PDA

View Full Version : WWSFD?


HometownGal
08-04-2009, 09:14 AM
I once again come to my Steelers family in the hopes that you can offer some advice that I can pass on to a close friend of mine whose daughter is the subject of this request.

Mandy is in her late 20's and has a son from a prior relationship. She married a man several months ago that she had been dating for almost 2 years and she gave birth to their child a few months back. From almost the get-go, this man has been verbally abusive not only towards her, but to her son. Mandy is a beautiful, intelligent young woman with a zest for life and normally, a good head on her shoulders. This man lived with his mother and stepfather until he and Mandy became serious, and he was raised by a very controlling and manipulative mother. His father and stepmother live on the east coast and he has recently renewed his relationship with them. From what I understand, they are extremely fond of Mandy and the boys. He no longer has a relationship with his mother and stepfather who live here in the area because the woman is a nutcase. Before they were married, Ron became very angry with Mandy's son to the point of rage which resulted in him throwing a metal object at the child, hitting him in the arm and leaving a very large, ugly bruise. My friend confronted Ron that night after her grandson told her what happened and he claimed that the object slipped out of his hand as he was moving his arms when he was screaming at the child. Of course she didn't believe him but because Mandy loves this guy for whatever reason and pleaded with her not to press the issue, she didn't but vowed to keep her eye on the situation.

The next morning, Jack went to school and as his arm was really bothering him, his teacher noticed him rubbing his arm several times and took him aside to inquire. Jack told her what had happened and the teacher immediately sent him down to the school nurse who was horrified and immediately notified the Vice Principal who alerted Children & Youth Services, who promptly contacted Mandy. They came out to the house to talk to Jack with both Mandy and Ron present and as Ron was very convincing that the incident was an "accident" (much to Jack's protests to the CYS caseworker), the incident was put on the back burner. Several weeks later, the local police contacted Mandy and told her that CYS had decided to pursue the issue and Ron was charged with "simple assault". He had a hearing last month and was ordered to attend 16 anger management classes, which he feels are "stupid".

The heated arguments have been continuing on a regular basis and there have been several times where Ron has left for the entire night and supposedly goes to his fire hall which is quite a distance away from where they live. Last week, he screamed at both Mandy and Jack that they are "lazy, worthless F'ers". No matter what he does, Mandy takes him back after they have "a talk". Last night, Mandy told my friend that she and Ron had yet another huge fight (which Ron again started) and they went outside on their back deck. Ron became so enraged that he knocked Mandy's glass of milk against the wall and told her that the next time, it would be her face against the wall. Jack is bipolar and has had a really hard time adjusting to life with Ron. He has told his Mom that he doesn't want him in his life but it falls on deaf ears. My friend had been babysitting last night and when Mandy and Ron got home from their fire hall meeting, she could tell they had been fighting . . again. Mandy took her on the deck and told her that she and Ron fought the entire time they were gone and that he continued to put her down. My friend again reiterated to Mandy that she fears for her and the boys and Mandy told her that Ron "doesn't have the balls" to hit her. I just talked to my friend a little while ago and all is well once again. :rolleyes:

My friend is beside herself with concern and though she has told Mandy many times that she needs to get away from this guy before something really bad happens, Mandy always makes excuses for his behaviors and takes him back - only for the same thing to happen a day or two later. This guy does not help with his infant son at all and chastizes Mandy for just about everything she does. She isn't permitted to have friends, he doesn't want her working, he won't put her name on his accounts (though she has contributed greatly to the household income) - he wants total control of her and everything she does. Legally, there isn't a damned thing my friend can do as Mandy is well over the age of majority.

I would appreciate any and all advice as to your thoughts in this matter. Thank you all in advance.

trauben
08-04-2009, 09:37 AM
HTG...............

Get literature on domestic abuse for her, and passive/aggessive manipulative behaviors.

If you or your friend know someone who's been in this situation, or a counselor who works it, get them to talk to her. You should at least try that!

This man is in his beginning stages of isolating her for total dominance and control. Once isolated she will be absolutely manipulated and a cycle will begin that seldom resolves itself.

Your friend must take some sort of action now, despite Mandy's objections. An intervention with people who can show the signs to her more clearly is in order. It might even take an ambush like with those who do the drug/alcohol interventions........... but this kind of a dominant personality tends to verbally and physically berate and abuse women (especially since he has that history of the mother who will be his mental target on any woman in his life).

