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Fire Haley
08-10-2009, 11:54 AM
Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:31:19 -0700

George M. Thomas, of the Akron Beacon Journal, reports Cleveland Browns QBs Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson were both inconsistent during a scrimmage Sunday, Aug. 9. The quarterback battle is expected to last well into the preseason. "I thought both guys had their moments on the plus side and the side that we still need to work on," head coach Eric Mangini said. "They moved the team at different times with different levels of effectiveness." Quinn completed 11-of-19 passes for 121 yards, including a 51-yard touchdown pass and an interception. Anderson completed 12-of-21 passes for 107 yards and an interception, and he scored a touchdown on a 6-yard scramble.

--------------------------

Flip a coin Mankok....flip a coin.

revefsreleets
08-10-2009, 02:04 PM
The fact they just won't name Quinn the starter proves to me this team is destined to be mired in mediocrity for the foreseeable future. DA's QBR has been dropping like a rock since December of '07...

Fire Haley
08-10-2009, 02:38 PM
Didn't the Browns pass on Big Ben in the 2004 draft to take KW2?

I thought so.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
08-10-2009, 05:30 PM
Didn't the Browns pass on Big Ben in the 2004 draft to take KW2?

I thought so.

Didn't want him them, don't want him now.

If he would have been drafted by the Browns that year he would have been out of the league by now or a backup for the Oakland Raiders.

Ben landed in a good situation with the Steelers, he already had a team that had been built up with a ground game, good recievers, decent o-line, and a great World Beater type defense.

The same could not have been said of the 2004 Browns who really had 0 Pro Bowlers on their roster on either side of the ball.

Fire Haley
08-10-2009, 05:40 PM
Didn't want him them, don't want him now.
.

ha ha

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I got my new hat

http://i.ebayimg.com/16/!BRpzgig!mk~$(KGrHgoH-D4EjlLl0WegBJ+L+z7Q9w~~_35.JPG

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
08-10-2009, 05:46 PM
ha ha

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I'd take him on my fantasy team, but that's about it..but lets face some facts, he would not help the Browns win games at this time.

His contract is HUUUUGE, so you have that going against him, and their is still massive holes in the defense and on the right side of the o-line.

Browns have bigger problems right now then who's starting at QB.

Fire Haley
08-10-2009, 06:10 PM
Browns have bigger problems right now then who's starting at QB.

Negative ghostrider - that has always been the Brown's biggest problem.

Never forget - Charlie Frye beat out DA....and all y'all were kissing his butt too, as the next messiah.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
08-10-2009, 06:14 PM
Negative ghostrider - that has always been the Brown's biggest problem.

Never forget - Charlie Frye beat out DA....and all y'all were kissing his butt too.

Disagree whole-heartidly.

You can win with a mediocre Qb, just ask the 2000 Baltimore Ravens and 2002 Bucs.

heck for as bad as the Steelers choked in the AFC title games under Cowher, they were at least able to reach them

The Browns can't even do that right now. They need to build up their defense, get some pass rushers, get a solid ground game going and finish building up the Rightside of the o-line, then we can talk QB.

revefsreleets
08-11-2009, 09:09 AM
The Browns had a decent line for a couple years, and decent skill players. Ben would have torn it up on the Browns, and they'd have been able to craft a winning team around him.

This is a loser mentality that permeates the fan base stemming from an inferior product on the field...it's like a poison for the mind...

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 09:39 AM
We tried building from the skill positions...it failed. You (revs) just can't get past the fact that we're trying to build the team the right way now. You can't get past how bad we've been lately.

We're building the team with the lines...then working our way out. Big Ben would have been a mistake to draft...just like KW2 was. We don't need skill players when there's no line to speak of (and when he was drafted, we had no line to speak of.) Drafting Joe T was a step in the right direction. Drafting Alex Mack should be a pretty good step in the right direction. If we can fix deficiencies on our O-line and fix the issues with our Front-7 on D...we'll be a much improved team.

Steel Head
08-11-2009, 09:41 AM
Didn't want him them, don't want him now.

If he would have been drafted by the Browns that year he would have been out of the league by now or a backup for the Oakland Raiders.

Ben landed in a good situation with the Steelers, he already had a team that had been built up with a ground game, good recievers, decent o-line, and a great World Beater type defense.

The same could not have been said of the 2004 Browns who really had 0 Pro Bowlers on their roster on either side of the ball.

Stupidest post ever? i think so

Ben is a winner and would be a winner anywhere he went

I knew Cleveland had stupid people running their team but didn't realize their fans were also as dumb

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 09:52 AM
Stupidest post ever? i think so

Ben is a winner and would be a winner anywhere he went

I knew Cleveland had stupid people running their team but didn't realize their fans were also as dumb
This would have been his protection. He would have ended up where Jeff Garcia finished the season at...Injured Reserve.

62 Craig Osika, G 6-3 318 12/4/79 3 Indiana
64 Ryan Pontbriand, C 6-2 255 10/1/79 2 Rice
65 Kirk Chambers, OL 6-7 313 3/19/79 R Stanford
66 Paul Zukauskas, OL 6-5 320 7/12/79 4 Boston College
67 Melvin Fowler, OL 6-3 305 3/31/79 3 Maryland
70 Enoch DeMar, OT 6-4 320 9/7/80 2 Indiana
72 Damion Cook, OT 6-5 335 4/16/79 3 Bethune Cookman
73 Joaquin Gonzalez, OL 6-5 315 9/7/79 3 Miami Fla
75 Javiar Collins, T 6-6 322 4/13/78 4 Northwestern
77 Ross Verba, OT 6-4 305 10/31/73 8 Iowa

