft picks, part of it is the weaker schedule, but that's about what you can expect.

HometownGal
07-20-2009, 12:13 PM
I'm sorry, but at some point, they have to get better. Going 0-16 - can't get any worse.

If you will recall, our beloved Steelers were at the bottom of the barrel in the late 60's and early 70's and with great draft choices, a new HC (Noll), comradery and very hard work, the Steelers turned everything around and went on to become the dynasty of the 70's. :tt02:

St33lersguy
07-20-2009, 12:31 PM
3 or 4 wins I am guessing.

thier season most likely hinges on a rookie qb, that i didn't find to be all that impressive in college

I don't think they will rush Stafford into the lineup, I think they'll have Daunte Culpepper mentor him 1st.

TackleMeBen
07-20-2009, 12:35 PM
I'm sorry, but at some point, they have to get better. Going 0-16 - can't get any worse.

If you will recall, our beloved Steelers were at the bottom of the barrel in the late 60's and early 70's and with great draft choices, a new HC (Noll), comradery and very hard work, the Steelers turned everything around and went on to become the dynasty of the 70's. :tt02:
so what you are saying marianne is that the lions can become the dynasty of the future??lol.:chuckle:

i dont see them winning many games, maybe 3 tops. at least they dont have millen making bad decisions anymore. the new coach seems to have the players in control and maybe they get turn their losing attitudes into winning attitudes.

steelreserve
07-20-2009, 01:00 PM
I'm sorry, but at some point, they have to get better. Going 0-16 - can't get any worse.

If you will recall, our beloved Steelers were at the bottom of the barrel in the late 60's and early 70's and with great draft choices, a new HC (Noll), comradery and very hard work, the Steelers turned everything around and went on to become the dynasty of the 70's. :tt02:

One problem with that is that getting the top draft pick isn't an automatic help anymore. It's more like a $70 million hand of blackjack that you're forced to play. 20 years ago, as long as you got a good player with a top-five pick, it helped the team. If he was a bust, that was too bad, but it wasn't the end of the world. Simple enough.

Nowadays, if your top pick turns out to be anything less than a superstar, you're screwed because you're going to be in salary cap hell. Especially with the #1 pick, unless you hit an absolute home run, knock the ball out of the park, your misery is extended.

Based on their track record of 50 years of futility and bad decisions, I do not expect the Lions to do well at this game. And the fact that they were reduced to picking Stafford basically for lack of a better option really seems to set them up for failure again.

revefsreleets
07-20-2009, 01:46 PM
Agreed...they totally wasted the 1st pick...Stafford wasn't even the best QUARTERBACK in this draft, let alone the best player...

Psyychoward86
07-20-2009, 01:58 PM
I'm sorry, but at some point, they have to get better. Going 0-16 - can't get any worse.


Except going 0-16: 2 years in a row :couch:

steelreserve
07-20-2009, 03:46 PM
Agreed...they totally wasted the 1st pick...Stafford wasn't even the best QUARTERBACK in this draft, let alone the best player...

In all fairness, though, they were pretty much screwed no matter what they did. I don't think there was any player in the draft this year worth a $10-million-a-year contract, which is what you're basically forced to give out.

Plus, that $10 million price tag eliminates you from taking most positions just because it wouldn't work from a salary cap standpoint. No DB, LB, TE, WR for you; RB is a rarity, DL is kind of a reach, and you might take an OL, but if you're worst in the league, you usually need more help than that. You're basically stuck drafting a QB and hoping he works out, which is a 50-50 roll of the dice. Look how the #1 pick has gone by position before and after they started the salary cap in 1993: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_first_overall_draft_choices

Not saying the Lions made a good pick, but they were just in a terrible position to begin with. That's more the fault of the current system than anything. Why is there no rookie salary cap yet?

revefsreleets
07-20-2009, 04:34 PM
However, picking a mediocre QB compounds their problems. Even if the kid was a sure bet loaded with talent and no question marks at all, he still has a shit team around him. Plus QB is THE marquee position, meaning his contract will be as big and full of guaranteed money as possible.

It was just the worst case scenario and the Lions, as usual, made the worst pick possible with it.

Better to take an OL to build with, pay a LITTLE less money, take their lumps in 2009 (which they will anyway) and select from a MUCH better crop of QB's in next years draft.

steelreserve
07-20-2009, 05:15 PM
However, picking a mediocre QB compounds their problems. Even if the kid was a sure bet loaded with talent and no question marks at all, he still has a shit team around him. Plus QB is THE marquee position, meaning his contract will be as big and full of guaranteed money as possible.

It was just the worst case scenario and the Lions, as usual, made the worst pick possible with it.

Better to take an OL to build with, pay a LITTLE less money, take their lumps in 2009 (which they will anyway) and select from a MUCH better crop of QB's in next years draft.

Yes, they definitely took a bad situation and made it worse with Stafford, that's for sure. Why draft a guy who won't even play, when chances are you'll be able to draft a better QB who can step in immediately next year?

I still think drafting an OL #1 is a bad move, because then you're paying an OL $12 million a year (which is about what Jake Long got). Not even the best All-Pro lineman in the league has a remote shot of making a $12 million impact, and that's going to screw up your salary cap just as badly.

I honestly don't know who I would've taken if I HAD to use that pick. I'd say Crabtree or B.J. Raji were the ones most likely to have that kind of impact in the near future, but either one would be a stretch. Not Stafford, though. There were QBs who went undrafted that I don't really see a huge talent gap with, for chrissakes.

HometownGal
07-20-2009, 05:39 PM
so what you are saying marianne is that the lions can become the dynasty of the future??lol.:chuckle:

i dont see them winning many games, maybe 3 tops. at least they dont have millen making bad decisions anymore. the new coach seems to have the players in control and maybe they get turn their losing attitudes into winning attitudes.

Sure they could - why not? As I pointed out above, the Steelers sucked for quite a while before Chuck Noll turned them around after suffering several really bad seasons. It wasn't until 1972 under Coach Noll that the Steelers finally won a division crown and went on to become one of the greatest NFL franchises in history.

Do I think the Lions are going to turn it around in one season? No, but in today's NFL with all of the player movement due to FA, trades, etc., and the Lions most likely getting high draft picks over the next season or two, nothing is out of the realm of logical thinking and possibility.

TackleMeBen
07-20-2009, 07:26 PM
that is true marianne, but this is the lions. and i mean really, guys dont want to come here and play because they are a good team. if they come here its b/c the fords are making it rain for them..lol.

everyone is really high on the new coach and stafford. i dont see him doing a flacco or ryan. i think they should let culpepper start the season and let stafford learn a little before throwing him out there. he should only be out there if culpepper is hurt.

Psyychoward86
07-20-2009, 07:32 PM
that is true marianne, but this is the lions. and i mean really, guys dont want to come here and play because they are a good team. if they come here its b/c the fords are making it rain for them..lol.

everyone is really high on the new coach and stafford. i dont see him doing a flacco or ryan. i think they should let culpepper start the season and let stafford learn a little before throwing him out there. he should only be out there if culpepper is hurt.

I agree. Let Culpepper fail to epic proportions, then let Stafford take over the next season or so. Win-win situation between the Lions and Stafford. The Lions have their typical subpar year with Culpepper, and Stafford doesnt have such low selfesteem from being thrown into the fire.

TackleMeBen
07-20-2009, 07:47 PM
I agree. Let Culpepper fail to epic proportions, then let Stafford take over the next season or so. Win-win situation between the Lions and Stafford. The Lions have their typical subpar year with Culpepper, and Stafford doesnt have such low selfesteem from being thrown into the fire.
yep. that is what killed joey harrington. he was thrown into the line-up and had an oline that sucked.