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View Full Version : Great job Bill!


The_WARDen
08-04-2009, 04:29 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090804/ap_on_re_as/as_nkorea_journalists_held

:thumbsup:

revefsreleets
08-04-2009, 04:41 PM
I wonder if he's paid some "special attention" to the two young women in question?

Still, nice job Slick Willie! I'm sure Hillary hogging all the headlines forced him to do something to stay relevant...

Stlrs4Life
08-04-2009, 10:06 PM
Something that W could never do. Communicate.

MACH1
08-04-2009, 10:11 PM
Something that W could never do. Communicate.

The question is, what did obaaaaama give up to make it happen? And don't give me it was a private deal BS.

stillers4me
08-04-2009, 10:15 PM
Kim Jong Mentally ill reneged on every deal he made with Clinton. Took every dime we gave him and then did exactly what he wanted . I applaud Slick Willy for doing this...I'm just skeptical about the outcome.

HometownGal
08-04-2009, 10:17 PM
Something that W could never do. Communicate.

Seriously, Dom - when are you Demos going to cease with the but, but, but Bush bullshit in every political thread? This thread has absolutely nothing to do with him. :shake02:

I am glad this story had a happy ending for these two young journalists and thank Bill Clinton for his efforts. :drink:

(Probably p-o/d Kim Jong off to take a few minutes away from his porn vids :chuckle:)

JEFF4i
08-04-2009, 10:22 PM
Seriously, Dom - when are you Demos going to cease with the but, but, but Bush bullshit in every political thread? This thread has absolutely nothing to do with him. :shake02:

I am glad this story had a happy ending for these two young journalists and thank Bill Clinton for his efforts. :drink:

(Probably p-o/d Kim Jong off to take a few minutes away from his porn vids :chuckle:)

Ahhh c'mon HTG, I don't bash Bush, and I'm somewhat liberal.

Stlrs4Life
08-04-2009, 10:23 PM
Seriously., when are you neo cons going to get off of Obamas jock strap? When he has done, (or has attempted) to do something for this country in 8 months, than your boy did in 8 yuears of office. And if the truth hurts, sorry. And will continue to do so when half the stuff he is doing is trying to correct something his predecessor couldn''t do.

MACH1
08-04-2009, 10:33 PM
Seriously., when are you neo cons going to get off of Obamas jock strap? When he has done, (or has attempted) to do something for this country in 8 months, than your boy did in 8 yuears of office. And if the truth hurts, sorry. And will continue to do so when half the stuff he is doing is trying to correct something his predecessor couldn''t do.

What is Destroy the country, Alex for $40.

HometownGal
08-04-2009, 11:42 PM
Seriously., when are you neo cons going to get off of Obamas jock strap? When he has done, (or has attempted) to do something for this country in 8 months, than your boy did in 8 yuears of office. And if the truth hurts, sorry. And will continue to do so when half the stuff he is doing is trying to correct something his predecessor couldn''t do.

WTH does this thread have to do with either Obaaaaaama or Bush??? :doh: C'mon Dom - you're better than this.

tony hipchest
08-04-2009, 11:58 PM
WTH does this thread have to do with either Obaaaaaama or Bush??? :doh: C'mon Dom - you're better than this.
probably about as much as it does monica lewinsky.


I wonder if he's paid some "special attention" to the two young women in question?

Still, nice job Slick Willie! I'm sure Hillary hogging all the headlines forced him to do something to stay relevant...

bu..bu..bu...hypocricy at its finest. :coffee:

c'mon revs... youre better than this... :rolleyes:

X-Terminator
08-05-2009, 12:35 AM
Well, there goes another thread into the cyber crapper.

A little credit where credit is due should suffice here.

HometownGal
08-05-2009, 07:08 AM
probably about as much as it does monica lewinsky.



bu..bu..bu...hypocricy at its finest. :coffee:

c'mon revs... youre better than this... :rolleyes:

He still stayed within the topic of the thread.

Still, nice job Slick Willie!

God forbid anyone call you Libs out for your endless Bush bashing, almost 7 months after the guy has left office. :rolleyes:

bu..bu..bu bullshit at its finest. :coffee:

The Patriot
08-05-2009, 09:04 AM
Now we just have to rescue those hippie hikers from Iran.

KeiselPower99
08-05-2009, 09:13 AM
Why didnt they send Gore over? They worked for him. What a boss he is.

revefsreleets
08-05-2009, 09:15 AM
Seriously., when are you neo cons going to get off of Obamas jock strap? When he has done, (or has attempted) to do something for this country in 8 months, than your boy did in 8 yuears of office. And if the truth hurts, sorry. And will continue to do so when half the stuff he is doing is trying to correct something his predecessor couldn''t do.