INJURED RESERVE
---------------
50 Jeff Faine, C 6-3 303 4/6/81 2 Notre Dame
63 Kelvin Garmon, G 6-2 350 10/26/76 6 Baylor
72 Ryan Tucker, OT 6-6 320 6/12/75 8 TCU
75 Sterling Harris, OT 6-5 305 8/17/81 SMU


******************************
Here are his pass targets
81 Antonio Bryant, WR 6-1 192 3/9/81 3 Pittsburgh
82 Steve Heiden, TE 6-5 265 9/21/76 6 South Dakota St.
83 Aaron Shea, TE 6-3 255 12/5/76 5 Michigan
84 Andre King, WR 5-11 195 11/26/73 4 Miami Fla
86 Dennis Northcutt, WR 5-11 175 12/22/77 5 Arizona
89 Richard Alston, WR 5-11 215 11/20/80 1 East Carolina
87 Andre Davis, WR 6-1 195 6/12/79 3 Virginia Tech (IR)
88 Chad Mustard, TE 6-6 288 10/8/77 3 North Dakota (IR)
********************************
Here was the runningbacks from 2004

23 Adimchinobe Echema, RB 5-10 226 11/21/80 R California
31 William Green, RB 6-0 215 12/17/79 3 Boston College
42 Terrelle Smith, FB 6-0 255 3/12/78 5 Arizona St
44 Lee Suggs, RB 6-0 210 8/11/80 2 Virginia Tech
40 Ben Miller, RB 6-3 265 8/18/79 1 Air Force (IR)


What about this team do you think helps Ben out in the least? He would have been creamed.

revefsreleets
08-11-2009, 09:53 AM
We tried building from the skill positions...it failed. You (revs) just can't get past the fact that we're trying to build the team the right way now. You can't get past how bad we've been lately.

We're building the team with the lines...then working our way out. Big Ben would have been a mistake to draft...just like KW2 was. We don't need skill players when there's no line to speak of (and when he was drafted, we had no line to speak of.) Drafting Joe T was a step in the right direction. Drafting Alex Mack should be a pretty good step in the right direction. If we can fix deficiencies on our O-line and fix the issues with our Front-7 on D...we'll be a much improved team.

If you have no line you draft a MOBILE, IMPROVISATIONAL QB.

Ben is a once-in-a-generation type of QB...it was epic fail for the Browns to pass on him. You can spin this any way you like, but the fact remains: Ben would have been a gem to build a perennial winner around...fail fail fail....

Also, addressing the last post, try the following years roster...Ben could have set for a year and learned just as the Steelers had him slated to do...

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 09:55 AM
If you have no line you draft a MOBILE, IMPROVISATIONAL QB.

Ben is a once-in-a-generation type of QB...it was epic fail for the Browns to pass on him. You can spin this any way you like, but the fact remains: Ben would have been a gem to build a perennial winner around...fail fail fail....

Check the roster. He had nothing. He had no one. No quarterback, no matter how good, wins it on their own. The Browns have failed, time and time again...but Ben would have been the next Tim Couch. Out of the NFL before his time.

revefsreleets
08-11-2009, 10:02 AM
2005 the browns had Reuben Droughns, Bryant, Northcutt and Edwards, up front they had Faine, Coleman, Andruzzi, Tucker and Shelton. They weren't an awesome team, but he'd have had some weapons to work with.

It's just sour grapes...Ben is a superstar QB, your team effed up and passed him by, and revisionist history can't change any of that. It's just another draft fail in a long line of drafts fails from a team that can do little right.

And your solution is to kill the messenger...

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 10:10 AM
That's assuming Ben survives the onslaught of 2004.

If we had Ben, would we have brought in Droughns?

Bryant and Northcutt are hardly the kinds of WR's that put fear into D-coordinator's hearts.

Fained was OK (at best). Colemand Andruzzi and Shelton were serviceable at best. Tucker was pretty decent. That's about it.

There's so much more to it than just simply trading out players drafted. Let's say we drafted Ben in 2004. Would that have made us a better team in 2004? By your estimation, that would have been a resounding yes.

If so, would have been able to get Edwards? That would be a no. Our improved draft position would have decreased our chances of getting another WR. Instead of getting Edwards...we would have been left with Troy Williamson or Mike Williams...unless you think they would have taken a chance on Matt Jones/Mark Clayton instead.

revefsreleets
08-11-2009, 10:23 AM
Reading comprehension: I said SIT Ben in 2004...

Faine and Andruzzi are better than you are giving them credit for solely to try and drag your own team down to win an argument.

In '05, with Ben slated to take over the starting job, they probably still take Edwards and Pool #1 and #2, but #3 they'd not have taken Frye. They addressed the line in FA by signing Andruzzi and Coleman. They actually looked like they were headed in the right direction, and Ben certainly would have been a HUGE upgrade over Trent Dilfer...

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 10:38 AM
Sit Ben behind who? Health was a huge issue that season (as it has been most seasons.) Frye started because we had health issues at the QB spot. Ben would have played. Ben would have gotten hurt. Besides, according to you, the stench of ineptitude has infected the pores of everyone within the organization. Suddenly it would have stopped with the drafting of Big Ben?

Steel Head
08-11-2009, 10:51 AM
go back to that draft and tell me who the Browns should have drafted?

you guys are idiots, the Browns would trade half of their team right now for Ben

revefsreleets
08-11-2009, 11:08 AM
I'm SHOCKED at the lack of knowledge of your own team...why am I explaining this to you?

In 2004 the Browns had Holcomb, Garcia and McCown on their roster...Garcia was a veteran starter and even Holcomb had experience. You most DEFINITELY sit Ben behind those guys, dump McCown and let him learn.

In case you didn't know (and it's a good bet you don't), th Steelers plans were to sit Ben behind Tommy Friggin' Maddox (but Maddox was injured early on), so sitting him for a year behind Garcia would have made good plain sense.

