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Indo
07-31-2009, 12:03 PM
I just received this email----it is more than a little scary




How would you like any of the following?

· A federal government that tells you what you can and cannot eat. (Page 936)

· A federal government that tells you what you can and cannot DO. (Page 935)

· How about a government committee telling you what medical treatments you can and cannot have? (Page 30)

· Do you really want to have all your medical information on file with the government? How about giving the government access to your checking account and permission to take money from it? (Page 195)

· Do you want some under-educated “health professional” (presumably wearing an ACORN badge) showing up at your front door to administer vaccines to your children? (Page 464)

· Why would you want ACORN and its affiliates to have access to your medical records? (Page 476)

· How would you like to be medically treated by a veterinarian? (No offense to my vet friends – I know you are all capable and smart as any people-doctor – but you can always put an animal down. I’m not good with that option while it’s me under the knife – call me crazy.) That’s on Page 900.

· Anybody up for the government choosing and operating your nursing home? I’ve seen public housing – no thanks. (Pages 525-620)


Does any of this sound like it’s going to make your medical care options any better or less expensive? Well it’s all in the healthcare bill… and so much more. NONE of it good! What follows is a summary of the bill before Congress – all that gobbledygook you hear on TV. The summary was done by one Peter Fleckenstein, a common man with (apparently) an uncommon ability to read through 1,018 pages of amazingly pedantic bromide. This man is a patriot and deserves our thanks for stepping up for America. http://blog.flecksoflife.com/. (The staccato style is a result of his publishing his findings on Twitter. I have tried to clean it up a bit as necessary.)

I have crosschecked a lot of Mr. Fleckstein's summary, and found it to be exactly as advertised. Check it out for yourself, here's a link to the bill: http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf.

When you read the summary, it should send shivers up your spine. For all my physician friends, I highlighted some of the items in blue that should make you squirm. Other items I found to be particularly disturbing, I highlighted in red. Doctors, you will be the very last line of defense in stopping this thing if it passes. All of you should contact your representatives to stop this freedom-killer before it gets to that point. It’s time to stand up for our country, our families, and our freedom.

Note: EVERY member of Congress is voting on this bill, which will affect ALL Americans. That means you are a constituent of EVERY congressman and senator. Make your voice heard by those members who support this bill – even if your local guy/gal is opposing it. They are about to go on recess. Find out where they will be speaking, campaigning, etc. Show up, speak up, be polite, but be heard that you oppose this bill. If they insist on voting for it, let them know you will support their opposition in the next election (you can send checks to any candidate). Their biggest fear is not getting re-elected.

Ask them if they will subject themselves to this plan. Ask them if they read the plan. Ask them if they’ve even read Mr. Fleckenstein’s report. Ask them to explain some of the highlights below.

Keep in mind there will be a day when your grandchildren ask you what you did when America’s freedom was under attack. What are you going to tell them? I make no apologies for doing what I can.