Like triple the deficit in less than a year?

Yippee for Barry!

I'm sorry, but after I saw the pictures of the two reporters, the obvious joke was there for the taking. They are both pretty attractive, and the one is gorgeous...and Bill DOES have a bit of a reputation. Hillary's off for 11 days in Africa, Bill has some time on his hands, there are some damsels in distress...

AllD
08-05-2009, 10:56 AM
Bill went just to get away from Hilary and to get some little Asian poon while he was in a new zip code.

klick81
08-05-2009, 11:25 AM
They look rather "homely" to me. I'm sure Bill can do better!

revefsreleets
08-05-2009, 11:38 AM
The pics printed in my paper told a different story. The one chick looked like a model...

Vincent
08-05-2009, 12:07 PM
If you will recall, the reactor deal included "peace in our time" and "future considerations".

silver & black
08-05-2009, 10:31 PM
It's rumored that it was a done deal before Clinton ever went over there to "broker the deal" for their release. Supposedly (as I have no link or facts to back it up) the parents of the two women said this.

I wouldn't doubt it... just another Slick Willie "way to keep my face in the public eye" ploy., with the outcome a foregone conclusion.

Having said that... I'm very happy for the two women and their families.

SteelMember
08-06-2009, 08:08 AM
I'm glad they were released, but I hope they learned a lesson in their effort to "report a story". Attempting to slip across hostile boarders with some simple plan of being able to blend in was very risky. :noidea:

revefsreleets
08-06-2009, 09:44 AM
That's no rumor. Clinton going, while having a few diplomatic benefits, was mostly window dressing.

The administration needed a win, and this is what they came up with. Regardless, Obamie drew a line in the sand for NK, and it's approaching...it will be interesting to see how he reacts to them ignoring it.

The Patriot
08-06-2009, 02:49 PM
That's no rumor. Clinton going, while having a few diplomatic benefits, was mostly window dressing.

The administration needed a win, and this is what they came up with. Regardless, Obamie drew a line in the sand for NK, and it's approaching...it will be interesting to see how he reacts to them ignoring it.

Or the administration peacefully negotiated the release of two American hostages while giving a former US president the opportunity to glimpse a shady dictator's state of mind.

Obama handled the situation perfectly. Deal with it. :coffee:

revefsreleets
08-06-2009, 03:13 PM
I gave him credit. God knows this guy needs whatever wins he can find, and he'll take them ANYWHERE he can scrounge them up.

But, there's still a larger question that needs to be asked. What other concessions were made that we don't know of, terms that were cloaked in the media frenzy that having Bill Clinton "negotiate" the release created?

MACH1
08-06-2009, 03:25 PM
That's no rumor. Clinton going, while having a few diplomatic benefits, was mostly window dressing.

The administration needed a win, and this is what they came up with. Regardless, Obamie drew a line in the sand for NK, and it's approaching...it will be interesting to see how he reacts to them ignoring it.

He'll do absolutely nothing and blame it on Bush.

revefsreleets
08-06-2009, 03:36 PM
He'll do absolutely nothing and blame it on Bush.

That will no longer work. These proverbial "lines in the sand" are actually trapping him into having to take some kind of substantive action, and I'm not sure HE even knows what his next step would be...

The Patriot
08-06-2009, 03:50 PM
I gave him credit. God knows this guy needs whatever wins he can find, and he'll take them ANYWHERE he can scrounge them up.

But, there's still a larger question that needs to be asked. What other concessions were made that we don't know of, terms that were cloaked in the media frenzy that having Bill Clinton "negotiate" the release created?

We didn't give up shit. North Korea did it to show good favor and so they could print in their papers "Glorious, Merciful Kim Jong-il Pardons American Spies!" Good for them. Everyone wins.

revefsreleets
08-06-2009, 04:01 PM
We gave up nothing?

How the Hell do you know that? Were you there?

MACH1
08-06-2009, 04:04 PM
We didn't give up shit. North Korea did it to show good favor and so they could print in their papers "Glorious, Merciful Kim Jong-il Pardons American Spies!" Good for them. Everyone wins.

And the pats* never cheated. :coffee:

The Patriot
08-06-2009, 04:05 PM
We gave up nothing?

How the Hell do you know that? Were you there?

You're right. We gave him Hawaii. Great work, Sherlock. You saved America.

J Dogg
08-06-2009, 04:06 PM
We didn't give up shit. North Korea did it to show good favor and so they could print in their papers "Glorious, Merciful Kim Jong-il Pardons American Spies!" Good for them. Everyone wins.

Just our dignity.....but you didn't have any to begin with.

revefsreleets
08-06-2009, 04:09 PM
You're right. We gave him Hawaii. Great work, Sherlock. You saved America.

North Korea is our longest standing adversary. They EXIST to be a thorn in our side.

Yet you naively think that they just conceded this bargaining chip for nothing?

Uh-huh...

There's more to this going on in the back-room wheelings and dealings, and we'll find out about it soon enough...

revefsreleets
08-06-2009, 04:13 PM
Here's Charles Krauthammers take:

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Well, it's the return of hostages in exchange for stuff. And we will learn about that stuff. It's clear that this was wired in advance.

There probably was an apology. After of all, the secretary of state, the president's wife, had said openly, as we say earlier, that we were sorry about the incident, and we were asking for amnesty, which was implying the legitimacy of the arrest and the trial. So we have already issued an apology.

Secondly, it is obvious that he was an envoy of the Obama administration despite our denials. This is the one time in history in which the official news station of the North Koreans told the truth, but it does happen once every 50 years. But thirdly, there was obviously a quid pro quo. The first of it we saw because we had Kim Jong II, who has had a stroke, he's been wobbly and unsteady, and you can understand in a dictatorship like his how that begins the rumors of succession. So by standing up in the photos that we just saw, obviously engaged with Clinton, he looks like he is back in charge. That helps him personally.

Secondly, by getting a very high level envoy, you can't get higher level than a former president of the United States, it does help the North Koreans in their legitimacy, and it's a demonstration of direct negotiations with the United States, which is what Pyongyang has always demanded. So it's getting it. It got a lot.

And it probably has gotten stuff that we haven't even heard about and we may never hear about, aid in food and oil. All of that stuff will happen quietly in the future.

But it was a hostage ransom. No question at all.

The Patriot
08-06-2009, 05:27 PM
North Korea is our longest standing adversary. They EXIST to be a thorn in our side.

Yet you naively think that they just conceded this bargaining chip for nothing?

Uh-huh...

There's more to this going on in the back-room wheelings and dealings, and we'll find out about it soon enough...

You complained that Obama's diplomatic approach would fail in the other thread, and now that it has succeeded, your knee-jerk reaction is to find fault. You are an ideologue, sir. When it comes to Obama, you are always certain that there is something rotten somewhere. It is impossible to disprove a negative, so there is no sense in arguing with you. There is better sense in arguing with a bar of soap. Good day.

theplatypus
08-06-2009, 10:10 PM
He still stayed within the topic of the thread.



God forbid anyone call you Libs out for your endless Bush bashing, almost 7 months after the guy has left office. :rolleyes:

bu..bu..bu bullshit at its finest. :coffee:

Call me crazy, but I'm betting you were among the masses that said "but but but Clinton" for 8 freaking years.

X-Terminator
08-06-2009, 11:37 PM
Call me crazy, but I'm betting you were among the masses that said "but but but Clinton" for 8 freaking years.

I guess you're crazy then.

I could go into more detail on that, but I'll leave that up to HTG, if she so desires. Besides, I don't want to make you shove your foot even further in your mouth than you already have...though it is tempting I admit.

silver & black
08-07-2009, 07:25 AM
We didn't give up shit. North Korea did it to show good favor and so they could print in their papers "Glorious, Merciful Kim Jong-il Pardons American Spies!" Good for them. Everyone wins.


Your zipper is down... and your naivete' is showing.

HometownGal
08-07-2009, 08:12 AM
Call me crazy, but I'm betting you were among the masses that said "but but but Clinton" for 8 freaking years.

OK - I'll call you crazy.

I voted for the man and felt he did a decent job as Prez, which I've stated numerous times on this very board.

So guess what? You're WRONG.

Enjoy eating those words. You may want to put a little sugar on 'em so they don't taste so sour.

revefsreleets
08-07-2009, 08:46 AM
You complained that Obama's diplomatic approach would fail in the other thread, and now that it has succeeded, your knee-jerk reaction is to find fault. You are an ideologue, sir. When it comes to Obama, you are always certain that there is something rotten somewhere. It is impossible to disprove a negative, so there is no sense in arguing with you. There is better sense in arguing with a bar of soap. Good day.

Do you even KNOW what you are talking about?

How naive of you...you think NK just did this out of the goodness of their hearts? More importantly, in the large scheme of things, how big of a victory is this REALLY? Not very...NK is still a nuke armed country run by a little crazy man. This was mostly a PR stunt, not the treaty of Versailles.

I'm sorry that you feel this largely Pyrrhic victory should be heralded as much more than it really is, but how is that MY fault?

And, again, how does this keep NK from continuing on with their nuclear program? When Obamie does something of any value in that arena, I'll give him some real creidit. In the meantime, why not show some restarint and stop treating winning a tiny skirmish as if we just won WWIII? And stop battering the messenger for the message simply because you don't want to hear anything negative about the Great and Chosen One.

revefsreleets
08-07-2009, 09:54 AM
Just to clarify the seriousness of the situation in re North Korea, here is an op/ed piece from Kristof. The hostage situation is 1 1.5 on the Richter scale of importance no matter how much value the left attempts to attach to it:

http://www.ohio.com/editorial/commentary/52632662.html

Now, get tougher with North Korea

By Nicholas D. Kristof
New York Times

Published on Friday, Aug 07, 2009

NEW YORK: Now that President Bill Clinton has extricated Laura Ling and Euna Lee from North Korea, the hard work begins.

There are new indications that North Korea may be transferring nuclear weapons technology to Myanmar, the dictatorship also known as Burma, and that it earlier supplied a reactor to Syria. For many years, based on five visits to North Korea and its border areas, I've argued for an ''engagement'' approach toward Pyongyang, but now I've reluctantly concluded that we need more sticks.

Burmese defectors have provided detailed accounts of a North Korean reactor, perhaps a mirror of the one provided to Syria, built inside a mountain deep in Myanmar. The reports, first aired in the Sydney Morning Herald this month, come from Desmond Ball, a respected Asia scholar, and Phil Thornton, a journalist with expertise on Myanmar, and there has been other fragmentary intelligence to back them up.

If the defectors' accounts are true, the reactor ''could be capable of being operational and producing a bomb a year, every year, after 2014,'' Ball and Thornton wrote.

The suspicions may be false, and Iraq is a reminder that defector reports about WMD can be wrong. But partly because the North Korean reactor in Syria (destroyed by Israeli bombing in 2007) caught intelligence agencies by surprise, everyone is taking the latest reports seriously. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton expressed concern about the transfer of nuclear technology from North Korea to Myanmar, without giving details.

All this was eerily foreshadowed by the North Koreans themselves. Michael Green, who ran Asian affairs for a time in the Bush White House, says that in March 2003, a North Korean official — with hands shaking — read out to him and other American officials a warning: We have a nuclear deterrent. If you don't end your hostile policy, we will demonstrate, expand and transfer it.

''They've done all those things,'' Green notes.

At times in the past, there seemed hope for diplomacy aimed at coaxing North Korea into giving up its nuclear program and joining the concert of nations. These days that seems virtually hopeless.

''Formal diplomatic engagement aimed at rolling back their nuclear program has run its course, at least for the time being,'' says Mitchell Reiss, a North Korea expert and former senior State Department official who is now at the College of William and Mary. ''The facts have changed. You have to change your strategy.''

In the past, Reiss focused on engagement. Now he advocates ''hard containment'' — toughened sanctions backed by military force if necessary.

The truth is that North Korea doesn't want to negotiate away its nuclear materials. It is focused on its own transition, and this year it has declined to accept a visit from the Obama administration's special envoy, Stephen Bosworth. The North isn't interested in ''six-party talks'' on nuclear issues; instead, it seeks talks with the U.S. conditioned on accepting North Korea's status as a nuclear power — which is unacceptable.

In recent months, North Korea has dismantled some economic reforms and economic cooperation projects with South Korea. Meanwhile, it continues to counterfeit U.S. $100 bills — the highest-quality goods that North Korea manufactures — and its embassies in Pakistan and other countries pay their way by smuggling drugs, liquor and currency.

The North has released its American hostages but continues to hold South Koreans. And it's the most totalitarian state in history: In North Korean homes, I've seen the ''speaker'' on the wall that wakes people up with propaganda each morning. More bizarre, triplets are routinely taken from parents and raised by the state because they are considered auspicious.

There are no good options here, and a grass-roots revolution is almost impossible. North Koreans, even those in China who despise the regime, overwhelmingly agree that most ordinary North Koreans swallow the propaganda. Indeed, Kim Jong Il's approval rating in his country may well be higher than President Barack Obama's is in the United States.

Our best bet will be to continue to support negotiations, including a back channel that can focus on substance instead of protocol, as well as economic and cultural exchanges — but backed up by sticks. The Obama administration is now working with allies to reimpose economic and financial sanctions that a few years ago were very successful in squeezing the North Korean regime. China is surprisingly cooperative, even quietly intercepting several shipments of supplies useful for WMD programs.

Where we have intelligence that North Korean ships are transferring nuclear materials or technology to a country like Myanmar or Iran, we should go further and board those vessels. That's an extreme step, but the nightmare would be if Iran simply decided to save time and buy a nuclear weapon or two from North Korea. We can't allow that to happen.
Kristof is a New York Times columnist.