Please stop...you're embarrassing yourself at this point...

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 11:11 AM
go back to that draft and tell me who the Browns should have drafted?

you guys are idiots, the Browns would trade half of their team right now for Ben

Whatever moron.

Need I remind you (and Revs) what the draft prospect had to say about him:

NEGATIVES: A pocket passer with marginal mobility and cannot escape the rush. Must improve his downfield accuracy as well as the placement of the outs. Majority of snaps are taken out of the shotgun.

Drafting him on a team with no line, no WR and no HB worth mentioning seems like it'd be the exact same mistake we made when we drafted Tim Couch. Yes, we made a mistake in drafting KW2. However, drafting Ben would not have solved our problems. The team was shoddily put together in 1999...and little was done to rectify it. Savage made some moves to get us on the right track (like the drafting of Joe T, or getting Shaun Rogers)...but he also made some serious blunders (like signing Stallworth to that ridiculous contract.)

Hindisight is 20/20 Big Ben exceeded the expectations of almost everyone on the planet...including 99.9% of you Steelers fans. Your own personal revisionist history might make you believe otherwise, but that's a "you" problem.

The Browns need to continue to refine their lines...then they can be concerned with finding the skill players to match up with them. Without the lines, nobody we bring in will play well. Nobody. Especially when you consider that (at the moment) we don't have a defense that will keep most of the games we play close enough for it to matter.

revefsreleets
08-11-2009, 11:15 AM
Again, false. I'd seen Ben play innumerable times, and was on a rival board pimping the HELL out of him. I was ecstatic at the selection, and knew exactly what we had.

You REALLY need to go back and do a little research on your own team before you come busting onto a Steelers board telling us how one of the most productive QB's in the NFL would not have been a good fit for team that has played QB roulette for the least 10 years.

Hell, want research? Just read my last few posts!

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 11:25 AM
I'm SHOCKED at the lack of knowledge of your own team...why am I explaining this to you?

In 2004 the Browns had Holcomb, Garcia and McCown on their roster...Garcia was a veteran starter and even Holcomb had experience. You most DEFINITELY sit Ben behind those guys, dump McCown and let him learn.

In case you didn't know (and it's a good bet you don't), th Steelers plans were to sit Ben behind Tommy Friggin' Maddox (but Maddox was injured early on), so sitting him for a year behind Garcia would have made good plain sense.

Please stop...you're embarrassing yourself at this point...

Holcomb - Benched for inconsistency. Garcia - ended season on the IR. McCown...really? Even a rookie Ben is better than him.

I did know that the Steelers planned on sitting Ben. I also know that Ben had the benefit of veteran WR who could play the game, a runner who was on pace to break the 10K yards...and a stellar defense.

None of that matches up to what the Browns could offer Ben.

Again, false. I'd seen Ben play innumerable times, and was on a rival board pimping the HELL out of him. I was ecstatic at the selection, and knew exactly what we had.

You REALLY need to go back and do a little research on your own team before you come busting onto a Steelers board telling us how one of the most productive QB's in the NFL would not have been a good fit for team that has played QB roulette for the least 10 years.

Hell, want research? Just read my last few posts!

Reading comprehension...I said 99.9% (yeah, you fail...fail...fail... there too)

The Browns weren't drafting a QB propsect who had "questionable mobility" to sit on a team with no line. Ben fell into the perfect situation with the Steelers. He would have had the exact opposite with the Browns. Defense didn't keep it close enough for him to manage the game...he would have been asked to try and win it himself. Our coaching was terrible then...which is why Garcia failed (before landing on the IR) and Holcomb proved himself (time and again) to be a great career backup...and nothing more.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-11-2009, 11:42 AM
If Quinn doesn't win the starting job, Browns fans are going to riot.

IMHO, Anderson was a one year wonder. He can throw it down the field and that's it. Not much accuracy, and little to no touch on short or intermediate throws. He is also an interception machine.

Quinn is a smart player. He was the reason Notre Dame was so good in Weiss' first two years there. He commands respect in the huddle, and he can make most of the throws. He doesn't have the greatest arm for going deep, but he can take his shots and he's pretty accurate with them.

You can build an offense around Quinn, I am not so sure if you can do that around Anderson.

Anderson is a very poor man's Brett Favre.

Fire Haley
08-11-2009, 11:46 AM
If Quinn doesn't win the starting job, Browns fans are going to riot

Their brains will asplode - why do you think I started this thread?

heh

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 11:52 AM
I'm not sold on either QB, to be quite honest. I was not sold on a QB who never won anything in college...and I'm not sold on the strong armed but innacurate (and immobile) Anderson either.

I just want a successful QB that turns us into a winner. If that means Theo Ratliff, so be it.

Dino 6 Rings
08-11-2009, 11:53 AM
Hindisight is 20/20 Big Ben exceeded the expectations of almost everyone on the planet...including 99.9% of you Steelers fans. Your own personal revisionist history might make you believe otherwise, but that's a "you" problem.

Here I bust out my best girl voice in the song Paradise by the Dashboard lights by Meatloaf...

STOP RIGHT THERE.

I remember the day we drafted Ben. I had a tear on my cheek from the utter joy I felt at having finally Drafting a Fcking QB with the First Round Pick. Everything about Ben told me, he could do the job. While Rivers and Eli were doing their little dance at the top of the draft board, I was witnessing a Future Super Bowl Winner being drafted by my team. And I KNEW IT on Draft Day. My wife looked at me, sitting on the couch and said "what's the matter" and I said, "Nothing...its all going to be good now. We drafted Ben Roethlisberger out of Miami Ohio. We haven't drafted a QB in the first round since Terry Bradshaw. We are going to finally win the Super Bowl again."

So the Browns EPIC FAIL. for sure on that one. Just like the Steelers Epic Failed for not Drafting Dan Marino out of Pitt.

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 11:59 AM
Being happy about getting him...and saying he exceeded your expectations are two different things. Reading comprehension.

Steel Head
08-11-2009, 12:10 PM
Whatever moron.

Need I remind you (and Revs) what the draft prospect had to say about him:

NEGATIVES: A pocket passer with marginal mobility and cannot escape the rush. Must improve his downfield accuracy as well as the placement of the outs. Majority of snaps are taken out of the shotgun.

Drafting him on a team with no line, no WR and no HB worth mentioning seems like it'd be the exact same mistake we made when we drafted Tim Couch. Yes, we made a mistake in drafting KW2. However, drafting Ben would not have solved our problems. The team was shoddily put together in 1999...and little was done to rectify it. Savage made some moves to get us on the right track (like the drafting of Joe T, or getting Shaun Rogers)...but he also made some serious blunders (like signing Stallworth to that ridiculous contract.)

Hindisight is 20/20 Big Ben exceeded the expectations of almost everyone on the planet...including 99.9% of you Steelers fans. Your own personal revisionist history might make you believe otherwise, but that's a "you" problem.

The Browns need to continue to refine their lines...then they can be concerned with finding the skill players to match up with them. Without the lines, nobody we bring in will play well. Nobody. Especially when you consider that (at the moment) we don't have a defense that will keep most of the games we play close enough for it to matter.

you are a stupid freakin moron. /thread

and im pretty sure 90% of your fellow cleveland turd fans would agree

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 12:19 PM
He wouldn't do our team too much good right now. Who's he going to throw too? Who's going to run the ball to keep the attention off of him? What defense is there to keep the games close so that he can make the big plays he makes?

1 QB is not the solution to the Browns problems. If you can't see that, that goes to show how little you know about football.

Steel Head
08-11-2009, 12:20 PM
He wouldn't do our team too much good right now. Who's he going to throw too? Who's going to run the ball to keep the attention off of him? What defense is there to keep the games close so that he can make the big plays he makes?

1 QB is not the solution to the Browns problems. If you can't see that, that goes to show how little you know about football.

you are a complete moron.

you seriously think your team wouldn't be better off with Big Ben?

i feel bad for people that are this stupid. society has failed them somewhere along the line

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 12:24 PM
We need much more than Big Ben...and when you consider his contract, we'd have to give up a lot of talent to have him. So yes, in this specific case, we would be worse with Ben...because we'd have much less talent to surround him with than what the Steelers have to offer.

revefsreleets
08-11-2009, 01:27 PM
I just don't understand what you are still arguing for.

The drafted a QB in the third the next year who had many of the same attributes of Ben MINUS his arm-strength. You can't use 20/20 hindsight on Garcia, stating that he was on the IR proves nothing OTHER than that they knew he (and Dilfer) were mere stop-gaps.

The Browns effed up in 2004. There were 3 premier QB's, one was left on the board when their number was up, and they picked a high strung, temperamental borderline thug TE instead of Ben.

They DID take considerable steps to upgrade their line in '05. Droughns was a weapon in the backfield. 2005 would have been a break-out year for Ben Roethlisberger had he been picked up by the Browns.

Finally, using Ben's resulting contract, based on his early success, is having it both ways: If he'd fail with the Browns, his contract would not have been 102 million, conversely, if he HAD the success (which he would have because he just THAT good), the Browns would have gladly paid him (and probably paid him more than the Steelers did).

This is a stupid argument, you lost it 20 posts ago, and I'm done with it...

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
08-11-2009, 04:19 PM
Anyone who is arguing that Ben would be anywhere NEAR as successful with the Browns is foolish.

http://slam.canoe.ca/StatsFBP/BC-FBP-LGNS-CLEVELANDROS-R.html

THIS is the roster he would have been. Even if you put Joe Montana or Otto Graham as starting QB, I doubt like all hell they would have been able to succeed. There is absolutely no one to throw the ball, no offensive line, very little in defensive help and good luck finding someone to hand the ball of to.

He would have FAILED here, absolutely FAILED. To the point where he would have been booed out of town by 2007 IMO.

Now lets compare that to this

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2004_roster.htm

A team with 8 Pro Bowlers, a great defense and one that had made the AFC title game a couple of times. Quite different than an expansion team that had little in terms of talents. Oh, did I also mention that the front office actually could function well and that the coaching staff was amongst the best in the NFL.

A QB wouldn't have fixed the Browns problems. PERIOD. They lacked depth, lacked an o-line, lacked a decent coaching staff, lacked a decent GM, lacked a RB. Everything that the Steelers had, the Browns didn't back then. Hell, they still don't have it all together.

They don't need a QB, nor did they need one back then. They need to fix those problems first before they can even think about doing those.

The Browns didn't do bad here, In fact, they at least got one Pro Bowl season out of Winslow and a trade that eventually netted us Massaquoi. If Ben had been drafted by us, I doubt the same could be said.

MasterOfPuppets
08-11-2009, 04:32 PM
Here I bust out my best girl voice in the song Paradise by the Dashboard lights by Meatloaf...

STOP RIGHT THERE.

I remember the day we drafted Ben. I had a tear on my cheek from the utter joy I felt at having finally Drafting a Fcking QB with the First Round Pick. Everything about Ben told me, he could do the job. While Rivers and Eli were doing their little dance at the top of the draft board, I was witnessing a Future Super Bowl Winner being drafted by my team. And I KNEW IT on Draft Day. My wife looked at me, sitting on the couch and said "what's the matter" and I said, "Nothing...its all going to be good now. We drafted Ben Roethlisberger out of Miami Ohio. We haven't drafted a QB in the first round since Terry Bradshaw. We are going to finally win the Super Bowl again."

So the Browns EPIC FAIL. for sure on that one. Just like the Steelers Epic Failed for not Drafting Dan Marino out of Pitt. mark malone ...:noidea:

Dino 6 Rings
08-11-2009, 04:46 PM
mark malone ...:noidea:

Exactly!

Don't kid yourself there are teams kicking themselves for NOT Drafting Ben.

SD Eli Manning QB (Great Pick, bad trade to the Giants)
Oak Robert Gallery T (good pick)
Ari Larry Fitz WR (Great Pick)
NYG Philip Rivers QB (Ok Pick, got ELI so its a great pick for them to get Eli.)
Wash Sean Taylor CB (Sad Pick)
Cle Kellen Winslow Jr TE (Ok Pick)
Det Roy Williams WR (Bad Pick that high On his 2nd team)
Atl DeAngelo Hall (Bad Pick already on his 3rd team)
Jax Reggie Williams WR (Bad Pick they still don't have receivers down in Jacksonville)
Hous Dunta Robinsone (ok Pick)
Pittsburgh Big Ben (Best Pick for Value in this Draft)

Dino 6 Rings
08-11-2009, 04:52 PM
2004 is going to be considered one of the Best QB Draft Classes of all time. To have "missed" that year is a true Epic Fail.

just like in 1983. John Elway drafted #1, Eric Dickerson #2, Jim Kelly drafted at #14, and Dan Marino Drafted at #27. Lots of teams "missed" that year too. On 2 guys.

6 Hall of Famers drafted in the 1st round in 1983.

Dino 6 Rings
08-11-2009, 04:59 PM
Oh and for the record, Malone was already on the roster, which is why we skipped on Marino, we didn't take Malone instead of Marino, we drafted Gave Rivera in the first round in 1983. He was later paralyzed in a Drunk Driving car wreck that same year.

Fire Haley
08-11-2009, 05:06 PM
Let us review....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/Mustangmuscle86/Steelers/Clowns%20Smak/BenRoethlisbergervs.jpg

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
08-11-2009, 05:27 PM
Let us review....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/Mustangmuscle86/Steelers/Clowns%20Smak/BenRoethlisbergervs.jpg

I'll take the high road and not make any reference to a certain QB's legal troubles in regards to the pic. But probably the worst possible pic. you could post at the moment.

And for the record, I like a guy like Quinn on the roster. He's smart, grew up a Browns fan and is overall a good guy. At the practice I went to he stayed after 30 minutes signing autographs for kids after everyone else had left the field. He's a good person and one that I'm proud to see on the Browns.

Granted, he could be the next Kyle Boller but I trust him as starting QB over Derek Anderson at the moment.

Fire Haley
08-11-2009, 06:47 PM
Go #3!




Cleveland Browns quarterback Brett Ratliff gets reps with first team

by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter

BEREA, Ohio ... Observations from the morning practice on Day 11 of training camp ...

• The first-team offense finally scored a touchdown in the two-minute drill. That's not even the big news. The quarterback leading the drive was Brett Ratliff, who is considered not to be in competition with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn.

MasterOfPuppets
08-11-2009, 07:41 PM
Oh and for the record, Malone was already on the roster, which is why we skipped on Marino, we didn't take Malone instead of Marino, we drafted Gave Rivera in the first round in 1983. He was later paralyzed in a Drunk Driving car wreck that same year.
We haven't drafted a QB in the first round since Terry Bradshaw. We are going to finally win the Super Bowl again."
mark malone ...1st rd...1980......:wink02:

Fire Haley
08-12-2009, 07:20 AM
Quinn a low-life sneaky cheater?


Browns | Quarterback battle remains too close to call

Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:56:41 -0700

John Clayton, of ESPN.com, reports the Cleveland Browns quarterback battle remains wide open, according to head coach Eric Mangini. Many figure QB Brady Quinn will beat out QB Derek Anderson for the starting job, but it is currently too close to call.

Anderson said his radio receiver in his helmet wasn't working Sunday, Aug. 9, and said Quinn schooled the defenders on hand signals he was sending into Anderson during the workout. That, in turn, made it harder for Anderson to work a drive filled with short passes.

revefsreleets
08-12-2009, 10:26 AM
Please, for the love of all that is holy and good, will you Browns fans take the time to CAREFULLY read what I wrote?

Ben would have sat in '04 behind Holcomb and Garcia. Ben would have sat in '04. Sat. '04. Got it?

There is no way to spin this to clean up the Browns error. It cracks me up to watch you guys diss your own team in order to win a stupid unwinnable argument.

fansince'76
08-12-2009, 10:33 AM
Quinn a low-life sneaky cheater?

Anderson said his radio receiver in his helmet wasn't working Sunday, Aug. 9, and said Quinn schooled the defenders on hand signals he was sending into Anderson during the workout. That, in turn, made it harder for Anderson to work a drive filled with short passes.

Not surprising, considering who the HC is, and in turn, who his mentor was.

Dino 6 Rings
08-12-2009, 11:24 AM
mark malone ...1st rd...1980......:wink02:

yes but more as a WR or playmaker than true QB

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1066431/1/index.htm

Edman
08-12-2009, 11:59 AM
It's amazing how Browns fans continue to rationalize taking the Soldja over Ben in 2004.

"He's overrated"
"He's a product of the system"
"We had people waiting in the wings"
"Ben's a jerk"
"We didn't need him"

The Steelers' original plan for Ben was to sit him for a year and groom him while Maddox played. Unfortunately, those plans were cut short in Baltimore. The rest is history.

No one is saying Ben would start right away for Cleveland, but at least they would have had a future at QB. Not a headcase TE who is now no longer with the team.

xfl2001fan
08-12-2009, 12:07 PM
I'm not rationalizing taking Ben over KW2. KW2 was a bigger mistake than taking Ben would have been. The Steelers had a complete team...the Browns did not.