I do have experience in counseling victims on this.

I've sent you a PM.

Don't delay for this young woman's sake.

I'll keep her and her mother in my prayers!

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-04-2009, 09:53 AM
Wow....

I have to tell you that Mandy needs to take action NOW. This guys 1) denial of wrongdoing by blaming others...3) poo-pooing the anger management classes...3) and most importantly, his trivializing his abuse towards a child is ALARMING.

It might be hard to believe...but he probably has a "side" that he shows 90% of the time to his friends and family that might make him seem like a nice..even redeemable person. Thats the side that Mandy sees and "choices" to believe is the "real" man she loves.

The truth is...the angry man that comes out of him is part and parcel of the whole man. They are not seperateable. Until he comes to a serious self realization of who he is and is willing to take accountability for his abusive nature, he is a danger to Mandy and the child....period.

Mandy needs to wake this guy up..now!!! Only two things are going to make him accountable.

1) She needs to set up a plan for him to get help...and LEAVE until he fulfills ALL reguirements

2) She needs to bring someone into the picture who can face dwon this idiot and make him accountable. This has to be one of two people...someone he trusts and admires (pastor...priest...mentor) or someone that he fears..(her big brother...a family friend) who can sit down with him and say..."I am going to be asking her on a regualr basis how you are treating her...and I am going to talk with you afterwards".

My experience is that accountability is MUCH more effective than anything else. Until he is held accountable and sees his abuse from the eyes of someone else, he WILL NOT STOP!!! IT WILL GET WORSE!!!

I will promise you that we here in the forum will pray for your friend and her child...and pray for her husband that he might be wise enough to seek help!!!

stlrtruck
08-04-2009, 10:04 AM
I remember hearing/reading somewhere that the victims tend to stay in those relationships out of fear for themselves and their loved ones (in this case Jack).

Fear is not of God. She needs to come against it. I don't know if she's a Godly woman but this is what fear equals:

F = False
E = Evidence
A = Appearing
R = Real

Let's face it, this Ron character seems to have the mental capacity that he could come after them if they leave. She'd have no problem having a case against him and gaining custody of their child and in turn protecting both Jack and the little one.

She may need to take a "vacation" to get away from the situation in order to see it for what it is. She needs to get out.

I will put them in my prayers!

revefsreleets
08-04-2009, 10:30 AM
The bottom line is this: These things always end up with one person leaving, or someone getting seriously hurt and/or killed. So she either needs to leave him, or she will either end up getting hurt or hurting him (in self defense) or worse...

SteelTalons
08-04-2009, 10:32 AM
She needs to leave him. NOW! There is no reasoning with or talking to a crazy bastard.

The only thing she is going to do is make her son hate her also, for being so stupid for taking him back and thus putting both Mandy and Jack through more nonsense from this worthless asshole, just like my father is about my grandma taking my grandpa back.

This bum is not worth being in ether of their lives. He needs to crawl back under his rock and she'd be foolish not to send him packing now. :banging:

Not to mention the mental abuse they have already suffered and now the physical abuse that is starting to occur. She needs to leave, she needs to get rid of that nonsense of loving someone who doesn't treat her or her son well.

And she needs to do it now.

Indo
08-04-2009, 10:36 AM
This is a VERY bad situation. And it WILL get worse. He does "have the balls" to hurt her, and he eventually will hurt her. He will also hurt Jack eventually, but will claim that it was an accident...
My advice is harsh, but probably the only solution---tell her to get as far away from him as possible.
Of course that is easier said than done because she "loves" him... it is pretty classic---I'm guessing that she has self-esteem issues and feels that she "will never find anyone else..."

I'm a surgeon, not a counselor. But she needs one. Now.
Tell her that she needs to start preparing for this...open her own bank account, etc to be able to make the break
But before any of that can happen she needs to Understand that there IS a problem and that it is NOT going to go away

vasteeler
08-04-2009, 11:40 AM
lousiville slugger and aim for the cheap seats

SteelMember
08-04-2009, 11:54 AM
HTG, that story is very disconcerting, and although I know you have a personal connection, it's seems like a common tale of abuse and dominant behavior.

The wife knows there is a problem, but out of fear or the deep love she feels (maybe being alone), she is unable to accept the problem (denial) for what it really is and hopes things will just work itself out...which it won't. Consistently forgiving him, is imo almost enabling his behavior. As said before, there are no consequences for him, so he will just keep repeating the same pattern of abuse.