XXXXXXX (name removed)
July 2009


~~~~~~~~~

Indo
07-31-2009, 12:05 PM
Here is the rest of the email:



· PG 16 States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the government option!

· PG 22 MANDATES the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self-insure!!

· PG 24 Line 116 Government effectively sets prices for ALL private health plans.

· PG 30 Line 123 THERE WILL BE A Government COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

· PG 37 Line 132 The Government will be reviewing grievances about themselves and will decide on appeals for rejected claims.

· PG 29 Line 4-16 YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

· PG 42 The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HealthCare Benefits for you. You have no choice!

· PG 50 Line 152 HealthCare will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

· PG 58 Government will have real-time access to individuals’ finances & a National ID HealthCare Card will be issued!

· PG 59 Line 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer!

· PG 61 Line 22-24 Congress has no clue what Electronic Medical Records will cost. Asks for estimate.

· PG 62 Protection of Data, Government shows they will have database of your personal & financial info.

· PG64 L 21-25, pg65 L 1-5 which refers to processing payment transactions by financial institutions

· PG 65 Line 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (ACORN).

· PG 72 Line 8-14 Government is creating a HealthCare Exchange to bring private HealthCare plans under Government control.

· PG 84 Line 203 Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private. HealthCare plans in the Exchange.

· PG 85 Line 7 Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your HealthCare! #AARP members your Health care will be rationed.

· PG 89 Line 6-10 The FAR is not applicable. Government can write contracts any way they want.

· PG 95 Line 8-18 The Gov. will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Government HealthCare plan.

· PG 98 Line 8 Americans - You will be paying for others’ HealthCare while paying for your own.

· PG 100 Line 15-19 The Government will be using ACORN and other community groups to promote & enroll.

· PG 102 Line 12-18 Medicaid Eligible Individual will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

· PG 109 Line 207 Health Trust Fund. The Government will raise taxes on EVERYONE to fund HealthCare as they see fit.

· PG 110 Line 7-12 Employment taxes on ALL employers NOT offering Government HealthCare. No choice.

· PG 110 Line 13-18 An excise tax on ALL goods from companies not offering Government HealthCare. ALL Americans pay.

· PG 110 Line 19-24 the Treasury can take $$ from Soc Line to pay HealthCare.

· PG 111 Line 208 The Federal Government will usurp all State powers in State Based HealthCare Exchange. Violation of 10th Amendment.

· PG 119 Line 1-3 establishes geographically adjusted premium rates for public option Can you say ACORN census?

· PG 121 Line 223 PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES. Can you say Government price fixing & monopoly?

· PG 124 Line 24-25 No company can sue Government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly.

· PG 126 Line 10-15 The Government can make up prices for anything at anytime for any reason.

· PG 126 Line 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HealthCare for part time employees AND their families.

· PG 127 Line 1-16 Doctors: The Government will tell YOU what you can make.

· PG 129 The public option will be subsidized. Credits = your tax dollars. Redistribution of wealth.

· PG 130 Line 10-23 Federal Government will subsidize State Medicaid = Even Higher State & Federal taxes for ALL.

· PG 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.

· PG 149 Line 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll 400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payrolls.

· PG 150 Line 9-13 Biz with payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payrolls.

· PG 151 Line 1-3 Aggregate Rules-tax on employers payroll not on public option include payroll of other biz.

· PG 167 Line 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HealthCare according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of inc.

· PG 170 Line 1-3 Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

· PG 195 officers & employees of HealthCare Administration (Government) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records.

· PG 198 Line 1-3 1.5% ADDITIONAL TAX on people who have income of $500k to $1mil. Redistribution of Wealth.

· PG 198 Line 4-6 5.4% ADDITIONAL TAX on people who have income of $1mil+. Redistribution of Wealth.

· PG 199 Line 1-4 Surtax rates on raised AGAIN on Americans in 2012. They see fit to show savings. (Cooking the books)

· PG 203 Line 14-15 “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.

· PG 202-215 is a Government rewrite of the tax code ensuring more taxes for EVERYONE, Everywhere.

· PG 239 Line 14-24 Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

· PG 241 Line 6-8 Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same.

· PG236 L22-25, 237 L1-3 National rate of uninsured defined by Census. Can you say ACORN corruption?


·

Indo
07-31-2009, 12:13 PM
And it just keeps going and going and...·



· PG236 L22-25, 237 L1-3 National rate of uninsured defined by Census. Can you say ACORN corruption?

· PG 239 Line 10-12 Medicare DSH payments will be increased. Can you say even higher taxes for all?

· PG 238-249 Line 1121 Doctors-Government mandates your growth, costs, value, services, & income. Welcome to rationing

· PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Dr’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally value of humans. We’re next.

· PG 260 Line 1125 Fed Government will adjust Medicare Payment Localities for California based on Census. ACORN?

· PG 265 Line 1131 Government mandates & controls productivity for private HealthCare industries.

· PG 268 Line 1141 Fed Government regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

· PG 270 Line 1144 Government Mandates that all private ambulatory surgical centers submit cost data & other data.

· PG 272 Line 1145 TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!
PG 276 Line 3-20 Oxygen Equipment & Supply Companies - Government MANDATES you will provide supplies NO MATTER where individual is.

· PG 287 Line 14-25 PROOF that Government will ration HealthCare by mandating waiting periods for readmission.

· PG 298 Line 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission - Government will penalize you.

· PG 303 Line 12-25 Post Acute Care Services Data – Government will collect data including personal information as they see fit.

· PG 304 Line 17-19 BIG ONE HERE: Expedited Data Collection – Government does NOT have to protect your private information, share with anyone, & is not responsible. Expedited Data Collection - Chapter 35, Section 3501 of Title 44 of U.S. Code SHALL NOT APPLY. Folks this gives the government the right to access your data any way they see fit. Here is link to the chapter: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode44/usc_sec_44_00003501----000-.html Look at number 8 THE GOVT IS SAYING THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO DO THIS!!! (8) Ensure that the creation, collection, maintenance, use, dissemination, and disposition of information by or for the Federal Government is consistent with applicable laws, including laws relating to— (A) privacy and confidentiality, including section 552a of title 5; (B) security of information, including section 11332 of title 40 [1]; and (C) access to information, including section 552 of title 5.

· PG 306 Line 3-6 The Government can expand the scope & size of Post Acute Program Services anytime & as they see fit.

· PG 313 Line 9-14 Government MANDATES Health Services providers will state ownership, investment, & compensation arrangements.

· PG 317 Line 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

· PG 317-318 L 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Government is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

· PG 318-319 Government is mandating how hospitals & physicians conduct business & investments. We’re next!

· PG 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

· PG 328 Line 1157 Government study disguised. It’s a HealthCare workforce study mandated by law for unionization.

· Pg335 L16-25, PG 336-339 Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures. HealthCare the way they want. Rationing.

· PG 341 Line 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing into Government plan.

· PG 354 Line 1177 Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!

· PG 355-369 Line 1181 Government disguises tax on Drug Companies as rebate to Government to subsidize Drugs. We pay in the end.

· PG 379 Line 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy – Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say HealthCare by phone?

· PG 399 if you’re a subsidy eligible individual under Medicare part D and you don’t enroll, the Government will auto enroll you.

· PG 401 Section 1221 Americans will fund Medicare Language & Translation Services Program. Can you say MORE taxes?

· PG 404 Lines 12-16 Government exempts itself again from - Chap 35 of title 44, USC including privacy of Americans.

· PG 404 Lines 17-19 Government doesn’t know the cost of Language services but states that money is there.

· PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life.

· PG 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

· PG425 L22-25, 426 L1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

· PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.

· PG 429 Lines 1-9 an “advance care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patient’s health deteriorates.

· PG 429 Lines 10-12 “advance care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from Government.

· PG 429 Lines 13-25 The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. Logan’s Run anyone?

· PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

· PG 432 Lines 18-21 The Government will publish “quality measures” for individual’s end of life in Federal Register.

· PG 434 Section 1234 Military Active, Reservists, Families - If you’re not enrolled in Tricare it is mandated.

· PG 434 Section 1234 Military Active, Reservists, Families - Once HealthCare bill is passed your premiums will go up.

· PG 438 Section 1236 The Government will develop a patient decision-making aid program that you & Dr. WILL use.

· PG 443 Lines 7-24 Government at taxpayers expense test out an “Accountable Care Org” program (Government doesn’t have plan.)

· PG 444 Lines 1-6 Government’s Accountable Care Program will mandate services & infrastructure thru reward/penalty system.

· PG 448 Lines 4-17 Government will set performance targets for ALL Accountable Care Organizations including private.

· PG 455 Lines 3-4 Government exempts itself from Chapter 35, Title 44 Paperwork Reduction & Citizens Privacy Protection Act

· PG 460 Section 1302 Knock Knock - It’s the Government and I’m here with the Medical Home Program - YOUR home.