We needed to trade down, draft some lineman to groom and build the team the right way. Taking Ben at #3 would have handicapped us (financially) even more so than taking KW2 did...because TE's dont' get paid like QBs. It would have effected everything..and in all likelihood, Ben would have just ended up getting hurt and being a first round bust. (Like KW2 is).

revefsreleets
08-12-2009, 12:10 PM
It's horribly illogical...it's on par with the whole "We should trade Timmons NOW because he's going to be a stud and we won't be able to pay him in 4 years" argument.

There are only a few of these guys that comes down the line, maybe one every 5 years, and you absolutely grab them when you can.

And the argument about lineman is out the window. They addressed that the following year through FA, and they had some decent lineman already. Bear in mind by 2007 they had one of the best lines in football, so it wasn't like they weren't addressing it all along.

xfl2001fan
08-12-2009, 12:15 PM
In 2004, we should have addressed the line...not worried about skill positions that can't get/keep the ball.

We got the better line in 07 how? We drafted Joe T and signed away Eric S from Cincy.

You say we addressed the line in 05. Maybe you think better of Andruzzi/Coleman than the rest of the NFL does...because where are those guys now?

Trading down and acquiring depth/line would have been the smart thing to do.

Even now, QB is far from our only hole/glaring need. Having a 100M QB on this team would be ridiculously stupid right now.

Fire Haley
08-12-2009, 12:24 PM
Having a 100M QB on this team would be ridiculously stupid right now.

You make no sense.
Ben's rookie salary in 2004 was for $22M.


He didn't get the big payday till 2008 after he won a bunch of playoff games and a SB.

Try again.

revefsreleets
08-12-2009, 12:34 PM
Yes, I've addressed that...it's having it both ways, but there is no mental gymnastic move to silly for these guys to make in their minds in order to continue this RIDICULOUS line of "logic".

Had Ben been drafted by the Browns, they would have been Super Bowl contenders by '07...

xfl2001fan
08-12-2009, 12:43 PM
You make no sense.
Ben's rookie salary in 2004 was for $22M.


He didn't get the big payday till 2008 after he won a bunch of playoff games and a SB.

Try again.

I explained both scenarios...drafting him then...and having him now.

Drafting him then does no good because he has nothing to grow under. We had no recievers (and didn't know that we'd be getting BE the next season.) We had a terrible offensive line...no defense worth speaking of. No running game. His salary would have been bigger had the Browns drafted him because he would have been drafted at #3 and got paid like a #3 (though more than KW2 because he's a QB and KW2 was a TE.) If we draft him (instead of KW2), Garcia get's hurt, Holcomb get's benched (he did that a lot) and then Ben plays. We ruin Ben.

Are you still with me?

For some who think we'd like to have him now...it does us no good to have him now. We have a terrible defense, not much fo a ground game and huge question marks at the WR/TE spot. His 100M Salary (now) would be a problem for us because we wouldn't have a team built around him. Instead of having a defense that keeps games close (which allows him to take chances)...he has to take on a gunslinger mentality. That won't work, though...because the only legitimately scary WR on our roster (as far as physical skills go) suffers from a bad case of the drops. We ruin Ben.

Are we all on the same page now?

Either way, Ben does this team no good.

I don't know that MANKOK is the answer to our woes...but I like how they are going about things (generally speaking.) They are bringing in a hard-nosed disciplined system. They are trying to build from the inside out (lines first). They are looking for intelligent players who won't make mistakes and won't miss tackles. They're system is predicated in creating a true AFCN team. Whether or not they can put their theories/ideologies into a real product on the football field has yet to be determined. But at least they're taking us a step in the right direction. I don't agree with everything they've done to this point...but at least they're not Butch Davis. Maybe you all remember him. He was our guy back then. He was our "GM" and our HC.

fansince'76
08-12-2009, 12:46 PM
Had Ben been drafted by the Browns, they would have been Super Bowl contenders by '07...

I'm thankful they didn't! :thumbsup:

revefsreleets
08-12-2009, 12:50 PM
Amazing...I mean, I'm literally shaking my head in utter amazement here.

THIS is what happens to a fan base that gets hit in the head by losing year after year....

Fire Haley
08-12-2009, 01:00 PM
I bet Mankok dumps both DA and Quinn next year and picks a QB #1.

ha ha

xfl2001fan
08-12-2009, 01:06 PM
So you think that two guys (Coleman/Andruzzi) were an answer? Who was Ben throwing to in 05? Edwards? How'd that year work out for him?

Coleman/Andruzzi were signed by Cleveland...but they weren't kept for long. Coleman's 2 year contract was never re-upped and Andruzzi was let go before he could finish his contract. They weren't the answer on to our line woes...because if they were, they'd still have a place on this team.

If we're allowed to use hindsight...they didn't work out...so the Browns would have had to do something different in 05 (had we drafted Ben in 04) to fix our line woes. Under the premise of no hindsight (meaning, not knowing what the Browns were going to do in 05), Ben still isn't the answer to our problems on a team riddled with more holes than a 5' x 5' slice of Baby Swiss.

Amazing...I mean, I'm literally shaking my head in utter amazement here.

THIS is what happens to a fan base that doesn't see clearly how low the Browns have sunk. THIS is what happens to a fan base that has been blessed by great ownership, coaching, scouting and drafting.

Since we're playing all hypothetical here:
Now, if the Browns had good ownership (which we don't) good scouting (which we haven't had) good coaching (that's been missing too) and good drafting (also missing from this equation) we might not be in this spot to begin with. That's what it would take for this team to draft and utilize a player with Ben's talents.

We certainly didn't have any of that in place in 04/05/06/07/08. Ownership is still terrible...so all that is left to see is whether or not we have good scouting/coaching/drafting. That takes time.

revefsreleets
08-12-2009, 01:43 PM
I'm not gonna keep doing this too much longer because it's literally retarded...

The Browns DRAFTED a QB to sit for a year the NEXT YEAR. QB WAS ON THEIR RADAR...yeah, it was Charlie Frye, and he didn't pan out, but he just wasn't NFL material...Ben was and is...big difference.

The addition of lineman isn't so much about who they were as it is about the fact that the line was addressed at all. They were working towards a solid plan.

Does Ben have a rough '05? You betcha! But he's a tough kid and a gamer, and the Browns were already working towards making some key additions that came to fruition in '07. Had BEN been there, they'd have seen more success in '06, and instead of depending on a career back-up caliber QB in '07, they'd have had a legit big time NFL leader under center who could navigate them deep into the playoffs.

Did the Browns ruin Tim Couch? Yes...but that was apples, and dese here are oranges. They wouldn't have done it twice...

It's just sad to see such a once-proud fan base so mired in the stench of failure that they develop this weird inferiority complex which clouds judgment so dramatically...

It's the little kid taking his ball and going home syndrome: "No! (stomping foot) We DON'T want your All-Pro two-time super bowl winning QB, and that's final!"

xfl2001fan
08-12-2009, 02:11 PM
I wouldn't want to see the All-Pro, two-time super bowl winning QB ruined. If I had a team around him that would keep him alive (guys who could catch, guys who could run...players who could tackle/cover on the other side of the ball) then it'd be different. We need so much more than just one QB...no matter how good he is.

What would Ben have done for us last season? An improvement on 4-12? With who catching the ball? With who running the ball? In Pittsburgh he's got Holmes/Ward who are more than solid receivers. We had a busted Edwards, a busted Stallworth, no Joe J...yeah, I'm sure he'd be great on that team.

We had some lucky breaks two seasons ago but we weren't as good as our 10-6 record would indicate. I believe we're better than teh 4-12 stinkfest we were last season...but not by a whole lot.

Give me a QB when the team is ready to have a QB. When there's a team in place.

MasterOfPuppets
08-12-2009, 02:34 PM
Amazing...I mean, I'm literally shaking my head in utter amazement here.

THIS is what happens to a fan base that gets hit in the head by losing year after year.... i don't know why the steelers drafted terry bradshaw....i mean they sucked for 40 years and had no receivers....:laughing:

Psyychoward86
08-12-2009, 05:50 PM
The media needs to talk about something else other than quarterback battles in training camp. Especially the Browns, since it probably wont matter who the QB is, they arent contenders anyways.

beSteelmyheart
08-12-2009, 06:50 PM
In the original post, nothing was mentioned about the Ratliff guy...
A certain Browns fan I know sez he might be more promising than DA or Quinn...
Any thoughts from the Browns' gallery, since there isn't much being said about him on this thread?
Brady Quinn doesn't seem like he's proven much to anybody thus far, given that he hasn't had many oportunities, he just strikes me as a sympathy pick. DA? Who knows. At least he had that one decent year.

Fire Haley
08-12-2009, 06:56 PM
In other news, Brady Quinn is having trouble beating out the worst QB in the league from last year.

Carry on.

7SteelGal43
08-12-2009, 07:03 PM
I was recently thinking about the great rivalry with the Browns. Losing to them was just so tough. We'd duke it out for the right to play in the AFC championship game, or the conference crown. Good times.

It's just not the same now. It's like playin my old high school team who went in the locker room and found the old jerseys and helmets left behind, decided to try them on, looked at each other at started yellin "LET'S WHOOP SOME STEELERS ASS"





note: those of you reading this please pray that my l'il good natured jab at our rival won't bring bad karma down on our heads. thank you.

xfl2001fan
08-13-2009, 09:32 AM
I think that most Steelers fans would enjoy seeing the rivalry again. If nothing else, it would strengthen the conference if the Browns could rise up out of the muck.

@beSteelmyheart: The rumor I hear is that whomever loses between DA/BQ could find themselves traded with Ratliff being the packup. While Mangini likes Ratliff's moxie, I don't know that he is ready yet to be an NFL starter. If he is, then great, start him. I just want to see my team make some improvements so that we can actually have a real rivalry with the Steelers...and not just a pitiful hatred of a team that has owned us for far too long.

revefsreleets
08-13-2009, 10:38 AM
Quinn does not practice well, and never has...there is no way to gauge him until at leats preseason. He needs to get 1st team reps in a game situation before he can properly be evaluated.

It's funny though that he's neck and neck with DA given that he is such a shitty practice QB.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-13-2009, 10:45 AM
Quinn does not practice well, and never has...there is no way to gauge him until at leats preseason. He needs to get 1st team reps in a game situation before he can properly be evaluated.

It's funny though that he's neck and neck with DA given that he is such a shitty practice QB.

That is because DA is just a plain shitty QB.

The Browns should go with Quinn. Hell, Mangini should choose a starter after the second preseason game at the latest. In the third game is when the starters play the most in the preseason and if he doesn't know who he wants starting by then, the Browns have no chance of a decent (8-8ish) season.

revefsreleets
08-13-2009, 10:54 AM
I just don't understand what's going on there. You CANNOT draft a QB in the first rd (especially one you gave up the WORLD for) and not start him in his THIRD year in the league.

The Browns are just retarded...

Dino 6 Rings
08-13-2009, 11:14 AM
I agree, the Browns need to step up and own their QB decision.

Chargers did it, they dumped Breese for Rivers...is Breese still a good QB, yep. Packers did it, Dumped Favre for Rogers.