It all starts with him really. She and/or child services can force him into counciling, but if he isn't willing to admit he has a problem, all the treatment and anger management classes he takes won't make one bit of a difference. He will just be meeting a requirement.

At the very least she could say she tried, and he was not willing to change (recognize his issues), but I think it will take someone she respects to convince her to do something...anything at this point to confront him because it can only get uglier if nothing happens.

X-Terminator
08-04-2009, 12:45 PM
You and I have already discussed this at length, so you know where I stand. Most everyone here has the same sentiment that I do - she needs to dump the bastard, take her kid and get as far away from him as she can. As much as she wants it to, the situation will NOT get any better. It will continue to get worse until something very, very bad happens to her and/or her son, so long as she keeps enabling him. If she won't leave him for herself, she needs to do it for Jack, because so long as she keeps enabling his behavior by constantly taking him back, he is going to harbor more and more resentment toward her as he gets older, and their relationship could be irreparably damaged...not to mention that his school performance could be negatively affected. Does she really want to risk that just to stay married? I have seen this fish before with a member of my own family who had been abusive - both verbally and physically - to every woman he'd been with until recently. Those women ended up leaving him before long, and they were better off for it. Mandy needs to do the same.

steelreserve
08-04-2009, 12:56 PM
Obviously, everyone is going to say OMG, get out of there, why is she letting that guy get away with it. That's probably great for the short term, but I'd be surprised if a year or two later, she's not in a brand-new lousy relationship just like this one. When people keep having kids when they shouldn't, it tends to indicate poor judgment, and I've almost universally seen those women choose to date douchebag after douchebag and let each one walk all over them.

If she had her first kid at a young age like 21 or 22, combined with her present situation, that usually indicates having a lot of losers among your friends and family growing up. Since it's what you've come to expect, that's the kind of person you continue to associate with. And if you're getting most of your boyfriends from a pool of people who dropped out of high school, developed a nice coke habit, had a kid too young and broke up with the baby-momma a year later ... well, you can expect this situation to keep repeating itself over and over.

One would hope she can take this experience and learn from it, but I don't have particularly high hopes for her. And yeah -- if you have two young kids with two different guys, neither of whom you're still with, that IS going to create problems for you having a normal life or a normal relationship down the road. So at least she's right about that part.

Steel5586
08-04-2009, 01:10 PM
Sounds like Mandy needs to have an intervention from family and friends. Her husband is clearly an abusive and controlling piece of sh*t! Unfortunately, she seems to be one ofthose women who just can't walk away. The best thing your friend can do is be aware of what is going on as much as she can, be a friend and watch out for the her best interests and the children's. Sad story.......I hate to hear things like that. The guy needs his a$$ kicked!

Dino 6 Rings
08-04-2009, 01:27 PM
Mandy needs to get out and go back to her parents for protection if possible. She needs to file a restraining order on Rod and press criminal charges of abuse against him.

If she does not do that, then the "Friend" who is concerned needs to call DYFUS (or whatever it is called) to come take her kids away. It would be in their best interest, for their own safety to be out of that situation, even if it means being ripped out of Mandy's arm by force.

This guy IS going to Kill Someone, if not all of them in a fit of rage. Its not a matter of IF it is a matter of WHEN. He displays all the classic examples of an abusive man that turns deadly.

I would also suggest that every single person that Knows Mandy is made aware of the situation she currently finds herself in. Including the Fathers of the children (if Ron is not the father) Friends, Brothers, Father, any man she knew or knows in the past, girlfriends, Aunts, Uncles anyone and everyone needs to know. Its time for an Intervention on Mandy to save the life of her children.

Bottom line. Something needs to be done before it is too late.

SteelCityMom
08-04-2009, 01:34 PM
We all know what she SHOULD do. But to me (knowing people who have been in this situation before), it doesn't sound like she'll take any kind of drastic action until things get to a certain extreme. Her son has already been hurt, he's already begged her to leave him, as I'm sure her friends and family have begged as well, and she still hasn't taken any steps. The only thing to do now is be there for her and her children. Keep CYS involved. Nothing will change until she wants it to change for herself.