· PG 460 Section 1302 The Government WILL provide medical services in your home. Paging Nurse Pelosi!!

· PG 464 Lines 17-22 Independent Patient Center Home Medical Services - Drs. don’t have to be at your home just someone directed by Dr.

· PG 469 Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

· PG 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED Organization - 1 monthly payment to a community-based organization Like ACORN?

· PG 476 19-20 Chapter 35/ title 44, (Privacy of personal records) shall not apply Home Medical Services. ACORN ACCESS

· PG 489 Section 1308 Government will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert government into your marriage.

· PG 494-498 Government will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.

· PG 502 Section 1181 Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research Established. - Hello Big Brother - Literally.

· PG 502 Line 5-18 Government builds the “Center” to conduct, support, & synthesize research to define our HealthCare Services.

· PG 503 Line 13-19 Government will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic medical records.

· PG 503 Line 21-25 Government may secure data directly from any department or agency of the US including your data.

· PG 504 Line 6-10 The “Center” will collect data both published & unpublished (that means public & your private info)

· PG 506 Line 19-21 The Center will recommend policies that would allow for public access of data

· PG 518 Line 21-25 The Commission will have input from HealthCare consumer reps - Can you say unions & ACORN?

· PG 524 18-22 Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund set up. More taxes for ALL.

· PGs 525-620 deals with the Government t basically taking over nursing homes, long-term care facilities (think assisted living) through regulations of the facilities, the owners of said facilities, the employees of said facilities and even the owners of the land said facilities reside on. Additionally as you read these 90+ pages you can come to the conclusion that any Health related services will be determined and rationed by the Government t for our senior citizens and others in nursing homes. This one post should do enough to raise awareness of the control the Government t is exerting over the older population of American citizens.

· PG 620 Line 1-9 The Government will define, prioritize, and nationalize your Health Care Services.

· PG 621 Lines 20-25 Government will define what Quality means in HealthCare. Since when does Government know about quality?

· PG 622 Lines 2-9 To pay for the quality Standards Government will transfer $$ from to other Government Trust Funds. More Taxes.

·

Indo
07-31-2009, 12:14 PM
and going....



· PG 724 Lines 16-22 Government reserves right to apply face-to-face certification for patient to ANY other HealthCare service.

· PG 724 23-25 PG 725 1-5 The same Government certifications will apply to Medicaid & CHIP (your kids)

· PG 735 lines 16-25 For law enforcement purposes, the Secretary of Health & Human Services will give Attorney General access to ALL data.

· PG 740-757 Government sets guidelines for subsidizing the uninsured (That’s your tax dollars people)

· PG 757-762 Fed Government will shift burden of payments to Disproportionate Share Hospitals (DSH) to States. (Taxes)

· PG 763 1-8 No DS/EA hospitals will be paid unless they provide services without regard to national origin

· PG 765 Section 1711 Government will require Preventative Services including vaccines. (Choice?)

· Pg 768 Section 1713 Government - Nurse Home Visitation Services (Hello union paybacks)

· Pg 769 3-5 Nurse Home Visit Services - “increasing birth intervals between pregnancies.” Government ABORTIONS anyone?

· Pg 769 11-14 Nurse Home Visit Services include-economic self-sufficiency, employment advancement, school-readiness

· Pg 770 SEC 1714 Federal Government mandates eligibility for State Family Planning Services. Say abortion & State Sovereign.

· Pg 789-797 Government will set & mandate drug prices, controlling which drugs will be brought to market. Bye innovation

· Pgs 797-800 SEC. 1744 PAYMENTS for grad medical education. The government will now control Drs education.

· PG 801 Sec 1751 The Government will decide which Health care conditions will be paid. Say RATION!

· Pg 810 SEC. 1759. Billing Agents, clearinghouses, etc. required to register. Government takes over private payment system.

· Page 820-824 Sec 1801 Government will identify individuals ineligible for subsidies. Will access all personal finances.

· Pg 824-829 SEC. 1802. Government Sets up Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund. Another tax black hole.

· PG 829-833 Government will impose a fee on ALL private health insurance plans including self-insured to pay for Trust Fund!

· PG 835 11-13 fees imposed by Government for Trust Fund shall be treated as if they were taxes.

· Pg 838-840 Government will design & implement Home Visitation Program for families with young kids & families expecting kids.

· PG 844-845 This Home Visitation Program includes Government coming into your house & telling you how to parent!!!

· Pg 859 Government will establish a Public Health Fund at a cost of $88,800,000,000. Yes that’s Billion.

· PG 865 to 876 The NHS Corps is a program where Drs. perform mandatory HealthCare for 2 years for part loan repayment.

· PG 876-892 The Government takes over the education of our Medical students and Drs.

· PG 898 The Government will establish a Public Health Workforce Corps to ensure supply of public health professionals.

· PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of officers of Regular & Reserve Corps of Service.

· PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of civilian employees of the U.S. as Secretary deems.

· PG 900 The Public Health Workforce Corps includes veterinarians.

· PG 901 The Public Health Workforce Corps WILL include commissioned Regular & Reserve Officers. HealthCare Draft?

· PG 910 The Government will develop, build & run Public Health Training Centers.

· PG 913-914 Government starts a HealthCare affirmative action program thru guise of diversity scholarships.

· PG 915 SEC. 2251. Government MANDATES Cultural & linguistic competency training for HealthCare professionals.

· Pg 932 The Government will establish Preventative & Wellness Trust fund - initial cost of $30,800,000,000-Billion.

· PG 935 21-22 Government will identify specific goals & objectives for prevention & wellness activities. Control You!!

· PG 936 Government will develop “Healthy People & National Public Health Performance Standards” Tell me what to eat?

· PG 942 Lines 22-25 More Government? Offices of Surgeon General -Public Health Services, Minority Health, Women’s Health

· PG 950- 980 BIG Government core public health infrastructure includes workforce capacity, lab systems; health information systems, etc

· PG 993 Government will establish school-based health clinics. Your kids wont have a chance.

· PG 994 School Based Health Clinic will be integrated into the school environment. Say Government Brainwash!

· PG 1001 The Government will establish a National Medical Device Registry. Will you be tracked?

· PG 1003 9-11 National Medical Device Registry ‘‘(iii) other post-market device surveillance activities” you WILL be tracked.

· PG 1018 States give up some of their State Sovereignty.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

St33lersguy
07-31-2009, 02:38 PM
I can't believe this is happening in america

revefsreleets
07-31-2009, 02:53 PM
It's not...that's why the August "deadline" Obama set has already been pushed back. No Congressman or Senator is going to vote on this until they understand it...it's political hari-kari. It's a bad bill, it's not ready, nobody wants it and it's going nowhere in it's present state.

The Democrats have been pushing for socialized healthcare since the 20's...they can wait a few more months.

J Dogg
08-02-2009, 08:58 AM
Write/call/e-mail your Senators and your Congressman.

Bob Casey

Bob Casey (http://casey.senate.gov/)

Arlen Specter

Arlen Specter (http://specter.senate.gov/public/)

Write your Rep.

Write Your Rep (https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml)

Remember folks, they work for us.

revefsreleets
08-02-2009, 10:56 AM
Remember what Obama said: "Please don't write your congressperson or Senator...you are slowing the process down" In other words, we don't want or need, nor do we care to hear, your input, You, the people....

J Dogg
08-02-2009, 11:00 AM
I don't recall that.

But, if he did say it he should have been slammed by every talking head in the country. That includes Olbermann, Matthews, and Maddow.

revefsreleets
08-02-2009, 11:17 AM
He said that when he was in Shaker Heights last week...I honestly don't know why it hasn't been picked up.

J Dogg
08-02-2009, 12:06 PM
Whatever.....I can't really say what I want to say because of the UCMJ.

SteelersinCA
08-02-2009, 12:41 PM
Whatever.....I can't really say what I want to say because of the UCMJ.

You are allowed to be politically active according to the UCMJ.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf

4.1.1.6. Write a letter to the editor of a newspaper expressing the member’s personal views on public issues or political candidates, if such action is not part of an organized letter-writing campaign or a solicitation of votes for or against a political party or partisan political cause or candidate. If the letter identifies the member as on active duty (or if the member is otherwise reasonably identifiable as a member of the Armed Forces), the letter should clearly state that the views expressed are those of the individual only and not those of the Department of Defense (or Department of Homeland Security for members of the Coast Guard).

You're OK, the other provisions about talking about the President only apply if you are an officer and only if you intend to cause disloyalty to the United States or the armed services.

J Dogg
08-02-2009, 12:49 PM
I cannot be critical of the Commander in Chief in a public forum. A message board is a public forum. I can be critical of policy or proposals, but even that's kind of a grey area.

Godfather
08-02-2009, 02:37 PM
I cannot be critical of the Commander in Chief in a public forum. A message board is a public forum. I can be critical of policy or proposals, but even that's kind of a grey area.

Not sure you have anything to worry about here. The specifics are the work of Congress. Obama hasn't taken a strong position on what he wants the final product to be.

HometownGal
08-02-2009, 03:21 PM
No way on God's green earth does this bill pass. The Demos/Libs want to remain in control in the Senate and House come 2010, and during their recess, they are surely going to get an earful from their constituents over this proposed bill and give it the kibosh when it's time to vote.

Control, control, control - the Democratic mantra. :rolleyes: :jerkit:

Of note:

PG 50 Line 152 HealthCare will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

PG 170 Line 1-3 Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