You have to Make a Choice, start the guy and live or die by it for a few years. At least get the ball rolling and allow one of the guys to have the chance to be the starter for an entire season. Geesh.

Dino 6 Rings
08-13-2009, 11:16 AM
We've done this through the Kordell Years, its Not Successful. Pick One "The Man" and Go with it, allow that Guy to Succeed or Fail for at least a year or 2 then move on if you have to and accept the failure. The back and forth start this guy this week, now start this guy nonsense is Not Productive at all.

Hell the Patriots did it back in the day. Bledsoe got hurt, Brady came in and did a great job, they dumped Bledsoe (who is still the all time leader passer in Patriots History)

RoethlisBURGHer
08-13-2009, 11:26 AM
We've done this through the Kordell Years, its Not Successful. Pick One "The Man" and Go with it, allow that Guy to Succeed or Fail for at least a year or 2 then move on if you have to and accept the failure. The back and forth start this guy this week, now start this guy nonsense is Not Productive at all.

Hell the Patriots did it back in the day. Bledsoe got hurt, Brady came in and did a great job, they dumped Bledsoe (who is still the all time leader passer in Patriots History)

Mangini has said that it isn't likely the loser will be traded because a team needs depth at QB.

There is depth, then there is a split locker room. When you have a QB controversy like this, the loser needs to be traded to keep the locker room from splitting between the two (and to keep the head coach from pulling one for the other with one bad series or game).

revefsreleets
08-13-2009, 11:29 AM
Actually, there are conflicting reports on this if Mangini said he wants to keep all three...the ABJ reported that the loser of the battle WOULD most likely be traded and Ratliffe (sp?) would move up to the #2 spot.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-13-2009, 11:43 AM
Actually, there are conflicting reports on this if Mangini said he wants to keep all three...the ABJ reported that the loser of the battle WOULD most likely be traded and Ratliffe (sp?) would move up to the #2 spot.

Hmmm, well that would be best...so I expect the Browns to do the opposite.

They reported in the Cleveland Plain Dealer earlier this week or late last week that the loser would become the #2 QB.

Honestly, I don't think Mangini knows what he wants to do. He would love to keep the loser at the #2 but knows it might not be a good idea.

Either way, I don't think you get better than a late 2nd rounder for either Quinn or Anderson.

Anderson had that good season where he threw 29 TD's, but he threw 19 picks and choked at the end of the season. Then he was horrible last season (though some costly drops by Edwards didn't help any).

Quinn played, then quickly got hurt. While Quinn didn't play like garbage, he wasn't astonishing either.

Fire Haley
08-14-2009, 07:32 PM
Another Browns blunder?

Sanchez looked great for the Jets, right outta the gate.

Should never have traded away that pick.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-14-2009, 08:31 PM
Another Browns blunder?

Sanchez looked great for the Jets, right outta the gate.

Should never have traded away that pick.

Correction, they should have never traded that pick away for no value whatsoever. They could have gotten the Jets first rounder in 09 and 2010...instead they took just the 2009 and a bunch of scrubs.

revefsreleets
08-15-2009, 08:30 AM
While it IS only preseason, I thought it was almost a no-brainer that Sanchez would be the best of this bunch. Freeman could pan out after a few years of tutelage, and Stafford might have what it takes but he'll suffer by being thrust under center by the worst run team in the league.

Fire Haley
08-17-2009, 10:59 AM
uh -oh

Browns fans are getting restless

Topic: So.....which QB will we pick in 2010

it's obvious we don't have a franchise QB. So I'd like to know who you think we should pick in the top 5 next season?


http://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/582258/an/0/page/0#Post582258

MasterOfPuppets
08-17-2009, 09:22 PM
the browns should have noose night for the detroit game...DR kovorkian could be the sponcerer :laughing:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8953/noose.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/i/noose.jpg/)

Fire Haley
08-19-2009, 09:29 AM
The QB battle rages on...

Getting testy: Displeased Eric Mangini calls out the Cleveland Browns after ragged practice

Coach Eric Mangini railed against his team's continual mistakes after Tuesday's morning practice.

Here's what happened:

Near the end of the practice, Mangini set up a situation drill with 50 seconds and two timeouts left in a tie game. The object was to move the offense into position to kick a field goal or score a touchdown.

Brady Quinn led the first team and promptly tossed a weak pass over the middle for Edwards, who wasn't looking, and Brandon McDonald made an easy interception.

In came Derek Anderson and the second unit. There was an 8-yard completion to Brian Robiskie, followed by a false start, a delay of game penalty, a wasted timeout, a throwaway, a handoff to Noah Herron and a punt.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/08/video_tony_grossi_and_mary_kay_13.html

revefsreleets
08-19-2009, 11:02 AM
The QB battle rages on...

Getting testy: Displeased Eric Mangini calls out the Cleveland Browns after ragged practice

Coach Eric Mangini railed against his team's continual mistakes after Tuesday's morning practice.

Here's what happened:

Near the end of the practice, Mangini set up a situation drill with 50 seconds and two timeouts left in a tie game. The object was to move the offense into position to kick a field goal or score a touchdown.

Brady Quinn led the first team and promptly tossed a weak pass over the middle for Edwards, who wasn't looking, and Brandon McDonald made an easy interception.

In came Derek Anderson and the second unit. There was an 8-yard completion to Brian Robiskie, followed by a false start, a delay of game penalty, a wasted timeout, a throwaway, a handoff to Noah Herron and a punt.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/08/video_tony_grossi_and_mary_kay_13.html

It sure is nice starting out every year with two automatic wins, ain't it?

Fire Haley
08-21-2009, 05:42 AM
Mangeni is such a robot - a belicheater turned snitch.

The real reason Browns fans don't feel excited about this season is because Cowher broke their hearts and turned them down.