MACH1
08-04-2009, 01:35 PM
She needs to get out of there fast. If not for herself for the kids. Sounds like she has some co-dependency issues. If you know someone who was in a similar situation, have them talk to her and let her know she's not alone and life is better without scum like that in your life. It's only going to get worse and like said before somebody going to get hurt or killed.

Hammer67
08-04-2009, 02:04 PM
I agree with the vast majority of posts here. I do have to question Mandy's judgement. I also agree that she may have the personality of someone who will drift back to another relationship with another abusive person. I have seen it before...it's a trend.

She has made some questionable personal choices and owes it to her children to leave. It isn't about her own insecurities anymore. Both her and her kids are in phisical and emotional danger.

The problem is that it has to be her decision to leave, not her mother's or mother's friend.

SCSTILLER
08-04-2009, 05:54 PM
HTG, I agree with everyone that has posted above so far. Does she need to get away, hell yes! Is she going to, who knows from what I have read.

I am offering a piece of advice that is a bit different from what everyone is saying. Basically, make her choose between him and her friends. My friend was in a similar situation and she was constantly being abused, both mentally and physically. All the talks in the world with her and she kept saying "but you don't really know him, blah blah blah." So, one day everyone that cared about her got together and made a concerted effort to let her know that until you are away from him we are not your friends. We told her that we could not watch her go through this and that we have tried everything. For several months she would call and email everyone and we all ignored her. One day my buddy got a message that said she dumped him and we were the reason. She figured out that she valued her friends more than him.

Now, I am not saying this will always work. It all depends on the person and it takes alot of effort on behalf of all the friends. I understand it may not work because if her son is begging her to leave and she isn't, well, that says alot. But, it might be something to look into if all else fails.

HometownGal
08-04-2009, 06:24 PM
Thank you all so very much for your thoughts on this disturbing issue. In a day or two, I'm going to email this thread to my friend so that she can read all of your great suggestions. Maybe at some point, she will pass it along to Mandy in the hopes that maybe reading your thoughts on this matter will cause her to re-think her position, as you are all on the "outside looking in" so to speak and are being objective. :hope:

Mandy comes from very good stock and is an extremely intelligent young woman, but obviously very naive when it comes to "love". Her parents were divorced when she was young, but get along very well. She gave birth to her first son when she was in her early 20's and was still somewhat immature. Raising a child can mature one very quickly and I watched her mature slowly (but surely) over the years and she has become a good Mom to Jack. Her new little son is her husband's child - they were engaged several months before she learned she was pregnant.

Again - many thanks for you all taking the time to share your thoughts and advice. :hug: :hug: :hug:

theplatypus
08-04-2009, 09:19 PM
I don't know you and we've never spoken. With that being said your friend needs to get out now before it gets worse. Unfortunately, barring a miracle it will almost definitely get worse.

JEFF4i
08-04-2009, 10:35 PM
I'll say two things;

I'm in a similar situation of lifestyle. Young 20s, married, with a child. And frankly, at one point, I could be verbally abusive. Not much to say, I was, and it's past me now. I never hit her, but verbally can be just as bad. But what helped me get through it was help from others, but also the cornerstone of any good relationship, communication. I had to let my wife see how ****ed up I was, and felt, for us to work together to fix the situation. I owe her in a way I could never describe for her patience. But what I'm saying is communication is one of the most powerful tools for two people getting through almost any conflict. Since then we still argue, but I never have, or ever will, cross that line again.

Second, objectively, from my psych degree...most abusive relationships don't get better. They can, but most don't. It gets worse and worse, and the most horrible part is the man/woman belittles their partner to a point of complete submission because the partner begins to believe what the other is saying. I mean they love them, know them, and say those things, so maybe they are right? Well, they aren't, and even if they were, there is a certain standard that someone treats another with whom they love. So if my post gets lumped into what you're showing her...I'd like to say this. What's right and good can sometimes be one of the most painful and hardest things you ever do. But one day, down the road, you'll be happy, and realize that it was so worth it, not just for your son, but also for yourself. I mean, your parent's wouldn't want their little one being hurt either, right? That goes for him too, changing oneself is very difficult, but the basic premise is this...a person you've devoted your life to, who you love and cherish, in all circumstances, deserves the best of yourself.

SteelCityMan786
08-04-2009, 11:35 PM
She should dumb him and dump him FAST. The guy has shown he doesn't care about her. Next thing after that is get a protection from abuse order.

This guy has no right treating a woman as he has done. These are the type of guys that make the mature ones that know how to treat a woman look BAD.