This pisses me the hell off. :mad: So - not only are we expected to pay for the lowlifes out there who live off of our tax dollars and refuse to gain meaningful employment - but we're expected to provide health insurance for every illegal Shakibble out there? :jawdrop:

PG 203 Line 14-15 “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.

Joe wrote that during his most recent bender. :alcoholic:


PG 239 Line 14-24 Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life

This is absolutely deplorable. :shake02: In that age group are veterans who have fought and served in WWII, The Korean War and in Vietnam. So let me get this straight - let's just off 'em and all of those over the age of 65 years so the government can save all of that money that these vets and seniors rightfully earned during their lifetime??? :jawdrop: :mad:


PG 801 Sec 1751 The Government will decide which Health care conditions will be paid. Say RATION!

Unless, of course, it's one of their loved ones. :upyours:


PG 876-892 The Government takes over the education of our Medical students and Drs.

And watch the decline in the number and quality of physicians, which will ultimately affect all of us or those we love. :shake01:

MACH1
08-02-2009, 03:24 PM
The Demos/Libs want to remain in control in the Senate and House come 2010,

I think they're in for a rude awakening regardless.

HometownGal
08-02-2009, 03:26 PM
I think they're in for a rude awakening regardless.

:hope: :hope: :hope:

MACH1
08-03-2009, 12:30 AM
Here's a link that you can get your state rep's and senators websites, contact information,e-mail and so on. Makes it easy to write them and let them know how you feel!

http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/

7SteelGal43
08-03-2009, 02:21 AM
We'll see. We all know they don't read shit before they vote on it.


But, with this particular bill, Americans are paying attention. Americans know it isn't being read. Americans are pissed. Real pissed. If it passes without being read, Americans are going to be sending congressmen home real fast and Obama will soon be movin back to "SWEET HOME CHICAGO" :chuckle:

7SteelGal43
08-03-2009, 02:23 AM
Remember what Obama said: "Please don't write your congressperson or Senator...you are slowing the process down" In other words, we don't want or need, nor do we care to hear, your input, You, the people....

O M G !!!! :banging:

Is that the new way to say "we're from the govt. we're here to help you" ??

7SteelGal43
08-03-2009, 02:32 AM
I think they're in for a rude awakening regardless.

You can say that again Mach. They done stepped in it this time :poop:

revefsreleets
08-03-2009, 08:12 AM
Some of this is hyperbole, and there are a lot of distortions. I found this AP article seems to clear some of the smoke.

http://www.ohio.com/news/nation/52334157.html

Debate distorts medical overhaul

Some claims being made about health-care plans have little basis in fact

By Charles Babington
Associated Press

Published on Monday, Aug 03, 2009

WASHINGTON: Confusing claims and outright distortions have animated the national debate over changes in the health-care system.

Opponents of proposals by President Barack Obama and congressional Democrats falsely claim that government agents will force elderly people to discuss end-of-life wishes. Obama, meanwhile, has played down the possibility that a health-care overhaul would cause large numbers of people to change doctors and insurers.

To complicate matters, there is no clear-cut ''Obama plan'' or ''Democratic plan.'' Obama has listed several goals, but he has drawn few lines in the sand.

The Senate is considering two bills that differ significantly. The House is waiting for yet another bill approved in committee.

Here is a look at some claims being made about health-care proposals:

Claim: The House bill ''may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia,'' House Republican Leader John Boehner of West Chester said July 23.

Former New York Lt. Gov. Betsy McCaughey said in a July 17 article: ''One troubling provision of the House bill compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years . . . about alternatives for


end-of-life care.''

The facts: The bill would require Medicare to pay for ''advance-directive'' consultations with health-care professionals. But it would not require anyone to use the benefit.

Advance directives lay out a patient's wishes for life-extending measures under various scenarios involving terminal illness, severe brain damage and other situations. Patients and their families would consult with health professionals, not government agents, if they used the proposed benefit.

Claim: Health-care revisions would lead to government-funded abortions.

Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council says in a video, ''Unless Congress states otherwise, under a government takeover of health care, taxpayers will be forced to fund abortions for the first time in over three decades.''

The facts: The proposed bills would not undo the Hyde Amendment, which bars paying for abortions through Medicaid, the government insurance program for the poor. But a health-care overhaul could create a government-run insurance program, or insurance ''exchanges,'' that would not involve Medicaid and whose abortion guidelines are not yet clear.

Obama recently told CBS that the nation should continue a tradition of ''not financing abortions as part of government-funded health care.''

The House Energy and Commerce Committee amended the House bill Thursday to state that health insurance plans have the option of covering abortion, but no public money can be used to fund abortions. The bill says health plans in a new purchasing exchange would not be required to cover abortion but that each region of the country should have at least one plan that does.

Congressional action this fall will determine whether such language is in the final bill.

Claim: Americans won't have to change doctors or insurance companies.

''If you like your plan and you like your doctor, you won't have to do a thing,'' Obama said on June 23. ''You keep your plan; you keep your doctor.''

The facts: The proposed legislation would not require people to drop their doctor or insurer. But some tax provisions, depending on how they are written, might make it cheaper for some employers to pay a fee to end their health coverage. Their workers presumably would move to a public insurance plan that might not include their current doctors.

Claim: The Democrats' plans will lead to rationing, or the government determining which medical procedures a patient can have.

''Expanding government health programs will hasten the day that government rations medical care to seniors,'' conservative writer Michael Cannon said in the Washington Times.

The facts: Millions of Americans already face rationing, as insurance companies rule on procedures they will cover.

Denying coverage for certain procedures might increase under proposals to have a government-appointed agency identify medicines and procedures best suited for various conditions.

Obama says the goal is to identify the most effective and efficient medical practices, and to steer patients and providers to them. He recently told a forum: ''We don't want to ration by dictating to somebody, . . . 'We don't think that this senior should get a hip replacement.' What we do want to be able to do is to provide information to that senior and to her doctor about, you know, this is the thing that is going to be most helpful to you in dealing with your condition.''

Claim: Overhauling health care will not expand the federal deficit over the long term.

Obama has pledged that ''health insurance reform will not add to our deficit over the next decade, and I mean it.''

The facts: Obama's pledge does not apply to proposed spending of about $245 billion over the next decade to increase Medicare fees for doctors. The White House says the extra payment, designed to prevent a scheduled cut of about 21 percent in doctor fees, already was part of the administration's policy.

Beyond that, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said the House bill lacks mechanisms to bring costs under control. In response, the White House and Democratic lawmakers are talking about creating a powerful new board to root out waste in government health programs. But it's unclear how that would work.

Budget experts also warn of accounting gimmicks that can mask true burdens on the deficit. The bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget says they include back-loading the heaviest costs at the end of the 10-year period and beyond.

revefsreleets
08-03-2009, 08:18 AM
Also, since I hate it when people only bash and never offer solutions, I wanted top post up this alternative plan presented by, of all the odd couples, Tom Daschle and Bob Dole. For some reason it's getting zero press...it has some merit, and it sounds infinitely more plausible and workable than the Barry/Pelosi plan:

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/06/to_pay_for_their_health.php

The Daschle-Dole Health Care "Compromise"

Today, former Senate Majority Leaders Tom Daschle and Bob Dole unveil a bipartisan health care reform plan that they're billing as a "compromise" between GOP and Democratic health care principles.

The root of the plan is a reformulation of the incentives that guide our health care system. The delivery of health care would be tied closely to pay-for-performance initiatives; payments for low-value services would be reduced. Community-based "chronic health teams" would be dispatched to at-risk areas to provide care for those with chronic care. Over time, these delivery reforms -- so far unspecified -- would be integrated into medical education for health professionals. The leaders say they'd realign reimbursement in federal programs to patient outcomes over time.

There'd be an individual coverage mandate; insurance companies would be required to cover everyone and there would be limited variation of premiums, although patients would be able to alter their premiums in exchange for "healthy behavior," like losing weight. There'd be lots of tax credits for employers and municipalities who implemented wellness programs that worked.

There's no "public plan" per se, but there'd be a "federal fall back" if the insurance companies didn't or couldn't implement cost-cutting and efficiency measures on their own.

An accompanying television ad urges partisans to "cross the line." To pay for their health reform proposal, the leaders (capitalized in a preview document as the Leaders, which makes me think of North Korea for some reason) propose $1 trillion in specific savings and then give Congress a choice of either designing a budget trigger to automatically implement cuts if needed or, revenue enhancements.

Premiums would be limited to not more than 15% of out of pocket expenditures and those earning up to 400% of the poverty level would be eligible for subsidies.

An independent Health Care Council would promote coordination among federal health programs, issue cost-cutting recommendations to Congress, and reform medical liability laws. (They sort of punt on the specifics of this last piece.)

It may be too late to effect the debate in Congress, but the Leaders, along with funding provided by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, plan to run television advertisements in support of the idea of Democrats and Republicans working together.

J Dogg
08-03-2009, 08:23 AM
I've read some big pieces of Daschle/Dole, and it's pretty interesting. But this is being driven by 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The Administration NEEDS this legislation to justify their election and give embattled congressman ammunition in their 2010 elections. Adopting even part of the Daschle/Dole plan sends a clear signal that Congress and the President aren't in as strong a position as we thought they were.

revefsreleets
08-03-2009, 08:48 AM
Oh, it's Obama's Everest...and he MUST climb it or fail. He made it his signature piece, his legacy is 100% pinned to it (after he failed miserably to do anything remotely approaching his promise to immediately end the War in Iraq).

I'll give him credit for such an ambitious raison d'etre, but also fault him for trying to rush through a half-assed, silly incomplete bill that will do nothing more than make an already bad situation worse.

J Dogg
08-03-2009, 08:52 AM
Whoever said this is his Waterloo is right.

7SteelGal43
08-03-2009, 01:51 PM
Hey Indo, any chance we can get a closer look at this, like all of pages 410-414 ? I heard something about guides for "measuring gender" whatever the hell that means. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help

stlrtruck
08-03-2009, 02:12 PM
Hey Indo, any chance we can get a closer look at this, like all of pages 410-414 ? I heard something about guides for "measuring gender" whatever the hell that means. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help

It means they are going to inspect your genatalia and if you aren't using them in a regular manner or have diseased ones, they are going to remove them and either give them to a younger person to utilize in a more functional manner or put them in the incinerator.

Therefore, all the newly created eunichs will be just what Obama ordered to be "workers" at the White House as he makes himself Ceasar!

7SteelGal43
08-03-2009, 03:31 PM
It means they are going to inspect your genatalia and if you aren't using them in a regular manner or have diseased ones, they are going to remove them and either give them to a younger person to utilize in a more functional manner or put them in the incinerator.

Therefore, all the newly created eunichs will be just what Obama ordered to be "workers" at the White House as he makes himself Ceasar!

ok :toofunny: lemme finish laughing at that...a much needed respite amid this very serious subject. Actually, what I was hearing sounded like it was in reference to "gender classification" beyond that of male and female. Thats why I was hoping to find some info that would clarify it.

Indo
08-03-2009, 05:56 PM
Hey Indo, any chance we can get a closer look at this, like all of pages 410-414 ? I heard something about guides for "measuring gender" whatever the hell that means. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help

Here is the ENTIRE document as originally proposed:


http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

SteelTalons
08-03-2009, 10:00 PM
How would you like any of the following?

· A federal government that tells you what you can and cannot eat. (Page 936)

Okay, I cut through a lot of the stuff... Lets just glance at this one EMAIL has told you about. I'm going to read through it tomorrow and see what this is all about. But lets just start with this one shall we?

"A federal government that tells you what you can and cannot eat."


-Taken from page 935 and 936-
"(1) Identification of specific national goals and objectives in prevention of wellness that take into account appropriate public health measures and standards, including departmental measures and standards (including Healthy and National Public Health Performance Standards)

(2) Establishment of national priorities prevention and wellness, taking into account unmet prevention and wellness needs.

(3) Establishment of national priorities for research on prevention and wellness, taking into account unanswered questions on prevention and wellness.

(4) Identification of health disparities in prevention and wellness.

(5) A plan for addressing and implementing paragraphs (1) through (4)."

Where does one get "the government tell you what to eat!" out of this from, ever heard of a suggestion people? The way I see this is sort of like what they do in the UK, they are trying to set up goals. And to get the doctors to try and get people to stop eating garbage or smoking. Notice I said try? Or to suggest it. And of course Im sure there will be an incentive for the doctors in doing so. Of course offering ways to prevent illness in many other ways also. For example... Cancer preventive drugs. I mean healthcare encompasses a large number of ways you can go about this.

And when it comes to "health disparities", look no further than "population-specific differences in the presence of disease, health outcomes, or access to health care." as it is already defined by the government. So in essence, this is just a balancing act to address any lack of essential care.

J Dogg
08-06-2009, 08:18 AM
Fat people tax.....smoking tax.....soda tax.

All things being discussed by pols right now. They won't tell you what to eat, they'll just tax the shit out of you when you don't conform. They call that Democracy in Action in the Democratic Party.