JEFF4i
08-04-2009, 11:42 PM
She should dumb him and dump him FAST. The guy has shown he doesn't care about her. Next thing after that is get a protection from abuse order.

This guy has no right treating a woman as he has done. These are the type of guys that make the mature ones that know how to treat a woman look BAD.

I agree he has no right, but things aren't quite that simple chap.

SteelCityMan786
08-05-2009, 10:34 AM
I agree he has no right, but things aren't quite that simple chap.

Unfortunately that is the case. Especially with how crazy this society is.

JEFF4i
08-05-2009, 11:00 AM
Unfortunately that is the case. Especially with how crazy this society is.

Oh, I'm not saying she shouldn't leave him if he doesn't get his crap together, she should. All I'm saying is, for the guy, he's probably mature and most likely loves it. He's just f***ed up, bad. No excuse, but addressing the true scope of the problem, which he and she have to do if they want it fixed, is essential.

Vincent
08-05-2009, 11:38 AM
This individual is damaged goods. He will likely remain damaged goods until someone dispatches him. He will continue to abuse until he is rendered unable to abuse.

Does she really want to risk that just to stay married?

I do have to question Mandy's judgement. I also agree that she may have the personality of someone who will drift back to another relationship with another abusive person.

Agree. Most importantly, Mandy has the responsibility to her children to get away from the abuser and stay away from other abusers.

She should dump him and dump him FAST. The guy has shown he doesn't care about her. Next thing after that is get a protection from abuse order.

Good idea, but that type often doesn't receive that message well. Our neighbor has had to take in her daughter and her three young sons under the same situation. Since then she has weathered repeated vandalism even under a restraining order. She has had to install surveilance and hire detectives just to even the playing field.

As they say in WV, "Some people just need to be killed".

lousiville slugger and aim for the cheap seats

Aluminum. Bat speed.

IMHO, "society" has no capacity to deal with these situations. It comes down to the family. The men of the family need to take the matter in hand.

vasteeler
08-05-2009, 11:58 AM
This individual is damaged goods. He will likely remain damaged goods until someone dispatches him. He will continue to abuse until he is rendered unable to abuse.





Agree. Most importantly, Mandy has the responsibility to her children to get away from the abuser and stay away from other abusers.



Good idea, but that type often doesn't receive that message well. Our neighbor has had to take in her daughter and her three young sons under the same situation. Since then she has weathered repeated vandalism even under a restraining order. She has had to install surveilance and hire detectives just to even the playing field.

As they say in WV, "Some people just need to be killed".



Aluminum. Bat speed.

IMHO, "society" has no capacity to deal with these situations. It comes down to the family. The men of the family need to take the matter in hand.

exactly

Fire Haley
08-05-2009, 03:10 PM
Get rid of him.

A good hitman would know how to make it look like an accident.

HometownGal
08-07-2009, 08:34 AM
Get rid of him.

A good hitman would know how to make it look like an accident.

You volunteering? :wink02::chuckle:

Seriously - thanks folks for your great input. I am going to link this thread to my friend over the weekend and I'm sure she will really appreciate all of your advice. :drink::hug:

Fire Haley
08-07-2009, 11:17 AM
I am going to link this thread to my friend over the weekend and I'm sure she will really appreciate all of your advice.

* Disclaimer - all of my posts are for entertainment purposes only.

(MY lawyer told me to say that - just in case...you know...something should happen...)

HometownGal
08-07-2009, 12:58 PM
* Disclaimer - all of my posts are for entertainment purposes only.

(MY lawyer told me to say that - just in case...you know...something should happen...)

LOL! You're such a stinker! :chuckle: :buttkick:

RoethlisBURGHer
08-07-2009, 05:02 PM
You volunteering? :wink02::chuckle:

Seriously - thanks folks for your great input. I am going to link this thread to my friend over the weekend and I'm sure she will really appreciate all of your advice. :drink::hug:

I am. I hate "men" (I use that term very loosely) who hit their women and children.

A real man doesn't lay a hand on a woman or child in a way that isn't loving. This guy is a piece of shit and deserves to die, IMHO.

Sadly, if Mandy is like most of the women I know in the same situation, she will just find another guy who does the same things.

But seriously, if shit doesn't get better or she doesn't leave this douchebag...let me know. I will make a special trip to take care of this MFer. :mad: